Bitcoin Forum

Nearly one month ago, on 6 June, I initiated a withdrawal of USD from my MtGox account to my Dwolla account.

This withdrawal did not occur because of issues with the Dwolla API change. Those issues were resolved by MtGox on 10 June. They still failed to send that withdrawal despite several emails from me with the details of the missing transaction. After the hack they set up their new support desk system. I created a ticket explaining the issue, which was closed with no communication or action. I created a follow-up ticket, asking if the withdrawal was on its way. That ticket was also closed with no communication or action.

I have still not received the withdrawal. MtGox has effectively stolen my money. I sold BTC for USD, which MtGox has drained from my account and kept. How do I proceed if they just keep closing my tickets?

IRC magicaltux (not sure if thasts the correct spelling)

I'm getting the same thing from them.  And I'm getting sick of their shit.

They close my tickets without even letting me know anything.  I'm still missing BTC that I deposited the day of the crash.  They have my BTC as I can see the transaction in blockexplorer.  I've given them all the information they need to know but they still aren't addressing my problem.  I opened a ticket as soon as I was allowed to log in over a week ago and saw that they weren't there.  They instead just close my tickets.  WTF?

This is a responsible company?  This is how you treat customers?  This is complete bullshit.

Open a ticket again. MtGox's team is really freakishly small and the volume of tickets is extremely high, so you need a lot of patience.

Small team or not, freakishly busy or not, the "Oh, OK, we have more tickets than we want, so we're going to ignore them and delete them all, close them with no response, and if it's really important, they'll submit another one, but of course we'll do the same thing" is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

I shouldn't have to hunt down someone all over the Internet to find out WTF is going on.  I'm addressing my problem through their website, you know where the business is.  It's not getting me anywhere.  And they aren't conducting it in a professional manner at all.  You know, getting in touch with your customers instead of your customers having to hunt you down all over the Internet.

I could only imagine how pissed the general public would be if they had to IRC every single company they are having issues with.  It's time to wake up MTGox.  You are dealing in millions of dollars of other people's money.  It's time you hired a staff that is capable of dealing with issues and support.

Lol, open another support ticket from the 10 I've opened and they've closed every fucking time?  Sorry not good enough.

I've been given the silent run-around for weeks as well. They have several hundred USD of my money, and apparently are ignoring dozens.

Wow. Sounds like a lot of people are in the same boat.

This is very, very confusing. The amount of time it takes to close a dozen tickets over several weeks is way longer than it would take to just look up my transaction, initiate my withdrawal, and be finished. They're either completely incompetent or determined to steal my money. If this isn't resolved within another 2 weeks (at which point it will be 6 weeks since I tried to withdraw) I'll start investigating the possibilities for legal action.

File a complaint with the FBI and ask them to pursue an injuction preventing Dwolla from doing transactions with MtGox. Provide the FBI report you filed to Dwolla, this will add validity to your claims. If enough people complain to Dwolla they will stop doing business with MtGox as they dont want to be seen as aiding fraud. Dwolla's business model is 'to protect you from fraud'. This might not be the ideal way of handling the issue but it will protect others form losses and will stop this fraud that apparently MtGox is engauging in. Dont tell MtGox that you are or have filed a report with the FBI as this will only cause communications with MtGox to be impeded.

If all those affected by MtGox and the inability to recieve their funds after many atempts complain to Dwolla they just might stop sending money to MtGox until they start returning money. If MtGox hits you in the pocketbook hit them in their pocketbook. MtGox might be in Japan but Dwolla is in the USA and that is/should be your point of attack.

Stopping the flow of money to MtGox will cause them to refocus.

Contact the Japan Financial Services Agency. (http://www.fsa.go.jp)

    Financial Services Agency
    The Central Common Government Offices No. 7,
    3-2-1 Kasumigaseki, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo, 100-8967 Japan


    foreignpr@fsa.go.jp

Whether they like it or not, Mt. Gox is in a regulated industry, and they have some responsibilities they can't escape.  Like paying out depositors' money on demand.

A useful place to start might be a local "Invest Japan" office. 

http://www.jetro.go.jp/en/invest/

The Japanese government's Japan External Trade Organization has offices in most major countries devoted to encouraging people to invest in Japan. Their job is to guide people through Japanese government bureaucracy.  They might be helpful for finding out who to talk to at the FSA.

 Dont redirect your anger to me with a snide response.

 The OP (who is the one this is directed towards btw) asked How do I proceed when MtGox refuses to communicate? and this is the quickest/best solution considering it is regarding closing tickets through mt. gox without reply

LOL.  Whoosh.

He was indeed snide, but the real question, honestly, is why do people keep defending Mt.Gox for acting dishonestly? And, yeah, it's dishonest to close a legitimate ticket without any response or action whatsoever. They have an obligation to provide support for their service. If they're not going to actually answer tickets they should remove the ticket system from their site: at least then potential customers know they're out in the cold if they have issues...

I looked at the Dwolla web site. They have a dispute resolution process. Contact them via phone 1.515.280.1000 or email @ http://help.dwolla.com/customer/portal/emails/new .. I hope this helps.

Bingo.

Oh, you forgot blame the victim.  That's one that's used here a lot as well.

 Personally - My post was not to defend in any way, but simply offer the best/quickest solution to the problem. I agree fully with your post (and as a customer hope I never experience this), but in the interim I would be on IRC and have an answer ASAP, and certainly would not be snide towards people trying to help the situation

What IRC channel does magicaltux hang out in?

Edit: Can't find him in general bitcoin discussion channel or the MtGox tracker channel

You need to wait there all day for him to come on then.

How do you know they are regulated? Where is their license number? Because as far I know they are not regulated, but are ment to be regulated since it is as you say, a regulated business. Correct me if I Am wrong.

 I think its now 5-6 am where he is, just check a few times during the day (I would guess he will login in the next few hours)

Don't trust exchanges, they are essentially centralizing bitcoin, use http://btcnearme.com/ and trade hard cash for BTC, and you wont get charged BS fees as well, that goes for trade hill too.

I don't think asking regulators to fix mess bodes well for bitcoiners. It may be the quick-fix solution but it will be damaging in the long term.

There's such a thing as regulatory capture and Japan is famous for it. I believe they have a term called Amakudari, which means "descent from heaven" for politicians that get crushy job in the companies that they used to regulate. That means corruptions wholesale.

It is easy to go after people after being very furious, but it is hard to be cautious about effects of your actions that could have a vast effects on others(and you) in the future.

In my case, if I have lot of money in MtGox, I would try to get it for a long time. Then forget it and take my loss. If I do get my money, I might as well leave MtGox and moves on to other exchanges and decentralize my accounts to the various exchanges and write a long letter to people as to why they should switch their asses to other exchanges. This will hopefully get their asses to other exchanges.

Don't forget that the biggest loser in the exchange crisis is MtGox and the biggest winners are the other exchanges. Inflicting loss for extremely poor service will discipline MtGox just as the security issue discipline MtGox.(With the extreme password security for example)

Last time I checked, taking deposits and not returning them on demand may be a crime (depending on a number of qualifying factors such as country, industry, relevant contracts or lack of it, potentially fraudulent statements and actions etc...).

There is nothing wrong in asking authorities to pursue criminals even if the (potential) crime is not proven yet, apparently there are victims and this is enough.

If this means that a bunch of innocent speculators won't be able to speculate for a while, so be it. It is not victim's fault, is it?

Lol.  How hypocritical is this?

It's a crime.  I repeat a crime to steal money or assets, virtual or not. 

"Think of the others." lol.  What a bunch of fucking bullshit.  You are only thinking of yourself with your own post.

And MTGox is not the biggest loser.  They are still the largest exchange.

Closing valid support tickets with the proper information with proof they have my money with no intention of contacting me is THEFT as far as I'm concerned.

I have a right to report if if I'd like.  I'm not going to just sit back and allow them to fuck me.  I don't know who would.  Except for maybe you.

This is worrying me...
MtGox should know it only exists because of Bitcoin and this forum.
If he screws up over here for too long, he can pack up his bags and leave the business...

Not if their business strategy turns out to be "take the money and run".

If that is their strategy, they could have done this 2 weeks ago...

I think there is another big problem: they are missing history of some trading and have problems dealing with that... It's no excuse but I guess they are unable to verify a claim, so they hope by closing the tickets and ignoring it, the problem will dissolve...

They are certainly the biggest loser if you defined by how much business they lost and not who is the biggest guy out there.


There exists individuals who fear authorities more than thieves. Thieves are scroundels. Authorities that can hide behind legitimacy to cloak criminal acts are scarier.

Bitcoin Weekly would not sue people for plagiarizing and taken credit for our works, ever. We despise copyright laws more than we despise individual scroundels.

I don't give a shit what you would do.  This is not you.

This is dozens of people from the looks of it.  Now stop only thinking of yourself and sticking up for thieves.  It's not swaying anyone.  We've had enough of their shit.

Who say I am defending the thieves? Your actions our impact me.

You want to fuck somebody who fuck you because he deserves it. Maybe he does deserve it, but you or your loved ones are not dead. Your intelligence is still there. Your life is still the same except some loss of money.

Your action will cause collateral damage. You bring in the authorities, they will regulate everything to shit and we get no say in how we run the bitcoin economy.

They have guns, taxing power, and the ability to coerce us at will. These are the same authorities who will pursue somebody for consuming marijuana and LSD despite not being a danger to people at all. These are the same authorities who fucked up 9/11 and play security theaters in airport. They are incompetent and dangerous.

If you sue somebody in this community, I don't want to do any fucking business with you. (That reminds me not to do business with mtgox or tradehill as they will give information to authorities to pursue silk road users)

I don't care.  If you are that concerned about it.  How about a post on your publication asking MTGox what the deal is with not answering and closing valid support claims?

I'm not afraid of the Government.  I have nothing to hide.  Maybe you do.  I don't really care.  I'm not getting robbed just so you can feel "safe".  MTGox is doing this.  Not me.  How about putting a little pressure on them?  You know, instead of blaming the victims?

Are you gay? Do you have a weird sexual fetish? Do you read comics with naked men and women doing icky things.

There are thousand of things that are perfectly legit to hide simply because they are considered icky by other human beings. Simply because some would love a good gay-bashing. Simply because your ex-husband is out to get you. Simply because you don't want others to see you masturbating to 4chan posts.


I am not blaming the victims. As I repeatedly suggest, as soon as you get your money out of there, don't do any more business with them.

It is a type of retaliation, although not perfectly satisfactory, that doesn't involves others that have nothing to do with you.

Wow.  So that's your response.  You mock me and then go into your weird sexual fetishes.  Wow.  Just Wow.

And no, I'm not giving this up.  Sorry.

I am not gay and I am not mocking you.

In the future, you may have something to hide that's perfectly legit. Maybe you are Jewish and some Nazi are looking for you.

Are you sure you want to give up that right for a simple revenge?


Do you care about anybody else, at all? Are you blinded by your own suffering that you forget to consider how others might be impacted?

Kiba, take your childish ranting elsewhere.

There are people with legitimate grievances against MtGox. Whatever your political ideology is, it's a simple fact that there are sovereign powers who can enforce contracts. You might not like those powers, and I might not either, but that's who's in charge and we can't just pretend otherwise.

I very much want to avoid going to the authorities, and I expect MtGox will resolve my issue before that becomes neccessary.

Then direct your blame at Mt.Gox for putting you at "risk", instead of people whos legal rights Mt.Gox violated, who now may wish to exercise their legal rights of recourse.

The ridiculosity of all of this is unsurpassed.

Solution: Quit using GOX.   ::)

With all due respect, I am simply defending my own interest. I have not insulted anybody and I want people to consider others' interest. The fact that I am not anonymous made me strongly interested in persuading complainers to take a different course of actions.


If you wish, you can do so and take actions...but once that happens, the consequence will be boycott by me, as much as possible. Of course, mine is simply a small magazine so you don't care.

I will defend my interest.

Listen, I'm not an early adopter.  I don't have thousands of coins I'm sitting on.  I invested a week to soon obviously.  

I also don't adhere to the same politics as you are trying to convey.  I do believe some government intervention is needed.  And in the case of theft.  Yes, yes, I do.

So if you are wanting this currency to become well adopted.  Sooner or later there will have to be some form of regulation.  Oh, that dirty word.  It's just the way it is or it's NEVER going to succeed.  You can't see that?  Otherwise there isn't any recourse for anything.

If you and everyone want to treat this a currency there are laws that also come along to protect people in cases such as this.



It's not about revenge.  It's about getting my money back.  Jesus.  And my information is already all over the Internet thanks to that hack.  You don't think the Feds have had a look see at the list of MTGox users?  Especially since they've already shown interest in it.  You are fooling yourself if you think not.  I'm fairly easy to find after my email and username.  So there really isn't much else to give up.  That's already been done.  

I want my money back.  It's that simple.  And no, I'm not giving this up.

I wish to hold back regulations as much as possible so that Bitcoin Weekly will be able to thrive without me, without the system intruding on Bitcoin Weekly's ability to output economically beneficial work. Now that I realize that is futile and that Bitcoin Weekly would needs to grow up quickly to be able to defend itself.

The politics are not styles, but substance.
 

Revenge or "want your money back", whatever. Consideration of harms to others seem to not be priority for you.

Our mindset is obviously different. I feel I am responsible for my own money and even the money I stored on other people's.

What money I protect, I have the right to them. If I don't try to protect my money, than it is my fault because I didn't do anything. That's not to say it is not the fault of the criminal who stole my money. It is also their fault as they have harmed me.

I am responsible for my own defense, for providing my own food, for navigating my life. Nobody in the world have an obligation to fix things when it is wrong. People help me, and they may do it out of love, out of obligation, or reciprocation, or whatever reasons but they are not responsible for anything.

I have an obligation to do that all for myself.

You expect certain rights to be provided for you, simply because you are the victim.

Me? I gottach work for my own justice. If somebody help me, that's fine and dandy, and I want to make sure that my actions for justice doesn't harm other people.

And so today I write to defend my interest.

That's how it is. A different perspective.

Good luck with getting your money back.