Bitcoin Forum

The story about how Bitstamp steals customer’s money..

Since 2014 I had been trading at the Bitstamp. The account has been verified for several years. For the recent time, every month turnover exceeded a quarter million $, at the time this story occurred, my deposit on the exchange was about $ 40,000. The Bitstamp seemed to me to be a serious organisation, which also had a license for its activities in Europe, so I chose it and I knew that it would not fail. How could I been wrong then.

It all started with the fact that on November 27, its representative TOMAŽ R. contacted me with standard KYC questions, as I have nothing to hide, I do not sponsor terrorists (I think now that if I sponsored, I would not be asked any questions at all), but my money is clean (most of them, by the way, it was earned on their own exchange currencies, which they saw), I answered all his questions, but every day the questions were become more and more to me.

They demanded documents, explanations on which addresses, when and why I transferred the assets that I bought legally, then why do I go to their stock exchange constantly from a country other than my residence, etc. The questions were too much, the answers were too much!

Almost every day, when I went into the exchange currencies, I saw new questions in his ticket. And again, I patiently answered them, including the most absurd questions.
For unexplained reasons, during the period from November 27 to December 27, Bitstamp completely blocked the withdrawal of my funds from the system, but after my legitimate questions about the reason of these locks removed them. At the end of December, I completely disconnected the withdrawal of funds and even the possibility of trading. So I not only began to lose money, because of the disconnection of trade, also my deposit was completely blocked.

On the 27th of December at 10:04 (UTC, MSK + 3) I created a ticket # 315624 where I asked a question - what the reason  of the withdrawal of funds and trading on my account was blocked several times. And I explained that if they continue such "partnership relations" with me, I will have to give up their services.

After 5 hours waiting, when I checked the created ticket, I have noticed that the next to the ID of my account, the prefix "_deleted" appeared. Then I was seriously worried about my money, which I trusted my "partners". Then I tried to enter the exchange currencies from another browser without closing the active window. When they told me that the ID or the password is not correct, the alarm increased, because on that day I wanted to withdraw some of the earned money for organising the New Year and buying presents to my relatives.

I could still be for a while in their system, because my session was not completed. I took advantage of this and began to save everything that could be of any value. After that, at 16:58 (UTC, MSK + 3), I created a ticket # 316764, where I asked to explain, why I have an account with all resources marked as "remote"?

I did not receive a response nor on that day, nor on the next, nor until now. The next day when the session was over, I could no longer enter the exchange currencies. Also I could not recover the password for the mail. The system promised to send it, that the account with such mail exists. Apparently, taking my money, they no longer considered me like their client. Hours of waiting some mail, and nothing brought. I did not leave attempts to contact the company further. First I wrote them to support@bitstamp.net from the contact mail (ticket SUPPORT-45685). In the letter I asked just one question - Why was the account with my ID  deleted? Today, December 30, none of my many requests for such a serious problem,  received no answers. Next, I tried to contact the company by phone in London, listed on their website at +44 20 8133 5474. I called them from 5 different countries (USA, European and Russia), for all calls, the answering machine answered that the call was not available. It’s supporting of this company.

A few of my colleagues from Russia (I can not say about other countries) working with Bitstamp are faced with the same problems, only their accounts are not removed yet. If you have big resources there, I would recommend you that they be withdrawn from there, until this situation is resolved. It’s dangerous for your money.

The result. New Years mood is failed. Trust in Bitstamp is destroyed. Every day I lose money, because I can not trade my deposit. Reflecting on the situation, I can also assume a "fantastic story" when a person wishing to unlock operations on my account, in the  eve of New Year's corporate bluntly misses the button and presses "delete". But no matter how it is, it does not release from responsibility and consequences.

If it’s necessary I can provide all the evidence of correspondence and other circumstances, but I think the information will be more than enough. As the situation develops I will also expound it here. I think that representatives of the company will try to "move out". But the best solution for them is to apologise and return stolen funds at a minimum!

Topic on the Russian-language resource Bits.media: https://forum.bits.media/index.php?/topic/63200-%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8E%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B6%D0%B0-bitstamp-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0-%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8/ (https://forum.bits.media/index.php?/topic/63200-%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8E%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%B6%D0%B0-bitstamp-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0-%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8/)

Screenshot of the first ticket from Bitstamp: https://forum.bits.media/uploads/monthly_2017_12/5a47b8b298c06_2017-12-3018_56_38.thumb.png.928623f3dbcb17263c82b3ff3042c074.png

UPD1 If you are in a similar situation, watch this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2679324.msg27676241#msg27676241

Topic of Russian Thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2679347

On the resource Reddit, the move detection of several victims:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/7nqq5u/bitcoin_litecoin_and_ripple_stuck_in_bitstamp_for/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/7nqbxs/bitstampdomen_please_help_me_out_man_still/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/7nr08x/unable_to_withdraw/

My thread on Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/7nrlab/employees_of_the_company_are_involved_in_theft_of/

Shocking. Bitstamp dare to comment? Let's get this to the media to bring people's attention to this situation. Make sure you upvote on reddit. OP, you posted this on Twitter?

I have not written in Twitter yet. Now, I plan to contact the CEO of Bitstamp. If possible, help with the dissemination of information

"use an exchange", the fucking shills said...

Men, you carefully read the text? Where is written "use"? I wrote do NOT use the exchange, until the solution of these facts of stealing customer money from the staff

Right, we used an exchange like the fucking "use an exchange" shills said we should do, and we got your funds stolen because of it.

Hello. We have responded to your email and provided a full explanation of your account status. The reason for the delay in responding is because of the increased demand we are currently witnessing.  We have requested your account details in order to send your funds immediately, and are awaiting your response.

So you admiting everything what is described here is true? Shocking.

Why his account has been closed in the first place?

Bitstamp-Domen You deign to respond to my ticket from December 13 SUPPORT-31882. Since December 13, there are no answers, the account is terminated, money is not returned. When will the refund be made? Since November 23, 2017 I do not have my money. Today is January 3, 2018. 2killo Update your topic

I am waiting for validation 1.5 month in Bitstamp. I sended all documents identity card or other documents...I woried if they accept my validation that will be my orders one month sell or buy. I confused.

 :o It would be great if we can read that "full explanation", because men, this is serious... closing an account that way is the worst way to proceed. I think i'm moving out from bitstamp for a while...

In my case, the explanation was this:

"After careful consideration, Bitstamp decided to terminate Your access to Your Account in accordance with our Terms of Use. Your account will be terminated from the date of this notice having been received by you. This notice shall be treated as having been served upon completion of the transmission of this email.

The decision to terminate your Account has been reached following a close examination of your recent account activity and information which you have provided. It is our view that any continuation of our relationship would not be appropriate at this time due to internal policies.

Your account balance will be returned to the bank account specified in your last bank withdrawal request, costs withheld.

For more information, see our Terms of Use: https://www.bitstamp.net/terms-of-use/

Best regards,
Bitstamp Team"

I do not know their internal policy and I do not understand how I can violate their rules if I come to change buy or sell coins.

Unfortunately these decisions they make are almost always not eligible for appeal. The after careful consideration phrase usually implies they did a serious analysis of your fiat and crypto transactions and decided there is something they don't agree with. Perhaps excessive inward and outward movements which might suggest structured transactions. A structured transaction is a suspicious series of transfers which a bank (in this case Bitstamp) suspects might be related to money laundering.

As you can see, they asked a lot of questions. These are usually questions asked when money laundering or an AML policy violation is suspected.

If you suspect this was an unfair decision, you can escalate the matter by writing to the Luxembourg financial regulatory authorities or the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier. The website is http://www.cssf.lu/en/

I suggest you continue trying to contact Bitstamp first and let them know that you will advance the matter to the CSSF if they do not allow you access to your funds. Try contacting them on their Facebook and Twitter pages. You should also PM their representative here and inform them about your intention to escalate the matter to the CSSF for arbitration or clarification.

If they have a solid case against you (for example, if there is indeed a strong suspicion of money laundering after they carefully studied your account's fiat movements) then they have a right and even an obligation to close and sanction your account (which is what the account closure is). The money you have on that account, if any, must be explained. Will they return it or not? If they are not returning it, then it's probably because they suspect your account was used to commit money laundering.

Exchanges will also close accounts if assets within that account are, after considering a balance of probabilities, difficult to ascertain as truly yours and yours alone. When money laundering is suspected, they usually consider the possibility of third parties being the true owners of some or all of the funds. 

Bitstamp is not a scam exchange. They have proper audit and accountability systems in place.

This guy is full of opinions, always sticks his 2 useless cents without having a clue on the subject!

Bitstamp can not refuse the money. In any financial business, there are terms of refund after closure of accounts. Without a court decision, no one can withhold other people's money. If there is an investigation by the police, then the client whose account is closed should be notified that a case has been opened against him. They can send data to the police, but MUST return the money as soon as possible. If the police conduct a covert investigation on suspicion of illegal activities, the police will not notify and retain money. All that happens is the Beatstamp team's self-activity. As there is a presumption of innocence, before we prove that someone is committing illegal operations, we need to check the investigation and prove the guilt - this is the responsibility of the police. The police are monitoring to the last and will never tell you about it and will not close your account, because the police will collect the dossier. There are people who wait in the spring and autumn of 2017 for a refund of money after the closure of accounts and something the police has not yet summoned them for questioning and has not proven illegal activities.

“Sticking my 2 useless cents” is far better than a criminal like you looking for opportunities to defraud people of their coins. You should grow up and find a decent paying job, instead of feeding yourself with food paid for with stolen coins.

But of course one can’t expect incorrigible criminals to earn honorably and honestly. Especially habitual scammers like you who offer to build shady exchanges overnight and sell them to unsuspecting buyers sans escrow protection!

They finally responded to the last ticket I created. But only after this hype began. Again, the removal of customer accounts, in many countries can be considered by the court as fraud.
Will I get back my money, or not, I'll keep you posted, here. At the moment, for more than a week now, I'm still, I'm left without my money.

On this question, you no one will answer. Because, he does not exist.

Bitstamp is known for coming up with a detailed questionaire once you try to withdraw money.

Has anyone in the past questioned on which legal basis this happens? Has anyone studied the ToS if they're allowed to do that?

Let this be a warning for anyone, who thinks about exchanging their fiat or coins on Bitstamp. You WILL be asked to strip down naked and answer ANYTHING they come up with. And don't you dare not beeing able to prove everything. Your withdrawal will be denied, they forcibly exchange your fiat back, making a nice profit and waving goodbye.

I could see a hater from a mile away. Your words carry ZERO weight, you remind me of hyena from the Lion king movie. Blah, blah blah

10 days have passed. Money is not returned.

11 days without my money..

Bitstamp, any response on that?

The answer came today on an email:

"Support agent commented:

kindly be informed that the transfer has been finalized on our end on 18/12/2017 and funds sent to your bank account, costs withheld. In case you have not yet received the funds, let us know and we will assist you further.

 

Should you require additional assistance, please feel free to reach out again."

Money has not yet come to my bank, December 26 was in the bank with the manager looking for, nothing happened. Today there is no money in my  bank account.  What you want then think. Lies and lies chases.

A week after the account was deleted, they replied that they had deleted my account, after many years of work, on "internal policies". They promised to refund my money to my bank account. While money is not returned.

So Bitstamp can really close accounts & not bother explaining why?

What when you still have crypto in it, they sell behind your back & refund fiat?


God, if we can't even trust an european exchange now... where else to go?

Make your exchange, or use other exchanges.

I started with Kraken (horrible), I also use Bitfinex & Bittrex. While I have had zero problem with these 2 so far, they are asian, provide leverage/margin, and work on tethers - so I wouldn't trust them.
I *thought* it was safer to have "real" eur/usd's on Bitstamp, rather than tethers on Bitfinex/trex (crypto isn't a problem, I can move them to private wallets). I hope the future won't prove me wrong.

The most reliable is your bank and wallet

obviously.. but bank-to-exchange takes 3 working days (which usually means 5 days) (or, in the case of bitstamp, 1 month apparently), not an option.

It's like that.
We need to do our stock exchange, besides, we have everything for this

+1!

By an amount of this money, I would immediately go to my lawyer and would sue Bitstamp to the ground. Thanks for your thread. I will avoid Bitstamp and look for other LEGIT exchanges. Do they have a Phonenumber to call?

I still can not believe, what happened SUCH to me with their company. They have a phone listed on the site. But all this is a fake. I tried to call them from 5 different countries, the answering machine answers calls, saying that the call is not available.

You should call your lawyer. Such a piggish must not be! Sue the company or let your lawyer write a letter. It has to be something official.

Maybe I missed it, but did you call your lawyer?
If not, you should do it immediately. Waiting further does not seem to bring anything. Or you can visit them yourself and talk to them from face to face.

I talked to my lawyer. He said that this scheme is very similar to financial fraud. In Europe, as in America, this is a serious offensive. I will send them an official pre-trial letter next week, if my funds are not returned to me.
As for a real meeting with them, they are hiding from their clients in Slovenia, and do not want to meet with us. But this can not be avoided if nothing changes.

Bitstamp scam???

I still have money, have not been refunded

Where is my refund? SUPPORT-31882
I'll write a report to the police! from November 23 where is the money? To whom did you send them on December 18? It's not exactly me!

I've seen a lot so far and this is probably the worst in line with Mt. Gox. Everything I'm going to say is based on the hundreds of stories of people from the last few weeks, so my opinion is biased, keep that in mind.

If I were you, I would take a good law firm. Are you based in Russia? If so, your options are limited and it will take a considerable amount of time, energy and money to get your money back, that is, if they don't declare bankruptcy. Then you also need to have good contacts in Europe with a specialized law firm and various financial institutions (including the ombudsman in Luxembourg), preferably you also have important connections in your family that work in the higher echelons of power (business, government, eu, un, etc.). From all the stories I've read about Bitstamp the last 3 weeks, I've got a feeling their are illiquid (maybe because of theft without disclosing to their clients, I cannot proof this of course).

If you're based on Europe, you have good options and more luck. You definitely should go to your local lawyer and contact ECC (they have a whole bunch of specialized lawyers) and the ombudsman immediately and start an investigation in to Bitstamp, not only for your case (with full compensation including for all lead damages), but a full reassessment of the company. The police will do nothing for you, the ombudsman most likely can't do anything as well and ECC only acts as an intermediate between you and Bitstamp and if they refuse to work with them, they will assist you in court. For all the things I've read, I don't think they can even hold their money transmitter (bank) license and are residing in gray/black areas of European law. Only in the USA, a bank licensed company can freeze an account for 365 days, but NOT in Europe. I think Slovenia has an extradition treaty with Russia, but don't quote me on that. I'm sorry I can't help you further, the lawyers in my family and friends deal with national crime and small private cases and not such cases as finances abroad.

If you keep believing promises and keep waiting and waiting, one day you will never get your money back. You should act NOW and I'm speaking from experiences having dealt with large corporations (also abroad, but I'm in Europe dealing with companies in other another European country), where a resolution can take years. If you sit on your ass, it will work against you when you go to court where the offender's negligence will be turned against you as you being negligence as a defence.

Good luck, I hope you get your money back. You have earned those legit, right? You said from the exchange, is it from the same exchange (profits made IN Bitstamp)? If so, it really sounds like an exit scam via bankruptcy or a (fabricated) story of a hack, that is, worst case scenario, although everything sounds fishy, I might be wrong about Bitstamp (I don't have experience with them, but I'm disappointed by having sent all id documents to them).

I've tried to contact them and don't get any response at all as well and I don't buy that they are busy, the phone keeps ringing, so obviously nobody is picking it up.

As for daytrading for a living (the need to put money out each week (for the fool inside this thread who implies people who pull out fiat each week are criminals, because of structuring), you are professional trader, you should trade CFDs or options with your forex broker that has your money 100% insured. So only Kraken and GDAX are left over for the crypto exchanges (licensed money transmitters).

Thank you for sharing and again, good luck.

Read this as well, some important information by a fellow victim @ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/7pwi77/how_i_did_to_get_answers_from_bitstamp
I don't know if you have recorded everything before they closed your account?

Edit:
I just read their proof of reserves from their website and it's dating from may 2014 (where is the fiat reserve, equity and liquidity balance sheet?). The gut feelings I have line up perfectly what I suspect it to be. I personally feel this will end up very badly and an old meme of 3 years ago regarding Bitstamp going Mt. Gox might have been right after all... we'll see.

Is there any representative of Bitstamp here on the forums? Please update everyone, including all (potential) clients about this situation and your liquidity. When was the last time you were audited?

Does the USA charge an account for 365 days without a written notice? No, as you see, no one answers from Bitstamp. They just closed my account and I do not have access to it since December 13, 2017. I have not got the money from November 23, 2017. January 8, I received a letter to the email from Bitstamp to return the money to my bank, contacted the bank, the bank did not receive anything and requested a SWIFT message, but Bitstamp again did not answer anything since January 8 . The reason for closing the account and withholding money is not reported, only that the account is closed for reasons of internal policy. As you know, this is full of shit. Why report back if they did not? This is clearly a bad story. It suggests that the exchange lost control in the financial department and customer support services. I did not see the worst delusions in my life from the financial institution. Maybe they have problems, I think people should be afraid of using the exchange. GDAX does not serve customers from Russia as I understood.

Located in the USA, they can freeze accounts for up to 365 days when they are a bank licensed company. Paypal does it all the time, because of draconian US law to supposedly fight terrorism and criminals that are hiding in every bush on every corner in that nation, right? However, Bitstamp is headquartered in London, no? If so, they cannot freeze/lock accounts regarding CURRENCY units within them without prior notice in the EU as far as I know. Such decisions need to be ruled by a judge in court with an order, hence all the consumer protection laws from the EU. There is a logical and ethical proven proverb: who claims proves. What is happening now is that they're turning the tables around (as the usa did with the patriot act), where everybody is a suspect (read: criminal) until proven innocent. Black is white and white is black, it's totally criminal in my view.

However, they're in their full right to terminate the contract/service with you at any time according to their own ToS, BUT, we're talking about accounts that hold money and they must deposit it within a certain time frame by law (I think within 2 weeks for consumers/private clients).

As I've said, I think Bitstamp is insolvent, that's why they keep stalling time. As you know, the more time passes, the more likely it is to never get your money back, because the little man (you) is at the bottom of the pyramid, that's why you need to act NOW. And I know this, because I've lost several times money on companies who filed bankruptcy (the bank always is the first one to get money back, then share holders up to the consumer/client - you'll know when you've dealt with this before with a curator) and the little man will get little and most of the time nothing back. The deposits can be used to recoup losses or a withdrawal for somebody else, until it all collapses, that's why you need to act now to get in queue before a potential bankruptcy can be pulled. Hence I urgently ask if anybody knows when Bitstamp is audited the last time.

It's absolutely clear they are stalling time (whether it's legit or not, it doesn't matter) and without compensation for your losses due to instant closure of your account up to the time you received your money minus permitted time (days) by law, you could sue them if you're from Europe and most likely international. I think it's wasted time to speculate or wait, imho.

Good luck and keep us informed, thank you.

EDIT:
You know what to do, right? I've pointed it out plus gave a reference to a post what another one on reddit did. If I were in your shoes, I would have contacted friends and family who know more about the subject and a law firm who deals with this particular issue, financial ombudsman in Luxembourg, ECC and other institutions in Europe, as it's very clear Bitstamp is not willing or able to resolve this in a 1-to-1 fashion (in an untimely matter is also seen as unwilling, as both result in a resolution not being solved by just means). I would ask the lawyer to prepare to make the paperwork in order with a debt collection agency where Bitstamp is located. If they don't handle it with them, you can eventually take them to court by summoning them as a 2nd major suing option. This would have been the recommended way if you were using Bitstamp as a corporate entity anyway. The institutional way (Europe - voluntary way - I should have noted, you'll be only helped if you are a private entity) will take many months initially, that's why your 2nd option is the lawyer/court (by force) way. It's your choice, but I don't think you have more than a year to wait in such cases as this via the voluntary way, as I've seen this several times before as I've said.

It might have something to do with: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1330261.0

I understand you. I will write again at the CSSF in Luxembourg. I wrote there in December and they answered that they were regulating Bitmamp SA Luxembourg. In any case, it is necessary to point out to the facts that someone has controlled and checked their activities.
Tnx!

I know that. In 2016, I had a break with Bitstamp, after stealing the coins from them. Then sent to the e-mail that users from Russia can work with the exchange. In the spring of 2017, before I resumed my work with Bitstamp, I approached the question of what I got the answer for - we are working, there are no problems. I do not think that the problem is this.

if they're having issues with the russian government, I honestly don't think that they're going to openly disclose it. Frankly, I would never rely on what customer support has to say, after all its the bottom of the food chain.  they would be the last to know about anything  / any pending deals with the government. Support reps are live robots, they good for reading between the lines and thats it! I personally never rely on anything that support reps has to say. At the end of the day its your word against his... what you gonna do when things turn around not in your favor?... go out and look for him:)

@kiss moon

You're welcome!

It's not only Russia guys. I got friends in Germany, Netherlands and France and they're having the same problems as you guys have mentioned started from early December 2017, but for smaller amounts around €5k - €10k.

I did some more digging and indeed Bitstamp is regulated by Luxembourg Financial Industry Supervisory Commission CSSF. That does not mean you will receive compensation in case they go bankrupt or are hacked, they can decide if they want to do that out of goodwill, they are not obligated to do so. You did the right thing by writing CSSF if Bitstamp does not want to work this out with you. I'm over 90% sure the UK's ombudsman (FOS) cannot help you at all, as I wrote earlier. That leaves you with CSSF, ECC (private/consumer only) and law firms.

I don't think the other two licensed crypto exchanges offer you any compensation insurance as well, hence most professional traders trade on wall street or in the uk as being part of uk's FSCS (50K GBP insurance).

Good luck!

Which exchange, in your opinion, is registered with FSCS? I don't know about any.

Bitstamp: List of Victim - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2755922

We really need more decentralized exchanges but it should be something competitive too like these top crypto exchanges.

https://s17.postimg.org/p72m6ikvj/cssf.png - Answer from CSSF  

Are anybody besides russian citizens facing the same?

Yes, in the LoV (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2755922), there were more than half of not Russian

There are no crypto exchanges registered with FSCS, that's the problem. Only top forex brokers located in the UK, but you need to check that to be sure and have it black on white in paper.

I don't think Bistamp is liquid to handle huge amounts of withdrawals and probably not even solvent to do so. That's my opinion based on what has and still is going on and basic math + common sense.
Let's say, in theorem, that Bitstamp or any other crypto exchange has users that have 50% of Bitcoins mined and 50% - 1 are bought for $1. Now the last guy buys the bitcoin for $20k. The market cap of bitcoin rises to supply * last traded price. Let's say, supply of 17 million bitcoins and let's assume Bitstamp had a monopoly where all users will go to buy/sell bitcoin and have their entire account equity (deposits) used.
To use some simple arithmetic:
Bitstamp client deposits: 17m * 0.5 * $1 + 1 * $20k = $8.5 million + $20k = $8,520,000 ($8.52m)
Market cap from: 17m * $1 = $17m, to: 17m * $20k = $340,000,000,000 ($340b)

As you can see, the only way this is sustainable is that more people get in and buy around the same last price to maintain that market cap. Problem is, if price rises too fast vs their earnings from fees + third party capital investments + own equity AND people withdraw huge amounts at the same time(period), crypto exchanges cannot pay you out (i.e. a bank run). Unfortunately, most things rely on a ponzi scheme/pyramid structure in life. The only one who can 100% guarantee it to pay out is the central bank. If they don't have enough fiat, they just print or put more digits in.
Things will really go south when theft occurred (i.e. a hack). Not implying this has happened, just having an open mind and mature discussion here.

As the top forex brokers offering you an insurance in case things go wrong, I don't think they will for cryptos if this continues without new big money coming in, while people cashing out. Therefore, there are only 3 crypto money licensed transmitter exchanges, where there could have been many more crypto fiat exchanges, ask yourself why this didn't happen. I know coinbase and kraken have huge reserves and bistamp had a lot of liquidity as well in the past, that's why everything went so smooth for years. But, when suddenly withdrawals and deposits don't go smooth and it's still not solved within a week, I'm worried and that's my argument. The same thing happens in the business world, hence the stalling of time.

If you know of cases similar to me, send me the data, and we will add them to the "list of victims"!

That surprised me a lot. Did they change that without notice? Bitstamp Ltd. definitely was under CSSF. I would rewrite your case against S.A. and I assume you probably already did.

I think it was always like that, before, no one paid attention to it when there were no problems with Bitstamp. The text about the exchange was licensed from the main page of the site deleted. In the process of applying to the CSSF. A good surprise  :D

Yep, indeed it is. I've found the rules, obligations and regulations for the CSSF and its clients to the CSSF @ https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-007-9691?transitionType=Default&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1
In the worst case scenario, you could also try to contact the ECB, but I think they will refer you to CSSF. ECB authorisatian @ https://www.bankingsupervision.europa.eu/banking/tasks/authorisation/html/index.en.html

Holding money for months without any or useless communication and/or help is not done and shouldn't be allowed. It ruins people's lives.

Keep us informed, thanks!

See it ->

I only heard from one of them and he doesn't want to be on a public list due to privacy reasons.
He said small deposits and withdrawals work, only large ones not.

Maybe this is a government KYC related issue, although speaking from experiences having dealt with KYC with other banking financial institutions, if the stories are true what they want to know, it's plainly insane and very hard to believe the rationalization of KYC other than to cover up something worse. You normally get a few simple questions on telephone or in person at your residential address or one of their offices or have some paperwork to fill in with the worst case a financial statement (I don't see anything worse case in this) and that's it. Funds always have been released within 2 business days. That's why red flags are all over the place.

Public list, does not disclose any information about it. There are only general data and amount for general statistics and presentation to the Bitstamp

I hope you all have reported to https://www.actionfraud.police.uk/report-a-fraud-including-online-crime already, that's at least something we can do.

With so many red flags I'd withdraw my money from BS.. but what are the chances it's gonna work..

Hard to imagine an exchange with no tethers and no leverage/margin to have financial troubles, though, I and I really hope they didn't get hacked again.
I don't have much crypto sitting on BS, only fiat. That'd normally be safe, unless they're now using everyone's fiat deposit to buy back stolen crypto, lol that would be bad.

Bullshit meter over 9000 here.

I don't understand the logic, here.

Bitstamp gets fiat & crypto in & out. They don't buy crypto, they don't sell crypto, they merely reassign fiat & crypto to various people *within* Bitstamp.
Doesn't matter if someone deposits 1 million BTC's to Bitstamp, he will only be able to withdraw them as fiat, if there are buyers *within Bitstamp*.
All they do is reassigning stuff. Bitcoin falls to zero? Doesn't matter a single bit, unless of course they have lost the BTC's they are supposed to have, from hacking. And even here, people would have lost their BTC's, not their fiat. Can't imagine "hacking fiat" out of Bitstamp (how?).

With no leverage, and with real eur/usd instead of tethers, I cannot imagine any way for Bitstamp to lose money, unless it costs them more to run than what fees bring, but with the highest fees out of any exchange, I can't imagine that being the case, at all. If people like myself have paid thousands for months, for what's basic exchange coding, well..
I can only think of 2 ways for Bitstamp to have money problems:
-hacking
-stealing/running away with money
Both having happened to exchanges in the past..

I can really imagine problems with margin trading+tethers, but the only margin trading BS is supposed to have is only in beta, used by a couple of users. I don't think THAT would have already brought BS down.
So, BS only plays with what they have. If they have lost their BTC's, then it's remote hacking or internal fraud. If they have lost their fiat, then it's internal fraud. If they sell more BTC than they have, then it's internal fraud. But in any case, it has to be fraud, not any "logical problem with crypto". Doesn't matter if crypto crashes or rises, for exchanges, they make money both ways.

Elaborate. You know how basic accounting works? If yes, explain in technical detail how an audit works and how this is sustainable, especially when one can short.
Oh wait, you can't, otherwise you would have commented back with a constructive argument, which you have none of.

EDIT:
I only agree that my example is confusing, as it did lack information (thought you would figure that out yourself if you could critically think). With shorting, you are on margin. With leverage, the situation can be much worse.
If one could think, one could see the reason why USD Tether was created (you get my point of central banking, i.e. creation out of thin air, yes?). Don't assume everyone is 100% in crypto. Basic and essential questions like disclosure of financial statements in times of withdrawal problems are 100% valid. Not hard at all, is it?

We're talking about a regulated exchange, which needs to have their AUDITS in order. This means, they need to have RESERVES in both crypto (bitcoin) and fiat. The theorem I gave is just as it is, theory to proof an argument. With a backlog as they have, I imagine it will take a lot of time, hence money. So if liabilities > assets without having enough in reserves, they are in trouble.

Do you really think Bitstamp can in infinity swap bitcoins for fiat? Where do they sell their bitcoins to fiat to without having it on their own (worst case, let's say)? You imagine buyers always pay in fiat, you're wrong. A lot of active people have bitcoins for free or for sub $10 that are bailing out for some now. If there are no more new people depositing fiat, how are you suppose to pay out all the withdrawals. Let's say Bitstamp has $100 million in reserves and $1000 is requested to withdraw. You get my point?

EDIT:
I see you pointed out their income is for fees. Okay, what are their expenses? And with the trouble they're in right now without having the volume other exchanges have, the costs might exceed their income or will be lower in relative terms vs a few months back, now scale that to an unknown timeframe until it's solved, let's say.

Again, you think they can operate forever and assume everyone to buy fiat for bitcoin, while many have seen their btc holdings increase a 1000x. As I've said, many people who got in earlier have rarely more than 20% in crypto and 80% in fiat on exchanges. Now that many of them are pulling out since December 2017, suddenly Bistamp has problems. Go figure. I gave you the theory that proofs my argument.  I can't see how your argument holds up when people have already been in fiat on exchanges for a long time. You assume everyone is 100% in crypto, maybe you're.

TL;DR;
Your assumption that everyone is 100% in crypto on exchanges is wrong. Many people are underexposed in crypto since end December 2017, that means, most of their holdings are in fiat. You were right if everyone is/was 100% in crypto, but obviously, you're wrong on that.

It seems you are absolutely right!

You don't make any sense.

Let's start with the facts. Bitstamp has no leverage nor margin trading (only secretly for a happy few in beta, apparently).

So how does Bitstamp work? Pretty basic: people bring their stuff (crypto, fiat) IN, Bitstamp allows people to REASSIGN properties, like "this bitcoin has been moved from X to Y, while this amount of fiat was moved from Y to X", and that IS ALL THEY DO.

Nothing is created, only reassigned.
Again, it has no leverage and no margin, nothing is created, only properties are reassigned. Margin, leverage, tethers, yeah that's true, but that applies to Bitfinex, Kraken & some others, not Bitstamp.

It does not matter if Satoshi comes in and sells his free Bitcoins. It does not matter a single bit. Satoshi comes in, adds 1 million BTCs to Bitstamp, and manages to sell them. The FIAT that Satoshi gets, comes from another user, who came in with his FIAT, and now goes out with his BTCs. Bitstamp didn't create anything, it only reassigned some user's FIAT to Satoshi, and Satoshi's BTC's to some user.


So, IF Bitstamp is going bankrupt, it can only be 2 possibilities:
1. they don't have the BTC's they were supposed to have. How? Hacking, or shady business where Bitstamp would be selling BTCs created out of thin air. That'd be pure fraud.
2. fraud again, if they disappear with everyone's fiat.


People pay Bitstamp thousands per month, can you imagine how many millions/month they make? They are the exchange with the highest fees. They can't lose money other than by frauding. Especially right now, they make a lot of money out of this crash. It's when people aren't trading that they don't make money.
A pure exchange's model can't lose money unless, again, fraud or hacking occured.
If Bitstamp happens to have been selling BTC's that they don't own, then it's fraud, they aren't supposed to do that, it's nowhere in the model of this business, unlike what you seem to think. That's leverage & margin trading, but they don't do this.
You say that Bitstamp "swaps their own Bitcoins for fiat", *where* are they doing this? Where is Bitstamp selling "its own Bitcoins" for fiat exactly?

And I know that normal banks only have to have a reserve of a fraction of people's money. But they're open about that, it's regulated.
What do you think would happen if it was found out that Bitstamp played with people's BTC's or money & lost them? It would be FRAUD, I can't see how they'd get away with it (especially SINCE they aren't regulated). Their "reserve" is what comes in, they aren't supposed to touch it. Why would they touch it anyway? They must be making huge money the legit way, why would they do this?
I have given Bitstamp a few thousands per month, now multiply this by how many users? A few thousands, that's a lot for what's a "simple" website. You can host your website for a few bucks per month. And I've paid THOUSANDS for this simple service. It doesn't even pay for support guys, since (hence this thread) they provide zero support. They must be making A TON of money, especially for the last 3 months.

Bitstamp having been hacked, yeah that's very plausible, as it has already happened. Bitstamp running away with money, same thing, it has already happened for another exchange. That's much more plausible than your theory.


Also, the problems we have with Bitstamp are 1 month old, they can't be related to any crash. This last month has been crazy, while the BTC was stagnating very high, this has been the best month for ALTs, including all those on Bitstamp, they all rised at least 4x.

Now all the coins have fallen in price. The issue with closed accounts is not solved, for money unknown to us, money is not returned. I want to get my money immediately and do not see the legal grounds for keeping my money Bitstamp. I again hear that my money has been sent to my bank and I need to wait for an answer from Bank Bitstamp! How much longer to wait since November 23 and can not solve the peace issue.

Seriously, you need to reread all my posts. First of all, I gave the possibilities what might have happened if Bitstamp is insolvent. I gave the reasons for a) being hacked/theft; b) committing fraud; c) on the technical side of finances, not having enough liquidity to pay out all withdrawals due to a and/or b. You need to learn to read that my latest theory is based on issues, got it? I'm not accusing Bitstamp of anything, I'm worried about the amount of withdrawal complaints from users all over the place and as adults, can we have an open discussion here or not? That being said, due to theory c, the current situation could be exponentially worse, which might be related to what's going on.

It's amazing how many people are cherry picking posts without taking the entire context in consideration and then base their arguments on a house of cards, just like the MSM does, it's unprofessional.

If they're having issues and cannot handle the load, they should hire more employees, especially if their profits exponentially grew and disclose their clients about issues. Communication is key, especially in a 24/7 environment where big money is at stake. They can learn a lot from Kraken. It's simple as that.

Have you got your money back  ???

At least we agree on something.


Kraken does provide support btw. It may (still? can't even test their "new" engine, Tradeview crashes my browser now) be the shittiest & most broken exchange, whenever I complained to Kraken, they always answered me. With useless answers, but.. they did.

Neither my XRP's nor any compensation for the value they had. Which is.. pretty much 4x the current value now.

(unlike many I don't have any deposit/withdraw problem, most likely because I haven't tried to deposit/withdraw anything for quite some time [except those few thousands XRP's...])

Yes, that's awesome. My apologies if came over as an asshole  :)

I like Kraken a lot and the issues seems to be resolved. I've traded there today without any issues and it's a lot faster now (like in May '17). I still wish margin, leverage and stop orders were back though, hopefully within a month.

Just got my EUR withdrawal from bitstamp after finally completing the stupid KYC.

 I think these are bad signals from Bitstamp, sooner or later they will collapse and will not be able to return all the money. The situation is unexpected, so many people trust Bitstamp, and now there are so many claims and reviews on the Internet and the lost money of clients. It seems they will not solve these problems, the problems last 2 months and every day there are new ones. These are bad calls. I do not see legal acts and notify on what lawful grounds the days of terminated accounts are held. Bitstamp has nothing to say, it's very strange.

That's really what scares me, yes.

There is a Bitstamp guy replying on Reddit, but he has hardly stated anything useful.

And it's not just that they have fucked up because they're idiots, they are -still- fucking up.
Problems started weeks ago, they still haven't closed the door to new users TODAY. Binance, Bitfinex, how many other exchanges did close? Bitfinex only reopened with a requirement of 10k for trading. Why couldn't Bitstamp do this?
They are still letting new users in, knowing they can't handle it. They still fuck up, they have no excuse for that.


Edit: about time:
https://www.bitstamp.net/article/message-bitstamp-ceo-nejc-kodric/

I do not see there answers to my questions, every day I check my bank account and there's nothing there, some people are waiting since August for refunds after the termination of the account. Thanks for the link. I will write CEO in all social networking accounts that I can find. I do not like that my account is closed, I did not receive any money, I do not have any answers from the support, there are no confirmations of sending, no legitimate explanations and resolutions for freezing money have been submitted to me by anyone. It's real shit!

I don’t understand why some guys have these problems with Bitstamp. I withdraw monthly about 20k € and I have the money always within 1-3 days on my bank account (the fastest withdrawal was within 6 hours).

Good question. I do not understand too. The money so far has not been returned referring to problems with the intermediary bank on their side and asked for new bank details that I sent them last week. My first bank did not come. No money, the last answer is from support 29/01/2018

I believe european banks got the memo to get suspicious about money coming from exchange accounts.


Personally I haven't tried to withdraw fiat yet. My problem was with XRP's they blocked for an entire month, which are obviously worthless now, and they refuse to acknowledge the damages.
They even insulted me with a shitty 20 bucks coupon on fees. Yes, 20 bucks. I have given Bitstamp at least 6000eur in fees in 3 months I believe, and they wanna get rid of me with a 20 bucks coupon. Well, I've already stopped trading there, I went back to Kraken yesterday. I'd like to say I gave my money to Kraken yesterday, but apparently there were still no fees there until yesterday.
Kraken vs Bitstamp, broken engine vs broken support, though choice.. And yes I also use foreign exchanges, but I will eventually have to use one of these 2 to withdraw eur. And if Tether shit hits the fan, then I don't know which exchange will be the best option. I assume that Kraken's USD/EUR are real USD/EUR, otherwise Kraken wouldn't let people trade USDT/USD manually...
Really I don't know which exchange is the most trustful today.

Yesterday I made again a 10000.-€  withdrawal. Within 20 hours the money arrived at my German bank account.

Bitstamp!!

There are MANY highly disturbing questions raised in this thread and you are just HIDING from your paying customers like this?

Totally unacceptable behaviour.

I will NOT transfer any of my COMPLETELY LEGAL funds to my account in Bitstamp until I see some very serious effort on your part to divulge everything about your shady business practices!!

Shame on you, Bitstamp.

That pretty much sucks. It yet again shows how financial institutions try to prevent people from entering this market by making things unnecessarily difficult for them.

That's the main problem people have to deal with here. It seems that every exchange in this market is crippled in one way or another, so it's impossible to find an exchange doing everything right. I can't speak in terms of how Bitstamp does when withdrawing EUR since I haven't withdrawn fiat in ages. I can however say that my EUR deposits (most recent one was last friday) comes through without any problems, and already have the funds ready to be put in action. I have never experienced any problems from the moment I started to use Bitstamp, which was back in early 2013. The only bit of annoyance they made me go through was them asking me to verify myself, while I was already verified. It took a few attempts to have them accept the scans due to (according to them) the resolution not being high enough, but it was solved in just a few working days.

After 2+ months, I received a refund to the bank today. Support responded within a few hours by e-mail. If the answers were quick on their part, as it was before, everyone would feel at ease. While this market of coins is too unstable and makes people nervous. Of course the beginning of the market a few years ago was different.

F**CK wish I would have know this earlier..


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/cvovme/warning_big_investors_bitstamp_can_at_will_freeze/

@b0000bser, I know Bitstamp is infuriating and possibly fraudulent but if your net worth is 5m as you say, then just be glad that you didn't deposit a big % of your net worth into Bitstamp, for example 1m or even 2m. Then you would feel sick. A lot of people have been done dirty by Bitstamp and there is nothing much anyone can do except keep fighting. Try your best to get your money back but don't drive yourself crazy if it's not such a big % of your net worth. It will just damage you in the end from the stress.

BUT, if you are determined to get Bitstamp in order, I don't have anywhere near the resources to start any sort of legal case. If you want to bring one against them, that would be welcome from me, as I'm another victim of them.

What you replied to their CS rep on reddit is exactly true, Bitstamp is not any authority to keep anyone's funds. They can do due diligence checks but they're not the fucking police. If they really suspect soooo many people of criminal activity (bullshit excuse IMO) then they should just refund the money and report to police or whatever law enforcement bodies are appropriate.

I didn't get the memo as to when Bitstamp suddenly became Europol. Lol. This will be unironic when eventually they do get reported and raided by Europol themselves.