Bitstamp exchange of currencies: stealing money of the deposit by employees

[kiss moon]

Hello. We have responded to your email and provided a full explanation of your account status. The reason for the delay in responding is because of the increased demand we are currently witnessing.  We have requested your account details in order to send your funds immediately, and are awaiting your response.

Where is my refund? SUPPORT-31882
I'll write a report to the police! from November 23 where is the money? To whom did you send them on December 18? It's not exactly me!

[2kilo]

18 days. Deposit not refund

[crypt0dude]

I've seen a lot so far and this is probably the worst in line with Mt. Gox. Everything I'm going to say is based on the hundreds of stories of people from the last few weeks, so my opinion is biased, keep that in mind.

If I were you, I would take a good law firm. Are you based in Russia? If so, your options are limited and it will take a considerable amount of time, energy and money to get your money back, that is, if they don't declare bankruptcy. Then you also need to have good contacts in Europe with a specialized law firm and various financial institutions (including the ombudsman in Luxembourg), preferably you also have important connections in your family that work in the higher echelons of power (business, government, eu, un, etc.). From all the stories I've read about Bitstamp the last 3 weeks, I've got a feeling their are illiquid (maybe because of theft without disclosing to their clients, I cannot proof this of course).

If you're based on Europe, you have good options and more luck. You definitely should go to your local lawyer and contact ECC (they have a whole bunch of specialized lawyers) and the ombudsman immediately and start an investigation in to Bitstamp, not only for your case (with full compensation including for all lead damages), but a full reassessment of the company. The police will do nothing for you, the ombudsman most likely can't do anything as well and ECC only acts as an intermediate between you and Bitstamp and if they refuse to work with them, they will assist you in court. For all the things I've read, I don't think they can even hold their money transmitter (bank) license and are residing in gray/black areas of European law. Only in the USA, a bank licensed company can freeze an account for 365 days, but NOT in Europe. I think Slovenia has an extradition treaty with Russia, but don't quote me on that. I'm sorry I can't help you further, the lawyers in my family and friends deal with national crime and small private cases and not such cases as finances abroad.

If you keep believing promises and keep waiting and waiting, one day you will never get your money back. You should act NOW and I'm speaking from experiences having dealt with large corporations (also abroad, but I'm in Europe dealing with companies in other another European country), where a resolution can take years. If you sit on your ass, it will work against you when you go to court where the offender's negligence will be turned against you as you being negligence as a defence.

Good luck, I hope you get your money back. You have earned those legit, right? You said from the exchange, is it from the same exchange (profits made IN Bitstamp)? If so, it really sounds like an exit scam via bankruptcy or a (fabricated) story of a hack, that is, worst case scenario, although everything sounds fishy, I might be wrong about Bitstamp (I don't have experience with them, but I'm disappointed by having sent all id documents to them).

I've tried to contact them and don't get any response at all as well and I don't buy that they are busy, the phone keeps ringing, so obviously nobody is picking it up.

As for daytrading for a living (the need to put money out each week (for the fool inside this thread who implies people who pull out fiat each week are criminals, because of structuring), you are professional trader, you should trade CFDs or options with your forex broker that has your money 100% insured. So only Kraken and GDAX are left over for the crypto exchanges (licensed money transmitters).

Thank you for sharing and again, good luck.

[crypt0dude]

Read this as well, some important information by a fellow victim @ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/7pwi77/how_i_did_to_get_answers_from_bitstamp
I don't know if you have recorded everything before they closed your account?

Edit:
I just read their proof of reserves from their website and it's dating from may 2014 (where is the fiat reserve, equity and liquidity balance sheet?). The gut feelings I have line up perfectly what I suspect it to be. I personally feel this will end up very badly and an old meme of 3 years ago regarding Bitstamp going Mt. Gox might have been right after all... we'll see.

Is there any representative of Bitstamp here on the forums? Please update everyone, including all (potential) clients about this situation and your liquidity. When was the last time you were audited?

[kiss moon]

Read this as well, some important information by a fellow victim @ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/7pwi77/how_i_did_to_get_answers_from_bitstamp
I don't know if you have recorded everything before they closed your account?

Edit:
I just read their proof of reserves from their website and it's dating from may 2014 (where is the fiat reserve, equity and liquidity balance sheet?). The gut feelings I have line up perfectly what I suspect it to be. I personally feel this will end up very badly and an old meme of 3 years ago regarding Bitstamp going Mt. Gox might have been right after all... we'll see.

Is there any representative of Bitstamp here on the forums? Please update everyone, including all (potential) clients about this situation and your liquidity. When was the last time you were audited?

Does the USA charge an account for 365 days without a written notice? No, as you see, no one answers from Bitstamp. They just closed my account and I do not have access to it since December 13, 2017. I have not got the money from November 23, 2017. January 8, I received a letter to the email from Bitstamp to return the money to my bank, contacted the bank, the bank did not receive anything and requested a SWIFT message, but Bitstamp again did not answer anything since January 8 . The reason for closing the account and withholding money is not reported, only that the account is closed for reasons of internal policy. As you know, this is full of shit. Why report back if they did not? This is clearly a bad story. It suggests that the exchange lost control in the financial department and customer support services. I did not see the worst delusions in my life from the financial institution. Maybe they have problems, I think people should be afraid of using the exchange. GDAX does not serve customers from Russia as I understood.

[crypt0dude]

Read this as well, some important information by a fellow victim @ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/7pwi77/how_i_did_to_get_answers_from_bitstamp
I don't know if you have recorded everything before they closed your account?

Edit:
I just read their proof of reserves from their website and it's dating from may 2014 (where is the fiat reserve, equity and liquidity balance sheet?). The gut feelings I have line up perfectly what I suspect it to be. I personally feel this will end up very badly and an old meme of 3 years ago regarding Bitstamp going Mt. Gox might have been right after all... we'll see.

Is there any representative of Bitstamp here on the forums? Please update everyone, including all (potential) clients about this situation and your liquidity. When was the last time you were audited?

Does the USA charge an account for 365 days without a written notice? No, as you see, no one answers from Bitstamp. They just closed my account and I do not have access to it since December 13, 2017. I have not got the money from November 23, 2017. January 8, I received a letter to the email from Bitstamp to return the money to my bank, contacted the bank, the bank did not receive anything and requested a SWIFT message, but Bitstamp again did not answer anything since January 8 . The reason for closing the account and withholding money is not reported, only that the account is closed for reasons of internal policy. As you know, this is full of shit. Why report back if they did not? This is clearly a bad story. It suggests that the exchange lost control in the financial department and customer support services. I did not see the worst delusions in my life from the financial institution. Maybe they have problems, I think people should be afraid of using the exchange. GDAX does not serve customers from Russia as I understood.

Located in the USA, they can freeze accounts for up to 365 days when they are a bank licensed company. Paypal does it all the time, because of draconian US law to supposedly fight terrorism and criminals that are hiding in every bush on every corner in that nation, right? However, Bitstamp is headquartered in London, no? If so, they cannot freeze/lock accounts regarding CURRENCY units within them without prior notice in the EU as far as I know. Such decisions need to be ruled by a judge in court with an order, hence all the consumer protection laws from the EU. There is a logical and ethical proven proverb: who claims proves. What is happening now is that they're turning the tables around (as the usa did with the patriot act), where everybody is a suspect (read: criminal) until proven innocent. Black is white and white is black, it's totally criminal in my view.

However, they're in their full right to terminate the contract/service with you at any time according to their own ToS, BUT, we're talking about accounts that hold money and they must deposit it within a certain time frame by law (I think within 2 weeks for consumers/private clients).

As I've said, I think Bitstamp is insolvent, that's why they keep stalling time. As you know, the more time passes, the more likely it is to never get your money back, because the little man (you) is at the bottom of the pyramid, that's why you need to act NOW. And I know this, because I've lost several times money on companies who filed bankruptcy (the bank always is the first one to get money back, then share holders up to the consumer/client - you'll know when you've dealt with this before with a curator) and the little man will get little and most of the time nothing back. The deposits can be used to recoup losses or a withdrawal for somebody else, until it all collapses, that's why you need to act now to get in queue before a potential bankruptcy can be pulled. Hence I urgently ask if anybody knows when Bitstamp is audited the last time.

It's absolutely clear they are stalling time (whether it's legit or not, it doesn't matter) and without compensation for your losses due to instant closure of your account up to the time you received your money minus permitted time (days) by law, you could sue them if you're from Europe and most likely international. I think it's wasted time to speculate or wait, imho.

Good luck and keep us informed, thank you.

EDIT:
You know what to do, right? I've pointed it out plus gave a reference to a post what another one on reddit did. If I were in your shoes, I would have contacted friends and family who know more about the subject and a law firm who deals with this particular issue, financial ombudsman in Luxembourg, ECC and other institutions in Europe, as it's very clear Bitstamp is not willing or able to resolve this in a 1-to-1 fashion (in an untimely matter is also seen as unwilling, as both result in a resolution not being solved by just means). I would ask the lawyer to prepare to make the paperwork in order with a debt collection agency where Bitstamp is located. If they don't handle it with them, you can eventually take them to court by summoning them as a 2nd major suing option. This would have been the recommended way if you were using Bitstamp as a corporate entity anyway. The institutional way (Europe - voluntary way - I should have noted, you'll be only helped if you are a private entity) will take many months initially, that's why your 2nd option is the lawyer/court (by force) way. It's your choice, but I don't think you have more than a year to wait in such cases as this via the voluntary way, as I've seen this several times before as I've said.

[exchange.blue]

It might have something to do with: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1330261.0

[kiss moon]

Read this as well, some important information by a fellow victim @ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitstamp/comments/7pwi77/how_i_did_to_get_answers_from_bitstamp
I don't know if you have recorded everything before they closed your account?

Edit:
I just read their proof of reserves from their website and it's dating from may 2014 (where is the fiat reserve, equity and liquidity balance sheet?). The gut feelings I have line up perfectly what I suspect it to be. I personally feel this will end up very badly and an old meme of 3 years ago regarding Bitstamp going Mt. Gox might have been right after all... we'll see.

Is there any representative of Bitstamp here on the forums? Please update everyone, including all (potential) clients about this situation and your liquidity. When was the last time you were audited?

Does the USA charge an account for 365 days without a written notice? No, as you see, no one answers from Bitstamp. They just closed my account and I do not have access to it since December 13, 2017. I have not got the money from November 23, 2017. January 8, I received a letter to the email from Bitstamp to return the money to my bank, contacted the bank, the bank did not receive anything and requested a SWIFT message, but Bitstamp again did not answer anything since January 8 . The reason for closing the account and withholding money is not reported, only that the account is closed for reasons of internal policy. As you know, this is full of shit. Why report back if they did not? This is clearly a bad story. It suggests that the exchange lost control in the financial department and customer support services. I did not see the worst delusions in my life from the financial institution. Maybe they have problems, I think people should be afraid of using the exchange. GDAX does not serve customers from Russia as I understood.

Located in the USA, they can freeze accounts for up to 365 days when they are a bank licensed company. Paypal does it all the time, because of draconian US law to supposedly fight terrorism and criminals that are hiding in every bush on every corner in that nation, right? However, Bitstamp is headquartered in London, no? If so, they cannot freeze/lock accounts regarding CURRENCY units within them without prior notice in the EU as far as I know. Such decisions need to be ruled by a judge in court with an order, hence all the consumer protection laws from the EU. There is a logical and ethical proven proverb: who claims proves. What is happening now is that they're turning the tables around (as the usa did with the patriot act), where everybody is a suspect (read: criminal) until proven innocent. Black is white and white is black, it's totally criminal in my view.

However, they're in their full right to terminate the contract/service with you at any time according to their own ToS, BUT, we're talking about accounts that hold money and they must deposit it within a certain time frame by law (I think within 2 weeks for consumers/private clients).

As I've said, I think Bitstamp is insolvent, that's why they keep stalling time. As you know, the more time passes, the more likely it is to never get your money back, because the little man (you) is at the bottom of the pyramid, that's why you need to act NOW. And I know this, because I've lost several times money on companies who filed bankruptcy (the bank always is the first one to get money back, then share holders up to the consumer/client - you'll know when you've dealt with this before with a curator) and the little man will get little and most of the time nothing back. The deposits can be used to recoup losses or a withdrawal for somebody else, until it all collapses, that's why you need to act now to get in queue before a potential bankruptcy can be pulled. Hence I urgently ask if anybody knows when Bitstamp is audited the last time.

It's absolutely clear they are stalling time (whether it's legit or not, it doesn't matter) and without compensation for your losses due to instant closure of your account up to the time you received your money minus permitted time (days) by law, you could sue them if you're from Europe and most likely international. I think it's wasted time to speculate or wait, imho.

Good luck and keep us informed, thank you.

EDIT:
You know what to do, right? I've pointed it out plus gave a reference to a post what another one on reddit did. If I were in your shoes, I would have contacted friends and family who know more about the subject and a law firm who deals with this particular issue, financial ombudsman in Luxembourg, ECC and other institutions in Europe, as it's very clear Bitstamp is not willing or able to resolve this in a 1-to-1 fashion (in an untimely matter is also seen as unwilling, as both result in a resolution not being solved by just means). I would ask the lawyer to prepare to make the paperwork in order with a debt collection agency where Bitstamp is located. If they don't handle it with them, you can eventually take them to court by summoning them as a 2nd major suing option. This would have been the recommended way if you were using Bitstamp as a corporate entity anyway. The institutional way (Europe - voluntary way - I should have noted, you'll be only helped if you are a private entity) will take many months initially, that's why your 2nd option is the lawyer/court (by force) way. It's your choice, but I don't think you have more than a year to wait in such cases as this via the voluntary way, as I've seen this several times before as I've said.

I understand you. I will write again at the CSSF in Luxembourg. I wrote there in December and they answered that they were regulating Bitmamp SA Luxembourg. In any case, it is necessary to point out to the facts that someone has controlled and checked their activities.
Tnx!

[kiss moon]

It might have something to do with: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1330261.0

I know that. In 2016, I had a break with Bitstamp, after stealing the coins from them. Then sent to the e-mail that users from Russia can work with the exchange. In the spring of 2017, before I resumed my work with Bitstamp, I approached the question of what I got the answer for - we are working, there are no problems. I do not think that the problem is this.

[exchange.blue]

It might have something to do with: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1330261.0

I know that. In 2016, I had a break with Bitstamp, after stealing the coins from them. Then sent to the e-mail that users from Russia can work with the exchange. In the spring of 2017, before I resumed my work with Bitstamp, I approached the question of what I got the answer for - we are working, there are no problems. I do not think that the problem is this.

if they're having issues with the russian government, I honestly don't think that they're going to openly disclose it. Frankly, I would never rely on what customer support has to say, after all its the bottom of the food chain.  they would be the last to know about anything  / any pending deals with the government. Support reps are live robots, they good for reading between the lines and thats it! I personally never rely on anything that support reps has to say. At the end of the day its your word against his... what you gonna do when things turn around not in your favor?... go out and look for him:)

[crypt0dude]

@kiss moon

You're welcome!

It's not only Russia guys. I got friends in Germany, Netherlands and France and they're having the same problems as you guys have mentioned started from early December 2017, but for smaller amounts around €5k - €10k.

I did some more digging and indeed Bitstamp is regulated by Luxembourg Financial Industry Supervisory Commission CSSF. That does not mean you will receive compensation in case they go bankrupt or are hacked, they can decide if they want to do that out of goodwill, they are not obligated to do so. You did the right thing by writing CSSF if Bitstamp does not want to work this out with you. I'm over 90% sure the UK's ombudsman (FOS) cannot help you at all, as I wrote earlier. That leaves you with CSSF, ECC (private/consumer only) and law firms.

I don't think the other two licensed crypto exchanges offer you any compensation insurance as well, hence most professional traders trade on wall street or in the uk as being part of uk's FSCS (50K GBP insurance).

Good luck!

[crypto_curious]

@kiss moon

You're welcome!

It's not only Russia guys. I got friends in Germany, Netherlands and France and they're having the same problems as you guys have mentioned started from early December 2017, but for smaller amounts around €5k - €10k.

I did some more digging and indeed Bitstamp is regulated by Luxembourg Financial Industry Supervisory Commission CSSF. That does not mean you will receive compensation in case they go bankrupt or are hacked, they can decide if they want to do that out of goodwill, they are not obligated to do so. You did the right thing by writing CSSF if Bitstamp does not want to work this out with you. I'm over 90% sure the UK's ombudsman (FOS) cannot help you at all, as I wrote earlier. That leaves you with CSSF, ECC (private/consumer only) and law firms.

I don't think the other two licensed crypto exchanges offer you any compensation insurance as well, hence most professional traders trade on wall street or in the uk as being part of uk's FSCS (50K GBP insurance).

Good luck!

Which exchange, in your opinion, is registered with FSCS? I don't know about any.

[2kilo]

Bitstamp: List of Victim - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2755922

[Nivir]

We really need more decentralized exchanges but it should be something competitive too like these top crypto exchanges.

[kiss moon]

@kiss moon

You're welcome!

It's not only Russia guys. I got friends in Germany, Netherlands and France and they're having the same problems as you guys have mentioned started from early December 2017, but for smaller amounts around €5k - €10k.

I did some more digging and indeed Bitstamp is regulated by Luxembourg Financial Industry Supervisory Commission CSSF. That does not mean you will receive compensation in case they go bankrupt or are hacked, they can decide if they want to do that out of goodwill, they are not obligated to do so. You did the right thing by writing CSSF if Bitstamp does not want to work this out with you. I'm over 90% sure the UK's ombudsman (FOS) cannot help you at all, as I wrote earlier. That leaves you with CSSF, ECC (private/consumer only) and law firms.

I don't think the other two licensed crypto exchanges offer you any compensation insurance as well, hence most professional traders trade on wall street or in the uk as being part of uk's FSCS (50K GBP insurance).

Good luck!

Which exchange, in your opinion, is registered with FSCS? I don't know about any.

https://s17.postimg.org/p72m6ikvj/cssf.png - Answer from CSSF  

[cryptocratic]

Are anybody besides russian citizens facing the same?

[2kilo]

Are anybody besides russian citizens facing the same?

Yes, in the LoV, there were more than half of not Russian

[crypt0dude]

@kiss moon

You're welcome!

It's not only Russia guys. I got friends in Germany, Netherlands and France and they're having the same problems as you guys have mentioned started from early December 2017, but for smaller amounts around €5k - €10k.

I did some more digging and indeed Bitstamp is regulated by Luxembourg Financial Industry Supervisory Commission CSSF. That does not mean you will receive compensation in case they go bankrupt or are hacked, they can decide if they want to do that out of goodwill, they are not obligated to do so. You did the right thing by writing CSSF if Bitstamp does not want to work this out with you. I'm over 90% sure the UK's ombudsman (FOS) cannot help you at all, as I wrote earlier. That leaves you with CSSF, ECC (private/consumer only) and law firms.

I don't think the other two licensed crypto exchanges offer you any compensation insurance as well, hence most professional traders trade on wall street or in the uk as being part of uk's FSCS (50K GBP insurance).

Good luck!

Which exchange, in your opinion, is registered with FSCS? I don't know about any.

There are no crypto exchanges registered with FSCS, that's the problem. Only top forex brokers located in the UK, but you need to check that to be sure and have it black on white in paper.

I don't think Bistamp is liquid to handle huge amounts of withdrawals and probably not even solvent to do so. That's my opinion based on what has and still is going on and basic math + common sense.
Let's say, in theorem, that Bitstamp or any other crypto exchange has users that have 50% of Bitcoins mined and 50% - 1 are bought for $1. Now the last guy buys the bitcoin for $20k. The market cap of bitcoin rises to supply * last traded price. Let's say, supply of 17 million bitcoins and let's assume Bitstamp had a monopoly where all users will go to buy/sell bitcoin and have their entire account equity (deposits) used.
To use some simple arithmetic:
Bitstamp client deposits: 17m * 0.5 * $1 + 1 * $20k = $8.5 million + $20k = $8,520,000 ($8.52m)
Market cap from: 17m * $1 = $17m, to: 17m * $20k = $340,000,000,000 ($340b)

As you can see, the only way this is sustainable is that more people get in and buy around the same last price to maintain that market cap. Problem is, if price rises too fast vs their earnings from fees + third party capital investments + own equity AND people withdraw huge amounts at the same time(period), crypto exchanges cannot pay you out (i.e. a bank run). Unfortunately, most things rely on a ponzi scheme/pyramid structure in life. The only one who can 100% guarantee it to pay out is the central bank. If they don't have enough fiat, they just print or put more digits in.
Things will really go south when theft occurred (i.e. a hack). Not implying this has happened, just having an open mind and mature discussion here.

As the top forex brokers offering you an insurance in case things go wrong, I don't think they will for cryptos if this continues without new big money coming in, while people cashing out. Therefore, there are only 3 crypto money licensed transmitter exchanges, where there could have been many more crypto fiat exchanges, ask yourself why this didn't happen. I know coinbase and kraken have huge reserves and bistamp had a lot of liquidity as well in the past, that's why everything went so smooth for years. But, when suddenly withdrawals and deposits don't go smooth and it's still not solved within a week, I'm worried and that's my argument. The same thing happens in the business world, hence the stalling of time.

[2kilo]

It's not only Russia guys. I got friends in Germany, Netherlands and France and they're having the same problems as you guys have mentioned started from early December 2017, but for smaller amounts around €5k - €10k.

If you know of cases similar to me, send me the data, and we will add them to the "list of victims"!

[crypt0dude]

@kiss moon

You're welcome!

It's not only Russia guys. I got friends in Germany, Netherlands and France and they're having the same problems as you guys have mentioned started from early December 2017, but for smaller amounts around €5k - €10k.

I did some more digging and indeed Bitstamp is regulated by Luxembourg Financial Industry Supervisory Commission CSSF. That does not mean you will receive compensation in case they go bankrupt or are hacked, they can decide if they want to do that out of goodwill, they are not obligated to do so. You did the right thing by writing CSSF if Bitstamp does not want to work this out with you. I'm over 90% sure the UK's ombudsman (FOS) cannot help you at all, as I wrote earlier. That leaves you with CSSF, ECC (private/consumer only) and law firms.

I don't think the other two licensed crypto exchanges offer you any compensation insurance as well, hence most professional traders trade on wall street or in the uk as being part of uk's FSCS (50K GBP insurance).

Good luck!

Which exchange, in your opinion, is registered with FSCS? I don't know about any.

https://s17.postimg.org/p72m6ikvj/cssf.png - Answer from CSSF  

That surprised me a lot. Did they change that without notice? Bitstamp Ltd. definitely was under CSSF. I would rewrite your case against S.A. and I assume you probably already did.