Bitcoin Forum

Hello People of Bitcointalk Forum. Greetings, my name is athanz88.

With the implementation of new system called "Merit Point System" today, there are lot of emotions going around the forum right now, especially in the meta section.

You can find about it more at :

As I'm not going to discuss about it here (because the discussion is happening on the thread i mentioned at the upper line), I want to propose a poll to a simple question, which is

How Do You Feel About The Merit Point System???

What I'm asking here is only your emotion about this new system (for the poll) and 1 line of your best reason why do you feel that way. Without any discussion in this thread.
I made this poll because it is good to know the statistic for new system as it can be used to do many things. You know, data, and the main thing is because there is no poll in the original thread.

So, please kindly do this polling.

Best regards, athanz88.


P.S : this poll and the statistic gathered is only for a demographic data and will not be used as a tool to object/deny the new implemented system. In fact, im happy with this new system. If this is wrong, please just kindly tell me to delete or lock this topic, and dont bash me :(

UPDATE !!!

This is what i got from me thread in the first week of merit system applied. I got 100 votes in my thread.

https://i.imgur.com/z752DDl.jpg

Feel free to comment about it guys !

I like the idea of merit. As I said in the main post I think it will help cut down useless posts and spam. It will also help fight against signature campaign fraud and account farming.

My only issue with the system is that I was 30 points away from becoming a hero member, but now, I will also have to wait for another 250 merit points. I think that they should have made the merit equal to activity for its introduction.

Hate it. It's another system designed for abuse by a happy few who have unlimited merit power, like the trust system is already abused by a happy few with special trust power. If there were any alternative I would not spend another second more on this forum.  >:(

Just bothered a little since I'm not yet quite confident in my grammar coz I think it is also a basis for a quality post, second is that what else I need to do if no one give me merits? If my account reach the peak of needed activity to rank up.  Do I need to message everyone to give me merit in exchange of one merit also? and that's not good to do because it's like as earning trust, but I'm happy about this because nonsense and repeated thread is irritating me.

The matter is with merits, you have to totally depends upon others, on their generosity, their free time. That also requires lots of luck. I don't really think that the merit system, by which I mean the current one, will actually solve the problem in fairly way. hence, the merit system should be ajusted in some more appropriate approach.

I don't like how the merit system is currently implemented.  It's setup for abuse of power. Perhaps a different kind of merit system, but not as it currently stands.

I'll probably ignore it. It's nice to receive some sort of feedback on a post, and other boards use like and thanks buttons.

Here is my record on one such board.
http://www.cryptobounty.com/likes-count.jpg


I know, I spend too much time on the boards. :)

Yup, don't like it, so now you depend on other people to rank up on this forum, that's just not fair.
You could post 100 quality posts and not to receive single merit, and you could post 1 shitpost and get 100 merits.
So yea, it's not really thought through system, and therefore not fair at all...

Overall the intention to implement is to encourage quality posts. But let us see how this unfolds. I am sure some tweaking might be required in future.

it is fair... provide value... information... entertainment... just something of substance and in time you will be rewarded by merits..

if you don't, you just shitpost for a sig campaign.. in time you will have no merits then sig campaigns will move to awarding places by merit #'s then you will be totally fucked...

this gives quality a chance over Quantity.. its a good idea, there may be some alteration to the execution, but its doing something over doing nothing and I support that

I only see one negative to the system from my viewpoint out on the fringe - I am discouraged from posting because anything other than more info in return is, in fact, shitposting.

Case in point:  This post may, or may not have merit. I'm not making that determination as I am not a moderator.
This reply is my opinion. As it contains no new or relevant info, it's a shitpost.

I'll take my demerit now, Sir!

Nope it's not, if life would be fair then this would be also...
But like I said:"You could post 100 quality posts and not to receive single merit, and you could post 1 shitpost and get 100 merits."
And I stick to that, no one can guarantee to you that if you keep posting quality shit that you will get merits.

How it will manifest itself on the forum, should be considered comprehensively. Yes, they should help against spam. Already in all sell merits, and it is not a secret for anybody. And this is a very bad, bad twice. First, it is the speculators, and second of all honest users in mind start to have bad thoughts, because they, too, could get a cache.  Ha ha, I'm glad innovation, and on the other hand I'm only 5 days short of the next rank.

I like the idea, and hopefully people will post more HQ threads instead of post whore.

I guarantee it... post 100 quality posts and ill give you 5 merits..

so there a guarantee of merits... and guess what - others of us with merits to spare will do the same if we see consistent quality posts.. not shitposts... not one lines... not boring shit that has been asked before..  substance... like a good old full English breakfast

Well, whatever you say, if I got minimal 100 person to vote, I can make a demographic data about "how does people feel about merit point when it launched" then later on when merit point system is already working for about months, I can make new poll and then make some comparison.
It is a method to measure people satisfaction about a product, from there we can make other conclusion like how succesful in the eye of users, or we can know which ranks are happy or not happy about it and so on. You can not get that measurement without making a poll or a survey. Sometimes things is created, not only just by talking based on your knowledge.

We do have the same thing in mind. I hope theymos can see this. I'm 30 activities away from becoming an Sr. Member now i need to earn 150 Merits just to rank up.

It's a good thing tho to remove alt accounts lessen the problems with them.

I like the idea, but not how it has been implemented. Something like this was necessary to fight the tsunamy of spam, but they way it has been designed with a few exceptions nobody will ever rise in rank any more - they could have abolished the changing of rank all together. Would have been the same.

Exactly. It is essentially freezing of rankings. With the current implementation getting 90 or 150 points to rise to member or full member is impossible.

I do not think it will be hard. It might not catch on right away but it will definitely pick up in the future once members realize it is vital to the community.

The problem is that sMerit points are incredibly scarce. My present very rough estimate is that only 1 in 50 or 100 posts will get a merit point. So, several thousand posts to rank up to full member? It's ridiculous.

Come on guys, I need more voters to make infographic data, all ranks can vote and appreciated.

all I see is people who support this system is talking bad words, humiliate others

i am not gonna say my opinion here because a legendary said talking anything bad about the system will break the rule.

so I hope I don't break the rule.

but the truth is in everyone's mind

For me its hard,I feel bad because honestly I am not good in grammar but despite of that I want to spread my idea about bitcoin.Its hard to rank up,what you mean is more post to become a senior member oh thats not good.As for now we dont really mean what is merit but as for rules and regulations of bitcointalk all we have to do is to follow.

I think it is quite early to give a conclusion about this but I will post the merits and demerits as per my opinion:

Merits:

1) It is kind of exciting for me currently. I keep checking my merit page regularly to see if someone gave one. While making a post, it is in my mind that I have to be unique and helpful.

2) It will reduce the spam. This will be confirmed later with website stats easily.

3) Reduce the burden on mangers of signature campaigns. They have additional metric now Smerit to judge quality.


Demerits:

1) Admin and moderators may not be able to prevent selling of merits especially outside this forum.

2) People on the edge of new membership levels suffered a lot.


Overall it will benefit the forum.

Exactly. If I had merit points you would get some. Unfortunately the mobsters on top decided to advantage themselves and kicking down newer ones. And I cannot hand out merits.

I liked merit system made by sir theymos i hope it will works and without abusing on it.
I saw now in every sections here in forum that many high ranks open a new topic that having with sense post i don't think if they are started collecting merits points. Before only newbie i saw making a nonsense new topic and some of them their post was deleted by moderators.
Abusing is possible happen on merit system hopefully they will identify who abused of giving merits and be fair on giving merits not because that person was close to you or the same in signature campaign.

The more great posts you make the higher chance you have of getting points. This system is to stop people just posting pages and pages of one liners made solely just to rank up. Now these people will get nowhere by doing that.


Make posts in your local board if this is an issue to you. It's not only English speaking users that are going to be giving merit points out.


You would give out merits for nothing? Maybe this is a good reason why you don't have any and they have to be earned over time.

I think Theymos could have implemented a simpler solution to deal with spam but this new system will definitely reduce it. There will be small cheating, though, and it won’t be 100% perfect, but it will do the trick.

It would be an excellent idea if sMerit points were not so scarce. The chances are tiny. Good quality posts will be buried in large volume of typical ones. I've got 5 sMerit points and I will probably spend then when getting some good answers for my (mostly technical) questions. Then I will have none. Sometimes I answer questions, but it often happens in the "Beginners & Help" subforum, and Newbies don't have sMerits to send me. sMerit sources? They are too few. So why even bother?

I'm not sure this system can stop spam. New members can try to get 10 points by quantity, not quality. 10 points is a lot, maybe it will take a month to get 1 point, but it seems to be doable. 150 points in any reasonable amount of time is impossible.

It's very natural to see that there are pros and cons about this new feature.
Even myself is convinced that the power is from the admin itself he know what to do with his site. I am also affected with this merit. However I  will just accept the reality that this happen for improvement of each individual by making this forum be better.

His post was brilliant. Finaly someone who refuses to place his lips on the Legendary's buttocks. Very merit worthy to my estimation.

For the most part i hate it. I was just a skip ahead till i become a member yet i can't be one. I understand that the admin did this to push members to post quality posts. But reminder, there are still low ranks who dont shit post, but will be affected by the merit system. If it is so hard for us to be noticed, what more to be given a merit?

I have given you 4 merits - post in my other thread and come back in a week - consistently post as you have been and I will top you up to 10.

some people need a chance, so Ill give you one. but if there are any posts moaning about merits or any shitposts I wont be topping you up to 10.

Does this mean i am eligible to your TMAN's challenge? If that's the case monitor me, i guarantee you i always post things that i have in mind and that things are not shit.

I like that, TMAN. Very civil gesture.

Since I don't monetize off the forum, I'm mostly neutral on the new merit system (it has generated more threads and posts, not necessarily of quality) and basically indifferent, now.

I just came here to learn a bit, share a little knowledge (if I have it), and pass some time.

 :)

yes fella - post in the thread so I remember who you are..

Yes is nice to be an neutral compared to against their implemented rules, now i clearly understand about merit system.
I strongly agreed with this new featured merit system that all member here in forum to push them selves to post quality post in forum not to spam or shit poster. Hopefully these new system now did not abused to others.

I have some question sir merit system may abuse? how to determined that they abusing on merit?

to sum it up. in a few days i won't care anymore.

you should care buddy, if it helps fight the spam and people start thinking about posts more. it just makes the whole forum a better place to be.

For the ones in power; yes. Not for the rest of the forum members.

yes because people like you will learn to evolve quickly, make higher quality posts, educate yourself faster and not post silly questions that can be looked up quickly.

The one thing the merit system learns is how to evolve slowly or not at all. What a newspeak!  :D

seeing as you have negs from 2 people I respect I didn't even go as far as looking at your posts to see if they are worth any merits.

I have mixed feelings about the new system. I feel that the system in general is working from the stand point of quality posts. I think we've seen many different users trying to earn merit points and are therefore now contributing to discussion much more than they have before. I think we've seen a lot more in depth and constructive posts. Certainly discussion relating to the new system there's been much discussion in the main announcement and suggestions and changes.

The main objective seems to be working and that was to improve post quality. But, I believe there are a few pitfalls and a few genuine users are going to get hurt by this system. I mentioned on the main thread that a downfall to this sort of system is that people who start the topics are going to get a lot more merits than anyone posting in existing discussion. This will likely lead to people posting new threads which are duplicates from others in attempt to earn more merits. Also, well thought out responses are getting lost a few posts in and arn't getting any merit at all. Early observations have shown that only a few posts a few pages in are getting merits.

I think another pitfall in the system is that at the moment Smerits are inconsistent. You'll see a lot of the higher ranked members and people who are generally known getting the majority of the points. I feel unless there are hundreds of sources added in the future (which theymos suggested will likely happen) people trying to rank up will struggle. Especially, when only 1 merit point is given out to a quality post. They would literally need to make hundreds of quality and informative posts and get NOTICED to rank up. I really do feel the newly ranked members are going to get shafted because a lot of the merit points are just going to be distributed between those who are well known in the community already.

Also, it seems at the moment merit points are being awarded to those already knowledgeable about Bitcoin. Not those asking questions and creating in depth discussions. I think we need to reward those who are trying to learn more by asking complex questions. Obviously, not reward questions like "What exchange" etc.

Really though it's too early to judge and we should at least allow a few months before passing judgment.

There's been several changes to how users obtain ranks. It used to be tied to post count alone which meant you could literally spam your way up to hero member in a day. A lot of people when activity was introduced lost their rank and downgraded quite a bit.

I actually am confused if I am happy or not because of the new merit system. I genuinely agree the concept of merit as it is to stop shit posting and shit posters getting paid snd much nore things. But also now we have to get merits to rank up and that can cause a bit of trouble in ranking up. I just noticed that the amount of merits got by the well known members of the forum is quite high when compared to merits received by members who actually have good quality posts. What I'm trying to say is people are giving merits to the upper tier members who basically are the DT members.

I am new here but i think i have come to this forum at a right time. A new system is being in place and i hope it will be easy for me to achieve all the higher ranks if i just focus on one thing which is Quality posting and forget about everything.

Oh, my posts are full of merit, just not your type of merit. My merit is the merit of virtue, yours that of vice.

Sure I got 2 negs. Given the truth I speak about the clique here on this forum it surprises me that not more clique members tagged me for it. Lauda didn't like me revealing his true nature as "scammy" and where Lauda goes TheUltraElite follows like his shadow, we all know that. I bet they have also been meriting each other already lushly.

Welcome to the forum, eternal newbie.  :D

I'm in neutral position because my feelings are mixed. Now it will be more difficult to reach Legendary rank, but I don't care much about it. But for current newbies reaching high rank will be very hard and they will need to post many years to get hundreds of Merit points. Offcourse, there will be less lazy shitposters and account farmers signing up daily, but it will also may prevent legit new users who can post good content by from joining forum. On the other hand, reaching Member or Full Member ranks doesn't looks impossible if they have good quality of posts and they will be able to participate in signature campaigns.
Now I'm more happy to give sMerit to new users, because I think they more need for it than these high ranked members. But it looks crazy how Lutpin received more than 500 Merit in one day. So far these who are posting in Meta are getting most Merit points, and not always for posting high quality posts, but just because they are well known on Bitcointalk. And offcourse, they are getting Merit for previous contribution.
What I don't like about Merit system that it doesn't affect old users who already reached high rank by making low quality posts. I think this idea https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2605767.msg26520885#msg26520885 would be betterbecause it would affect every member of Bitcointalk and these who have dozens of alt accounts hardly would be able to pay fee for every account.

I was chill on that, I'm not totally happy regarding the merit system. But I'll take it as a challenge to enhance my ability and knowledge. There's no wrong in merit or demerit system because DT study it clearly, I know they do this to excel our knowledge. Because sometimes even you have no good taught of English, but you work hard and post for long period of time you will reach the legendary position. Now I guess it's hard to achieve because merit system will design to see whose user's improve their post.
From shit poster to very light shit poster to as good poster to a knowledge poster.
Maybe DT wants to improve our selves with our owns, I know we can do it, just trust to ourselves and be competitive. Good luck to all of us.

Yeah, thanks for your reply man.
I made this vote to see people emotions about it and will make infographic data and make some conclusion (trivia) from it if I have enough correspondent (minimal 100 votes). It is not a tool to judge this system. I personally like this system and hope this solution can bring an end to all account farmer and spammer, just like what we have dreamed all the time.

To be frank even I feel the same.People who are already famous due to many reasons for instance campaign managers and DT members are getting more than enough merits from other members.Most of them do this in order to make them feel flattered.
But guys do you think such things can flatter them??and as a response they will select you for each and every campaign!!!!!!??????
If you are doing this then wake up already pal.I am not saying that don't give them merits,but please don't use this efficient merit system for flattering others.There are many good posters out there who are struggling to rank up and make a good name for themselves in this forum.We should appreciate such posters and merit them instead.

i guess it is hard for a newbie specially those jr member to rank up  because people will not be able to rank up unless someone will give them a merit that they need most , and i guess if someone dont know a person they dont give a merit to him even that person is a quality poster .

I think merit is an unofficial judgement where most of the people gives merit to those well-known campaign managers to make sure that those managers will include them in their next signature campaign . and how about those newbies and junior members who have quality post . are they eligible to rank up?

I'm definitely happy with the new system. By close observations, a person can clearly see that the majority of the people on this forum don't even know what a quality post is. Most of them think "more characters = higher post quality", and just because of this false assumption they start making much more longer and way more useless posts to make them look like quality posts, while the quality of a post has nothing to do with its quantity of length.
Merit system can be (if not used with partiality) a permanent full stop for all those accounts created for nothing else but joining Signature Campaigns. And that thus leads to less spam, IMO.


People creating duplicate or useless threads in order to get Merits would not get any, because that is why this system is implemented. If the duplicate or spam threads start to get Merits then there is no use of the system as there is no restriction for anyone from any rank on creating threads.


Hopefully in future the campaigns will require Extra Merit Points (Beside the ones already given for each rank on implementation of the system) to join along with the rank. And if that happens, there will be no use of Meriting well-known signature campaign managers to get into their campaigns if you yourself have none.
About newbies and jr. members with high quality posts; you can already find them having Merits. My profile is an example of that. So yes, we can rank up if we deserve to, and if we don't, we won't.

The first time I read about this new merit system, Honestly I feel sad because not all people here give merits easily even if you post a good one because of some standards they believe for. But now after reading details more about this I feel being challenged, yeah its hard to do so but we have to. I just hope for everyone fairness here no matter what your rank is, no matter if you wear a red trust but instead focus more on the message of a specific post.

I am also neutral about this. I am happy that this will atleast prevent spammers and discourage them to create multiple accounts posting rubbish. But I am also not happy for myself and for newbies like me who will be take time to rank up and most likely be ignored even when they are posting high quality. But I am also touched with the other high ranked members who are trying their best to genuinely help the newbies out there to get merits and also teaching us what quality post are. I'm sure it will be difficult for me to get a high rank because English is not my first language and also I still need to learn a lot for me to contribute more in this community.

This is quite interesting and hard. This makes us (camp users/participants) more secure too. You can only get merits if you have quality posts and that is what we need right now. Good posts, senseful and actually useful. The measurement doesn't have to be the long answer, the valued answer is when it is composed with sense.

I don't think this is the case. It's probably just more noticeable when a thread created gets points as opposed to posts scattered within it. As time goes on I'm sure people who actually care about decent discussion will reward quality posts and not just threads as it's quality discussion that people want to see and encourage and what better way to do that than to reward those who are putting in the effort.


Post more in your local board where I'm sure you will be more likely to get merit from fellow speakers.

--------------------



I wonder what are the chances you two are the same person?  ::)

Well, surely something had to be done, now we've to see how it works. If the only result will be the freezing of the rank we won't have achieved much.  Unfortunately if we had tied the merits to the activity nothing would have really changed. My only concern is the satisfaction of the true new members. We'll see.

Bitcoin talk is dying because of being overcrowded by leeches sucking up signature campaigns.
Yes I am one of the people excited when campaigns are opened particularly when my rank is included but I can say I avoid spamming my own way.
It's sad to say how many of may fellowmen are rushing in the forum. Though I am proud to be a Filipino, it's a bit shameful seeing them so greedy.

I like the new system, it's up for the newbies to prove themselves here.
Early members are lucky, even some of them are spammers too.

I think the new system is a bad idea. I really don't think people will give out much merit at all. Even if you write the most amazing post, you probably wont get merit. Most people don't have any to give either. I think it will end up with almost everyone not advancing and people with lots of merit will probably sell it for money to people. All in all not a good system.

It's not intended to be a good system for all but to be a good system for a few (whose names most of us know).

If I may correct your word. This new system called merit point is a great system for all of us who want to be better.
This is a forum, a place to gather and talking about a specific topic (which is cryptocurrency). This forum doesn't prohibit you from earning money by joining in a signature campaign, but the forum needs to make sure that everyone has a standard quality of a good poster. So if you still want to make some money from this forum, you better step up your game rather than barking about the system. There will be no easy money in this world !

I think that members should only be allowed to award one point per post. It is already apparent that the sig spammers and account farmers are picking up 30-50 points a time for rubbish posts.

I feel the new system discriminates the new members. As a Jr. Member myself, I cannot get any merit points because you can't really bring anything new at this point with the current experience.

I see a lot of sr./hero members that do not post in plain English or are hard to follow when they post. Not to mention that they never bring any good value to this forum. I see them having received Merit by default when this was activated. This doesn't see right at all.

Maybe add the merit system as a next level option. For example create a new level - Influencer (or add half of a gold coin of some color to their profile) of users above legendary that is granted only when X merit is received.

I understand the whole purpose of this was to increase the quality but how about implementing a "like" system instead for people to like if they consider your post useful. Easily to grant and do. The merit system seems a bit hard to use and overcomplicated.

I hope the forum administrators will reconsider this decision and change the system.
As it is right now it is a bit "Trumpish" by not allowing new members to evolve.

Newspeak! "All of us who want to be better". The selected few are getting worse! I've been called names from cunt to motherfucker and a whole lot more by members with more than a thousand merits, only because my contentual posts are not agreed upon. You call that 'quality'? With proper moderation they'd be banned for it. In fact there is 'easy' money to be earned in this world, but it is reserved for a few respectless abusers!

Well... to be fair - there's more than one crypto forum out and about - ok, so sig bounty peeps might wish to try to maintain their rank progression to keep up their incomes, but if you are at the mercy of the few who have sMerit to deem you worthy, then you're already playing a centralized game that is stacked against you.

I agree with the train of thought that the spam posting and obvious ignorance of forum posting rules is annoying and needed dealt with. But this won't fix that. Those posts will remain, along with a lot of new spam posts asking why no rank-up?? How do I rank and get merit?

But meh, I always tried to follow the rules, and now the goal posts have changed. That's life. Its not really worth losing your head over. In fact, if this is the worse thing to have happened to you lately... count urself lucky lol. 

+1 fella, roll with the punches and stay upbeat

It's not a solution to all the forum's problems but it now at least stops people from creating multiple accounts and just shitposting with them to rank up. Now if you don't put some effort in you will get no where. More restrictions/punishments need to be put on badly run campaigns though otherwise little will change regarding the quality of posts here.


Wait... you want to ban people now for calling you names? Sounds like you don't want free speech at all. Just free speech for yourself to be able to do what you like but not others. People seem to love the freedom and laissez faire moderation here but then complain when somebody says something they don't like and staff don't intervene. You can't have it both ways. If people dislike or disagree with the way things are run here then they should protest with their absence and leave because that would be the strongest form of protest but we know they're not going to do that because this forum is too valuable to them, only it's now got a little bit harder to earn and that's the real root cause of all this frustration.

I also recommend to allow maximum 5 sMerits per post, this will help to reduce such abuse.


Yes, it has destroyed the dreams of account farmers and shit posters. Introduction of new ranking and merit system is a good initiative to make this forum better for the community. More such actions should be taken frequently in order to control the quality of this forum.


There are many users who are appreciating the good posts by giving the sMerits. But it has been also observed that, people who are starting the topics/threads are getting more sMerits (obviously for quality post) and its hard to get merits for the good quality posts lying in the middle of page/pages.

I suggested a sub-category of Legendary - LAMP - That is for Legendaries who have brought light to Bitcoin Talk by gaining rank via merit points, and not just from spamming ponzi schemes. :)

Of course this means that merit points need to come from peer recognition of quality contributions, and not from mates' rates.

Someone advocating full freedom of speech should not whine about low quality postings but welcome it as freedom of speech too. Supporting the merit system which in theory (but not reality) is meant to exclude a certain mode of speech means also supporting the limitation of freedom of speech. And someone considering 'I like your project' as low quality posting but 'cunt' and 'motherfucker' as high quality has seriously some loose wires.

I further explained to you before that I am supportive of the freedom for all and not the full freedom of a few restricting the freedom of many. It is that which I find frustrating, the unequality of freedom, not the difficulty of moving up.

How exactly is the merit system restricting your freedom of speech? You can still speak. May or may not get rewarded for it (if you consider merit a reward, which you seemingly don't, so that's even more confusing).

Edit: to answer OP's question - I'm rather ambivalent. Most users seem to be more concerned about reduced ability to whore out their rank than actual positive uses of this new system. Hopefully this will pass.

Yes, I really like the new system.It will make people post sincerely and also it will reduce the garbage posts amount.From now it will be a challenge for us to reach higher rank position.I wish all the members will judge honestly and give credits to the best posters.Though I saw some people are trying to sell smerits but I think they will be punished ASAP.And overall, I think it's a excellent way to make the forum beautiful.

There are basically now two systems in (ab)use. The merit system is (ab)used as a reward and the trust sytem has been (ab)used already for a long time mostly as punishment. For some posts you are (theoretically) rewarded and for other posts punished. Of course you can post whatever you want, but you will get rewarded or punished. You cannot say that the forum governance endorses freedom of speech when not all utterances are treated equally. Of course in the streets of Pyongyang you are able to call Kim Jong-un a 'cunt' and a 'motherfucker', but that doesn't mean that North-Korea endorses freedom of speech.

On your second remark: You are 'whoring out' your profile like anyone else with your signature, aren't you?

I didn't say "that the forum governance endorses freedom of speech" nor do I care. I just asked how is the merit system restricting your free speech, and it doesn't seem there is any restriction. You can still speak, you're not banned or otherwise "punished". What exactly are you still complaining about?


Uhm... what ???

Lot's of members got punished. I got punished with negative trust for instance for speaking about ignorance of Lauda's scammy nature. However the Legendaries calling me a 'cunt' and a 'motherfucker' get away with it. Lots of members have been tagged negative for 'shitposting'. You don't call that punishment?

Of course you don't care about it. You probably belong to the clique who get's away with everything.



The above.

I'm happy about it specially if there is a chance that we can have it automatically like one point every month, it is a big help also.

The question was about merits, this being a merit-related thread. How does the merit system affect your speech? You can't seem to come up with anything so I think it's safe to assume that it doesn't.


If you know who's paying for my signature let me know. They seem to have missed a few years of payments.

Does the merit system not affect the mode of speech on this forum at all according to you? Then you must agree that it is better to abolish it. For it was installed exactly with the goal to do that; affecting forum speech.


Not all 'whoring out' of signatures has direct payments involved.

Merits may affect shitposters aiming at higher ranks. It's still not a free speech issue in any conceivable way. They can still post their shit. If we follow your fallacy we should just close the forum because any rules can be twisted this way.

For example, you can still insinuate that I get paid for my signature and there is fuck all that merits can do about it.

You contradict yourself. If merits affect what you deem 'shitposting' they are affecting free speech. Besides that you are totally missing my point. I am not against restricting certain modes of posting but against the abuse of the systems that are installed. I am against the installing of special merit and trust powers at the subjectivity of a privilaged few members with lack of ethical disposition, who thus abuse those powers.


Yes, I can insinuate that and it will not affect your forum possibilities because I have no super merit or trust power. But if one of the privileged members insignuates things about me it can, and often does, have consequences for my forum possibilities, even if the insinuations are not true.

There is no contradiction. "Affect" is not the same as "prevent". Shitposters can still shitpost. I suspect some won't when they lose the financial incentive to do so. Not being paid for free speech is not the same as losing the right to free speech. To use your own example, if you stand in Times Square and yell "Trump is a cunt" you shouldn't expect to get paid for it.

You keep talking about abuse but you are failing to provide any proof of how this hypothetical abuse can prevent you from speaking out within the rules of the forum.


There you go, free speech problem solved, you can keep shitposting. Let's tackle world peace next.

And ALL newbies are spammers, right?

I don't lack ethics.  You don't see me handing out large amounts of merits to people who are financially helpful to me, do you?

No, it isn't that at all.  This whole thing was designed by the owner of the forum, as far as I know, and it's hitting noob shitposters right in their greedy fucking wallets--and I love it.  The more I recovery from my flu and the more lucid I get, the more I'm starting to really like the merit system. 

You all know I don't suffer shitposters lightly, but I'm more than happy to give out some merit points to noobies if they make a good post, and I'm making it a point to do this when I see decent posts.  What I will never give merit points for are those generic "bitcoin is a digital currency that change my life...." shitposts that I've seen all too often.  If the merit system does absolutely nothing else, I think it'll eliminate those.  I'm hoping, anyway.

The reason I'm smiling along with TMAN is that I don't have to neg the shitposters anymore.  I was never comfortable with using the trust system to do that, but as hilariousandco pointed out, it was one of the only weapons we had.  I'm happy these days.

i think the current system is good and also helpful. JUst come to think of it as something that will rid the system from fake accounts and also those trying to abuse it. for me, I will give it a try, and for sure the admins and moderators are more than happy and willing to make minor tweaks on the system for the betterment of all the users. Observe and you will find a sudden decrease in the activities of some users.

Thanks for your answer on my thread. Did you already answer the vote too?

I agree with you, there are many users who don't know the uses and potential of this system because they fear they wont rank up and disturb their earning on this forum. I wont be a hypocrite by telling I'm here not for the money, I do, but with this system, the forum will be a place full of people who work hard and good for getting money (at least if they re here for money).

I will make the infographic after I reach 100 votes, and will share some statistic and conclusion based on my thread, and will post it here and in theymos' merit thread.

Well I feel more challenged about the merit system, it make people here in forum to give quality post and eliminate those who are doing spam messages. As for me I like it, it have good intentions why it's made. Looking forward for the success of this new system and that this forum will be pool of helpful information about cryptocurrency.

A recent example can be found here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2829282). But there are plenty of other examples brought to the fore by others. But as soon as such cases are posted the established members tightly close their eyes, put fingers in their ears ears, and start stamping their feet, yelling; 'not true, not true, you cunt, motherfucker, shitposter'!


I repeat that I am not against restriction of speech but against the abuse of the systems that are installed for that restriction. Is it on purpose or simple lack of intelligence that you seem to keep missing that point while I post it so explicitly?


Although I found your signature text suspicious I have not seen any disgusting abuse of trust or merit power by you. Thus you may feel non-included when I speak about "privilaged few members with lack of ethical disposition, who thus abuse those powers" and feel included in 'the privilaged few members without lack of ethical disposition, who thus don't abuse those powers'.

But we all know to which respectless members I refer. Do you really want me to mention them one by one? They indeed treat all newbies as spammers and all non-friends as scammers, handing out negative taggs by the dozens, guilty or not.


Nonsence. You've abused the trust system and loved it! Not to speak about the contempt and disrespect you show to other members with your faul language. You would definately be in the list of abusers I talked about above.

Maybe no one really gives a shit about your personal vendettas and this is certainly not the topic for that.

Seeing how you're already halfway through your rank-up just by being your genuine asshole self - I think you're defeating your own crusade.


Yes, I added my vote.

Just what I thought. You too belong to the selected group with a very unclean inner hygiene.  :D

But I do think you are a special kind of cunt. One who probably hangs with all other account farmers, shitposters and general wastes of HDD space.

You are moaning and moaning about Lauda/DT/Merits... why? Probably because you have 10 accounts and are earning the average monthly wage in a week where you are from... but now that is changing.. you don't like it so you get all cunty and pissy and attack everything. So enjoy your posts as you are going on ignore again cunty

And there's plenty more filth at the source of that choice of words...

I agree with you. Seems that all people who is trash talking, feel pessimistic and negative thinking about this system indeed are the account farmer, spammer, etc. Just imagine if we got 10 full member account, 0.005 btc x 10 = 0.05. It is a lot of money per week, that is why they re afraid of this system because they can not earn easily right now or later.

People like this should know, instead of talking bad about this system and suggesting to erase this system, it is better if they learning, making a strategy, and taking their game to an upper level. So in the end, they will get a merit they are looking for.

I get that everyone likes/dislikes the system for whatever reason. I also understand that some of you have known each other a while and have had interactions resulting in emotions.

What I don't get is (supposedly) intelligent people acting like they're in a schoolyard.

Sheesh.

The idea is excellent, and who cares if it will slow down ranking. The only really annoying thing is that merits have not been given proportionally to activity, a choice which has created too many injustices.

I don't know wat should I feel I became a men without any single token in my wallet and its hard for a rookie like us to  think that a hard way to rank up become more hard  but we can't do nothing cause  this is the rules don't break the law of this forum or else got banned

And those kids have been given the responsibility of trust and merit moderation. Fire in the hands of toddlers.

I am a newbie and i am not a spammer..  :( :(  I always try to help people with my current cryptocurrency knowledge.. But it is very hard to get merits  :-\ :-\  I want only two more to be a junior member. I am disappointed about merit system.. Yes you should ban or limit spammers but not in this way   :-\ :-\ :-\

Keep going on the good work and the merits will come to you. It is only 1 week since the system was implemented, so give it a time. In the span time, you need to learn much more, learn English, and other things needed.
If you want to gain merits, you can also try it here, it is a thread which has lists of thread that giving out merits if you do some good post. Hope you can achieve it.




Meanwhile, I already got 100 votes. I will make some infographic and data concluded from this thread. So I am locking the poll for now. Thanks guys !

I had miss understood the merit system and thought ranks are increased based only on merit now.. But i came to know both activity and merit  matters.

Thank you for the advice  :) :) :) I'll keep up the good work and see what happens  :) :) :)

Merit system is very useful to reduce spammers
But the current merit system is not clear, because it is only suitable for people who know each other, they benefit each other
Many good writings are not rewarded
If I can propose, the merit system, should be direct from the moderator

My thought exactly. If you are on your own (not in a group) the chances for your post to get any merit are close to 0.
If you are in a group (of friends, acquaintances etc) then you will get merit points for most of your posts, regardless of their usefulness.
If you have a horde of clones ... well ... then it is even easier :D.

However i don't think a moderator can do this job alone. There are simply too many posts.

Wrong. Newbies become Juniors with no need of merits. And Juniors need only 10 merits (versus 60 activity) to become Members. The problem begins with Members who need 100 merits (versus 120 activity) to become Full Members, and escalates with Full members ho need 250 merits (versus 240 activity) to become senior Members, and so on. Since it is easier to rise your activity than your merits, the whole ranking up process will be considerably slowed down. Which probably is not such a bad thing, especially as the bad posters will never rank up at all, so in the whole the landscape of the forum should improve in time.

I think the new system is alright. I mean I see the point. I'm new to this forum and even I noticed the two-line posts in broken English some users spam all over the place for the sake of getting their activity count up or because of ICOs. I hope it reduces the amount of pointless chatter and encourages people to put some thought into their posts. That being said it's definitely true that it's exponentially harder for new users to get merit than for established users but I suspect there's little else you can do to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I really dislike this new system, because who really determines a shitpost? what might be a shitpost to one person might not be the same to another, i was more comfortable with the banning of accounts when a user spams the forum, This merit system to me is flawed really, no offence Moderator. But is there no better way to go about dealing with spammers than this new merit system?

At some point in my observation that the quality of posts is getting better. Yes we are all for getting merit, this is great for improving the quality of chat in forums. In the short term this all looks good and we are currently just waiting for what happens in the long term going forward. I'm sure this will have a major impact on the understanding of bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Sistem baru sistem yang banyak di diskusikan banyak hal dalam meningkatkan peringkat ke jenjang selanjutnya, agar lebih jeli lagi dalam kualitas posting..

I am very new to this forum so I cannot say much about the new change. I think with time everyone will get used to this new system.

OP guess I owe you an apology, turns out that your work is decent even if your way of gathering the data needs some work..

So I am sorry for jumping the gun and assuming the worst, but it seems you are the exception to the rule.

I don't care about activity points, ranks, or these new merits points to be honest. I don't limit my judgment on the quality of a member on these artificially created merits. All that matters to me is the quality of your posts.

Thanks TMAN, it is okay, i didnt take anything from what you ve said before, if i did, maybe i wont gather this data. I just want to look about this merit point from the perspective of the user's feeling. Just want to see how they feel about it in the early and how they feel about it later after a few months. So later i can make some conclusion again for the future.

And maybe you can invite your friends to look at the statistic and give comment or suggestion.

Merit system is good but gaining merit for higher rank is not justified. Because most of us not only learn every thing about crypto from Bitcointalk also learn what to write and how to write about crypto from Bitcointalk. Now we are thinking the new comers will come on Bitcointalk after learn everything about crypto and must write high quality post.
This is not justified for newcomers. There is already provision on Bitcointalk for deleting irrelevant and spam post and block the member after some warning.
Merit system is good but linking for higher rank is not justified.

Well from my data which i gathered from this thread, there are some low rank members ( newbie, jr. member, and member) that is happy with merit system and not afraid to compete with others. If some of them (57%) can say they are happy, then i guess they wont leave the forum, but unfortunately some other (43%) do not happy about them and there is a chance that they will leave the forum. But when the system running properly, i guess they wont even talk about it in the future how they trash this system in the early time of the implementation.

Most people seem to be ignoring the main and positive purpose of the merit system:  It gives appreciation and encouragement to good posters.

The whiners are exactly the ones who should go away.

Signed,

A user who ranked up from Jr. Member to Member on 30 January, and thus started with zero merit.

Yeah, and most of them people is at the "low member ranks" category according to the statistic i gathered. But Some of it (57%, 16 people i count on this thread) are happy with the system because they agree with the system which can make a better forum and encourage good posters.
There is a better option for the whiners rather than leaving, which is to realize that this is the good system and should be embraced by him/her and start learning and doing something good for the better oh him/her.

By the way, congratz man, 187 merits wow, thats a good achievement.

 

   Its unfair!but for the sake of promoting quality posting and provide order for the future campaign i agreed..

But to a sig spammer it's the opposite. They don't care about quality of posts, just hitting the highest rank they can as fast as they can with the lowest amount of effort possible. That's why merit should hopefully change this culture because making shitposts will get you nowhere pretty fast.


You're making great posts and people like you will have no issue in 'ranking' up. It's just the lazies who got used to being able to fly through ranks just by posting the most generic of shitposts that are going to have great problems. If only they could be bothered putting the same amount of effort they do for the whining about the merit system into the regular posts they'd be no issue at all.

I like theymos' purpose for implementing this kind of new system and I think this will be very effective in the long run because each one of us are now forced to make good quality posts instead of unsubstantial one, this will definitely result to a better environment here in the forum.

But honestly, I have a concern. I'm a little bit worried knowing the fact that I will not rank even though we assume that I already meet/exceed the minimum activities required. We can conclude that rank ups will now depend on merits and I'm very sad about it because becoming a Sr. Member seems so far for me to reach.

Anyway, this system undergone a lot of process before implemented so who am I to question it? I still would love to embrace this new system since its advantages still outnumbered the disadvantages. :)

I agree that merit will encourage people to make some good posts later. But by the way, is it for me or nullius? just wondering hahaha
Please do take a look at my infographic that i made in the first post.

The thing is that with the merit system in place, even if you create quality posts (or at least not useless spam and using proper English in them) people are either not used to sending merit yet or they don't really send merit even if they find your post useful.

I have been a member on this forum for about 3-4 months but I have not received any merit for the posts I have created directly. I have received some merit from an anti-spam campaign but none for any of my posts.

I am not a spammer or do not create posts just for the sake of it. I just wanted to be able to link my signature to a post on this forum advertising my service, which I cannot do because of the rank I currently have.

What do you think? Is this merit system fair for my case?

See if you want to get a privilege associated with higher rank (signature in this case), you need to work for it. I checked your posts and some of them are really good. You will easily become a member if you keep making such posts.

Thanks for the merit BTW :)

Yes, I agree but the thing is, you will not receive any merit points for your direct posts. I have only received merits when posting in this sub forum (when people have looked at my posts). Even the more established members that can make a difference (like mods, admins etc.) received very low amounts of merit points.

I have done well researched posts or helped out other guys that had issues with mining for example. None of them sent me any merit although the information was used or they thanked me (it seems like it's easier for them to thank me than send me merit :) ).
Using this merit approach will not work for good faith users that post good quality and are not spammers. That's why I think this system isn't working.

I think I will make the remaining 3 merits to get to member status in the next months (hopefully) but will definitely be stuck here for many years until I reach 100.

My opinion is that this system is just a measure of limiting users from acquiring rank to give the current established members more rights than the other folks.
I even named it a "Trumpish" system in another thread because it's kinda like what's happening in the US right now, immigration wise. :)

Try getting 100 merits for reaching a Full Membership ranking.  :D You'll have to be some kind of Einstein or Mother Theresa to gain such amounts of merits. Or somehow get sucked up into the group of scam moderators. That probably works best around here.  ::)

But it's no use complaining about it. Because the merit system was not designed to merit posts in the first place but rather to keep members from reaching higher rankings. And for that it is doing it's job wonderfully.

Yes, I agree none of the new accounts will get higher than Member rank on this forum. It will be an exclusive club and that's it.

I see a lot of people with high ranks saying they "do not care" of the ranking system but they all participate in signature campaigns. How hypocritical of them :)

No. It's to stop shitposters shitposting their way through the ranks. Now making unsubstantial posts will get you nowhere. If you don't have anything interesting to contribute then you will find yourself going nowhere fast. This is the only way to prohibit low-quality posters and reward people who are here to actually contribute something worthwhile.


Plenty of people will achieve their rank, just as long as they're a great poster. The only "exclusive" club it will be is for people who who can contribute something worthwhile. The only people complaining about it will be those who either can't speak English sufficiently or people who just can't be bothered putting the effort into their posts.

I don't think you can make generlisations like that. One of the disadvantages of sig campaigns is that affiliates become prolific posters. There are a lot of good and valuable members here, and they aren't all in sig campaigns.

http://bigsig.com/s/jet-sig.png

Yes, I agree the shit posting needs to stop but I am talking about the people that are not making shit posts and will never exceed the Member status with this system.
Like I said above, people do not send Merits, even if you help them or post constructivly.


I see a lot of sr/hero/legendary members that do not use proper English in their posts. How is this fair? What contributions did they bring?

With the old system, an active poster would reach Full Member status in about 3 months. Let's assume it's about a good poster that tries to bring value to this forum. With the new system, reaching the same status will take years (at least 5).

For example I try to do quality posts and help out where I can but have not received ANY merits for my posts directly. I am by no means a great poster, I would like to think I'm average, but definitely not a spammer. So, something is definitely not working with this system.

I still hope this system will be changed and the intent wasn't about creating a closed group. Not giving everybody the same opportunities will lead to people moving on to other forums or just keeping those ideas to themselves and not sharing, because they're fine with just reading.

I have also proposed some alternatives: new ranks on top of legendary or a "likes" system that is easier to use and is not limited to the amount of sMerit you have. Check my posts in this sub forum.

That only for privileged few people is good. I totally write in every topic about @MERIT SYSTEM@ and got only true answers from legendaries and sr.members that so everything is good but only from them :D

Correct. A Bitcointalk fork is being prepared already by a group of members who are fed up with the Lauda gang.

yes you are right, i see so many posts that i think constructive
but do not get merit, while the post that I consider ordinary get merit
now the jr member account will forever become jr member, will never rise to become a member ::)

Of course, this has been tried many times in the past already.  If you guys are going to openly invite scammers and spammers, it will be interesting to see how your forum handles them.

I have read the posts of Nullius and they are indeed extremely good. But he is an exception. The system should work for a decent majority, not only for the truly excellent ones. "people like you" you say, but there are a very few like Nullius, if at all. If only the truly excellent ones can "rank up", then you don't even need this system, you just can pick up that dozen people who is really excellent and give them a Legendary ad honorem rank and that's it. The system should allow a decent majority (or a decent minority) to rank up as if nothing had changed, and just put limits for the indecent minority (or indecent majority). There is still time to improve the system so that this is achieved.

Hahaha it's true I hope that guy will be banned for promotion their scam projects.  That one of some dirty stories about this persone and their group https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1764757.0 :D

Yeah, the Lauda gang is fearsome.  I thought I was tough enough to survive a “beat-in” for the secret initiation, so I tried to join.  It turns out, Lauda does worse:  A “scratch-in” by cats!  I’m still bleeding from that; and worst of all, they decided that I was too wimpy.  At least they didn’t feed me to the lion—I’m thankful for that, but could Lauda be going soft?

---

In the manner of discovering THE TRUTH!!! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2612664.0), I myself have a pet theory that the merit system is designed as a weapon against Roger Ver’s .com forum playpen.  When all the spammers and trash posters leave, where will they go?  Hahah.

---

I’m glad you appreciate my posts.  But what you say brings to mind something pertinent which has been sitting in my drafts pile for a few days.  The relevant part is that to “rank up”, it’s not necessary to earn merit at anywhere close to the rate I do.  I can often earn +20–30 per day.  Comparing merit and activity thresholds for rank, the system seems designed with an expectation that an ordinary, decent poster will earn on average about +1 per day.  That sounds reasonable, does it not?

---

Much obliged.  And yes, I’ve oftentimes wondered about the cost/benefit analysis (not) done by certain people.  The same applies much more strongly for those who sometimes expend extreme efforts trying to gain money or advantage by gutter methods such as spamming, rather than putting less effort into achieving reasonable success by decent means.  But I suppose that here, some people are of a religious belief that divine law entitles them to make money by posting generic one-liners with a signature attached from farmloads of sockpuppet accounts.  How else could the vehemence of their reactions be explained?  Well, too bad for them that there is such intolerance of their religion.

---

Not good enough.  So in the seven days since you wrote that, I’ve added another 113 merits—to get myself started. <g>

---

100 merits is no problem.  I earned an additional 113 merits just since I last posted in this thread a week ago.  Here is a recent statistical breakdown of where I’m earning my merit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2876160.msg30031564#msg30031564).  Dividing out one extraordinary event I don’t deem representative of how merit is earned, the largest proportion of my merit has come from technical posts in Development & Technical Discussion.  But on the other hand, I’ve also oft been deemed meritorious for my vocal support of people who are making an heroic effort to clean up the forum.  —Oops, I meant for “somehow [getting] sucked up into the group of scam moderators.”  So, how would you characterize me?


Correction:  It’s no use whining.  Likewise, it is no use concocting absurd theories.  Meritorious posts earn merit.  For example, one of my highest-merited posts, “Bitcoin’s Public-Key Security Level” (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2859033.msg29345381#msg29345381), is currently +18 (including +5 from the tech forum moderator).  Make good posts, and you will earn merit—or don’t, and you won’t.

(I will not even ask what motive theymos is imagined to have for nefariously designing a system to “keep [thoughtfully contributing] members from reaching higher rankings”.  Important words are here inserted.  Logically, if theymos wanted to freeze everybody’s ranks, he could do that much more easily.  Whereas the merit system separates the wheat from the tares; yes, it is designed to stop spammers and morons from rising in rank.)

---

Let’s see:  You created your very own whine thread, declaring a “right to consensus” and demanding that the merit system be put to a “general vote” (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2856179.0).  Having succeeded in bringing yourself attention, you got caught by TheQuin passing yourself merit from an alt (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2856179.msg29381297#msg29381297) and red-tagged by Lauda (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2856179.msg29391631#msg29391631).  Whereupon you promptly diverged into crazyland:  “Maybe [actmyname] and Lauda it's one persone?” (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2856179.msg29408444#msg29408444)  (Hahahah (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2612664.0).)

Whining and blustering has worked so well for you in the past.  Keep it up to keep getting the same results!

Well i feel challenge in this new system and try to learn more about bitcointalk to get more merits.They implement this merit system to avoid spammers and shitposting on forum and I am glad that I am pursuing myself to know more about crypto.

Hey buddy, If you think they didnt contribute at all, just think about their time, energy, etc that is spent on this forum long before bitcoin has a good price, has a signature payment for this forum, and has a big name like now. They did a great job to spent their time and energy thus creating a “traffic” to this forum, and you think that is not a contribution? You dont even contribute a bit of your energy and time to search bitcoin back then when you thought it was a scam in the early year of bitcoin. If there are no early people who “plays” in this forum, i guess you wouldnt be here to get money for doing signature/bounty/etc.


For that amount of merits and you said it is not good enough? Man thats a good positivity you have there. Getting merits over our great posts indeed is a great feeling. I got some too in this week and i hope it will continue in the future.
Meanwhile i have a nice idea for my next thread, will finish it soon after my other work is done. It will involve some statistics again and i hope it can changes people to be more positive on this merit system.

"Buddy", do you mean it was enough for them to just create traffic for the almost 1.5 years needed to reach the hero rank before the merit system was implemented by shit posting? What do you think they contributed with other than "traffic"? It's not like bitcoin is just 1.5y old and they were pioneers, right?

How is this fair?

It is not me, but if I were to handle scammers at a forum it would be from clear set rules, honestly and objectively moderated by ethically mature moderators. Not though terror by a hypocritical low-ethics gang who scam themselves the hell out of the forum.

I like to think of myself as a honest and ethically mature member.  Do you have examples where I haven't been?

I'm starting to feel comfortable with the new merit system. I think I may be wrong in restricting awards to single points - it may be better to have a range between one and five. I suspect that my judgement was coloured by the fact that I only had a few sMerit to award, so I tended to be a bit sparing in giving them out.

http://bigsig.com/s/jet-sig.png

I have plenty of examples where members like Lauda, actmyname and The Pharmacist haven't been.

When you decide to have a moderating system based on subjective judgements (as is the case with the trust and merit systems) then you need to give the power in the hands of ethical mature members. When there are ethical immature members, as the ones mentioned above, you should either withhold them power or establish objective rules to which the moderators too must comply. Otherwise you'll get the pirate hole this forum is at present.

The trouble with your "ethical mature" system is that you're an immature whiny demagogue yourself so that kinda makes your idealistic scheme DOA. But by all means - let us know once your new ideal forum is up and running. I would love to see who those mature members are.

It would definately not be you. Even objective members rebuked you for your childish posts.  :D

It sound absolutely reasonable. I couldn't agree more. The day when every ordinary, decent poster (we are not speaking about the few excellent ones) will naturally get on average one merit a day or so (or a bit less, or bit more, of course), then the merit system will have perfectly succeeded in its mission. In fact listening to theymos it was designed for achieving this result. And I would already be happy the moment it would reach even half of that success.

I feel like being intimidated with some other members with higher rank and higher merits though I am not taking the new system as negative impact of those who are newbie like me. I was able to take the system positively that somehow I realized that these could be good to promote healthier system in bitcoin to avoid spammers and posting comments which are relatively poorly constructed. Anyway, since that it is being implemented I suggest that a newbie like me could also have a readily points of smerits so whenever we could read some informative facts on this forum we could help putting merits to those commendable post. I think it would be better that way so that newbie could give merits to the newbie also. I think in that areas it could be fair enough for all the members here in the forum.

I just came across this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2927993.msg30066577#msg30066577) and was amazed that this guy actually got 8 merits (!?!?!) (more than I have right now trying to do good quality posts & help people out - isn't this the whole point of a forum/community?).

This is a perfect example of what I was saying earlier about shit posters that are sr/hero/legendary members and they now have a "privileged" status compared to other newer members that want to help out and try to create good quality/positive posts. The interesting thing, that I did not think can happen, is that they also receive merits for it.... Come on...

Is this the path we want to take?

I gave you 2 merits for that post, so now you have one sMerit to give away. Use it wisely. :) With this potential award, you can see the difficulty that we have in choosing who to award merits. Don't give it to the first post you see, but give it to the best one in your opinion.

You ain't seen nothing yet. Some forum gang member got 100+ merit only for calling someone a butthurt idiot.

And yes; that's the chosen path the forum is walking. Unfortunately.

OMG... I cannot believe this... I had so high hopes for this forum...
I think I'm seeing a pattern here, hope I'm wrong, but will wait to see how it's going to play out ;)

I honestly do not like the merit system a bit, because many other members who do not give awards to other members, of course other members also try to get it, especially to new members who merit his 0 or a little.

What is the idea of Merit by your opinion? Moderators announced it like the weapon of fighting against of shitposters, in a short word. So, by the idea only quality posts deserve a Merit. Don't want to hurt you, but I would not call this post as quality one. You simply told that you miss 250 merits to raise as member, so me too. I do not envy that somebody sent you merits for this conplainment and mine satyed without attention at all. The point of my talk is that the idea of merit, no matter how good it planned to be, doesn't work exactly as moderators thought. Simply people stay merits to whom they wish and the quality of posts doesn't play any role here. That's my opinion.

not that happy, but i guess it better than the merit is not implemented. btt users now will make their post better and mostly helpful and to improve also the development of this community, also, to avoid useless topic and spammers. others will find it hard but later on they can adopt to this new merit system.

Merit system is great for changing members to make better posts. But this system does not work well for some members, it seems that some do not care about newbie who make good post, only in riview there is no trace or just a sign of appreciation. the higher ranking should take a bit of time to see newbie posts that also want to get merit. because all the members want to go forward with the merit system or this new rule. hopefully in the future we can advance the world of cryptocurrency together.

I think its a smart move to avoid low quality posters from spamming their way up to their desired rank and it reduces the work of moderators in deleting useless posts, a task that is definitely time consuming. The merit system really justifies those who are usually taking their time to construct high quality posts, worthy of moving up to the next rank though for me, the merit system really is difficult because of the fact that ranking up will rely on those who will give you merits.

Yes there should be something to make difference between shitposters and quality posters.
I saw those low rank people who everyday tried to make quality posts. as they are still not good right now. But they try their best. oneday they will get the credit of this. If they don't give it up.
Merit system give something to explore.
 As i personally started to look different topic other than bitcoin discussion. Everyday i learn something new. As it may not be of that quality.
But i will not give up.
 Hats off to merit system.

I feel neutral with the new system. I'm happy in a way that this may help reduce posts that are non-sense and people that keep on spamming. The new system is also good to avoid topics with no sense. I feel sad in a way that we will have to wait for our merit to increase before we could rank up, merits we receive really depends on other people, not all people give merits on a daily or usual basis, it might depend on luck or their time for us to give merits.

I come up into this BTC community with that system implemented already,I have no choice but to accept the rules and take the challenged,I was affected but still I am happy because I believe that this system will make the community stronger and have a better future.

I was not happy because ranking up will become too slow, but on the other side it was largely help to crypto currency industry to prevent shitposter. There's a lot of users were in the higher ranked but low post quality, merit is now was the basis of ranking up, hopefully that gaining merit will become much easier compared to activity.

The merit system will work only if the people in this forum generous enough to give merits to quality posts.
Without that all of us low rank members are just looking trough the window of a bitcointalk party without having
us invited. I am not against this system because I myself did mostly post spam posts in the beginning but after joining
a campaign and learning that if you bring value to this forum brings you also money things changed.
I think most people stop posting spam posts the moment they get in to a campaign.

You really know that this merit is great for the future of this forum, you should embrace it. Learn the basic things for the forum which is english, it will gives you benefit in the forum and in real life too. And no, joining campaign wont stop people from spamming, they will keep spamming words that sometimes off-topic, repeatable answer, etc, just to fulfill the requirement to get the payment.


To make it easy for you, try to make a great and on topic post and engage with other, aim for quality not quantity, a newbie users just need to score 1 merit daily if he/she wants to rank up normally. I hope people can score 1 per day.


Like i said in the upper answer, you just need to score 1 merit daily, hope you can make it.

I already expressed my thoughts in TMAN's challenge thread, but I will try to sum it up here as well.
1) For new members merit is mostly given in the meta section, judging by my own experience, which is not how it is supposed to be in my opinion.
2) Most merit give away threads are just an ego trip for the topic starter and a chance to say to most people "I don't like you, I'm king here and decide to give you something or not". 90 % of people who participate in such threads get nothing (according to my experience).  Considering that a Jr. member needs 10 merits to become full member this is just a way for senior members to bully around the juniors. Does not solve the problem of good posters getting 0 merits.
3) Alt accounts made by older accounts are created "a dime a dozen", while real people are really struggling to reach any kind of status on the forum. Don't believe me? Read the alt-reports thread, it's very long.
4) I believe real people should have no problem making it to at least member status - full member status. The current system makes it next to impossible, unless you have an old account with a zillion merits.
5) The way merit is given is just...well...sad. This forum is about bitcoins, not an English literature class. Seriously, the way merit should be given (my opinion which complies with the forum rules): a) the post must be on the subject b) the post makes some sense in expressing the thoughts of the author c) the post is contributive to the discussion/topic. Wrote something that complies with that? You should get a single merit for that alone.
6) The system would work if there was a bot handing out merits according to the point above, but there is not a single one doing that. More to that, there is just not enough people with merit who give them out according to some objective rules, rather than my point 2 above.
I'm still thinking on how this merit system should be revamped. I will try to think about it, sum it up and propose a constructive merit system change.
 

I dont like the idea of merit system it so unfair to other to rank up it limit the ability of new here in forum how can they focus here if they know there barrier that will stop because the system has no guidline it easy to say write or comment good post to get merit i already research here no one can explain exactly what the right to do yo get merit

And they should keep posting spam posts:

1) If they are not a part of a campaign.
2) If the campaign gets over and till they are accepted in another campaign

What type of suggestion is this ? I can understand that a new member might not be aware about the rules of the forum or the requirements for being eligible for bounties. But maximum 30 days is sufficient for getting used to the forum. If you keep making shit posts even after this, strict action must be taken by the staff as it hampers the forum quality.

Thank you! Girl power!

I was relieve when merit system started, because numbers of shit posters and spammers were lessen in bitcointalk. Aside on that most of the posts now I read had a lot of knowledge and very helpful, also more participants of this site are starting to make high quality of post. Now we can see the large improvement of the many users, so be thankful to theymos for making this system.
I believe that evolution of posts will happen in this community, because more people are wants to excel and grow up in this site.

I think easy or lousy system that applied it depends on us who live it if we mind that Miret system for our goodness all is sure System is good dijalaninya, all the rules are not easy that every business work there must be hard-earned to get maximum results but it all depends how to respond....!!!!

Its unfair, especially for a new comer like me, i always try to write a good post and done some research before i post, but no one gives me merit anyway. If one merit is too hard to earn then how am i gonna get a hundreds to rank up my account? I think merit system should not be given by member of the forum, it should be given only by moderator. Its less spam with this merit system, i do agree.

You aren't going to be earning merits if you were to post something that has been repeated many many times over the thread or you hasn't been constructive to the topic.

You do realise you would probably never get the merits if it were to be given by only mods right? The current implementation kind of gives the community their rights to decide what is constructive and what isn't.

Even by many people you still not getting any merit, why would you think you will get some if only a couple of people (mods) that can give merits? And other thing to consider is that there are too many people and posts for couple of mods to handle, and like  ranochigo said, it would be impossible to get merit if only mods can give them.

The rating system disappointed me. Today 2 hours of work in Photoshop, creating content. As a result, he drowned in spam and I did not receive any feedback. It's horrible. :'(

This is a crypto site, and not a site for content producers. That is why I suggested a Steemit board.

I have been looking to your idea on getting a board of steemit and i must say that is a great idea, since not only it is a near/related coin to bitcoin but people there also use Dtube, a decentralized video platform to host their video content. So since merit is forcing people here to make a good content about crypto, i guess it can and will work well if we have one board for steemit.

And sadly, i forgot my steemit password.

It is necessary to create a topic and participants send their works, and the jury selected quality ones. It will be interesting and fair! :)

Were you born yesterday? Such threads exist like from the most beggining of Merit, soon for 2 months, take a look in Servises section  ;)
At first I also was trying to protest against this new system, counted it unfair and so on. Surly, cause of I've reached Sr. Member rank by activity few days after Merit system was announced. But with time I understood that all suggestions about "improving" of merit, in other words to make receive of merit more easy, in vane. Nothing is going to be changed. That's fact.

The merit system is good because from it we become more cautious on what we are posting. Its also a way to improve our post and make it constructive and useful enough to the readers. However, its quite disappointing because there are some users who were able to post constructive topics but are not meritted. Are there still smerit holders out there that are patient enough to give time to read those quality posts? Im just hoping that users be able to get merit equally because on what i have observed, there are some posts that were meritted even if its not useful. I dont know why?

Alright, maybe something like this was necessary, but this is quiet a big ladder to climb if you are new to the forum, either way it's the forum rule and we all are trying to add value to the forum and people within.

I do hope that one day, someday we all embrace it and live with it.

I feel the new system is a good approach towards maintaining the sole aim of the forum. If this system never came at this moment, the forum could've lost it's flavour and it will be all just for making money purposes and no one will really care about posting useful thoughts to aid learning and knowledge acquisition.

Happy, I think this is very helpful for beginners to become a professional poster starting from :
  ==> Understanding,
  ==> Learn, and
  ==> Action.
We as Bitcointalk members will be encouraged to make useful postings that can help others when trouble finds the right answers. Vote results up to now it turns out that more don't like this merit system, the reason may be lazy to think.

Though It's too late for me to reply to this thread, would be happy to share my emotions via words here.  I appreciate this new system created to eradicate few things like we say shit posting, spaming and etc. Lot has changed since then the way post are made.  Posts are turning to be quality ones.  

Bad, because there are no demerits.

I don't think we really need a demerit system.  Given enough time, what was put in place just about two months ago will work.  Because sMerits "decay" as they're being given out, I think eventually what gets distributed is all going to be in the hands of merit sources and those users who actually earned them via good posting.  And when that happens, there won't be as much merit being bought, sold, or traded between friends & alt accounts.  That's my hope, anyway.  It sure is an interesting thing to watch unfold, and as I've said before I have seen improvement in people's posts, if not a reduction in the number of shitposts. 

The shitposters just haven't figured out yet that they're not going to be ranking up in their lifetimes, but they will eventually.  A human being can only delude himself for so long before reality starts smacking its W tackle up against that human being's face.  Not even these idiots can fool themselves forever.

The merit system does seem to be making quite a difference. It is now possible to find decent threads in some of the boards that were swamped before.

There does seem to be an increase in necro-bumping though. I'm not sure if it is just more visible, or if new members are using this as a new vehicle for their spamming. I've also noticed some posts that are just quotes with no comments, and I wonder if this is a new tactic by the non English speakers.

I like these words saying by Pharma, yes they still in their rank and stuck in what rank they are if they not trying hard to post a good quality post. Then an idiot people did not learn on this forum they also not have a chance to have even a single smerit.

I also admitted by my self if I belong to them, maybe I also an idiot person because I still stuck up in member rank and don't have a chance to rank up but I don't care it is enough for me at least I help to share my thought in forum, the best thing is I won't fool my self. And I was happy on that even though I got a small profit. This is not my source of income and I have a decent job outside.

Why is that bad ? Members are already complaining about lack of merits or insufficient merits and you want something that can be used to reduce the merits obtained. I do not think that we need demerit option. A member who is posting shit content here will not get merits and feel discouraged anyway. Not giving merits to a shit post is also a punishment for the member.

I love it.

Simple question, simple answer!

The whiners are evidence that the system is working.

Good system brought to the screen to avoid posts that are spam and shit posts which do not support the forum and its community in any means. I would observe quality posts around avoiding section where shit posts and spam. This at last gives a satisfaction in contributing best to the forum whether the posts receives merit of not.

First of all, it must be mentioned that nothing is perfect, and that every system has qualities and deffects. After all, it is the fruit of the work of human beings and not of the gods. So let s stop attacking the administrators if bitcointalk because there is no one in this forum who want the best for the forum more than these people.

Finally, in my opinion, the merit system is very good since it decreases the number of spammers and also approves the quality of posts.

Its kind of hard to get merit specially if youre just depending on your own understanding of acquiring merits. But overall, merit system is good and useful. Thanks to it still.

Totally agree. Another point is that demerit system (if implemented in the future) might result in massive abusements in the forum, like trust system. Strict users (mostly higher-ranked) might tend to be hate by lower-ranked, and of course other high-ranked users (who are spammers fortunately ranked up to high ranks mainly due to old ranking system of the forum), and will be under high risk of demerit abusements.

I think the fact that they had to close the list of people abusing the merit system (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2823221.0) is evidence that it is a complete failure that only benefits those that cheat and those of high ranks. I always thought it was just a cynical way for senior members to protect their turf.

The system has been of help. The system is quite cool.

I a still not happy about it until now, but what can I do? Just go on with the flow and wait until somebody notices me.

Some members of this forum say that merits system are favor for those who are higher rank that did not covered the new implementtion. But for me this merit system are quite good because everyone challenge to create a quality post. And making it reliable to this forum. Although I have no merits at all I pursue to make my post as quality post. 

Based on the votes, I see that there are a lot of members that are very unhappy about the merit system. LOL, they are just like that because they realized that they will never rank up again considering the spammer/shitposter they are.
In my case, I am happy with these system although it will take me some time to rank up. I feel challenged to earn merit so I will be obliged to put in more efforts and thoughts about my posts.

i think the new system help everyone active more active.

Brilliant, short but sweet and a million miles from a shitpost.. I am sure the shitposters will moan when that gets merit!

I do not like this system.
because we want to earn btc too.
As a newbie here joining the signature campaign is the only one we know today to earn.
We cannot join the signature camp, because the basis today is merit.
besides its hard to rank up
then it's hard to get merit too.
But anyway I just share my opinion.
That's life.

I'm not happy nor sad about the merit system, and I know it's not about the issue of shitposting, because I still it, especially on altcoins announcement section.

I know my suggestions are not needed, but I hope the authorities could reach them:

1. Add more ranks after legendary, so every merits of legendary members will be useful.
2. Remove merit system on brand new to full member or senior member ranks, I believe these names are associated with how long they've been active.
3. Remove activity, why bother showing it if it's all about merit?
4. I believe it's also about bounty abusers, I would like to suggest to do a KYM (know your member) on all of the members of this forum. This may easily stop bounty abusers and SCAM ICOs too!

Then what's the sense of implementing the merit system if you want it to be removed from those ranks? It is basically intended for shitposters/spammers/low ranking members that are creating useless content in the forum so that they will have a hard time ranking up and will be obliged to make an effort and though to their posts.

LOL. if the activity would be removed then a new account can either rank up to Member or Full Member in just a day or two.

This would be very hard to implement in the altcoin campaigns as hundreds of participants are joining every one of them. The best thing to do is implement a merit-based application where participants will not be accepted unless they have the specific merit required to participate.

I'm starting to feel comfortable with the new merit system. I think I may be wrong in restricting awards to single points - it may be better to have a range between one and five. I suspect that my judgement was coloured by the fact that I only had a few sMerit to award, so I tended to be a bit sparing in giving them out.

As you see guys, 46% doesn't feels happy. What does this means to your mind?
This means that we have very poor and uneducated auditory because the main reason behind their unhappiness is Merit - main factor which affects their rank to participate in signature campaign.
That's very sad fact..

You're a newbie. You DO have only a few sMerit to award!

I'm not happy about the merit system because you can't rank even though you tried your best creating quality post. I have no choice but to follow this system as this system will improve this forum and the users would try their best create a better future. You may not see the result of this merit system but it actuakly help us and this forum it also the way of preventing bots account to rank up by just using a program to automatically ahit post. We all know that there bots in bitcointalk forum.

Maybe your best is not good enough. I mean, I'm frustrated with myself too because I feel like I'm putting a lot of effort in my posts but it seems that it is not taking me anywhere. So what I did is, I evaluated my posts and came to the conclusion that they are not good enough if I were to put my shoes on other readers. But that is just me being unhappy with my posts quality and overall, I'm glad the merit system was implemented. I'm seeing less and less of spammy posts in the forum.

I have gone through some of your other threads, and you seem to be pretty good at finding data here and putting it together to some meaningful outcome...it is no secret that I have some problems with the merit system (chief among them is that it seems that too much merit is being passed out simply for agreeing with the merit system)...is there any way you could find the data required to tell us exactly what percentage of merit is actually given out on merit-based threads?...it may be information that some would rather not see, but I guess that's what we need to make sure that we have not simply made a change, but an improvement...thanks if you can...what the hell, thanks if you cant

btw...


this is a cringingly embarrassing response....how is posting a dozen words designed to garner merit, NOT a shitpost??....oh, because he agreed

Not so happy, but chill as usual.;D. Amount of work ahead put me down sometimes but the merit system will stay as it is and I should adapt and improve myself. Little bit envy to people ranked up easily who join the same time (more or less) with me. But I see few examples of fast rank up and start feeling positive. Only real discouraging things are account and merit trading/exchange.

There is a big difference between a person who was able to raise the rank only by the activity and otherwise.
Although it was able to raise rank easily easily before introduction, it is extremely difficult after introduction.

Account hacking also increased due to Merit system.
The quality of posting has not changed either.
Deleting posts by moderators is more influential than Merit.
Why do they even delete template posts for Airdrop, it is very painful.XD

Of course i am not happy with that merits system,but i always respect the those people who created the rules,such as the Admin and  moderators.

I think it is good, since it will help reduce spams on the platform. The only problem I have is that, the merits are not given frequently so it is difficult to move higher in ranks.

The idea is excellent, and who cares if it will slow down ranking. The only really annoying thing is that merits have not been given proportionally to activity, a choice which has created too many injustices.

It is designed to acknowledge member based on their quality not for their number of post they have done. If it is designed to be given based on activity proportionally, then it is not that hard to gain merits and it would be the same just like "posting randomly and then get rank" like the old system.

Taking into cognizance how things were when I joined this forum early last year and now, I would say the merit system has done marvelously well in fighting spams. But on the negative:
1. Merit on Legendary account is a waste.
2. The frenzy for merit giving has died off...

For me, the sour part is that even constructive posts don't even get merited any more.

I think it is normal for a system to be like this. At the first time people will use it a lot and then it will gradually become lesser and lesser merits given by people until it stops at one point. But the good thing is, if you made a great posts, it will last long and it has chance to be discovered in the future when people are active in giving merit again. Like me, i dont expect people to post in my thread anymore, you can see the difference of time in each post.

This assumes that the main function of the merit system is to remove the barrier to ranking up. In my opinion it is a means for members to encourage good posters, and to help others to create posts that are of benefit to the community. Legendaries and Heroes need to keep their fingers on the pulse of the forum just as much as newbies, and the merit system is a great way to read reactions to your posting.

Isn't it time that members stopped thinking of the merit system as something that was created for the underworld here, and to start looking at the far greater opportunities that can come from participating in the outerworld?

I have the same thoughts and sentiment. I have not visited this forum for a year and I was surprised and annoyed when I learned about the new Merit Point System. For me I believe that this Merit Point System has its ups and downs.

But the biggest effect that this Merit Point System brought is that it lessened the number of active users in this forum because as we all know, it became much harder to reach a higher rank because of this system. Obtaining merits is not an easy thing to do and requires luck, time, and more effort.

The good effect of this new system is that I really noticed that the number of dummy accounts has incredibly decreased.

Much fairer than it used to be, but still I see lots of people with 100+ merit writing in useless threads or copypasting, while some regular members really helped me and they have 10-20 points.

I dont think so. Alot of people end up making loads of accounts, spam to JR and get bounties from all ends.

However maybe it should be a bit easier to get merits? Idk

If the so you called active users are become more passive in this forum because merit stop them to become higher rank, then i guess merit does the job right. They apparently just want the money from this forum because higher rank means higher money. If they never care about money, or only have a tiny little care about money, then they will still be here talking with others, sharing knowledge with others, helping each others,etc, but they only care about rank.