Bitcoin Forum

South Korean electronics giant Samsung has begun manufacturing ASIC hardware geared to cryptocurrency mining in a Chinese partnership.


That’s according to a report in local news outlet The Bell, which on Monday stated the deal with Taiwanese operator TSMC Taiwan was already resulting in “mass production.”

The move would constitute the second major step into the mining sector by a global multinational this month after Eastman Kodak announced a surprising but highly-criticized scheme several weeks ago.

Samsung would also join the turbulent race to cement positions on cryptocurrency in South Korea, news of a major deal between exchange Bithumb and e-commerce platform WeMakePrice coming the same day as the company’s announcement.

According to the Bell, sources confirmed the partnership, with analysts suggesting it was premature to consider profitability increases.

Nonetheless, TSMC’s position as a supplier to market giant Bitmain could see the Samsung move provide a much-needed dose of competition in mining.


In late October, Samsung hinted at its interest in cryptocurrency mining with the unveiling of an altogether more experimental product at its San Francisco developer conference.

A ‘rig’ comprising forty repurposed Galaxy S5 smartphones and other products was described as “innovative” to Vice while at the time remaining something of an understated contribution to the industry.

“This innovative platform provides an environmentally responsible way for old Galaxy mobile devices to breathe new life, providing new possibilities and potential extended value for devices that might otherwise be forgotten in desk drawers or discarded,” a spokesman told the publication at the time.

2018’s other major mining announcement from Kodak meanwhile appeared to fail in its bid to create the desired buzz from the industry.

Its two-year contract attracted as much negative publicity as the hardware itself, commentators noting the mathematics employed by the company would end up losing customers revenue.

Nevertheless, shares in the embattled electronics manufacturer jumped following the announcement at CES Las Vegas, despite one journalist describing it as “the dumbest thing he had seen” at the technology event.

http://bitcoinist.com/samsung-production-asic-miner-bitmain/

This can be a significant problem for those who use mining GPU. Network complexity will increase significantly and will make this method ineffective. The production capacity of Samsung is very great. They can significantly increase sales volumes of ASIC. This will cause a significant reduction in the profitability of mining. I think it's bad news.

Its only a problem to those pushing ASIC miners with ASICBoost. Jihan Wu is probably going to have a heart attack, and it serves him right - he's been a parasite on the back of Bitcoin for long enough. From purposefully mining empty blocks (contributing nothing back to the network, just grubbing for the block reward), to backing shitforks like BCash, he deserves a comeuppance from the juggernaut of Samsung.

As for it making GPU miners unprofitable, that ship sailed a LONG time ago for Bitcoin, on other coins that are "ASIC resistant", it won't matter too much either.

Please Samsung, turn Jihan's Bitmain into a pile of rubbish by taking over it's insanely large market share. Samsung has the power and the capital to achieve this, and this will directly function as an example of how that centralized part of the market will slowly become less depending on just one major entity. This is probably one of the best news articles of this entire year for me, and I'm not exaggerating things. Jihan's cartel is a poisonous entity in this market making a living off of Bitcoin, but at the same time doesn't mind to tarnish Bitcoin's reputation for his own hidden agenda plans, the bastard. I hope that Samsung's potentially successful entrance in this market will stimulate other manufacturers to do the same. I can't wait to see Jihan's empire shrink slowly but surely.

This is insane. There is too much mining difficulty already. This would make mining difficulty rise further...it is plain stupid.
Samsung can make huge losses here.

Anyone have any idea when this will hit the market?

Your post doesn't really make sense. Samsung gets involved in this market because of how much potential there is. If we look at how much demand there is for proper mining gear, and that on a very large scale, it's more than lucrative for Samsung to enter this market. If they manage to offer their miners for a lower sale price, they'll probably start messing with Bitmain's market big time. Don't think anyone here will lose sleep over Bitmain losing its iron grip on this element of the industry. More entities being able to buy cheaper mining gear means a much stronger network in the long run, which of course will drive up the difficulty even further, but that's not a problem. Increasing difficulty means increasing demand, and if the price keeps growing as well, then everyone remains happy.

"Samsung edges in on Bitmain",  a good thing as Bitmain become the only market makers for ASICs hardware and they can mark-up the price at their will due to the big demand. I'm wondering whether the ASIC miners will be sold to the public or it just private-sell to "Chinese partnership?
a better ASIC means; it can generate bigger hashrate but sold at a cheaper price or at least it has the same price as Bitmain's ASIC.

My post makes alot of sense. I think u just dislike bitmain too much.

Dude, last year, Bitcoin price went up from 800 usd to 20,000 usd to now about 10k+ usd. That is a price increase of 12-20x or so.
Did mining get 12-20x MORE profitable?
No, it didnt.
Why?
Because bitmain and other manufacturers push out so much equipment to push difficulty far far higher....

Now, wat do u think will happen when more manufacturers add to even MORE mining equipment and BIGGER difficulty increase??
Bitcoin price will need to go up 12-20x again...same as last year... to keep mining profitability sort of the same.

I dont see bitcoin rising to 120,000- 200,000 usd this year. It has stagnated for a month as it is.......
We can have a case where mining does not make money but selling miners makes money.

So much uninformed idiocy in such a small paragraph.

Higher Bitcoin Prices == Bigger Profits Per Coin

Total Hashrate Sum Of Mining Pool Results in ---> Proportional Share Of Block Rewards (Averaged over time, there are variances) + Transaction Fees Per Block Mined

"Stagnating for a month" after rallying to an ALL-TIME FUCKING HIGH is the the usual pattern for Bitcoin, you loon.

Bitcoin is up 969% from January 31st, 2017.

You also realize that there seems to be a direct correlation to increases in difficulty and price?

Of course not, you're too busy being an idiot.

It is about time that someone come in to Bully the current Bully. {Jihan Wu} He has been throwing his weight around for

much too long now. I face a lot of hostility from a lot of gamers lately, who are saying that Crypto currencies are the leading

cause of the inflated prices of GPU cards. {They should blame the shortage of these cards on the manufacturing companies,

because they are simply to adapting to the current demand for these cards.}  >:(   Samsung has timed this perfectly,

because there are a huge demand for mining equipment at the current moment.  >:(

This is another step to monopolization of the market mining. I am opposed to this. My opinion is that it would be better if each user cryptocurrency would provide their capacities for the implementation of the transaction. Now you understand that you need to change the system of confirming transactions. But the mining lobby against it. This affects all of us.

I somewhat agree with the poster you criticize here, though for different reasons. I really don't see a lot of potential in the ASIC miners market. Here are my two points regarding this matter. First, we don't know much about future Bitcoin regulations, so, in the worst case scenario, there may be nothing to mine. But probably Samsung knows better, more power to them. Anyway, they are likely testing waters with this endeavor and they won't lose much even if their effort fails miserably. And second, POW mining, and ASIC mining specifically, is a dead end, so entering this market seems to be a risky business on its own. To put it simply, they may be too late to the party. But then again, Samsung is just too big to lose too much even if they will have to quit.

Of course higher bitcoin prices = higher profits but u gotta be freaking retarded to assume that bitcoin price will rise 10 times this year juz because it did so last year. Past performance does not indicate future performance, period...

And if by some miracle that happens, it would be much more profitable to juz buy and hold bitcoin rather than put money into mining equipment.

Dude, there is NO CORRELATION between price and difficulty period lol. Price got pumped last year due to hype and good news from media. That seems to have died down for now.

If there is a correlation, dash price needs to be 2-3 times higher than it is now due to the difficulty's phenominal rise. Antminer D3 will then make some significant profit instead of wat it is doing now.
Bitmain isnt dumb either. They diversify to AI chips as well, not juz mining.

U gotta be nuts if u think btc can rise 10 times a year. That would make its mkt cap over 2trillion plus this year and 20 trillion next year...thats juz impossible and it will actually be posing a significant risk to financial system in just few years from now.

I'll ignore the other debate that's going on at the moment and just point out one thing.  If Samsung are merely producing the hardware for sale and not actually using it themselves to mine, they're not going to care in the slightest what the difficulty is.  And providing they manage to sell lots of their hardware, they're likely going to make a profit whatever happens to the difficulty.  The only people in this scenario who would potentially face huge losses are the miners whose hardware isn't up to spec anymore, along with anyone who tries to sell ASICs that aren't up to spec anymore.  Obviously this all assumes Samsung do actually make decent mining rigs, but we'll have to wait and see to know that for sure.

It's about time this c*nt get's some serious competition. He's had his monopoly on the ASIC miners for way too long now and it's about time that his share of hashing power in the network significantly decreases. If Samsung happens to become a worthy competitor his influence in general will most certainly decrease and for someone as pathetic as Wu that's really something we want. The interest of Samsung in cryptocurrency is also worth nothing. News like this reiterates that cryptocurrency is here to say despite a mostly red market.

Yep, spot.on. it will be like the D3 or thd obelisk miner which will have a very hard time ROI now.
Obelisk miner will probably never roi. Kodak also gave a ridiculous proposal for mining that puts them in profit and users in likely losses.
Samsug is a huge company and this is juz small business for them.


And that is why it is actually a good thing that we dont have more manufacturers. The most profitable mining time would have beem when bitmain had a monopoly.

More mabufacturers means more machines and since there is a fixed amount of new bitcoin that can be mined every 10mins, that means less profit per miner.

In general, miners are bought 2-3 months in advance. This makes things worst. People will see the profitability as low but somewhat decent and order. By the time the order reaches them, the profit is lower due to difficulty increases. This is made worst when many manufacturers deliver at the same time.... The media will irresponsibly sensationalize mining because they need something to write.

This is not like a normal product where more competition means cheaper prices for consumers and so competition means consumers win. There is a limited amount of coins released every time period that can be earned by evrryone...

Sorry to say that but you might be wrong here because there is some correlation between price and difficulty. It may indeed take some time to get established and revealed, especially when there are huge price swings in the short term. Nevertheless, if the price goes up in the long term, new miners will join the club, and the rise in difficulty will definitely follow after some adjustment period until profitability sets at some typical value.

On the other hand, when the price goes down, it becomes less profitable or just no longer profitable to mine for some or most miners, they fall off, and difficulty goes down too. Obviously, it is not as simple as it looks for there are a lot of factors at play here. Volatility is likely the most important one of them, which massively complicates the matter, but certainly not the only factor. Another likely factor is that miners may be mining at a loss for some time expecting the price to rise in the future.

I agree with what you say above. Moreover, I can add that it is not only with mining cryptocurrencies. It is the same with any commodity out there. If we substitute production costs for difficulty, we will see that the costs rise and fall together with the price, though in a somewhat deferred manner. For example, when gold surged to almost $1,900 dollars a few years ago, production costs also rose soon thereafter. The reason was quite simple. It became profitable to extract gold from more expensive mines given high prices. And when people later argued that the price of gold couldn't fall because of the high production costs, they were pretty much wrong. The price then fell over 40% in a couple of years and so did the costs. Crude oil is another obvious example of this pattern.

Do you go to a special school to be so retarded, or does it just come naturally?

Difficulty is a reflection of increase in total network hashing power, which in itself is representative of substantial investment in Bitcoin. The reason you don't see the corresponding rise in other shitcoins, is because they haven't proven themselves and none have been toughened and attacked like Bitcoin has and survived. While a baby might make it across a busy highway due to sheer probability, it doesn't mean that baby-shitcoin is worth anything yet.

Bitcoin is the big boy on the block, and it has not only crossed that busy highway, but at sprinting speed while onlookers take potshots at it from the nearby pedestrian walkway. So shut the fuck up about some crapcoin having high difficulty -- it isn't the same fucking thing. Which brings me to another point...

MARKETCAP IS A FUCKING IDIOT MEASURING STICK

You keeep fucking mentioning "marketcap" like you know something. You fucking don't.

Its easy to game, and clearly plenty of shitforks and shitcoins have relied on large issuance of their tokens so they can boast large "muh marketcap" numbers. If you don't realize how some idiot in his underwear can create a shitcoin and value it at a dollar per 100 billion units, giving it an insane marketcap, then you fail basic logic and should shut the fuck up for all eternity.

"Rise 10 times in a year" -- since you can't write worth two fucks, I'll use my superior deduction abilities to infer you meant "Bitcoin can't rally more than 10x in a year".

Look at this chart -- https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/0*YupospXpDV3ZRkln.

Stare at it, let it sink into the soft folds of your fucking walnut-brain.

See the left? Its price wiggling around down to 100.

See the peak? Its price after it rallied to 1,000+

That is more than 10x in a FUCKING YEAR. And even if it didn't manage that multiple, its mouth-breathing idiots like you that can't grasp the most basic fucking principles that drag down the entire space. So go to your nearest computer, buy all the shitcoins you want, and shut the fuck up.

You are a complete fucking idiot -- and you're so intellectually lazy you can't even bother to type "you" for fucking "u".... get the fuck outta here with that texting shorthand shit.

In short, go fuck yourself.

There is no direct and instant correlation but the price will always affect difficulty.

Let's say the price goes to 10$ (for the sake of the argument), who is going to mine? Those that don't give a damn about profits and those that get free energy.  Expect the difficulty to go back by a few (more) digits.

The same if the price spikes up to 100k. With so much money as reward for each block people will plug back block erupters.

They finally realized it's a business for them, should they realize that a few years earlier, the market is all theirs.

Dude, there is no correlation. Tbat is just u thinking someone is looking out for u lol.

More miners = higher difficulty
Price has nothing to do with difficulty

And yes, while people are less likely to order when it is not profitable, bare in mind that miners are ordered 2-3 months in advance, no one calculates the total difficulty that all the miners will create, and the media sensationalizes mining which makes people juz buy...
So, more manufacturers means that every month, there are much more machines going online than when there were less manufacturers. And currently, it is already rising too fast.
Many D3 miners will probably never break even....

Samsung wants a quick cash in the domain, but I doubt how much market share they will get.

Price may have nothing to do with difficulty but difficulty definitely has everything to do with price. When will there be more miners - when the price rises or when the price falls long-term? Rising prices will undoubtedly increase profitability of mining at the current difficulty simply because the same number of coins mined will cost more, but if profits increase in some field or activity, they will invariably attract a lot of new players.

Therefore, the rise in Bitcoin prices will attract new miners and the rise in difficulty will follow as you say yourself. More miners means higher difficulty. Price is the cause and difficulty is the effect in this case but all causal relationships are necessarily statistically correlated, though the opposite is not always true, of course. It seems like you are looking at one side of the equation or in one direction only.

Since it is profitable for miner, then we will expect more companies will enter this crypto space. More stable it will be for our txs.

And here start the problems, more companies will get involved...more technology advancement...asic's 10th generation will see the light...in few years people will ask what's mean cpu/gpu mining?...

I am really wondering why there is no so much competition on the manufacture of those mining equipment considering that the demand is so high. I am glad that Samsung is taking the Bitcoin industry seriously and is planning to be the number one supplier most especially to small miners worldwide. The bottomline is that with a healthy competition, we should expect the consumers or buyers to be greatly benefited. It is indeed about time that a big conglomerate enter into the Bitcoin mining scene dominated by you-know-who for a long time.

Dude, u are dead wrong. There is no relationship besides people checking mining profitability before a purchase. That doesnt affect much and is made alot WORSE when there are more manufacturers.

Look at dash mining. So many people using the antminer D3 will not break even. Bitmain is nice enough to give us coupons to help some. The most efficient dash miner via innosilicon is also a bad investment because it takes too long to break even for the cost. Dash price has risen about 100% in last 3 months and 200% in last 6 months and Bitmain has stopped selling the D3 and yet, it is bad. This is because there are TOO MANY miners since then.

Everyone looks at the profitability of the coin and orders the miners. The miners come 2 months later from 2 different manufacturers. The difficulty skyrockets when all the miners are online (2 months later) and people realize it will take many months to break even. The problem is that new more efficient miners appear before they can break even and thus, their miner is obsolete.

That is made worse when instead of ordering from 2 manufacturers, miners can now order from 3 manufacturers ....there will be MORE miners that suddenly appear after the 2 month delivery time because there are now MORE manufacturers selling more amounts of machines....




And as someone pointed out that while we buy miners at 1300-2300 USD, the manufacturers can create it at a fraction of the cost, under 1000 USD. There is nothing stopping them from just making more machines and mining it for themselves. Their breakeven is alot faster than any buyer. It is even possible that in future, only asic miner manufactures may be miners. At the moment, it looks unlikely though.

I really think these are good news, because it king of shows that the interest in bitcoin is very much alive. Mining is a huge industry right now, and it's important to bitcoin. Good ASICS are usually made by the same dominant miners, so it's always good for a healthy competition. A lot of people complain about mining being centralized, so maybe this will open doors to new miners entering the market because maybe ASICs prices will drop, and it will be more profitable to mine bitcoin.

People checking mining profitability before a purchase is exactly how this correlation get established in practice. When they see that mining is profitable, they will buy mining equipment. But profitable is synonymous here with rising prices because the coins which miners receive simply start to cost more. So the higher the profitability the greater number of would-be miners are going to buy ASICs. But as you correctly pointed out yourself, more miners leads to higher difficulty. Thus the correlation between the price and mining difficulty is established.

Do you mean Samsung will build miners based on GPU, not ASIC?

The best thing about this news being that these processors save up to 35% of the energy then conventional mining systems, which is great considering energy used by mining will increase as bitcoin price increases. Bitcoin computing is designed as such that computing becomes more difficult and consequently uses more power as traffic increases. This traffic will only increase as bitcoin price increases so a more wholesome solution has to be in pce other than this but for now this is okay.

Samsung always invests too little in the Quality and Testing stage of the product development, so there is no guarantee their chips or miners will not be as buggy as their smartphones and laptops.

The timing? were they waiting for BTC to crash, the way it has now.?
With all their resources, and this is the best they can do.
Do they know something we don't.

omg you are too dramatic about this news clue to btc price correction, most investors consider it a short term correction and opprotunity to buy btc and alts at very low prices, but not a crash..

That isnt anywhere near good enough to be called correlation because we dont know how many miners get shipped and there is a 2 month window before the machines arrive. Furthermore, there will be alottt more machines shipped when there are more manufacturers. Samsung may very well make a loss here but it isnt a big deal to them since they are huge.

For example many new miners ordered units 1-2 months back when profits were farrr higher, around 5-8 times higher and now, when they get their machine, the proditability is a hell lot lower. Thus, there is no real correlation considering how huge the difference is....

And seeing how btc price went down unexpectedly, dont expect last year 10x price increase to surely occur juz because it did last year. That kept mining alive last year. Btc is very unlikely to shoot up that much this year lol

I dont know but chances are, it will be asic.

I dont know if quality will be good. One of their note phones did explode after all lol

Samsung enters bitcoin mining industry with new mining hardware. It is targeting the lucrative chinese market with its ASIC chips.
https://www.cointarot.com/general-news/samsung-enters-bitcoin-mining-industry/ (https://www.cointarot.com/general-news/samsung-enters-bitcoin-mining-industry/)

This cant be bad news for bitcoin, the more competition on creating mining hardware should be always good for all. Forget about all those problems that i'm reading in this thread about mining difficulty etc etc, there will be always similar problems for all, you should focus on the fact that bitcoin is growing up, that's all.


keep in mind that nobody can not stop it, so let's hope that "problem" bring us good things at all... ;)

A 2 month window explains why difficulty is lagging behind the price. Anyway, you can see on the chart below that difficulty has been following the price pretty close:

https://i.imgur.com/yE41WC5.jpg

Now that Bitcoin has gone down dramatically, we can see that difficulty still rises. This can be because miners are still adding mining rigs as there is definitely some lapse between buying a mining rig and actually receiving it, which you correctly pointed out. If the price doesn't rebound and flatlines from now on or even goes down further, we should see the mining difficulty go down too. If it continues to rise despite Bitcoin going down, then you would be right. So let's wait and see what happens in the next few months.

It's so pleasant to hear it! Now, when BTC price is rising, SAMSUNG will make mass production of miners which mean, that they will be cheaper, so it would even more profitable to mine ;D

The mining difficulty will not go down. Why would it go down? People will mine AS LONG AS they can make something out of it....even if it is 50 bucks a month? The only time it will go down is IF it becomes unprofitable to mine. But in that case, that would mean those with lower electeicity cost make like 50 bucks a month and those with higher electeicity cost switch it off.
Both sides lose anyways.

Dont believe me? Check out dash mining. Difficulty has gone down because it was unprofitable to mime for higher electricity cost users. Lower electricity cost users are making like 50 bucks a month and thus, may never break even.
If it becomes more profitable, the other D3 miners that have shut down will be brought online, increasing the difficulty again. Alot of people wont break even either way.

And yeah those running the innosilicon more efficient dash miner will always make money but the returns are small for the price they paid.....it will take very long to break even, if even possible....like 20 months last i calculated.

LOL.

12.5 btc is released every 10mins. There is a LIMITED amount of btc that can be mined. More machines just means less btc per machine. So, it does not become more profitable to mine lol. It becomes less profitable.

And if there were MORE manufacturers, this means more machines are pre-ordered and more machines will be deployed after 2 months have passed......thats not good.

Right now, difficulty will continue to increase because pre-ordered machines from 2 months are coming online.
If Samsung were operational ans had taken orders 2 months ago, more would be deployed now.....thats not good.

Miners can be mining for a loss for some time hoping that the price will rise in the future, especially if shutting down will cost them some bucks. But if the price markedly goes down as it has already done or even lower to $5,000 and below, mining will likely be no longer profitable for a lot of miners. They will start to leave, and that would mean decline in the hash rate because the rest can't arbitrarily increase their hashes. But if the hash rate goes down for a certain amount of time (about 2 weeks or so), the mining difficulty will get adjusted to match current hash rate. Therefore, if hash rate declines due to miners leaving, difficulty will necessarily go down too. Another question, though, is that they may have pretty high profit margins, so most of them can still remain profitable at present prices and no one is in fact going to shut down, thus the difficulty won't drop.

As an aside, I'm not very familiar with Dash mining, but as far as I know it is a POS coin so we probably can't compare Dash mining with Bitcoin mining, at least not directly. Anyway, there can be a handful of factors affecting mining difficulty where price is just one of them, even though it is a decisive factor which should prevail over other factors in the long run.

I see you're still busy being a retard.

Fees will supplant the block reward, so the halving won't have the disasterous effect you think it will.

How did you even get involved in this space anyway, you seem too stupid to understand even a small fraction of it.

He is not a retard, he just wants to protect his income.
Screw free market, screw anti trust laws, forget about the whole purpose of Bitcoin.
He even suggested that we should have an OPEC of miners. (check his threads in mining speculation)

This is just greed beyond the levels the usually retards here can spawn.


There was no timing!
 Chips (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit) are not made like Chips (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potato_chip)  ;D

It takes months from the start, planning till you actually have the wafers ready and build miners.

Well, ASICs are not used to mine bitcoin only. Samsung will probably produce a variety of chips for different hash algorythms. In fact, it means there will be no deficit for miners and prices should be down for mining hardware.

Wtf. Dude, dash mining is NOT PROFITABLE, in general.
U could have bought an inno dash miner for like 5k and make 200-300 usd a month OR bought an antminer D3 that makes 25-100 usd a month for 1.4k USD. That is becaues there is only SO MUCH DASH to be mined and too many miners going for it. Dash is not a POS coin....



U are the retard. There were BIG miners that went bust during the halving. Go google the news. KNC miner,etc, declared bankruptcy then. Fees are not adjusted to ensure that mining is profitable, there is only so much fees can do and bitcoin fees are too high already.

Look at Dash mining, there are now too many miners and too little for each miner. Thus, alot of people will NOT get a return on investment. U dont seem to understand that there is a LIMITED amount of bitcoin that can be mined every 10 minutes.

With your theory, then the whole world including governments should buy unlimited amount of ASICS because with more asics, we can mine more bitcoin and everyone will be rich. Somehow, things will be adjusted such that it is always profitable lol. That is not possible. There are only 12.5 bitcoin to be mined

I am not protecting my income. I am being realistic. It is either a certain amount of miners function and some profit can be made OR there are too many miners and 80-100% of miners dont break even. This happens in all oversupplied markets. If there is oversupply, new miners will just not break even. An OPEC for miners would make sense. And it is not just OPEC. There are many other organizations that do similar things to have a market make sense...on things like control catch rates in the sea to prevent overfishing from killing fish populations. This is despite fisherman wanting to catch more to earn more, etc. There is even a federation for maple syrup lol. And imo, organizations like OPEC are kinda needed to ensure that oil is properly supplied to the world. They need to calculate how much to invest in infrastructure because it take a year before any new oil actually comes online...etc.

Check out dash mining now. There are too many ASICS and in general, no dash miner can profit. There is a 5k+ usd miner that makes 200-300 usd or a 1.4k miner that makes 25-100 usd a month. If price does not increase drastically, all miners will not not break even. There is no guarantee dash will rise. Dash difficulty has been DROPPING as it is https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/dash-difficulty-chart  because it is not profitable for some miners to run them when dash is at this low price. The difficulty will rise and miners will come back online if dash price rise later.
Too many asics on btc and it will be just like dash mining. U yourself wouldnt want to go into mining today and if it can never break even...

Look at current rates. With an S9, u can get 250 USD monthly if u have 0.05 USD electricity (a super cheap rate which most people dont have), and it cost 2,320 USD. That means 9+ months to break even, assuming rate remains the same, and this is without shipping and VAT cost yet. It will in general take 10-12 months with that and longer if u have higher electricity cost. U only get 6 months warranty, so, the other 3-6 months are at your own risk.

This is for those who ordered the machines 2 months ago, and these people ordered because they saw the profit rate at around 1000 usd per month. Btc has halved but mining profit has gone down 4 times due to difficulty increase. Thats a major difference in juz 2 months. There are stronger machines coming out this year from canaan and avalon, and greater interest in mining due to media coverage. Thus, the difficulty spike should get worse. There are even idiots rushing to get into kodak's horrible mining contract.... due to media coverage and cryptomania.

Look man, satire illustration - we can have 400,000 happy miners that make some profit by taking some risk or 800,000 grumpy angry miners who will never break even, be sad daily, and will regret the day they ever lay a hand on a miner.

At least be honest about it, you mine and you're afraid you won't even get your ROI.
Don't try to hide it , common, one look at your post history and it's pretty much telling the whole story.

Bottom line as I won't discuss it again.
Nobody gives a damn about the miners being happy or not happy. Nobody!
If BTC would have been built as a PoS "you" wouldn't even exist.

It's not the number of mining gear that is setting the balance.
It's the price. If BTC goes down to 100, what are we going to do to keep you guys happy?
Start with the Roman decimation , every 1 miner in 10 has to burn his gear?


Should we compare price /difficulty to January 2017?

I can not accept that Samsung has been too deep into everything

Dude, I never tried to hide. I wrote in other topics also that I am mining. Thank god I have alot more S9 and L3s lol and I bought all my S9s at the lower 1.4-1.6k price and I have been mining for awhile in the better months.

Every miner gives a damn actually. And that includes new-wannabe-miners such as yourself. Nobody would want a miner that cant break even especially when the ROI looked so good just before u make that purchase. It is better u dont waste your money. Unfortunately, for those who ordered miners 2 months ago where mining profits are at an all time high, some may not break even if their machine breaks just after the 6month warranty period.

If btc is built on POS, I would have more btc and no miners lol. No point comparing 2017 because bitcoin price mooned 15-20x in 2017. That is unlikely to happen this year and impossible to happen yearly....mkt cap would be insane then. If price goes to 100, everyone loses. More manufacturers wont be good, that would mean difficulty jumping more every 2 months because more miners arrive. Samsung will probably lose money when they come in here unless there is major increase in btc price suddenly. But this sort of venture is a small loss to them and they can take it.

Btw, free market is silly here. And even YOUR OWN USA laws has catch limits on fishing because there is only so much that can be earned from fishing and overfishing kills all profits pretty quickly. Same for mining, there is only so much to be earned. The only difference is the lead time before shit-hits-the-fan is longer in fishing than mining. Same for OPEC where they need to cut/increase production in advance because new production takes like a year to come online. U dont want oil to go up and down by 100 dollars per barrel a year lol...and throw things into chaos. Thus, people plan in advance.

Are you actually comparing bitcoin mining to fishing?
Seriously? I'm taking back my words on you not being one of those r people.

Fishing limits are put in place because if we fish too much there will be no fish left next year.
What is the parallel with bitcoin? If the hash rate goes 10 times this year there will be no bitcoins next year?
Seriously???? Oh, and by the way, it's not my own USA , I'm not american and I don't know how you've come to this idea.

Secondary, oil was at 100 barrels when OPEC had the power.
It went down when the shale gas broke their market share, low gas price are because there are more producers.
Some twisted logic you have here..you're living a twisted dream rolled in nightmares here.

I don't know how to explain you as I've tried 100 times till now with no effect.
There is no rule here all the miners should make a profit or even ROI.
And there shouldn't be one!!!!!

Free market! One of the reasons bitcoin exists, one of the things it represents..and you try to smash it.

Omg , it is not about fishing or mining. It is the concept of how oversupply destroys everything.....
If u allow overfishing, there will still be fish next year, but just so little fish that no fisherman can make a profit or breakeven on it. U dont overfish, so, there will be profit for the fisherman each year.
Similarly to bitcoin, we should not over-deploy miners, so there will be a reasonable profit next month and a possible breakeven for the machine going forward. There is limited amount to earn from mining or fishing, so, dont overdo it, or no one wins.
An example - watch dirty money episode about maple syrup on netflix. Their maple syrup industry only stopped making losses after they controlled supply. It is not just maple syrup, fishing and oil. There are all sorts of federations/organizations that prevent oversupply for alot of things that u do not know about lol. Oil projects take a year to produce any oil. If they dont plan it properly, u gonna see oil prices up and down 150-200 dollars yearly due to supplies going up and down erratically...

Such things are still considered free markets, juz smarter. Sure, there is no such rule but it could be bad and alot of unnecessary losses for new miners/manufacturers going forward. It is stupid to waste time/money/electricity when it can be avoided. There are tons of warnings on ICOs because people can lose their money. Mining is more expensive but they are no warnings on those. News sources even sensationalize it lol...And when things go wrong, alot will say that mining is a scam, like the the D3 thread lol.

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/569f9247dd0895c00d8b46eb-1119-544/baltic%20dry%202.png

It reminds me of the Baltic dry index. The index measures the freight rate or bulk carriers ships.

At its height, tons of investors bought new ships expecting a HUGE return....as seen on the index.
Ships take 2-3 years to be manufactured and delivered.
So, when the ships are delivered, there were just too MANY of them and thus, the index (freight rate) dropped greatly due to oversupply. The 2009 recession helped some too.
But, even after dry bulk trade volume and other sectors recovered from the crisis, the dry bulk index remained very low, even today, due to oversupply.
The index has remained at that collapsed rate for the last decade. Yep, decade, partly because ships are built to last 20-25 years lol.
End result is the shippers (miners) and shipyards (asic miners) made huge losses and many went bankrupt lol. Also, there were huge job losses and waste of fuel by vessels idling around. No one wins!!
A decade of such isnt a normal or smart thing. Hmmm I wonder if this will occur here.

I support free markets too but it is best to have some kinda understanding and co-op in such markets.