[2018-01-30] Samsung Enters `Mass Production` of ASIC Miners

[Angel35]

It's so pleasant to hear it! Now, when BTC price is rising, SAMSUNG will make mass production of miners which mean, that they will be cheaper, so it would even more profitable to mine

[Sandal_Hat]

People checking mining profitability before a purchase is exactly how this correlation get established in practice. When they see that mining is profitable, they will buy mining equipment. But profitable is synonymous here with rising prices because the coins which miners receive simply start to cost more. So the higher the profitability the greater number of would-be miners are going to buy ASICs. But as you correctly pointed out yourself, more miners leads to higher difficulty. Thus the correlation between the price and mining difficulty is established.

That isnt anywhere near good enough to be called correlation because we dont know how many miners get shipped and there is a 2 month window before the machines arrive. Furthermore, there will be alottt more machines shipped when there are more manufacturers. Samsung may very well make a loss here but it isnt a big deal to them since they are huge.

For example many new miners ordered units 1-2 months back when profits were farrr higher, around 5-8 times higher and now, when they get their machine, the proditability is a hell lot lower. Thus, there is no real correlation considering how huge the difference is....

A 2 month window explains why difficulty is lagging behind the price. Anyway, you can see on the chart below that difficulty has been following the price pretty close:



Now that Bitcoin has gone down dramatically, we can see that difficulty still rises. This can be because miners are still adding mining rigs as there is definitely some lapse between buying a mining rig and actually receiving it, which you correctly pointed out. If the price doesn't rebound and flatlines from now on or even goes down further, we should see the mining difficulty go down too. If it continues to rise despite Bitcoin going down, then you would be right. So let's wait and see what happens in the next few months.

The mining difficulty will not go down. Why would it go down? People will mine AS LONG AS they can make something out of it....even if it is 50 bucks a month? The only time it will go down is IF it becomes unprofitable to mine. But in that case, that would mean those with lower electeicity cost make like 50 bucks a month and those with higher electeicity cost switch it off.
Both sides lose anyways.

Dont believe me? Check out dash mining. Difficulty has gone down because it was unprofitable to mime for higher electricity cost users. Lower electricity cost users are making like 50 bucks a month and thus, may never break even.
If it becomes more profitable, the other D3 miners that have shut down will be brought online, increasing the difficulty again. Alot of people wont break even either way.

And yeah those running the innosilicon more efficient dash miner will always make money but the returns are small for the price they paid.....it will take very long to break even, if even possible....like 20 months last i calculated.

[Sandal_Hat]

It's so pleasant to hear it! Now, when BTC price is rising, SAMSUNG will make mass production of miners which mean, that they will be cheaper, so it would even more profitable to mine

LOL.

12.5 btc is released every 10mins. There is a LIMITED amount of btc that can be mined. More machines just means less btc per machine. So, it does not become more profitable to mine lol. It becomes less profitable.

And if there were MORE manufacturers, this means more machines are pre-ordered and more machines will be deployed after 2 months have passed......thats not good.

Right now, difficulty will continue to increase because pre-ordered machines from 2 months are coming online.
If Samsung were operational ans had taken orders 2 months ago, more would be deployed now.....thats not good.

[Canis Majoris]

People checking mining profitability before a purchase is exactly how this correlation get established in practice. When they see that mining is profitable, they will buy mining equipment. But profitable is synonymous here with rising prices because the coins which miners receive simply start to cost more. So the higher the profitability the greater number of would-be miners are going to buy ASICs. But as you correctly pointed out yourself, more miners leads to higher difficulty. Thus the correlation between the price and mining difficulty is established.

That isnt anywhere near good enough to be called correlation because we dont know how many miners get shipped and there is a 2 month window before the machines arrive. Furthermore, there will be alottt more machines shipped when there are more manufacturers. Samsung may very well make a loss here but it isnt a big deal to them since they are huge.

For example many new miners ordered units 1-2 months back when profits were farrr higher, around 5-8 times higher and now, when they get their machine, the proditability is a hell lot lower. Thus, there is no real correlation considering how huge the difference is....

A 2 month window explains why difficulty is lagging behind the price. Anyway, you can see on the chart below that difficulty has been following the price pretty close:

Now that Bitcoin has gone down dramatically, we can see that difficulty still rises. This can be because miners are still adding mining rigs as there is definitely some lapse between buying a mining rig and actually receiving it, which you correctly pointed out. If the price doesn't rebound and flatlines from now on or even goes down further, we should see the mining difficulty go down too. If it continues to rise despite Bitcoin going down, then you would be right. So let's wait and see what happens in the next few months.

The mining difficulty will not go down. Why would it go down? People will mine AS LONG AS they can make something out of it....even if it is 50 bucks a month? The only time it will go down is IF it becomes unprofitable to mine. But in that case, that would mean those with lower electeicity cost make like 50 bucks a month and those with higher electeicity cost switch it off.
Both sides lose anyways.

Miners can be mining for a loss for some time hoping that the price will rise in the future, especially if shutting down will cost them some bucks. But if the price markedly goes down as it has already done or even lower to $5,000 and below, mining will likely be no longer profitable for a lot of miners. They will start to leave, and that would mean decline in the hash rate because the rest can't arbitrarily increase their hashes. But if the hash rate goes down for a certain amount of time (about 2 weeks or so), the mining difficulty will get adjusted to match current hash rate. Therefore, if hash rate declines due to miners leaving, difficulty will necessarily go down too. Another question, though, is that they may have pretty high profit margins, so most of them can still remain profitable at present prices and no one is in fact going to shut down, thus the difficulty won't drop.

As an aside, I'm not very familiar with Dash mining, but as far as I know it is a POS coin so we probably can't compare Dash mining with Bitcoin mining, at least not directly. Anyway, there can be a handful of factors affecting mining difficulty where price is just one of them, even though it is a decisive factor which should prevail over other factors in the long run.

[TraderTimm]

12.5 btc is released every 10mins. There is a LIMITED amount of btc that can be mined. More machines just means less btc per machine. So, it does not become more profitable to mine lol. It becomes less profitable.

And if there were MORE manufacturers, this means more machines are pre-ordered and more machines will be deployed after 2 months have passed......thats not good.

Right now, difficulty will continue to increase because pre-ordered machines from 2 months are coming online.
If Samsung were operational ans had taken orders 2 months ago, more would be deployed now.....thats not good.

I see you're still busy being a retard.

Fees will supplant the block reward, so the halving won't have the disasterous effect you think it will.

How did you even get involved in this space anyway, you seem too stupid to understand even a small fraction of it.

[stompix]

12.5 btc is released every 10mins. There is a LIMITED amount of btc that can be mined. More machines just means less btc per machine. So, it does not become more profitable to mine lol. It becomes less profitable.

And if there were MORE manufacturers, this means more machines are pre-ordered and more machines will be deployed after 2 months have passed......thats not good.

Right now, difficulty will continue to increase because pre-ordered machines from 2 months are coming online.
If Samsung were operational ans had taken orders 2 months ago, more would be deployed now.....thats not good.

I see you're still busy being a retard.
Fees will supplant the block reward, so the halving won't have the disasterous effect you think it will.
How did you even get involved in this space anyway, you seem too stupid to understand even a small fraction of it.

He is not a retard, he just wants to protect his income.
Screw free market, screw anti trust laws, forget about the whole purpose of Bitcoin.
He even suggested that we should have an OPEC of miners. (check his threads in mining speculation)

This is just greed beyond the levels the usually retards here can spawn.

They finally realized it's a business for them, should they realize that a few years earlier, the market is all theirs.

The timing? were they waiting for BTC to crash, the way it has now.?
With all their resources, and this is the best they can do.
Do they know something we don't.

There was no timing!
 Chips are not made like Chips  

It takes months from the start, planning till you actually have the wafers ready and build miners.

[vtrx]

Well, ASICs are not used to mine bitcoin only. Samsung will probably produce a variety of chips for different hash algorythms. In fact, it means there will be no deficit for miners and prices should be down for mining hardware.

[Sandal_Hat]

People checking mining profitability before a purchase is exactly how this correlation get established in practice. When they see that mining is profitable, they will buy mining equipment. But profitable is synonymous here with rising prices because the coins which miners receive simply start to cost more. So the higher the profitability the greater number of would-be miners are going to buy ASICs. But as you correctly pointed out yourself, more miners leads to higher difficulty. Thus the correlation between the price and mining difficulty is established.

That isnt anywhere near good enough to be called correlation because we dont know how many miners get shipped and there is a 2 month window before the machines arrive. Furthermore, there will be alottt more machines shipped when there are more manufacturers. Samsung may very well make a loss here but it isnt a big deal to them since they are huge.

For example many new miners ordered units 1-2 months back when profits were farrr higher, around 5-8 times higher and now, when they get their machine, the proditability is a hell lot lower. Thus, there is no real correlation considering how huge the difference is....

A 2 month window explains why difficulty is lagging behind the price. Anyway, you can see on the chart below that difficulty has been following the price pretty close:

Now that Bitcoin has gone down dramatically, we can see that difficulty still rises. This can be because miners are still adding mining rigs as there is definitely some lapse between buying a mining rig and actually receiving it, which you correctly pointed out. If the price doesn't rebound and flatlines from now on or even goes down further, we should see the mining difficulty go down too. If it continues to rise despite Bitcoin going down, then you would be right. So let's wait and see what happens in the next few months.

The mining difficulty will not go down. Why would it go down? People will mine AS LONG AS they can make something out of it....even if it is 50 bucks a month? The only time it will go down is IF it becomes unprofitable to mine. But in that case, that would mean those with lower electeicity cost make like 50 bucks a month and those with higher electeicity cost switch it off.
Both sides lose anyways.

Miners can be mining for a loss for some time hoping that the price will rise in the future, especially if shutting down will cost them some bucks. But if the price markedly goes down as it has already done or even lower to $5,000 and below, mining will likely be no longer profitable for a lot of miners. They will start to leave, and that would mean decline in the hash rate because the rest can't arbitrarily increase their hashes. But if the hash rate goes down for a certain amount of time (about 2 weeks or so), the mining difficulty will get adjusted to match current hash rate. Therefore, if hash rate declines due to miners leaving, difficulty will necessarily go down too. Another question, though, is that they may have pretty high profit margins, so most of them can still remain profitable at present prices and no one is in fact going to shut down, thus the difficulty won't drop.

As an aside, I'm not very familiar with Dash mining, but as far as I know it is a POS coin so we probably can't compare Dash mining with Bitcoin mining, at least not directly. Anyway, there can be a handful of factors affecting mining difficulty where price is just one of them, even though it is a decisive factor which should prevail over other factors in the long run.

Wtf. Dude, dash mining is NOT PROFITABLE, in general.
U could have bought an inno dash miner for like 5k and make 200-300 usd a month OR bought an antminer D3 that makes 25-100 usd a month for 1.4k USD. That is becaues there is only SO MUCH DASH to be mined and too many miners going for it. Dash is not a POS coin....

12.5 btc is released every 10mins. There is a LIMITED amount of btc that can be mined. More machines just means less btc per machine. So, it does not become more profitable to mine lol. It becomes less profitable.

And if there were MORE manufacturers, this means more machines are pre-ordered and more machines will be deployed after 2 months have passed......thats not good.

Right now, difficulty will continue to increase because pre-ordered machines from 2 months are coming online.
If Samsung were operational ans had taken orders 2 months ago, more would be deployed now.....thats not good.

I see you're still busy being a retard.

Fees will supplant the block reward, so the halving won't have the disasterous effect you think it will.

How did you even get involved in this space anyway, you seem too stupid to understand even a small fraction of it.

U are the retard. There were BIG miners that went bust during the halving. Go google the news. KNC miner,etc, declared bankruptcy then. Fees are not adjusted to ensure that mining is profitable, there is only so much fees can do and bitcoin fees are too high already.

Look at Dash mining, there are now too many miners and too little for each miner. Thus, alot of people will NOT get a return on investment. U dont seem to understand that there is a LIMITED amount of bitcoin that can be mined every 10 minutes.

With your theory, then the whole world including governments should buy unlimited amount of ASICS because with more asics, we can mine more bitcoin and everyone will be rich. Somehow, things will be adjusted such that it is always profitable lol. That is not possible. There are only 12.5 bitcoin to be mined

[Sandal_Hat]

12.5 btc is released every 10mins. There is a LIMITED amount of btc that can be mined. More machines just means less btc per machine. So, it does not become more profitable to mine lol. It becomes less profitable.

And if there were MORE manufacturers, this means more machines are pre-ordered and more machines will be deployed after 2 months have passed......thats not good.

Right now, difficulty will continue to increase because pre-ordered machines from 2 months are coming online.
If Samsung were operational ans had taken orders 2 months ago, more would be deployed now.....thats not good.

I see you're still busy being a retard.
Fees will supplant the block reward, so the halving won't have the disasterous effect you think it will.
How did you even get involved in this space anyway, you seem too stupid to understand even a small fraction of it.

He is not a retard, he just wants to protect his income.
Screw free market, screw anti trust laws, forget about the whole purpose of Bitcoin.
He even suggested that we should have an OPEC of miners. (check his threads in mining speculation)

This is just greed beyond the levels the usually retards here can spawn.

They finally realized it's a business for them, should they realize that a few years earlier, the market is all theirs.

The timing? were they waiting for BTC to crash, the way it has now.?
With all their resources, and this is the best they can do.
Do they know something we don't.

There was no timing!
 Chips are not made like Chips  

It takes months from the start, planning till you actually have the wafers ready and build miners.

I am not protecting my income. I am being realistic. It is either a certain amount of miners function and some profit can be made OR there are too many miners and 80-100% of miners dont break even. This happens in all oversupplied markets. If there is oversupply, new miners will just not break even. An OPEC for miners would make sense. And it is not just OPEC. There are many other organizations that do similar things to have a market make sense...on things like control catch rates in the sea to prevent overfishing from killing fish populations. This is despite fisherman wanting to catch more to earn more, etc. There is even a federation for maple syrup lol. And imo, organizations like OPEC are kinda needed to ensure that oil is properly supplied to the world. They need to calculate how much to invest in infrastructure because it take a year before any new oil actually comes online...etc.

Check out dash mining now. There are too many ASICS and in general, no dash miner can profit. There is a 5k+ usd miner that makes 200-300 usd or a 1.4k miner that makes 25-100 usd a month. If price does not increase drastically, all miners will not not break even. There is no guarantee dash will rise. Dash difficulty has been DROPPING as it is https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/dash-difficulty-chart  because it is not profitable for some miners to run them when dash is at this low price. The difficulty will rise and miners will come back online if dash price rise later.
Too many asics on btc and it will be just like dash mining. U yourself wouldnt want to go into mining today and if it can never break even...

Look at current rates. With an S9, u can get 250 USD monthly if u have 0.05 USD electricity (a super cheap rate which most people dont have), and it cost 2,320 USD. That means 9+ months to break even, assuming rate remains the same, and this is without shipping and VAT cost yet. It will in general take 10-12 months with that and longer if u have higher electricity cost. U only get 6 months warranty, so, the other 3-6 months are at your own risk.

This is for those who ordered the machines 2 months ago, and these people ordered because they saw the profit rate at around 1000 usd per month. Btc has halved but mining profit has gone down 4 times due to difficulty increase. Thats a major difference in juz 2 months. There are stronger machines coming out this year from canaan and avalon, and greater interest in mining due to media coverage. Thus, the difficulty spike should get worse. There are even idiots rushing to get into kodak's horrible mining contract.... due to media coverage and cryptomania.

Look man, satire illustration - we can have 400,000 happy miners that make some profit by taking some risk or 800,000 grumpy angry miners who will never break even, be sad daily, and will regret the day they ever lay a hand on a miner.

[stompix]

I am not protecting my income. I am being realistic. It is either a certain amount of miners function and some profit can be made OR there are too many miners and 80-100% of miners dont break even. This happens in all oversupplied markets. If there is oversupply, new miners will just not break even. An OPEC for miners would make sense. And it is not just OPEC. There are many other organizations that do similar things to have a market make sense...on things like control catch rates in the sea to prevent overfishing from killing fish populations. This is despite fisherman wanting to catch more to earn more, etc. There is even a federation for maple syrup lol. And imo, organizations like OPEC are kinda needed to ensure that oil is properly supplied to the world. They need to calculate how much to invest in infrastructure because it take a year before any new oil actually comes online...etc.

Check out dash mining now. There are too many ASICS and in general, no dash miner can profit. There is a 5k+ usd miner that makes 200-300 usd or a 1.4k miner that makes 25-100 usd a month. If price does not increase drastically, all miners will not not break even. There is no guarantee dash will rise. Dash difficulty has been DROPPING as it is https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/dash-difficulty-chart  because it is not profitable for some miners to run them when dash is at this low price. The difficulty will rise and miners will come back online if dash price rise later.
Too many asics on btc and it will be just like dash mining. U yourself wouldnt want to go into mining today and if it can never break even...

Look at current rates. With an S9, u can get 250 USD monthly if u have 0.05 USD electricity (a super cheap rate which most people dont have), and it cost 2,320 USD. That means 9+ months to break even, assuming rate remains the same, and this is without shipping and VAT cost yet. It will in general take 10-12 months with that and longer if u have higher electricity cost. U only get 6 months warranty, so, the other 3-6 months are at your own risk.

This is for those who ordered the machines 2 months ago, and these people ordered because they saw the profit rate at around 1000 usd per month. Btc has halved but mining profit has gone down 4 times due to difficulty increase. Thats a major difference in juz 2 months. There are stronger machines coming out this year from canaan and avalon, and greater interest in mining due to media coverage. Thus, the difficulty spike should get worse. There are even idiots rushing to get into kodak's horrible mining contract.... due to media coverage and cryptomania.

Look man, satire illustration - we can have 400,000 happy miners that make some profit by taking some risk or 800,000 grumpy angry miners who will never break even, be sad daily, and will regret the day they ever lay a hand on a miner.

At least be honest about it, you mine and you're afraid you won't even get your ROI.
Don't try to hide it , common, one look at your post history and it's pretty much telling the whole story.

Bottom line as I won't discuss it again.
Nobody gives a damn about the miners being happy or not happy. Nobody!
If BTC would have been built as a PoS "you" wouldn't even exist.

It's not the number of mining gear that is setting the balance.
It's the price. If BTC goes down to 100, what are we going to do to keep you guys happy?
Start with the Roman decimation , every 1 miner in 10 has to burn his gear?

Btc has halved but mining profit has gone down 4 times due to difficulty increase. Thats a major difference in juz 2 months.

Should we compare price /difficulty to January 2017?

[fuzzyboy]

I can not accept that Samsung has been too deep into everything

[Sandal_Hat]

I am not protecting my income. I am being realistic. It is either a certain amount of miners function and some profit can be made OR there are too many miners and 80-100% of miners dont break even. This happens in all oversupplied markets. If there is oversupply, new miners will just not break even. An OPEC for miners would make sense. And it is not just OPEC. There are many other organizations that do similar things to have a market make sense...on things like control catch rates in the sea to prevent overfishing from killing fish populations. This is despite fisherman wanting to catch more to earn more, etc. There is even a federation for maple syrup lol. And imo, organizations like OPEC are kinda needed to ensure that oil is properly supplied to the world. They need to calculate how much to invest in infrastructure because it take a year before any new oil actually comes online...etc.

Check out dash mining now. There are too many ASICS and in general, no dash miner can profit. There is a 5k+ usd miner that makes 200-300 usd or a 1.4k miner that makes 25-100 usd a month. If price does not increase drastically, all miners will not not break even. There is no guarantee dash will rise. Dash difficulty has been DROPPING as it is https://www.coinwarz.com/difficulty-charts/dash-difficulty-chart  because it is not profitable for some miners to run them when dash is at this low price. The difficulty will rise and miners will come back online if dash price rise later.
Too many asics on btc and it will be just like dash mining. U yourself wouldnt want to go into mining today and if it can never break even...

Look at current rates. With an S9, u can get 250 USD monthly if u have 0.05 USD electricity (a super cheap rate which most people dont have), and it cost 2,320 USD. That means 9+ months to break even, assuming rate remains the same, and this is without shipping and VAT cost yet. It will in general take 10-12 months with that and longer if u have higher electricity cost. U only get 6 months warranty, so, the other 3-6 months are at your own risk.

This is for those who ordered the machines 2 months ago, and these people ordered because they saw the profit rate at around 1000 usd per month. Btc has halved but mining profit has gone down 4 times due to difficulty increase. Thats a major difference in juz 2 months. There are stronger machines coming out this year from canaan and avalon, and greater interest in mining due to media coverage. Thus, the difficulty spike should get worse. There are even idiots rushing to get into kodak's horrible mining contract.... due to media coverage and cryptomania.

Look man, satire illustration - we can have 400,000 happy miners that make some profit by taking some risk or 800,000 grumpy angry miners who will never break even, be sad daily, and will regret the day they ever lay a hand on a miner.

At least be honest about it, you mine and you're afraid you won't even get your ROI.
Don't try to hide it , common, one look at your post history and it's pretty much telling the whole story.

Bottom line as I won't discuss it again.
Nobody gives a damn about the miners being happy or not happy. Nobody!
If BTC would have been built as a PoS "you" wouldn't even exist.

It's not the number of mining gear that is setting the balance.
It's the price. If BTC goes down to 100, what are we going to do to keep you guys happy?
Start with the Roman decimation , every 1 miner in 10 has to burn his gear?

Btc has halved but mining profit has gone down 4 times due to difficulty increase. Thats a major difference in juz 2 months.

Should we compare price /difficulty to January 2017?

Dude, I never tried to hide. I wrote in other topics also that I am mining. Thank god I have alot more S9 and L3s lol and I bought all my S9s at the lower 1.4-1.6k price and I have been mining for awhile in the better months.

Every miner gives a damn actually. And that includes new-wannabe-miners such as yourself. Nobody would want a miner that cant break even especially when the ROI looked so good just before u make that purchase. It is better u dont waste your money. Unfortunately, for those who ordered miners 2 months ago where mining profits are at an all time high, some may not break even if their machine breaks just after the 6month warranty period.

If btc is built on POS, I would have more btc and no miners lol. No point comparing 2017 because bitcoin price mooned 15-20x in 2017. That is unlikely to happen this year and impossible to happen yearly....mkt cap would be insane then. If price goes to 100, everyone loses. More manufacturers wont be good, that would mean difficulty jumping more every 2 months because more miners arrive. Samsung will probably lose money when they come in here unless there is major increase in btc price suddenly. But this sort of venture is a small loss to them and they can take it.

Btw, free market is silly here. And even YOUR OWN USA laws has catch limits on fishing because there is only so much that can be earned from fishing and overfishing kills all profits pretty quickly. Same for mining, there is only so much to be earned. The only difference is the lead time before shit-hits-the-fan is longer in fishing than mining. Same for OPEC where they need to cut/increase production in advance because new production takes like a year to come online. U dont want oil to go up and down by 100 dollars per barrel a year lol...and throw things into chaos. Thus, people plan in advance.

[stompix]

Dude, I never tried to hide. I wrote in other topics also that I am mining. Thank god I have alot more S9 and L3s lol and I bought all my S9s at the lower 1.4-1.6k price and I have been mining for awhile in the better months.

Every miner gives a damn actually. And that includes new-wannabe-miners such as yourself. Nobody would want a miner that cant break even especially when the ROI looked so good just before u make that purchase. It is better u dont waste your money. Unfortunately, for those who ordered miners 2 months ago where mining profits are at an all time high, some may not break even if their machine breaks just after the 6month warranty period.

If btc is built on POS, I would have more btc and no miners lol. No point comparing 2017 because bitcoin price mooned 15-20x in 2017. That is unlikely to happen this year and impossible to happen yearly....mkt cap would be insane then. If price goes to 100, everyone loses. More manufacturers wont be good, that would mean difficulty jumping more every 2 months because more miners arrive. Samsung will probably lose money when they come in here unless there is major increase in btc price suddenly. But this sort of venture is a small loss to them and they can take it.

Btw, free market is silly here. And even YOUR OWN USA laws has catch limits on fishing because there is only so much that can be earned from fishing and overfishing kills all profits pretty quickly. Same for mining, there is only so much to be earned. The only difference is the lead time before shit-hits-the-fan is longer in fishing than mining. Same for OPEC where they need to cut/increase production in advance because new production takes like a year to come online. U dont want oil to go up and down by 100 dollars per barrel a year lol...and throw things into chaos. Thus, people plan in advance.

Are you actually comparing bitcoin mining to fishing?
Seriously? I'm taking back my words on you not being one of those r people.

Fishing limits are put in place because if we fish too much there will be no fish left next year.
What is the parallel with bitcoin? If the hash rate goes 10 times this year there will be no bitcoins next year?
Seriously? Oh, and by the way, it's not my own USA , I'm not american and I don't know how you've come to this idea.

Secondary, oil was at 100 barrels when OPEC had the power.
It went down when the shale gas broke their market share, low gas price are because there are more producers.
Some twisted logic you have here..you're living a twisted dream rolled in nightmares here.

I don't know how to explain you as I've tried 100 times till now with no effect.
There is no rule here all the miners should make a profit or even ROI.
And there shouldn't be one!!!!!

Free market! One of the reasons bitcoin exists, one of the things it represents..and you try to smash it.

[Sandal_Hat]

Dude, I never tried to hide. I wrote in other topics also that I am mining. Thank god I have alot more S9 and L3s lol and I bought all my S9s at the lower 1.4-1.6k price and I have been mining for awhile in the better months.

Every miner gives a damn actually. And that includes new-wannabe-miners such as yourself. Nobody would want a miner that cant break even especially when the ROI looked so good just before u make that purchase. It is better u dont waste your money. Unfortunately, for those who ordered miners 2 months ago where mining profits are at an all time high, some may not break even if their machine breaks just after the 6month warranty period.

If btc is built on POS, I would have more btc and no miners lol. No point comparing 2017 because bitcoin price mooned 15-20x in 2017. That is unlikely to happen this year and impossible to happen yearly....mkt cap would be insane then. If price goes to 100, everyone loses. More manufacturers wont be good, that would mean difficulty jumping more every 2 months because more miners arrive. Samsung will probably lose money when they come in here unless there is major increase in btc price suddenly. But this sort of venture is a small loss to them and they can take it.

Btw, free market is silly here. And even YOUR OWN USA laws has catch limits on fishing because there is only so much that can be earned from fishing and overfishing kills all profits pretty quickly. Same for mining, there is only so much to be earned. The only difference is the lead time before shit-hits-the-fan is longer in fishing than mining. Same for OPEC where they need to cut/increase production in advance because new production takes like a year to come online. U dont want oil to go up and down by 100 dollars per barrel a year lol...and throw things into chaos. Thus, people plan in advance.

Are you actually comparing bitcoin mining to fishing?
Seriously? I'm taking back my words on you not being one of those r people.

Fishing limits are put in place because if we fish too much there will be no fish left next year.
What is the parallel with bitcoin? If the hash rate goes 10 times this year there will be no bitcoins next year?
Seriously? Oh, and by the way, it's not my own USA , I'm not american and I don't know how you've come to this idea.

Secondary, oil was at 100 barrels when OPEC had the power.
It went down when the shale gas broke their market share, low gas price are because there are more producers.
Some twisted logic you have here..you're living a twisted dream rolled in nightmares here.

I don't know how to explain you as I've tried 100 times till now with no effect.
There is no rule here all the miners should make a profit or even ROI.
And there shouldn't be one!!!!!

Free market! One of the reasons bitcoin exists, one of the things it represents..and you try to smash it.

Omg , it is not about fishing or mining. It is the concept of how oversupply destroys everything.....
If u allow overfishing, there will still be fish next year, but just so little fish that no fisherman can make a profit or breakeven on it. U dont overfish, so, there will be profit for the fisherman each year.
Similarly to bitcoin, we should not over-deploy miners, so there will be a reasonable profit next month and a possible breakeven for the machine going forward. There is limited amount to earn from mining or fishing, so, dont overdo it, or no one wins.
An example - watch dirty money episode about maple syrup on netflix. Their maple syrup industry only stopped making losses after they controlled supply. It is not just maple syrup, fishing and oil. There are all sorts of federations/organizations that prevent oversupply for alot of things that u do not know about lol. Oil projects take a year to produce any oil. If they dont plan it properly, u gonna see oil prices up and down 150-200 dollars yearly due to supplies going up and down erratically...

Such things are still considered free markets, juz smarter. Sure, there is no such rule but it could be bad and alot of unnecessary losses for new miners/manufacturers going forward. It is stupid to waste time/money/electricity when it can be avoided. There are tons of warnings on ICOs because people can lose their money. Mining is more expensive but they are no warnings on those. News sources even sensationalize it lol...And when things go wrong, alot will say that mining is a scam, like the the D3 thread lol.



It reminds me of the Baltic dry index. The index measures the freight rate or bulk carriers ships.

At its height, tons of investors bought new ships expecting a HUGE return....as seen on the index.
Ships take 2-3 years to be manufactured and delivered.
So, when the ships are delivered, there were just too MANY of them and thus, the index (freight rate) dropped greatly due to oversupply. The 2009 recession helped some too.
But, even after dry bulk trade volume and other sectors recovered from the crisis, the dry bulk index remained very low, even today, due to oversupply.
The index has remained at that collapsed rate for the last decade. Yep, decade, partly because ships are built to last 20-25 years lol.
End result is the shippers (miners) and shipyards (asic miners) made huge losses and many went bankrupt lol. Also, there were huge job losses and waste of fuel by vessels idling around. No one wins!!
A decade of such isnt a normal or smart thing. Hmmm I wonder if this will occur here.

I support free markets too but it is best to have some kinda understanding and co-op in such markets.