Bitcoin Forum

I'm a little bit confused guys. For example The situation is you bought an altcoin for 1 btc, let's say 1btc=10,000. so you bought an altcoin and you gained a profit so your 1btc became 1.2btc and you sold iyour altcoin for 1.2btc, but the value of btc drops let's say 1btc=9,000.. that way you will lose right? but will you regain your money or profits if the value of btc comes back to 10,000 another day? and you will have the 1.2btc=12,000? is that right? thanks for your answers.

Sorry because I didn't deliver it fluently but for those who understand what I mean, can I ask your opinion? Thanks! 

You got it right, but that is only when your goal is to ultimately have more USD. I'm trading against BTC to ultimately have more of it, regardless of its fiat value. I'm doing so with all my all my airdropped and forked coins. I'm not focusing on trading Bitcoin for fiat but on trading altcoins for Bitcoin, so I'm mainly interested in how the alts are holding against it. To be honest, if you're trading cryptocurrency pairs for BTC not tether or fiat, it's hard to keep track of your fiat profits. I have no Idea how people manage to do both on a daily basis. 

Yeah, you will lose some of your gains, but you would still be in profit.
So you bought an altcoin for 1 BTC and bitcoin price is at $10k.
Now you made a profit of 0.2 BTC by selling your altcoin, you now have a total of 1.2 BTC.
That 1.2 BTC will be worth $10800 when price of BTC will be $9k, you'll be up $800.

Yes that's correct.
When BTC price recovers back to $10k you'll have more USD profit(+$1200 or $12k total).

Yes you got it right, When you bought bitcoin you gained more (base on your examples) due to price value increase. I would like to give a suggestion you should download an application its blockfolio. You can use this to be upted on the value (sky rocket)increase and decreasing the is going or still to happen.

By this application you can now not loose any profit if you online 24/7 becauase you can't be updated because no Internet  connection. This application is kind an alarm so holders and trading can know what will they do next.

the smaller the bitcoin and the higher the altcoin, the more btc it will have and thus it will accumulate bitcoin because it buys it cheaper, it will not lose its profits if it sells these bitcoins until its price rises above the price it bought.

You are correct that if you increase the amount of Bitcoin you own but the value in US dollars per Bitcoin drops, you could still lose money. You may have a goal to increase Bitcoin regardless of the Bitcoin value if you trust that eventually Bitcoin will increase in value later. That is a legitimate strategy. There are many different trading strategies and they will depend on your particular goals.

I would suggest you do not sell in btc, you can sell in eth and eth have stable price. so I think we can make sales comparison by using btc or eth to make bigger profit.

In context bitcoin and altcoin development is quite related to each other where its ability to progress and to develop is on the hands of the supporters or the user of Bitcoin in terms of transactions and establishing an investment for future and for us to earn and gaming profit.

Yes you calculate it correctly, that is why I suggest you to trade using fiat, so its not too confusing, if you trade it with btc, you need extra job to see the btc price, either it's up or down, and to be honest it's bit difficult to calculate the profit when you trade like that, and in your case if the bitcoin price going up again then you will get more profit

Wow thanks guys! You are a huge help! I have been thinking about it for few days already but I still can't get it so I posted here, and I am really glad that this forum can always help me whenever I have questions on my mind. Trading really can be easier if you have someone you can learn from. I will download the blockfolio later it seems like very helpful to prevent losses.

Can I ask with this strategy of yours since I notice it's quite common with old timers here. Are you of the genuine belief BTC will be adopted as a world currency and accepted for global payment of goods and services, and this is why your primary goal is to be rich in BTC over fiat? Also have you been successful diversifying in alts to make gains in BTC or did BTC as an overall outperform this strategy?

The coz of ur headache is that you are still thinking in fiat!
If you forget about fiat currency and thinking by bitcoin everything would be solved!

For newcomer in altcoin trading for the better trade in crypto paired with USD so will be more easy to trade and to calculate profit/loss. When we are trade in paired BTC with altcoin is more difficult to trade because we should be make analysis in 2 different price.

Agree with you for now he should concentrate on the profits in terms of bitcoin not in the USD because the price of bitcoin will jump later at the end of this year so keep doing that then you will have good return.

what if the prediction is going backward, I do that every time but always go the wrong way and the best way to leave that coin in the personal wallet for many decades

Simple math, do your own calculations.
If you can't count this, don't invest.

Your truly correct and they have great points, even if bitcoin go down the price always remember the goal here is to increase the number of the bitcoin profits because in times of bitcoin price pumping again and again your profits become hugable thats called hold for long term of Bitcoin holders.
Buy and hold are the best strategy to earn profits.

Agree. It is more simple if we always trade alts against BTC.

In the fact, there are many persons want to make so called Real Profit, then they can calculate the Profit against USD or USDT, it is also simple.

Yes, when I started trading as well it makes me confused about how I am going to compute if I already gain or not since bitcoin price vary from time to time, but through analyzing and experience I had eventually have my own computation, it is hassle actually and needs a lot of patience and your time.

I know it can be confusing to start trading with bitcoin, but your example was correct, however when you invest bitcoin we need to look at the earnings in bitcoin, so investing 1 BTC in an alt and then getting 1.2 BTC means you multiplied your holdings even if the price of bitcoin went down, I know that many care more about the price in dollars and there is nothing wrong with that but if you invest bitcoin the most important thing are your bitcoin profits.

If you are used to crypto market then the trading is good for you to start the bitcoin and altcoin trading all of them are good to take a start the fee for trading is also reasonable and if the governments start the businesses over the internet then the crypto currencies will be more valuable and all the altcoin prices will also high with this strategy and it is said that in the year 2018 the businesses will start online payments then the crypto currency will also a big role in the society to fulfill the people needs.

He is correct, you are correct, but you need to see a bigger picture here. You have 1 BTC and that is 10k dollars, what you wish to have more in couple weeks? Everyone should know that first, wbitcoin final goal. Market is working all the time, if you wish to make more bitcoins you do that by investing in some alts or icos, but then you move dollars on a side, you watch prices in bitcoins and pairs with bitcoin. If you wish more dollars you watch pairs with dollars. Its different topic what will go up or down, and other predictions, what is important is that you need to know what you wish and to know where to watch to get what you need more.

Many companies especially in Japan are starting to paid their employees thru bitcoin, and I think its good idea since the value rises over time, its an instant investment. As well the availability of it to be adapted is way easy too there are ICO that uses blockchain system for a proper distribution of funds.

Well your English is way too easy to understand than others. Good effort.

Same thing happens withe the altcoin you will buy. They also fluctuate in USD value. Actually almost every coin except the dead ones and Tether which is one is to one USD.
Now, you will just have to wait for bitcoin to line up again with the price you have bought it then you could withdraw if that is your choice or wait for it to fluctuate up, if ever it will happen. I am not suggesting it for I dont want you to blame me if something horrible happens.

You've understood better about trading, to overcome the loss happening with time traders use different strategies and avoid the losses. This is the responsibility of the trader, while few traders just have patience and hold it and spend only when the price increases as expected.

Altcoin trading can be risky and it is not suitable for everyone. Be careful when you try to swim in waters that full of sharks ;) Pump and Dump can destroy whole concept of project because investors are loosing the confidence in this price range.

Yes you are right about that. But as coolcoinz mentioned, only if you want to have more fiat money at the end of the day. In my opinion BTC value will rise vs Fiat year by year so you do not have to worry about the dips meanwhile. I think you are on the right path to success.  ;)

I could not say it better this idea of not looking at the numbers is just simple to some but i now see not all people think this way... its hand in pai with the raise in pop and news and social references.... interesting how ideas of value are so different.

I guess you have gained answers already and you understood it correctly on how you are losing and earning on altcoin --> bitcoin trading.

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You're not helping though, what project are you talking about? He's just asking about the logic of his profits and the way it will lose when value goes down.

Maybe she's just telling the truth, well we all know that trading is risky, and before we start we need to know first everything we can face If we do it, all i can say is before you start trading try to control first your emotions, because you can easily panic in the first time you do it.

Really true, your mindset is right. I'll do what the people do to make money, never sell when the price go drop or just come back into beginning. We trade/ invest to make money and our asset ( time, fund )should become profit. But now I try to understand old pattern about " split " money into some coins, so if one coins get drop maybe I can get from another one. Good luck with you.

Our enemy here is our weakness in managing our emotion, if we are educated enough and we know what we are doing, we should stay strong in holding.
It's volatile and the price will pump and dump for many reasons but always believe that there will always be the right time to sell for a profit.

First of all, when you’re investing into Bitcoin, your plan is not to make more Bitcoin or to make more altcoins, what comes to your mind first is to make more dollars right? So if you bought Bitcoin as the rate of $10,000 and it happened that it dropped to the rate of $9000, as of then it is at the rate of $9000 you are making loss.

But it when it gets up to $12,000 you’re making profit. That’s it. I don’t know my answer gives you what you want to learn…. If not, I hope someone else explains better.

That is not a complicated computation for me, but you explain it more complicated I think. If you bought altcoins, just stick the computation in your altcoins, not in btc first. for example 10,000 = 1 btc ( as you said ) , then other day 9,000 altcoins = 1btc ( where are the 1000 altcoins? ) , better if you said 1000 altcoins = 1.2 btc ( this is you get profit, right? ) . So the 1.2 btc = 12 000 altcoins is not exist folks, you still have 10 000 altcoins that is equal to 1.2 btc. Because the one that you count is the currency/value of altcoin, not the bitcoin. When in comes of trading, you gonna count the value of altcoins and bitcoin too. Cause that two is volatile when in comes of currency. Hoping that I help you ( but I think, I add another riddle to you, lol )

That is the point. In order to get benefit out of bitcoin trading, a person must first fully understand the advantages and disadvantages of this currency. That is only possible if he would learn things by himself. The best is to do research by your own. In this way, an investor can discover minor details also. Trading is a risky profession and bitcoin is the most fluctuating digital coin. It is a difficult job but beneficial also. Patience is the key to success.

The prices of crypto currencies in general are volatile, including BTC and altcoins of course. Trading altcoins with BTC is the most used and famous method, but firstly you need to make your plan, and to determine your goals . If you re going to hold BTC for long time, the price volatility will not affect you hardly, because the price will go up sooner or later.

Altcoins are best option for trading,Before trading just be careful invest in profitable coins having stable market and do not invest at one place.Many stable coin now cheaper but in future it will grow more.For trading any coins have fluctuation of price which are best for trading.

Trading no doubt is a risky thing, there's no investment that is not risky.

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Controlling of emotion will just come afterwards when you are already there so if you think that is the right thing to do, then follow your own will.

Beginners are not suit for the trading because they don't know anything in trading strategy so better invest in long term holding is the right way to earn more profit in cryptocurrency. Your suggestion is good but familiar people only survive this platform.

You are mainly underestimating people when it comes to trading and come to think of that those professional persons you do said are once a newbie before which means everyone can freely start up on engaging theirselves on doing trading.Its true that it isnt easy at all but would really depend on how serious you are on learning it.Its not really necessary for you to discourage someone who do like to trade because he dont have any knowledge.We do always start without any having idea in a certain thing.

What are you talking about, all traders started as newbie so it's the start of the journey.
No one automatically get's better in trading without practicing, that is why we have to consider it as a long journey where we have to develop
ourselves so eventually we will be successful.

I am not underestimate the beginners still market is fluctuating so trading is not a better platform for newbie  . Everyone comes in the beginner I agree that but once failed in the beginner they are all afraid in trading. So I am not suggesting the current situation.

I think that we are starting a bitcoin business that is a challenging and dangerous journey for beginners, but in return after the time we stick to the patience we have been working on it. It has become a good source of income for us.

You will only make profit or loss when you will sell your coins so it's hard to conclude whether you are in profit or loss even though your total Bitcoin holding has increased after some trading. Most of the time I quickly sell Bitcoin which I have made with trading to book my profit.

All the crypto are good for trading and in the future bitcoin is the world best currency the year 2017 is very shine year for us and if we start altcoin trading this will be a good profitable coin for me i would like to use my altcoin for this way and i hope that it is good in the market that we hold bitcoin and altcoin now the market is good and safe people are happily come to this side.

for today it is already noticeable that a lot of ico companies are produced, with rather promising projects. Thus, we can safely count on a successful trade in coins.

As far as I am concerned, the essence of my own trading anyway is to increase my bitcoin in anyway, and I am so tired of fiat. Bitcoin is always going to recover irrespective of what the value is presently, and the only thing that would make me lose anything is if I sell at loss, once it recovers, it gets huge and trading with altcoins is to increase the number of bitcoins and in that case, I also consider USDT or USD as the case may be as an altcoin too if you know what I mean.

I really do not see much question in that as you have answered it yourself and common sense obviously gives that once the value is back to the same amount you got it, then you are back to the same amount it was before. Unless you want to decide to start trading in fiat to increase your bitcoin, but in the long run, if you are trading alts, to increase your bitcoin, you should not bother yourself about the present value as long as you are not selling for loss.

So tell me when you just started trading what do you think of yourself then? I bet you're also a beginner. ;D
So if a beginner isn't suitable to do trading when he can start then? I mean what you'd said is just totally absurd.

We all started to scratch and eventually gain knowledge and experience in trading, yes we did some mistakes but these mistakes also taught and made us what we are now.

OP I think whatever we paired to our trading isn't that much important and what should be prioritize is how can we profit and lessen the losses.

That will come naturally i guess. Exposing yourself to the ups and downs of trading will eventually make you more experienced in it. That's why its important to have a little practice fund that you can already consider as a loss.

With whatever i have understand about trading and especially crypto trading.I think altcoin trading is more profitable than bitcoin.Here you have range for your investment and you can manipulate with them too earn more profits but it is not the case with bitcoin.

It is not every time ETH usually has a stable price but considering other coins anyway, and the level of volatility, ETH seems more stable than most of the coins, being an inflationary currency anyway. From what he has said, I do not see a reason why the OP should be worried if he is holding his bitcoin for the long term and in the short term, trading with altcoins, is increasing his bitcoin quantity, so at the end for him, it will always be a winning situation.

Trading is not that easy, because it too risky. So strategy is very important.
In your case, it is good. The more btc you will earn from trading altcoin the more usd you can get when the price of btc get higher.
Its a matter of patience and hardwork to become successful in here.

Absolutely, a good answer comes in a daytrading those case might be stop if you are 24/7 tune in to the happenings of value. It could risk if you trade only at a time because this kind of business is quickiness ability with analytical strategy are being used to make a ptofitable output.

The profit depends on the desired currency the OP is expecting. The question is when will he cash out, will he hold his altcoins he traded Bitcoin for on a long-term, will he later regain the Bitcoin or something else. I am looking at the altcoin trading in a long term.
To me, it doesn't matter if the certain altcoins or the Bitcoin will drop when the market is the big fluctuation phase because I know that the altcoin I have invested in has the possibility to reach my desired goals.
If the OP is trading for the FIAT and using decentralized currencies for the daily living then the amount loses in a couple of days when the market falls means significantly to him and he cannot afford himself to wait a couple of days more for a market to regain itself. Because of that, I support people that have their day jobs and they do investment as a hobby.
Those who are depending on the market trades without some background financial capability are taking a high risk of losing everything.

In fact, unless he has decided to sell the bitcoin for less of what it was, and bitcoin climbed back up, that is when he has lost and as long as he is still holding, he is still in profit. After all, from the look of things, his target is to increase his bitcoin anyway, which is what he is already doing, unless he wants to trade the bitcoin against fiat to increase the number of bitcoin as well in that way. Unless I did not get the OP well, but logically, he already answered his own question from the question.

By looking at the amount of Bitcoin you have, increase the number, look at it and see that you are profitable to increase the amount of Bitcoin you own. But do not look at the Bitcoin price before and after you own it because in trading we look at the amount of Bitcoin we earn to determine if we are profitable.

Well this is bit tricky as it depends on what is the price of alt when your BTC regain it's position because ultimately your profit count is the price on which you sold your alts.soo if that price is same you will regain your profit but if that increases than the amount that is increases is counted as the loss for you.hope this will be usefull for you.

Altcoin Trading is good options which you can earn huge profit buy some coins which are well reputed and buy also at the lowest price by following the condition of the market and then after little wait try to sell at Bull stage,

I am a trader, and I can tell you that this is a profitable deal. All traders are aiming to increase their Bitcoin numbers through trading, which may be in dollars lower than before, but everyone knows that Bitcoin will go up quickly and not worry about this.

I believe you should trade altcoin right at this point, it can be seen that the prices of bitcoin and altcoin are steadily increasing in the past days. Last but not least, bitcoin is showing signs of improvement and this is the best time for you to trade altcoin. The market is very active today and the prices of almost all coin are rising, so plan your investment in detail so that you can reduce the risk of falling bitcoins.

That can be called as profit maybe he doesn't recognize it because in bitcoin value it was been dump but in Bitcoin amount he gains so the thing is when bitcoins pumps back it will be a double profit. If you want to fully understand this numbers game you need to compute your earnings in which you prefer either in dollar or in satoshi's.

When bitcoin back to the price when you bought it will give you income but for me you don't need to worry about that price change too much because you came here in crypto currency world knowing that these kind of situation are just part of bitcoin or any alt coins lives. The best thing you will do is to continue your work as a trader and we know bitcoin and alt coins are starting to gain price increase in the past weeks so eventually all your hard work will be paid off and I know you will see that as soon as possible.

This is a very nice tread because it has a huge amount of help for it and for others who want to trade but fear because I do not have enough knowledge how to do it and what it is. It is easier for them to be able to vote.

Try to do it with just minimal amount so that you could also experience it.
There is no better teacher than you being on the front line and to feel what will be the risk of trading.

You cannot get it all with just reading over and over again. You need to try.
Started that way and then getting more information with others experiences.

Alternativecoins in trading is somehow good to use in this business because they are the most affordable coins with good quality also and can makes you profitable in daily basis in terms of income.

I do understand your point. But I was thought to calculate Crypto based on satoshi and not directly with USD or its fiat value. From your analysis, you made profit but felt like in lose because of your fiat value consideration.

No only in crypto trading but in every kind of trading either it is a real day trading you have to accept the fact that you can face a lot of difficulties, some time you will lose your money in trading while other time it will give you a good profit, profit and lost is a part of trading but you just need to be careful and should make a good strategy while putting your money for trading.

I think you should not trade altcoin at this time, you can see that the bitcoin girl has been steadily dropping in recent days and still has no clear signs of recovery, so investing in altcoin at the time This risk will be very high when bitcoin prices can continue to drop sharply at any time. You should only trade short and should close the transaction in day to minimize risk.

Yes it is right but that trading is termed as negative trading in which you are depend on somebody every right is in your hand so in that sense the profit margin of that trading depends on others.This kind of trading really works in the market but only when the amount you invested is surplus.

I think this is a good time to invest in altcoin because the opportunity for growth is very high, while almost all altcoins are at very low prices compared to before. I predict the market will grow strongly in the coming time and create new milestones.

Dont do trading if you dont know how to trade (as seen on your thread) so the best thing that you can do is just try to learn at the moment, and as soon as you understood it at 100%, then you can start to trade safely.

This time it is very suitable for you to trade altcoin, you can see that bitcoin prices are constantly increasing and this has caused altcoin to recover very strongly. According to my analysis, bitcoin prices will probably rebound to $ 7000, so this is a great time for you to buy and trade altcoin. I think to minimize the risk, you should invest in the top 10 http://coinmarketcap.com

      Your calculation is right. If you buy altcoins in a cheaper price when btc is at higher value you will gain profit but if the bitcoin price drop you will loss if sell in a lower price. Try to hold and wait the price increase again so that you can earn profit from your investment with out losing your initial capital in btc.

I think that this time is very suitable for you to buy and trade altcoin, the market is showing signs of recovery when bitcoin prices are increasing continuously and is currently adjusted at $ 6700 level. I think the bitcoin price will still be able to keep rising so you can rest assured buying and trading altcoin. Make a transaction plan that will minimize your risk.

If I think Altcoin is the best choice for trading, Before trading we just be careful investing in profitable coins have a stable market and do not invest in one place.Most of the time I quickly sell Bitcoin that I make with a trade to book my profit in exchange.

Now a days the trading is a profitable business and the benefits can be checked through the market like now many coins are circulating in the market and the users buy and sell coins for their willing and the traders trade these at a certain commission so they are in the position to get the money over not doing any hard work.

Market is recovering, capital increase?

Yes that is right,
I use BTCTC as my capital in trading.
I bought my BTCTC at 15,000
Even though I lost more than 50%
I am still optimistic, because I believe BTCTC will rise again
I am slowy regaining my losses through trading.

Altcoins are the best coins for trading purpose through this you can get good profit earnings but you be careful about marketing strategy.

if bitcoin price returns or bitcoin price goes up then you will get profit, if I trading I never sell my trading result, usually I sell if there is a need. I prefer to keep bitcoin out of money.

If we are looking at the fact that some of them may have bottomed out, then, we could say it would be ok to pick them but not still without some stop loss as the case may be since the possibility and likelihood of seeing them drop very fast in the case where bitcoin starts getting dumped is there.

Till now, we have seen some little bit of move for some of them as it is now, but nothing is guaranteed yet as chances are that bitcoin is still in a downtrend anyway and only if we can see a very good bounce on bitcoin at some point, with the likelihood of moving upward in a side manner for some time, before we will be able to see something tangible with the altcoins.

Is it question and answer (which you did yourself) to clear your doubt? If yes, then you have already clear the easy question and your answer also fine for all. We are all for money (cash). so it's easy to understand profit and loss by the cash money. We know all coin are virtual, not physical so we should calculate profit and loss depending on physical money. Although I love BTC

If I think this is a very good move because we have a lot of help for it and for others who want to trade in the world of cryptos in doing business because they are the most affordable coins with good quality too and can make us profitable every day in terms of income.

I'm a little bit confused also in your statement it's kinda hard to grasp the true meaning of your sentences so I'll be advising a little off from this. Based on your words it is the basic buy and selling act where you buy low or even high then sell for higher price of course referring to the market is preferably good since it might guide you to an advantage in the future.

Not actually. You are trading vs BTC and you are tryong to make more bitcoin because (probaly like a lot of people on this forum) we belive that BTC will go up in price long term

It's correct. I also like your way. Often there are new profits to sell. They almost kept them. At some point, sell a little to get a profit. To create the flow of the market. When there are changes to buy back to expand the property. That is my opinion.

You are right and your thoughts are clear here. It depends on what bitcoin price is.  But it always profitable when bitcoin price increase. Like Bitcoin down at 9K USD and you have 1.2 BTC, you may trade again or keep them hold. Because we everyone know that bitcoin will hit 10K PLus USD Anytime. Now, I would suggest you trade with bitcoin pairs instead of Altcoin. Trading with bitcoin pair is more profitable. I am talking about like NEO to BTC, EOS to BTC trade pair.

We can't deny that trading is having a good way of earning than of keep on holding. Though trading is riskier than of other fields but it won't be feel if you are focusing on it and you are enjoying it. Only few individuals have fully on their way as becoming a trader due to time spend and mostly investors aren't in crypto at all times.

For altcoin trading i prefer to chooce pair altcoin vs USDT so will be more easy to calculate profit/loss. Pair USDT also make more easy to predict the price because we only make analysis in 1 coin. And to trade many potential coin with pair USDT, there are already many exchanges listed this pair like Binance, Okex, huobi etc.

Less valuable coins will result in lesser profit as compared to that of more valuable of same quantity. Now Altcoin is less valuable than the Bitcoin, Ethereum and some other cryptocurrencies so its will produce lesser profit as compared to all the other cryptocurrencies.

You are a productive person if you spread all your savings in different sources of high life and profit so it also better to start with Altcoin as well.

You invest very well when take Bitcoin to buy Altcoins and take a profit.
If you see Bitcoin is going down, you should transfer to usdt immediately to avoid losing money.

Always the way to go for anyone who does not know how to trade. Trading is not a small thing to just tamper with and altcoin trading takes a lot of knowledge and experience about the market to be able to get the best of them in the long run.

Anyone who is trying to just pick the bottom in altcoins may not actually have been able to pick enough yet with the likelihood of some of them dropping further, so in that case, it is always very good to look at bitcoin movement as a signal as well when considering entering into altcoins.

I am thinking that the better way is not to count your tokens in a dollar equivalent, it is better to come down in Ether or Bitcoin instead, and yes you can never know for sure how much do you earn here it is just what it is.

Before decide to trade altcoin with pair USDT or BTC , i think firstly we should be look first the trend of Bitcoin price. If the trend of Bitcoin price just like now that the price in the bottom and have potential to going up more is better to trade altcoin with BTC, but if the trend of BTC going to down is better to trade altcoin with stable coin, now alot of exchange offer stable coin like USDT, TUSD, DAI to trade altcoin.