Bitcoin Forum

In addition to my suggestion of school based and community coins for groups or businesses...

Imagine if instead of other forums hating on coins (It's basically taboo on most forex forums, and other forums to mention coins and tell people to buy them) , it became a trend on the internet for forum owners to come here and find coin creators, then get coins created for their forum.

What if we had a trend of FORUM based coins. Kinda like how this forum is based on bitcoin, so it exploded. If a forum with millions of daily hits (say...GaiaOnline, since it is a major forum that already uses coins, and has a largely non-bitcoin crowd as of now) started a 50% mine-able, limited production coin (instead of the coin they have now which you earn for doing things on the site, but can not be taken off the site, and is like WoW gold instead of bitcoins). That coin would probably be the most popular altcoin OVER NIGHT.

We just need to realize that altcoins are never going to over take bitcoin, all they can hope to do is support it.

Well yes, the time of the alts is yet to come. I'm putting my hopes up in CGB and MEC.

Coins like Ixcoin, I0coin, Devcoin, Groupcoin, Fairbrix, Tenebrix, Coiledcoin, GeistGeld, BBQcoin and probably others have had some success using the approach outlined in http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=cpu_mining as a kind of "CPU mining" type of thing that does not require super hardware and which is not all that great for botnets either...

-MarkM-

But what about when Bitcoin is being considered by people in poverty as a means to pull themselves up by their boot straps? What about when it is being talked about in every highschool in the country, and kids too young to work and not computer literate enough to mine want to get them?

The answer will be "Alt-coins".

But there will be a massive market for non-mining individuals soon, and without an alternative to mining they will drop the idea of Bitcoin altogether.

I don't follow.  Where does the real-world wealth come from?  What will those pull-up-by-their-own-bootstraps people be doing that makes the world a better place and makes them wealthier?

I suspect you might be confusing "money" with "wealth."

I don't follow.  Where does the real-world wealth come from?  What will those pull-up-by-their-own-bootstraps people be doing that makes the world a better place and makes them wealthier?

I suspect you might be confusing "money" with "wealth."

Well any business that sells its goods or services in cryptocoins could offer its employees their pay in such coins. Maybe as more crypto millionaires arise there will be more lawn-mowing window-washing and so on jobs available paid in cryptocoins?

CGB has PoS coin generation to take over as PoW generation is reduced. Check it out
http://cryptogenicbullion.org/#about

But it would be 100,000x better if there were altcoin companies popping up for this purpose, instead of existing companies having to invest (and give away) more in bitcoin just to pay other people on a regular basis.

They don't have to invest in bitcoin, just accept it.

What if schools started using them as promotions to gain funds for education. What if businesses used them as a "Toys R Us bucks" type system.

It opens up so many doors.

See TAGcoin.

-MarkM-

Like what if 50% of China coin went to paying people to translate chinese news into english and vice versa. The coins would explode, and so would the BTC market as news began to flow faster.

People can post such news, at least the English translation of the Chinese news, in their own words of course not simple thheft-by-translation of other people's articles, on Devtome to earn Devcoins...

-MarkM-

I discovered a few things over the past few days, and thought I would share the info with you.

1. You can get INTEREST (Earn money for coins in the bank) on coins you deposit here https://mcxnow.com/exchange/DVC FOR ALMOST ANY COIN

2. You can earn FREE coins writing here http://www.devtome.com/doku.php PLEASE TELL STUDENTS THEY CAN POST HOMEWORK HERE FOR EXTRA MONEY ONCE IT GETS GRADED (so the teacher doesn't find it online and think they copied it, when the article is really theirs to start with)

any questions? ask here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997

You can trade those coins on MCXnow for BTC, and Bitcoins can be used to buy basically anything.

And if you go on amazon, and buy one of these headsets… http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008MR36FE/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=22UQHYGA6B63Q&coliid=I1F1YDGF19DIQF

You can earn free coins on that website just by talking into that headset and posting it to Devtome. Like telemarketing, but without bothering anyone, and talking about your own interests. (you could even just watch TV and talk about what you are watching) THIS IS THE PERFECT GIFT FOR ANYONE WITHOUT A JOB

SPREAD THE WORD!!!! & Devcoin is on the rise!!!

If you want to start accepting Devcoins at your business you can get a wallet address to use for accepting deposits at MCXnow.com, there is a link above. Make sure to post to all the Devcoin links in my message above (MCX and Bitcointalk), telling people that your business now accepts them. It will bring you traffic to your company.

Also, if you work the MCX market right (buy the right alt-coin at the right time), you can make money just like someone who day trades stocks. And if you do this quickly you can make some good money. As of now the Devcoin markets don't move much because no one was informed about their existence. So, you can go on MCXnow with Bitcoins, buy altcoins, then take those altcoins to Vircurex.com and buy cheap Devcoins (because the MCXnow and Vircurex Markets don't stabilize at the same time or rate). Then you can take those cheap Devcoins, and sell them for Bitcoins at a profit at MCXnow. You just have to use the right coin at the right time.

MCXnow also allows you to buy “stocks” by buying a coin on the site called “MCFee”. The more MCFees you have the more you get paid daily as the site makes money.

We are fairly new on the market, but we are already finding that people are willing to earn coins in different ways. We started a couple of days ago giving away TagCoin to those who referred others to our site. To avoid spamming the system we are adding mobile verification to avoid spammers and bots.

We've now enabled a community to offer coin rewards in their choice of coin, for internal actions within Tagbond (Join the community, refer a friend to join, or write a review). We will shortly add the ability to offer rewards based on what actions a user does on an external website, using a small bit of javascript and our API (actions are onClick and onLoad so far). You can decide to use the mobile verification or not.

In addition to the rewards actions on our site or other sites, anyone can create marketing modules (Tagverts) - mini shopping carts, coupons, loyalty stamps, competitions, auctions and more. So altcoins can be used in these ways:

- Give rewards to the customer for using a Tagvert (ie: buy a meal at a restaurant using coins as discount method), or give coins to a user to actually go to the restaurant to eat.
- Sell items via the site for alt coins
- Give alt coins as referral fees to people who share their Tagverts on  facebook, blogging sites, websites, or in person.

We have added a few altcoin types into the system, and will add more - the end result is that we want to make crypto currencies used more in the real world, as a rewards currency that people will want to then spend on other things.

Merchants need customers, customers want to spend their rewards with merchants - the system should appeal to both sides of the coin..:)

I don't follow.  Where does the real-world wealth come from?  What will those pull-up-by-their-own-bootstraps people be doing that makes the world a better place and makes them wealthier?

I suspect you might be confusing "money" with "wealth."

Well yes, the time of the alts is yet to come. I'm putting my hopes up in CGB and MEC.

Devcoin yes, the other 3 are crap.

any coin can implement their features at any time. Guess why this isn't happening..sigh

The interest in Bitcoin and other alt coins, and in earning them in a way other than mining is much more of an incentive at the moment than just giving money, as we are finding at Tagbond Rewards. People want to earn a few coins to see what it is all about - people like my mother for example..:-)...They may not know too much about the technical aspects of coins, but they do want to have a few and play with the new technology. So the whole crypto market should take advantage of this while the interest is there and push coins out to play with, or use in the real world for things other than just an investment. Sooner or later it will really go mainstream and then the world will truly learn the benefits of this new tech. We are working on making this happen, not only with our own TagCoin, but with any coin that wants to become part of the system, and be used for rewards, e-commerce etc. We've built a platform that doesn't cost anything to use - our model is based around a pay only on results version of google adsense.

So, create a community on Tagbond, give rewards out in coins of your choice for joining that community, inviting others to join and write reviews for you, create marketing modules (tagverts) that give some benefit to the customer and perhaps getting them to spend coins on whatever you have to offer, and you have created your own system that turns an alt coin into a currency, not just a commodity. Help us create a powerful eco system to push crypto forward and be accepted by everyone.

I have just read that Gamecoin offers coins for Minecraft (probably a better payout than BTC servers) and porn coin pays for porn reviews.

This isn't even the future, it's happening NOW.

Devcoin -Development, Coding and Writing
Tagcoin - Rewards
Gamecoin - Gaming Payment
Porncoin - Porn Watching Payment

Plus mcxnow offers interest like a bank on your Bitcoins and Devcoins (and a few miner coins). BTC is moving forward.

Why it isn't happening? Because on a technical scale it's not worth anyone's time, poor little features for children and old people.

In addition to my suggestion of school based and community coins for groups or businesses...

Imagine if instead of other forums hating on coins (It's basically taboo on most forex forums, and other forums to mention coins and tell people to buy them) , it became a trend on the internet for forum owners to come here and find coin creators, then get coins created for their forum.

What if we had a trend of FORUM based coins. Kinda like how this forum is based on bitcoin, so it exploded. If a forum with millions of daily hits (say...GaiaOnline, since it is a major forum that already uses coins, and has a largely non-bitcoin crowd as of now) started a 50% mine-able, limited production coin (instead of the coin they have now which you earn for doing things on the site, but can not be taken off the site, and is like WoW gold instead of bitcoins). That coin would probably be the most popular altcoin OVER NIGHT.

We just need to realize that altcoins are never going to over take bitcoin, all they can hope to do is support it.

i only hope my altcoin price will rise :D

If you say so then tell me why ppl buying altcoins

Your altcoin will only rise in price if it is used - the principle of Velocity of Money - it becomes valuable if it changes hands a lot, the more it does, the more value it has. Alt Coins cannot survive purely on the speculative hope that maybe they may rise in value to that of BitCoin - that train has already left the station. So do your part and get it in use..get your friends, relatives and anyone you know to take your choice of altcoin in exchange for something or doing something of value..:)

Make an ATM for your altcoin, place it somewhere. The result? It will be much higher than any other alt out there..  :P

not exactly a good site when the register button takes you to "Page not found"...:) I am curious how many TAG you might generate in 24 hours with a 5ghs erupter..:-) - anyone tell me?.

you my friend have a remarkably slanted point of view.

@Spoetnik

Is this proof enough it is me?


~BCX~

I'm confused...

supposedly BCX claimed he was going to attack two coins soon possibly he stated on Cryptsy chat
and i asked him how do we know its really you.. so he posted that to confirm his identity.

We must not forget the power of this technology.

What is this revolution taking us to? What is it?

This is a paradigm shift where the problem of monetizing Value has become moot; This technology allows us to do that, we can monetize any value that people are willing to support.

Anyone can now fund a cause by quantifying their contribution, whether it is by money, moral values, admiration, or any factor, this technology has truly created programmable rewards in a very complex ecosystem.

And this technology is free for everyone... just think about that; You no longer have to wonder, " how am I going to fund that cause?" What are the market constraints against what can be done with the power of human belief? none, the market value of a coin becomes it's native support among the population and the awareness of that cause.

The old world used to trade different objects for their perceived value, innovation and difficulty to make, we called it barter, but were limited by the needs of others and the transportability of those objects; This created limitations on the scope of trade.

so one day we invented money, a object, an idea that could be exchanged for anything material and could convince others to work for it to trade, this had it's limitations. The idea of trading objects/actions for objects/actions, became objects/actions for money for objects/actions, without that initial object you could not fund change to convince others toward your cause; It was limited in how abstract motives and actions could be funded," the availability of objects became the inherit limit of this technology called money."

But, this new paradigm?... it is value/belief for money for objects/actions. This new technology can fund change without the constraints of needs and wants, you can change someone's life by just belief alone, you don't even have to ask for a loan from the bank... you just have to believe in what you are doing. Quantify the efforts and contributions from the true believers of your cause and they will reward you in ways that the old system could never do.

When anyone can create money what can you fund?

All you have to do is create a double Proof of Work, Use Bitcoins POW or Litecoins scrypt, merge mine with them to gain instant security and mining power, and then distribute your coins for a cause, the work that others do is the second Proof of Work.

now anything can be funded, and the ecosystem of the Cryptocoins can thrive in a complex array of markets, not just for objects or money, but markets that gauge the demand and supply of human needs and values that before could not be monetized.

 A market where causes, beliefs, movements, ideas can be traded; The ebb and flow of the collective thoughts of humanity.


Just wait till Open Transactions is fully operational, then you will know what I am talking about, May a thousand currencies bloom.
 

To any business owner wondering: "well why would people mine my coin?"

When you post about a new coin in this altcoin thread section, and you put the title as [ANN] *Your* Coin -For X-ers (writers, bloggers, youtubers, or whatever kind of people you want to get paid)

People will mine your coin JUST FOR FUN. And some people can mine 2 coins or more at once, and you can also add to the thread that you will pay someone a bounty of coins to create a merge mine pool. Which means that anyone who mines your coin, would also mine bitcoin at the same time, which makes it more likely that they would want to do it.

 i agree, but now it is difficult time for new coin to get through

TagBond has a release of a beta android wallet that works with real currency and crypto coins we add to the system (So far Bitcoin, Litecoin, TagCoin, PrimeCoin, PeerCoin, DigitalCoin but please approach us if you are administrators of other coins, or ask  administrators to approach us if you want to see the coin here)

We are giving away 200 TagCoins if you download the android app and install it, register using the phone, then sign in using the website at tagbond.com to get your ID number from your dashboard. (We didn't add the ID to the app, will do in the next update tomorrow)

I will send it to the online account and you can see it appear in the android wallet app, and if you really want I can then transfer it to an address once the promotion is over. We are doing it manually at the moment until the wallet servers are running.

We have a couple of suggestions already and these will go into v4 which will probably be up in a day or so. One suggestion is to click on the TAG logo to refresh the wallet balances, the other is to ask for confirmation before sending.

Once you send me your ID, I will send you 1 TAG, send it back to me using the phone and I will send 2 back.

First 100 posters on this forum only..:-)

http://tagcoin.org/TagCash_V3.0.apk

As an extra feature, whoever has an rfid or NFC tag and binds it their account using an NFC phone gets a bonus of 5 TAG while this promotion is on. Simply login to the app, tap an rfid smart card, nfc tag, to the phone and it will ask to bind it your account ID. Then tell me your ID so I can check and I will send you 5 TAG

I want to add that the best coin to copy for this is Devcoin. They have a model where when I block is mined, 10% of the coins in that block go to the miner, while the other 90% goes in the wallet of a writer.

If I am a good writer, why would I pay out 10% of my income?  That is more expensive than credit card charges!

Again, don't confuse money for wealth.  Writers produce wealth in the form of the stories/articles/whatever they are writing. The currency used to trade that wealth only matters as far as:

+ What can the writer buy with it
+ If the writer saves it, will it buy more or less in the future

I feel like we're talking past each other.

You said:  dev coin is a good model-- e.g. writer creates something, uses devcoin, 90% goes to them, 10% to devcoin miner.

I don't understand why a writer wouldn't just use dollars-- create something, sell it for dollars, writer keeps 96%, PayPal gets 4% for processing the transaction.

Or Bitcoin: create something, sell it for Bitcoin, writer keeps 99% BitPay gets 1% for processing the transaction (Bitcoin can do this because it is more efficient than PayPal/credit card/traditional fiat, that is where the wealth is created).

Or is there some magical way that using an alt coin creates wealth out of thin air?  I don't see it....

I feel like we're talking past each other.

You said:  dev coin is a good model-- e.g. writer creates something, uses devcoin, 90% goes to them, 10% to devcoin miner.

I don't understand why a writer wouldn't just use dollars-- create something, sell it for dollars, writer keeps 96%, PayPal gets 4% for processing the transaction.

Or Bitcoin: create something, sell it for Bitcoin, writer keeps 99% BitPay gets 1% for processing the transaction (Bitcoin can do this because it is more efficient than PayPal/credit card/traditional fiat, that is where the wealth is created).

Or is there some magical way that using an alt coin creates wealth out of thin air?  I don't see it....

I feel like we're talking past each other.

You said:  dev coin is a good model-- e.g. writer creates something, uses devcoin, 90% goes to them, 10% to devcoin miner.

I don't understand why a writer wouldn't just use dollars-- create something, sell it for dollars, writer keeps 96%, PayPal gets 4% for processing the transaction.

Or Bitcoin: create something, sell it for Bitcoin, writer keeps 99% BitPay gets 1% for processing the transaction (Bitcoin can do this because it is more efficient than PayPal/credit card/traditional fiat, that is where the wealth is created).

Or is there some magical way that using an alt coin creates wealth out of thin air?  I don't see it....

You're trying to enlighten Gavin...Gavin Andresen or you know, only the LEAD DEVELOPER of Bitcoin!  Here let me help you out...

On the larger topic of creating wealth, accretion of wealth must be seen beyond the Efficient Markets hypothesis, that rational actors gauge the intrinsic value of a object, commodity, stock based on sound real world information. The standard interpretation is that the Gold has value because I can exchange it, but what is gold backed by? belief that it can be redeemed, no one can eat gold, but it is precious theoretically because people use it for art and technology... yet, somehow the majority of traders, trade based on trends instead of real world data to back up their assumptions.

What happens if we separate the belief, assurance, confidence from the true value of an object? What if we take into consideration how much others will want it, believe in it? Gold for example, if taken on it's pure value, how valuable is Gold truly? We must gauge it according to it's uses in Medicine, Electronics, Aeronautics, Dentistry,etc and exclude it's prestige Industries: Jewelery, Finance, Awards, etc.  The value drops dramatically if these sources of demand are excluded from considering it's value, yet people are swayed by it's prestige; So too can an idea, or cause be created by being backed by a coin, and this is not the only reason that coin would gain value.

A coin would gain value by the percentage of the population that are aware of it, by the people who believe in it's purpose, By sheer human generosity, by it's usefulness, the value of it's community, the products that use it, many many reasons, and like all values it would be changing at all times by the priority of all the factors that affect an object and the percentage of actors trading the object actively, plus of course the prestige factor of future gains, speculation.

Bitcoin has solved a lot of things, this is one of them, it is the gateway for all these alt-coins and causes to reach true wealth... Bitcoin links to true wealth directly and the new coins link to it creating a ecosystem of coins.

Now this new paradigm must be viewed as a new operational model and the potential complexity of the system may become apparent: People are creating organizations founded on an idea, a cause, a belief and applying a reward points model around it, in essence we are gamifying the system, people like to be challenged and being able to gauge there success is very appealing to people, Human psychology.

so for example. I create a merge-mined-coin as a general interface for wealth, a portal for hyper-exchangeable  items(fiat, gold, silver, etc) and tack a strongly backed cause, executed with clairvoyant precision(really good interface and marketing) with a excellent POW system in place to gauge the causes success or failure; Those who believe in the work that is being created by the people earning the rewards through the causes POW, will with generosity donate to the system with the understanding that their purchase is helping the cause by monetizing it's value, which at a later time can be redeemed back to them. If the cause is successful as more people become aware of it it will accrue value increasing marketing awareness until it reaches equilibrium of awareness and willing actors to participate in it at their own discretion.

It's a charity/NGO with a reverse payment option tagged to it. We are basically turning a Idea/Belief/Cause into a stock to fund actual real world actions.

And this response does not even address the hyper-complexity of a vast ecosystem of coinified causes... it truly is programmable money, coins within coins within coins, stacked on top of each other.

TagBond has a release of a beta android wallet that works with real currency and crypto coins we add to the system (So far Bitcoin, Litecoin, TagCoin, PrimeCoin, PeerCoin, DigitalCoin but please approach us if you are administrators of other coins, or ask  administrators to approach us if you want to see the coin here)

We are giving away 200 TagCoins if you download the android app and install it, register using the phone, then sign in using the website at tagbond.com to get your ID number from your dashboard. (We didn't add the ID to the app, will do in the next update tomorrow)

I will send it to the online account and you can see it appear in the android wallet app, and if you really want I can then transfer it to an address once the promotion is over. We are doing it manually at the moment until the wallet servers are running.

We have a couple of suggestions already and these will go into v4 which will probably be up in a day or so. One suggestion is to click on the TAG logo to refresh the wallet balances, the other is to ask for confirmation before sending.

Once you send me your ID, I will send you 1 TAG, send it back to me using the phone and I will send 2 back.

First 100 posters on this forum only..:-)

http://tagcoin.org/TagCash_V3.0.apk

As an extra feature, whoever has an rfid or NFC tag and binds it their account using an NFC phone gets a bonus of 5 TAG while this promotion is on. Simply login to the app, tap an rfid smart card, nfc tag, to the phone and it will ask to bind it your account ID. Then tell me your ID so I can check and I will send you 5 TAG

Installed the android app.  ID 4218

I went on FB search and typed in the following things, then sent it to EVERY page that came up:

Now to address the Hyper-complexity of the multi-coin paradigm without taking into account the individual programability of each coin.

Different systems will react differently when interacting with each other, but they must work within the same framework.

Imagine a world where there are thousands of POW Coins in circulation in different niches fulfilling different roles.
In low economic areas, a Demurriage Coin is in circulation to enhance commerce, in areas where inflationary coins are required they will work there, others that need a deflationary one will have that and they will interact with each other to fulfill each zones/organizations goals according to their requirements.

In the deeper system a web of currencies modifying the flow of actions acting as a signaling system for the larger efforts of society in general, people go where the value goes. Imagine a deep interconnection of a designed cryptocoin ecology system, where different specializations of knowledge workers work under different coin systems that they are able to contribute to in exchange for their specialized knowledge, POWs tailored to peoples professions constantly changing if necessary the POW to move the coins local resources in it's specified direction. Each profession entwined and signaled according to the demand of all society to promote their specialized work.
  In a more advanced and larger scope these could be entire signaling systems for world wide efforts, Human efforts controlled by intelligently designed systems fully open-source for our new interconnected world.

the progression could look like this

Objects/Actions - Hyper-exchangeable currencies both Fiat and Crypto - sub-system coins with alternate designs - Organizational coins backing a cause - precise action coins for specific professions - Hyper-flexible self organization of decentralized mega-manufacturer / mega-conglomerate / A.I. Corporation Coins. etc .

These will be remixed and upgraded in ways we cannot foresee; All I can say is it will be an impressive world with very precise metrics on all Human endeavors.

Don't do that; spamming is evil.


RE: hyper-complexity of the multi-coin paradigm:

uhhh...  Were you a postmodern lit major in college?


I've got a pretty simple, but I think fairly accurate, view of money/wealth.

I believe you can't create wealth just by printing money.  You can create the illusion of wealth (and I imagine some Keynesians would argue the illusion is enough to lubricate the economy and somehow increase productivity and growth and wealth; lets set aside that argument).

You can create wealth by making it easier for people to transact (and money is the world's best invention for doing that, barter is terribly inefficient).

I'm still stuck on how y'all think altcoins create wealth. I don't see any of them being any easier to transact than Bitcoin.

"Don't put all your eggs into one basket."

~ To avoid this situation we require more than one egg and more than one basket.  ;D

When I returned to this forum I worried that the plethora of alt. coins were stealing liquidity from the Bitcoin market with new exchanges being based in BTC i.e. BTC/LTC etc. Although a logical progression I think this partly explains the recent down trend, actually it was a major factor.

In terms of fiat we are all aware (or should be aware) that Bitcoin does in fact have comparatively low levels of market liquidity.

Alt. coins are a double edge sword. Some will rise, some will fall and others will completely disappear. The markets and the people will decide which flavor they like best. If bitcoin is the kernel then alt. coins are like distros !

Do these numerous alt. coins (and associated markets) reduce bitcoins credibility or actually increase exposure ? Therefore, isn't an 'alt. coin for everyone' just long-term beneficial for bitcoin and crypto ? Undoubtedly, bitcoin is currently positioned at the center of these new markets. I see 'money' flowing into crypto-currencies from all sides and most importantly out of fiat.

Money is only really money when its moving. I've said it many times.

A couple of billionaires can easily move money into Bitcoin and create market liquidity (some did). However, we will only really know that were getting somewhere when a billion people have moved at least a dollar into crypto (and spend it).

I say create as many alt. coins as humanly possible until the world wakes up to the fact that fiat money is broken and ridiculous.

Be your own bank. Make whatever 'money' you want (the corrupt capitalist overloads do this anyway). Free software for freedom. Free money for everyone.

In the early days of bitcoin I said that the best way forward would be to get as many people as possible to start using bitcoin as quickly as possible.

I'll stand by that. No money without the majority.

The wealth is not in the "printed money" you are missing the point. The wealth is in the company that invests its time in the coin, and the people that will work for the coin.

Mmm.  Maybe.

That sounds a lot like the alternative local currency movement-- create a local currency that somehow expresses the local community's values.

I'm probably just a too-logical, cold-hearted geek, but building community around a currency doesn't strike a chord with me. To me, community is about people, and a currency is just a tool for transactions. I guess an analogy would be a bunch of carpenters who build a community around some Extra Special brand of nails that they create and trade amongst themselves.

Mmm.  Maybe.

That sounds a lot like the alternative local currency movement-- create a local currency that somehow expresses the local community's values.

I'm probably just a too-logical, cold-hearted geek, but building community around a currency doesn't strike a chord with me. To me, community is about people, and a currency is just a tool for transactions. I guess an analogy would be a bunch of carpenters who build a community around some Extra Special brand of nails that they create and trade amongst themselves.

Mmm.  Maybe.

That sounds a lot like the alternative local currency movement-- create a local currency that somehow expresses the local community's values.

I'm probably just a too-logical, cold-hearted geek, but building community around a currency doesn't strike a chord with me. To me, community is about people, and a currency is just a tool for transactions. I guess an analogy would be a bunch of carpenters who build a community around some Extra Special brand of nails that they create and trade amongst themselves.

I'm still stuck on how y'all think altcoins create wealth. I don't see any of them being any easier to transact than Bitcoin.

I'll try to keep this short.  

I believe BTC protocol creates wealth because of the value it adds to the system. It allows for fast and cheap transfers world wide. It prevents a central authority from destroying the currency at it own whims.  It is a store of wealth.  Any of these things can be done with other services or instruments; PayPal, Gold, fiat. BTC just does it better.

Now enter Alts. If the alt adds nothing new to BTC it adds very little value. It does add some value, as it allows for the acquisition of BTC, from some other means, other then buying or mining BTC directly. Both of which can be difficult and expensive.

Alt Coins that add new features to BTC, add true wealth. Example Proof of Stake, which now allows for much higher energy efficiency of inflating a crypto. A big issue for BTC.  

Obviously some of these features could be added BTC, some maybe can not.

In short I think alt coins are a mixed bag. Creating one simply to pump and dump, is damaging to the system, but hey it is a free market. Creating ones to improve and enhance BTC is a good thing! IMHO...

If anyone would like to get paid for making coins, I suggest posting your email and price of development in this thread. But before you do that, look up the Devcoin code just so you can see the difference between it and a normal coin. It creates payment within a community, outside of mining.

I have another idea for our TagCoin, or any crypto that is integrated with tagbond rewards. Because it is a digital representation on our wallet system, backed by the crypto that was deposited, anyway can give tips in the same way as Flatter, using buttons on a site to ask for instant donations. Faster than crypto wallets...I button press, enter the amount and it is done...it just shows up instantly in the other users wallet, and if he doesn't have one, one will be created automatically for them. Great for donations, anonymous or otherwise...

Any other ideas on this topic?..

Exactly. The current philosophy of "create coins for fun" but "mining is what we consider fun" can not last forever. Eventually people are going to realize that many of these coins have nothing supporting then except an [ANN] thread.

Coins should not be made to trade for bitcoin. Coins should be made to bridge the gap between bitcoin and the public.

I write in a way that I can express my train of thoughts more precisely, and yeah I have read a lot of books.

I know there is a limited amount of true wealth in the world and that gets diluted by the number of active investments in the world.

Bitcoin has gained it's value by being magnitudes more efficient, and soon much better designed than the banking system that it will replace; This is why it is appreciating in value, the people see what it is worth and are rallying their economic power around it, they know it is better, too long has the technological potential of our minds been held back by ancient obsolete systems.

This is where Bitcoin is  getting it's wealth from, it's simply a better way of exchaning wealth.

The Alt-coins have limited potential simply because they are the same as Bitcoin, only small improvements or worse. The time and effort required to move to them would require another advantage that will have to be determined for that particular coin. It will gain a little wealth, but it must start at zero to assess it's value properly.

so I as well cannot determine where the wealth of these coins is coming from, A POW advantage can attract a specific type of person to complete the human challenges.

Devcoin is a great start, but it is definitely very badly executed, bad interface, limited scope for it's mission, not diverse enough, no place for it's members to congregate and exchange ideas more effectively, but someone will figure it out.

 

it's called cryptsy my dude,,, use it wisely!  8)

I write in a way that I can express my train of thoughts more precisely, and yeah I have read a lot of books.

I know there is a limited amount of true wealth in the world and that gets diluted by the number of active investments in the world.

Bitcoin has gained it's value by being magnitudes more efficient, and soon much better designed than the banking system that it will replace; This is why it is appreciating in value, the people see what it is worth and are rallying their economic power around it, they know it is better, too long has the technological potential of our minds been held back by ancient obsolete systems.

This is where Bitcoin is  getting it's wealth from, it's simply a better way of exchaning wealth.

The Alt-coins have limited potential simply because they are the same as Bitcoin, only small improvements or worse. The time and effort required to move to them would require another advantage that will have to be determined for that particular coin. It will gain a little wealth, but it must start at zero to assess it's value properly.

so I as well cannot determine where the wealth of these coins is coming from, A POW advantage can attract a specific type of person to complete the human challenges.

Devcoin is a great start, but it is definitely very badly executed, bad interface, limited scope for it's mission, not diverse enough, no place for it's members to congregate and exchange ideas more effectively, but someone will figure it out.

 

OP

Devcoin is a very decentralized system, I have been observing it for a while now.

I have noticed that for things to move forward there are different people in charge in different places.
The website is managed by one person, the registration by another, etc. It promotes diversity by asking for others to show some initiative in creating something better, but even getting added to the list of Devcoins recipients needs to be changed.

If someone cannot create a website or a system for rating, promoting, more content to distribute Devcoins to, it will die without a doubt. There must be an easier way to get signed up to the Devcoin distribution list if one is not a writer. Someone may have to create a Micro-coin to be able to distribute coins to musicians and painters, with the accompanying website or app for sharing their creations easily to be added to their running tally.

But will they be able to pull together in time? I have noticed several mentions to limiting the number of writers because of the shares, but that diversification is necessary for upward movement at this point in time; They have hit rock bottom, almost, just 25 satoshi's to go.

other factors I've noticed is the lack of instructions to be a recipient of devcoins, they should be able to make affiliate websites for different developer communities. Knowing who to talk to, to link the community to Devcoin could save it... I am sure there are many communities out there who would like a creative incentive system. But of course we suffer from, not I, we will wait till someone does.

The most successful coins will be the ones that fight for mainstream adoption. Peercoin isn't trying to be the poor man's Bitcoin, we're looking to introduce a large number of new people to crypto such as the Trekcon event:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322818.0

It's not about being a "poor mans coin" it's about bringing people in board that can't or won't buy or mine coins. Which is most of the world.

ohhh so much altcoins, 10 % will survire 90% wouldnt

All I'm saying is a lot of coins are trying to be the next Litecoin, that's not the path of the Peercoin community. We're out there making the phone calls, spending the time to explain how coins can benefit a business. The coins that sit around and argue about nerd stats that no-one outside the community cares about are in for a rude awakening when they start approaching businesses with that mentality.  I believe the top alts will make a difference.

The point of this thread is that alt coins will start to be made with purpose. So it's not really about which current coins will stay, but which up and coming coin will leave them in the technological dust.

LTC, FTC and CGB will deffinetly survive for others i dont know. You probably asking yourself why i mentioned CGB. I am following it for a long time and i can tell you that they are many ppl interested in this coin and they are many holders

I believe in litecoin, as it has solidified a place as "bitcoin silver". I simply do not know enough about the other 2 to make a call.

Everyone has his own belivings and they think that one is the best, i have mine and i am sure cuz i am reading a lot about coins and following them for a long term

Rather than more blockchains, which are afterall a ridiculously expensive format due to the cost of protection from 51% attack and so on, the plan is to use Open Transactions to branch out the DeVCoin system into more artistic and creative fields. Various domains have been acquired toward those goals but maybe some of the delay might have been due to problems trying to get all the required domains. So a lot has already been moving behind the scenes, it was not considered a good idea to talk a lot about those efforts before securing all the relevant domains otherwise we'd likely just find domain squatters grabbing all the domains they could predict from our discussions that we would be wanting.

Maybe if all the domains have at last been secured we could finally talk about those plans...

-MarkM-

What if everyone made a coin for their children as they were born?
No one would be born into debt, and we would all basically be independent nations.

And no coin wuold worth anything

So Mark what is Devcoins vision? what is it capable of? What is happening now?

How do you earn coins with crypsty, without already having coins?

you need some coins?... i got chu!!! ;D big thingz in the works!

Don't do that; spamming is evil.


RE: hyper-complexity of the multi-coin paradigm:

uhhh...  Were you a postmodern lit major in college?


I've got a pretty simple, but I think fairly accurate, view of money/wealth.

I believe you can't create wealth just by printing money.  You can create the illusion of wealth (and I imagine some Keynesians would argue the illusion is enough to lubricate the economy and somehow increase productivity and growth and wealth; lets set aside that argument).

You can create wealth by making it easier for people to transact (and money is the world's best invention for doing that, barter is terribly inefficient).

I'm still stuck on how y'all think altcoins create wealth. I don't see any of them being any easier to transact than Bitcoin.

Yeah I need coins. I literally have less than 1 btc to my name. I'm not asking for coins just explaining.
I get paid Devcoins and have been buying books to research so I can write more on devtome and get more Devcoins.

is this shaggy? LOL  :D

Yeah.

man i tried to help you this spring!  8) *you all dissed me!

You're preaching to the choir. I feel like I am the only one trying to help the coin while they all just sit and hold it and bitch at me. And my brother died in June, I feel like they should have had a little more consideration.

Devcoin idea of writing to earn coins is awesome!~unfortunately the people running it are ego trippers. Also the client embeds stuff on your computer, I had to use special softwares to remove all the crap. If you want to help I have a new project you can help us with, with FLO~ ..=)

Please share this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnJSbFu3xhM

Well if you are sending it out to that many people, tell them to stick the TAG ID in their footer and I can TAG them..:)

TAG giveaway

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324231.0

Basically, this thread should be compared to credit card commercials. (Or at least these coins should be compared individually to credit card companies. 1. How good are the rewards programs 2. How many people accept them 3. What percent do you pay back, or in the case of coins: what percent do they pay you compared to miners)

And I want to get more companies making these "cards" (coins). So like a credit card company commercial commercial. Like a commercial telling you to invent a credit card.

It is definitely much cheaper that having to make a credit card/ gift card, pay for security etc when it is done safely with the blockchain to maintain security, code is cheap.

I consider a currency to be a release signal for resources, when a certain level of currency is acquired for a specific item, in essence they are gauging the amount of available demand at that price point, What controls the selection process is a complex list of factors that surround the individual making the choice to purchase.

I see a more complex environment if these alt-currencies and micro-currencies are used.

Imagine this.

A world wide signaling system(cryptocoins) to release specific types of intellectual resources or efforts on a world wide basis.
A well known coin, Devcoin for example. Take it to it's limit millions of organizations around the world use Devcoin for signaling the creation of creative opensource work, with specific micro-currencies for different endevours that exchange directly and only with Devcoin. Buy Devcoins for general creative work done world wide, buy the micro-currencies for specific works, music, engineering, architecture, etc. In this scenario everyone in the world knows about Devcoin and it's purpose, and is simply gaining creative resources by how well it is accomplishing this task; People buy the respective coins increasing the value of the coins and increasing resources to be expended within the system. A patron of the coin would buy coins and then give them specifically to artist, writers, engineers that they admire and wish their work to continue, or keep it for themselves when they are in a bind and need the cash.

Underneath Devcoin would be MusicCoin, PaintCoin, ArcCoin, etc each with a micro blockchain connected to Devcoins Blockchain but only downloaded for those interested in making specific donations to those efforts instead of a global effort, Multi-Coin wallets would be the norm.  And maybe even-multi-coin interconnectors that would connect not just a projects coin-interface but would be merged with Devcoin because of the efforts that they would come under. For example, if someone was trying to make an floating city, they would make the floating-city-coin project that people could donate too at any time to move the project forward, but it would be tied to Devcoin for all the creation being made to gain extra funding.

The coins in essence act as giant world-wide campaign signals for development of decentralized projects, no need to know who or what is using it, just knowing that the best efforts that this paradigm is creating is becoming available for all humanity.  A different model far more effective and efficient than the current design of NGOs.

The wealth that these coins need for their projects, would be interfaced from Bitcoin or directly purchased with Fiat. The projects would gain acceptance according to how well they were known, how well they did in telling the community and investors how well they are doing... and with Open Transactions, a market for human endevours could be created, think of kickstarter but with coins and the project works the moment you say go.  All your efforts will determine how well you are gaining the trust of the general public to provide the wealth necessary to make the project move forward.

Massive decentralized movements with millions of individuals with decentralized equipment and tools acting like Non-government-organizations creating enormous projects never before possible in this way with minimal paperwork required, just a Forum, a Coin, a great project, and millions of volunteers willing to be paid in Coins with the backing of the general publics purchasing power.

so if someone did complete the floating Arc, at the end where would the coins go? to it's maintenance? it would plummet in price as the endevour was finished and resource use declined, all coins would have to be bought back by the Coinbased- NGO and returned to the community. The ArcCoin blockchain would be maintained as a record of those who contributed to it's creation.

I had a thought like this. A "Nice Jewish Coin" that would be a support for other coins. Like what Frodo's ring was to the others in Lord of the Rings.

No coin is worth anything when it is made. Just like bitcoin. The community and their goals and achievements are what give them value. Just like the USD.

And a coin based on a child's future is inherently better than a coin that is meant for "the fun of mining".

Lord of the Coins, Lord of the Coins: The Two Powers, Lord of the Coins: The Return of the Source.

    One Coin to rule them all, One Coin to find them; One Coin to bring them all

    and in the darkweb bind them.

This is the future my friend, we have no choice but spread the word to those who will listen, gain their insights and trust to help expand and perfect this technology to it's limits. the more people know the faster this will grow, the more people watch and participate the greater this technology will be as we will all watch out for each others interests, more eyes on the prize makes corruption hard to find.

USERS give value to everything, if you have something that is no use for something and nobody uses it it is worth nothing. But when you have a product that has many users it can be worth many USD

The big problem with blockchains is they are insanely expensive to secure or they are insanely insecure.

Look at all the crapcoins that came out the last bunch of months, most of them have huge problems trying to secure their chain, and the more of them there are the less hashing power gets devoted each, on average. Plus the miners jump around, in effect attacking the chains instead of really helping them.

That is a large part of why all the specific-arts specific-crafts etc coins the devcoin project plans to implement are not going to be done using blockchains; we still have not even been able to make the devcoin blockchain itself as secure as bitcoin's blockchain, it would be insane to increase our expenses by trying to budget hashing to protect even more blockchains.

Thus all the little specific-purpose currencies are most likely going to be implemented using Open Transactions.

-MarkM-

The big problem with blockchains is they are insanely expensive to secure or they are insanely insecure.

Look at all the crapcoins that came out the last bunch of months, most of them have huge problems trying to secure their chain, and the more of them there are the less hashing power gets devoted each, on average. Plus the miners jump around, in effect attacking the chains instead of really helping them.

That is a large part of why all the specific-arts specific-crafts etc coins the devcoin project plans to implement are not going to be done using blockchains; we still have not even been able to make the devcoin blockchain itself as secure as bitcoin's blockchain, it would be insane to increase our expenses by trying to budget hashing to protect even more blockchains.

Thus all the little specific-purpose currencies are most likely going to be implemented using Open Transactions.

-MarkM-

Has anyone seen any cool new coins?

If I am a good writer, why would I pay out 10% of my income?  That is more expensive than credit card charges!

Again, don't confuse money for wealth.  Writers produce wealth in the form of the stories/articles/whatever they are writing. The currency used to trade that wealth only matters as far as:

+ What can the writer buy with it
+ If the writer saves it, will it buy more or less in the future

This thread has now gone out to over 5,000 people. I'm going to try to get it out to 10,000 by the end of the week.

I am writing a novel this month also though (so may be delayed), for National Novel Writing Month. If anyone would like to join, the website is NanoWrimo.org and there are forums full of people writing books there.

Also,
If you write a book and post it to Devtome, you will get paid devcoins :)

I think by viewing this list, one can get a better idea of what coins might be worth investing.

I like how solid LTC and PPC are entrenched  The trends for some of the top 20 coins also looks fairly encouraging.

I found this great thread that can further enhance any alt-coin outthere, everything you need to get going with Open Transactions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=212490.msg2251931#msg2251931

…and get money back out again. I assume by this you mean "legacy cash money in hand" and/or "legacy money in the legacy bank."

--- Keep in mind that most transfers will happen inside the OT system, or on the blockchain…
--- That is, while bailing legacy cash in/out of the system is possible, that should not happen for each and every transaction….
--- Also keep in mind that once you bailout BTC or colored coins from an OT server, then it has passed outside the sphere of OT, and you can cash it out in whatever conventional way that you normally would, based on the existing market for Bitcoin services. (This would be an option as well.)
--- …Therefore I restricted my Bitmessage examples to only cases where the two parties both are transacting within OT. (The reason being that we can then assume that OT's powers apply -- such as markets and escrow.)

That having been said, here are various options I can imagine for bailing legacy funds into/out of the system …

=> Bitcoin ATMs. These were at the Bitcoin 2013 Conference in various configurations, and so the option is rapidly approaching to use them.

=> Through your social network: This was always what enamored me of the Ripple idea originally -- that instead of using a centralized exchange, you can just "go through your friends." And if your friend will hand you some cash in return for a Ripple transfer, then similarly he should be willing to hand you some cash in return for an OT or blockchain transfer. (And vice-versa.)

=> Geolocation: Apple has recently publicized the concept of people providing ATM service for each other. Your iPhone just finds someone nearby who hands you $60. (At the same time, $62.50 is charged to your iTunes account.)
The same could clearly work for colored coins in a P2P app. (Even the open-source community could easily build such an app using OT -- though Monetas itself possibly could not, depending on the status of Apple's patent.)

=> SEPA transfer: In Europe, bank users can quickly and easily send transfers to each other's accounts through the SEPA API, and verify whether such transfers have been made.

=> Meetups: There are already local Bitcoin meet-ups; thus it seems like a viable method of exchange for cash.

=> Gateways: (Ripple seems to have popularized this nomenclature, so I'm going to use it here.) This is any business that users are willing to trust for the purposes of sending/receiving bank wires, SEPA transfers, ACH transfers, etc.

===> The main difference here is that in the case of Open-Transactions, your funds would not be stored as an IOU from the gateway. Many have said that on this forum, but that is not actually the case. On OT, you are buying/selling BTC and colored coins, instead of issuing IOUs.
(Issuers do have the ability on OT to issue IOUs, but that is not the solution I've suggested in this thread. Rather, I've suggested to store the actual coins in voting pools so that an OT server can transact them without having to be trusted not to steal them.)

===> In the case of OT, the "gateway" becomes a "trader". Instead of holding IOUs from a gateway, you are purchasing or selling BTC or colored coins from a trader. And that Trader is NOT an OT server -- but another OT user, like you!
And since this transaction is occurring inside an OT server:
- it will be instant, instead of requiring blockchain confirmations.
- It can be performed on a market, where orders are automatically matched according to their criteria.
- It can be performed through the use of escrow -- and the terms of that escrow can be customized by the parties (since the escrow itself is implemented as a smart contract -- and users can customize their own smart contracts.)
- Via Bitmessage, wallets can coordinate cross-server wiring of funds, as well as cross-server order matching, and cross-server discovery of other wallets willing to make transfers in/out of the legacy banking system, by way of OT escrow.

===> In any case, whether you are obtaining IOUs from a gateway (Ripple), or whether you are buying/selling BTC and colored coins from a trader (OT), either way, I assume that such businesses will be willing to take/pay cash at their physical locations, and bank wires otherwise. (Otherwise, why are they even in this business?) Therefore, you can move legacy funds in/out through such businesses.
Personally, I prefer cash-in-hand over IOUs, which is why OT places such a high value on the ability to customize your escrow terms.

=> Bank Wires: One example of why I prefer cash-in-hand: If you purchase precious metals for physical delivery, you will discover that orders can be shipped based on a bank wire, yet the same business is not willing to ship based on a credit card purchase (due to chargeback risk.)
Therefore bank wires are a valid method for getting money in/out of the bank account, albeit slow and expensive.

=> Bitcoin Exchanges: exchanges are one way to trade Bitcoins for national currency and get a bank wire, so it deserves to be on this list. Any BTC traded on an OT server could presumably be bailed-off of OT and cashed-in through a Bitcoin exchange (with the laws in that jurisdiction applying.)

=> The original issuer: In the case of colored coins, there is some issuer in some jurisdiction who originally created--and has agreed to redeem--those colored coins. Presumably he could be paid (and pay others) through BTC or through bank wires or cheques.
NOTE: Most actual users shouldn't have to deal with this guy directly. Another note: Once users have uploaded these coins into multi-sig voting pools, they can then devise basket currencies to hold and transact with. This enables users to distribute the risk of a single currency across many issuers.

=> Prepaid card / bank card: It seems that a prepaid card could be given to the user, with funds placed onto the card easily enough based on whether the user had paid the card issuer on OT.
- Escrow probably not necessary in this case, and card issuers can demand to be pre-paid.

Has anyone heard of any new coins lately that could make it?

You can create wealth by making it easier for people to transact (and money is the world's best invention for doing that, barter is terribly inefficient).

That sounds a lot like the alternative local currency movement-- create a local currency that somehow expresses the local community's values.

I'm probably just a too-logical, cold-hearted geek, but building community around a currency doesn't strike a chord with me. To me, community is about people, and a currency is just a tool for transactions. I guess an analogy would be a bunch of carpenters who build a community around some Extra Special brand of nails that they create and trade amongst themselves.