Bitcoin Forum

Do any of you religious folk practice tithing every month and if so why or why not? 

In the past few days I found out that a friend of mine gives 10% a month to his very wealthy church.  Yet, the dumb ass is massively in debt, spends 100% of his check (tithing included) and refuses to stop giving his hard earned money to his church.  ($500+ a month)

I sit here shaking my head but it's his money and it's his choice, but I do call him a fool.  While preaching against gluttony, the church sure does accept your money with open hands.  In my opinion they should be teaching simple economics, savings, paying off bills or putting money away for your children's college. 

No in fact, I respect the country Finland for actually having the balls to place a tax on the church considering the amount of money they get tax free, if there god is all powerful, then why is it that he can't make his own money? I always think twice and look up any sort of charity now before I consider supporting them in anything because you always find the big ones at least are always skimming money off the top and taking a percentage to pay for 'Administration'.

The majority of them are just trying to guilt trip you into giving them money and then they don't even help the people that they claim to be, you can think badly of me for saying this if you like, but the world would be suffering a lot less if these organisations were actually helping people like they said they would. There's also a problem where a lot of these schemes will only temporarily fix whatever is wrong in the part of the world they're helping rather than providing a more long term solution.

I know the Mormon (LDS) church is very strict about collecting 10% tithe from its members.

A Mormon friend of mine said his pastor actually demands to see paychecks to make sure they are getting their cut!

But, Mormons really do put their tithing to good use from what I see. If there is ever World War III, they will be ready :)

How would this help the church?

Churches aren't there to help you, they are there for you to help.

Oh they might do good sometimes, to keep you in... And they use the people for that...

there are so many people in this world, and each person is a unique individual. with that said, i really don't understand how people can put their full faith in an institution that is designed to sap all of your worth from you. sometimes i feel like i live in a different dimension from what seems like half of the world.

i wasn't even raised with any particular religion, but even as a child i felt the guilt and fear of being non-believer who would be cast to hell by jesus and his dad. so then i went to a church and listened to them preach about how i am the lamb of god, and any of my possessions are to be remitted to the true owner.. what the fuck? i think that was the point where i absolutely knew that i'd never be a christian.

I think the meaning of that is that you can't take your possessions with you when you die.

But let's be real, no church should mandate you to pay.  As shouldn't the government.

Church people are gullible.  The church knows they can blindly ask for money and get it.

The government is different.  IF you pay taxes (which I doubt you ever have), you're not giving it blindly.  You know it goes to such things as roads, social services and defense.

Never heard about such thing at tithing. I'm disappointed that it is not related to tits :(

Don't forget the slaughtering of our neighbors for oil!  And an oppressive drug war that challenges your freedom to think and kills tens of thousands yearly.

That's a big part of it.  The thing is, we could build roads without a government.  But we couldn't have several indefinite (preemptive) wars going on in the absence of government.

Holy crap... Dank is making sense for once

unless you guys want satan to give you anal sex in hell, you better pay money to your local church so they can buy nice things with it. they are god's messengers after all.

the lord shall bless his children with abundance.. and it only requires 10% per month.

btw, i would totally pretend to be a mormon during the end times... but it probably won't work since everyone will do it, in which case the church would probably grow to become even more powerful.

I'm not surprised they would do that, but what a crock of shit

I admire the way LDS folk take care of one another, but in order to be part of the "care circle" you have to join their club and pay the dues (and not be black).  No thank you...  Similar to the Amish, you'll be taken care of, but you have to play by their rules and listen to the elders.   

Unfortunately some of the groups are run by corrupt, selfish, and criminal idiots (see Warren Jeffs), but they are usually in the minority.

Amish are very admirable. Although the show Amish Mafia really tries to show another side of it, LOL.

Are you claiming that every one of your sect leaders are just, honorable and honest?  If so, how are all the young boys being molested?

The only reason you are a christian is because of where in the world you were born.  Had you been born in India, for example, you wouldn't be a christian.  Don't knock one cult unless you are willing to knock them all, because that makes you a hypocrite.

If  you are a Jew, your tithe is not only 10% but you get 30% because it's 3 kinds of tithes. Plus another 10% for the tax. BUT the tithe is used to help people and the tax helps them defend their little parcel of land against invasion.

So to think that tithing is only 10% means that it doesn't follow the Hebraic roots/law. But a simple form of taxation. Being said all that, giving is something to be done by heart (given cheerfully) not just being obliged. And oh its not only giving in the institutional churches but it means giving to people in dire need.

So have you donated to the Philippines?

Depends where in India. In the west (formerly Portugese colonies) or in the east (from Welsh missionaries or other European settlers) Christianity is a very popular religion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_India#State_Populations

No, cause I'm no member of the church.

But here in Germany we even have a Church Tax. So if you are in the church you automatically pay a ~3,5% Tax to the church every month: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchensteuer_%28Deutschland%29

Maybe that's why we have so many Unchurched here  ;)

But Akka, don't you see, the church can only be funded through taxation.

What?  Donations?!  Impossible...

Thanks for the clarification malevoent.  I didn't research which part of the world is home to each religion, I just thought India would be a safe bet.  :)

If you read the sentence, it says "Unfortunately some of the groups are run by corrupt, selfish, and criminal idiots."



Wrong. I was not born a Christian. Thanks for assuming though.

In fact, I was raised to hate Christianity, and some of my early experiences with "Christians" were negative.
Over time though, I figured out there were many hypocrites who called themselves Christians, but really weren't. In fact, many Christians I know are not ones who boast "I am a Christian!" but exhibit the values nonetheless. Christianity is about values, not titles.

And many people all over the world come to Christianity through learning about it. It is not a static religion where one is simply born into it.

These days I am very critical of the Pastor Rick Warren (what a scam) and any Christian church who is aligning themselves with Islam, saying the Jesus in Islam is the same Jesus in Christianity, which it's not. But that's another story.

If you want to talk about cults, talk about Islam. THAT is a real cult.

Year, but we are Germans. We have to pay for our forgiveness you know.  :P

I agree with you. So one can never say "this is the ultimate and only practice". As the early followers of Jesus had practiced faith is not an institution but rather a family of hundreds of fathers and mothers. And also its not a sunday only thing but a shared life together. Looking back the contrast in the book of Acts and today's "christianity" is a bit off i guess.

I certainly didn't mean you MUST be born a christian if you live in America.  Thanks for assuming though.

Atheists have existed in America for generations already - it's certainly possible you were born to one of them.

I meant that if born in the US, you are much more likely to be a christian than a buddhist.   No god has international influence like you think an all powerful god would.


Christianity is just as much of a cult as Islam is.  You just don't think so because you are in it.

Interesting point, except I think it is wrong.

The three major religions are Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

Each of them recognizes "fundamentals," including Jesus Christ. The interpretation of course differs among them.

But, obviously, Abraham, the Old Testament, are an underlying recurrence.


Wrong. Look up definition of a cult. Hint: It's not just a trendy word.

Islam is a cult because of it tenets.

In Islam, you can be killed for apostasy (leaving Islam).
In Islam, you cannot say anything derogatory about Muhammed, or you will be killed.


http://www.articlesbase.com/news-and-society-articles/islam-is-not-a-religion-islam-is-a-cult-877139.html
Read and learn.

And of course you are allowed to think it's wrong, even if you don't see it's only because of your association.  You are "too close", so to say.

I am curious as to why you call islam a cult, but not your own christianity.

What do you think the definition of "cult" is?    According to the dictionary, which most people get their definitions from, any group of people that worship the same thing is a cult.

Further, if you got to Europe, you can see how Islam has turned many cities into disaster areas.

In England and Norway, there are many areas considered "no go zones" for non Muslims. Unlike going down a street in a nice neighborhood in the US or Canada, going in will not only elicit dirty looks, but will likely get you beat up or killed. Even the police will not go into certain areas for fear of violence.



Islam is a cult because of it tenets

In Islam, you can be killed for apostasy (leaving Islam).
In Islam, you cannot say anything derogatory about Muhammed, or you will be killed.
Preaching another religion in a Muslim country will get you imprisoned and or killed.

In Islam disciplinary action includes beating, maiming, stoning, beheading or jail. Excommunication is for minor offenses.
Those who leave Islam must live in constant threat of being discovered and killed.

Based on the above, Islam is a cult. It is the biggest and the most successful cult. It practically reunites every feature of cult. Other cults may not be cultic in some of the above points. But Islam is cultic in every way and it would be a gross mistake to number it among religions just because 1.2 billion benighted people call themselves Muslims.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50218.htm

You're making up your own definition of "cult".  You may disagree with what they do in their religion, but that alone doesn't make it a cult.  Again, look up the meaning of the word.

According to Wikipedia, christianity is the largest cult out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups#Largest_religions

Hmm I wonder what this reminds me of. Was there some rather popular religion similiar couple hundreds years ago?

I think I see the disconnection between AW and I.

He is using the following definition for cult:

Whereas I, like the rest of the population, uses the standard dictionary definition:

OR

I have bolded the primary difference.  Clearly AW's definition has been "altered" to favor the rites and ceremonies of the christian religion, and to denounce as extreme the rites of other religions.

Basically, "I don't like what they are doing so I will label them"

Cult isn't a bad word - it just means a group of people that worship religiously, and it applies to all religions - not just ones you are not in.

I realize AW can't understand this, since he is "too close".  I won't senselessly debate this any more.

Peace out.   :)

As it also applies to the government and those above it, the actual largest cult in existence.

Christianity has 2 billion people in it's cult.  How many people in this government of yours?

What's the world population?  7 billion?

I am not religious person, so no I don't give them ( church ) anything. Religion as far as I remember is based on poverty and not on wealth, so why would someone fill pockets of " man in black robes " or give money to a church that has walls covered in gold...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/08/17/the-economist-estimates-the-catholic-church-spent-171600000000-in-2010/
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/08/wealth-of-roman-catholic-church-impossible-to-calculate/

A Working Definition of a "Cult"

    The definition of cult in this essay is primarily non-theological. Traditionally Christians apply the term to Bible based groups that have significantly departed from the mainstream and historical creeds, particularly regarding the deity of Jesus and the meaning of His sacrifice on the cross. Bible based cults typically deny the full deity and humanity of Jesus, His atoning work on the cross, bodily resurrection, and return at the end of the age as King of kings and Lord of lords to judge the living and the dead.

    However, Islam is being examined here using a secular definition of cult, that is, the use of mind-bending psychological and sociological techniques to recruit, motivate, and retain converts and members. Contrary to popular understandings, cults may not be religious; they may be political, commercial, or psychological! educational in nature. Cults may be large or small, named or unnamed, known or unknown. They may have a leader or be without a leader. The essential issue is the use of control mechanisms that violate the individuality of participants to freely associate with the group.

    Cults are dangerous-they control, manipulate, and use those under their sway. Islam leaders issue declarations, a "fatwa", and may even call for a holy war, the "jihad". These clerical pronouncements place demands upon Muslims, which may violate their will and inner sensibilities. If Islam were not so fractured into sects and splinter movements, the non-Muslim world would face a more serious enemy that it does today. So strange is Islam, that it sanctions the murder of "infidels" and, of course, I am one and so is anyone who is not a Muslim.

Is Islam Cultic?

    My answer to the above question is that Islam is cultic. The following is a series of questions and assertions designed to demonstrate this contention.

    Why is Islam not a cult when in many Muslim dominated countries it is a capital offense to hand Muslims a Bible, or, to simply explain Christianity to them? Of course, the same holds true for a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Taoist who might attempt to pass along something of his or her faith. Saudi Arabia, the guardian of Islam's most holy shrines in Mecca and Medina, is a highly restricted society where Christians are not allowed any public expression of their faith.

    Why is Islam not a cult when it is virtually impossible for a Muslim to leave the religion even if one is not converting to another religion but merely wishes to become, for example, an atheist or agnostic?

    Why is Islam not a cult when Muslim warriors force their religion on people? The history of Islam is full of that kind of proselytization. Yes, I know the Roman Catholic Church has forced "pagans" to adopt Catholicism. However that church has recognized that in so doing it was wrong-headed, anti-biblical, and, indeed, anti-Christian. As a Baptist, I can say that in 500 years of our history we have not engaged in such tactics and neither have any of the traditional Evangelical, Protestant denominations.

    A vivid illustration of the cultic nature of Islam is the case of the novelist Salman Rushdie. Rushdie had a death contract issued against his life for what was taken as a slight against Allah in his Satanic Verses. Whereas, novelists, journalists, commentators, filmmakers, and television producers routinely critique Christianity without reprisal. Yes, I know there were the inquisitions, but again, those were carried out by the Roman Church, which is only one segment of the Christian Church. But with Islam, vengeance, reprisals, and even death contracts are systemic and ingrained in the religion.

    Many if not most Muslims who live in Western countries are not cultic extremists and will be patriots of whatever country in which they live. But, the commitment to Islam may run far deeper than loyalty to any nation. Muslims will change national or political affiliations if needed, but their commitment to the defense of Islam may be fanatical. Religious faith, especially cultic religious faith, may motivate people into radical behavior.

http://www.w3church.org/ISLAM1.html

Is bitcoin a cult then?

That is simply a lie, the number. % was calculated based on an average number of religious people in given country and multiplied by the number of citizens. So no, there are no 2 billion Christians....

Why would you look a definition of a cult from Christianity view point?

Christianity wasn't even a religion some 2000 years ago, it was banned and it was considered something that isn't going to do any good to Roman belief system. Also considering that a cult is a belief in a deity, then Christianity is a cult, same as any other religion in the world. Gautama Buddha, a person that paved the path to Buddhism rejected the existance of creator  deity, and as far as I remember from school and talks, there is no concept of God like in Islam, Christianity and so on.

Also, every religion has their rules. One thing you didnt mentioned when you talked about Bible. Bible is written by man ( of many of them ), Kur'an was written by the man but the instruction ( or what to write ) was dictated by the God.
The, Christianity, same as any other religion is based on a reward system, that if you follow you get a reward and if you don;t, well you are punished. So that is the same as in any cult.

No answer to the first question.

Your friend is not a fool. In fact, many sins will be forgiven those who give.

In fact, if people did not give, then people will suffer and die, or perhaps they will not hear the gospel of jesus christ,
and supporting the gospel of jesus christ is a good thing to do with money.

On the other hand, I have heard it said, that the tithing was a levitical protocol, but after Jesus Christ came and was crucified, then the levitical protocol of tithing came to an end at that time.

Nonetheless, if that is true, the priests or preachers are appointed ministers to preach the gospel of jesus christ, and they are seeking after a good work. and supporting them is a good idea, but whether or not it is yet legally binding or not in the bible? How do you interpret it?

i don't mind to give, especially if i am well off. but i am realistic.. i know that many, if not most, charitable organizations don't really spend that much money on the causes that they purport to. instead, they gather money and launder it into their own pockets, which is what religious leaders do. look at the previous popes, living in opulence while surrounded by poor people and castigating harry potter and gay people.

this was even an issue during the times of jesus.

You ignored what I wrote.

Christianity is based on Judaism and the Old Testament. Hence the Old Testament (Judaism and Christianity) and the New Testament (Christianity).

Yes, the Romans murdered Jesus on the cross for preaching the gospel.

Not sure why you think the Quran is dictated by God and the Bible is not... are you Muslim?

The main difference is Islam punishes apostates (converts to another religion) and preaching another religion to a Muslim is viewed as grounds to imprison and execute them.
If you are Muslim and become agnostic, they will try and kill you if you live in a Muslim country. It is actually written into the laws and enforced.
In Iran they will hang you if you are gay. Happens quite often actually.


IMO the Quran is a hack job which copies the Old and New Testaments. If you want to see a REAL cult in action, study Islam.
I know many former Muslims who agree with this assessment.

Apparently the verses of the Quran were dictated to Muhammed by the Archangel Gabriel himself.

I didn't ignored anything.

Christianity isnt the oldest religion, there are older ones. Also only Ten Commandments were dictated by the God ( or a talking burning bush ). Everything else was written by the man, that is even stated in the Bible.

Because Muslims say so?!? And because Christians says so?!? If you read few posts above you would see that I am not religious...

Christianity became recognized religion when Roman Emperor on his death bed became Christian... Also didn't Christians killed millions because of the religion?!?

I know many Muslims and none of them would be killed if they decide to become Christian or denounce religion... So thats not true at all. There are countries that are strictly following teaching in Kuran, but that's not important.
And if you are gay according Bible should face the same fate...

Leviticus 18:22 - Homosexual acts are an abomination to God.
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.
Chronicles 15:12-13 - They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of                                             Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.....

You do realize that there are so many orders to kill nonbelievers, false prophets, witches...
That everything alive was killed by God ( flood ), the cities destroyed, then killing of 1st born sons and so on....

My friend can give plenty: His time, effort, skills or anything else that isn't money to have his sins forgiven, right? 

Another person I knew who is a deep rooted Christian told me, "I do not need to be in a church to walk with God."  When he said that, he smiled as thought he knew he was off the hook for giving away his money to a church. 

Tithing - didn't know its meaning just googled. It means giving one tenth of your income to already established international businesses instead of helping someone needy.

The big difference is, Muslims are carrying out these murders to this very day.

You should read http://www.atlasshrugs.com

Thousands are dying in the name of Islam every month for apostasy, being gay, and other "crimes."

Muslims are persecuting Christians in Egypt and throughout the Middle East, burning their churches and killing them. I do not see Christianity doing the same. Get your head out of the sand!

Where did you seen that Muslims are doing that ( burning Churches for example )?
Christians have done that in the name of god for centuries, didn't they?
I for one do agree that rapists, child molesters, should be treated like parasites, but thats just me. So their death doesn't have an impact....

Please, link how many churches have been burnt in the last year by Muslims, how many Christians have been killed by Muslims ( not war in the Middle East where you have planes from Christians countries bombing schools, hospitals and so on )...

Please find me the exact number of Christians killed and their churches burnt down in the last decade, and some link thats not related to CNN, BBC and so on....

You have Hagia Sophia, one of the largest churches in the world, it was built in 6th century and was an Orthodox basilica for close to 1000 years!!!

Muslims Around The World Are Burning Churches and Killing Christians – Where is The Outrage?
http://zionstrumpet.com/2011/08/04/muslims-around-the-world-are-burning-churches-and-killing-christians-where-is-the-outrage/

"Where is the outrage from the worldwide Christian community? I could fill hundreds of pages with stories of muslims burning down churches and killing Christians. Here is a very small sample of recent incidents of Christian persecution taking place on a regular basis in countries with majority muslim populations."
..

“We don’t want churches on our street. Today we are going to burn the church, and if you continue we are going to burn your house also,” Note posted to the donor of a plot for a church building in Zanzibar. As if a 97% Muslim majority was not enough, the local population and government (taking a cue from how they do it in other Muslim countries) is, through this latest Zanzibar church burning incident, seeing to it that Islam is the only way on Tanzania’s Pemba and Unguja Islands.

..
The Muslims had burned down the homes of 30 Christian leaders, they had killed one Christian, wounded several others, and burned down 69 churches, a Bible school, and a Christian orphanage.

Muslim Brotherhood Supporters Burning Coptic Christian
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2013/08/15/peaceful-brotherhood-protesters-torching-coptic-christian-churches-n1665492

Muslim Brotherhood Memo Encourages Burning Churches in Egypt
http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/08/20/muslim-brotherhood-memo-encourages-burning-churches-in-egypt/

"Muslims Burn Down Catholic Church in Sudan"- Christian Post
http://www.christianpost.com/news/muslims-burn-down-catholic-church-in-sudan-73668/





The problem with Islam is that they will accuse anyone of the above, just so they can kill them to get their property and land.

Yeah, the Hagia Sophia, a church the Muslims took over and made a mosque!

You are either in denial, or defending these murderers!

WIKI: Christian Terrorism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism)

Funny, that's what I say about christians who deny their religion has killed more people than any other in history. 

It seems you forget we are talking about modern times.

As in today. Wake up.

Religion makes you blind. It stops the evolution of ourself and the humanity in together. It limits our imagination.
Ours is just one of the 500000000000 galaxies in the universe. There is no way life exists only on this planet.
We need to broaden our approach towards life, to not believe whatever is said/taught to us from childhood. Just try it once and explore the other infinite possibilites. Probably Gods were aliens that visited Earth thousand years ago when Mankind didn't evolved much. They might have taught us farming, the early man who saw the bright light coming from the sky (spaceships) could not interpret it. Got shocked and thought of it as a higher being, passed on stories down generation of that sighting and there you go, rest is history AND SHOULD BE HISTORY NOT PRESENT.

Are you Guys kidding me? Are you seriously discussing which religion is the lesser evil as a pro argument for that religion?  ::)

Long way from tithing huh? :P

Tithing was ordinances for the levitical priesthood in the old testament, applicable to the tribe of Levi.

Jesus Christ was from the tribe of Judah, so those ordinances do not apply to Jesus.

I found this website that is all about tithing :)

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id8.html (http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id8.html)

10%  ???
man, when I'm in church I only give around 20 cents, there is a fee, so called "lukno" which the whole family (5 of us) pay once a year and it's around 15$.
this is the custom in my country, the church doesn't have much profit as their main income is the "lukno" but they gather some money during the mass altough everyone gives small amounts usually less then a dollar.

We're catholic btw :D

i think he is brave and stupid for giving so much when he is tight on cash but i also respect him for it. you cant knock somebody who is doing a good thing and looking out for others. i dont practice tithing and i definitely wont give to the church but i do give to homeless people i come across and to the world food program. i like the idea of feeding people who cant feed themselves. its such a basic need. with all the wealth going around nobody deserves to starve to death.

Why do you think there is a difference between an alien and a higher being?

By saying higher being I meant to say that, early man thought of aliens as God. Actually, God are aliens. Aliens are much more advanced species than us, telepathy, teleportation, to name some of their normal senses. But then they too have many different species.

Do you think humans can evolve to the same level of consciousness as aliens?

definitely one day in our distant future if we don't get destroyed by a comet before that happens :D

It will require some voluntary effort from us and some help from them. Meditation seems to be the only bridge between the two worlds though since they are in another dimension.

No, thats a long way from tithing:

Do you think they could have descended to earth, as humans, to do so?

Thank you for your perspective, btw. :)

Beautiful. ;D

Yes they might have been here when we were early man to teach us farming. Who knows they might still be here among us. They say "they" are shapeshifting and
 dont need a language to converse as they are highly evolved and can read our brain waves

Thanks for sharing your beliefs, interestingly enough they align with my experience of seeing a shapeshifter posed as my girl at the time block off the road in front of me in my neighborhood.  Then they drove passed with the windows down so I could see, in a government impala.

I myself am a christian and tithed for many years. It wasn't until I really sat back and examined the practice that it raised some alarm bells in my head.