Tithing

[AndrewWilliams]

Unfortunately some of the groups are run by corrupt, selfish, and criminal idiots (see Warren Jeffs), but they are usually in the minority.

Are you claiming that every one of your sect leaders are just, honorable and honest?  If so, how are all the young boys being molested?

The only reason you are a christian is because of where in the world you were born.  Had you been born in India, for example, you wouldn't be a christian.  Don't knock one cult unless you are willing to knock them all, because that makes you a hypocrite.

If you read the sentence, it says "Unfortunately some of the groups are run by corrupt, selfish, and criminal idiots."



Wrong. I was not born a Christian. Thanks for assuming though.

In fact, I was raised to hate Christianity, and some of my early experiences with "Christians" were negative.
Over time though, I figured out there were many hypocrites who called themselves Christians, but really weren't. In fact, many Christians I know are not ones who boast "I am a Christian!" but exhibit the values nonetheless. Christianity is about values, not titles.

And many people all over the world come to Christianity through learning about it. It is not a static religion where one is simply born into it.

These days I am very critical of the Pastor Rick Warren (what a scam) and any Christian church who is aligning themselves with Islam, saying the Jesus in Islam is the same Jesus in Christianity, which it's not. But that's another story.

If you want to talk about cults, talk about Islam. THAT is a real cult.

[Akka]

No, cause I'm no member of the church.

But here in Germany we even have a Church Tax. So if you are in the church you automatically pay a ~3,5% Tax to the church every month: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchensteuer_%28Deutschland%29

Maybe that's why we have so many Unchurched here  

But Akka, don't you see, the church can only be funded through taxation.

What?  Donations?!  Impossible...

Year, but we are Germans. We have to pay for our forgiveness you know. 

[balanghai]

Unfortunately some of the groups are run by corrupt, selfish, and criminal idiots (see Warren Jeffs), but they are usually in the minority.

Are you claiming that every one of your sect leaders are just, honorable and honest?  If so, how are all the young boys being molested?

The only reason you are a christian is because of where in the world you were born.  Had you been born in India, for example, you wouldn't be a christian.  Don't knock one cult unless you are willing to knock them all, because that makes you a hypocrite.

If you read the sentence, it says "Unfortunately some of the groups are run by corrupt, selfish, and criminal idiots."

Wrong. I was not born a Christian. Thanks for assuming though.

In fact, I was raised to hate Christianity, and some of my early experiences with "Christians" were negative.
Over time though, I figured out there were many hypocrites who called themselves Christians, but really weren't. In fact, many Christians I know are not ones who boast "I am a Christian!" but exhibit the values nonetheless.

And many people all over the world come to Christianity through learning about it. It is not a static religion where one is simply born into it.

These days I am very critical of the Pastor Rick Warren (what a scam) and any Christian church who is aligning themselves with Islam, saying the Jesus in Islam is the same Jesus in Christianity, which it's not. But that's another story.

I agree with you. So one can never say "this is the ultimate and only practice". As the early followers of Jesus had practiced faith is not an institution but rather a family of hundreds of fathers and mothers. And also its not a sunday only thing but a shared life together. Looking back the contrast in the book of Acts and today's "christianity" is a bit off i guess.

[Vod]

Wrong. I was not born a Christian. Thanks for assuming though.

I certainly didn't mean you MUST be born a christian if you live in America.  Thanks for assuming though.

Atheists have existed in America for generations already - it's certainly possible you were born to one of them.

I meant that if born in the US, you are much more likely to be a christian than a buddhist.   No god has international influence like you think an all powerful god would.

If you want to talk about cults, talk about Islam. THAT is a real cult.

Christianity is just as much of a cult as Islam is.  You just don't think so because you are in it.

[AndrewWilliams]

I certainly didn't mean you MUST be born a christian if you live in America.  Thanks for assuming though.

Atheists have existed in America for generations already - it's certainly possible you were born to one of them.

I meant that if born in the US, you are much more likely to be a christian than a buddhist.   No god has international influence like you think an all powerful god would.

Interesting point, except I think it is wrong.

The three major religions are Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

Each of them recognizes "fundamentals," including Jesus Christ. The interpretation of course differs among them.

But, obviously, Abraham, the Old Testament, are an underlying recurrence.

Christianity is just as much of a cult as Islam is.  You just don't think so because you are in it.

Wrong. Look up definition of a cult. Hint: It's not just a trendy word.

Islam is a cult because of it tenets.

In Islam, you can be killed for apostasy (leaving Islam).
In Islam, you cannot say anything derogatory about Muhammed, or you will be killed.


http://www.articlesbase.com/news-and-society-articles/islam-is-not-a-religion-islam-is-a-cult-877139.html
Read and learn.

[Vod]

[Interesting point, except I think it is wrong.

The three major religions are Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

Each of them recognizes "fundamentals," including Jesus Christ. The interpretation of course differs among them.

But, obviously, Abraham, the Old Testament, are an underlying recurrence.

And of course you are allowed to think it's wrong, even if you don't see it's only because of your association.  You are "too close", so to say.

I am curious as to why you call islam a cult, but not your own christianity.

What do you think the definition of "cult" is?    According to the dictionary, which most people get their definitions from, any group of people that worship the same thing is a cult.

[AndrewWilliams]

And of course you are allowed to think it's wrong, even if you don't see it's only because of your association.  You are "too close", so to say.

I am curious as to why you call islam a cult, but not your own christianity.

What do you think the definition of "cult" is?    According to the dictionary, which most people get their definitions from, any group of people that worship the same thing is a cult.

Further, if you got to Europe, you can see how Islam has turned many cities into disaster areas.

In England and Norway, there are many areas considered "no go zones" for non Muslims. Unlike going down a street in a nice neighborhood in the US or Canada, going in will not only elicit dirty looks, but will likely get you beat up or killed. Even the police will not go into certain areas for fear of violence.



Islam is a cult because of it tenets

In Islam, you can be killed for apostasy (leaving Islam).
In Islam, you cannot say anything derogatory about Muhammed, or you will be killed.
Preaching another religion in a Muslim country will get you imprisoned and or killed.

In Islam disciplinary action includes beating, maiming, stoning, beheading or jail. Excommunication is for minor offenses.
Those who leave Islam must live in constant threat of being discovered and killed.

Based on the above, Islam is a cult. It is the biggest and the most successful cult. It practically reunites every feature of cult. Other cults may not be cultic in some of the above points. But Islam is cultic in every way and it would be a gross mistake to number it among religions just because 1.2 billion benighted people call themselves Muslims.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50218.htm

[Vod]

Based on the above, Islam is a cult. It is the biggest and the most successful cult. It practically reunites every feature of cult. Other cults may not be cultic in some of the above points. But Islam is cultic in every way and it would be a gross mistake to number it among religions just because 1.2 billion benighted people call themselves Muslims.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50218.htm

You're making up your own definition of "cult".  You may disagree with what they do in their religion, but that alone doesn't make it a cult.  Again, look up the meaning of the word.

According to Wikipedia, christianity is the largest cult out there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups#Largest_religions

[Ekaros]

And of course you are allowed to think it's wrong, even if you don't see it's only because of your association.  You are "too close", so to say.

I am curious as to why you call islam a cult, but not your own christianity.

What do you think the definition of "cult" is?    According to the dictionary, which most people get their definitions from, any group of people that worship the same thing is a cult.

Further, if you got to Europe, you can see how Islam has turned many cities into disaster areas.

In England and Norway, there are many areas considered "no go zones" for non Muslims. Unlike going down a street in a nice neighborhood in the US or Canada, going in will not only elicit dirty looks, but will likely get you beat up or killed. Even the police will not go into certain areas for fear of violence.



Islam is a cult because of it tenets

In Islam, you can be killed for apostasy (leaving Islam).
In Islam, you cannot say anything derogatory about Muhammed, or you will be killed.
Preaching another religion in a Muslim country will get you imprisoned and or killed.

In Islam disciplinary action includes beating, maiming, stoning, beheading or jail. Excommunication is for minor offenses.
Those who leave Islam must live in constant threat of being discovered and killed.

Based on the above, Islam is a cult. It is the biggest and the most successful cult. It practically reunites every feature of cult. Other cults may not be cultic in some of the above points. But Islam is cultic in every way and it would be a gross mistake to number it among religions just because 1.2 billion benighted people call themselves Muslims.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50218.htm

Hmm I wonder what this reminds me of. Was there some rather popular religion similiar couple hundreds years ago?

[Vod]

I think I see the disconnection between AW and I.

He is using the following definition for cult:

A cult is a religious group with extreme beliefs and practices - beliefs that are often contrary to science and logic but they are believed as "obvious" truth by the cult members.

Whereas I, like the rest of the population, uses the standard dictionary definition:

a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

OR

an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers:

I have bolded the primary difference.  Clearly AW's definition has been "altered" to favor the rites and ceremonies of the christian religion, and to denounce as extreme the rites of other religions.

Basically, "I don't like what they are doing so I will label them"

Cult isn't a bad word - it just means a group of people that worship religiously, and it applies to all religions - not just ones you are not in.

I realize AW can't understand this, since he is "too close".  I won't senselessly debate this any more.

Peace out.   

[dank]

As it also applies to the government and those above it, the actual largest cult in existence.

[Vod]

As it also applies to the government and those above it, the actual largest cult in existence.

Christianity has 2 billion people in it's cult.  How many people in this government of yours?

[dank]

What's the world population?  7 billion?

[TheBorg]

I am not religious person, so no I don't give them ( church ) anything. Religion as far as I remember is based on poverty and not on wealth, so why would someone fill pockets of " man in black robes " or give money to a church that has walls covered in gold...

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/08/17/the-economist-estimates-the-catholic-church-spent-171600000000-in-2010/
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/08/wealth-of-roman-catholic-church-impossible-to-calculate/

[AndrewWilliams]

A Working Definition of a "Cult"

    The definition of cult in this essay is primarily non-theological. Traditionally Christians apply the term to Bible based groups that have significantly departed from the mainstream and historical creeds, particularly regarding the deity of Jesus and the meaning of His sacrifice on the cross. Bible based cults typically deny the full deity and humanity of Jesus, His atoning work on the cross, bodily resurrection, and return at the end of the age as King of kings and Lord of lords to judge the living and the dead.

    However, Islam is being examined here using a secular definition of cult, that is, the use of mind-bending psychological and sociological techniques to recruit, motivate, and retain converts and members. Contrary to popular understandings, cults may not be religious; they may be political, commercial, or psychological! educational in nature. Cults may be large or small, named or unnamed, known or unknown. They may have a leader or be without a leader. The essential issue is the use of control mechanisms that violate the individuality of participants to freely associate with the group.

    Cults are dangerous-they control, manipulate, and use those under their sway. Islam leaders issue declarations, a "fatwa", and may even call for a holy war, the "jihad". These clerical pronouncements place demands upon Muslims, which may violate their will and inner sensibilities. If Islam were not so fractured into sects and splinter movements, the non-Muslim world would face a more serious enemy that it does today. So strange is Islam, that it sanctions the murder of "infidels" and, of course, I am one and so is anyone who is not a Muslim.

Is Islam Cultic?

    My answer to the above question is that Islam is cultic. The following is a series of questions and assertions designed to demonstrate this contention.

    Why is Islam not a cult when in many Muslim dominated countries it is a capital offense to hand Muslims a Bible, or, to simply explain Christianity to them? Of course, the same holds true for a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Taoist who might attempt to pass along something of his or her faith. Saudi Arabia, the guardian of Islam's most holy shrines in Mecca and Medina, is a highly restricted society where Christians are not allowed any public expression of their faith.

    Why is Islam not a cult when it is virtually impossible for a Muslim to leave the religion even if one is not converting to another religion but merely wishes to become, for example, an atheist or agnostic?

    Why is Islam not a cult when Muslim warriors force their religion on people? The history of Islam is full of that kind of proselytization. Yes, I know the Roman Catholic Church has forced "pagans" to adopt Catholicism. However that church has recognized that in so doing it was wrong-headed, anti-biblical, and, indeed, anti-Christian. As a Baptist, I can say that in 500 years of our history we have not engaged in such tactics and neither have any of the traditional Evangelical, Protestant denominations.

    A vivid illustration of the cultic nature of Islam is the case of the novelist Salman Rushdie. Rushdie had a death contract issued against his life for what was taken as a slight against Allah in his Satanic Verses. Whereas, novelists, journalists, commentators, filmmakers, and television producers routinely critique Christianity without reprisal. Yes, I know there were the inquisitions, but again, those were carried out by the Roman Church, which is only one segment of the Christian Church. But with Islam, vengeance, reprisals, and even death contracts are systemic and ingrained in the religion.

    Many if not most Muslims who live in Western countries are not cultic extremists and will be patriots of whatever country in which they live. But, the commitment to Islam may run far deeper than loyalty to any nation. Muslims will change national or political affiliations if needed, but their commitment to the defense of Islam may be fanatical. Religious faith, especially cultic religious faith, may motivate people into radical behavior.

http://www.w3church.org/ISLAM1.html

[Ekaros]

Is bitcoin a cult then?

[TheBorg]

As it also applies to the government and those above it, the actual largest cult in existence.

Christianity has 2 billion people in it's cult.  How many people in this government of yours?

That is simply a lie, the number. % was calculated based on an average number of religious people in given country and multiplied by the number of citizens. So no, there are no 2 billion Christians....

[TheBorg]

A Working Definition of a "Cult"

    The definition of cult in this essay is primarily non-theological. Traditionally Christians apply the term to Bible based groups that have significantly departed from the mainstream and historical creeds, particularly regarding the deity of Jesus and the meaning of His sacrifice on the cross. Bible based cults typically deny the full deity and humanity of Jesus, His atoning work on the cross, bodily resurrection, and return at the end of the age as King of kings and Lord of lords to judge the living and the dead.

    However, Islam is being examined here using a secular definition of cult, that is, the use of mind-bending psychological and sociological techniques to recruit, motivate, and retain converts and members. Contrary to popular understandings, cults may not be religious; they may be political, commercial, or psychological! educational in nature. Cults may be large or small, named or unnamed, known or unknown. They may have a leader or be without a leader. The essential issue is the use of control mechanisms that violate the individuality of participants to freely associate with the group.

    Cults are dangerous-they control, manipulate, and use those under their sway. Islam leaders issue declarations, a "fatwa", and may even call for a holy war, the "jihad". These clerical pronouncements place demands upon Muslims, which may violate their will and inner sensibilities. If Islam were not so fractured into sects and splinter movements, the non-Muslim world would face a more serious enemy that it does today. So strange is Islam, that it sanctions the murder of "infidels" and, of course, I am one and so is anyone who is not a Muslim.

Is Islam Cultic?

    My answer to the above question is that Islam is cultic. The following is a series of questions and assertions designed to demonstrate this contention.

    Why is Islam not a cult when in many Muslim dominated countries it is a capital offense to hand Muslims a Bible, or, to simply explain Christianity to them? Of course, the same holds true for a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Taoist who might attempt to pass along something of his or her faith. Saudi Arabia, the guardian of Islam's most holy shrines in Mecca and Medina, is a highly restricted society where Christians are not allowed any public expression of their faith.

    Why is Islam not a cult when it is virtually impossible for a Muslim to leave the religion even if one is not converting to another religion but merely wishes to become, for example, an atheist or agnostic?

    Why is Islam not a cult when Muslim warriors force their religion on people? The history of Islam is full of that kind of proselytization. Yes, I know the Roman Catholic Church has forced "pagans" to adopt Catholicism. However that church has recognized that in so doing it was wrong-headed, anti-biblical, and, indeed, anti-Christian. As a Baptist, I can say that in 500 years of our history we have not engaged in such tactics and neither have any of the traditional Evangelical, Protestant denominations.

    A vivid illustration of the cultic nature of Islam is the case of the novelist Salman Rushdie. Rushdie had a death contract issued against his life for what was taken as a slight against Allah in his Satanic Verses. Whereas, novelists, journalists, commentators, filmmakers, and television producers routinely critique Christianity without reprisal. Yes, I know there were the inquisitions, but again, those were carried out by the Roman Church, which is only one segment of the Christian Church. But with Islam, vengeance, reprisals, and even death contracts are systemic and ingrained in the religion.

    Many if not most Muslims who live in Western countries are not cultic extremists and will be patriots of whatever country in which they live. But, the commitment to Islam may run far deeper than loyalty to any nation. Muslims will change national or political affiliations if needed, but their commitment to the defense of Islam may be fanatical. Religious faith, especially cultic religious faith, may motivate people into radical behavior.

http://www.w3church.org/ISLAM1.html

Why would you look a definition of a cult from Christianity view point?

Christianity wasn't even a religion some 2000 years ago, it was banned and it was considered something that isn't going to do any good to Roman belief system. Also considering that a cult is a belief in a deity, then Christianity is a cult, same as any other religion in the world. Gautama Buddha, a person that paved the path to Buddhism rejected the existance of creator  deity, and as far as I remember from school and talks, there is no concept of God like in Islam, Christianity and so on.

Also, every religion has their rules. One thing you didnt mentioned when you talked about Bible. Bible is written by man ( of many of them ), Kur'an was written by the man but the instruction ( or what to write ) was dictated by the God.
The, Christianity, same as any other religion is based on a reward system, that if you follow you get a reward and if you don;t, well you are punished. So that is the same as in any cult.

[just_me]

Do any of you religious folk practice tithing every month and if so why or why not? 

In the past few days I found out that a friend of mine gives 10% a month to his very wealthy church.  Yet, the dumb ass is massively in debt, spends 100% of his check (tithing included) and refuses to stop giving his hard earned money to his church.  ($500+ a month)

I sit here shaking my head but it's his money and it's his choice, but I do call him a fool.  While preaching against gluttony, the church sure does accept your money with open hands.  In my opinion they should be teaching simple economics, savings, paying off bills or putting money away for your children's college. 

No answer to the first question.

Your friend is not a fool. In fact, many sins will be forgiven those who give.

In fact, if people did not give, then people will suffer and die, or perhaps they will not hear the gospel of jesus christ,
and supporting the gospel of jesus christ is a good thing to do with money.

On the other hand, I have heard it said, that the tithing was a levitical protocol, but after Jesus Christ came and was crucified, then the levitical protocol of tithing came to an end at that time.

Nonetheless, if that is true, the priests or preachers are appointed ministers to preach the gospel of jesus christ, and they are seeking after a good work. and supporting them is a good idea, but whether or not it is yet legally binding or not in the bible? How do you interpret it?

[beetcoin]

Do any of you religious folk practice tithing every month and if so why or why not? 

In the past few days I found out that a friend of mine gives 10% a month to his very wealthy church.  Yet, the dumb ass is massively in debt, spends 100% of his check (tithing included) and refuses to stop giving his hard earned money to his church.  ($500+ a month)

I sit here shaking my head but it's his money and it's his choice, but I do call him a fool.  While preaching against gluttony, the church sure does accept your money with open hands.  In my opinion they should be teaching simple economics, savings, paying off bills or putting money away for your children's college. 

No answer to the first question.

Your friend is not a fool. In fact, many sins will be forgiven those who give.

In fact, if people did not give, then people will suffer and die, or perhaps they will not hear the gospel of jesus christ,
and supporting the gospel of jesus christ is a good thing to do with money.

On the other hand, I have heard it said, that the tithing was a levitical protocol, but after Jesus Christ came and was crucified, then the levitical protocol of tithing came to an end at that time.

Nonetheless, if that is true, the priests or preachers are appointed ministers to preach the gospel of jesus christ, and they are seeking after a good work. and supporting them is a good idea, but whether or not it is yet legally binding or not in the bible? How do you interpret it?

i don't mind to give, especially if i am well off. but i am realistic.. i know that many, if not most, charitable organizations don't really spend that much money on the causes that they purport to. instead, they gather money and launder it into their own pockets, which is what religious leaders do. look at the previous popes, living in opulence while surrounded by poor people and castigating harry potter and gay people.

this was even an issue during the times of jesus.