Bitcoin Forum

There is a big game maybe bigger than btc? Somehow value rising continuously. This never been happen before. I see that everybody happy with that. But this a baloon and when it is end damage maybe bigger than expections. Everybody speaking about bitcoin on tv, on newspapers etc. Many people investing to bitcoin. Many people will loose their thrust after that big fall.

What you thing? Someone trying to kill Bitcoin forever?

No, demand is rising due to its technological advantages. Press help accelerate this, and while there may be crashes ahead of time, we are not anywhere near the top now.

Nah, bitcoin has always been like that, nothing new

Everything will be fine ...

Yes, it does bother me a bit, and does concern me a bit about the future.
hopefully when it crashes, people don't abandon BTC all together!

Not correct:

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzm1g7zm2g25zl

Global adoption, supply and demand. What do you expect the price to do? Check out the speculation forum, people are literally begging for cheap coins.

My wallet isn't complaining.  ;D

It's sad, the willful ignorance by people to refuse to see this is little more than "Gold Fever", "Tulip Mania", fed by the media, is the exact ignorance that landed us as slaves to the current monetary system.  It's not that we didn't know deep down something was wrong, it was that we wanted to believe everything was ok, because the here and now feels so good.  The future be damned.   ::)  A few are going to get very rich and most are going to end up holding the bag.


...and there you have it. 

Quiet, my Bitcoin is talking to me  ;D

Bitcoin speaks, I listen  ;)

I guess you weren't here during April rush..

Welcome to bitcoin....

last year pick any day and MTGox had over 130k-150k of sale orders.. meaning there were that many BTC's deposited into MTGOX to be able to sell.

now there is 13k.. so ignoring the supply of coins in peoples personal wallets. there is a lack of supply on MTGOX, making MTGox prices shoot up, and every other exchange follow like sheep.

this has been noted by china's exchange slowing increasing its supply. so slowly you will see china flooded with coins, thus a chinese slow down and possible drop. while MTGox rises.

and then the chinese will ofcourse try selling at gox again to profit on the whole arbitrage between fiat currency differences.

all in all the volitility swings will happen more often now that there is a new country involved with a large population base playing the markets. we may not have noticed much of a change if a few UK exchanges popped up to steal the U.S owned BTC. but china.. well this is a whole new ball game.

This rush you speak of.... it sounds so, foreign to me.

Oh! The great calamity of April 2013! Oh yes, why I've heard the horror stories of it.

But no worry, Bitcoin is now mainstream (tm), and the Chinese are into it (tm), so to the moon we go (tm)!  :D ;D

Missing April Rush is like missing Woodstock..

It just makes me wish my wallet was fatter.

Don't worry, the wild value swings is an everyday occurrence in Bitcoin. I was actually amazed by how stable the price was at around $100. :P

People were saying the same 6 months ago..

It has always been like that and will remain like it for quite some time. It normally drops just as quick. Then people normally start panic selling and everyone shouts out "it's the end of Bitcoin sell now!" which can be quite annoying. As it does scare away newbies.

https://www.gldtalk.org/devteam/bubble.png

I think once this bubble pops the people will make more bubbles! In general people like bubbles.  :D

The demand from the Chinese wasn't present 6 months ago like it is today and the supply isn't all that much greater. Naturally the price will go up.

Well we have to look at this carefully this demand is coming from China, What will happen once the buying volume goes down? demand outpaces supply of Btc? The price will level off, but it could set off a wave of buying that could self sustain itself, It depends on how large the outside market is compared to china's.

It could remain stable any more rapid rises should be analyzed to see the size of the correction before it happens, It'll bounce back, but...;) if the demand is there, it could go to 1000.00 USD. That would mean a market cap of 12 Billion USD/BTC in circulation, that is a lot of cash to be moving around, the velocity of money should rise with the extra capital injected into the system. I am thinking it could create a Bitcoin business boom, maybe get a little circulation happening on the streets for a change.

Once the people find out that there's more than one make and model of automobile, the capital will begin spilling over to other automakers.

Its rising fast however it should slow down soon!

Yes it worries me a lot. Only speculators and short-term hoarders like bubbles, merchants generally hate them and I am one.

Rise in value is welcome as masses adopt the currency, but that rise has to be no more than 5% per year. Otherwise, it encourages hoarding and greatly discourages trading (which is, you know, the whole point of currency). And when a bubble pops Bitcoin will receive another dosage of negative press which will offset it's mainstream adoption again. In the end it's merchants who accept Bitcoin, that can make it a currency, not speculators, and merchants will not accept it, if it's jumping in value so wildly.

The volume on the exchanges is paper thin, and all it takes is one guy with a 1000 BTC suddenly deciding to liquidate his holdings, and then all this greed of hoarders, that you see on the boards here, will be replaced with fear and then - another crash, long-term damaging Bitcoin once again.

Bubbles may be good for speculation but they are detrimental to a currency.  A currency requires stability.  If the consensus is that, "This is just Bitcoin" and "It will always be like this.", then Bitcoin will never be a legitimate currency.  It will forever remain a speculative commodity, until people lose interest and move on to the next hot investment idea.  And that's not even adding manipulation to the equation, which all but renders Bitcoin useless as a currency by itself, and offers nothing to replace our current monetary system.  Those with the most, will skew the markets in their direction.  Same shit, different name.

It may be time to accept the fact that Bitcoin is not about anything other than making as much money hoarding and speculating as possible.  Everything else is just sales market pitch to get more people buying in, to swell the bubbles and feed those at the top of the pyramid. Most everyone else is going to be bagholders, sooner or later.  This is a rerun with fancier coding.  I guess I should just say, "thanks" and make sure I don't get caught holding one of those bags.   ;)

Cyprus. Isn't that what speculators used to justify the rise in price the last time?

It doesn't worry me, I think it will rise even more when more and more people find out about it.

In some plausible scenarios the actual value of bitcoin as a tool to solve real-world problems is quite high.  In that case, the value is not really increasing all that quickly and has a ways to go.

I continue to believe that things will probably not play out as described, but it seems to be becoming ever more possible.  I'd love to be wrong in my estimates.

This will be determined by the depth of the average pockets. A lot of people are buying BTC every month, using it as their investment fund for the future. If this  plays out right, we could get a windfall of people; Bigger market, more movement, more customers, it starts working more like a currency. The ATM recently installed in Vancouver, is proof there is demand, but the hassle of trying to get it is daunting and could be detrimental to a mass adoption; We need more ATMs on the ground.

A lot of people did. But, it's many factors which could of made it raise. And, it's pretty much just speculation which doesn't really mean anything.

There is no way to control the rise in value and second a rise of 5% per year with no speculation would mean the underlying economy is growing at 5% over the rate of monetary inflation per year.  For something as small as Bitcoin that would be a death sentance.  It would take decades for the userbase to grow even into the millions.

If you want slow steady rises in value wait a decade or two.  Bitcoin will either be gone or it will be magnitudes larger and the rate of growth will have been reduced significantly.

I honestly can't see bitcoin continuing like this forever. It's price is increasing at such a rate that I believe it must at some point collapse under it's own weight. The price will drop so severely that most disregard bitcoin for the foreseeable future and it is left at a meager price with only hardcore enthusiasts still using the currency.

Sure.

Bitcoin has crashed hard in the past and it didn't bring about doom and gloom despite similar predicts both before and after major crashes.

That's very true and likely will be true moving forward.  However, I suspect it will expose Bitcoin as something that is not a viable currency.  And if people don't believe it's a viable currency, it doesn't matter how high or low the price is.  The may speculate on it but they simply won't use for commerce.  And honestly, what percentage of the world population speculates for a living?

What is new and support constant price rise, is that Bitcoin is a defaltionary currency.. It's the first time a defaltion economy is created and is used..

Price may keep going up forever...

Nope. Too the moon!

And likely the last...deflation prevents spending and thus it's not an economy at all but just a speculative commodity, with a finite shelf life.  But, we'd never known if we hadn't tried right?  After this experiment is over, hopefully we can come up with some realistic solutions to our monetary systems problems.

Keep waiting.  Bitcoin actually has monetary inflation and will have it for over a century.   Price deflation would still be likely in Bitcoin even in the rate of printing was much higher.

What the hell do you expect dude?

Your arguments suggest no open source decentralized currency could ever be effective, because there is no way in hell you are going to give people the opportunity to invest in an open limited technology that is also a potential useful currency and NOT have MASSIVE fluctuations and volatility in its adoption phase.

I mean you are arguing against Bitcoin as a currency because of it's price volatility.

Then just go promote fiat. Or a centralized Ripple currency or ask Google to make Google coins. Because there is absolutely positively no way around the fact that disruptive technologies grow exponentially and with exponential growth you WILL have extreme volatility for months and years.

It amazes me how short sighted people can be.

And currency is only 1 of a myriad of potential globally disruptive aspects of the btc technology. Amazing.

Well it is easy to be "short sighted" when pushing an agenda. 

Wow. Someone still living in reality. I'm impressed. Not too many left on this forum. After all, hope spring is eternal.

I like your comments Coinseeker. Must be hard to make such comments with so many people having such a bullish view on this 'currency'.

If a merchant is accepting bitcoins as payment, and uses a payment provider like BitPay, not one satoshi is either gained nor lost due to having the fiat equivalent sent to their banking institute, if that's the way they have sales set up through BitPay, oppose to having them sent to another address in the merchant's control. If the later, then BitPay wouldn't necessarily be needed, with the exception of having a better interface in place.

Your concern is valid if paid via bitcoins to your wallet address and waiting hours/days to convert, otherwise a $100 sale puts $100, sans the ~1% fee, into your bank account, usually within 24 hours. It works the same way as if using PayPal, but without a 3.9% + $.35 fee structure or fear of chargebacks.

~TMIBTCITW

its highly likely that what we are seeing now is bunch of people investing on the hype without knowing much of bitcoin history. they probably still doubt its legitimacy and afraid of it going down. but then we have bunch of experienced users who seen it all and sitting on cash. once exchanges dry out and markets become very tiny and vulnerable (and expensive) all you will need is a whale dumping their coins bringing price down. in panic we will have bunch of newbs selling in panic of collapse. as we go down the experienced users will be watching closely to pick up on threshold price they are comfortable with. therefore earlier users will want it lower than later users as they came into game as the price was relatively high already. i believe we will be crashing, though times are different. more and more people are gaining trust in bitcoins nowdays therefore recovery will be almost instant with another bubble forming. fun times.

by the way. where would i find info on how much different exchanges hold? or maybe total number of how much they sell/buy. that will truly indicate to us how weak those exchanges are at the moment and when wales are highly likely to sell. it seems the quicker we go up, the more people start hoarding, the less bitcoins get to the market. we need slow, stable growth for this to succeed. so maybe less media exposure would serve us better at this given moment to gain international credibility as a solid investment. It could be that bitcoin is being attacked in such way so public is being encouraged to pump it and then get burned - as result abandoning this idea. since negative coverage didn’t work much – now the tactic has been changed.

The "reality" is the world is changing. And as much as some, like yourself, want to criticize the rise of price of BTC on speculation, all new technology is, to some great degree, speculative. That's why venture capitalists are called venture capitalists.

What's gets me is the shortsightedness of this viewpoint. First of all, it assumes that BTC's great value is in its ability to be (or not be) a viable worldwide currency. There is not necessarily a great argument that indeed BTC's greatest possibility is as a currency to begin with.

But EVEN if that is true, to assume that a decentralized currency could be have price stability when it is but a few years old, is ridiculous. It's like screaming at a baby for not being able to do calculus. It just does not make sense.

I'm a little doubtful that experienced users will be buying on crashes in great quantity.  Many of them probably have a lot of BTC and are feeling over-extended due to the price rise.  That's the boat I'm in.  I'm selling but not buying even though my confidence in the solution is as high as it ever has been (in terms of getting rich...not necessarily in terms of politics.)  The next collapse will see me switching from sell mode to hold mode, but it would take a fall to below $2.00 in the absence of any defect to turn me into a buyer again.  I'll be shocked to see that.

Of course some experienced users might be traders and willing to play the markets, but I am sure that a lot of them are not.

If you have tens of thousands of coins, this makes sense.  I mean if BTC were to reach a 100 billion dollar market cap one day, there might not be much difference for the average person whether they have $250 million or $75 million. So selling a majority of your holding at price points that allows you to have the lifestyle you want now, while mitigating your long term risk in case bitcoin goes down the rabbit hole, makes sense.

I, for one, like the idea of large bitcoin holders selling the majority of their coins over time. I think it provides more liquidity and allows the exchanges and other future agents of trade to give us correct valuations, instead of people always screaming speculation from the rooftops.

At the moment, over the course of the lifetime of me selling my BTC, I am way way way into profit. Now I have started to gather up BTC again and I strongly believe now the prices for BTC we are seeing increasing are nowhere near a plateau.

You ^nailed _it on all counts with respect to my situation (with fuzz for exact numbers.)


True indeed.  Since my first real exposure to Bitcoin, a really big problem in my mind was the GINI index.  I've yet to figure out a solution to that, and suspect that there basically is none.  But certain things could help.

Early on I was drawn to Bitcoin because I hypothesized that if large holders abused their situation, the small holders could in theory revolt simply by changing software.  In this way Bitcoin is vastly superior to gold.  This is why the GINI thing bugs me.  That is to say, maybe I am right :)

I was buying down into late 2011.  At that time I honestly felt that I was playing a valuable role by soaking up excess liquidity in a time of significant crisis.  I ended up with far more BTC than I expected to have.  Of course my primary desire was to get rich, but if I can both get rich and buffer out some of the volatility at the same time, I'm happy to oblige.

it definitely concerns me. like everyone, i don't know how much of it is attributed to actual utility of BTC vs. speculation. and also like most, i suspect that its growth has been due more to speculation than utility, although utility has improved a great deal within the past few months.

Define "too fast".

Don't jinx it!

This is the best explanation I have come across so far. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI

...and that's why nobody ever bought a computer. They're always getting cheaper and more powerful so everyone is still waiting to buy one.

Bubbles are pretty awesome.

Generally I'm not too worried, I'm just going to sell my BTC now and wait for a correction so I can purchase again.

As you're watching this bubble, check out the "stupidity forum", specifically Ebay. When old BFL FPGA units go from selling for $70 to $150+ for an 800 MH unit, you know people are being stupid.

When Crock Erupters go from $8 to $20+, you know people are being stupid.

Mining contracts? Yep, stupid.

Myself? I picked up 4 bfl chips for about $100 and am putting them on my $169.00 Jally. Got two on, hashing 16gh now. One more tomorrow, one more after I drop $20 for a set of heat sinks for the FETs.

Smart. 18gh or 800mh or 1.8gh. Where do you spend your $120?

C

It's not about being short sighted, it's just the belief that deflationary currency is not going to work.  Aside from the fact It just doesn't solve any of the world's monetary problems, it looks at government as if it's the main problem and that to me is the short sighted aspect of Bitcoin.  We still have a currency that is controlled by few and is easily manipulated so, even IF Bitcoin were to somehow replace the dollar, nothing changes but the names on the mansions.  Since most currency isn't created by the government, it's created by banks in the form of bank credits, every time you take out a loan, Bitcoin doesn't change anything.  Because you still have a system that can not create enough currency to pay back the interest.  You might as well go back to the gold standard because it would be just as effective.  Meaning, not at all.  

Decentralization only solves one issue, but people who don't have it, still have to come get it from those who do, so it's the same bullshit.  It's funny you mention Ripple because since our freedom is our ability to issue our own currency, Ripple is the closest thing I see to providing a sustainable monetary system, as being beholden to a bunch of rich Bitcoiners is not monetary freedom.  It's the same slavery we have now, just to a different group of people.  

But it is an experiment...so prove me wrong and every other economist that says deflationary currency won't work.  Do it but as the bubble grows bigger and more and more people hoard, it looks less and less likely.  That's not ideology, that's just math.

Bailouts via new money that devalues existing money can't happen in bitcoin. Fractional reserve would still happen, obviously, but leverage would be a lot less because there's no implicit lender of last resort. Consumers would cause bank-runs MUCH sooner than 100:1 leverage. The system would be less susceptible to long-run extreme tail-risk and moral hazard.



It's hard for people to think outside of the plane on which they've lived their entire lives. We've all grown up under a monetary system where supply expands by mandate (ie, the Fed's long-run 2% inflation target). In that context, deflation is bad, yes. But it's bad primarily because it's not the norm; it's unexpected when it happens, people *continue* to know that overall the economy is INflationary, so they hoard *while* it's deflationary due to their future expectations of the return to the mean.

That's very different than an economy where there currency is credibly *guaranteed* to be deflationary in the long-run and where the *exact curve* of money supply dynamics is perfectly known to all economic participants. In such case, people's core demand/supply curves take over and they can allocate capital optimally according to their own preferences, without having to worry about whether the *current* money supply dynamics are out-of-whack wrt long-term expectations. That entire calculus just goes away. Thus no harmful "hoarding".

Again, it's tough for people to intuit this, given the monetary norms of the past century. Thus I'll cut "every other economist" some slack for another few years.

Less susceptible is still a system that will fail, just at a slower rate.  Which will force bailouts or it will all come tumbling down.  Why?  Because Bitcoin does not prevent banks from creating new money, since the money is just numbers on the banks balance sheet.  Just as if everyone used gold as currency, it wouldn't matter.  Fractional reserve banking can "print" as much money as it wants.  Run on the banks won't happen as long as people keep borrowing, which they are sure to do.


I've read countless arguments for and against deflationary currency like Bitcoin.  Maybe what you say will prove to be true and maybe not.  One thing is for sure, it's merely an untested theory.  Beyond that, it's the bigger problem that concerns me and if there is not a 100% solution to that, the system will fail, regardless if what you believe, proves to be true or not.  I'm not against Bitcoin, I just don't think it solves the problems, so while you're talking about thinking outside the box, maybe someone would like to deal with the global banking cartel, because just creating a currency free from government, isn't going to accomplish that.

This rise is the same speed as early March.

Unskilled speculation is bad, but skilled speculation is GOOD.

Requird reading: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1mb27q/bitcoins_vast_overvaluation_appears_caused_by/cc7i6y8

Ya , I still think everyone will be happy the price is rising this fast I mean I know there could be a drop in price but still everyone should be happy

i actually wish the price doesnt rise that fast. government will intervene if it rises too fast.

The government will "intervene" for a lot of stupid reasons but that isn't one of them.

My main issue is not that you question bitcoin as a/the major world currency. Or that you question a deflationary currency.

My main issue is you seem to paint the subject of bitcions success or failure as black or white, a be all or be nothing. There are so many things bitcoin can be - a means of frictionless money transfer, a real store of wealth, a niche currency, a country's currency, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

So to just run around calling bitcoin nothing more than a speculative bubble is disingenious by you, imo. Especially if you read as much as you said you have.

I personally believe bitcoins can have a 100 billion dollar market cap and be a niche currency at best. That's not failure. That's not a bubble. That's a small part of a global financial system.

You sound to me like someone who had the opportunity to buy bitcoins cheap and did not. Now you complain about potential future bitcoin millionaires. That's not geniune, imo. Because you are justifying not owning bitcoins because of some idealistic belief that bitcoin isn't the answer to the worlds financial problems. You know, it probably isnt THE answer to the world's financial problems. But that doesn't mean it isn't going to carve out a nice little niche for itself in the world. (ie 100 billion market cap+)

I wonder what would have happened back in April if MtCox hadn't imploded. It just may have reached $500+ back then. And on that note, how much capacity do the major exchanges have right now? could they handle an extra 50-100% of trades? Barring any exchange collapses, the bubble could still be in a very early stage. if that is the case then there will be glitches when major holders decide they have enough to sell. But any wise trader would offload slowly so as not to upset the market in order to maximize their profits. Unlike when the Fed decides to bomb the gold price by dumping massive paper sell orders on gold they don't have. At the moment, BTC price is largely determined by there being more buyers than sellers. If we see someone dumping 1000+ bitcoins onto the market in one hit, and at a quiet trading time, then it is probably someone trying to deliberately crash the market. And they would probably succeed, for a short while at least. At the moment this bubble seems healthy. After it hits $500 the next phase could get very interesting.

"last year pick any day and MTGox had over 130k-150k of sale orders..
now there is 13k.. "

Is that based on number of trades, or $value of the trades?

Bothers me as well. I think many people are coming in who don't care about Bitcoin at all and who just want in because it's going up.

2 days ago I was trying to convince a colleague about the benefits of Bitcoin. I did the entire pitch and explained the concept to him and he was mildly interested, but I don't think he'd have taken any action. After that I quickly mentioned at what price I bought it and what the current price is and BAM, suddenly I had all his attention :).

Now, anything that gets people interested in Bitcoin can be good, but still, if people get in only because it's going up (but don't care about the fact that it's Bitcoin, it could just as well have been a random new company with prices looking like BTC charts) , then that's very worrying to me because these people will want to get out again immediately when it crashes and will probably tell everyone how it's a "scam" they should stay away from.

Slow and steady wins the race ;)

Yes, obviously. Which means that BTC is currently in it's infancy and needs it's user base to grow, before it can be ready to be adopted by big companies. On the other hand, how can it have it's user base grow if it's not adopted by anyone but speculators?

Exactly. If this rise is caused by new users coming in because of price rise, it's a house of cards. All it would take is one user selling off a 1000 BTC, or a couple hundred even, at once, everyone will start panicking and then.. pop. Hoarders here only seem to be thinking about short-term gains, not realizing or wanting to realize that it's only bad for Bitcoin long-term.

What bothers me more is that with every bubble comes people new to bitcoin who think they reinvented the wheel, such as OP who registered on October 28, 2013.

Having lived through the 2 prior "big bubbles," I say just enjoy it while it lasts. These are the happy times: everyone is making money and talking about million-dollar bitcoins and retirement and look like geniuses to all their uninitiated friends and colleagues.

The bad times come after the crash. Then you'll see these forums filled with people crying about Ponzi schemes, how Bitcoin is dead and Litecoin/Ripple/[insert]coin is the natural pretender to the cryptocurrency throne, how the US government/CIA/bankers conspired to destroy Bitcoin and finally won, and all the Bitcoin haters who tore their hair out for months then come back to declare victory.

I say "bad," but really I prefer those times. Much easier to buy more bitcoins and there's more focus on what I consider the more interesting bitcoin-related investments.

Doesn't US government has like a couple of thousand BTC after Silk Road etc.? I mean if Uncle Sam really doesn't like Bitcoin, then now would be the perfect time to crash it. Unless it would be illegal for police to sell confiscated Bitcoin, but it shouldn't be different than auctioning confiscated cars or guns, no?

Nothing will happen with those coins until after the trial, which will be years from now, guaranteed. How they get rid of the bitcoins is anyone's guess, although auction is a good one.  Tearing up the private key is another.  In either case, the people in charge of that decision are just as interested in maximizing their wealth as anyone. If they "crashed" the market while trying to unload their coins, I suspect someone would get fired.

offcoz you wont when its raising : )

Nice and clear headed, how refreshing round here!

What jumps high fast , drops down fast.
Timing is the question...

There are actually a lot of people that expect a crash so they can rack in more cheap coins, so if crash there is, it won't last long and won't go that deep.

The only negative side effect I see in bitcoin raising is... The ridiculous price to get VIP status here.  ;D

First, it is black or white to me.  That may not jive with your thinking, but that doesn't make it wrong.  Simply put, Bitcoin can be a store of value and/or a transactional currency.  There's not much grey area there.  Second, it's not disingenuous for me to state as much.  It's called an opinion and for people who espouse "Freedom" there continues to be many who don't like anyone talking contradictory to Bitcoin "religion".  I'm not here for Bitcoin religion and I don't stay involved in the crypto space for such nonsense.  I'm here to solve our world monetary issues.  I don't honestly care if it's Bitcoin or something else.  The brand name means nothing to me.

I hold Bitcoin.  I had an opporutuinty to buy at around $70 right before the SatoshiDice sale, so again, more speculation from someone who obviously values speculation over facts.  Live in your delusions.  But IMO, this a bubble.  It is not due to increased spending of Bitcoins, it's pure speculative demand.  Now, maybe it will all smooth out when the hype is gone and people will begin spending over hoarding.  Maybe theoretical Austrian economic concepts will prove to be true.  But for now, it's just a simple gold rush.  Tulip manic and potentially, a soon to collapse pyramid. Everything economists have been saying would happen from the start.  And even if all that should work out perfectly, Bitcoin still fails to solve our REAL world monetary issues, as I've previously stated.  Now, those are MY opinions.  If that leaves you butthurt, "frankly my dear, I don't give a damn." 

You know I agree that it is speculative demand and that it may crash a little but I don't agree that you can dismiss Bitcoin like that and say it doesn't solve any real world issues. The speculative demand is there *because* it solves real world problems and people see it is limited in quantity and now is the time to get into it.

It is still very hard to send money to a lot of countries and also to send money from a lot of countries. Bitcoin does solve that problem because it is not regulated or dependent on a slow moving central authority (private sector or otherwise) to approve it's use in these various untapped markets. It makes it impossible to impose capital controls. That is huge!

The good news is that crashes generally happen when nobody is anticipating them.

I take reassurance in a sense of uneasiness.  Blind confidence is what's dangerous.

There will be rises and drops, and rises.

Bitcoin Market Capitalization is about the amount the government debt grew each day in 2009. So I would think Bitcoin is still REALLY undervalued. Probably more so than any other asset in the history of finance.

How are people going to use those Bitcoin?  They have to turn them into government fiat.  Which means banking system, which means the same problems as we've always had.  I'll say it again...just creating a currency "free" from government, does nothing to resolve the issue that have our global monetary system on the verge of collapse.  It just insures that there will be a few new rich people and a bunch of bag holders.  And let's not even get started on the decentralization of Bitcoin, which anyone by now should be able to see is a farce.  It's totally centralized around the huge mining farms and the Bitcoin foundation.  He who controls the miners, controls Bitcoin.

And who controls the routers, controls internet.

But if they try to partition or censor the internet, it is simple to set up new routers to rejoin the partitions.

This is where you are disingenious. Tulips had no value. Pyramid schemes have no product or service.  This is the lowest form of argument against bitcoin. You will understand this one point one day ---> Bitcoin is a technology and technologies are more speculative and volatile because of their potential.

I'm sorry that the bitcoin "religion" - whatever that is, lol - leaves YOU butthurt. I'm sure Jeremy Allaire is really interested in this religion, lol.

Just be happy you bought at $70 and keep it as a hedge against your own lack of vision.

Just wait, if BTC starts getting really used as a normal online currency to buy goods the gov will start putting regulations on who buys miners, i mean you wouldnt want terrorists to control 51% of the mining power, now would you?

Access, yes, but cannot meddle with the information stored (assuming standard SSL encryption). You might rather say, he who controls the keys controls the information.

I'm very happy and I intended to put my Bitcoin profits into Ripple infrastructure.  You know...an actual potential solution to the entire problem, not just one little currency.  Oh, the sweet irony.   ;)  So please by all means...continue to inflate the bubble.  The war chest only grows larger.    ;D

I don't hear very many people saying good things about Ripple these days, make me wonder why.  ???

From what I understand, there:s not as much speculation and ROI potential for Ripple due to the volume.

Weird, considering the large corporate backing it has. 

Assume nothing. The NSA doesn't.

EDIT: To answer the original question- yes. Yes it does. But then again, I love it.

Yes, because speculation is what will fix our world monetary issues.   ::)

Why don't you just go work for Ripple?

I mean, I have never seen a person such a fanboy of a corporation who also preaches financial freedom for the people.  If you are good coder, I'm sure they are hiring.

Ripple is open source, thus one does not need to work for Ripplelabs.  Or did you not get the memo?  And it's not about being a "fanboy", it's about seeing the difference between real solutions to our problems and speculative hype.  If Bitcoin was actually a real solution, I would gladly say so.  Unfortunately, I can not make that claim but I will take the Bitcoin money, just like the rest of you.   ;)

Ripple is open source. I got the memo. But Ripple Corp. also owns a huge amount of Ripple and they also own all their private stock. How much of the Ripple private stock do YOU own? So congrats on making their board of directors wealthy. Good luck with that.

I hope they get ridiculously wealthy.  I hope they are the first US Trillionaires.  Unlike some, I don't have an issue with people making money.  You don't see me knocking people for getting wealthy on Bitcoin do you?  Not really sure what point you're trying to make.  

Sorry, I was buried in Ripple/GoldCoin/MegaCoin propaganda threads!  :D

Yes, I do see you knocking people for getting wealthy. Or should I cut and paste the post you made about how bitcoiners becoming wealthy was just as bad as our current wealthy bankers.

You are constantly knocking bitcoin almost any chance you get. I'm glad you a passionate about Ripple. But shouldn't you join/start and Ripple forum? Seriously.

You misunderstand, it's not about wealthy, those comments are about Bitcoin not solving the problems, so the people end up being beholden to wealthy Bitcoiners under a new currency.  A currency that few have and the majority have to come to the few to get.  Same old thing, just a different fiat.  You apparently don't understand much of our global monetary issues and thus my comments are flying over your head.  I can see you are emotional but that's really your issue.  You are also free to click that little ignore button at any time you choose, to join the rest of the crybabies who I'm glad I don't have to listen to anymore.  

There's a little thing called freedom, maybe you've heard of it.  So I'll continue to post as long as I choose.  I'm not here to be your friend and I don't care if I hurt your feelings.  I say what I want, when I want and if that's too much for you, then kindly stop responding.  If you'd like to have an actual conversation, that doesn't include your feeling getting hurt everytime someone mentions Ripple, I'm more than happy to do that too.  It's your call, sport.   ;)

Sounds like the only coin that would make you happy is CommieCoin!  :D

I do agree with people being too sensitive whenever someone is critical of their beloved alt-coin!

No need to be condescending. I understand our global monetary structures very well. You are more idealistic than I. You think BTC should become a viable world currency or nothing at all. I don't believe that BTC or Ripple will usurp our banks. I do not think the major global currencies will fail anytime soon. I do not think that any crytocurrency will rule the financial world.

I do believe that BTC has a good chance of becoming a niche currency or a solid secondary currency for some/potentially most of the world. I think BTC is a better store of wealth than any precious metal and thus has the opportunity to grab at least a decent share of the asset class resources. I think BTC as a major money transmitter is going to happen.

I think the eco-system that is starting to bud up and around BTC will create innovations for BTC that you and I have no imagined. I think this will happen because BTC is a true people's currency.

And I think BTC has the chance to make me rich. And I have a lot of important projects I want to finance to make the world a better place.

You are welcome to post all you want on here, obviously. I also have the right to call you out on what I believe is an ideology that is not well thought out.

Bitcoin is a populist currency because it's decentralized. Ripple is controlled entirely by one company -- they make the ripples and decide how they are distributed. I looked into Ripple a few months ago and decided not to support it, because it's one corporation creating a new form of money out of thin air and trying to get people to use their new money so that they, the Ripple corporation, can get rich. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is not controlled by any single corporation and everything regarding bitcoin is decided by community consensus.

Basically, Ripple is like somebody creating a new version of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Bitcoin is like Wikipedia. One is centrally controlled, the other is not. That's why I support bitcoin and not Ripple™.

Thank you for coming with some reasonable dialect.  We are in agreement to a point as I don't think any single crypto currency will rule the world.  However, it's not about BTC being a viable world currency or nothing at all, it's that even if it was a global currency, it wouldn't solve our problems.  Fractional banking would still exist.  Bitcoin does not prevent that.  Just as if you replace currency with gold, it won't prevent that.  That's what I was talking about in the comments you previously referenced.  Bitcoin's deflationary nature also promotes hoarding which is detrimental to a currency.  All of which I've said, as my own opinion. 

Now you're right, you have the right to call me out on anything you want.  And I welcome and respect it because I obviously do the same.   ;)  If I happen to be wrong, I'll even admit it.  I think Bitcoin will be a currency of some people.  I think their will actually be many self issued currencies that will emerge from global economic meltdown.  I'm of the belief that the closer we get to a barter system, the more solvent our future will be.  That's really why I like Ripple and the fact I can still use Bitcoin too is a huge plus.  That's just me.  I realize when some people hear "Ripple" they get defensive because the really hear, "Bitcoin competitor".  I know that's not the truth so, I don't have issue in speaking on it and just as you want to build projects to make the world a better place, so do I.  And I said as much and you attacked me because it contained the word "Ripple".  Maybe you should take a look at that, before trying to figure out if my "ideology is well thought out."

Except Bitcoin is no longer decentralized.  It's controlled by huge mining farms, that are one way or another, controlled by the Bitcoin foundation/core developers.  I'm not going to rehash Ripple for you, other that to say, you really have no idea what you're talking about.  "Looking into" something and learning about something, are two completely separate things, as you've clearly just shown.

I realize that people can also trade bitcoin or other altcoins using the Ripple platform, or even create their own currencies, and maybe in that way Ripple could become a useful service. If they had just done that, I'd be all for it. But what I don't like is the fact that they also created their own currency, the ripple, and they are hoping to make lots of money by getting people to use it. That is the very definition of fiat currency.

I don't expect the ripple to catch on as a currency anyway, so I suspect it's a moot point, but let's just say I'd be much more positive towards Ripple if they stuck to being a platform for exchanging altcoins rather than trying to create their own fiat money.

That's a fair argument and one that has been made many times.  You have to have a crypto currency inside the network to prevent spam.  That's a given.  Whether they should be able to profit off that currency is a personal matter and you're right, it could be a moot point because people don't have to use it.  They are gambling that people will use it and XRP will be valuable but nothing says that it will.  The Ripple network will work just fine if XRP is not ridiculously valuable.  The ability to create ones own currency is where I think Ripple will really save the day after global collapse.  Because then communities can issue their own currencies based on their own labor and exchange them for goods and services.  There is nothing more "free" and full of liberty than the people's ability to issue their own currencies.  And, people can still use Bitcoin or any other currency their "communities" choose so, it's just free all the way around, IMO.  I don't want anyone to tell me I have to use one currency or the other.  I just want to do what I want.  That's one of my issues with Bitcoin, is people try to jam it down your throat like Jahovah's Witness' or something.

The price is only allowed to rise this fast:

https://i.imgur.com/smPfATY.png

Now it is rising too fast and the train has been derailed.

I like the idea of people and communities being able to issue their own currencies. It'll be interesting to see whether Ripple or "colored bitcoin" will catch on for that purpose. Maybe both will. And maybe lots of people will use bitcoins on Ripple. I'm guessing that first-mover advantage will give bitcoin the advantage as a widespread digital currency, but as you say, it's possible that Ripple could succeed as a useful business even if XRP does not become a widely used currency.

Right.  I think Bitcoin is going to show people that crypto-currency is safe, in that it can't be hacked so it's ok to use, day to day and to store value.  So, Bitcoin is really educating people on new tech and that's needed if we're ever going to see a transformational change.  Otherwise, they'll just revert back to some new government fiat, based on some politicians clever speeches.  I don't think Bitcoin will ever cease to exist in the space as a store of value and I think there will always be some who will use it for transaction too.  Whether that is a larger percentage of the population, remains to be seen.  I'm betting no because of all the reasons I've previously stated.

Price has reached 900.00!! It could be a bubble, it moved too damn quickly... a 900.000 dollar correction, would drop it down under 100.00 at this point... to stabilize at 300.00, but if it can be sustained...

At this point, we need media, we need businesses that accept Bitcoin to be very easily accessible... whatever the Bitcoin community has built so far, will have to do and this new surge has to be advertised and catered too, with the newly available funds that this boom has created ASAP. Those ATMs can't get on the ground fast enough, and everyone better start investing atleast a quarter of what you have, I know I am. I'm buying ASICS, shares and buying some goods, 50% of what I got is going that way, the rest for the future.

I really hope we can sustain this level of Market Capital; If there is a drop, it could turn into a cascade as people try to cash in before it drops... lets just be happy with what we have achieved a small loss in price now, is better then a torrent of dumpers.

on the positive side if we can go beyond 1500.00 the price will be stable at that market capitalization, 18 billion dollars... that will be very nice to see.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=159507.msg3635046#msg3635046

The volatility is ridiculous. It is becoming impossible doing business with Bitcoin now. At least with escrow.

maybe use bitpay?