Bitcoin Forum

Ohh noeeez I said the unthinkable to the bitcoin fanboys, that bitcoin will get destroyed by whatever coin comes out that will make this dinosaur obsolete.

Because wait please explain to me the benefit of waiting 30 hours to make sure my order is confirmed instead of a few seconds using a credit card? Anonymity!! Guess what when bitcoin becomes "mainstream" which it never will for the very fact that it takes forever to confirm any normal transaction.

The mainstream places are going to ask you for personal information, like Amazon, Walmart, whatever company you can think of, so it basically becomes a nice tracking tool to track every single transaction you ever make in your life, as they have your name and address and can match your bitcoin wallet.

But those are flaws in all crypto currencies, people celebrate them for freedom yet they fail to realize that they will be the most sinister, draconian tool of control even invented. Why do you think big government loves crypto so much, and are passing regulations to make it legal in their frameworks.

They know once they have the infrastructure in place they can track every single transaction that a person makes, and in the process they would have eliminated "cash" the only true form of anonymity.

Back to bitcoin though, Bitcoin is basically AOL dial up internet, waiting to be destroyed by Time Warner high speed cable. Bitcoin can't compete in the real world of instant transactions, hence it will never be used for anything of importance main stream.

As soon as a new crypto currency comes out that offers true instant transactions, Bitcoin will be dead, there is actually a coin coming out just around the corner, you'll all know of it soon enough, which will dominate crypto and won't be replaced by anything even remotely soon after, as it solves all Bitcoins problems. Any coin that tries to compete with it won't matter, as they will only be marginal improvements and not worth the "mainstreams" time to implement them.

It will have first mover advantage and keep it, Just like Visa and Mastercard. There will be clones trying to compete but they won't get anywhere as they will only offer marginal improvements which people won't bother or waste their time with. Just like the countless payment clones to the major payment processors, nobody gives them any attention.

Laugh, Cry, Hate, or Love just know this will all happen, and you have been forewarned.

Yeah, something might replace Bitcoin. I think everyone is already aware of that.
Better hurry up though, Bitcoin is getting more entrenched day by day.

Gavin and the community will take any improvement your new wondercoin offers, adopt it for bitcoin and things will be fine.  Bitcoin is not set in stone - if there is a consensus that something needs to be changed, we have the technology and the motivation to make that change.

It's should be out sometime in January, that's the thing though Bitcoin can be entranced and it will still easily come crashing down.

Just like the only way people got online in America during the 90's was America Online, America Online entrenched in everything, and then it was all gone.

So what alt-coins you heavily invested in?

Nope, Bitcoin as a protocol can't function for instant transactions, it needs to be reworked from the ground up, pretty much creating a new crypto currency, by the time that happens, if it ever happens, the new "wondercoin" has crushed it.

Just Like AOL tried to finally catch up to Cable internet by offering it's own High Speed Option, by then it was too late. You don't have to be a genius to realize this thing is way to slow for real transactions, the fact that they haven't done anything to it for the last 5 years shows how amazing Gavin and the community is lol.

None, as 99% of them are all useless clones, and the one I am speaking about is currently in Beta.

I hope this isn't some sort of fruitless Ripple pump thread.  :D

Why do you keep going on about AOL's dial-up cash cow?  

http://cir.ca/news/dial-up-still-thrives-at-aol

Its a hugely profitable business.

If this is true you would not tell us, because its strengths are so great you would wait until you bought a lot of it or mined a lot before getting people on board.

If people here believe you they take away the potential for cheap wondercoins.

A zero confirmation transaction whose inputs are practically instantaneously validated against the blockchain is already beneficial to a merchant beyond any service VISA or any other payment system offers, because the credit card transaction is reversible at any time within a month. Waiting for the confirmations only protects against an attempted double-spend attack, which only is relevant in the real world proportional to the amount of money being spent.

I re-iterate, credit cards are already inferior to Bitcoin for point-of-sale transactions without ANY confirmations whatsoever.

No. It's already better than any existing payment network for instant transactions right out of the gate.

Ripple lols no, I'll give you the name so you can keep a look out for it on the alt currency thread, or even stop by to the site.

eMunie, you can join the people and get involved at forum.emunie.com

To give you a comparison:

BitCoin: about 80K transactions with 1 confirmation taking a bit over 2 hours.
eMunie: 100K transactions confirming in under a minute, only on a beta network of 15 nodes.

Keep a look out for it on the Alt section, or join the forum and help in testing and keep up to date.

Seriously, you people need to bone up on what the blockchain actually is, and what confirmations actually mean, because this is all complete nonsense.

Good luck convincing people to accept 0 Confirmations, will never happen with normal mom and pop. Secondly, for the transaction to even show up sometimes is takes a minute or longer. So even 0 Confirms are slower than Visa.

Lets have a long talk about the usages of "cute".

No that's the problem normal people will not give two shits what a blockchain is, when they see that the program shows the transaction is not confirmed they won't care about double spends, triple spends, or whatever technical word you throw in their face.

I have found some links incase anyone is interested:

I don't understand how the internals work yet, need to do more reading.

Key features:
http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/12012/what-are-the-key-features-of-emunie-a-crypto-currency-thats-not-a-bitcoin-fork (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/12012/what-are-the-key-features-of-emunie-a-crypto-currency-thats-not-a-bitcoin-fork)

Homepage:
http://emunie.com/ (http://emunie.com/)

Forum:
http://forum.emunie.com/ (http://forum.emunie.com/)

Bitcointalk thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220530.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=220530.0)

So basically I'm right, because your original claim was about the protocol, and now you're making a claim about psychology (which is as trivial a fix as what terminology an end-user client displays).

Which is it?

Speed of transactions is not the significant factor retarding BitCON's adoption for more transactions.

The primary factor is that BitCON is not widely distributed in the population of 7 billion.

Thus only merchants who have a high concentration of BitCON owners are incentivized to accept BitCON, e.g. drugs at CrimeSite, domains at CheapName, vpns at ShoreOffUpYours, etc..

The distribution problem is also why BitCON is a ponzi scheme (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=333824.msg3633920#msg3633920).

How cute, you are trying to sell your (one of thousands) alt coin on the Bitcoin Talk forum.

It is the protocol, for a transaction to be confirmed against double spends Bitcoin requires 6 confirmations, for you to be safe.

Secondly, even with 0 confirmations sometimes they take over a minute to show up.

Thirdly, A confirmed transaction is 6 confirmations which takes about anywhere from 4-24hrs. So it's the protocol.
The same protocol that makes it complicated for the average person to understand or want to understand when the transaction is confirmed.

just a loser who didnt buy and lost out to astronomical gains ;D ;D

noooooob

1st it's not my coin, just naming the most probable coin that will initiate the Bitcoin crushing, Heck something else could come out also that will crush it. That's the thing it can be any new secure protocol that offers instant transactions times.

Second, how cute you have a broken fail website, please enlighten me more about your opinion.

100% wrong.

It is consumers who decide what payment mechanism succeeds and Bitcoin is inferior for POS transactions to credit cards, since credit cards offer protection for free, whereas Bitcoin doesn't. Only a fool would pay with Bitcoins for any goods if they could pay with cards.

That is why Bitcoin will never take off for buying goods other than where it has advantages such as in very small payments or cross-border where the parties do not have access to usual methods.

An untrue statement.    Please reread Satoshi whitepaper and while your at it Meni paper of the economics of double spending.  For most transactions 1 or 2 confirmations is more than sufficient.  Nobody is going to risk $100K in block rewards to double spend a $500 purchase.


Another false statement.   Propogation time on the network is measured in seconds.

Yep massive noob who bought at $50-$100.

You, just another Mad moron who bought at $500-800 and is getting ready to get destroyed.

Really?  If your gas station (the one you have gone to 500 times in your life and never had a problem) offered you a 3% discount everyday for paying with Bitcoin you would be a "fool" to take it?  What if Amazon.com, Papajohns, or some store you routinely use and trust did?

Ohh ok Great so 1-2 confirmations, today that would be about 4 hours. YAY Bitcoin such a great success, let me buy some Dominoes Pizza in the morning and hopefully at some random time of day get it delivered.

Secondly, incorrect I've had multiple transactions take over a minute to even show up.

Third nobody is going to accept 0 confirmations. The end.

If a tx took minutes to show up the the person sending it didn't send it for a few minutes.  Propogation times is measured in seconds.  Bitcoin simply could not work with propogation times in minutes.  If tx takes minutes to relay then blocks would take hours and how can a chain be built if blocks are arriving hours after they were sent.  Just because you are clueless doesn't mean Bitcoin is broken.

As for 1 confirm takes 4 hours well that is just stupid.   Did you include a tx fee?  Average time between blocks is still ~9 minutes. 

As for "nobody" accepts 0 confirm tx.  I did.  Sold prepaid cellphone cards.  0 confirm for repeat customers.   Not a single attempted double spend.  Nearly $1.3M in sales over six months.  So your wrong on "nobody".  A lot depends on the risk profile of what is being sold.

So you don't understand Bitcoin, make factual errors and thus believe you have found something (closed source, non-working website) superior.  Have fun with that.

That's cute you sold Cheap cellphone cards with 0 Accepts. How about bigger transaction would you still sell them with 0 confirmations? Second, you a person on bitcointalk is not Joe, from Joes Pizza, or Cindy your next door neighbor. We might accept 0 confirms for small transactions but regular users will not, and if they do it's a small majority.

Third Bitcoin will die guaranteed, again feel free to get mad and sad about those words. Just like Myspace died to Facebook, and just like dial up died to cable, and millions of companies who were destroyed by the competition, Just like Altavista and Lycos by Google, and the list goes on and on.

Just like TCP/IP was killed off by ....
Just like eBay was killed off by ...
Just like x86 was killed off by ...

Did the customers have to register their identity on the simmpaks on their cellphone in the jurisdiction you sold into?

Those jurisdictions that don't is one of the last bastions of true anonymity. Won't be around much longer as the USA is effectively bullying every nation into compliance with the NWO plans.

No and it was US cellphone plans. I have no idea what you are talking about, but then again I usually don't.

Great argument, why would they killed off? Nothing better has come to replace them. But there sure will be better coins than bitcoin. When a payment method can fully confirm within seconds and not worry about double spends, Bitcoin is dead. It might not happen this year or the next, but it will happen.

Enjoy

I already refuted that logic in the Problem With Altcoins thread at the following post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279650.msg3515394#msg3515394

You are conflating centralized standards with decentralized currencies. The latter are not subject to centralized issues that prevent competition.

In that thread above, we entirely debunked the network efforts inertia argument for BitCON.

In a few countries, one can still access the internet and send SMS anonymously using an unregistered simmpack and prepaid cards.

Btw, I am a US citizen.

Please don't hurt him, he's still in the fragile denial phase.

I guess the US is one of those countries as I never registered or provided any personal information for my prepaid smartphone.   It is T-Mobile hardly "hacker elite pro" brand.

Ok but you are too. Transaction confirmation speed is not the main problem of BitCON right now. You are barking up the wrong feature.

And your technical understanding is a bit remiss too. Although I won't rub it in.

No one knows the future - but this thread looks more like a plug for emunie than anything else!

Well , there are a few examples in history how the first thing doing something new was replaced shortly by a improved version and went mainstream.
Oh , forget about this 800/btc , it's a price it does not indicate adoption or anything else , but pure speculation.  

Sure , some new crypto could easily replace bitcoin , (or a hybrid crypto currency) if it would have features bitcoin lacks and it would catch better to the general public.
But , currently there is nothing like that on the market , so bitcoiners can stay calm.

Hadn't been stateside since 2006 so I didn't know that. I assumed all were registered with an identity. Interesting. Thanks.

And when not if it does come on the market, they will have time to evaluate and make a decision, so still no reason to panic. They can buy what is best for them.

But the government and mass media will be heavily pushing BitCON. Because it is the NWO-outcome coin due to inadequate distribution which causes it to be a ponzi scheme which is undeniable if you think about it mathematically as I explained in great detail. No better way to bring all the governments together than to implode the wealth of the masses as they buy in at the top in every country.

If you really care about having something decentralized long-term, you will think very carefully about this, as new choices are offered to you.

I'm not talking about BitCoins merits as a monetary store of value, or the freedom it stands for, blah blah. That is the main problem of Bitcoin along with many others, Average people do not care about anything but speed and security, if it doesn't have both nobody will use it over their credit cards who offer both. Ohh great you can't reverse transaction in Bitcoin, so i can get scammed and no one will protect me. Win Credit Card.

The only coin that has a chance for mainstream adaption is one that provides speed and it's simple as that. Nobody will wait minutes for their purchases to be confirmed and accepted. There are many other problems but I am just speaking about mainstream adaption.

Average people don't own BitCON, and by the time they do, they will be buying at the top due to simple math I explained.

BitCON is owned by technology followers, mostly male.

So you have no market for your coin with fast transactions, if you can't first get it distributed to the masses.

It's not just Bitcoin, It's crypto currencies in general. They want a cashless society, but they want control over it. The future is not Bitcoin, and unfortunately not eMunie either. The future will probably be a one world government issued digital coin, which won't be anonymous and will be controlled, in every aspect. You think they want some clowns who mined bitcoins on their CPU computers to be worth billions one day?

They will just transfer the current bank balances into an inflationary crypto currency to make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

But there is a way we can win. We have to fix some things in BitCON.

It is easy to transition BitCON to the government coin. I have laid out several senarios, including the ponzi crash, the Transactions Withholding Attack, and another researcher the selfish-mining attack (which I pointed out can be combined with the pool-share-withholding-attack to make it resistent to the kind of retorts that Gavin is making).

All of these issues and more can be fixed.

But BitCON can't fix some, and won't fix others.

You will have the whole Bitcoin market which is growing, and the whole crypto currency market which will become the future of currency, especially now in the beginning stages. Think about all the people who use Facebook credits it's the same thing basically. They convert their money into credits/gems/whatever to purchase in game items. There are millions of people who do so every day, they don't think twice about it. They do it because it's simple and fast, it doesn't take them 1 hour to receive their credits.

The market will start off with technology followers, and then once people see the coin is actually useful for real transactions, it will continue to grow, among the other merits that they deem positive about it.

Nevertheless the fractional BTC owners who only want to transact won't comprise 1% (much less 10%) of the market cap any time soon. So they don't stop the ponzi outcome.

We need serious distribution.

But that is the thing it doesn't matter if Bitcoin gets fixed. If they can't takeover Bitcoin, they will just make their own coin and replace it.

Of course nobody is saying it will happen overnight, none of the new companies who replaced the old ones, did it over night it took a few years. Yes Bitcoin is a true ponzi, just like many others.

Who is they?

But it will need to grow 100X per year, so 10X faster than the Bit.

So quite fast, yet small fast growing phenomena appear to be small still for a while.

And this won't be easy. Certainly instant confirmed transactions is not the feature that will do it. Be nice to have one day sure.

And closed source is already an indication it won't be that coin.

Agreed that things could be made much less confusing with transactions. It is really stupid when I pay from localbitcoins, it sends me to BitPay, but then I click and nothing happens. Then I send from localbitcoins, then I reload the BitPay and it says completed. What average facebook user (or grandma) would ever figure that out.

The powers that rule the world whatever name you would like to give them.

For eMunie there are many more features, peer to peer messaging, later on a decentralized exchange, its only closed source in the beginning when it grows so people don't just clone it, it will then become open source once it has been established. Not to mention other features interest, anti hoarding, no 51% attack, there is so much. A white paper should be coming soon from the dev.

We the beta testers pushed the developer to keep it closed source, just because clones would appear instantly.

Oic. They can't if the coin has already pervasive distribution. They can with the Bit, because it doesn't and when it does, it will be the bubble peak in price, because the masses come in last and suffer most.

How does eMunie solve distribution?

SocialistCoin won't fly either. Has to be based on capitalism.

The only reason why clones could be a problem is when your are only in it to profit from a early adopter advantage.

If that's the Goal of the majority of Beta Testers, that's not really an Argument for a currency.  :-\

Anony I am not the slightest person to ask these things haha. Join the forum and speak to the dev, as I mentioned before a white paper will come out before launch.

There are also some emunie threads in the alt coin section.

I can see some merit to your argument, but early adopters also promote the coin. If you dilute them, you hurt your marketing.

If I had a killer feature, I would hold it closed-source until my mining network hashrate was too large for someone to clone effectively.

The Bit had the same advantage, because no one was watching in 2008.

Not really I just like the coins features very much. I was one of the people who had plans to clone the coin after release, but saw how great it was that I want it to succeed. Also,  it for the dev who has programmed day and night for almost a year to see it get destroyed would suck. It's not about monetary gain it's about building something you put alot of work into you want it to succeed not fail.

This ^^, the point though is there are better coins coming along whether it's eMunie or Ripple or whatever name is out there something better, is coming out that is going to replace Bitcoin.

Can we ignore this until its out in the open?

I read somewhere something about paying for access to this and that the creator tries to control the price fluctuaction.
Could someone specify on that ?

Bitcoin was open-source from the very beginning of its distribution, think about that and come back when emunie is a thing...

We sorely need some serious altcoins to take some of the ponzi off of the Bit. Would be better for all including Bit fanatics.

And no one was watching so it was effectively closed-source if you want to compare the effects versus an altcoin being closed-source for short period of time to gain first leader advantage on its new features.

wide distribution is necessary only if bitcoin is used as currency or unit to measure value.

There is no need to represent prices in bitcoin today, so I don't see the need for users of the bitcoin system to own bitcoins. There is no need for bitcoins to use the platform as a mean of payment.

bitcoins are just like shares of the platform, they are not legal shares, they are shares by the very construction of the system.

Facebook users don't need a facebook share to use facebook. Would you say something like : Facebook will never become popular unless everyone owns a little bit of facebook shares. Makes no sense right ?

Similarly, people using the bitcoin system to pay don't need to ever own bitcoin.

There are already services that convert USD to bitcoin for the buyer and bitcoin to USD for the seller. Neither the buyer nor the seller need any bitcoin exposure.

On facebook, neither the user nor the advertisers need an exposure to the facebook share.

People are confused with the bitcoin technology because bitcoins are used in transactions they think that they must be a currency. No they are not. Despite the name "bitcoins", bitcoins are not "coins". They are just the virtual substance of the system. And that system can work without any bitcoins in the hands of the end-users.

The system as it is is way too technical for grandma and the average facebook user. Granted ! it will receive lots of application layers in the future by many startups that are already working on it and that will make the use of the bitcoin system transparent for the mainstream.

And about the argument about clones, one can also say that facebook is worth nothing because any new social media platform might come up tomorrow. Not impossible but improbable. Of course facebook is an extreme exemple, but bitcoin has a huge lead and there is no clue today that any other will really take off.

MahaRamana, I read that there are many social networks succeeding at eating away at facebook. I haven't researched that in detail.

So you are referring to fractional reserves of BTC?

Or reusing the concepts in an altcoin?

We can't reuse the blockchain with fractional reserves so are you referring to merged mining?

I am calling "hotair" on your post until you can clarify where this distribution resides specifically.

You don't need to pay for anything. This thread is not about eMunie it's about Bitcoin getting replaced by better alt coins, it just turned into emunie because someone asked me about it. It's not the creator the currency itself controls the rate of production. It's not simple things, there is so much to it, but it's not negative, you really need to look up the emunie threads and join the forum, there is just way to much information. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful it's just I don't want to give you wrong information with stuff I quite don't understand 100% myself, especially not coming from a technical background.

Got out at 150 $  ?

You used to be supportive of Decrits, eMunie, etc.

You've changed since BTC has risen to $800.

Got to love what greed does to the pre-frontal cortex via spiking dopamine.

There are better designs , they're already made , id say the reason BTC is rising is in part due to that .

Slap! Not telling people to get out now, just to be aware that in the future Bitcoin will cease to be what it was, and that Bitcoin is not going to take over the world, but just fizzle out and get replaced by something much much better.

Oh so you have your own altthingy now (Nybble?), so you bag on the others?

That is the thing, Nibble is a clone, emunie and the others are different architectures from the ground up, you can be sure if emunie came out tomorrow open source next day digital industry would have a clone of it lol.

I just don't believe that that will happen for many reasons.

Firstly, most significant companies pay less than 3%, I paid under 2% on one of mine and don't forget that the blockchain fees are currently 1% plus the cost of using BitPay or another application provider. So the savings are minimal (and will be less again for companies the size of Exxon or Amazon). Also until that firm can pay for it's goods in Bitcoins it must then change the BTC back to Fiat which costs more fees and also runs the risk of the amount they receive changing due to the price volatility.

Commercially it just doesn't make sense, which is why most providers who currently offer BTC do it for a small part of their business as an advertising gimmick, or because they are Bitcoin enthusiasts happy to gain some coins.

reported.

I finally figured out why BitCONers get so defensive about an altcoin becoming successful.

Ignorant gloating combined with fear and jealously! They want their place in the hierarchy of the ponzi scheme is static, i.e. who ever bought after them is lower than them on the totem pole.

This is just male dick size all over again.

They aren't really serious about changing the world. Ponzi crash be damned, NWO be damned, as long as their dick is longer than your dick.

They sugar coat their dick-envy with "lying to themselves" proclamations about how they will cure cancer with their gains, etc..

Not very evolved from gorillas yet are we.

There is a really funny real-life video I captured of these BitCONers:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/16/the-fairness-study/

nah, its the non-bitcoiners that are mad as hell they missed the boat, and now trying to reinvent the light bulb. guess what, get out there and find a job, as that ship has sailed

You missed the video of yourself.

You think the ship has sailed because you are not a programmer of 30 years with million user hits as I have. I had more downloads in 2 years than BitCON has in 4 years. And that was 13 years ago when the internet was 10X smaller.

I am going to destroy BitCON (there is no light, it is fatally doomed as it lacks distribution) and you will buy from me.

Distribution is the key.

I am enjoying taunting you (and any other clueless neophyte billionaire such as Roger Mellon if he thinks his money can trump my algorithm).

eMunie seems great and much better than bitcoin but I personally won't invest in a coin where nobody can see the source code and know if decentralization, security and privacy are respected. It's a high-risk for investors if security vulnerabilities are found later. Anyway I hope the dev will change his mind.

yup, much better to stay away from stuff like that. like i said, btc is one of a kind. end of story.

*** Quote archived for future entertainment purposes. ***

Sorry to burst your ego, but your not the first one to make that claim.
Hint; think Solidcoin.  :D

Guys , I kinda feel like you are ganging up on me here ?

I know this game isnt over , I was just asking a question , are we not all working towards the same general end point ?

Lets be more friendly towards me.

Anony Anony Anony , why all this belligerence ? 

Im not bagging I was asking did he get out at 150 $ and is he angry about that ? Thats all ?

If you have a design id love to see it , I know you are a guy with some talent .

* thanks for the correct spelling

: D

hes an uber programmer with gazillion hits in mozilla netscape time, and he had to cash out at 150$...business must be slow :D

I just wanted to quote this from the first page. I stopped reading from there because this above perfectly explains why cryptocurrency (most probably bitcoin) will take over the world.

Really? because the impression I got in this thread was some guy writing in a childish attacking way going on about how useless Bitcoins are and there's this wonder replacement currency thats going to destroy it, whilst making lots of additional posts insulting people, ie the reverse of what you just wrote.

Maybe Johny is right, maybe eMunie or some variant will take over as the primary cryptocurrency of the world!, but right now that is pure speculation, and if he was mature enough he'd realise that and not post in such a way as to embarrass himself coming across like a 12 year old, in that respect he does himself no favours.  Seems mature discussions are a rarity on this board.

As of right now this is what we know, Bitcoin is proven, its already widely used around the world way more than any other crypto currency, its not without its flaws (transaction times aren't always the most stable), but we know it works and is pretty damn solid.
eMunie, well its still in the alpha stage imho, its very unproven and far to early stages to really form an opinion on.

Only time will tell if Bitcoin rules surpeme, it has the edge in acceptance and the mainstream media spreading the word about.  VHS beat Betamax after all and VHS was the inferior product.  Anybody right now who claims to know absolutely for sure if Bitcoin will win, fail, or maintain its own niche market is doing nothing more than guessing, because no-one knows, its still far too early to say.

Way I look at it, even if something like eMunie turned out to be rock solid and accepted as the new standard, people will still use Bitcoins and hold value in them for private person to person transactions around the world for very low fees. I don't see it as a threat, and welcome advances, as well as any advances to the Bitcoin code to further improve that too.

Have to love the mods on this forum, they allow rampant scams yet they move this thread which is a general discussion about bitcoin failing because people started to talk about alt coims lol.

Also, another reason why emunie or other alt coins will destroy bitcoin is they dont require thousands of dollars for asics and cpus. eMunie's most important hardware requirement is fast hard drives. You can basically run a system that will last you a few years with your old desktop on top of that you're only wasting like 70watts at the wall.

If it lives up to all hits hype, then great, something that offers lighting fast transactions, is completely secure and uses far less power in the long term would be wonderful. But it has a looong long way to go judging by its forum, some rather critical security issues to overcome too:

http://forum.emunie.com/index.php/topic/344-wallet-manipulation/

So, It's closed source. The white paper was already "coming soon" in June. Explanations of how e.g. distribution or verifier trust works on the forum are both complex and hand-wavy at the same time. Some examples of that:

Now, I'm sure you can find similarly vague posts about bitcoin on this forum. The difference is that intelligent people did not get enthusiastic about Bitcoin because of those messages, but because of A) Satoshis easy to understand yet complete whitepaper and possibly B) by looking at the source code.

So I'm curious, how exactly did you decide emunie is the real deal?

By having general trust in a real person, not Satoshi an anonymous enigma. A year or so later when it's open source you can go and read the code. I'm not excited about vague or overly technical infomration, what I'm excited about is instant transaction, messaging, exchange, no expensive hardware, no 51% attack, and all the other massive features.

I am okay with skepticism. I was trying to explain why you all felt it necessary to taunt him about your superior profits. Yeah his technical arguments were flawed and he is novice, but he is just expressing an opinion. You can argue facts without the whipping out the dick measuring tape.

That is why I taunted you so you would know how unproductive, mindless, and childish that tit-for-tat is.

What is amazing (well not) is how bitCONers will put themselves in prison just because the better altcoin hasn't arrived yet.

But exponential ponzi gains driving dopamine spikes atrophies the brain, so it is easy to understand their lack of research and self-discipline.

In any case, we will all be happier (in a long-term stable way) and better off once that altcoin comes. And it won't be very long from now, probably before Xmas.

Because Fanboys have shatterable egos, ask all the Apple fanboys. They get massive butthurt when you speak against their "precious" and as a typical blind fanboy instead of coming up with proper arguments, they go for attacks on the individual, as doing so makes the words written less true in their brains infected with butthurt lol.

Please feel free to fill-out the butthurt form and submit:

 http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/butt-hurt-report.jpg

Right. I saw that on the forums, people seem to trust the word of this developer without any external confirmation... RealSolid and solidcoin come to mind.

Sure, those sound interesting. It's just that it's harder to actually implement them than it is to claim to have implemented them. With this sort of info I would personally _never_ invest money or or time on something like this but I wish you guys all the best.

So your new altcoin is going to be centralised then?

You don't need to invest any money, have an old desktop computer that you use? Laptop? Just run the client and make some coin. End of the day if it turns out it's a horrendous scam/fail, didn't lose much besides some electricity.

Overview for the impatient:

• website links all broken
• no client available for download
• vague tech with no verification due to closed-source
• aggressive, childish boosters attempting to build buzz
• stupid name

Sounds great, where do I send my money?  ;D

Real overview for the impatient:

None of the above points matter because

1. Client is more important than a website for un-released software
2. Client is still in development
3. Tech talk is vague because its been an evolution, I invited anyone to ask questions only a week ago, no one bothered
4. You think these guys are aggressive?  Wait until I get started with the real campaign
5. Opinions matter, most vary, some count, yours doesn't.

You are riding a train that is coming to the end of the line....yes I know there have been claims of grandeur before and most don't deliver.  I do...ALWAYS,   Whether you use eMunie or not is up to you, but please don't insult me by judging the pie before you've tasted it.

The thread wasn't even about eMunie, until people kept asking about an example of a coin. That's cute you making general statements without knowing anything.
Website Links all broken no client download?!! Really??!! Why would there be a client download if it's in beta not ready? If you want a beta download feel free to join the forum and become a beta tester.

Sounds like a troll lol

Rebuttal for the simple minded:

1. wa wa wa
2. If you are in the beta program than you can download a beta client
3. I guess you will have to wait til launch
4. Shill thank you
5. You are ugly and smell funny


@nanonano delays delays delays... shit was supposed to be launched by now BUT the dev has changed the guts at least twice in as many months. Things are starting to come together though so hopefully some of your concerns will be touched on. (assuming you actually give two shits)

Now I can't find who was asking ut the system requirements to 'mine' with eMunie is as low as a raspberry fucking pi.

Sorry, but no thanks. There are enough warning signs here that I'm not running a binary like that without setting up a VM... and that would be much more work than I could see myself putting into this. All the power to you if you make a fortune out of it, but my common sense is saying "keep your distance".

I run it on a desktop that does nothing besides going to run emunie. You don't need to run it on a computer where you have personal stuff or important stuff. I understand what you are saying but that's not common sense. Missing out on a crypto currency that might be the future over something silly as setting up a VM or running on a computer with no important information?

Release the whitepaper, codebase, and client to the public, then we'll see if eMunie delivers as promised. Until then you're just another preacher working the congregation. Can I get a Hallelujah?

Whitepaper is incoming, client is more important than a paper right now.  Client will be publicly released in Jan.

As or the code, Ive explained my reason behind this many times, but I'll make it simple

You go give away a year of your life, and $80,000 with little promise of return and you've got a deal!

BRO WTFFFF ARE YOU EVEN ON???? Release something that isn't ready? WTFFF?? Can't even comprehend what goes on in your mind.

Here's an insider secret for you: software is never "ready".

I think I was pretty clear: With the evidence at hand I consider the possibility of emunie being the future of crypto currencies so unlikely that it's not worth much work or risk. Much like I don't worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, even though doing that _might_ save me from damnation if it turns out Pastafarianism truly was the one true religion.

When the details are out I'll take another look. Until then, good luck to you (and may His Noodly Appendages bless you)

But are you making the mistake of assuming the only demographic worth serving is the BitCoinTalk demographic like many others?

You are entitled to your opinion and at least unlike many you aren't being overly insulting, just keep an open mind, that is all I ask, I think you'll be surprised when the time comes.

No, but you can get a RAmen. I will come find you when that list can be satisfied.

@nanonano the great starch in the sky has vanquished all lesser gods except for Cthulu... good time to get on his good side.

Bitcoin could not have succeeded if it wasn't open source. With no central authority to lend credibility and accountability, a peer-to-peer system has to be completely open or there will always be doubt about flaws, backdoors, etc. It has to be tested from every possible angle, attacked from every side. Only then will people trust it enough to invest.

Maybe eMunie will change the world, I don't know. I'm just saying, you've got to put your work out there and let the tech community rip it apart and find the weaknesses before you start generating hype. Be like Satoshi and keep development quiet while you work out the kinks.

Lastly: the amount of time and money you've personally invested is only important to you. What you deliver is important, everything else is irrelevant. So quit tweaking the code and show us what you've got. If it's good enough for beta, it's ready for some peer review.

Could you remind me when it was that I signed a contract with you where I have to obey orders?

I'll release it when I'm damned good and ready, when *I* feel it is ready for a peer review, not when you, any eMunie supporter, or my mother demand that I do!

If that is in 2/3/4 years time then fine, it'll be how it needs to be, operate how it needs to be.

I constantly forget about all the amazing things that people around here have developed and are in global adoption stage warranting the rest of us to mere minion status.....

Do as you please, I wish you the best of luck. I'll have to settle for making fun of Crabbe and Goyle.

He decided that after buying lots of them: http://forum.emunie.com/index.php/topic/420-ann-emunie-pre-launch-sale-details-information-draft/
And probably got a beta invite to premine some too.  ;D

closed source (for all we know it could be a fancy wallet stealer or full of security holes), selling coins upfront & trying to create a big buzz -> smells like a scam

For the amount of delays we have had, you would think we would have just released after the first week, and just used bitcoins code right? I mean if we really want to scam, why waste our time delaying the release date and perfecting stuff when we would just take your money and run for the door?

People either do not understand economics very well, or they are extremely scared these days, not sure which....

Or come from a 3rd world country with extreme mal nutrition under-developed brains to even think anything logical.

Yeah lets hang around here for 6 months, and create something totally new just to scam you guys...seriously...if the goal was to scam I could of done that back in May with all the Alt Coin surge.

I guess instead of using common logic its just much easier to point fingers and form wild accusations.

You know what pisses me off the most....someone, me, is actually TRYING to create something different, doesn't matter if it succeeds or not, yet all people like you do is come out with pitchforks and burning me at the stake when really all it take is a bit of respect and a show of "I wont be participating, but good luck and points for trying!".

Is that so hard?  And while we are at it what have you ever done other than wank over a picture of your ego along with the rest of them here?

The burden of proof (that your software is not just a scam) is on you. Your assurances that it's not a scam can in no way be considered proof. Perhaps the simplest way to prove it is to release the source code (which must be buildable by those receiving it). If you can think of another way to prove it, go ahead. Until then, don't expect anyone on this forum to just blindly run your software.

I'm not asking, nor expecting anyone to do that....the reasons for closed source have been explained and I'm sticking to them, and I have no issue regarding peoples opinions not to run it etc.

I just have issue with the hostility directed towards me and what I am doing for zero reason, if you don't want to run it, fine, but don't come accusing me of being a scammer/fraudster/incapable/insert insult here.

The moral phrase of "Treat others how you yourself would like to be treated" is just lost around here.

Yeah, very cute.  ::)

They may be able to track transactions that pass through their network but that won't be all transactions.

Giving respect for someone trying to get rich on the back of others by giving them wrong information? If you wouldn't care if it succeeds or not, if you wouldn't do this just for the money, you would release the source code. Sunny also tries new things, spends a lot of his time on his coins, but he releases the source code from the beginning. The guy even refuses to accept donations, contrary to you who sells coins before the whole thing is even running.

If you would just try to make something different, you would have my respect just like I have respect for the devs that made the few legit alts out there.

I ordered some food today and paid with BTC through bitpay, luckily it didn't take 30 hours, after 30min I had my food delivered at home.
1 confirmation takes +-10min  ::)

Not everything is about money you know, I don't need to get rich from this, I have enough for my own needs, and I could quite easily go and earn 6-7 figure yearly incomes from contracting and consulting, but I chose to do this, because I believe I can do something better!

However, an endevour such as this I can not fund myself entirely...I've paid for the development, I do this 24/7 and live off money I have earned in the past, I wont be holding anywhere near the majority eMu when it is launched, infact I'll be a minor holder.

Crypto nerds are not my one and only demographic, sorry to point this out, but BCT isn't the center of the world.  There are another 7B people on this planet outside of this forum, THEY are demographic that matter for success and to grab their attention will cost a lot more than I personally have available to invest, even if I used it ALL.  If I could I'd love nothing more to self fund entirely, but I can't.

Sometimes great things need a show of faith and external support past the person attempting it, otherwise we are all stuck in the dark ages.

Of course not.

Would you run if it was Javascript + Java applet running in the browser's sandbox?

Surely you don't run every website in a VM.

Hilarious. Good one.

I hope they realized why it is the butt that hurts (as in fanboys bend over for their religion (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=337159.msg3644035#msg3644035)).

Agreed that is easy to make claims and vaporware and difficult to actually achieve in code.

But investing your spare computer to mine at launch doesn't cost you much, so it is no brainer if you have the slightest bit of confidence in the outfit.

Especially if many of the coins will be minted in the early period.

Lets hope the outfit is in it for the long-haul and will actually buy their own coins, if the FX price is too low. I plan on doing that on my coin. I will not let the price fall too low, if everyone wants to sell me all the coins at too low of prices then fine. I don't think I will be able to buy them cheaply though.

Unintentional irony from the guy who has judged the pie good before tasting it. 

Using that word "troll" lowers your credibility. Stay on point instead.

No ones tasted the pie yet, it's not finished...unless you like to take pies out the oven half baked and have a bite.

Bitcoin isn't meant to be only used by the Crypto nerds either. But to burst your bubble, you're probably stuck with us in the beginning. :P

I'll show faith in the software when it can be thoroughly inspected , not in the person who made it and can tell us anything. Avoiding dark ages through blind faith isn't the best option if you look up some history books.

I tried to study it and gave up. But I am not going to bag on it. Let them bring to market and if they write a comprehensible whitepaper, I may look again.

So are you going to release concrete information on how eMunie will be protected before you start taking money from people? Or are we going to remain at the same point we were 6 months ago with absolutely nothing? Because that would be a scam.

Only profits I have I worked for Anony, im on record here saying BTC is fantastically centralized ( for a cryptocurrency in my opinion)  , did you hear me say otherwise,  I also outlined the reasons behind that .

I always try to stay out of prisons .

Of course, which is why I haven't announced anything official yet.  Some client development has overran by a few days so that will be handled first.

Agreed, but there is no reason it must be open-source in initial launch phase, because the motivation to mine it will outweigh the concern that the source isn't release yet.

The developer has an incentive to keep it closed-source initially to prevent others from stealing his key algorithms too soon before he has established the first leader advantage (mostly in terms of mining network hashrate, or eMunie's case number of clients on the network).

IMHO, the source should be released within a month of launch.

Also holding back the source can aid in forking early on if flaws are discovered, because everyone is reliant on the developer to provide a binary.

Bitcoin was effectively closed-source in 2008 because only a few people were looking at it.

+1

Finally, thanks!

Please don't me regret writing that, and make a scam coin.

I will aggressively out any scam coin in order to keep the market open for bonafide altcoins.

Oh I am sure that is going to work well.

And so you should highlight these dis-honest alts.

I guess I shouldn't take offense so easily, and usually I don't, it's been an unusual day so apologies for my "fly off the handle" behaviors this evening...this crypto arena is RIFE with scams so a lot of default standpoints are going to be doubt.

Do you mean that the more one talks about an altcoin, the more interest it gets?

Or are you implying something negative about me?

Or both?

Or perhaps my definition of "scam" was not well defined. I don't mean I disagree with the features or design. I mean some kind of pump & dump. I also mean spreading misinformation about other coins as a marketing ploy. For example, claiming the Bitcoin never has 0-confirmation transactions. That is dishonest or naive.

I put my alleged Transactions Withholding Attack (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=336350.0) in Bitcoin to the test of all who want to try to refute me. So I can't be accused of misinformation.

P.S. the OP of this thread does not back up the sensational title of the thread. That might be one reason fanboys are justified. However, I find that even when I present them with compelling arguments on sensational claims, they indiscriminately act the same butt hurt way. I guess all of this is the way we male apes compete and get things done?

Maybe fanboys have a built-in BS meter and it is permanently pegged at 100% because they've seen too much BS in the altcoins, bitcoin allegations, etc. I could understand that actually.

Neither, I meant sarcastically exactly what I said. :P

Oh then same to you  :P

I loves ya Atlast  :-*

So true.

I just saw the following on this forum and the irony of it caused me burst out in laughter with BTC at $600 - $900:

I guess the technologically advanced people on this forum, haven't heard of virus scanners lol, or real time virus protection even on running programs.

Yeah well I guess your the minority as billions of people show faith in Microsoft, & Apple, and every other closed source software in the world.

What a reasonable human being does.

I see a big opportunity for various kind of coin mixing service

Question about emunie


I have a question about the demand based supply, as I'm sure other potential investors do too. If the point of the demand based supply is supposed to keep the price stable and avoid minimal fluctuations (correct?) what do I stand to gain from taking a big risk and investing my money by buying the currency? If the price is designed to remain stable how do I justify the lack of big potential payoff for the risk of investing?

As we all know in the early stages for a crypto currency actual usage for products and services is extremely limited and adopters are mostly drawn in by the investment potential. Once enough investors have been drawn in the coin gains critical mass and then there's enough people holding the coin to make it worthwhile for services to accept payment for it etc. This is what happened with Bitcoin and is happening with Litecoin.

Interested to hear your thoughts on this. My take on it is that you should not introduce a system to stabilise the price until after the coin has been very well distributed amongst adopters... Or perhaps incrementally increase the strength of the stablisation process... so the effect doubles in strength every interval.

(repeating this because I think you missed it in the other thread. Cheers)

It's fine if you don't understand the risks of running unknown binaries without sandboxing, or the scope of virus scanning: they are not things everyone needs to know. But when you are in that position please don't just make things up, that's just irresponsible.

Bump. Is Bitcoin a scam (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=341594.0)?

@op

i agree

Not that you don't have some good points in here, but the sarcasm makes it hard to digest.

Ive always said that basically , but hey ...

Take it from someone that used to run a store that accepted a lot of credit card transactions. Even though BitCoin is a bit slow to hit 6 confirmations, as a merchant (not an average user) you still get your money way faster than you do if someone is paying with a credit or debit card. A normal merchant has to wait 24-48 hours depending on the time of day they batch out their credit card terminals before their merchant service provider will ACH them that money and it lands in their account. If you're doing online sales then chances are you're going to loose 2-3% of that transaction to the credit card company as well.

I'd rather accept BitCoin or another alt-coin any day of the week.

The definition ( im sure you understand ) of a Ponzi scheme is to pay existing  term deposits with new investors .

So no it does not fit the bill .

Plus I have tried to explain the other information vectors  but it seems to get lost a lot in translation,  so instead perhaps maybe we will see these things happening in the future .

I can agree to this to an extent, however, I do not see it simply crashing and burning. I see it sitting at a steady price once the government is able to control it, and that 'steady price' won't be very expensive.