Bitcoin Forum

Someone messaged me about BlackArrow:

Have a look at these 2 Pages:
https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/about-us-en.html (https://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/about-us-en.html)
https://www.cardreaderfactory.com/about-us.html (https://www.cardreaderfactory.com/about-us.html)
Same-Same isn't it?
And then read this:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Card-Reader-Factory/internet/Card-Reader-Factory-cardreaderfactory-cardreaderfactorycom-crs-known-scam-and-snitch-I-1070440 (http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Card-Reader-Factory/internet/Card-Reader-Factory-cardreaderfactory-cardreaderfactorycom-crs-known-scam-and-snitch-I-1070440)


Is it definitively a scam or not?
Should I remove them from https://coinplorer.com/Hardware (https://coinplorer.com/Hardware) or flag them as scam?

Hope not since I just ordered an x-1.

Didn't blackarrow deliver bitfury asics and before that avalons and before that fpgas? That is just what I have found with minimal research.

In looking at those pages, there are some similarities for sure, but I'd bet it's because they use the same CMS. If you view the page source you can see the exact same error strings, code structure and so forth. However, I'd guess this is most likely due to CMS than same company.

I'd say the main factor against this being a scam is that Bobsag3 went there and met the guys running Black Arrow. There are pics and video of loads of BitFury boards and at least one prototype of the Prospero (I think).

Also it looks like the scam cardreader company was in Romania, so doesn't really fit with this Chinese company.

Last, as jimmothy says, they seem to have shipped product. I'd guess (hope!) it's just the CMS.

yeah it's the same theme, that's all.

Notice their respective GA UA's are different - would probably be the same account if it was the same entity.


And besides, I've also got an order in :)

Damn, I'll keep them in the comparison I guess.
Their prices always change, they must be indexed on something (yuan ?)

if what you said is true, it will be the biggest scam in the bitcoin history. I believe there were tonnes of blackarrow pre-order already. they would have pocketed tonnes of money.

Having said that, I was wondering why their batch 1 hasn't close yet.. now this is getting fishy. I really hope they are not scam because I too had invested in them.

i wanted to buy into their cloudmining,

but lately i've been getting my ass handed to me while trading.

so i'll wait. hesitate. 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIsUJo-sGwE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ybLGF1AkY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjs9KjAaRew



So....I think no. Maybe a scammer copy their About us.

They are legit.  I have met them. I have bought stuff from them. They are a professional operation. The customer support team have been swamped with support tickets, that's all.  Looking forward to my Bitfurys & X3

video only show the production line. could be taken from anywhere. doesn't show the real prospero.

Agree that video could be any asic manfacturing plant,no proof at all

Agree that video could be any asic manufacturing plant,no proof at all
[/quote]

Yes I agree, 100% a scam, suggest you do NOT buy
/sarcasm

Now with all the unsold units they will drop the price and I can buy even more than I already have.

Yes I agree, 100% a scam, suggest you do NOT buy
/sarcasm

Now with all the unsold units they will drop the price and I can buy even more than I already have.
[/quote]

LOL , BlackArrow and Alex are legit .... gotta have some patience in this game.
Unless you want to buy some BF boards right now ( i have plenty , that I'd gladly sell , only to give BA more money for new stuff ;) )

at least from the video we can see BA logo on the bitfury board  :)

myself and another known party has been to the Factory and Hosting Facilities. -- but if you want product now , 1 Board of BF on BlackArrow boards will cost 1k range. Thats some 40 GH/s. Could be had easily. hundreds of them could be. people have working boards.

No NO.....HUGE SCAM!!  ALERT ALERT!!!

DO NOT BUY!!!

They will not deliver, EVER!!!   8)

so, typing random info on some forum...how useful is this? Really, think about it?

I rely on the guys who have been to their facilities and talked to them (posted pics etc).

If you need more proof than this than you are..well, gay. You put the 'g' in gay.

It is as simple as that. You are gay and you love the cock and should not involve yourself with bitcock.

http://www.scamvoid.com/check/blackarrowsoftware.com
A chinese company that host's their site in Germany  :-\ Strange!

and here's the link between blackarrowsoftware and cardreaderfactory
http://www.diytrade.com/china/manufacturer/2014095/pl/0713-t-c/Software.html

and another one:
https://www.cardreaderfactory.com/ (News entry as of 14-Oct-13)

I.M.H.O. definitifely SCAM!

This is true but both cardreaderfactory and blackarrow have built amd sold fpgas, avalon asics and bitfury asics

Ack, a Jr. member with 3 activity has told us it's a scam, we all must flee and scream in terror! Oh the horror! THE HORRRRRRORRRR!!!....

Don't listen to the Trolls.  Black Arrows FPGAs were sold through CardReaderFactory. So this is not news.
They also have links to Europe, so hosting in Germany is not exactly anything to worry about.

insert clapping emoticon  'clapicon'?

hi,

i *wanted* to buy, ordered with payment by bitcoin, then got after ~12 hour an email with the Bitcoin amount to submit the payment to within a 24hour frame. However i got online 25hour after this, so i missed the deadline - since then 9 days have passed and i have no reply from them.

This makes me at least believe that there is a certain risk involved.

So why are the UK and US numbers the same? Everything about the site and prices does seem a bit off.

Hmm I was about to unload all my bitcoins on them until I saw this thread hahaha. Well they do have one of the best bang for buck asics out there. If you found better ones, do let me know lol.

However, I personally don't think that they're a scam, if you take a look at the 2nd vid posted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9ybLGF1AkY

you can see a one of their staff is inspecting for flaws on the hardware made, and she certainly does look Chinese to me. And them being located at China, that tallies up.

You could order from Butterfly labs, but my goodness, anyone who has ordered stuff from them will know, exactly how longgggggggg we had to wait lol. But the good thing about them is, they eventually deliver, so if blackarrow proves to be a scam, which i doubt so, then I just might have to settle with a monarch card.

10/10 investigation work

The only reason I decided to give them a chance is because they (according to others) have delivered and even on time.

Yeah I wouldn't decide if a company is a scam or not based on a video made by the company in question. You never know they could be faking it. Also, there pricing does seem a little bit low which makes me wonder if this qualifies as a "too good to be true deal". They have proven track record of delivering somebody else items but to my knowledge they have never made an asic completely from scratch. I guess that all we can do right now is gather more evidence and wait for testing, prototypes etc

Black Arrow is based in china and do all there assembly there in there own plant. Thay are legit as we the WPC have done face to face business with them. We should be receiving there Minion chips soon.  For our Minion Wasp Prototype  

Want to buy the x-3. Lot's of cash to loose, even though I don't think they're a scam I which there was a way to find out for sure.

That is some really poor English.
You can always wait it out and see if they're legit or not?

Always remember to only invest what you can afford to lose.

Black Arrow Software used to sell their equipment through the Card Reader Factory website. So the two companies were (and probably still are) essentially the same company.

I've purchased about 10 FPGA units from them in the past (as have many others) and everything was very smooth. I had a unit that eventually broke and they wanted me to send it back for a replacement. I never did because by that time the FPGA's were essentially useless for Bitcoin but they at least offered which is more then most companies now a days.

The new box may not be a reality ever, but at least based on their track history they are a legitimate company and not just scammers.

True, but also: never support scammers. I actually plan to go to China in a couple of month maybe I'll can visit them.

They also accept wire transfers for payment which makes them seem more legit.  Most scammers tend to only accept BTC since it's easier to disappear with the cash.  BA also allows customers to wire funds to their HSBC bank account in China.  There's still the possibility of them disappearing or going bankrupt, but having that bank account makes them more trackable.

from my experience on just-in-time delivered fpga´s (17x) back in may,  can say: they re legit and no scam !!! ofcourse, an asic rig with 2,5 TH is more difficult to be (developed&) built than a fpga unit with 398 MH, but also i know blackarrow is a skilled engineer and hes not alone to do the whole work. i strongly believe they can make it, even in time ... ordered 2 x-3´s from 1st batch and have absolutely no doubts about not getting them and get skinned.

this thread was absolutely not needed ! cheers

Agreed. Its always a risk of some sort, even a KNC order at this point but I put my money where my mouth is and I also have an X3 (first batch) on order.

The way I see it is you can either pre-order and maybe get a really good deal or maybe a shitty deal with a ton of delays, or you can buy someones asic in hand for 3 times what they paid for it (also they probably used it to mine and the first week or two is the most profitable for any asic.

Risk vs reward.

The guys from BlackArrow and CardReaderFactory are probably not scammers, but I question their ethics, as CardReaderFactory sells the "world's smallest bluetooth magnetic stripe readers" - have a look at product MSRv008.  I'm not sure why else someone would drop $2000 on this device other than to build an ATM skimming device.

They may not be scammers, but they like to sell parts to the scammers  :)

Interesting. Is it possible that it could be used
 for some sort of mobile card reader?

Sure, you could build whatever you want, but you could always just buy something like an IDTech which plugs into your phone or iPad and only costs $50.  Or get the Square device https://squareup.com/ (https://squareup.com/) which is free, but you have to use their service.

Bluetooth.  Battery-powered.  Super-thin.  Hmm, sounds like an Apple product :)

haha, yesterday and today i got 4 emails from blackarrow that "Order #... has been placed successfully. Well i did not do anything....
They all have the same order # from an old order i once placed in December, but despite an inquiry at Blackarrow they never sent me a single reply. And now i'm getting automated mails about it being newly created.

haha. I don't even believe they are humans. Probably just a piece of code working on some server and getting programmed by some - by now - rich guy.

In December, I was sooo close, but now i'm so happy i didn't send the money. Now there is no way i am going to ever submit any money to Blackarrow.

There's lots of people in the Bitcoin industry with a shady pasts, even BFL's Sonny did time, so I wouldn't worry about that.

My thinking is they'll deliver, but deliver last, as they started development later than everyone else on the 28nm node.
That's why their price of $3/GH is the lowest out there to reflect this.

Source?

Afaik we don't have much info about the development process besides that they still plan to ship on time.

Blackarrow has shady past? - wtf....

are you just writing this, or you have some source ???
I asume you're not refering to my post, as i regard a few day old mails or an ~1 1/2 months old order not really ignorable "past".

They sold miners through card read factory many moons ago. What do you think "smallest portable magnetic stripe card readers in the world" are used for? Many people on these forums have bought their miners and we've had photos from inside their factory, saw their FPGA to ASIC development hardware, if it's a scam, they went to a lot of trouble to hire a factory and fill it with mining hardware.  ;)

Of course they could fail. Building a board and putting someone else's chip on it it easier than building your own ASIC from scratch. We saw that happen to bASIC, they delivered FPGAs, but later failed to deliver on a subsequent ASIC project.

Many in the community thought Butterfly Labs would be a scam, but they delivered (eventually), on their promises.

If you don't want to risk money in a pre-order buy a 28nm miner from Technobit with PayPal, but even he gets scammer accusations!

It's just the nature of the Bitcoin market... More risk, more reward!


Photos of Flappysocks previous order with Black Arrow.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg3866034#msg3866034

Photos from inside Black Arrows factory in China.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg3884729#msg3884729

Photo of Black Arrows 22nm FPGA to ASIC development board.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=294197.msg3893629#msg3893629

"Re: Butterfly Labs CEO 25 Million USD Mail Fraud — A Concise Summary of Evidence"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.0

"TOWN HALL (prep) Meeting: Butterfly Labs"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110786.0

"The "What Black Arrow does not want you to know" thread"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=313049.0

"Black Arrow Software real or fake?"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=365535.0

"Blackarrow Software Legit or Scam?"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339163.0

"Re: "BlackArrow" ASIC's, Trustable?"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=316214.0

Thanks for the great list of sources. I agree that this does look like bfl but from what I've read BA has a much better track record of shipping on time. I'm hoping for less than 1 month delay. Or at least before asicminer gen3 chips go up for sale.