Bitcoin Forum

Other => Off-topic => Topic started by: Graet on August 19, 2011, 02:05:40 AM



Title: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Graet on August 19, 2011, 02:05:40 AM
I must start by saying i respect luke-jr for his input to BTC and coding skills.
But I am uncomfortable with this happening.

<luke-jr> cosurgi: by design, it contains "random" data-- I've just been setting some of that "random" data to prayers

<Graet> mm interesting luke-jr i understand you are strong in your faith but you dont think putting prayers in might alienate some ppl - after all btc is multidenominational
<luke-jr> Graet: Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.
<Graet> and you make your non catholic miners aware of this?

no response to that last question.

this was brought to light after a corrupted TXN containing
 "LUKE-JR IS A PEDOPHILE! Oh, and god isn't real, sucka. Stop polluting the blockchain with your nonsense."

I do not think it is appropriate in this multicultural multi denominational thing we call Bitcoin.
Even for those that think prayers in blockheadrers is a good idea, what are your thoughts on the response so far and do you think it will improve or just get much worse?

I can just see stupid header wars that will hurt Bitcoin.

Discuss


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 19, 2011, 02:33:13 AM
But I am uncomfortable with this happening.
Honestly, I expected better from you. This is a terrible way to try to win people to your pool.


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Graet on August 19, 2011, 02:43:52 AM
But I am uncomfortable with this happening.
Honestly, I expected better from you. This is a terrible way to try to win people to your pool.
ROFL [edit] i wouldnt expext SMPPS miners to move to my prop pool
It has nothing to do with winning people. It is about pool owners disclosing to thier members what they are actually doing.
If your members are all comfortable with what you are doing - thats fine. But have you asked or informed them?

But
To me it is a very real concern that messages like the TXN aimed at you will proliferate and detract from the great thing that Bitcoin can potentially be.
Do you honestly think TXN s including PEDOPHILE accusations is a good thing for bitcoin going forward? (i am not accusing you just using the message aimed at you as an example) and it wont stop there.

I would like to see Bitcoin become more mainstream. header/txn wars arent going to help Bitcoin succeed among mainstream public.



Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: strictlyfocused on August 19, 2011, 02:56:44 AM
lol @ people letting religion affect them. Religious folk are a dying breed so heres what I say.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5224/5701930741_f368c6d3c2.jpg

As long as his blocks are worth money I dont care if hes putting CP in them ...


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Clipse on August 19, 2011, 08:07:20 AM
Amusing stance from luke about, "catholics do not believe in freedom of religion"

Hahaha wow thats bad-ass!


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Jack of Diamonds on August 19, 2011, 10:53:25 AM
<luke-jr> Graet: Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.

wow


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Graet on August 19, 2011, 12:01:18 PM
Well after asking the same question in #bitcoin-dev (logged irc chan) #bitcoin and this forum luke-jr has not given an answer to the simple (yes or no) question "and you make your non catholic miners aware of this?"
If at any stage he had answered this I would have been happy and stopped.

He seems to be trying to divert attention with an accustaion that this is about raising my pool numbers. LOL


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: captainteemo on August 19, 2011, 12:11:42 PM
Well after asking the same question in #bitcoin-dev (logged irc chan) #bitcoin and this forum luke-jr has not given an answer to the simple (yes or no) question "and you make your non catholic miners aware of this?"
If at any stage he had answered this I would have been happy and stopped.

He seems to be trying to divert attention with an accustaion that this is about raising my pool numbers. LOL
It's random data, it could randomly be that. Why care?


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Graet on August 19, 2011, 12:34:10 PM
1. Well members of other religions mining or Eligius might like to be aware.<- are they? Everyone seems to be avoiding answering that...makes me believe they have not been informed.
2. The txn in response wasnt good.
3. If it is deliberately put there it is not "random" - even if the data being replaced means nothing.
4. I care about bitcoin and it's future, Bitcoin is under close scrutiny from corporations, lawyers and other members of the general public - does anyone honestly believe that  
 "LUKE-JR IS A PEDOPHILE! Oh, and god isn't real, sucka. Stop polluting the blockchain with your nonsense." and similar will not be noticed? Do you think this sort of thing will encourage uptake of Bitcoin or be a barrier to its adoption by many people?

If Bitcoin wants to be real and play with the big boys it needs to address this issue.




Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: SteveFL on August 19, 2011, 12:35:37 PM
I mine for Eligius.  I get BTC for submitting shares.  Is there any reason to put any more thought or effort into such a simplistic process?

I could care less what may or may not be in the block headers.  I would say if prayers bother someone they need to work on fixing their own state of mind rather than try an encourage others to agree that this is even a real issue.



Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: bitclown on August 19, 2011, 12:58:18 PM
I mine for Eligius as well and prayers have as much meaning to me as random data. If this keeps luke-jr working on Bitcoin projects I'm all for it. No-one can enforce political correctness in the block chain anyway.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: davout on August 19, 2011, 01:14:31 PM
Stop polluting the blockchain with your nonsense
Stop polluting the forums with your nonsense. Nobody cares.

Quit being such an anal whiner and get busy doing stuff that actually matters to the community, you know, just like luke-jr.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Chris Acheson on August 19, 2011, 01:33:11 PM
The prayers are a stupid gimmick that don't affect much.  They do kind of mess up Dan Kaminsky's cool hack, which is sad but probably inevitable.

That said, I'm surprised that people aren't more concerned about Luke-jr in general.  The guy is a shady christian fascist that shouldn't be trusted to run a hot dog stand, let alone run a semi-popular mining pool and contribute code to the Bitcoin client.

IRC logs where he expounds on his politics make for some fun reading:

http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/logs/2011/02/03/12
http://eligius.searchonirc.com/?d=2011-07-05-23

It's kind of odd that the overwhelmingly libertarian Bitcoin community puts up with him at all.  I guess the overall level of crazy around here is high enough that he just blends in.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: jackjack on August 19, 2011, 01:39:00 PM
Looks like I'm going to be bashed but I agree with Graet
Seriously what's the need? The only thing it can do is making other catholic flavour/muslim/jews/aliens say "hey there are christian prayers in the blockchain wtf I can't use that"


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: strictlyfocused on August 19, 2011, 01:39:39 PM
I mine for Eligius.  I get BTC for submitting shares.  Is there any reason to put any more thought or effort into such a simplistic process?

I could care less what may or may not be in the block headers.  I would say if prayers bother someone they need to work on fixing their own state of mind rather than try an encourage others to agree that this is even a real issue.



well said  ;D


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: gentakin on August 19, 2011, 01:52:46 PM
Looks like I'm going to be bashed but I agree with Graet
Seriously what's the need? The only thing it can do is making other catholic flavour/muslim/jews/aliens say "hey there are christian prayers in the blockchain wtf I can't use that"

If they do, then they don't believe in freedom of religion as well. I couldn't care less if they stayed away from bitcoin. They can put their own prayers into the blockchain if they feel like it.

I personally don't have a problem with people believing in god or even putting prayers into places where I won't ever find them, even if I'd help doing so by mining at eligius. It *does* bother me what Luke-Jr said about freedom of religion, but maybe I'm just interpreting that wrong.

It's a fact that Luke-Jr's contributions, innovations and Eligius are a win for the bitcoin community. If I'm getting it right that Luke is against letting people believe in whatever they feel like, however, I'm disappointed.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Vladimir on August 19, 2011, 01:55:53 PM
This all is none of my business, but I do not like when all this religious crap is being pushed into my face and luke-jr's consistent arrogance and complete disregard to anyone but himself does not inspire any sympathy.




Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Chris Acheson on August 19, 2011, 02:01:02 PM
It *does* bother me what Luke-Jr said about freedom of religion, but maybe I'm just interpreting that wrong.

No, it should pretty much be taken at face value.  Here's some more: (http://eligius.searchonirc.com/?d=2011-07-05-23)

Quote
luke-jr   :   (23:58)       MSSmallBiz: there is no such thing as a non-Catholic Christian by definition
Yeti   :   (23:58)       luke-jr: close to a billion people disagree with you on that
luke-jr   :   (23:59)       Yeti: irrelevant
luke-jr   :   (23:59)       truth is not a democracy either
MSSmallBiz   :   (23:59)       luke-jr: then what do you call Baptist, just Baptist? A Episcopalian is ?
luke-jr   :   (23:59)       MSSmallBiz: heretics


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Raoul Duke on August 19, 2011, 02:02:53 PM
It matters to me that my HDD's that hold the blockchain are getting even more cluttered with stupid religious shit.  Like transactions aren't enough...


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: gentakin on August 19, 2011, 02:37:02 PM
luke-jr   :   (23:59)       MSSmallBiz: heretics

Wow, that's where I'd probably stop mining at eligius if I had my miner there. WTF. ???


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Reuef on August 19, 2011, 02:42:05 PM
Most religions believes that it is the one true faith, that is the way it is.   I believe mine is, and no, I will not tell you what it is.  I do not believe in pushing my religious views on others, religion is a private thing and in my opinion is that it should remain as such.

Does it really matter if he or anyone else inserts something in his headers?  Only if he is inserting illegal content, which I would have a legal obligation* to report, otherwise it does not affect me.  It is as if I am told that someone is sprinkling magic pixie dust on his servers to make them have good luck, it affects me in no way, but if it makes him feel better, more power to him.


These are all my opinions, and opinions are like assholes every has got one.


*I term illegal content as either Child Porn or plans to harm others.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: 3phase on August 19, 2011, 03:05:41 PM
Well, I've been mining on Eligius for the best PPS price around and never bothered about the founder's religious beliefs.

What Luke-Jr or anybody believes about other religions does not change my religious views, or others' for that sake. I'm free to think as I wish, he's free too. Anybody claiming that I am a heretic because I don't believe in [fill in your God's version] does not make me one.

<joking>

BTW, now I realize why I have a higher number of stales on Eligius with my Christian Orthodox GPU's. It's the "Filioque" addition to the Creed  that's making me waste a few more KH/s instead of calculating solutions. Maybe mining software developers should take this into account.

</joking>

<not joking>

WHOAAAH, my miners were just disconnected from Eligius as I was writing this !!!! Holy shit, this thing is giving me the creeps !!!

Connected again after 1 min.

</not joking>


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: teukon on August 19, 2011, 03:25:18 PM
Let religious types worry about religious content, legal types worry about illegal content, and copyright types worry about infringing content.  It is possible but you would be doing well indeed to construct a sequence of 0's and 1's that would phase me.

Although I would personally make a special effort to avoid people like luke-jr, there are far worse people in the world.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: John (John K.) on August 19, 2011, 03:35:34 PM
luke-jr   :   (23:59)       MSSmallBiz: heretics


I personally do believe in the freedom of religion but this is kind of over the limit. Like where religious fanatics start to bomb/harm people when they do not share the same faith.

edit: IMO this would start to be a header war if bitcoin gets bigger


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Clipse on August 19, 2011, 08:30:31 PM
Luke seems more like the Reborn Christian type than catholic type ;)


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: enquirer on August 20, 2011, 03:56:24 AM
Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar !

All infidels will go to hell


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Jack of Diamonds on August 20, 2011, 11:51:58 AM
Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar !

All infidels will go to hell

Say you have a hindu and a muslim in the same restaurant.
The hindu is eating roast bacon and the muslim is eating a beef steak.

Who is the most enraged one? Who wins in a fight?
--

Also, say you have two kids in the same kindergarden.
In comes Michael Jackson and and a catholic priest.

Who gets to decide.. Ok let's stop here


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Keninishna on August 20, 2011, 12:04:51 PM
If it bothers you than don't use his pool. For fuck sake its named st eligius after the patron saint of goldsmiths. I am catholic as well and as far as I know other religions are recognized. I went to catholic school for 12 years. This thread is retarded, hey guys I'm going to pray for all of you, and if you don't like it well fuck you, your going to heaven anyways. :P


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Raoul Duke on August 20, 2011, 12:10:57 PM
If it bothers you than don't use his pool. For fuck sake its named st eligius after the patron saint of goldsmiths. I am catholic as well and as far as I know other religions are recognized. I went to catholic school for 12 years. This thread is retarded, hey guys I'm going to pray for all of you, and if you don't like it well fuck you, your going to heaven anyways. :P

No dude, this thread isn't retarded at all.

Some time ago, someone started a thread asking why weren't we allowed to include messages in transactions sent to bitcoin addresses(you can when you send to the IP) and everyone started saying it was a waste of resources, because the blockchain would get bigger and bigger because of said messages.

Now comes a religious fanatic moron and starts including prayers in the blockchain. What a waste of resources is that?

I could care less for his beliefs, but c'mmon... If he can clutter the blockchain with his crappy prayers I want to be able to message people to which i send payments to and be able to receive messages from people who send me payments.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Keninishna on August 20, 2011, 12:21:55 PM
Its random data if anything the prayers make the block chain more compressible.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: bcforum on August 20, 2011, 12:59:52 PM
Its random data if anything the prayers make the block chain more compressible.

Putting aside the content discussion, I propose that all messages in the block chain are graffiti and we should (as a community)  work to clean it up. If someone were to embed child pornography in the block chain, and a week later publish instructions on how to access it we would ALL be guilty of possession.


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: CRYPT on August 20, 2011, 01:03:19 PM
<luke-jr> Graet: Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.

wow


Jack,

If that's a real wallet, I'll donate, just for your creativity...

Is it real?


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: deepceleron on August 20, 2011, 02:02:28 PM
<luke-jr> Graet: Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.

wow

Every religion demands absolute belief that their dogma is the correct one, and punishes doubt. Allowing doubt opens the gateway to thoughtful analysis and logic. Analysis such as "if I was born in a different country with different parents and a different color skin, would I believe just as deeply in the religion I was taught there since my birth?"


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Graet on August 20, 2011, 02:11:43 PM
Good to see some people agree with and understand my point :)
Sad to se some ppl dont care about btc's future, just thier own earnings - only to be expected tho ;)
thanks for the discussion ppl :)


From the responses i have had in irc i dont think luke-jr even read my post before he left his post :S


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Raoul Duke on August 20, 2011, 02:27:23 PM
luke-jr is doing witchcraft with the blockchain.
We should burn him 'cause that's the catholic way of doing dealing with witchs lol


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: AnnihilaT on August 20, 2011, 07:26:10 PM
where's the popcorn when you need it :D :D


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Palmdetroit on August 20, 2011, 07:36:06 PM
I was gonna input on this thread, then remembered the world's real problems like all the banks in the world collapsing, USD & Euro being printed to below toilet paper, and the likely collapse of all fiat civilization...er what was I saying  ::)


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Sukrim on August 20, 2011, 10:46:10 PM
Back to the more real issue:
Can we have links to a few blocks of Eligius to see this ourselves?
Also: Could this impact security of the blockchain somehow? If it is supposed to be random data there (whereever these prayers are) but this data isn't as random as it could be, this might not be "a good thing (TM)".

I don't care for the personal beliefs of someone else whom I never even met. He might also just be trolling all of you (there is for example a whole german forum + dozens (!) of websites set up specifically just to make fun of religious "hardliners") and even if he isn't - just embed some lines of the Koran or whatever... there are worse options for stuff that could be embedded in the block chain, and it wouldn't even be that hard to do anonymously!

I don't like generalisations in general (;)) but some posts here are really nothing better than some (out of context) statements of Luke-Jr. Maybe take this into consideration: http://www.notquitewrong.com/rosscottinc/2011/08/03/so-youre-mad-about-something-on-the-internet/


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Chris Acheson on August 20, 2011, 11:50:19 PM
Can we have links to a few blocks of Eligius to see this ourselves?

Output of "strings -n 20 .bitcoin/blk0001.dat":

Code:
EThe Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
=ybegin line=128 siz
e=8776 name=bitcoin.
***2*.+D*/***+***h+E
*/***+***p+R*-***+*,
**+[*,***;***x******
0010/211133246>76556
C<=}9>GDIHGDFFJNXQJL
VMFFRaSVZ[^^^IQcgb\f
KFK\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
+/++++++********+,-.
DPQRST_`abcdmnopqrst
*>{o*>{o*>{o*>{o*>{o
---BEGIN TRIBUTE---
#./BitLen           
:::::::::::::::::::
:::::::.::.::.:.:::
:.: :.' ' ' ' ' : :
:.:'' ,,xiW,"4x, ''
:  ,dWWWXXXXi,4WX, 
' dWWWXXX7"     `X,
 lWWWXX7   __   _ X
:WWWXX7 ,xXX7' "^^X
lWWWX7, _.+,, _.+.,
:WWW7,. `^"-" ,^-' 
 WW",X:        X,   
 "7^^Xl.    _(_x7' 
 l ( :X:       __ _
 `. " XX  ,xxWWWWX7
  )X- "" 4X" .___. 
,W X     :Xi  _,,_ 
WW X      4XiyXWWXd
"" ,,      4XWWWWXX
, R7X,       "^447^
R, "4RXk,      _, ,
TWk  "4RXXi,   X',x
lTWk,  "4RRR7' 4 XH
:lWWWk,  ^"     `4 
::TTXWWi,_  Xll :..
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
LEN "rabbi" SASSAMA
     1980-2011     
Len was our friend.
A brilliant mind,   
a kind soul, and   
a devious schemer; 
husband to Meredith
brother to Calvin, 
son to Jim and     
Dana Hartshorn,     
coauthor and       
cofounder and       
Shmoo and so much   
more.  We dedicate 
this silly hack to 
Len, who would have
found it absolutely
hilarious.         
--Dan Kaminsky,     
Travis Goodspeed   
P.S.  My apologies,
BitCoin people.  He
also would have     
LOL'd at BitCoin's 
new dependency upon
   ASCII BERNANKE   
:'::.:::::.:::.::.:
: :.: ' ' ' ' : :':
:.:     _.__    '.:
:   _,^"   "^x,   :
'  x7'        `4,   
 XX7            4XX
 XX              XX
 Xl ,xxx,   ,xxx,XX
( ' _,+o, | ,o+,"   
 4   "-^' X "^-'" 7
 l,     ( ))     ,X
 :Xx,_ ,xXXXxx,_,XX
  4XXiX'-___-`XXXX'
   4XXi,_   _iXX7' 
  , `4XXXXXXXXX^ _,
  Xx,  ""^^^XX7,xX 
W,"4WWx,_ _,XxWWX7'
Xwi, "4WW7""4WW7',W
TXXWw, ^7 Xk 47 ,WH
:TXXXWw,_ "), ,wWT:
::TTXXWWW lXl WWT: 
----END TRIBUTE----
Eligius/Benedictus Deus. Benedictum Nomen Sanctum eius.
Eligius/Benedictus Deus. Benedictum Nomen Sanctum eius.
***************************************************
Benedictus Iesus Christus, verus Deus et verus homo.
Benedictum Nomen Iesu.
   I LIKE TURTLES   
Benedictum Cor eius sacratissimum.
Benedictus Sanguis eius pretiosissimus.
Benedictus Iesus in sanctissimo altaris Sacramento.
Benedictus Sanctus Spiritus, Paraclitus.
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Benedictus Sanctus Spiritus, Paraclitus.
Benedicta excelsa Mater Dei, Maria sanctissima.
Benedicta sancta eius et immaculata Conceptio.
Benedicta sancta eius et immaculata Conceptio.
Benedicta eius gloriosa Assumptio.
Benedictum nomen Mariae, Virginis et Matris.
Benedictum nomen Mariae, Virginis et Matris.
Benedictus sanctus Ioseph, eius castissimus Sponsus.
Benedictus Deus in Angelis suis, et in Sanctis suis. Amen.
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee and I detest all my sins...
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee and I detest all my sins...
Eye'm the strongest!
...because of Thy just punishments, but most of all because they offend Thee, ...
...my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more...
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more...
...and avoid the near occasions of sin. Amen.
O my God! I firmly believe that Thou art one God in three Divine persons, ...
O my God! I firmly believe that Thou art one God in three Divine persons, ...
...Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; I believe that Thy Divine Son became man, ...
...and died for our sins, and that he will come to, judge the living and the dead.
I believe these and all the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, ...
...because Thou hast revealed them, who canst neither deceive nor be deceived.
O my God! relying on Thy infinite goodness and promises, ...
...I hope to obtain pardon of my sins, the help of Thy grace, ...
...and life everlasting, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Redeemer.
...and life everlasting, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Redeemer.
O my God! I love Thee above all things, with my whole heart and soul, ...
...because Thou art all-good and worthy of all love.
...because Thou art all-good and worthy of all love.
Yukkuri Shiteitte ne
I love my neighbor as myself for the love of Thee.
I forgive all who have injured me, and ask pardon of all whom I have injured.
I forgive all who have injured me, and ask pardon of all whom I have injured.
I forgive all who have injured me, and ask pardon of all whom I have injured.
O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, ...
...lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy.
I confess to Almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, ...
... to blessed Michael the Archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, ...
... to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, and to all the Saints, ...
... that I have sinned exceedingly, in thought, word, and deed, ...
... through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault.
Therefore I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin, blessed Michael the Archangel, ...
... blessed John the Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, ...
... and all the Saints to pray to the Lord our God for me. Amen.
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our safeguard against ...
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our safeguard against ...
... the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God rebuke him, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, ...
... who wander throughout the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
Angel of God, my guardian dear, to whom His love commits me here, ...
... ever this night be at my side, to light and guard, to rule and guide. Amen.
Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, ...
... et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ...
... et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ...
... et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ...
... ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
Salve, Regina, mater misericordiae: vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve.
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes ...
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes ...
... in hac lacrimarum valle. Eia, ergo, advocata nostra, illos tuos ...
... misericordes oculos ad nos converte. Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ...
... ventris tui, nobis post hoc exsilium ostende. O clemens, O pia, ...
... O dulcis Virgo Maria. Ora pro nobis, sancta Dei Genetrix.
kLhLUKE-JR IS A PEDOPHILE! Oh, and god isn't real, sucka. Stop polluting the blockchain with your nonsense.
Ut digni efficiamur promissionibus Christi. Amen.
Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur Nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum.
Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur Nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum.
Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra. Panem nostrum quotidianum ...
... da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus ...
... debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo.
Domine Iesu Christe, Filius Dei, miserere me peccatorem!
Sanae is a good girl
We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee;
We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee;
because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
May the Holy Trinity be blessed.


Quote
I don't like generalisations in general (;)) but some posts here are really nothing better than some (out of context) statements of Luke-Jr.

I provided context for what I quoted.  What's being attributed to Luke here isn't anything that he would disagree with.  Go ahead and talk to him on IRC, you'll find out soon enough.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Sukrim on August 21, 2011, 12:09:19 AM
I find it a bit laughable to embed prayers in english, but well... thanks for the strings anyways and the advice how to get them.

Still it's of interest to me if this can impact security in any way. Otherwise it would just make the block chain a bit more compressible, no matter what is actually written in these strings.
Why are there still no ASCII penises in the block chain?!


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: burp on August 21, 2011, 12:14:44 AM
I find it a bit laughable to embed prayers in english, but well... thanks for the strings anyways and the advice how to get them.

He can just hope that god can decode ASCII… maybe if he spends more bitcoins on the corresponding transactions he will listen  ::)


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: norulezapply on August 21, 2011, 12:21:02 AM
I'm against this too. What's the point in cluttering up the entire bitcoin network and people's HDDs with narrow minded garbage like this. Keep your religious beliefs to yourselves and it won't cause any trouble, but this is just pushing it in people's faces and obviously causing problems (very pointless and unnecessary problems at that).


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Chris Acheson on August 21, 2011, 01:16:32 AM
Why are there still no ASCII penises in the block chain?!

This is a great idea.  Someone do it.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 21, 2011, 01:26:49 AM
For the record, I don't endorse block chain spam. I'm also not interested in participating in (this) Graet's troll/FUD thread.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Graet on August 21, 2011, 01:48:16 AM
For the record, I don't endorse block chain spam. I'm also not interested in participating in (this) Graet's troll/FUD thread.

lol


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Graet on August 21, 2011, 02:08:13 AM
Coinbase: 07456c696769757303c04e063f002e2e2e204f2064756c63697320566972676f204d617269612e2 04f72612070726f206e6f6269732c2073616e637461204465692047656e65747269782e00 (ᝣEligiusᝣᝣNᝣ?ᝣ... O dulcis Virgo Maria. Ora pro nobis, sancta Dei Genetrix.ᝣ)
from http://pident.artefact2.com/block/000000000000070f4407e0cf384e05275b7a0f31876baf3636b84cae341f4dc7

Coinbase: 07456c6967697573030ea2002d0057652061646f726520546865652c204f204368726973742c206 16e6420776520626c65737320546865653b00 (ᝣEligiusᝣᝣᝣᝣ-ᝣWe adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee;ᝣ)
http://pident.artefact2.com/block/00000000000002fa5ae8d386077c6279c977f14a948b36d93d180e3cc939dad9

infact http://pident.artefact2.com/block any recent Eligius block

"I don't like generalisations in general (Wink) but some posts here are really nothing better than some (out of context) statements of Luke-Jr"
 this is why i have only quoted irc from #bitcoin-dev on irc.freenone.net they are publically logged and anyone is welcome to read the WHOLE conversation :) There have been plenty of conversations in other chans but i will not introduce that as it cannot be publicly verified.

bcforum
"Putting aside the content discussion, I propose that all messages in the block chain are graffiti and we should (as a community)  work to clean it up. If someone were to embed child pornography in the block chain, and a week later publish instructions on how to access it we would ALL be guilty of possession."  

bcforum has hit the nail on the head.

Personally i believe freedom of religion is anyones choice, unfortunate that it was prayers that caused this to start, really it could have been anything put in the blockheader by any pool owner that caused this discussion.

Thanks again to those that take time to think AND are concerned for Bitcoins future :)

I wonder peoples reactions would have been different if i wasnt a pool owner? I refrain from posting on a lot of threads because i KNOW it will be accused of self intertest. I thought coinbase and transaction spam was an issue the whole community needed to be aware of. I propably chose the wrong topic for this thread, but at the time just wanted to knw if luke-jr has informed miners on Eligius, so that those of other faiths could know what was happening on the blocks they were contributing to and have a choice to participate or not.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: mb300sd on August 21, 2011, 02:42:14 AM
I really don't care that much, but given a choice, I'd rather contribute my MH/s to a different pool...

Maybe I'll put an ASCII penis in if I ever have enough GH/s solo mine a block...


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: randomguy7 on August 21, 2011, 02:46:18 AM
I'd be pissed if my hashing power would've been used for this without notifying me.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fletch on August 21, 2011, 08:42:46 AM
Eligius removed from my list of pools.

For the record, I don't endorse block chain spam.
Interesting. Your religious mumbo jumbo is just as valuable to me as Viagra ads. It is, for all intents and purposes, spam.


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: deepceleron on August 21, 2011, 09:30:22 AM
1f3gHNoBodYw1LLs3ndY0UanYB1tC0lnsBec4USeYoU9AREaCH34PBeGgAR67fx

Jack,

If that's a real wallet, I'll donate, just for your creativity...

Is it real?

That is an invalid bitcoin address, it is longer than 34 characters, and includes non-base58 characters "0" and "l"

static const char* pszBase58 = "123456789ABCDEFGHJKLMNPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijkmnopqrstuvwxyz";


While functional vanity addresses can be generated, it becomes computationally infeasable to generate more than a seven or eight letter vanity phrase. If you don't care about being able to receive or re-send the bitcoins, a longer valid address can be created without a matching private key with address format "1" + 18-28 valid base 58 characters + checksum.



Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: kwaaak on August 21, 2011, 09:40:28 AM
luke is a better troll than all of you


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Fletch on August 21, 2011, 10:03:23 AM
lol @ people letting religion affect them. Religious folk are a dying breed so heres what I say.
I wish it was that easy, but I'm afraid it's not. Religion affects us whether we want it or not (just look at the US presidency). It needs to be actively worked against if the human race is ever going to have any kind of positive future.


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Jack of Diamonds on August 21, 2011, 11:03:24 AM
lol @ people letting religion affect them. Religious folk are a dying breed so heres what I say.
I wish it was that easy, but I'm afraid it's not. Religion affects us whether we want it or not (just look at the US presidency). It needs to be actively worked against if the human race is ever going to have any kind of positive future.

Religion affects the presidency because not declaring a faith during an election is political suicide in current american society.
It also makes a candidate lose significant votes from family-centric, conservative and religious communities.

Even if you don't believe in anything, you *have* to declare a faith in the US political system if you want to get elected into any significant office.
There are just about zero self-professed atheists or agnostics in any elected government post for this reason.

http://www.adherents.com/adh_congress.html


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Fletch on August 21, 2011, 11:15:40 AM
Religion affects the presidency because not declaring a faith during an election is political suicide in current american society.
It also makes a candidate lose significant votes from family-centric, conservative and religious communities.

Even if you don't believe in anything, you *have* to declare a faith in the US political system if you want to get elected into any significant office.
There are just about zero self-professed atheists or agnostics in any elected government post for this reason.

http://www.adherents.com/adh_congress.html
That's true of course, but in this instance I was referring to the religious fanatics that could very well be elected in the near future:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/dominionism-a-dangerous-christian-movement-with-an-influence-on-michelle-bachmann-and-rick-perry/2011/08/15/gIQAydn5GJ_blog.html

Bachman and Perry aren't atheists that put on a religious facade in order to be able to run. These people are the Al-Qaeda of Christianity.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 21, 2011, 09:42:10 PM
It seems too many people might be taking this thread too seriously (although Eligius actually had a surge of miners join not long after it was posted...), so I'm "forced" to respond. In short, there is no technical problem with the prayers, and they do not involve Eligius miners any differently than solo miners-- the only reason I can speculate Graet posted this (since he won't give a rational reason) is to grab more miners to his pool or some kind of subtle anti-Catholic agenda (he denies both).

Personally i believe freedom of religion is anyones choice, unfortunate that it was prayers that caused this to start, really it could have been anything put in the blockheader by any pool owner that caused this discussion.
Yeah right. Nevermind the fact that it was actually started with political propaganda in the Genesys block by Satoshi himself, setting a clear and undeniable precedent.

Thanks again to those that take time to think AND are concerned for Bitcoins future :)
Anyone who can think knows this is at the very least neutral, and at best positive.

I thought coinbase and transaction spam was an issue the whole community needed to be aware of.
Coinbases and transaction spam are two entirely different things. Transaction spam serves no purpose, destroys coins, and can never be purged from the block chain. Coinbases can contain text messages by design, and can be purged immediately from your block chain.

I propably chose the wrong topic for this thread, but at the time just wanted to knw if luke-jr has informed miners on Eligius, so that those of other faiths could know what was happening on the blocks they were contributing to and have a choice to participate or not.
Miners do not participate at Eligius any more than they do at other pools or solo mining. Miners hash the prayers indirectly through multiple layers of SHA256 whether they are mining on Eligius or not. Furthermore, I have not been at all secretive about either the Catholic theme of St. Eligius, nor the fact that I have been including prayers rather than pure random data in the coinbase.

Graet is quick to deflect his "argument" to real block chain spam, and claim I am at fault for that. However, it doesn't take much thinking to realize this is the same as arguing that a rape victim is responsible for being raped. "Oh, you were putting prayers, so you're at fault for a troll really spamming the block chain with slander." "Oh, you were acting so good, so you're at fault for a rapist wanting to take away your innocence." This blame-the-victim attitude is IMO disgusting.

Also: Could this impact security of the blockchain somehow? If it is supposed to be random data there (whereever these prayers are) but this data isn't as random as it could be, this might not be "a good thing (TM)".
It's supposed to be random enough that miners aren't working on the same hashes. In practice, this only requires a few bytes of unique data, which Eligius guarantees by putting the usual extranonce at the start of the coinbase (the prayers are at the end, after the extranonce + "Eligius"). As noted, Satoshi himself endorsed putting text content in the coinbase with the Genesys block, so it would be silly to argue it creates any real problems.

If it bothers you than don't use his pool. For fuck sake its named st eligius after the patron saint of goldsmiths. I am catholic as well and as far as I know other religions are recognized. I went to catholic school for 12 years. This thread is retarded, hey guys I'm going to pray for all of you, and if you don't like it well fuck you, your going to heaven anyways. :P
St. Eligius actually is also the patron saint of miners, coin collectors,  and minters. Great, that you are Catholic, but I would recommend studying your religion a bit more-- especially the Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pope Pius IX (http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm), and the dogma of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (http://oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Religious_Toleration#II._THE_INADMISSIBILITY_OF_THEORETICAL_DOGMATIC_TOLERATION.) ("Outside the Church there is no salvation").


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Clipse on August 22, 2011, 02:50:05 AM
I think the issue that leaped from the OP is more in line with your catholic agenda rather than the prayer messages now.

You do seem rather militant with the rather rediculous approaches to non-catholics as stated in the logs posted.

I assure you the overall neutral approach to people(like you) acting out about their specific allmighty religion would not be seen/handled/acceptable to the vast majority of people if it were not christian orientated but rather muslim in this case and not to mention be called a terrorist.

The thread just opened up yet again how all religions have their militant religious nutjob terrorist inside.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: AnnihilaT on August 22, 2011, 06:26:59 AM
I think the issue that leaped from the OP is more in line with your catholic agenda rather than the prayer messages now.

You do seem rather militant with the rather rediculous approaches to non-catholics as stated in the logs posted.

I assure you the overall neutral approach to people(like you) acting out about their specific allmighty religion would not be seen/handled/acceptable to the vast majority of people if it were not christian orientated but rather muslim in this case and not to mention be called a terrorist.

The thread just opened up yet again how all religions have their militant religious nutjob terrorist inside.

Dont you think calling him a nutjob and a terrorist might be going a little bit too far? 


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Crs on August 22, 2011, 06:51:51 AM
This thread is a waste of time. I want my 2 minutes back.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: AnnihilaT on August 22, 2011, 06:59:43 AM
This thread is a waste of time. I want my 2 minutes back.

This post was a waste of me time.  I want my 2 seconds back.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: julz on August 22, 2011, 05:23:55 PM
FWIW - I've moved my modest miners off eligius.
I loved the tribute to Len Sassaman in the chain - but in contrast I find it a pretty sad commentary on humanity that superstition persists and rears it's brainless head even in these high tech corners.

What a powerful meme religion is though..  like a rapist wielding rohypnol - it opportunistically and crudely inserts it's seed into any innocent space it can find.. such is it's incessant will to spread.

Not that our blockchain was quite virginal - but how sullied it is now!  



Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: foggyb on August 22, 2011, 07:47:13 PM
<luke-jr> Graet: Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.

wow

Every religion demands absolute belief that their dogma is the correct one, and punishes doubt. Allowing doubt opens the gateway to thoughtful analysis and logic. Analysis such as "if I was born in a different country with different parents and a different color skin, would I believe just as deeply in the religion I was taught there since my birth?"

First, I'm a Christian, NOT Catholic. Luke is wrong. Jesus never said anything about forcing the issue.

Not in the old testmament:
Joshua 24:15 -  And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve;

Or the New Testament:
John 15:16 - You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you....

That latter verse is the answer to your thought about being born outside of Christian society.

I invite you to try to prove with logic that there is no God. PM me, we can start a debate. I've been through such discussions a hundred times. Its always the same, they leave their logical fails like hanging fastballs over the plate, they get lit up. Then they get mad, pretend they won, and leave with the ball.




Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 22, 2011, 07:55:15 PM
Jesus never said anything about forcing the issue.
Neither did I.


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: davout on August 22, 2011, 08:18:46 PM
I've been through such discussions a hundred times.
Feeding the same troll hundreds of times is usually not a sign of bright intelligence :)


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: foggyb on August 22, 2011, 09:46:35 PM
I've been through such discussions a hundred times.
Feeding the same troll hundreds of times is usually not a sign of bright intelligence :)

So stop feeding me.  ;)


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Fletch on August 22, 2011, 10:12:30 PM
I invite you to try to prove with logic that there is no God.
Why would anyone even try? If anything, the onus is on you to prove the opposite.


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: jackjack on August 22, 2011, 10:45:43 PM
I invite you to try to prove with logic that there is no God
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: teukon on August 22, 2011, 11:00:58 PM
I invite you to try to prove with logic that there is no God.
Why would anyone even try? If anything, the onus is on you to prove the opposite.

I don't think anyone's tried to claim that God exists yet or that God doesn't exist (apart from in the pedophile blockchain comment).  All I've heard is that some people believe that God exists and some people don't.  There seems to be a natural truce to be had here.

The one thing that puzzles me is why some think that prayers are more appropriate material for inclusion in the block chain than, say, pornography.
Graet is quick to deflect his "argument" to real block chain spam, ...
Trying my level best not to be biased, I believe christian writings and regular pornography should be treated on par with one another in this reguard.  Both information classes are very well-know, loved by many, and highly offensive to many others.  Is there some significant logical distinction I'm missing?


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 22, 2011, 11:09:38 PM
Graet is quick to deflect his "argument" to real block chain spam, ...
Trying my level best not to be biased, I believe christian writings and regular pornography should be treated on par with one another in this reguard.  Both information classes are very well-know, loved by many, and highly offensive to many others.  Is there some significant logical distinction I'm missing?
Two unrelated distinctions:
1. The prayers are part of the coinbase, which was designed for text messages, and can be instantly purged from the block chain if necessary. Real spam is a corrupt transaction, not by design, and can never be purged from the block chain.
2. Subjective offensiveness is irrelevant. The prayers are objectively good, and pornography is objectively evil.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: teukon on August 22, 2011, 11:31:12 PM
2. Subjective offensiveness is irrelevant. The prayers are objectively good, and pornography is objectively evil.

Now someone's gone and made a claim.  The onus of proof is upon you for both prayers being objectively good and pornography being objectively evil.  Perhaps the words 'good' and 'evil' have a special meaning in the christian faith which makes these statements provable but then you suffer from a self-reference which renders your point moot.

If there is no objective truth about the value of prayers or pornography then I think that subjective offensiveness is very much worth considering.

If you are trying to open my mind to the idea that logic itself is not absolute then I'm afraid I'm a lost cause.  My belief in logic is probably as strong as your belief in christianity.  If you reply to this with a solid logical argument then I'd love to continue this discussion but otherwise I think we'll simply have to go our separate ways.  Please know at least that you've not offended me.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 22, 2011, 11:56:52 PM
2. Subjective offensiveness is irrelevant. The prayers are objectively good, and pornography is objectively evil.
Now someone's gone and made a claim.  The onus of proof is upon you for both prayers being objectively good and pornography being objectively evil.
Only if I'm trying to convince you.

Perhaps the words 'good' and 'evil' have a special meaning in the christian faith which makes these statements provable but then you suffer from a self-reference which renders your point moot.

If there is no objective truth about the value of prayers or pornography then I think that subjective offensiveness is very much worth considering.
"Good" is defined as supportive of God's Will, and "evil" is defined as opposed to God's will. No modern or atheistic redefinitions have any practical value. But no, this does not involve a self-reference, because Christianity is itself objective truth, no matter who believes or denies it.

If you are trying to open my mind to the idea that logic itself is not absolute then I'm afraid I'm a lost cause.  My belief in logic is probably as strong as your belief in christianity.
Logic is what led me to Catholicism, but admittedly not a replacement for its (logic's) Creator.

If you reply to this with a solid logical argument then I'd love to continue this discussion but otherwise I think we'll simply have to go our separate ways.
Sorry, I generally don't try to convince people. You have created the requirement of logical proof for yourself, so you are the one responsible for resolving it. If you sincerely seek the truth regardless of your own biases, I'm sure you'll figure it out. If you have any questions about the conclusions I have come to, I'd be glad to answer them to the best of my ability (though this forum is not the proper place for that).


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: enmaku on August 23, 2011, 12:28:16 AM
I just love that anyone is shocked that the guy who named his pool after the patron saint of goldsmiths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Eligius) is a hardcore catholic. I liked Eligius for a long time, it's a good pool with a good payout system. I found out about the big ball of crazy behind it a while back and voted with my feet (er... voted with my GPUs?). I can't blame the OP for wanting to disseminate the information, though I will say that there are probably more tactful ways to do so than posting "omg gaiz he iz nutball!!1!" on the forums.

Edit: Also apparently the patron saint of coin collectors, which seems more appropriate. I should probably read things before linking them  ;D


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: teukon on August 23, 2011, 12:34:46 AM
Sorry, I generally don't try to convince people. You have created the requirement of logical proof for yourself, so you are the one responsible for resolving it. If you sincerely seek the truth regardless of your own biases, I'm sure you'll figure it out. If you have any questions about the conclusions I have come to, I'd be glad to answer them to the best of my ability (though this forum is not the proper place for that).

I'm surprised to admit that I find the logic you follow to be sound.  The fundamental difference between us seems to be in our initial assumptions: you appear to believe in God to the point of being unable to accept the possibility that God does not exist and I don't believe in God exactly as much as I don't believe in the flying spagetti monster.

I would say more but, as you say, this is very much off topic.  This will be my last post here.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Chris Acheson on August 23, 2011, 03:22:21 AM
I can't blame the OP for wanting to disseminate the information, though I will say that there are probably more tactful ways to do so than posting "omg gaiz he iz nutball!!1!" on the forums.

The OP was very tactful.  The rest of us were less so.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fletch on August 23, 2011, 07:47:59 AM
Logic is what led me to Catholicism, but admittedly not a replacement for its (logic's) Creator.
So you weren't born a Catholic? You reasoned your way into Catholicism as an adult? Somehow I doubt that.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Clipse on August 23, 2011, 12:00:44 PM
Its a simple topic.

You claim GOD exist, prove it.

I do not claim GOD exist nor do I specificly claim he doesnt exist(although I lean to this side any time of day based on the sad sack of evidence there is support his existance)

So again, it thee who shalt nameth thy evidence.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fletch on August 23, 2011, 02:20:11 PM
Some nice sources you got there viperjbm :rolleyes:

http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/jesus-christ-rode-dinosaurs.gif


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: enmaku on August 23, 2011, 04:08:08 PM
I can't blame the OP for wanting to disseminate the information, though I will say that there are probably more tactful ways to do so than posting "omg gaiz he iz nutball!!1!" on the forums.

The OP was very tactful.  The rest of us were less so.

That's actually what I meant, my language could've been more clear, sorry.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: jackjack on August 23, 2011, 04:14:41 PM
Some nice sources you got there viperjbm :rolleyes:

http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/jesus-christ-rode-dinosaurs.gif

See and this is where non-Christians fall up short, had you taken the time to even read those which you couldn't have given your hasty response you would see that this points to both secular and non secular research findings.  As easily as you claim the religious among us do not look at evidence it is apparent you are not as well.

Additional to note those claims were not made to prove God's existence but are evidence of biblical events providing a level of credibility to the passages herein written, which you dismiss as myth without thinking and searching for yourself.

Another religious retard on the bitcoin forums ... sigh.

Maybe you folks ought to make your own fork of the block chain, with its own
forums and go chant, drink your maker's blood, sacrifice small birds or do
there whatever your favorite supersitious practice may be.
I don't think you're talking about my religion, but it's a great idea
Anybody with me for Pastafacoin ?


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Chris Acheson on August 23, 2011, 04:28:58 PM
I can't blame the OP for wanting to disseminate the information, though I will say that there are probably more tactful ways to do so than posting "omg gaiz he iz nutball!!1!" on the forums.

The OP was very tactful.  The rest of us were less so.

That's actually what I meant, my language could've been more clear, sorry.

I can't speak for Luke's other critics, but I personally have no tolerance for fascists.  I'd like to see the guy shunned out of the Bitcoin community.  In what way should I be tactful about that?


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fletch on August 23, 2011, 04:50:57 PM
See and this is where non-Christians fall up short, had you taken the time to even read those which you couldn't have given your hasty response you would see that this points to both secular and non secular research findings.
I'm sorry, but creationists are where I draw the line. Arguing with you people is like banging your head against the wall.


Title: Re: prayers in block headers? alienate your miners?
Post by: Grinder on August 23, 2011, 07:36:18 PM
I invite you to try to prove with logic that there is no God.
I invite you to try to prove with logic that I can't prove it.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: strictlyfocused on August 23, 2011, 07:44:36 PM
I don't think you're talking about my religion, but it's a great idea
Anybody with me for Pastafacoin ?

Someone needs to get on this STAT. I will direct all my miners at the first pool that has support for pastacoins!


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Mousepotato on August 23, 2011, 08:50:22 PM
You know what I don't understand? And this is just an observation from what I've read on various forums, mind you.  People are always quick to chime in when it comes to Christianity or any of its various flavors, but if Graet had noticed quotes from the Quran being quoted, would he have been so eager to post the same thread?  I've noticed that when it comes to Christianity, people get really loud about denouncing it.  But when Islam is brought up, the exact same people suddenly get REALLY polite and STFU about it.  Or at best they'll be like "Oh hey, yeah whatever you want to believe, that's cool man!"  Or they'd never even make the thread to begin with, which is how it should be IMHO.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: jackjack on August 23, 2011, 09:25:56 PM
if Graet had noticed quotes from the Quran being quoted, would he have been so eager to post the same thread?
Give it a try if you're not convinced so
If not him, others would have created the thread

Even if you're right, so what? This makes prayers in the blockchain anymore acceptable?


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fletch on August 23, 2011, 09:35:00 PM
You know what I don't understand? And this is just an observation from what I've read on various forums, mind you.  People are always quick to chime in when it comes to Christianity or any of its various flavors, but if Graet had noticed quotes from the Quran being quoted, would he have been so eager to post the same thread?
I can't speak for Graet, but I sure hope so! As westerners, Christianity is shoved down our throats everyday whereas the same doesn't really happen with Islam. Maybe that's why you've experienced what you talk about.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Mousepotato on August 23, 2011, 09:43:09 PM
Give it a try if you're not convinced so
If not him, others would have created the thread

Even if you're right, so what? This makes prayers in the blockchain anymore acceptable?

I don't understand what makes it unacceptable.  If you don't like a certain pools fees/name/random text in the block chain, then (and this is from way out in left field lulz) don't join that pool.  Or better yet, create your own.  It's not exactly rocket surgery we're talking about, or am I missing something?


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Mousepotato on August 23, 2011, 09:45:24 PM
I can't speak for Graet, but I sure hope so! As westerners, Christianity is shoved down our throats everyday whereas the same doesn't really happen with Islam. Maybe that's why you've experienced what you talk about.

As an atheist, I'm very sensitive to religious propaganda, and I can honestly say I see a LOT more Islam-related articles on the front page of my local newspapers website than anything else.  It almost seems as if mainstream media is bending over backwards to ingratiate the Muslim community.  Have you not seen this phenomena in your neck of the woods?


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fletch on August 23, 2011, 09:55:37 PM
As an atheist, I'm very sensitive to religious propaganda, and I can honestly say I see a LOT more Islam-related articles on the front page of my local newspapers website than anything else.  It almost seems as if mainstream media is bending over backwards to ingratiate the Muslim community.  Have you not seen this phenomena in your neck of the woods?
That was kind of my point. Whereas the discussion on Islam is very much in the public eye and has been for some time, Christianity is the norm and therefore it doesn't get the attention it deserves.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: AnnihilaT on August 23, 2011, 10:08:56 PM
Quote
rocket surgery

:D :D :D


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Litt on August 23, 2011, 10:10:20 PM
Why is it that humankind, after fighting many bloody years and running away to another continent to have the freedom to not be forced faith upon, CHOOSE to believe in religious practices today? Are we so dumb that we cannot learn from out past mistakes history? Why not let go of our self created mysticism and fallacy that dates back to near early days of civilazation 4-5k years ago. We are no longer living in the bronze age and we no longer are center of the universe either. I don't care what these religious people say about their beliefs and faiths.

They are the kind of people that are holding back the progress of humankind in my eyes. In fact the catholics literally did hold back scientific progress for centries. Do we learn nothing from history? Religion is the earliest form of gov propaganda that dates back the Egyptian civilization. It was also the primitive form of taxation in early civilization. Get over it already people... seriously. Stop enslaving yourself.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Mousepotato on August 23, 2011, 10:25:32 PM
Quote
rocket surgery

:D :D :D

Rocket surgery or Brain science.  I couldn't figure out which one was better :P


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: dayfall on August 23, 2011, 10:28:58 PM
I don't think you're talking about my religion, but it's a great idea
Anybody with me for Pastafacoin ?

I am with you.  His sticker is on my car.

Also, my client will no longer be acting as a node.  I like having people's false gods off of my money.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Starlightbreaker on August 23, 2011, 11:12:13 PM
Some nice sources you got there viperjbm :rolleyes:

http://www.blog.joelx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/jesus-christ-rode-dinosaurs.gif

See and this is where non-Christians fall up short, had you taken the time to even read those which you couldn't have given your hasty response you would see that this points to both secular and non secular research findings.  As easily as you claim the religious among us do not look at evidence it is apparent you are not as well.

Additional to note those claims were not made to prove God's existence but are evidence of biblical events providing a level of credibility to the passages herein written, which you dismiss as myth without thinking and searching for yourself.

Another religious retard on the bitcoin forums ... sigh.

Maybe you folks ought to make your own fork of the block chain, with its own
forums and go chant, drink your maker's blood, sacrifice small birds or do
there whatever your favorite supersitious practice may be.
I don't think you're talking about my religion, but it's a great idea
Anybody with me for Pastafacoin ?
ramen.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: jackjack on August 23, 2011, 11:16:09 PM
In fact the catholics literally did hold back scientific progress for centries
http://nynerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/dark-ages.jpg


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Miner-TE on August 24, 2011, 01:02:47 AM
Edit:  Removed


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 24, 2011, 01:06:44 AM
Edit: Removed unsolvable exploit.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Miner-TE on August 24, 2011, 01:14:46 AM
Edit:  Removed


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fletch on August 24, 2011, 07:35:24 AM
Hmm. What happened here?


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: AnnihilaT on August 24, 2011, 08:43:17 AM
Hmm. What happened here?

Indeed...  tin foil hat time...  what did we miss?  You dont have to release details but please tell us the gist?  Exploit in lukes pool or with bitcoin?


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: bitclown on August 24, 2011, 09:16:05 AM
Hmm. What happened here?

Indeed...  tin foil hat time...  what did we miss?  You dont have to release details but please tell us the gist?  Exploit in lukes pool or with bitcoin?
Had nothing to do with vulnerabilities in neither Bitcoin nor any pools, just an inconvenience on some platforms. If it's even possible to pull off it's a 3rd party fault, so I don't see the harm in disclosing it.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: AnnihilaT on August 24, 2011, 10:33:51 AM
so who is going to disclose then? :)


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Emmanuel-SDRN on August 24, 2011, 11:08:38 AM
As an atheist, I'm very sensitive to religious propaganda, and I can honestly say I see a LOT more Islam-related articles on the front page of my local newspapers website than anything else.  It almost seems as if mainstream media is bending over backwards to ingratiate the Muslim community.  Have you not seen this phenomena in your neck of the woods?

It is my experience that most do tread much more carefully when the issue is Islamic in nature. While I have my theory on why it is so, I shall refrain as it would perhaps be inappropriate and offensive to some.




Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: arsenische on August 24, 2011, 12:22:57 PM
I think we should be tolerant to Luke-Jr's religious propaganda (even though I don't like it).  I think Luke-Jr tries to make the world better, and we should respect that, not all of us do.

On the other hand I agree with Graet: the mining pool users deserve to know that they are not only mining for bitcoins, but are also supporting Catholicism. Their views could be incompatible with supporting Catholicism, so it would be honest to make it explicit.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fletch on August 24, 2011, 12:35:39 PM
I think Luke-Jr tries to make the world better
I'm convinced he does. We just have widely different opinions on what "better" means.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 24, 2011, 01:31:26 PM
Hmm. What happened here?

Indeed...  tin foil hat time...  what did we miss?  You dont have to release details but please tell us the gist?  Exploit in lukes pool or with bitcoin?
He asked what was to stop a certain attack against Bitcoin rendering it unusable by the average Joe. There really is nothing to stop it, so we agreed it was best kept quiet.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: AnnihilaT on August 24, 2011, 02:08:17 PM
Hmm. What happened here?

Indeed...  tin foil hat time...  what did we miss?  You dont have to release details but please tell us the gist?  Exploit in lukes pool or with bitcoin?
He asked what was to stop a certain attack against Bitcoin rendering it unusable by the average Joe. There really is nothing to stop it, so we agreed it was best kept quiet.

Luke-Jr,  Please tread very carefully with this one... Security thru obscurity is NO security at all.... if there is no defense against this i sure hope the whole bitcoin dev teams knows about this and are working on it as we speak...  can you comment on that?   Its really not good form to keep these things private.   Who does it affect? Users?  Miners? Pool Operators? Everyone? Some disclosure needs to be done so that people can protect themselves depending on what type of vulnerability we are talking about.


I really dont think this should be kept completely quiet.  SOME information needs to be disclosed!


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: strictlyfocused on August 24, 2011, 02:25:19 PM
Luke-Jr,  Please tread very carefully with this one... Security thru obscurity is NO security at all.... if there is no defense against this i sure hope the whole bitcoin dev teams knows about this and are working on it as we speak...  can you comment on that?   Its really not good form to keep these things private.   Who does it affect? Users?  Miners? Pool Operators? Everyone? Some disclosure needs to be done so that people can protect themselves depending on what type of vulnerability we are talking about.


I really dont think this should be kept completely quiet.  SOME information needs to be disclosed!

This x 1000

Ill mine regardless of block header content, but if this isnt handled properly I will jump ship from Eliguis without hesitation and Im sure others would do the same. Ideally Luke-Jr would be respectable about disclosing WTF is going on to prevent a mass exodus of his service.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 24, 2011, 02:35:23 PM
Indeed...  tin foil hat time...  what did we miss?  You dont have to release details but please tell us the gist?  Exploit in lukes pool or with bitcoin?
He asked what was to stop a certain attack against Bitcoin rendering it unusable by the average Joe. There really is nothing to stop it, so we agreed it was best kept quiet.

Luke-Jr,  Please tread very carefully with this one... Security thru obscurity is NO security at all.... if there is no defense against this i sure hope the whole bitcoin dev teams knows about this and are working on it as we speak...  can you comment on that?   Its really not good form to keep these things private.   Who does it affect? Users?  Miners? Pool Operators? Everyone? Some disclosure needs to be done so that people can protect themselves depending on what type of vulnerability we are talking about.


I really dont think this should be kept completely quiet.  SOME information needs to be disclosed!
It only potentially interferes with less competent computer users from using Bitcoin. There are no security implications for actual usage.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: dayfall on August 24, 2011, 02:37:29 PM
but if Graet had noticed quotes from the Quran being quoted, would he have been so eager to post the same thread? 

My thoughts and subsequent actions would have been the same.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: mog on August 24, 2011, 03:01:28 PM
Quote
Great, that you are Catholic, but I would recommend studying your religion a bit more-- especially the Syllabus of Errors condemned by Pope Pius IX, and the dogma of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus ("Outside the Church there is no salvation").

Really? I'd suggest YOU study your religion a bit more, perhaps you'd realize how the fuck to spell GENESIS correctly.

Quote
Nevermind the fact that it was actually started with political propaganda in the Genesys block by Satoshi himself, setting a clear and undeniable precedent.



Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Graet on August 27, 2011, 12:52:26 AM
but if Graet had noticed quotes from the Quran being quoted, would he have been so eager to post the same thread? 

My thoughts and subsequent actions would have been the same.

To be very clear If anything that can offend anyone is put in blockheaders I would object it doesnt even have to be a prayer.

My original post was about whether a poolop had informed his miners of what he was doing (or keeping stuff secret) I never did get a yes or no answer, but from other peoples replies I can see it wasn't announced in a way that informed all miners on that pool and gave them a choice to participate or not.

My point (belief) that anyone is free to practice the religion of their choice seems to have been missed.

i thought this thread had been deleted, missed so much of the fun..... bit rude to move it without telling OP imo, but hey thats just my opinion...



Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fakeman on August 27, 2011, 02:52:42 PM
In all the threads on this topic I haven't been able to find a quote of what exactly is in these block headers that is supposed to be so controversial, just a bunch of chat logs where this is alluded to. Maybe "I'm eating a big juicy hamburger" would offend some vegetarian miner somewhere, but chances are that person gets offended by a lot of things in life and perhaps even seeks out things to be 'offended' about. As long as there is nothing illegal or really nasty (e.g. advocating hatred/violence against some group of people) then I could give a rat's ass what's in there.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Sukrim on August 27, 2011, 03:03:59 PM
How about the string that Luke-Jr is a pedophile then, which is also in the block chain?! I consider this VERY nasty, personally offensive and advocating hatred not just against him but (presumably) all members of the catholic church, as this seems to be the root cause for this accusation.

Maybe they talked about pools not relaying transactions? Something that is currently not encouraged or enforced - and actually hurt any pool, if they relay valuable transactions elsewhere.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: jackjack on August 27, 2011, 03:08:15 PM
How about the string that Luke-Jr is a pedophile then, which is also in the block chain?! I consider this VERY nasty, personally offensive and advocating hatred not just against him but (presumably) all members of the catholic church, as this seems to be the root cause for this accusation.

Maybe they talked about pools not relaying transactions? Something that is currently not encouraged or enforced - and actually hurt any pool, if they relay valuable transactions elsewhere.
OP is just saying that LukeJr must tell miners that Eligius put prayers in the blockchain
So...nothing to do with that


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 27, 2011, 03:12:30 PM
How about the string that Luke-Jr is a pedophile then, which is also in the block chain?!
That one is actual spam, and can never be deleted/pruned. (as opposed to my text, which is all coinbases: designed for short text messages, and can be deleted/pruned immediately)

OP is just saying that LukeJr must tell miners that Eligius put prayers in the blockchain
So...nothing to do with that
No, OP is just trolling. Miners don't do anything with the prayers. As one person put it, this is like complaining that a burger restaurant prints Bible verses on its sandwich wrappers.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 27, 2011, 03:36:17 PM
In all the threads on this topic I haven't been able to find a quote of what exactly is in these block headers that is supposed to be so controversial, just a bunch of chat logs where this is alluded to. Maybe "I'm eating a big juicy hamburger" would offend some vegetarian miner somewhere, but chances are that person gets offended by a lot of things in life and perhaps even seeks out things to be 'offended' about. As long as there is nothing illegal or really nasty (e.g. advocating hatred/violence against some group of people) then I could give a rat's ass what's in there.
http://pident.artefact2.com/block/000000000000052f8e747189e44e60212976b830f49cf6aedd3feec50571a566


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Fakeman on August 27, 2011, 03:49:15 PM
Nice.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Chris Acheson on August 27, 2011, 06:59:03 PM
In all the threads on this topic I haven't been able to find a quote of what exactly is in these block headers that is supposed to be so controversial, just a bunch of chat logs where this is alluded to.

Here:

Can we have links to a few blocks of Eligius to see this ourselves?

Output of "strings -n 20 .bitcoin/blk0001.dat":

Code:
EThe Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>z+o>
=ybegin line=128 siz
e=8776 name=bitcoin.
***2*.+D*/***+***h+E
*/***+***p+R*-***+*,
**+[*,***;***x******
0010/211133246>76556
C<=}9>GDIHGDFFJNXQJL
VMFFRaSVZ[^^^IQcgb\f
KFK\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
+/++++++********+,-.
DPQRST_`abcdmnopqrst
*>{o*>{o*>{o*>{o*>{o
---BEGIN TRIBUTE---
#./BitLen           
:::::::::::::::::::
:::::::.::.::.:.:::
:.: :.' ' ' ' ' : :
:.:'' ,,xiW,"4x, ''
:  ,dWWWXXXXi,4WX, 
' dWWWXXX7"     `X,
 lWWWXX7   __   _ X
:WWWXX7 ,xXX7' "^^X
lWWWX7, _.+,, _.+.,
:WWW7,. `^"-" ,^-' 
 WW",X:        X,   
 "7^^Xl.    _(_x7' 
 l ( :X:       __ _
 `. " XX  ,xxWWWWX7
  )X- "" 4X" .___. 
,W X     :Xi  _,,_ 
WW X      4XiyXWWXd
"" ,,      4XWWWWXX
, R7X,       "^447^
R, "4RXk,      _, ,
TWk  "4RXXi,   X',x
lTWk,  "4RRR7' 4 XH
:lWWWk,  ^"     `4 
::TTXWWi,_  Xll :..
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
LEN "rabbi" SASSAMA
     1980-2011     
Len was our friend.
A brilliant mind,   
a kind soul, and   
a devious schemer; 
husband to Meredith
brother to Calvin, 
son to Jim and     
Dana Hartshorn,     
coauthor and       
cofounder and       
Shmoo and so much   
more.  We dedicate 
this silly hack to 
Len, who would have
found it absolutely
hilarious.         
--Dan Kaminsky,     
Travis Goodspeed   
P.S.  My apologies,
BitCoin people.  He
also would have     
LOL'd at BitCoin's 
new dependency upon
   ASCII BERNANKE   
:'::.:::::.:::.::.:
: :.: ' ' ' ' : :':
:.:     _.__    '.:
:   _,^"   "^x,   :
'  x7'        `4,   
 XX7            4XX
 XX              XX
 Xl ,xxx,   ,xxx,XX
( ' _,+o, | ,o+,"   
 4   "-^' X "^-'" 7
 l,     ( ))     ,X
 :Xx,_ ,xXXXxx,_,XX
  4XXiX'-___-`XXXX'
   4XXi,_   _iXX7' 
  , `4XXXXXXXXX^ _,
  Xx,  ""^^^XX7,xX 
W,"4WWx,_ _,XxWWX7'
Xwi, "4WW7""4WW7',W
TXXWw, ^7 Xk 47 ,WH
:TXXXWw,_ "), ,wWT:
::TTXXWWW lXl WWT: 
----END TRIBUTE----
Eligius/Benedictus Deus. Benedictum Nomen Sanctum eius.
Eligius/Benedictus Deus. Benedictum Nomen Sanctum eius.
***************************************************
Benedictus Iesus Christus, verus Deus et verus homo.
Benedictum Nomen Iesu.
   I LIKE TURTLES   
Benedictum Cor eius sacratissimum.
Benedictus Sanguis eius pretiosissimus.
Benedictus Iesus in sanctissimo altaris Sacramento.
Benedictus Sanctus Spiritus, Paraclitus.
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Benedictus Sanctus Spiritus, Paraclitus.
Benedicta excelsa Mater Dei, Maria sanctissima.
Benedicta sancta eius et immaculata Conceptio.
Benedicta sancta eius et immaculata Conceptio.
Benedicta eius gloriosa Assumptio.
Benedictum nomen Mariae, Virginis et Matris.
Benedictum nomen Mariae, Virginis et Matris.
Benedictus sanctus Ioseph, eius castissimus Sponsus.
Benedictus Deus in Angelis suis, et in Sanctis suis. Amen.
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee and I detest all my sins...
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee and I detest all my sins...
Eye'm the strongest!
...because of Thy just punishments, but most of all because they offend Thee, ...
...my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more...
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more...
...and avoid the near occasions of sin. Amen.
O my God! I firmly believe that Thou art one God in three Divine persons, ...
O my God! I firmly believe that Thou art one God in three Divine persons, ...
...Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; I believe that Thy Divine Son became man, ...
...and died for our sins, and that he will come to, judge the living and the dead.
I believe these and all the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, ...
...because Thou hast revealed them, who canst neither deceive nor be deceived.
O my God! relying on Thy infinite goodness and promises, ...
...I hope to obtain pardon of my sins, the help of Thy grace, ...
...and life everlasting, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Redeemer.
...and life everlasting, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Redeemer.
O my God! I love Thee above all things, with my whole heart and soul, ...
...because Thou art all-good and worthy of all love.
...because Thou art all-good and worthy of all love.
Yukkuri Shiteitte ne
I love my neighbor as myself for the love of Thee.
I forgive all who have injured me, and ask pardon of all whom I have injured.
I forgive all who have injured me, and ask pardon of all whom I have injured.
I forgive all who have injured me, and ask pardon of all whom I have injured.
O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, ...
...lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy.
I confess to Almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, ...
... to blessed Michael the Archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, ...
... to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, and to all the Saints, ...
... that I have sinned exceedingly, in thought, word, and deed, ...
... through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault.
Therefore I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin, blessed Michael the Archangel, ...
... blessed John the Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, ...
... and all the Saints to pray to the Lord our God for me. Amen.
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our safeguard against ...
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our safeguard against ...
... the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God rebuke him, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, ...
... who wander throughout the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
Angel of God, my guardian dear, to whom His love commits me here, ...
... ever this night be at my side, to light and guard, to rule and guide. Amen.
Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, ...
... et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ...
... et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ...
... et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ...
... ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
Salve, Regina, mater misericordiae: vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve.
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes ...
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes ...
... in hac lacrimarum valle. Eia, ergo, advocata nostra, illos tuos ...
... misericordes oculos ad nos converte. Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ...
... ventris tui, nobis post hoc exsilium ostende. O clemens, O pia, ...
... O dulcis Virgo Maria. Ora pro nobis, sancta Dei Genetrix.
kLhLUKE-JR IS A PEDOPHILE! Oh, and god isn't real, sucka. Stop polluting the blockchain with your nonsense.
Ut digni efficiamur promissionibus Christi. Amen.
Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur Nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum.
Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur Nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum.
Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra. Panem nostrum quotidianum ...
... da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus ...
... debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo.
Domine Iesu Christe, Filius Dei, miserere me peccatorem!
Sanae is a good girl
We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee;
We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee;
because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
May the Holy Trinity be blessed.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: makomk on August 28, 2011, 10:39:41 AM
Just spotted this conversation in #bitcoin yesterday afternoon:

Quote
17:53 < luke-jr> people should be hostile toward false religions and homosexuals, at least
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: why homosexuals?
17:53 < luke-jr> graingert: same reason people should be hostile to serial killers
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: because homosexuals go round killing people?
17:53 < luke-jr> worse
...
17:58 < Blitzboom> what’s worth than murder, homosexuality?
17:59 < Blitzboom> worse*
17:59 < noagendamarket> Apparently it is Blitzboom
17:59 < graingert> Blitzboom: someone who is luke-jr:gay is someone who is worse than a serial killer
17:59 < luke-jr> Blitzboom: yes

Sigh.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Jack of Diamonds on August 28, 2011, 02:16:41 PM
Just spotted this conversation in #bitcoin yesterday afternoon:

Quote
17:53 < luke-jr> people should be hostile toward false religions and homosexuals, at least
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: why homosexuals?
17:53 < luke-jr> graingert: same reason people should be hostile to serial killers
17:53 < graingert> luke-jr: because homosexuals go round killing people?
17:53 < luke-jr> worse
...
17:58 < Blitzboom> what’s worth than murder, homosexuality?
17:59 < Blitzboom> worse*
17:59 < noagendamarket> Apparently it is Blitzboom
17:59 < graingert> Blitzboom: someone who is luke-jr:gay is someone who is worse than a serial killer
17:59 < luke-jr> Blitzboom: yes

Sigh.

Must be trolling, I can't believe Luke-Jr actually wrote those.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: jackjack on August 28, 2011, 02:30:32 PM
In all the threads on this topic I haven't been able to find a quote of what exactly is in these block headers that is supposed to be so controversial, just a bunch of chat logs where this is alluded to.

Here:

Can we have links to a few blocks of Eligius to see this ourselves?

Output of "strings -n 20 .bitcoin/blk0001.dat":

Code:
Eligius/Benedictus Deus. Benedictum Nomen Sanctum eius.
Eligius/Benedictus Deus. Benedictum Nomen Sanctum eius.
***************************************************
Benedictus Iesus Christus, verus Deus et verus homo.
Benedictum Nomen Iesu.
   I LIKE TURTLES  
Benedictum Cor eius sacratissimum.
Benedictus Sanguis eius pretiosissimus.
Benedictus Iesus in sanctissimo altaris Sacramento.
Benedictus Sanctus Spiritus, Paraclitus.
C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
Benedictus Sanctus Spiritus, Paraclitus.
Benedicta excelsa Mater Dei, Maria sanctissima.
Benedicta sancta eius et immaculata Conceptio.
Benedicta sancta eius et immaculata Conceptio.
Benedicta eius gloriosa Assumptio.
Benedictum nomen Mariae, Virginis et Matris.
Benedictum nomen Mariae, Virginis et Matris.
Benedictus sanctus Ioseph, eius castissimus Sponsus.
Benedictus Deus in Angelis suis, et in Sanctis suis. Amen.
In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee and I detest all my sins...
O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee and I detest all my sins...
Eye'm the strongest!
...because of Thy just punishments, but most of all because they offend Thee, ...
...my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more...
I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to sin no more...
...and avoid the near occasions of sin. Amen.
O my God! I firmly believe that Thou art one God in three Divine persons, ...
O my God! I firmly believe that Thou art one God in three Divine persons, ...
...Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; I believe that Thy Divine Son became man, ...
...and died for our sins, and that he will come to, judge the living and the dead.
I believe these and all the truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, ...
...because Thou hast revealed them, who canst neither deceive nor be deceived.
O my God! relying on Thy infinite goodness and promises, ...
...I hope to obtain pardon of my sins, the help of Thy grace, ...
...and life everlasting, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Redeemer.
...and life everlasting, through the merits of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Redeemer.
O my God! I love Thee above all things, with my whole heart and soul, ...
...because Thou art all-good and worthy of all love.
...because Thou art all-good and worthy of all love.
Yukkuri Shiteitte ne
I love my neighbor as myself for the love of Thee.
I forgive all who have injured me, and ask pardon of all whom I have injured.
I forgive all who have injured me, and ask pardon of all whom I have injured.
I forgive all who have injured me, and ask pardon of all whom I have injured.
O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, ...
...lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy.
I confess to Almighty God, to blessed Mary ever Virgin, ...
... to blessed Michael the Archangel, to blessed John the Baptist, ...
... to the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, and to all the Saints, ...
... that I have sinned exceedingly, in thought, word, and deed, ...
... through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault.
Therefore I beseech blessed Mary ever Virgin, blessed Michael the Archangel, ...
... blessed John the Baptist, the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, ...
... and all the Saints to pray to the Lord our God for me. Amen.
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our safeguard against ...
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our safeguard against ...
... the wickedness and snares of the Devil. May God rebuke him, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... we humbly pray, and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, ...
... by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan and all the other evil spirits, ...
... who wander throughout the world, seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
Angel of God, my guardian dear, to whom His love commits me here, ...
... ever this night be at my side, to light and guard, to rule and guide. Amen.
Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, ...
... et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ...
... et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ...
... et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ...
... ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.
Salve, Regina, mater misericordiae: vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra, salve.
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes ...
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevae. Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes ...
... in hac lacrimarum valle. Eia, ergo, advocata nostra, illos tuos ...
... misericordes oculos ad nos converte. Et Iesum, benedictum fructum ...
... ventris tui, nobis post hoc exsilium ostende. O clemens, O pia, ...
... O dulcis Virgo Maria. Ora pro nobis, sancta Dei Genetrix.
kLhLUKE-JR IS A PEDOPHILE! Oh, and god isn't real, sucka. Stop polluting the blockchain with your nonsense.
Ut digni efficiamur promissionibus Christi. Amen.
Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur Nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum.
Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur Nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum.
Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra. Panem nostrum quotidianum ...
... da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus ...
... debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo.
Domine Iesu Christe, Filius Dei, miserere me peccatorem!
Sanae is a good girl
We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee;
We adore Thee, O Christ, and we bless Thee;
because by Thy holy Cross Thou hast redeemed the world.
May the Holy Trinity be blessed.
How do we get rid of that f*cking shit??
Quote
my text, which is all coinbases: designed for short text messages, and can be deleted/pruned immediately


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: makomk on August 28, 2011, 10:11:47 PM
Must be trolling, I can't believe Luke-Jr actually wrote those.
I'm afraid he did write exactly what I quoted. Does that really surprise you after reading some of the logs linked earlier in this thread? Honestly? (It's not any better in context either before you ask; the context was him justifying why his bigotry wasn't bigotry after someone complained about it.)

How do we get rid of that f*cking shit??
Quote
my text, which is all coinbases: designed for short text messages, and can be deleted/pruned immediately
We actually can't. Individual nodes could in theory be modified to prune it, but by doing so they'd damage the integrity of the entire Bitcoin network by rendering themselves unable to distribute a full and verifiable record of the block chain to other nodes. We're basically stuck with it being carried around by every single full Bitcoin node forevermore.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: kirax on August 29, 2011, 04:07:48 AM
I would just like to make a short comment: I researched Elingus as a pool, realized it was related to a saint, and did not care overmuch. I chose other pools for other (non-topical) reasons. Had it been posted, anywhere, that the pool was injecting any religious message at all into the coinbase, I would have simply shrugged, and went to another pool without pause. However, the sneaky including it in supposedly random data is underhanded and deplorable.

Also, on a side note, as a businessperson, if half of what I have read in this topic as logs from Luke Jr are not falsified, I will politely refrain from ever doing any form of business with him.

On a totally personal and somewhat offtopic note, I find the sorts of intolerant views expressed by some (Love worse then murder? Wait, what?) to be abhorrent and, if I believed in any higher power, to be a sin against he/she/it/them.

I do not believe that this belongs in the coinbase, and should be pruned. Post-haste. In the interest of fairness, I am willing to concede that all non-random data should be pruned, although some of the rest is at least amusing.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 05:06:36 AM
if half of what I have read in this topic as logs from Luke Jr are not falsified

Logs from #bitcoin and #bitcoin-dev are available here: http://bitcoinstats.com/
Logs from #eligius are available here: http://eligius.searchonirc.com/

You can use google to find the specific conversations you want to verify.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Luke-Jr on August 29, 2011, 05:18:04 AM
However, the sneaky including it in supposedly random data is underhanded and deplorable.
The fact is that the coinbase was designed so that (small) text could be embedded in it, and in fact the first coinbase ever (in the "Genesis" block) contains libertarian propaganda. Nor was it ever "sneaky", or in any way secret-- besides the obviousness of everyone having a copy, nobody trollish enough to actually have a problem with it would have probably ever noticed it if I didn't make it known (in public IRC channels, obviously long before this thread was posted).


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: arsenische on August 29, 2011, 05:53:57 AM
The fact is that the coinbase was designed so that (small) text could be embedded in it, and in fact the first coinbase ever (in the "Genesis" block) contains libertarian propaganda.

I think we should be tolerant to propaganda, it is free speech. The first block was generated by Satoshi himself, so he could put there whatever he wanted. But mining pool is something people have share in, so I think it would be fair if they know what they are contributing to.


Title: Re: Eligius miners aware of prayers in block headers?
Post by: Graet on August 29, 2011, 06:00:19 AM
<luke-jr> http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/FAQ#What_messages_are_included_in_payout_coinbases.3F

<luke-jr> http://eligius.st/wiki/index.php/Policies

luke-jr has agreed that putting this info up for miners is good :)

thanks for the input folks :D