Bitcoin Forum

Just wondering what people thought.

My thoughts,

For a relatively small investment, 50-60 million dollars, (+- the value of 1-2 tons of gold) A small country can acquire a 100 000 BTC position.
In the event BTC fails, it is small enough that they would not have to disclose it, but in the event that there are mass bail outs and/or a global fiat crisis then BTC value would skyrocket. In which case, where most countries may be facing some form of revolt, a finance minister/president that could announce he had the foresight to add a BTC position to his countries reserves, now worth billions of dollars, and easily distributable to places in need,  may be seen as a visionary/hero/saviour.

Also whatever China's ultimate position on BTC may be. This last week gave them a great opportunity to accumulate a VERY LARGE 1 000 000 + BTC position without raising, but actually decreasing the price. Personally I think it may soon be a strategic necessity for large countries to take positions in BTC even if they are actively engaged in discouraging it.

(In a currency crisis, besides outperforming gold, BTC may even be seen as superior to gold. Because the public may be skeptical that newly issued notes supposedly now redeemable for gold have not been over-issued and plus there would be distribution hurdles. Meanwhile satoshis could be immediately distributed to places in need in a crisis & are also completely 'verifiable'.)

no of course.

World governments are already acquiring them through seizures of the proceeds of illegal activities. Like the silk road and the virus writers in Germany.

It doesn't work like that. There is a limit to the number of bitcoins ever to exist. Out of the 21 million, only 12 million has been mined. There are many big players holding a lot of coins, like Satoshi (who would probably never move his coins, for doing so signals the second coming of Satoshi), the FBI with their seized coins, the Winklevoss brothers, DPR's missing stash, etc, lost coins like the hard drive in the land fill (6K there), plus a lot of people are holdhodling. The amount of bitcoins available on the market is far less than the 12 million in existence.

The coins that are for sale now are not on for the same price. At the time of writing, on Mt.Gox there is $30million worth of bitcoin available for sale. You will get BTC28400. The price would be pushed to up to $4500/BTC. Of course, you can do it across many exchanges, but to sink even with 50-60 million into bitcoins would either take a long time, and/or would push the price up noticeably, and you won't get 100K BTC

Accumulating a position of BTC1,000,000 without being noticed is nigh on impossible. It will take a long time, you will need a lot of cash because the cost will rise.

Thousands? May be, hence I voted yes. Even some investment companies are doing it. Hundreds of thousands? No.

Except for seizures, like TonyOliver said.

The US have a nice reserve, courtesy of the Silk Road shut down ;)

I don't think so, although I guess anything is possible. Recently a municipality in Finland wanted to invest some money in the national lottery (yes, playing lotto)... there was some discussion but it was, sadly, illegal to do that. I bet the people are happy to have such wise people in control of their tax money.
Well, that was off-topic but I wanted to share that with you anyway. Forgot that the US has now some BTC from the Silk Road, so I guess that's a partial "yes" to your question.

i was thinking something along the same lins.. considering that the U.S. has been printing $85 billion per month, if they could just throw maybe 1% of that for 1 year... that'd double the value of bitcoins.

I really don't think governments will buy bitcoins until they cost $10k each. By then the writing will be on the wall for fiat systems, and they will want to hedge against a crypto future.

Has the US managed to access the vast majority of the funds seized from the silk road? I heard that the FBI was holding 1.5% of all bitcoins in existence? Can anyone verify or debunk that?

lol it's not 1.5% but it is a lot I thought it was something like 240,000 BTC from what I saw on articles, definitely a lot but the problem is they haven't been able to access most of it because the wallet is passworded.

as there are 11 million bitcoins - and you suggest the FBI have 240,000 - that would make it 2.18% if my maths are correct.

So I guess we can put USA to the list of countries secretly holding bitcoins as a reserve. Probably other, smaller countries are holding BTC as well.

Germany is holding at least 1 million Euros in Bitcoin. I dont know of any other high profile seizures. Was there one in Ireland yesterday - a silk road 2 admin????? Anywho, most of these bitcoin funds will not be held by the treasuries of nationstates - they will be held by their respective spy agencies. It represents a great way for spy agencies to remain unaccountable to the citizens they are supposed to be protecting.

no way they have access to them. they can say they need to keep the bitcoins in the account for evidence. but the blockchain has the history and they have the servers. they have all the evidence they need. they wouldnt risk him being able to move them. If he remembered the private key he could tell it to the lawyer a few characters at a time... if he trusted him enough to move them.

so i call bs on the fbi having access to anything other then the hot wallet.

lol - like the NSA have no idea how to crack passwords ;)

When the government seizes computers holding a lot of coins and they have access to them, why wouldn't they use them? As long as the coins hold value, they can be used for anything that needs to be covert

Didn't the FBI say they were going to sell them off?

Do they tell the truth?  ;)

Yeah but your talking about his wallet with all his funds, the one he never needs the private key to access. if he had any idea of security he wouldnt have it with an easy password, let alone somewhere they could get the wallet file.


They could sell the coins to themselves... secretly :D would be the epitome of stupidity if they sold them.

If you have a password like this (https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm) it will take the NSA an infinite amount of time to crack it.

Enjoy!

:D

With a traditional computer that is essentially true - but couldn't a quantum computer perform an infinite amount of computations in a finite time? Or have I misunderstood the principle of quantum computing. I wouldn't put it past the NSA having this technology. Alternatively they may have a back door into the current encryption method - which is probably worth more to them not to reveal. 

For  quantum computing, not true. It can still only do finite work depending on the computer's design, and there still aren't large enugh quantum computers to do SHA256 and mining.

As for SHA being broken, SHA is nothing like Skipjack. It got independently validated.

DPR will not get released  if he refuses to give up the rest of the coins
or the passwords to the wallets already seized

i dont think hes in much of a position to haggle with the 5 or 6
murder charges they tacked on as well as everything else

the judge will not let him come out to 500,000+ btc

that would be like a bank robber getting to keep the stolen  money
to enjoy when he gets out :)

The recent China dump was a deliberate act of market manipulation by the Chinks to lower BTC price and allow China to add to its reserves... FACT!

Any country lumbered with USD will be unofficially buying BTC

I'd actually think it would be the later countries, the ones with a lot of money and "spare" cash, who might already be accumulating bitcoin just in case.  I know that china doesn't have to divulge what their assets are but I think the fed has to, don't they?

You need to get your facts straight. China simply wanted to keep bitcoin separate from the banks and their fiat currency. When you put your fiat money do you really know what happens to it? Do you know the long-term damage that is caused to the government and the banking system when you take your fiat money out and put it into a digital currency like bitcoin? It doesn't sound like you do otherwise you wouldn't be making this accusations about China.

Banks aren't going to go down without a fight, expect to see more of this around the world and at the same time the media outlets reporting as they want you to see it an hear it but not what really is going on. :)

This is why I don't rarely watch the news on the TV, and see why now with the control the media has over people like yourself why the "wealthy" not the "rich" are raised without a TV.

 

I agree that China has a lot more to lose from allowing bitcoins in the mainstream as they threaten the very fabric of the governments control structure. However, that doesn't mean they aren't hedging their bets. Who wouldn't?

I would not be surprised at all if Chinese govt is diverting some of their USD holdings into BTC as we speak, at cheap prices of course, under 600

After that they will permit moderate BTC business in China again. This will result in 1000+ BTC which would mean that stupid bears have sent their USD straight to China  ;D

I wonder if there is any animosity regarding the fact the creator has a Japanese name - they aren't the best of friends the Chinese and Japanese.

OK, welcome to the forums glad you made it. So please dont take this the wrong way:

You need to read more on here (lurk) and use the search function before you start posting these brain farts of yours all over the place.

All of these points you mentioned have been discussed ad nauseam on BTCTalk. By people with IQs much higher than you or me.

BTCTalk is a great place to learn and remember what being a student is like:

Be quiet in class, listen carefully to the teachers and smart kids and DO YOUR HOMEWORK!  ;D

Well he wasn't very smart in several areas, that was clear, so I doubt his password was "all that"

Sorry buddy, could you re-phrase this rambling gibberish into a succinct and coherent arguement?

I restate: The Chinks deliberately manipulated the Bitcoin market recently so they could add it to their reserves... still a FACT!

why would they need too 

the chinese goverment could buy every  coin in the exchanges if they wanted to
the fed is not the only one who can print shitloads of cash with nothing behind it lol
there would be no need to crash the price to get it cheaper for the likes of the chinese govt 

One could argue the USA already has a substantial amount of BTC @ the FBI.

Already made that point earlier in the thread :)

+ pirate@40 surely will have his coins confiscated when he gets to court for the BTCST

thats a very sustancial number  cominbined with the missing silk rd wallets if DPR ever gives them up

probably get waterboarded for them. nobody can stand that

would not be a bit surprised if they  throw him in a really  hardcore   prison where stuff like beatings or gangrape happens daily  until he gives the coins up and gets moved somewhere with a bit more protection ........

if i were him id probably give them the coins  but as soon as he does that hes lost his only bargaining chips
its a tough decision .....
theyre going to throw the book at him anyway for making them look silly for all the  years they were unable to catch him

Alas, it appears that BTCST was a bitcoin-denominated Ponzi. As such, new investment was rolled into 'profits' for older investors. Consequently, little if any XBT is likely to remain.

I wish it were otherwise - I'd be ecstatic with even pennies on the dollar.

even if it was a ponzi ,many people didnt have time to withdraw anything
there shoud still be some surplus of coins if not the 500-700k btc  that some
people say was "invested"

others say there is only 230k btc when it imploded but surely these coins along
with the 640k btc  from all the silk rd wallets is nearly a million btc if not more

if these numbers are anywhere near accurate the us govt maybe in control of over 8%
of all the bitcoins mined so far .......from just these two guys

The best method is still a market crushing news flash so the chinks can buy out panicking yanks....

The Chinese couldn't buy every bitcoin in existence as their purchasing program would affect the market - making the last bitcoin not owned by them incredibly valuable.

Think about it.

wishful thinking would be a YES, but the truth is that NO country has added BTC to their reserve  :(

Except the USA and Germany and Ireland who have all seized them from the proceeds of crime as discussed earlier in this thread.

He'll give the coins up in the spirit of co-operation i.e. attempt at sentence reduction. probably no waterboarding needed in reality ;)

He wants to keep them apparently

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/23/silk-road-bitcoin-30-million_n_4493150.html  

It's an interesting stance really - if they do keep them - they legitimise them as a real asset.

Says "he wants them back". Well that means he's given them up already  ???

they might have his laptop showing the coin balance  but not the password  to spend the coins ?

yeah, quite likely, could do with some clarity on this. Its intriguing

i believe he has travelled around the world in the years silk rd was running  and was applying for a new
citizenship in another country when they caught him

he could easily have left a cd or usb key  in a foreign country with a few encrypted wallet files on it while travelling

its not difficult to rent a safe  deposit box or even a mailbox  in many  countries with just cash which maybe where the
other 500,000 btc are  :D

nope not yet !!!

that was a bit harsh...we need to welcome people nicely, also it is perhaps a fault of this forum not to have a faq board with all the popular questions linked in threads......then we would avoid a lot of these issues, and I mean its not like this forum is underfunded....

according to the techchrunch story yesterday, his lawyers were asking for the coins *back*, so lord only knows what is actually occurring.

i think the 140,000 coins were the from  SR escrow wallet belonging to the customers and sellers (not DPRs wages )
investigators  have the transaction history of SR so
they  say  DPR made around  650,000 btc in his three years

he was likely the richest  man in the btc world bar satoshi

650,000 btc in "wages" - omg - he should have quit whilst he was ahead ..........

china not!
fuck china!

Care to expand your essay?

I don't think he needs too. His bold statement completely explains his opinion to the level of his intelligence. ;)

yes，i think china do it now

Yes In my opinion countries must be getting their hands on bitcoins as it is the currency of modern times. Those countries which are speaking against bitcoins shall soon bang their hand that why didn’t they started piling up bitcoins into states reserve. After all bitcoin has a prosperous future. 

I'd love to hear some more pearls of wisdom from him :)

I appreciate his point. However ineloquently he made it.

 'First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.#ChinaNot #FuckChina #bitcoin'

Sorry, I must be thick. How have we won against China?

china heled bitcoin reach an altime high $1250 usd
so it was on tv every day for sbout 10 days

who cares if theyre not using it in china anymore ? we till benefitted from their involvement from all the free advertsising
and btc is stronger now than ever and back at $800

But we'd probably be at $1500+ if China was still "happening".

Don't follow the logic, sorry. Potentially the biggest bitcoin market in the world disappears and we should be rejoicing? Don't see it.

we are still higher  than we would have been if  china had  never entered the market ,risen it and then pulled out

of  course it would  be better if they stayed in but its their loss that they didnt

True, we are higher now, but that's still because of all the coins the Chinese have bought.

When the government of a country the size of China clamps down, its bad for all of us, not just China. We want this to be a way of remitting money worlwide don't we?