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Title: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 09:04:25 AM Once it hits 0.00008+, I'm out. Forever. Here's why:
There are around 70 odd 'donors/ founders/ whatever you call them who hold 4,000,000 Nxt each (probably more). That only equals 280,000,000 Nxt, where is the rest???? Good question. Even with just these 70 individuals (excluding the 3/4 of Nxt which is probably in the hands of a smaller group of anonymous donors/ founders/ whatever you call them) they all have the opportunity to make 399 BTC at 0.0001 BTC from a 1 BTC investment. Even if you could buy at the absolute low of 0.00005 (which it isn't at), you only have the chance to double your money, but why would you want the risk to merely double your money with these HUGE whales lurking? Better yet, if it went to 0.001, they would have 3990 worth of BTC to dump, so forth. This coin has NO future potential due to the poor distribution of the coins. There are 70 reasons (probably more) to be scared every time the price goes up. At least Ripple is governed by one organisation and not a group of lucky investors which are looking to become overnight millionaires. They are just dumping their stashes on the highs, creating panic and a massive price drop and then buying back at a much cheaper price. Rinse and repeat. The price will never go anywhere and it has been highly manipulated from the start. If you don't think you were played and you are still singing the 'let me line the donor's pockets with millions because they deserve it for the risk' chant, here's a scenario which probably got you into Nxt in the first place. The great price pump of late December. Two weeks ago when that pump was happening, practically ALL of the Nxt was held internally. The developers were basically selling to themselves to artificially increase the price. When all of the volume is coming from a small group of people, who in their right mind thinks this market is not being manipulated? The bag holders know the price will go down and they are cashing out now on suckers to buy back later for cheap. Rinse and repeat. All day I have been watching large buy walls get demolished. We are talking 500k walls and so on. Those poor people are now stuck at that price point while the greedy few buy back a lot cheaper for more carnage. TOPIC BREAKDOWN FOR THE LAYMEN: - The source code was a joke - The price is crashing due to major manipulation efforts and lack of confidence - Any 'decent' profit now will make the donors extremely wealthy - 3/4 of Nxt is not accounted for Disclaimer: I own 50,000+ Nxt which will soon be GONE! I want out! Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: _gnasher_ on January 06, 2014, 09:09:08 AM You're an idiot for buying in the first place then, nothing has changed.
The only people selling are those stakeholders, providing supply to the market - everyone can see that NXT (and POS) is the future of cryptos. Please do sell so I can pick some up cheaply! Also, everyone had an opportunity to get involved at the beginning. Unfortunately I didn't, so am now having to pay a premium. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 09:13:34 AM You're an idiot for buying in the first place then, nothing has changed. The only people selling are those stakeholders, providing supply to the market - everyone can see that NXT (and POS) is the future of cryptos. Please do sell so I can pick some up cheaply! Also, everyone had an opportunity to get involved at the beginning. Unfortunately I didn't, so am now having to pay a premium. Lol have fun lining the pockets of the few who did donate. Nxt will NEVER bring you any decent profit when .001 means 3999 BTC for 70+ people. Keep up the optimism and ignoring obvious signs of a financial failure. Good way to lose money. Bravo! Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: _gnasher_ on January 06, 2014, 09:25:01 AM You're an idiot for buying in the first place then, nothing has changed. The only people selling are those stakeholders, providing supply to the market - everyone can see that NXT (and POS) is the future of cryptos. Please do sell so I can pick some up cheaply! Also, everyone had an opportunity to get involved at the beginning. Unfortunately I didn't, so am now having to pay a premium. Lol have fun lining the pockets of the few who did donate. Nxt will NEVER bring you any decent profit when .001 means 3999 BTC for 70+ people. Keep up the optimism and ignoring obvious signs of a financial failure. Good way to lose money. Bravo! It's the same with most coins. E.g. >50% of Bitcoin is held by <1000 people. And other cryptos are even worse. Yes, the stakeholders will make a killing. But I also think that this is only the beginning for NXT. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: roozifus on January 06, 2014, 09:25:41 AM The fact that early adopters get rich is true of all cryptos.
The distribution concerns are real though, but if btc keeps going through the roof it probably won't matter, people will throw enough money into everything that nxt will still do very well because people want to diversify and nxt is reasonably unique (at least compared to the standard alts). Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: laowai80 on January 06, 2014, 09:29:32 AM I want out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Jbrz9WaKU Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: dimiro on January 06, 2014, 09:33:36 AM I guess thats the 'benefit' of any recent crypto.
Why spending years working on the same job day by day when you can launch crypto and in few months make a fortune? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 09:34:09 AM Look I agree with you both but that distribution is completely bullshit. I wanted to ignore it because the name, logo and everything was fine but at the end of the day when I did my profit calculations, it is a losing battle. There is simply too few people holding millions of Nxt. Any small gain for me is a HUGE gain for them (as outlined in my OP). Us buying Nxt is just making these individuals filthy rich. One already cleared his stash at 0.00012. Do you really think he didn't buy back in on that crash and will just do it all over again? OF COURSE HE WILL, he just DOUBLED his money from making hundreds of BTC. And there are many many others like him, just wait for it. Where is the unaccounted 3/4 of all Nxt, this is a really sham. Even for crypto.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: de3mka on January 06, 2014, 09:59:59 AM The problem is you don't see a full picture.. if the 'donors' could dump all coins at once, they couldn't cuz there would not be enough demand for NXT on exchange. So what is happening now is steady decrease of their stash to newcomers.. which gives you the distribution. If you only look for profit, probably this coin is not for you since it bets on feature richness. Who understands the potential behind those features will win in the end.
Also I have analyzed the top addresses and the total coins owned by them is slowly decreasing: 27.12.2013 79.36% 28.12.2013 79.16% 29.12.2013 78.34% 2.1.2014 66.48% 3.1.2014 77.39% 6.1.2014 75.64% Keeping track further on numbers. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: dzarmush on January 06, 2014, 10:00:47 AM blah blah blah, another pathetic troll
who is in his mind would tell everyone his gonna dump before he did it Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 06, 2014, 10:07:08 AM Early-adopters must be rewarded for the risk they take.
It is the same for all crypto, it is the same for everything you do in your life. Stop being mad at them, move on. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 10:09:29 AM The problem is you don't see a full picture.. if the 'donors' could dump all coins at once, they couldn't cuz there would not be enough demand for NXT on exchange. So what is happening now is steady decrease of their stash to newcomers.. which gives you the distribution. If you only look for profit, probably this coin is not for you since it bets on feature richness. Who understands the potential behind those features will win in the end. Also I have analyzed the top addresses and the total coins owned by them is slowly decreasing: 27.12.2013 79.36% 28.12.2013 79.16% 29.12.2013 78.34% 2.1.2014 66.48% 3.1.2014 77.39% 6.1.2014 75.64% Keeping track further on numbers. Which is exactly my point. This coin will never move up in value as the huge bagholders will constantly be cleaning up. As you made apparent in your analysis and like I said in the OP. They are dumping on the high >0.0001 which causes the price to panic and then they buy back in at half the cost. Exactly why there was an increase from Jan 2nd. You displayed it yourself. The price will never move because any kind of rally will be providing the demand needed to cash out. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: sixteendigits on January 06, 2014, 10:11:05 AM I dumped mine, not because I was mad at those mean greedy 'ole early adopters who risked BTC when no when else would and now have the gall to not just hand their coins out (sarcasm in case you couldn't tell) but because the source code was finally released and word is it is a mess.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 10:13:02 AM Early-adopters must be rewarded for the risk they take. It is the same for all crypto, it is the same for everything you do in your life. Stop being mad at them, move on. I'm giving the pure trading perspective, if anyone is looking to profit from this coin. Because no one will at this price and if they do it will be peanuts compared to the donors. Let me guess, you donated 1 BTC? Congratulations for making hundreds of thousands from idiots. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: slavo on January 06, 2014, 10:13:56 AM blah blah blah, another pathetic troll who is in his mind would tell everyone his gonna dump before he did it when u are dumping 0.00000000% of a coin, i assume you can scream that u are dumping without giving a fuck Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 10:16:03 AM I dumped mine, not because I was mad at those mean greedy 'ole early adopters who risked BTC when no when else would and now have the gall to not just hand their coins out (sarcasm in case you couldn't tell) but because the source code was finally released and word is it is a mess. No I am astonished that more people have not done their due diligence before investing. The market is being manipulated and there is no room for significant profit due to a group of individuals holding a LARGE proportion of Nxt. These are the facts. Sorry if you feel mad. Take it as a buyer beware topic. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: nastybit on January 06, 2014, 10:17:24 AM Early-adopters must be rewarded for the risk they take. It is the same for all crypto, it is the same for everything you do in your life. Stop being mad at them, move on. I'm giving the pure trading perspective, if anyone is looking to profit from this coin. Because no one will at this price and if they do it will be peanuts compared to the donors. Let me guess, you donated 1 BTC? Congratulations for making hundreds of thousands from idiots. As many (including me) said already for some time, IPO are as scam as all the rest, just a different type No point on support them and trade for small profit where stakeholders can dump on you at their wish.. Thanks for the heads up anyway :-) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 10:20:15 AM Early-adopters must be rewarded for the risk they take. It is the same for all crypto, it is the same for everything you do in your life. Stop being mad at them, move on. I'm giving the pure trading perspective, if anyone is looking to profit from this coin. Because no one will at this price and if they do it will be peanuts compared to the donors. Let me guess, you donated 1 BTC? Congratulations for making hundreds of thousands from idiots. As many (including me) said already for some time, IPO are as scam as all the rest, just a different type No point on support them and trade for small profit where stakeholders can dump on you at their wish.. Thanks for the heads up anyway :-) Wow someone who isn't brainwashed and not chanting "donors deserve millions because of their risk, donors deserve millions because of their risk..." drone talk. Thank you for being intelligent. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: dzarmush on January 06, 2014, 10:22:22 AM blah blah blah, another pathetic troll who is in his mind would tell everyone his gonna dump before he did it when u are dumping 0.00000000% of a coin, i assume you can scream that u are dumping without giving a fuck so why the fuck do you care if you have 0.000000? you care only if you're trying to dump the price and buy low, that's what happening right now in the main thread and on the Nxt forum, lots on accounts with 1-3 posts tell everyone that the crash is coming and everything is so bad so bad that it just couldn't be worse Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: slavo on January 06, 2014, 10:29:35 AM as he said, use ur brain.
I bought 1.2Mnxt for 0.02btc. I let you do the math on my ROI, is it plausible to have that ROI without having smartass buyers who don't know that 2+2=4. When some of the top account will dump; u will say WTF on the main thread, and everyone involved will tell you that it's normal when everyone outside will just watch. I assume you will believe the nxt community members ? POS are maybe the future, but not if distributed like that. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: dzarmush on January 06, 2014, 10:35:25 AM as he said, use ur brain. I bought 1.2Mnxt for 0.02btc. I let you do the math on my ROI, is it plausible to have that ROI without having smartass buyers who don't know that 2+2=4. When some of the top account will dump; u will say WTF on the main thread, and everyone involved will tell you that it's normal when everyone outside will just watch. I assume you will believe the nxt community members ? POS are maybe the future, but not if distributed like that. 1. show the proof or gtfo 2. most people paid close to nothing for BTC or LTC or whatever, so what? i bought ltc and sold 4 times more expensive, the same with qrk and zet and now is a great time to buy some nxt before it released on cryptsy and other exchanges, someone will make a small fortune if he buy now instead of bithing about initial stakeholders profit Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: luckygenough56 on January 06, 2014, 10:36:33 AM lol at this when i see people jumping on any new NXT copycats, sending BTC like crazy to be among the first holders. You're against NXT just because you don't get in early. That's the game, all cryptos are working like that, more or less, deal with it. Seriously, you just frustrated, that's an obvious human feeling. If you were to get NXT early, you would promote it like crazy. Predictable joke polemists.
If you want to be rich stakeholder, just do ur coin and get rewarded, that's normal. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Viperbass on January 06, 2014, 10:36:41 AM All I know is that if 2nd Gen currencies make it, 3rd Gen will be virtual replacement of our current fiat banking system. Seems like some people want control to be centralized.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: _gnasher_ on January 06, 2014, 10:37:19 AM WORST case scenario, it's dumped down to 0.000001BTC/NXT by all the stakeholders. Or it spends the next few months at a 08 resistance. All that is going to happen is that the original NXT will be re-distributed amongs 1000s of individuals. At which point it will rise. This isn't a coin to trade, it's one to invest in.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 10:38:03 AM There are loads of puppet accounts trying to make people feel this is all legit and that they will make big because history repeats itself, right? Wrong.
Two weeks ago when that pump was happening, practically ALL of the Nxt was held internally. The developers were practically selling to themselves to artificially increase the price. When all of the volume is coming from a small group of people, who in their right mind thinks this market is not being manipulated? The bag holders know the price will go down and they are cashing out now on suckers to buy back later for cheap. Rinse and repeat. All day I have been watching large buy walls get demolished. We are talking 500k walls and so on. Those poor people are now stuck at that price point while the greedy few buy back a lot cheaper for more carnage. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: KingGoon on January 06, 2014, 10:50:53 AM I been thinking about selling half or more my self but the problem now is the fees for BTC withdrawals :'( BTC withdrawals: 1.4% to 2.8% Just terrible!!!
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Vega on January 06, 2014, 10:56:42 AM How about we look at the OPs posts about Nxt price in chronological order:
tl;dr: NWO is trying to manipulate the price all the time. Considering there is ONE BILLION coins dispersed among a small number of unknowns who for whatever reason cannot give their true identity (unlike Ripple or eMunie). VERY high chance of being scammed. The market is being manipulated to create a frenzy - which is sadly working. So many people about to get burned... I've been trying to login to dgex for 30 minutes now to dump as there is going to be a BIG crash from all of the 1,000,000+ holders looking to clean up on the late comers. Now it has been removed from coinmarketcap.com What is going on? Did the unknown developers and the few investors run? Really concerned ??? What is going on with Nxt? I am trying to dump and dgex won't load due to an internal error. Anyone else getting this? It is annoying because the price is snowballing. January 3rd is the official launch of Nxt when the open source documents are revealed. I wonder what price we will be looking at? I think around 0.0003 Edit: Price is already rallying. We have seen over 40% in a matter of days. One day closer to lift off :P The official Nxt launch is only days away :o Pump set. $1+ for 2014 set. Ready for take off! We have drawn closer, only 1-2 days depending on where you live. Price has already shot up 40%+ ;D Open source incoming! Rally has begun! Anything below .0001 is CHEAP ;D Yes, everyone. BUY BUY BUY. Open source will put this on parity with BTC! GO GO GO! And now this topic. A day from now, when price is rising, he will tell you to BUY BUY BUY. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 10:57:30 AM I been thinking about selling half or more my self but the problem now is the fees for BTC withdrawals :'( BTC withdrawals: 1.4% to 2.8% Just terrible!!! I know what you mean. I sold some at 0.0001, re-bought much lower and now looking to sell at 0.00008 but I won't be getting back in. If you do the math, it is a bad investment. Fees and price potential. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 11:00:14 AM Thanks for proving that I am legitimate. Like I said, do the math like I did today and it looks really bad. I was a large investor (still own more than 50,000) but I am looking to get out. After seeing the trends that I have been seeing, it is scary!
How about we look at the OPs posts about Nxt price in chronological order: tl;dr: NWO is trying to manipulate the price all the time. Considering there is ONE BILLION coins dispersed among a small number of unknowns who for whatever reason cannot give their true identity (unlike Ripple or eMunie). VERY high chance of being scammed. The market is being manipulated to create a frenzy - which is sadly working. So many people about to get burned... I've been trying to login to dgex for 30 minutes now to dump as there is going to be a BIG crash from all of the 1,000,000+ holders looking to clean up on the late comers. Now it has been removed from coinmarketcap.com What is going on? Did the unknown developers and the few investors run? Really concerned ??? What is going on with Nxt? I am trying to dump and dgex won't load due to an internal error. Anyone else getting this? It is annoying because the price is snowballing. January 3rd is the official launch of Nxt when the open source documents are revealed. I wonder what price we will be looking at? I think around 0.0003 Edit: Price is already rallying. We have seen over 40% in a matter of days. One day closer to lift off :P The official Nxt launch is only days away :o Pump set. $1+ for 2014 set. Ready for take off! We have drawn closer, only 1-2 days depending on where you live. Price has already shot up 40%+ ;D Open source incoming! Rally has begun! Anything below .0001 is CHEAP ;D Yes, everyone. BUY BUY BUY. Open source will put this on parity with BTC! GO GO GO! And now this topic. A day from now, when price is rising, he will tell you to BUY BUY BUY. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: drmagicblue on January 06, 2014, 11:16:26 AM Bingo OP. The market manipulation on DGEX was like nothing I've ever seen. I was stung by it a few times but ultimately managed to make a small profit and I've now sold all my NXT. I won't be buying again, no matter how low they go. Like you say, all it takes is one big dump from an early investor for the price to plummet. It makes Bitcoin look stable.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: nastybit on January 06, 2014, 11:21:25 AM Bingo OP. The market manipulation on DGEX was like nothing I've ever seen. I was stung by it a few times but ultimately managed to make a small profit and I've now sold all my NXT. I won't be buying again, no matter how low they go. Like you say, all it takes is one big dump from an early investor for the price to plummet. It makes Bitcoin look stable. It looks bitcoin look stable because it has not been premined and distributed to 70 (or less, excluding puppets) suckers. The code disclosed represents exactly how this project started, maybe a good idea very bad executed. Seriously, would you ever go to a customer with such a piece of shit? I wouldn't, I'd present it the best I can Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 11:25:56 AM Bingo OP. The market manipulation on DGEX was like nothing I've ever seen. I was stung by it a few times but ultimately managed to make a small profit and I've now sold all my NXT. I won't be buying again, no matter how low they go. Like you say, all it takes is one big dump from an early investor for the price to plummet. It makes Bitcoin look stable. I'm really regretting the investment now. I could have dumped before making this thread but there are too many clueless people who need the facts. It only took me a day of light thinking... sigh. Oh well I am still in the black (just), looking for a way out. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: solracx on January 06, 2014, 11:30:49 AM Two weeks ago when that pump was happening, practically ALL of the Nxt was held internally. The developers were basically selling to themselves to artificially increase the price. When all of the volume is coming from a small group of people, who in their right mind thinks this market is not being manipulated? Is it possible, that because the also own the exchange DGEX, that they could have pretended to have purchased NXT with fictitious BTC? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: solracx on January 06, 2014, 11:33:19 AM I been thinking about selling half or more my self but the problem now is the fees for BTC withdrawals :'( BTC withdrawals: 1.4% to 2.8% Just terrible!!! Could it be that there aren't that much BTC in DGEX? Likely, because there is only one coin in the exchange. It is hard to fake a BTC when you request a withdrawal. But if you don't then you never know if the BTC you own is real or not. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 11:36:02 AM Two weeks ago when that pump was happening, practically ALL of the Nxt was held internally. The developers were basically selling to themselves to artificially increase the price. When all of the volume is coming from a small group of people, who in their right mind thinks this market is not being manipulated? Is it possible, that because the also own the exchange DGEX, that they could have pretended to have purchased NXT with fictitious BTC? Exactly. Everyone is getting played. Well done Nxt devs, you banked and played the whole community like a well strung violin. I tilt my hat to you all. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: de3mka on January 06, 2014, 11:40:08 AM Bingo OP. The market manipulation on DGEX was like nothing I've ever seen. Date registered: 22.12.2013, 17:44:44 You should have lived through the Great Manipulator Era of Bitcoin. NXT actually does quite well so far. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 06, 2014, 12:04:50 PM OMG guys, get a life seriously.
What's the point of trolling NXT ? Getting a cheap price maybe ? Oh I see... So far, all the manipulators of NXT are trolls. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 12:14:39 PM OMG guys, get a life seriously. What's the point of trolling NXT ? Getting a cheap price maybe ? Oh I see... So far, all the manipulators of NXT are trolls. Actually it is a warning to not get duped. Of course a large bag holder like yourself would find this offensive ::) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 06, 2014, 12:16:26 PM OMG guys, get a life seriously. Actually it is a warning to not get duped. Of course a large bag holder like yourself would find this offensive ::)What's the point of trolling NXT ? Getting a cheap price maybe ? Oh I see... So far, all the manipulators of NXT are trolls. So what is your advice ? Dumping all your coin ? You call this an advice ? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 12:28:05 PM OMG guys, get a life seriously. Actually it is a warning to not get duped. Of course a large bag holder like yourself would find this offensive ::)What's the point of trolling NXT ? Getting a cheap price maybe ? Oh I see... So far, all the manipulators of NXT are trolls. So what is your advice ? Dumping all your coin ? You call this an advice ? Maybe that mask is covering your eyes but it is all in the thread why Nxt is the worst investment right now. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 06, 2014, 12:49:19 PM Actually it is a warning to not get duped. Of course a large bag holder like yourself would find this offensive ::) So what is your advice ? Dumping all your coin ? You call this an advice ?It is not what you are saying : "I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too" Terrible advice. You are trying to drive the price lower. I bought NXT at the beginning while a lot of people where saying not to do so and while some haters where DDOSing hard. What doesn't kill NXT make it stronger. I made more than 50 times my investment. My advice is to continue buying it, but it is only an advice, of course you have to do your own research ! Everything about NXT is in the damn thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619) through more than 750 pages. The rest is trolling and fantasy. EDIT : It remind me of Litecoin : Not long ago, Litecoin was going down while some people where trolling it hard. I advised people to buy it. Not long after, Litecoin jumped from 0.009 to 0.06 Turned out that all trolls where big Litecoin holder. They made a killing by fooling noobs. Read this thread as a proof. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314238.0) This is exactly what's happening here : Big holder are trying to drive the price down before the next jump. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: shinep on January 06, 2014, 01:06:12 PM I was a supporter of NXT during the early stages and got out after reading this thread last year.
https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,883.msg7215.html#msg7215 So my advise would be , if you are already in it, dont sell anything at a loss. Because the big fishes will play their manipulative game again and make sure this coin will reach new heights. With 80% holding of this coin, among a selected number of individuals and by setting up your own exchange, what would you expect? If you are newbie, trying to invest fresh, may be its worth avoiding this one. Unless all the newbies are educated about this scam, more people are going to fall prey for it and eventually get burnt. Thats my 2 cents anyways. peace. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 01:20:29 PM I was a supporter of NXT during the early stages and got out after reading this thread last year. https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,883.msg7215.html#msg7215 So my advise would be , if you are already in it, dont sell anything at a loss. Because the big fishes will play their manipulative game again and make sure this coin will reach new heights. With 80% holding of this coin, among a selected number of individuals and by setting up your own exchange, what would you expect? If you are newbie, trying to invest fresh, may be its worth avoiding this one. Unless all the newbies are educated about this scam, more people are going to fall prey for it and eventually get burnt. Thats my 2 cents anyways. peace. Great read, thank you. I think we have hit the tip of the iceberg. Just wait until the zombie army wakes up to being played instead of chanting 'donors deserve our money' rhetoric, these forums will be crazy with angry investors. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: timmyd on January 06, 2014, 01:44:14 PM I was a supporter of NXT during the early stages and got out after reading this thread last year. https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,883.msg7215.html#msg7215 So my advise would be , if you are already in it, dont sell anything at a loss. Because the big fishes will play their manipulative game again and make sure this coin will reach new heights. With 80% holding of this coin, among a selected number of individuals and by setting up your own exchange, what would you expect? If you are newbie, trying to invest fresh, may be its worth avoiding this one. Unless all the newbies are educated about this scam, more people are going to fall prey for it and eventually get burnt. Thats my 2 cents anyways. peace. Great read, thank you. I think we have hit the tip of the iceberg. Just wait until the zombie army wakes up to being played instead of chanting 'donors deserve our money' rhetoric, these forums will be crazy with angry investors. My advice would be to research for yourself dont listen to this goon. He knows nothing. All the coins on here are risky. But what i do know is 90% of all the coins listed here are copy clones of btc and lite coin designed to be oumped and dumped. NXT is different a while new concept. The op here is pissed cos he wasnt in at the start. Well if he actually knows anything ask hime qhich coin is a good investment at the minute. He wont be able to tell you because there all pump and dumps. Dont waste your time reading troll spew like this thread come over to the nxt thread and read for yourselves. We have a comunity all these other scam coins are crying out for. Nxt will succeed and this guy will be sorry. I promise you Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: PinkPotatos on January 06, 2014, 01:50:02 PM dem feels
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: lyynx on January 06, 2014, 04:58:49 PM I dumped mine, not because I was mad at those mean greedy 'ole early adopters who risked BTC when no when else would and now have the gall to not just hand their coins out (sarcasm in case you couldn't tell) but because the source code was finally released and word is it is a mess. I must provide a bit of a correction as I have been following the code review thread and your statement about the source code being a mess does not hold water. The fact of the matter is the code that was released on the 3rd had 3 purposely placed security flaws placed in it and the individuals to find them will receive a bounty. As of last night, when I last viewed the thread, not one flaw had been discovered yet, and like I said, there are 3 there on purpose. We're talking 3 flaws on purpose (bugs are a completely different thing and are unavoidable in coding - right Microsoft? lol) and experienced developers are having trouble finding them. Now, if we are discussing how the code looks, that is completely irrelevant as now you are getting into a discussion of form before function and vice versa. I take function over form any day. Trust me, I have fired the best code // commenters in the world. Here's a simple fact, BCNext managed to do what Bitcoin Network does with approx. 4,000 (out of 6,800) lines of java. Brilliant. Nxt Source Code Flaw Reports https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0) Nxt Source Code Analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: solracx on January 06, 2014, 05:03:44 PM I dumped mine, not because I was mad at those mean greedy 'ole early adopters who risked BTC when no when else would and now have the gall to not just hand their coins out (sarcasm in case you couldn't tell) but because the source code was finally released and word is it is a mess. I must provide a bit of a correction as I have been following the code review thread and your statement about the source code being a mess does not hold water. The fact of the matter is the code that was released on the 3rd had 3 purposely placed security flaws placed in it and the individuals to find them will receive a bounty. As of last night, when I last viewed the thread, not one flaw had been discovered yet, and like I said, there are 3 there on purpose. We're talking 3 flaws on purpose (bugs are a completely different thing and are unavoidable in coding - right Microsoft? lol) and experienced developers are having trouble finding them. Now, if we are discussing how the code looks, that is completely irrelevant as now you are getting into a discussion of form before function and vice versa. I take function over form any day. Trust me, I have fired the best code // commenters in the world. Here's a simple fact, BCNext managed to do what Bitcoin Network does with approx. 4,000 (out of 6,800) lines of java. Brilliant. Nxt Source Code Flaw Reports https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0) Nxt Source Code Analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0) Wow... what a load of B.S. The code is a mess, a lot of folks have found a lot of other bugs that were in it outside of the fictitious bugs they claim to have 'injected'. In fact there are several serious bugs that were indentified that can pontentially kill the coin. The biggest one is the lack of use of a databse to hold the block chain. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Kungfucheez on January 06, 2014, 05:17:49 PM I was a supporter of NXT during the early stages and got out after reading this thread last year. https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,883.msg7215.html#msg7215 So my advise would be , if you are already in it, dont sell anything at a loss. Because the big fishes will play their manipulative game again and make sure this coin will reach new heights. With 80% holding of this coin, among a selected number of individuals and by setting up your own exchange, what would you expect? If you are newbie, trying to invest fresh, may be its worth avoiding this one. Unless all the newbies are educated about this scam, more people are going to fall prey for it and eventually get burnt. Thats my 2 cents anyways. peace. Great read, thank you. I think we have hit the tip of the iceberg. Just wait until the zombie army wakes up to being played instead of chanting 'donors deserve our money' rhetoric, these forums will be crazy with angry investors. Most obvious question is, why do people care so much about what other people do? Just sounds like you're trying to sell something by telling people they're being scammed. People will find out for themselves when the time comes, otherwise you're just telling people your opinion, which means absolute shit. Title: Thread: Main Post by: ZeroTheGreat on January 06, 2014, 05:32:17 PM And my advice for %username% is: develop strategy. Which profit do u seek? Which risks ar u willing to take? After carefully thinked and rethinked scenario buy/sell at prepared points and don't regret about anything.
Like in every game, in trading (we're not talking about investitions here, cos "selling at future point" was taken, trully investition goes forever, if it's stable itself, ofc; future selling only comes with speculator's business) STRATEGY comes first. Develop yours and stick with it. Don't change it in a middle of a game, if nothing really dangerous happening. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: de3mka on January 06, 2014, 05:40:37 PM a lot of folks have found a lot of other bugs that were in it outside of the fictitious bugs they claim to have 'injected'. In fact there are several serious bugs that were indentified that can pontentially kill the coin. The biggest one is the lack of use of a databse to hold the block chain. Source please? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: hypostatization on January 06, 2014, 05:46:30 PM Has anyone produced data charting the distribution of NXT over time?
It would be nice to have a better picture of the impact that its launch and daily trading has had on distribution. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 06, 2014, 05:56:48 PM Which is exactly my point. This coin will never move up in value as the huge bagholders will constantly be cleaning up. The price will never move because any kind of rally will be providing the demand needed to cash out. I'm not an initial founder, but 3 weeks ago I bought some NXT for 0.000005 as the ideas behind it struck me as brilliant, and now I'm sitting on a 10x value increase. People said the same then. How is your thread not just speculation? It's the features that NXT has to offer that will drive up the demand and thus the price. If you believe it or not, the client code will be cleaned up, a simpler client will come out, more innovative features will be added, what do you think will happen to the price? ;) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: relm9 on January 06, 2014, 06:01:25 PM When people start making these 'it's time to get out' threads it usually means a good buying opportunity.
NXT has a huge community compared to other coins, it's worth seeing how it all plays out. If you invested more than you feel comfortable with, then sure, it may be a good idea to sell. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: gorgorom on January 06, 2014, 06:39:35 PM You're an idiot for buying in the first place then, nothing has changed. The only people selling are those stakeholders, providing supply to the market - everyone can see that NXT (and POS) is the future of cryptos. Please do sell so I can pick some up cheaply! Also, everyone had an opportunity to get involved at the beginning. Unfortunately I didn't, so am now having to pay a premium. Lol have fun lining the pockets of the few who did donate. Nxt will NEVER bring you any decent profit when .001 means 3999 BTC for 70+ people. Keep up the optimism and ignoring obvious signs of a financial failure. Good way to lose money. Bravo! I donated 0.05BTC when BCNext started, and when it released made over 20BTC the first day. I regret not holding now... Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: luckygenough56 on January 06, 2014, 06:43:31 PM the op just want prices to go down to buy haha
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: klee on January 06, 2014, 07:20:00 PM I dumped mine, not because I was mad at those mean greedy 'ole early adopters who risked BTC when no when else would and now have the gall to not just hand their coins out (sarcasm in case you couldn't tell) but because the source code was finally released and word is it is a mess. I must provide a bit of a correction as I have been following the code review thread and your statement about the source code being a mess does not hold water. The fact of the matter is the code that was released on the 3rd had 3 purposely placed security flaws placed in it and the individuals to find them will receive a bounty. As of last night, when I last viewed the thread, not one flaw had been discovered yet, and like I said, there are 3 there on purpose. We're talking 3 flaws on purpose (bugs are a completely different thing and are unavoidable in coding - right Microsoft? lol) and experienced developers are having trouble finding them. Now, if we are discussing how the code looks, that is completely irrelevant as now you are getting into a discussion of form before function and vice versa. I take function over form any day. Trust me, I have fired the best code // commenters in the world. Here's a simple fact, BCNext managed to do what Bitcoin Network does with approx. 4,000 (out of 6,800) lines of java. Brilliant. Nxt Source Code Flaw Reports https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0) Nxt Source Code Analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: subSTRATA on January 06, 2014, 08:28:46 PM The problem is you don't see a full picture.. if the 'donors' could dump all coins at once, they couldn't cuz there would not be enough demand for NXT on exchange. So what is happening now is steady decrease of their stash to newcomers.. which gives you the distribution. If you only look for profit, probably this coin is not for you since it bets on feature richness. Who understands the potential behind those features will win in the end. I agree. I have invested a lot into aliases. That feature alone is absolutely fantastic and might make me way more rich than any of big stakeholders will ever be (asuming they did not invested in aliases, at least not in "killer" ones). NXT is Bitcoin + DotCom thing in one package. Double bubble? Maybe, but definitely interesting to be a part of the deal, for very cheap (alias registration costs a mere 1 NXT, a bargain). I'm no longer looking at and whinning (much) about richess early adopters got with NXT or something else. It is counterproductive. Either wait for the next train or get the most out of the ones currently running. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: pinarello on January 06, 2014, 08:43:02 PM OP gives worst advice ever, you steal from people by giving this sort of advice.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: lyynx on January 06, 2014, 09:25:53 PM I dumped mine, not because I was mad at those mean greedy 'ole early adopters who risked BTC when no when else would and now have the gall to not just hand their coins out (sarcasm in case you couldn't tell) but because the source code was finally released and word is it is a mess. I must provide a bit of a correction as I have been following the code review thread and your statement about the source code being a mess does not hold water. The fact of the matter is the code that was released on the 3rd had 3 purposely placed security flaws placed in it and the individuals to find them will receive a bounty. As of last night, when I last viewed the thread, not one flaw had been discovered yet, and like I said, there are 3 there on purpose. We're talking 3 flaws on purpose (bugs are a completely different thing and are unavoidable in coding - right Microsoft? lol) and experienced developers are having trouble finding them. Now, if we are discussing how the code looks, that is completely irrelevant as now you are getting into a discussion of form before function and vice versa. I take function over form any day. Trust me, I have fired the best code // commenters in the world. Here's a simple fact, BCNext managed to do what Bitcoin Network does with approx. 4,000 (out of 6,800) lines of java. Brilliant. Nxt Source Code Flaw Reports https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0) Nxt Source Code Analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0) This is the best I can do regarding the question, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289807.0 Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: subSTRATA on January 06, 2014, 09:27:34 PM lol at this when i see people jumping on any new NXT copycats, sending BTC like crazy to be among the first holders. The most probable way to end up scammed at the moment. I could bet on none of those altcoins ever come into existence. It is one thing to have geniuine developer with not so good idea for IPO and it is another thing to be nothing but scammer, which is what all those new "developers" are most likely, stealing money from greedy and dumb with "Next of Next" deals. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: klee on January 06, 2014, 09:46:22 PM I dumped mine, not because I was mad at those mean greedy 'ole early adopters who risked BTC when no when else would and now have the gall to not just hand their coins out (sarcasm in case you couldn't tell) but because the source code was finally released and word is it is a mess. I must provide a bit of a correction as I have been following the code review thread and your statement about the source code being a mess does not hold water. The fact of the matter is the code that was released on the 3rd had 3 purposely placed security flaws placed in it and the individuals to find them will receive a bounty. As of last night, when I last viewed the thread, not one flaw had been discovered yet, and like I said, there are 3 there on purpose. We're talking 3 flaws on purpose (bugs are a completely different thing and are unavoidable in coding - right Microsoft? lol) and experienced developers are having trouble finding them. Now, if we are discussing how the code looks, that is completely irrelevant as now you are getting into a discussion of form before function and vice versa. I take function over form any day. Trust me, I have fired the best code // commenters in the world. Here's a simple fact, BCNext managed to do what Bitcoin Network does with approx. 4,000 (out of 6,800) lines of java. Brilliant. Nxt Source Code Flaw Reports https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397183.0) Nxt Source Code Analysis https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=397214.0) This is the best I can do regarding the question, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289807.0 bitcoin-0.1.0 - 12,222 lines nxt - 4,000 lines x3 more efficient hmmm... NXT @3000USD? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: ymer on January 06, 2014, 09:58:41 PM It's easy to spot the NXT holders in this thread.
Are you too afraid to be bag holders? if you are so sure about the future of NXT just ignore the so called "trolls" ::) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 06, 2014, 10:18:26 PM Which is exactly my point. This coin will never move up in value as the huge bagholders will constantly be cleaning up. The price will never move because any kind of rally will be providing the demand needed to cash out. I'm not an initial founder, but 3 weeks ago I bought some NXT for 0.000005 as the ideas behind it struck me as brilliant, and now I'm sitting on a 10x value increase. People said the same then. How is your thread not just speculation? It's the features that NXT has to offer that will drive up the demand and thus the price. If you believe it or not, the client code will be cleaned up, a simpler client will come out, more innovative features will be added, what do you think will happen to the price? ;) So you're saying it could go to 0.0005? With 70+ KNOWN people that have 4,000,000 Nxt they would have a chance to cash out for 1995 BTC making them millionaires. No this is the LIMIT. Think about how many people will be jumping over each other to sell off and become millionaires. There is a reason why the price could not hold .0001 . Did you even read the OP? Do the calculations next time. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Edward50 on January 06, 2014, 10:52:18 PM I'm out of NXT also.
I was smart enough to cash out everything at .00013, making over 20x my original purchase at .00000550. Although I lost some of it buying back in at .00009 thinking it would go back up after the source code release. So I lost a little bit selling out at .00007. The coin is way over valued at this point in time, even at .000058. The other thing is I am going to invest the money in Emunie, which is a 2nd generation coin and will have a fair distribution by having a pre-buy where everyone can buy in equally. I would feel better investing my money in a coin where everyone bought in at the same price. Why invest in NXT, when you have major stake holders holding all the coins. Does anyone else think Emunie is a good place to invest your money? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: traderCJ on January 07, 2014, 12:01:48 AM I'm out of NXT also. I was smart enough to cash out everything at .00013, making over 20x my original purchase at .00000550. Although I lost some of it buying back in at .00009 thinking it would go back up after the source code release. So I lost a little bit selling out at .00007. The coin is way over valued at this point in time, even at .000058. The other thing is I am going to invest the money in Emunie, which is a 2nd generation coin and will have a fair distribution by having a pre-buy where everyone can buy in equally. I would feel better investing my money in a coin where everyone bought in at the same price. Why invest in NXT, when you have major stake holders holding all the coins. Does anyone else think Emunie is a good place to invest your money? I'm also out, having enjoyed a 20x gain as well. I figured the source code release would cause a dip. The only thing a code release will do is unleash FUD in the short term. NXT long term is anyone's guess. My hunch is it won't go too far. Not only are you fighting the usual anti crypto people but you're fighting Bitcoin for marketshare as well. The name of the game with the alts is get in low, get out high, and move on to the next one. Just my 2 satoshis. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Edward50 on January 07, 2014, 12:15:18 AM I'm out of NXT also. I was smart enough to cash out everything at .00013, making over 20x my original purchase at .00000550. Although I lost some of it buying back in at .00009 thinking it would go back up after the source code release. So I lost a little bit selling out at .00007. The coin is way over valued at this point in time, even at .000058. The other thing is I am going to invest the money in Emunie, which is a 2nd generation coin and will have a fair distribution by having a pre-buy where everyone can buy in equally. I would feel better investing my money in a coin where everyone bought in at the same price. Why invest in NXT, when you have major stake holders holding all the coins. Does anyone else think Emunie is a good place to invest your money? I'm also out, having enjoyed a 20x gain as well. I figured the source code release would cause a dip. The only thing a code release will do is unleash FUD in the short term. NXT long term is anyone's guess. My hunch is it won't go too far. Not only are you fighting the usual anti crypto people but you're fighting Bitcoin for marketshare as well. The name of the game with the alts is get in low, get out high, and move on to the next one. Just my 2 satoshis. Exactly. The NXT coin is Emunie LOL. Fair distribution, going to have everybody buying in at the same time, who will sell at a loss? No downside risk. You outsmarted me with knowing the code release would cause a drop. I thought it would at least cause a short term spike. Anyway, those bastards at NXT got me because they decided not to sell below .00009, causing me to buy in at that point while I was waiting for it to fall below .00005. I wanted to buy in before the code release, and was waiting for it to fall even below .00005, until those stake holders decided not to sell below .00009 causing a quick rise in price. Guys, avoid NXT or you will learn your lesson also. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: klee on January 07, 2014, 12:18:07 AM eMunie eh? LOLz
Pegged currency, good luck with that! :D Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: relm9 on January 07, 2014, 05:47:37 AM I'm out of NXT also. I was smart enough to cash out everything at .00013, making over 20x my original purchase at .00000550. Although I lost some of it buying back in at .00009 thinking it would go back up after the source code release. So I lost a little bit selling out at .00007. The coin is way over valued at this point in time, even at .000058. The other thing is I am going to invest the money in Emunie, which is a 2nd generation coin and will have a fair distribution by having a pre-buy where everyone can buy in equally. I would feel better investing my money in a coin where everyone bought in at the same price. Why invest in NXT, when you have major stake holders holding all the coins. Does anyone else think Emunie is a good place to invest your money? I'm also out, having enjoyed a 20x gain as well. I figured the source code release would cause a dip. The only thing a code release will do is unleash FUD in the short term. NXT long term is anyone's guess. My hunch is it won't go too far. Not only are you fighting the usual anti crypto people but you're fighting Bitcoin for marketshare as well. The name of the game with the alts is get in low, get out high, and move on to the next one. Just my 2 satoshis. I think it was more so the DGEX issues that caused the drop, not the code release. But yes, FUD has been rampant as well. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 07, 2014, 06:01:11 AM Oh god, actually there are some donors with way more than the initial 4 million. Apparently five donors who made a bigger BTC contribution received 50 MILLION Nxt, are you kidding me Nxt zombies!?!??!! Where is the future value when these people own literally 1000's of BTC worth of Nxt. As soon as the price starts to rally up, guess who will be pooping all over you? Will you still chant your rhetoric that Nxt donors deserve thousands of BTC for their single figure BTC donation. LOL.
Get me the hell away from this scam. eMunie looks like a much safer bet. At least there is a proper economic model tied to it and it isn't written in java... Let alone the amount of work that has gone into it. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 07, 2014, 06:03:16 AM I'm out of NXT also. I was smart enough to cash out everything at .00013, making over 20x my original purchase at .00000550. Although I lost some of it buying back in at .00009 thinking it would go back up after the source code release. So I lost a little bit selling out at .00007. The coin is way over valued at this point in time, even at .000058. The other thing is I am going to invest the money in Emunie, which is a 2nd generation coin and will have a fair distribution by having a pre-buy where everyone can buy in equally. I would feel better investing my money in a coin where everyone bought in at the same price. Why invest in NXT, when you have major stake holders holding all the coins. Does anyone else think Emunie is a good place to invest your money? I did something similar. Bought low, sold around .0001 and then re-bought around .00007. Then a few patterns caught my eye and I realized everyone was being played from the get go by the few who own the majority. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 07, 2014, 08:31:55 AM You keep telling DUMP DUMP DUMP but I don't see any NXT coming.
Damn, it looks like the price won't go lower. Come on ! Dump right now or contact me. I'm buying 500K. I gave up all other altcoins, it's all shit compared to NXT. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 07, 2014, 08:41:42 AM You keep telling DUMP DUMP DUMP but I don't see any NXT coming. Damn, it looks like the price won't go lower. Come on ! Dump right now or contact me. I'm buying 500K. I gave up all other altcoins, it's all shit compared to NXT. Enjoy your java scam coin. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 07, 2014, 09:02:09 AM Enjoy your java scam coin. Enjoy missing the opportunity of your life. Here is a safer bet for you : [VSC]Visacoin:Born for circulation--based on BTC-Gold--Project start！！！ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=384097.0;all) It's new, not made in java and open to everyone. Everything you are looking for. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: klee on January 07, 2014, 11:12:13 AM Oh god, actually there are some donors with way more than the initial 4 million. Apparently five donors who made a bigger BTC contribution received 50 MILLION Nxt, are you kidding me Nxt zombies!?!??!! Where is the future value when these people own literally 1000's of BTC worth of Nxt. As soon as the price starts to rally up, guess who will be pooping all over you? Will you still chant your rhetoric that Nxt donors deserve thousands of BTC for their single figure BTC donation. LOL. :DGet me the hell away from this scam. eMunie looks like a much safer bet. At least there is a proper economic model tied to it and it isn't written in java... Let alone the amount of work that has gone into it. wtf man you are so idiot lol Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Moebius327 on January 07, 2014, 12:31:32 PM Why is DGEX the only exchange that accepts nxt? Who owns the exchange?
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 07, 2014, 01:54:12 PM Enjoy your java scam coin. Enjoy missing the opportunity of your life. Here is a safer bet for you : [VSC]Visacoin:Born for circulation--based on BTC-Gold--Project start！！！ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=384097.0;all) It's new, not made in java and open to everyone. Everything you are looking for. How's that Nxt going for you? ::) Imagine if you had just listened. This is a sinking ship. I might scoop a few mil at 0.000000000000000000002 Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: de3mka on January 07, 2014, 01:58:21 PM wow, cheap coins!! so happy :)
thanks to all bears out there.. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: shinep on January 07, 2014, 02:29:17 PM How's that Nxt going for you? ::) Imagine if you had just listened. This is a sinking ship. I might scoop a few mil at 0.000000000000000000002 1/72 of the investor got greedy and decided to f***k the other ones :) Ah well the rest 71 has to start from scratch again...time for more manipulative micro trading. lol Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 07, 2014, 02:46:08 PM How's that Nxt going for you? ::) Imagine if you had just listened. This is a sinking ship. I might scoop a few mil at 0.000000000000000000002 1/72 of the investor got greedy and decided to f***k the other ones :) Ah well the rest 71 has to start from scratch again...time for more manipulative micro trading. lol Let's hope the others panic and the price goes to 0.0000000000000000000000000002 Then we can start over with an even distribution ::) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 07, 2014, 02:51:02 PM How's that Nxt going for you? ::) 1/72 of the investor got greedy and decided to f***k the other ones :)Imagine if you had just listened. This is a sinking ship. I might scoop a few mil at 0.000000000000000000002 Ah well the rest 71 has to start from scratch again...time for more manipulative micro trading. lol Then we can start over with an even distribution ::) So if the price go lower, you admit you would invest in it right ? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 07, 2014, 02:57:57 PM How's that Nxt going for you? ::) 1/72 of the investor got greedy and decided to f***k the other ones :)Imagine if you had just listened. This is a sinking ship. I might scoop a few mil at 0.000000000000000000002 Ah well the rest 71 has to start from scratch again...time for more manipulative micro trading. lol Then we can start over with an even distribution ::) So if the price go lower, you admit you would invest in it right ? Of course, at 0.000000000000002 Aww I'm sorry, you're like the captain staying aboard the sinking ship that you have so vigorously defended over the last two days. You must be really hurting right now. BTC slipping between your fingers. It must be hard seeing all of these people agreeing with me. Whatever you do. Please don't take it out on your cat. You have been publicly displayed as an internet fool who thought he knew better than NWO. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: FrictionlessCoin on January 07, 2014, 03:01:37 PM The NXT donor list is encoded in the source code they released:
Code: long[] recipients = {(new BigInteger("163918645372308887")).longValue(),Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: luckygenough56 on January 07, 2014, 03:04:23 PM thanx for dumpin', i'm buyin'
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Edward50 on January 07, 2014, 03:08:08 PM Supposedly cryptsy won't add NXT because the NXT coin doesn't work with their client.
I knew the price would tank when I woke up, yesterday nobody was buying at .000055. Wasn't that surprised to see it at .000039. People still talking about buying cheap coins, still thinking you can profit at even .000039. Just wait a few more days and it will continue its drop even lower. There are much better investments, and Emunie is not pegged at a certain price. Nothing has been decided yet. Supposedly people think that if the price rises then new coins will be sold but a portion of those go to everyone who owns coins. Anyone buying NXT is crazy when there are much better alternatives. Code is supposedly a mess also. Uneven distribution has tainted this cone badly and for good reason as we have seen. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 07, 2014, 03:16:34 PM Supposedly cryptsy won't add NXT because the NXT coin doesn't work with their client. I knew the price would tank when I woke up, yesterday nobody was buying at .000055. Wasn't that surprised to see it at .000039. People still talking about buying cheap coins, still thinking you can profit at even .000039. Just wait a few more days and it will continue its drop even lower. There are much better investments, and Emunie is not pegged at a certain price. Nothing has been decided yet. Supposedly people think that if the price rises then new coins will be sold but a portion of those go to everyone who owns coins. Anyone buying NXT is crazy when there are much better alternatives. Code is supposedly a mess also. Uneven distribution has tainted this cone badly and for good reason as we have seen. Yeah cryptsy won't take it and dgex is a joke. It is laughable watching people defend this coin to the last bit. I can't wait until that 170 MILLION Nxt account poo's his load all over the brainless 'traders' who thinks he deserves to be a multimillionaire from 6 lines of code (assuming the largest account is the dev). If you are investing in Nxt, you might as well give up on crypto trading. Go get a 9-5. I'll be investing in true innovative systems like Ripple and eMunie. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: FrictionlessCoin on January 07, 2014, 04:09:31 PM I took one look at the source code and realized that is was a complete joke.
At least the eMunie developer took at least 6 months to develop his coin. These guys probably took a weekend. You can't have immature software that you fix on the fly while you have a ton of investors wondering what your next bandaid would mean. It is just insane! I've seen this kind of denial behavior with some of those fraudulent chinese stocks that were listed in U.S. exchanges. Its crazy how people are so steadfast with their beliefs just because they have an invested. Anyway, let's see how this will all end. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Uniqueorn on January 07, 2014, 04:18:21 PM Supposedly cryptsy won't add NXT because the NXT coin doesn't work with their client. I knew the price would tank when I woke up, yesterday nobody was buying at .000055. Wasn't that surprised to see it at .000039. People still talking about buying cheap coins, still thinking you can profit at even .000039. Just wait a few more days and it will continue its drop even lower. There are much better investments, and Emunie is not pegged at a certain price. Nothing has been decided yet. Supposedly people think that if the price rises then new coins will be sold but a portion of those go to everyone who owns coins. Anyone buying NXT is crazy when there are much better alternatives. Code is supposedly a mess also. Uneven distribution has tainted this cone badly and for good reason as we have seen. Yeah cryptsy won't take it and dgex is a joke. It is laughable watching people defend this coin to the last bit. I can't wait until that 170 MILLION Nxt account poo's his load all over the brainless 'traders' who thinks he deserves to be a multimillionaire from 6 lines of code (assuming the largest account is the dev). If you are investing in Nxt, you might as well give up on crypto trading. Go get a 9-5. I'll be investing in true innovative systems like Ripple and eMunie. Ugh, people like you makes it hard to support the right to give birth... First off: if you were truly selling off all your NXT then you wouldn't be screaming it at the top of your lungs here. Secondly: give us proof that you have 50K nxt. Hand over your adress so I can check it in the blockchain Thirdly: The *only* drawback of NXT is the distribution. It would indeed have been 10x better if 1000 people had got 1 million each, of course, but that's not how this stuff works. 70~ people invested, they got lucky. This is no different from Bitcoin, Litecoin, Peercoin etc. yet these coins are doing very very well. And it's not like it was unfair, EVERYONE had the chance to buy in early, don't be mad at NXT because you didn't. The stakeholders should definitely step up and start pledging away NXT if they want NXT to have a guaranteed future. However even if they don't, NXT is still better than Bitcoin, Litecoin and Peercoin. And you called Ripple a "TRUE INNOVATION" compared to NXT, so your opinion is actually worth less than Dogecoin Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 07, 2014, 04:33:58 PM People still talking about buying cheap coins, still thinking you can profit at even .000039. Imagine if you had just listened. This is a sinking ship. I might scoop a few mil at 0.000000000000000000002 I took one look at the source code and realized that is was a complete joke. :D :D :D Meanwhile the price bounced back to 0.000054 and I didn't loose a single NXT because of that "joke" code. ;D can't profit at 0.000039 my ass Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: cremstopper on January 07, 2014, 04:50:07 PM It doesn't make sense to publicly warn us unless you are trying to buy in cheap.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 07, 2014, 05:14:37 PM It doesn't make sense to publicly warn us unless you are trying to buy in cheap. It is damn obvious. It makes no sense to spend all day all night spreading FUD unless you plan to invest big. The amount of trolling is proportional to your dedication to the coin. Everyone here support NXT in his way. Some are just selfish. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: SCAM on January 07, 2014, 05:34:06 PM People still talking about buying cheap coins, still thinking you can profit at even .000039. Imagine if you had just listened. This is a sinking ship. I might scoop a few mil at 0.000000000000000000002 I took one look at the source code and realized that is was a complete joke. :D :D :D Meanwhile the price bounced back to 0.000054 and I didn't loose a single NXT because of that "joke" code. ;D can't profit at 0.000039 my ass Prices are being manipulated to high hell on dgex right now...be careful. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: tracphil on January 07, 2014, 05:47:14 PM Code is supposedly a mess.... Is it or isn't it? From what I have read, it is pretty brilliant and I see a lot of fingers being pointed but no one presenting anything better. I call that creating FUD. I say put up or shut up to the naysayers. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: FrictionlessCoin on January 07, 2014, 06:57:00 PM Code is supposedly a mess.... Is it or isn't it? From what I have read, it is pretty brilliant and I see a lot of fingers being pointed but no one presenting anything better. I call that creating FUD. I say put up or shut up to the naysayers. Look if you use a 64 bit java long to represent addresses rather than the standard bitcoin 160 bit token, then you are just begging to be cracked. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 07, 2014, 07:32:02 PM Look if you use a 64 bit java long to represent addresses rather than the standard bitcoin 160 bit token, then you are just begging to be cracked. If an account reveals its public ID (has at least one outgoing transaction), all 256 bits are used. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: klee on January 07, 2014, 10:46:46 PM A fair coin:
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/518541/rich-get-richer-effect-observed-in-bitcoin-digital-currency-network/ :D muni in Greek = pussy lol Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 12:24:15 AM Supposedly cryptsy won't add NXT because the NXT coin doesn't work with their client. I knew the price would tank when I woke up, yesterday nobody was buying at .000055. Wasn't that surprised to see it at .000039. People still talking about buying cheap coins, still thinking you can profit at even .000039. Just wait a few more days and it will continue its drop even lower. There are much better investments, and Emunie is not pegged at a certain price. Nothing has been decided yet. Supposedly people think that if the price rises then new coins will be sold but a portion of those go to everyone who owns coins. Anyone buying NXT is crazy when there are much better alternatives. Code is supposedly a mess also. Uneven distribution has tainted this cone badly and for good reason as we have seen. Yeah cryptsy won't take it and dgex is a joke. It is laughable watching people defend this coin to the last bit. I can't wait until that 170 MILLION Nxt account poo's his load all over the brainless 'traders' who thinks he deserves to be a multimillionaire from 6 lines of code (assuming the largest account is the dev). If you are investing in Nxt, you might as well give up on crypto trading. Go get a 9-5. I'll be investing in true innovative systems like Ripple and eMunie. Ugh, people like you makes it hard to support the right to give birth... First off: if you were truly selling off all your NXT then you wouldn't be screaming it at the top of your lungs here. Secondly: give us proof that you have 50K nxt. Hand over your adress so I can check it in the blockchain Thirdly: The *only* drawback of NXT is the distribution. It would indeed have been 10x better if 1000 people had got 1 million each, of course, but that's not how this stuff works. 70~ people invested, they got lucky. This is no different from Bitcoin, Litecoin, Peercoin etc. yet these coins are doing very very well. And it's not like it was unfair, EVERYONE had the chance to buy in early, don't be mad at NXT because you didn't. The stakeholders should definitely step up and start pledging away NXT if they want NXT to have a guaranteed future. However even if they don't, NXT is still better than Bitcoin, Litecoin and Peercoin. And you called Ripple a "TRUE INNOVATION" compared to NXT, so your opinion is actually worth less than Dogecoin Gezz so many ways to tear you apart it isn't funny. Didn't you read what happened to the others who thought they were brilliant investors? You're right, your parents shouldn't have given birth to you, what an idiot. 1. Why wouldn't I? Who do you think you are? If you read the OP, it was clearly advising people to get out of Nxt for a number of reasons. Go read, I can't be bothered giving you anymore time than I have to. 2. 6635869272840226493 (plus I have more to dump on my Ripple account). 3. Wrong. Go read the OP and other contributions. As in they got lucky because the funding round ended prematurely without notice? And they were giving 50,000,000 coins (yes 50 MILLION) to those who contributed 1 BTC in October, so like $100. So now your saying that BTC, LTC, PPC was distributed to a few people by Satoshi, Coblee and SunnyKing? Is everyone else getting this? LOL. No my friend, those coins use mining. Yes there were early miners but at least it was a fair system from the beginning. Everyone had a fair chance and amount of TIME to get on board. They also use SHA256 and scrypt - WOWWWW! Not Java. Is your puny mind blown? Once again, no they didn't. The initial funding was closed without notice. And judging from your laymen reply so far, I guess you don't understand Ripple either? What 35+ EMPLOYEES have been working on for over a year with two rounds of multi-million dollar funding. But you don't really understand that because you think your coin with 5 lines of code written over a weekend, wins out again all other crypto. Keep eating that shit up! There is a billion to be dumped! OM NOM NOM NOM. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 12:28:58 AM People still talking about buying cheap coins, still thinking you can profit at even .000039. Imagine if you had just listened. This is a sinking ship. I might scoop a few mil at 0.000000000000000000002 I took one look at the source code and realized that is was a complete joke. :D :D :D Meanwhile the price bounced back to 0.000054 and I didn't loose a single NXT because of that "joke" code. ;D can't profit at 0.000039 my ass Prices are being manipulated to high hell on dgex right now...be careful. Even SCAM thinks it is a scam :D People who don't understand what is going on over at dgex should literally leave crypto. Like I said, go get a 9-5, this is painful to watch. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: flipstyle on January 08, 2014, 12:39:14 AM I was tempted to buy in at the $.05 price point, but decided against it. I think I'll wait this one out.
While I do agree 'early adopters' are the ones that profit the most on any crypto...the fact that all coins were distributed off the bat with this coin and required no work (be it mining, spending money on hardware/etc) and simply from a btc donation makes me devalue it more in comparison to a non POS coin. Now there were actual developers who did pitch in time to create the coin for their stake, but it is my understanding that a great majority of them simply just gave a miniscule btc donation to acquire their multi-million nxt stake. I'd be interested to see how much of the stake those original nxt contributors still hold. But I can't help but to shake the 'Hunts brothers' or 'jp morgan' image when evaluating this coin. Plus the concept of 'those holding the biggest stakes reap the biggest rewards' from the client mining side doesn't sit well with me. Seems just about on-par with the classism ideology and everything against what cryptos were meant to be: by the people, for the people. Seems like this coin is more just 'rich keep getting richer, and poor stay poor.' No real middle class here. It especially doesn't help when I see one of these original stakeholders trying to flip 4 million shares in the marketplace forum 'ironically' right before the recent crash. Unfortunately for him, very few bought in, and he still has over 3.9 mill he's trying to dump. In any event, I'm still interested in NXT, but I will give it some time to see how things shake out. Right now it's still a big gamble with the numerous reported client bugs, dgex legitimacy, and stakeholder distribution. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: EvilDave on January 08, 2014, 12:50:20 AM You guys are going to so much effort to shoot NXT down that it's almost impossible not to conclude that you have a hidden agenda.
Are u simply aesthetically outraged by the sight of a messy Java clent being patched up on the fly? Or are you simply trolling for the FUD of it? I checked out NXT (and a big pile of other alt-coins) before I invested. My conclusion is that NXT is a promising crypto with a very motivated community and a lot of potentially game changing features. Sure, its got problems, distribution sucks for one. I should get much more..... But I do not think NXT is a deliberate scam. There are a lot of truly obvious scam coins on the market, why single out NXT for all this attention? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Blade Walker on January 08, 2014, 02:20:00 AM If anyone is dumping all there nxt I am open for donations
12738925918510358212 Thanks Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: tk808 on January 08, 2014, 02:25:01 AM You are right, Nxt is worthless.
Shower me in your trash 12679339366277281676 Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 07:33:35 AM You guys are going to so much effort to shoot NXT down that it's almost impossible not to conclude that you have a hidden agenda. Are u simply aesthetically outraged by the sight of a messy Java clent being patched up on the fly? Or are you simply trolling for the FUD of it? I checked out NXT (and a big pile of other alt-coins) before I invested. My conclusion is that NXT is a promising crypto with a very motivated community and a lot of potentially game changing features. Sure, its got problems, distribution sucks for one. I should get much more..... But I do not think NXT is a deliberate scam. There are a lot of truly obvious scam coins on the market, why single out NXT for all this attention? Because if you read the thread instead of going straight to 'reply' you would have a grasp on why people do not like Nxt. I'm not going to spoon feed you AGAIN (it has been mentioned multiple times by many users) why Nxt is a bad investment. Do what you like with your BTC and keep thinking people have hidden agendas instead of actually trying to warn the community. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 08, 2014, 07:46:47 AM If NXT code is a mess, Bitcoin source code is a giant mess (must see). (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=225163.0;all) Quote the genius doesn't lie in the code base, but in the algorithms and that the code is crap. I agree with that assessment. ... I've been thinking about refactoring the code myself. Everybody is afraid of breaking it since it appears to work, and that is reasonable to an extent, but on the other hand this code base is utterly unsuitable for serious work. In comparison, look how fast the NXT code is improving : Nxt Software Change Log (http://wiki.nxtcrypto.org/wiki/Nxt_Software_Change_Log) It won't take long before NXT code overcome Bitcoin code. Talk about fair distribution ? Bitcoin distribution Dec 2013
Total: 11.6M bitcoins (0.5M bitcoins assumed lost) It doesn't seems to bother anyone with Bitcoin, why do you bitch about NXT ? Well, everyone knows now : selfish manipulation. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Edward50 on January 08, 2014, 08:50:35 AM Please everyone stay away from NXT.
you have 70% or more of the coins owned by a few individuals, meaning 700 million of the billion coins. They will dump at any price increase. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 08, 2014, 09:14:52 AM Please everyone stay away from NXT. you have 70% or more of the coins owned by a few individuals, meaning 700 million of the billion coins. They will dump at any price increase. Please Edward50 then stay away from Bitcoin, Litecoin, Peercoin etc. They have a similar situation. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: laowai80 on January 08, 2014, 09:17:39 AM Please everyone stay away from NXT. you have 70% or more of the coins owned by a few individuals, meaning 700 million of the billion coins. They will dump at any price increase. Please Edward50 then stay away from Bitcoin, Litecoin, Peercoin etc. They have a similar situation. I would suggest staying away from any form of money, because: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/U.S._Distribution_of_Wealth%2C_2007.jpg Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 09:19:34 AM Please everyone stay away from NXT. you have 70% or more of the coins owned by a few individuals, meaning 700 million of the billion coins. They will dump at any price increase. Please Edward50 then stay away from Bitcoin, Litecoin, Peercoin etc. They have a similar situation. Did you read the thread? No. There are significant flaws to Nxt including how it was poorly distributed, manipulated, bad code, etc etc I invite you to read this thread. A lot of interesting facts that you will find along the way. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: EvilDave on January 08, 2014, 09:24:22 AM You guys are going to so much effort to shoot NXT down that it's almost impossible not to conclude that you have a hidden agenda. Are u simply aesthetically outraged by the sight of a messy Java clent being patched up on the fly? Or are you simply trolling for the FUD of it? I checked out NXT (and a big pile of other alt-coins) before I invested. My conclusion is that NXT is a promising crypto with a very motivated community and a lot of potentially game changing features. Sure, its got problems, distribution sucks for one. I should get much more..... But I do not think NXT is a deliberate scam. There are a lot of truly obvious scam coins on the market, why single out NXT for all this attention? Because if you read the thread instead of going straight to 'reply' you would have a grasp on why people do not like Nxt. I'm not going to spoon feed you AGAIN (it has been mentioned multiple times by many users) why Nxt is a bad investment. Do what you like with your BTC and keep thinking people have hidden agendas instead of actually trying to warn the community. I've got no problem with acknowledging that NXT is a long way from perfect. It might work out brilliantly, or it may crash and burn. Almost all of your objections to NXT could have been applied to BItcoin 5 years ago. But I dont see you putting quite so much effort into warning the community about other coins that may have problems. Visacoin, for example? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 09:25:16 AM Please everyone stay away from NXT. you have 70% or more of the coins owned by a few individuals, meaning 700 million of the billion coins. They will dump at any price increase. Please Edward50 then stay away from Bitcoin, Litecoin, Peercoin etc. They have a similar situation. I would suggest staying away from any form of money, because: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/U.S._Distribution_of_Wealth%2C_2007.jpg Sorry I must have missed that time in history when all of Americas wealth was distributed amongst a handful of lucky donors and the rest of America had to buy their way in for a 10000% premium. Usually people work for money being USD (jobs, inheretence etc), BTC (mining), etc. Idiot. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 09:26:45 AM You guys are going to so much effort to shoot NXT down that it's almost impossible not to conclude that you have a hidden agenda. Are u simply aesthetically outraged by the sight of a messy Java clent being patched up on the fly? Or are you simply trolling for the FUD of it? I checked out NXT (and a big pile of other alt-coins) before I invested. My conclusion is that NXT is a promising crypto with a very motivated community and a lot of potentially game changing features. Sure, its got problems, distribution sucks for one. I should get much more..... But I do not think NXT is a deliberate scam. There are a lot of truly obvious scam coins on the market, why single out NXT for all this attention? Because if you read the thread instead of going straight to 'reply' you would have a grasp on why people do not like Nxt. I'm not going to spoon feed you AGAIN (it has been mentioned multiple times by many users) why Nxt is a bad investment. Do what you like with your BTC and keep thinking people have hidden agendas instead of actually trying to warn the community. I've got no problem with acknowledging that NXT is a long way from perfect. It might work out brilliantly, or it may crash and burn. Almost all of your objections to NXT could have been applied to BItcoin 5 years ago. But I dont see you putting quite so much effort into warning the community about other coins that may have problems. Visacoin, for example? Because if you read the thread instead of going straight to 'reply' you would have a grasp on why people do not like Nxt. I'm not going to spoon feed you AGAIN (it has been mentioned multiple times by many users) why Nxt is a bad investment. Do what you like with your BTC and keep thinking people have hidden agendas instead of actually trying to warn the community. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 08, 2014, 09:34:29 AM Sorry I must have missed that time in history when all of Americas wealth was distributed amongst a handful of lucky donors and the rest of America had to buy their way in for a 10000% premium. Usually people work for money being USD (jobs, inheretence etc), BTC (mining), etc. Idiot. LOL you believe the American system if FAIR ? That the wealth of the 1% come from hardwork ? Usually people work for money (jobs, inheretence etc), BTC (mining), etc. Since when inheritance is a work ? You are not mining, your computer is mining and wasting energy. This problem is solved with NXT with 100% Proof-of-Stake (PoS). BIM ! Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 08, 2014, 09:46:19 AM Did you read the thread? No. There are significant flaws to Nxt including how it was poorly distributed, manipulated, bad code, etc etc I read this thread, the original NXt thread, the 800+ thread. After doing so I came to the conclusion that NXT has a LOT of potential (and that you are a troll). Every one of my NXT is save behind a 256bit encryption, if the code is so bad, why can't you steal my coins? The question is, why do you care so much? Are you so altruistic to save everyone from doing a big mistake? How kind of you. :-* Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: EvilDave on January 08, 2014, 10:00:35 AM Sorry I must have missed that time in history when all of Americas wealth was distributed amongst a handful of lucky donors and the rest of America had to buy their way in for a 10000% premium. Usually people work for money being USD (jobs, inheretence etc), BTC (mining), etc. Idiot. So I can conclude that u also have a problem with people buying into Bitcoins potential wealth at an insane premium. Maybe I should ask some early BTC adopters to release their reserves at a reasonable price, say $1 per BTC, so the rest of us can catch up. Sounds fair to me...... Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 10:02:22 AM Did you read the thread? No. There are significant flaws to Nxt including how it was poorly distributed, manipulated, bad code, etc etc I read this thread, the original NXt thread, the 800+ thread. After doing so I came to the conclusion that NXT has a LOT of potential (and that you are a troll). Every one of my NXT is save behind a 256bit encryption, if the code is so bad, why can't you steal my coins? The question is, why do you care so much? Are you so altruistic to save everyone from doing a big mistake? How kind of you. :-* :-* I don't care, I simply made a thread on why I don't like Nxt and why it is a bad investment. This board is, after all, a discussion for alternate cryptocurrencies. It was a promising new coin, I just don't like everything that has been mentioned in this topic. Bad outweighed the good. Don't forget, the mining is all great and 'innovative' but who do you think gets all of the blocks? The rich minority have set themselves up with a passive income for the rest of their lives while the peasants lap up their Nxt at a HUGE premium while vigorously defending their masters chanting "donors deserve all of our Bitcoin, they took the risk. donors deserve all of our Bitcoin, they took the risk. donors deserve all of our Bitcoin, they took the risk." The bottom line is, you are asking to be dumped on in Nxt. Every BTC you invest goes into a donors wallet. They thank you and then proceed to laugh with their remaining 999,994,000 Nxt. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 10:07:32 AM Sorry I must have missed that time in history when all of Americas wealth was distributed amongst a handful of lucky donors and the rest of America had to buy their way in for a 10000% premium. Usually people work for money being USD (jobs, inheretence etc), BTC (mining), etc. Idiot. So I can conclude that u also have a problem with people buying into Bitcoins potential wealth at an insane premium. Maybe I should ask some early BTC adopters to release their reserves at a reasonable price, say $1 per BTC, so the rest of us can catch up. Sounds fair to me...... Don't worry, your noob account forgives you as you obviously know shit about what we are talking about. Maybe spend some time watching 'what is Bitcoin' videos, read this thread over and then come back. Good attempt though :-* I wish I could keep playing your game and pretend Satoshi handed out 21 million BTC to some lucky donors which was prematurely ended because it wouldn't give him enough BTC. But we won't as I don't even think you know what mining is. How sad. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: EvilDave on January 08, 2014, 10:19:03 AM Something to do with dwarves, yeah?
My, we are getting grumpy. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: luckygenough56 on January 08, 2014, 10:31:12 AM every second gen coin is about going early. Emunie will be the same. Deal with it and don't try to influence people with ur obvious statements. At least, nxt is serious developpement, we can't say that about other copycats.
Op seems too stupid to buy low and sell high, no matter u don't have a big stack of nxt, be smart and ride the wave. Same for bitcoin and all etc...when whales do their move, just ride on it. Oh well, seems you're new in crypto. What's ur point, you want your small share of nxt to have an impact on market ? that's not how crypto works and it will never be. Big money make big benefits. Small money make benefits only if smart used. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: d5000 on January 08, 2014, 10:38:22 AM You are right, it is good that the early investors are now dumping all their coins. So Nxt gets better distributed.
This crash is healthy. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: luckygenough56 on January 08, 2014, 10:55:34 AM yep OP have to be happy, it's crashing since yesterday and i didn't see high market manipulation at all like he stated. Only pretty small amounts are traded ::)
Buy op, buy ! Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 10:56:06 AM You are right, it is good that the early investors are now dumping all their coins. So Nxt gets better distributed. This crash is healthy. Actually, you'll find that the ones who crashed the price around 0.00013 (making hundreds of BTC), are buying back now. Rinse and repeat. This is a torturous game that will take months for the real dedicated to stop believing when they are all dried up. You have to give it to the devs, very smart scheme to become bitcoin rich. https://i.imgur.com/bJXpIg2.jpg Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: luckygenough56 on January 08, 2014, 11:00:32 AM i'm not dried at all, opposite. Smart moves are smart. You have to be a moron to sell as soon as it goes down. It always goes up again, be patient. How is it difficult to understand that ?
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 11:01:12 AM yep OP have to be happy, it's crashing since yesterday and i didn't see high market manipulation at all like he stated. Only pretty small amounts are traded ::) Buy op, buy ! Yeah, the admin of dgex has a volume bot. The other day there were probably 50+ buy 400 Nxt orders. I'm still trying to sell my 50,000 Nxt :'( I had a sell at 0.00007 thinking some suckers would pump up the price. Next day it was trading for 0.000035. Lucky I put barely any BTC in. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: luckygenough56 on January 08, 2014, 11:06:29 AM same thing i only put a fraction of btc but i still can do something with them. No need to be that stressed for so little money ;)
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Mr.V on January 08, 2014, 01:10:30 PM So all I had to do was invest 1 btc in NXT to be a share holder and it would have made me a millionair... aww right their are a lot of new coins poping up that are investment coins like NXT I'm going to invest in those and get rich because the devs will give me a huge chunk of the currency I'll wait to the price rises then I'll dump it on the idiots who decide to buy a coin that was created to make a few ppl rich
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 01:56:36 PM same thing i only put a fraction of btc but i still can do something with them. No need to be that stressed for so little money ;) Only people who don't read the thread and chant "donors deserve all of our money, they took the risk" make me stressed. Otherwise I don't care. Like I said, just sharing my trail of thought on a cryptocurrency forum. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 02:08:19 PM So all I had to do was invest 1 btc in NXT to be a share holder and it would have made me a millionair... aww right their are a lot of new coins poping up that are investment coins like NXT I'm going to invest in those and get rich because the devs will give me a huge chunk of the currency I'll wait to the price rises then I'll dump it on the idiots who decide to buy a coin that was created to make a few ppl rich Good scheme eh. Donate 1 BTC on a super quick IPO which was cut short and receive 50,000,000 Nxt. Sit back and watch the fools gobble up the coin which cost you around $100 total (October BTC price) while making you a multimillionaire. Some simple math. Those donors with 50,000,000 Nxt have 5985.00000000 BTC currently $5,619,915 USD at 0.00012 (the last high). Do you all see why I am wary of Nxt's future? Hell yeah if I had the Nxt available to make me a multimillionaire I would dump on EVERYONE at a certain price point. Every time it touched that price I would dump again. If the price vanished down to 0.00003 I would buy back in again. Keep scaring the market with my dumps and buying back again on the lows. You will NEVER win! You are just feeding these individuals your BTC! The only people who have been opposing me are either new accounts (puppets) or donors (puppet masters). --------------THE------------------------WHOLE-----------------------REASON-------------------------FOR--------------------------THIS---------------------------THREAD--------------------- Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: EvilDave on January 08, 2014, 02:33:52 PM NWO: just out of curiousity, what is your number 2 most scammy coin, after NXT ?
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Real1Guy on January 08, 2014, 02:38:00 PM Once it hits 0.00008+, I'm out. Forever. Here's why: There are around 70 odd 'donors/ founders/ whatever you call them who hold 4,000,000 Nxt each (probably more). That only equals 280,000,000 Nxt, where is the rest???? Good question. Even with just these 70 individuals (excluding the 3/4 of Nxt which is probably in the hands of a smaller group of anonymous donors/ founders/ whatever you call them) they all have the opportunity to make 399 BTC at 0.0001 BTC from a 1 BTC investment. Even if you could buy at the absolute low of 0.00005 (which it isn't at), you only have the chance to double your money, but why would you want the risk to merely double your money with these HUGE whales lurking? Better yet, if it went to 0.001, they would have 3990 worth of BTC to dump, so forth. This coin has NO future potential due to the poor distribution of the coins. There are 70 reasons (probably more) to be scared every time the price goes up. At least Ripple is governed by one organisation and not a group of lucky investors which are looking to become overnight millionaires. They are just dumping their stashes on the highs, creating panic and a massive price drop and then buying back at a much cheaper price. Rinse and repeat. The price will never go anywhere and it has been highly manipulated from the start. If you don't think you were played and you are still singing the 'let me line the donor's pockets with millions because they deserve it for the risk' chant, here's a scenario which probably got you into Nxt in the first place. The great price pump of late December. Two weeks ago when that pump was happening, practically ALL of the Nxt was held internally. The developers were basically selling to themselves to artificially increase the price. When all of the volume is coming from a small group of people, who in their right mind thinks this market is not being manipulated? The bag holders know the price will go down and they are cashing out now on suckers to buy back later for cheap. Rinse and repeat. All day I have been watching large buy walls get demolished. We are talking 500k walls and so on. Those poor people are now stuck at that price point while the greedy few buy back a lot cheaper for more carnage. TOPIC BREAKDOWN FOR THE LAYMEN: - The source code was a joke - The price is crashing due to major manipulation efforts and lack of confidence - Any 'decent' profit now will make the donors extremely wealthy - 3/4 of Nxt is not accounted for Disclaimer: I own 50,000+ Nxt which will soon be GONE! I want out! +100000000000000 i totaly suport U man and dont mind for noobs who talk trash about your point of view, there is and all sayin leave shit to stink.. STUPED NOOBS-Suporters of next (esepecialy those who got for free, 0,00000000% of NXT total, and those who boot and think they can double money ) you are ALL sheeps! its like you work for one guy in a factory, your wage is 100$ a month, and he earns (doing nothing of course, you are doing for him, he just menage, and colect money) 1000000$ a month.. AND YOU ALL THINK YOU ARE SMART buhahahhahahah sheeps.. ''You can work in a diferent factory, try out.. GO TO STRIKE You stuped motherf....'' metaphore (explenation for most stuped noobs) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 02:39:22 PM NWO: just out of curiousity, what is your number 2 most scammy coin, after NXT ? That new 'Shares' Nxt clone being advertised by the Frozen dev Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 02:46:04 PM Once it hits 0.00008+, I'm out. Forever. Here's why: There are around 70 odd 'donors/ founders/ whatever you call them who hold 4,000,000 Nxt each (probably more). That only equals 280,000,000 Nxt, where is the rest???? Good question. Even with just these 70 individuals (excluding the 3/4 of Nxt which is probably in the hands of a smaller group of anonymous donors/ founders/ whatever you call them) they all have the opportunity to make 399 BTC at 0.0001 BTC from a 1 BTC investment. Even if you could buy at the absolute low of 0.00005 (which it isn't at), you only have the chance to double your money, but why would you want the risk to merely double your money with these HUGE whales lurking? Better yet, if it went to 0.001, they would have 3990 worth of BTC to dump, so forth. This coin has NO future potential due to the poor distribution of the coins. There are 70 reasons (probably more) to be scared every time the price goes up. At least Ripple is governed by one organisation and not a group of lucky investors which are looking to become overnight millionaires. They are just dumping their stashes on the highs, creating panic and a massive price drop and then buying back at a much cheaper price. Rinse and repeat. The price will never go anywhere and it has been highly manipulated from the start. If you don't think you were played and you are still singing the 'let me line the donor's pockets with millions because they deserve it for the risk' chant, here's a scenario which probably got you into Nxt in the first place. The great price pump of late December. Two weeks ago when that pump was happening, practically ALL of the Nxt was held internally. The developers were basically selling to themselves to artificially increase the price. When all of the volume is coming from a small group of people, who in their right mind thinks this market is not being manipulated? The bag holders know the price will go down and they are cashing out now on suckers to buy back later for cheap. Rinse and repeat. All day I have been watching large buy walls get demolished. We are talking 500k walls and so on. Those poor people are now stuck at that price point while the greedy few buy back a lot cheaper for more carnage. TOPIC BREAKDOWN FOR THE LAYMEN: - The source code was a joke - The price is crashing due to major manipulation efforts and lack of confidence - Any 'decent' profit now will make the donors extremely wealthy - 3/4 of Nxt is not accounted for Disclaimer: I own 50,000+ Nxt which will soon be GONE! I want out! +100000000000000 i totaly suport U man and dont mind for noobs who talk trash about your point of view, there is and all sayin leave shit to stink.. STUPED NOOBS-Suporters of next (esepecialy those who got for free, 0,00000000% of NXT total, and those who boot and think they can double money ) you are ALL sheeps! its like you work for one guy in a factory, your wage is 100$ a month, and he earns (doing nothing of course, you are doing for him, he just menage, and colect money) 1000000$ a month.. AND YOU ALL THINK YOU ARE SMART buhahahhahahah sheeps.. ''You can work in a diferent factory, try out.. GO TO STRIKE You stuped motherf....'' metaphore (explenation for most stuped noobs) Thanks man, it literally boggles my mind. I came on here with the facts and all I got shouted at me was "the donors deserve to be millionaires because they took the risk.." from puppet accounts and sheep Did you see my breakdown on why this coin is doomed? The 1 BTC donors got 50 MILLION Nxt.... LOL. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Real1Guy on January 08, 2014, 02:56:06 PM Once it hits 0.00008+, I'm out. Forever. Here's why: There are around 70 odd 'donors/ founders/ whatever you call them who hold 4,000,000 Nxt each (probably more). That only equals 280,000,000 Nxt, where is the rest???? Good question. Even with just these 70 individuals (excluding the 3/4 of Nxt which is probably in the hands of a smaller group of anonymous donors/ founders/ whatever you call them) they all have the opportunity to make 399 BTC at 0.0001 BTC from a 1 BTC investment. Even if you could buy at the absolute low of 0.00005 (which it isn't at), you only have the chance to double your money, but why would you want the risk to merely double your money with these HUGE whales lurking? Better yet, if it went to 0.001, they would have 3990 worth of BTC to dump, so forth. This coin has NO future potential due to the poor distribution of the coins. There are 70 reasons (probably more) to be scared every time the price goes up. At least Ripple is governed by one organisation and not a group of lucky investors which are looking to become overnight millionaires. They are just dumping their stashes on the highs, creating panic and a massive price drop and then buying back at a much cheaper price. Rinse and repeat. The price will never go anywhere and it has been highly manipulated from the start. If you don't think you were played and you are still singing the 'let me line the donor's pockets with millions because they deserve it for the risk' chant, here's a scenario which probably got you into Nxt in the first place. The great price pump of late December. Two weeks ago when that pump was happening, practically ALL of the Nxt was held internally. The developers were basically selling to themselves to artificially increase the price. When all of the volume is coming from a small group of people, who in their right mind thinks this market is not being manipulated? The bag holders know the price will go down and they are cashing out now on suckers to buy back later for cheap. Rinse and repeat. All day I have been watching large buy walls get demolished. We are talking 500k walls and so on. Those poor people are now stuck at that price point while the greedy few buy back a lot cheaper for more carnage. TOPIC BREAKDOWN FOR THE LAYMEN: - The source code was a joke - The price is crashing due to major manipulation efforts and lack of confidence - Any 'decent' profit now will make the donors extremely wealthy - 3/4 of Nxt is not accounted for Disclaimer: I own 50,000+ Nxt which will soon be GONE! I want out! +100000000000000 i totaly suport U man and dont mind for noobs who talk trash about your point of view, there is and all sayin leave shit to stink.. STUPED NOOBS-Suporters of next (esepecialy those who got for free, 0,00000000% of NXT total, and those who boot and think they can double money ) you are ALL sheeps! its like you work for one guy in a factory, your wage is 100$ a month, and he earns (doing nothing of course, you are doing for him, he just menage, and colect money) 1000000$ a month.. AND YOU ALL THINK YOU ARE SMART buhahahhahahah sheeps.. ''You can work in a diferent factory, try out.. GO TO STRIKE You stuped motherf....'' metaphore (explenation for most stuped noobs) Thanks man, it literally boggles my mind. I came on here with the facts and all I got shouted at me was "the donors deserve to be millionaires because they took the risk.." from puppet accounts and sheep Did you see my breakdown on why this coin is doomed? The 1 BTC donors got 50 MILLION Nxt.... LOL. They took the risk? in what, what kind of risk? ok they risk their time, i would pay them 100$ each for good work, and thats all that they risked.. I MEAN THEY HAD 100% OF NXT !!! (BUHAHHAA) and they are playing robbin hood, sherin THE MIGHTY 10% of their welth, and sold 20% to other noobs (sheeps) WHO THE F ARE THEY THINK THEY ARE, FED? CENTRA BANK? i feel sorry for people who think that THEY DISERVE 300BTC EACH (300*820=260000$ ) FOR WHAT? For let you have 0.000001% of total? OK PEOPLE,HERE ME OUT I HAVE 100K EAC NOW I WILL SELL 20K (1K for 5 btc FOR FIRST LUCKY SHEEP) AND I WILL ALSO DONATE 5K FOR FIRST 10000 noobs ( BUT U MUST EARN IT NOOBS,PROMOTE,EAT SHIT ..ITC, YOU ALL KNOW WHAT TO DO) I WILL ALSO MAKE MY OWN EXCANGE; AND I PROMISE U WE WILL ALL MAKE 10X PROFIT IN A MONTH (ok not U but me surrely, so its partal true what i just seed) NOW BY MY COIN SHEEPS PM ME Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: laowai80 on January 08, 2014, 03:08:04 PM So much hot air is wasted here, could as well use it for heating houses in New York or something :)
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: utopianfuture on January 08, 2014, 03:08:49 PM Reserved. Just to see what these losers say 2 months from now. NXT to da moon. hehe.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 08, 2014, 03:15:21 PM Once it hits 0.00008+, I'm out. Forever. Here's why: There are around 70 odd 'donors/ founders/ whatever you call them who hold 4,000,000 Nxt each (probably more). That only equals 280,000,000 Nxt, where is the rest???? Good question. Even with just these 70 individuals (excluding the 3/4 of Nxt which is probably in the hands of a smaller group of anonymous donors/ founders/ whatever you call them) they all have the opportunity to make 399 BTC at 0.0001 BTC from a 1 BTC investment. Even if you could buy at the absolute low of 0.00005 (which it isn't at), you only have the chance to double your money, but why would you want the risk to merely double your money with these HUGE whales lurking? Better yet, if it went to 0.001, they would have 3990 worth of BTC to dump, so forth. This coin has NO future potential due to the poor distribution of the coins. There are 70 reasons (probably more) to be scared every time the price goes up. At least Ripple is governed by one organisation and not a group of lucky investors which are looking to become overnight millionaires. They are just dumping their stashes on the highs, creating panic and a massive price drop and then buying back at a much cheaper price. Rinse and repeat. The price will never go anywhere and it has been highly manipulated from the start. If you don't think you were played and you are still singing the 'let me line the donor's pockets with millions because they deserve it for the risk' chant, here's a scenario which probably got you into Nxt in the first place. The great price pump of late December. Two weeks ago when that pump was happening, practically ALL of the Nxt was held internally. The developers were basically selling to themselves to artificially increase the price. When all of the volume is coming from a small group of people, who in their right mind thinks this market is not being manipulated? The bag holders know the price will go down and they are cashing out now on suckers to buy back later for cheap. Rinse and repeat. All day I have been watching large buy walls get demolished. We are talking 500k walls and so on. Those poor people are now stuck at that price point while the greedy few buy back a lot cheaper for more carnage. TOPIC BREAKDOWN FOR THE LAYMEN: - The source code was a joke - The price is crashing due to major manipulation efforts and lack of confidence - Any 'decent' profit now will make the donors extremely wealthy - 3/4 of Nxt is not accounted for Disclaimer: I own 50,000+ Nxt which will soon be GONE! I want out! +100000000000000 i totaly suport U man and dont mind for noobs who talk trash about your point of view, there is and all sayin leave shit to stink.. STUPED NOOBS-Suporters of next (esepecialy those who got for free, 0,00000000% of NXT total, and those who boot and think they can double money ) you are ALL sheeps! its like you work for one guy in a factory, your wage is 100$ a month, and he earns (doing nothing of course, you are doing for him, he just menage, and colect money) 1000000$ a month.. AND YOU ALL THINK YOU ARE SMART buhahahhahahah sheeps.. ''You can work in a diferent factory, try out.. GO TO STRIKE You stuped motherf....'' metaphore (explenation for most stuped noobs) Thanks man, it literally boggles my mind. I came on here with the facts and all I got shouted at me was "the donors deserve to be millionaires because they took the risk.." from puppet accounts and sheep Did you see my breakdown on why this coin is doomed? The 1 BTC donors got 50 MILLION Nxt.... LOL. They took the risk? in what, what kind of risk? ok they risk their time, i would pay them 100$ each for good work, and thats all that they risked.. I MEAN THEY HAD 100% OF NXT !!! (BUHAHHAA) and they are playing robbin hood, sherin THE MIGHTY 10% of their welth, and sold 20% to other noobs (sheeps) WHO THE F ARE THEY THINK THEY ARE, FED? CENTRA BANK? i feel sorry for people who think that THEY DISERVE 300BTC EACH (300*820=260000$ ) FOR WHAT? For let you have 0.000001% of total? OK PEOPLE,HERE ME OUT I HAVE 100K EAC NOW I WILL SELL 20K (1K for 5 btc FOR FIRST LUCKY SHEEP) AND I WILL ALSO DONATE 5K FOR FIRST 10000 noobs ( BUT U MUST EARN IT NOOBS,PROMOTE,EAT SHIT ..ITC, YOU ALL KNOW WHAT TO DO) I WILL ALSO MAKE MY OWN EXCANGE; AND I PROMISE U WE WILL ALL MAKE 10X PROFIT IN A MONTH (ok not U but me surrely, so its partal true what i just seed) NOW BY MY COIN SHEEPS PM ME https://i.imgur.com/BeMC0ya.jpg Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 08, 2014, 06:46:24 PM Meanwhile... NVO & his friends are doing exactly what they reproach to the early NXT adopters :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404562.msg4387014#msg4387014 They are investing one or few Bitcoins with hope of turning it into hundred. Of course they are not telling you anything ! They share and spread FUD but no good advices ;D They are pointing at NXT as a distraction while they are investing on an other coin ...to fuck you later. I don't see Cryptocurrency as a get-rich-quick-scheme. It is a matter of changing society with new ideas and innovation. NXT bring some serious innovative ideas and principles. It doesn't matter the current price. It was the same at the beginning of Bitcoin : no one wanted it. You could just buy a pizza with 10000 BTC. Now look at what you can afford with 10K BTC. It is only the very beginning of NXT, people cannot imagine how big it will be. NXT is the best long term investment. If you say the contrary, you are a troll. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: laowai80 on January 08, 2014, 06:55:26 PM They are investing one or few Bitcoins with hope of turning it into hundred. Of course they are not telling you anything ! They share and spread FUD but no good advices ;D They are pointing at NXT as a distraction while they are investing on an other coin ...to fuck you later. Who woulda thunk! :D Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Nullu on January 08, 2014, 07:13:46 PM Even if someone gave me some NXT I wouldn't know what to do with it.
Given some time I could explain Bitcoin to someone with a basic understanding of computers. NXT is a hard sell. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 09, 2014, 12:32:51 AM Meanwhile... NVO & his friends are doing exactly what they reproach to the early NXT adopters : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404562.msg4387014#msg4387014 They are investing one or few Bitcoins with hope of turning it into hundred. Of course they are not telling you anything ! They share and spread FUD but no good advices ;D They are pointing at NXT as a distraction while they are investing on an other coin ...to fuck you later. I don't see Cryptocurrency as a get-rich-quick-scheme. It is a matter of changing society with new ideas and innovation. NXT bring some serious innovative ideas and principles. It doesn't matter the current price. It was the same at the beginning of Bitcoin : no one wanted it. You could just buy a pizza with 10000 BTC. Now look at what you can afford with 10K BTC. It is only the very beginning of NXT, people cannot imagine how big it will be. NXT is the best long term investment. If you say the contrary, you are a troll. How can you still be missing the point after all of these pages? Are all Nxt donors as smart as you? Of course I am looking to invest in new ideas/ innovation. But if you understood the scope of this thread, you would stop looking like a moron to everyone. Which is why I don't reply to you. Here's a quick reminder. Also take a look at the OP. :o :o So all I had to do was invest 1 btc in NXT to be a share holder and it would have made me a millionair... aww right their are a lot of new coins poping up that are investment coins like NXT I'm going to invest in those and get rich because the devs will give me a huge chunk of the currency I'll wait to the price rises then I'll dump it on the idiots who decide to buy a coin that was created to make a few ppl rich Good scheme eh. Donate 1 BTC on a super quick IPO which was cut short and receive 50,000,000 Nxt. Sit back and watch the fools gobble up the coin which cost you around $100 total (October BTC price) while making you a multimillionaire. Some simple math. Those donors with 50,000,000 Nxt have 5985.00000000 BTC currently $5,619,915 USD at 0.00012 (the last high). Do you all see why I am wary of Nxt's future? Hell yeah if I had the Nxt available to make me a multimillionaire I would dump on EVERYONE at a certain price point. Every time it touched that price I would dump again. If the price vanished down to 0.00003 I would buy back in again. Keep scaring the market with my dumps and buying back again on the lows. You will NEVER win! You are just feeding these individuals your BTC! The only people who have been opposing me are either new accounts (puppets) or donors (puppet masters). --------------THE------------------------WHOLE-----------------------REASON-------------------------FOR--------------------------THIS---------------------------THREAD--------------------- Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: halinyo on January 09, 2014, 12:57:26 AM Meanwhile... NVO & his friends are doing exactly what they reproach to the early NXT adopters : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404562.msg4387014#msg4387014 They are investing one or few Bitcoins with hope of turning it into hundred. Of course they are not telling you anything ! They share and spread FUD but no good advices ;D They are pointing at NXT as a distraction while they are investing on an other coin ...to fuck you later. I don't see Cryptocurrency as a get-rich-quick-scheme. It is a matter of changing society with new ideas and innovation. NXT bring some serious innovative ideas and principles. It doesn't matter the current price. It was the same at the beginning of Bitcoin : no one wanted it. You could just buy a pizza with 10000 BTC. Now look at what you can afford with 10K BTC. It is only the very beginning of NXT, people cannot imagine how big it will be. NXT is the best long term investment. If you say the contrary, you are a troll. Great points you made there. And I can't agree you more. However, the problem is that "how can we take out the coins out of DGEX?" I made a few trials and waiting for so long and still waiting! Also, I suggest you to try out to take out a few and see what happens. If there is someone out there and were able to take out Nxt out of DGEX, please let me know. I even could not deposit next into DGEX 5 days and still counting! Not so good impression to make! Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: rick2718 on January 09, 2014, 08:10:11 AM This really says it all:
From dgex.com Terms and Conditions on or about 1/6/2014: "Once a deposit is made, the funds transferred become the property of DGEX.com and the client can hold no claim for the funds displayed on their DGEX.com account..." "Refund Policy: While DGEX.com is aiming for bona fide operationability, there are no refunds. All deposits are considered final purchases of digital tokens within the DGEX.com database only." Why would anybody want such a claim? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: phazon307 on January 09, 2014, 08:20:13 AM I so can't wait tell Betacoin makes a laughing stock out of the whole crypto world. Hardly anybody is mining it and it's worth about 3 cents a coin now. Just wait though :)
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 09, 2014, 08:22:37 AM This really says it all: From dgex.com Terms and Conditions on or about 1/6/2014: "Once a deposit is made, the funds transferred become the property of DGEX.com and the client can hold no claim for the funds displayed on their DGEX.com account..." "Refund Policy: While DGEX.com is aiming for bona fide operationability, there are no refunds. All deposits are considered final purchases of digital tokens within the DGEX.com database only." Why would anybody want such a claim? The whole Nxt scene is really dodgy. But yeah, totally agree. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: instacalm on January 09, 2014, 08:24:01 AM This thread is cute, I like it
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: dulinxu on January 09, 2014, 04:36:35 PM do you think you are smart????? LOL :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
the stockholders who owns amount coin can generate 1 btc everyday based on exsting price!!!!!! if price goes up, their profit will grow up! ;D ;D ;D ;D :) :) :), you are smart in your own world!!! do you think the all stockholders are stupied???? LOL do you think it is just like a scam altcoin??? LOL do you think people will go out after you????????? LOL do you think it is not selfish to tell people what you really think after you go out?????? based on your thought, the mastercoin stockholders would earn much more bitcoin!!! they got lots of investment, how can they take nothing back to the investors!!! LOL!!! based on you thought, tell people dont spend money on cryptocoins next time!!!!! LOL Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: dulinxu on January 09, 2014, 04:40:48 PM i guess you are looking for new IPO! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
you teach me knows the truth about the "fair"!!!!!!!! it is about selfish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! then nxt, nxt nxt nxt, Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Figalo on January 10, 2014, 10:13:25 PM From the rapport Global Wealth Databook 2012 :
For 223 000 billions dollars in the world, 82.4% of this monney is keep by only 8.1% of population. https://publications.credit-suisse.com/app/shop/index.cfm?fuseAction=OpenShopCategory&coid=381975&lang=FR Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on January 12, 2014, 07:32:55 AM From the rapport Global Wealth Databook 2012 : For 223 000 billions dollars in the world, 82.4% of this monney is keep by only 8.1% of population. https://publications.credit-suisse.com/app/shop/index.cfm?fuseAction=OpenShopCategory&coid=381975&lang=FR At least that money was earned... Nxt was a cut short IPO which made a lucky few very wealthy. They cut it short because the developers wanted more Nxt for themselves instead of dispersing it more evenly. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: SyRenity on January 12, 2014, 09:13:03 AM Once it hits 0.00008+, I'm out. Forever. Here's why: There are around 70 odd 'donors/ founders/ whatever you call them who hold 4,000,000 Nxt each (probably more). That only equals 280,000,000 Nxt, where is the rest???? Good question. . . . - 3/4 of Nxt is not accounted for How have you reached this conclusion? AFAIR the original dev published this formula: total_number_of_nxt * 1000 / balance_of_1BCN1ugdKdWd9pQ8Am9hMhtHZfmbXzxE8a This means each holds on average 14,2M on average (and probably within 10M - 47,6M range). Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: nerFohanzo on January 12, 2014, 09:28:01 AM I don't see Cryptocurrency as a get-rich-quick-scheme. It is a matter of changing society with new ideas and innovation. NXT bring some serious innovative ideas and principles. It doesn't matter the current price. It was the same at the beginning of Bitcoin : no one wanted it. You could just buy a pizza with 10000 BTC. Now look at what you can afford with 10K BTC. It is only the very beginning of NXT, people cannot imagine how big it will be. NXT is the best long term investment. If you say the contrary, you are a troll. Greed will cost you money most likely, best is wait at least one year if NXT becomes somehow usefull before buying even single NXT (the first two sentences is good advice) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Edward50 on January 13, 2014, 05:13:26 PM What does NXT really offer that bitcoin, other alts, or 2nd gen alts offer? Not that much that is really useful.
2nd generation alts will be a dime a dozen, they will never get the popularity needed until something truly revolutionary is developed. All alts are going down right now and will get worse. I don't own much of any of them right now. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: halinyo on January 17, 2014, 12:09:06 PM Nxt is not a coin for me. Just making others rich...
I also summarized a few things here about NXTCoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=418673.msg4545946#msg4545946 Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: halinyo on January 18, 2014, 07:24:14 AM Next coin is not safe for the end user.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Uniqueorn on January 18, 2014, 07:34:20 AM Haha it's hard to keep a serious face while reading the ignorant replies in here.
First of all: there was and is less circulation of Bitcoins than of NXT, same thing with Litecoin and Peercoin and all coins. Hell, it's even true of gold, silver, dollars, euros etc. and it hasn't stopped anything from being valued. People seem to be stuck in November 2013 when the first 73 people started selling off hundreds of millions of NXT, today there are 15+ thousand NXTers and the number is growing by several percent DAILY. By the end of a month NXT will have one of the best circulations out there, no doubt. Are there a few greedy ones that got lucky? Yeah of course, that's the name of the game, but it has absolutely no impact on the ecosystem of NXT, which is truly revolutionary. And as for OPs retarded opinion that the wealthy people of the world having earned the money, contrary to the ones who invested early in NXT? HAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHAAH hahhaahahahahhahha yeah riiiight. It's not like the rich in the world has got rich by exploiting people, getting in early on deals, corruption, slave labour etc. :D It's so cute to see teens and nobodies attempt to comprehend economics. And even more so attempt to comprehend the revolution that is cryptocurrencies. You are all just mad and sad that you can't buy a random cryptocurrency and watch it grow ten thousand fold, like the lottery. You missed the first NXT train and that's fine, NXT will grow thousands of percent in the next months after asset exchange/colored coins aswell as the upcoming news articles about NXT. But hey, keep up the hate it keeps NXT on the frontpage and intelligent people (those with actual money to spend) will see through the hate and become NXTers, they all do. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: filchef on January 19, 2014, 11:05:07 AM I am newbe for NXT and I try him faucet (http://nxtra.org/faucet/) - there was one transaction which newer arrive in my wallet and missing in the blockexplorer -so for me this is the useless network .Here is details for transaction -
Recipient - 8741555535567987120 Transaction - 248517930818134564 (http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=248517930818134564) Amount - 4 Date - 2014-01-18 09:23:33 I email to the support but nobody answer me. I think this is no peer to peer and is some kind of web based system of network so it is non reliability. And If I send or receive more then 4 coin and they never arrive ? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on January 19, 2014, 12:01:27 PM I am newbe for NXT and I try him faucet (http://nxtra.org/faucet/) - there was one transaction which newer arrive in my wallet and missing in the blockexplorer -so for me this is the useless network .Here is details for transaction - Recipient - 8741555535567987120 Transaction - 248517930818134564 (http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=2000&tra=248517930818134564) Amount - 4 Date - 2014-01-18 09:23:33 I email to the support but nobody answer me. I think this is no peer to peer and is some kind of web based system of network so it is non reliability. And If I send or receive more then 4 coin and they never arrive ? All links about Nxt here : http://nxtarea.com/ Explorer here : http://87.230.14.1/nxt/nxt.cgi?action=40 or here http://mynxt.info/blockexplorer/ or even here : http://22k.io/ Online wallet here : http://wallet.nxtarea.com:7874/ Resume from the main thread here : http://www.nxtcoins.nl/50-2/ One of many exchange : http://bter.com/trade/nxt_btc Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Slingshot on January 19, 2014, 05:23:22 PM From the rapport Global Wealth Databook 2012 : "At least that money was earned..."For 223 000 billions dollars in the world, 82.4% of this monney is keep by only 8.1% of population. https://publications.credit-suisse.com/app/shop/index.cfm?fuseAction=OpenShopCategory&coid=381975&lang=FR The vast majority of traditional fiat was not earned. Please, stick to facts. Does created out of thin air ring any bells? The vast majority of money of the peoples wasn't in fact "earned". Instead it's unearned at best. Even some countries tax systems refer to these monies as 'unearned income'. To refer to the majority of traditional fiat money being "earned'" is disingenuous. In fact it's all first created out of thin air as debt based currency, to the detriment of the people whom are made unwitting debt slaves into perpetuity. Take away all the debts, and suddenly there wont be any traditional fiat left either. As for Nxt: ------------ Why is it that the Exchange, the only Nxt Exchange worthy of mention, forces extreme Terms of Agreement? RE: once anyone deposits or has any funds of any types at that Exchange in question those funds are no longer the property of the account holder, but instead the property of the Exchange. Until Nxt is traded in an ethical fashion on an ethical Exchange, and until it's price reflects the enormous numbers of Nxt it wont be on my radar, and I will stay far away from Nxt. Nxt is worth merely worth a fraction of it's current value, imo, and that's the only opinion that matters. As for that Exchange with the outrageous terms? Forgetaboutem, and get your funds out now. As for Nxt itself: seems like a real innovation. But needing assistance finding it's way out of the forest of trees. Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware! Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: BitcoinMTG on January 20, 2014, 08:40:07 AM Why is it that the Exchange, the only Nxt Exchange worthy of mention, forces extreme Terms of Agreement? What about Bter ? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: farl4web on February 07, 2014, 08:30:15 AM There are a lot of new exchanges for Nxt available. Give it time and don't expect a new currency to get big in a few months, this takes time.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Emule on February 27, 2014, 09:44:36 PM GET out of nxt fast, hughe red flags
Its over NXT is dead, if you want some money back dump right now cos when whales start to dump it will be at 0 in seconds. reasons why to dump community not capable to take over the project AE not working client posponed again and again promissed features not developed nobody understand the code epic failing marketing lot of other stuff going on get out fast Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: hvezdasmrti on February 28, 2014, 02:01:07 AM I love these words, as a notoric hater of something which made 73 people rich and thousands of sheeps buying for oppressive price from the trust...
NXT can make popular by community and not hated only one thing, just start a secondary IPO and spread up the coins into the whole community. Just like NEM - make a thread, let people pay some coins (not too many), let it run for few weeks and the divide the NXTs between everyone who has take a part in an IPO. And some amount give just for free for everybody, not too much stuff but it will make you very popular not hated like now - e. g. 220 mil. IPO, 20.000 attendants who paid some BTC, so everyone will get 10000NXT and the 20 millions divide to everyone even who has not paid, e. g. 100NXT per person . Some NXT you can save for promoting the coin (just by bribing with NXT), some NXT may be used for charity and marketing. It will make NXT popular and community will not cry that it makes NXT inflationary, i personally have no problem to give some devaluation for good purposes like charity or marketing. All 73 NXTers have now enough BTCs from the hell expensive NXTs so i dont see a problem. Yes it will probably shoot down the price. However noobs who have bought for oppresive prices dont deserve anything else. But this scenario will happen even if NXTers will not do that - just when the price goes down and NXT will fade away NXTers will not have any other solution how to save the project. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: CoinTropolis_JustaBitTime on February 28, 2014, 03:17:55 AM *yawn*
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: farl4web on February 28, 2014, 08:32:16 AM NXT can make popular by community and not hated only one thing, just start a secondary IPO and spread up the coins into the whole community. That's how Nxt was being introduced. Only not that much people reacted. Why didn't you?Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on February 28, 2014, 09:21:12 AM Just like NEM - make a thread, let people pay some coins (not too many), let it run for few weeks and the divide the NXTs between everyone who has take a part in an IPO. That's EXACTLY how it was done with NXT. What's your point? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on February 28, 2014, 09:29:39 AM *yawn* I've got Nxt haters gonna hate *yawn* Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: wakasaki808 on February 28, 2014, 09:42:39 AM Just like NEM - make a thread, let people pay some coins (not too many), let it run for few weeks and the divide the NXTs between everyone who has take a part in an IPO. Guess you weren't into NXT during the original thread release? Since that is exactly how it went. NXT's investment timeframe was run for 6 weeks (lateSept - early Nov). Only 73 people were interested in it, which is why there was only 73 original stakeholders with amounts invested between .00000001-1 BTC. The rest of the posters called scam or didn't believe in it. BCNext called it off early at 21 BTC for who knows why... might have been the "21" type of feeling aka 21=21,000,000(total ever BTC created) type of look. Or maybe BCNext worrying about too many multiple buy-ins, or something else. The only people that call it unfair now is those that missed out on it. Especially when the price was still 1BTC = 1M NXT during the first 1-2 weeks AFTER NXT was released. You can have fun reading the original thread if you want: :) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: lophie on March 05, 2014, 09:48:06 AM You must be new here. There insane numbers are everywhere, Why are you expecting nxt to be any different?
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: XbladeX on March 05, 2014, 10:52:07 AM as he said, use ur brain. +1 look how NXT clons make it. Equal shares many of bittalks sites of ipo... and so on...I bought 1.2Mnxt for 0.02btc. I let you do the math on my ROI, is it plausible to have that ROI without having smartass buyers who don't know that 2+2=4. When some of the top account will dump; u will say WTF on the main thread, and everyone involved will tell you that it's normal when everyone outside will just watch. I assume you will believe the nxt community members ? POS are maybe the future, but not if distributed like that. POS will succeed with fair distribution only. Even POW/POS coin are better in that matter like PPC, BC,Cash no premine shit at all... About early adopter should be awarded offcourse becouse they invest in coin the most from own bag !! but is not "fair" when you start will 75% in your bag... LOL Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on March 05, 2014, 11:33:32 AM as he said, use ur brain. +1 look how NXT clons make it. Equal shares many of bittalks sites of ipo... and so on...I bought 1.2Mnxt for 0.02btc. I let you do the math on my ROI, is it plausible to have that ROI without having smartass buyers who don't know that 2+2=4. When some of the top account will dump; u will say WTF on the main thread, and everyone involved will tell you that it's normal when everyone outside will just watch. I assume you will believe the nxt community members ? POS are maybe the future, but not if distributed like that. POS will succeed with fair distribution only. Even POW/POS coin are better in that matter like PPC, BC,Cash no premine shit at all... About early adopter should be awarded offcourse becouse they invest in coin the most from own bag !! but is not "fair" when you start will 75% in your bag... LOL -1. Yes, I see how Nxt clones does it : They scam people out of 100% of BTC invested and never deliver anything. Very fair. Great argument... Notice that the Nxt IPO was 2 months long : no other IPO can compare to it. No excuses if you didn't invest. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: td services on March 05, 2014, 09:27:03 PM Just like NEM - make a thread, let people pay some coins (not too many), let it run for few weeks and the divide the NXTs between everyone who has take a part in an IPO. Guess you weren't into NXT during the original thread release? Since that is exactly how it went. NXT's investment timeframe was run for 6 weeks (lateSept - early Nov). Only 73 people were interested in it, which is why there was only 73 original stakeholders with amounts invested between .00000001-1 BTC. The rest of the posters called scam or didn't believe in it. BCNext called it off early at 21 BTC for who knows why... might have been the "21" type of feeling aka 21=21,000,000(total ever BTC created) type of look. Or maybe BCNext worrying about too many multiple buy-ins, or something else. The only people that call it unfair now is those that missed out on it. Especially when the price was still 1BTC = 1M NXT during the first 1-2 weeks AFTER NXT was released. You can have fun reading the original thread if you want: :) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 Actually, 74 people were interested in NXT during the pre-sale, but the 74th was not allowed to invest and had the door slammed in his face while waiting to hear back from the founder for clarification on the deadline. About a week after the pre-sale was abruptly terminated with no advance warning and while someone was interested in participating, NXT was being sold at a 4762% markup from the original average pre-sale price, from .000000021 BTC/NXT to .000001 BTC/NXT. From https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.480 Can we still join in between now and January 3? I haven't really seen any clear definition of a deadline. I'm waiting for the answer. BCNext reads this thread. Some changes in the plan: 1. Fundraising is over. That last 1 BTC, sent after the 2nd marking transaction, will be accepted but no more deposits should be made. 2. Nxt will be launched earlier than on the 3rd of January, right after the final test. 3. New Nxt users r supposed to be attracted by selling NXT and distributing via Nxt Faucet. 4. Messaging feature will be released later to avoid situation when somebody attempts to bloat the blockchain making it too huge for newcomers. BTW we need one more bootstrapping server, coz 2 servers is not enough. 1) the main dev (BCNext) no longer posts directly to this thread but you purport to communicate with him and speak for him about the project, something we can't confirm, 2) the deadline for contributing BTC to acquire Nxt, which was originally described as being open until the genesis block was approved by the community sometimes at least a month from now, is now suddenly declared over with no advance warning; and 3) the BTC that were already sent to acquire Nxt, which the main dev (BCNext) promised earlier in this thread not to touch until the genesis block was generated, have now been moved. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on March 06, 2014, 11:19:45 AM Actually, 74 people were interested in NXT during the pre-sale, but the 74th was not allowed to invest and had the door slammed in his face while waiting to hear back from the founder for clarification on the deadline. About a week after the pre-sale was abruptly terminated with no advance warning and while someone was interested in participating, NXT was being sold at blablabla... Too late is too late that's it. Whatever if one guy wanted to buy at the last minute. This happened to XCP (counterpartyprotocol), one sender was just-on-time and two others where too late and lost their Bitcoins (http://www.blockscan.com/burn.aspx). One of the guy lost 1 full BTC (https://blockchain.info/tx/38080960fbe94f9e1fb0725f0aff8efe844ffffd1779e006630f1577ffec415c) and will never get it back, it has been burned (=lost). The guy that wanted to buy Nxt at the last minutes did not lose any Bitcoin. Instead, he and all the haters had the opportunity to buy Nxt just after on the exchange for a price 8 to 80 times cheaper than now. I know the problem here and it is not a problem about Nxt. I am going to be hard but if this few lines wake you up and change the course of your life, it is worst listening... A loser is a loser. No matter hard he try, a loser keeps failing and never face the reasons why he fails. It is always the fault of the others he says. If you didn't invest in Nxt is it not about IPO or price or anything. Stop trying to find excuses. It is because you are acting like a loser. Now get over it and live in the present moment. Stop crying and move on. Stop being a loser Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on March 06, 2014, 12:35:16 PM Actually, 74 people were interested in NXT during the pre-sale, but the 74th was not allowed to invest and had the door slammed in his face while waiting to hear back from the founder for clarification on the deadline. About a week after the pre-sale was abruptly terminated with no advance warning and while someone was interested in participating, NXT was being sold at blablabla... Too late is too late that's it. Whatever if one guy wanted to buy at the last minute. This happened to XCP (counterpartyprotocol), one sender was just-on-time and two others where too late and lost their Bitcoins (http://www.blockscan.com/burn.aspx). One of the guy lost 1 full BTC (https://blockchain.info/tx/38080960fbe94f9e1fb0725f0aff8efe844ffffd1779e006630f1577ffec415c) and will never get it back, it has been burned (=lost). The guy that wanted to buy Nxt at the last minutes did not lose any Bitcoin. Instead, he and all the haters had the opportunity to buy Nxt just after on the exchange for a price 8 to 80 times cheaper than now. I know the problem here and it is not a problem about Nxt. I am going to be hard but if this few lines wake you up and change the course of your life, it is worst listening... A loser is a loser. No matter hard he try, a loser keeps failing and never face the reasons why he fails. It is always the fault of the others he says. If you didn't invest in Nxt is it not about IPO or price or anything. Stop trying to find excuses. It is because you are acting like a loser. Now get over it and live in the present moment. Stop crying and move on. Stop being a loser You're the one who keeps bumping this thread. Get over it, your coin is dying*. Nxt is old news. There are so many more promising coins in development (XCP, ETH, XRP, EXO, Zero coin) than some java garbage. Oh wow, websites use java - revelation! Java works great for websites. Not financial instruments. It is nothing but a poorly designed cash grab where the unfair (short lived) IPO made the initial investors wealthy from suckers buying in. *Even the dgex owner knows it. He is scurrying to sell 'shares' so he can squeeze every last cent out of Nxt supporters before it's inevitable demise. He had a good run. Those early adopters banked, I'll give them that. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on March 06, 2014, 06:11:07 PM Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Aditer on March 06, 2014, 06:24:08 PM Today, after I calculated that 700.000.000 NXT is holding by top 60 accounts I've sold all my NXT... It is impossible that this coin is worth $50.000.000 capitalization. The idea is great, but it doesn't mean that is worth so much money.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: td services on March 06, 2014, 06:47:51 PM Actually, 74 people were interested in NXT during the pre-sale, but the 74th was not allowed to invest and had the door slammed in his face while waiting to hear back from the founder for clarification on the deadline. About a week after the pre-sale was abruptly terminated with no advance warning and while someone was interested in participating, NXT was being sold at blablabla... Too late is too late that's it. Whatever if one guy wanted to buy at the last minute. This happened to XCP (counterpartyprotocol), one sender was just-on-time and two others where too late and lost their Bitcoins (http://www.blockscan.com/burn.aspx). One of the guy lost 1 full BTC (https://blockchain.info/tx/38080960fbe94f9e1fb0725f0aff8efe844ffffd1779e006630f1577ffec415c) and will never get it back, it has been burned (=lost). The guy that wanted to buy Nxt at the last minutes did not lose any Bitcoin. Instead, he and all the haters had the opportunity to buy Nxt just after on the exchange for a price 8 to 80 times cheaper than now. I know the problem here and it is not a problem about Nxt. I am going to be hard but if this few lines wake you up and change the course of your life, it is worst listening... A loser is a loser. No matter hard he try, a loser keeps failing and never face the reasons why he fails. It is always the fault of the others he says. If you didn't invest in Nxt is it not about IPO or price or anything. Stop trying to find excuses. It is because you are acting like a loser. Now get over it and live in the present moment. Stop crying and move on. Stop being a loser I've moved on, but I will not allow the statement that everyone who wanted to invest in NXT was allowed to to go unchallenged. No problem with XCP, it had a clearly defined set of rules for the pre-sale and followed through with them. Same with Mastercoin. NXT was different in that it's pre-sale was arbitrarily handled by the founder with no set deadline or cap on investment, and abruptly terminated without advance notice while someone was interested in investing and asking when the deadline was. Claims that everyone who wanted to invest in NXT was allowed to are not true. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: wakasaki808 on March 06, 2014, 07:04:03 PM Today, after I calculated that 700.000.000 NXT is holding by top 60 accounts I've sold all my NXT... It is impossible that this coin is worth $50.000.000 capitalization. The idea is great, but it doesn't mean that is worth so much money. And the Top 500 Bitcoin accounts(out of 1M Bitcoin accounts) hold 1/3 of all currently produced Bitcoin. Not much different. http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top500 If every crypto had a way to track the top accounts compared to the rest, nobody would be complaining. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: godt on March 06, 2014, 07:41:00 PM Today, after I calculated that 700.000.000 NXT is holding by top 60 accounts I've sold all my NXT... It is impossible that this coin is worth $50.000.000 capitalization. The idea is great, but it doesn't mean that is worth so much money. Do not forget. There are also exchange accounts and accounts for donations and so on Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: RawDog on March 30, 2014, 06:13:03 PM Today, after I calculated that 700.000.000 NXT is holding by top 60 accounts I've sold all my NXT... It is impossible that this coin is worth $50.000.000 capitalization. The idea is great, but it doesn't mean that is worth so much money. Do not forget. There are also exchange accounts and accounts for donations and so on Why is NXT crashing so hard now? Did these sellers really foresee the end of NXT? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Joshuar on March 30, 2014, 06:16:31 PM Once it hits 0.00008+, I'm out. Forever. Here's why: There are around 70 odd 'donors/ founders/ whatever you call them who hold 4,000,000 Nxt each (probably more). That only equals 280,000,000 Nxt, where is the rest???? Good question. Even with just these 70 individuals (excluding the 3/4 of Nxt which is probably in the hands of a smaller group of anonymous donors/ founders/ whatever you call them) they all have the opportunity to make 399 BTC at 0.0001 BTC from a 1 BTC investment. Even if you could buy at the absolute low of 0.00005 (which it isn't at), you only have the chance to double your money, but why would you want the risk to merely double your money with these HUGE whales lurking? Better yet, if it went to 0.001, they would have 3990 worth of BTC to dump, so forth. This coin has NO future potential due to the poor distribution of the coins. There are 70 reasons (probably more) to be scared every time the price goes up. At least Ripple is governed by one organisation and not a group of lucky investors which are looking to become overnight millionaires. They are just dumping their stashes on the highs, creating panic and a massive price drop and then buying back at a much cheaper price. Rinse and repeat. The price will never go anywhere and it has been highly manipulated from the start. If you don't think you were played and you are still singing the 'let me line the donor's pockets with millions because they deserve it for the risk' chant, here's a scenario which probably got you into Nxt in the first place. The great price pump of late December. Two weeks ago when that pump was happening, practically ALL of the Nxt was held internally. The developers were basically selling to themselves to artificially increase the price. When all of the volume is coming from a small group of people, who in their right mind thinks this market is not being manipulated? The bag holders know the price will go down and they are cashing out now on suckers to buy back later for cheap. Rinse and repeat. All day I have been watching large buy walls get demolished. We are talking 500k walls and so on. Those poor people are now stuck at that price point while the greedy few buy back a lot cheaper for more carnage. TOPIC BREAKDOWN FOR THE LAYMEN: - The source code was a joke - The price is crashing due to major manipulation efforts and lack of confidence - Any 'decent' profit now will make the donors extremely wealthy - 3/4 of Nxt is not accounted for Disclaimer: I own 50,000+ Nxt which will soon be GONE! I want out! We all know NXT is dead because of it's retarded distrubution. It got the award for worst distribution ever. NXT is gone, obselete..like primecoin. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: RawDog on April 13, 2014, 12:50:48 PM We all know NXT is dead because of it's retarded distrubution. It got the award for worst distribution ever. NXT is gone, obselete..like primecoin. Ain't nobody got time for Next. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Shivalein on April 13, 2014, 03:08:26 PM NXT is spread like every other coin, including BTC.
But the difference is NXT has some big innovations. You can´t talk NXT down. You are trying but you will not succeed Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: farl4web on April 14, 2014, 10:55:18 AM People who are in doubt about Nxt (shouldn't know why), look at a proposal for new design for Nxt. :)
Quote Peoples!!! What do you think? :) https://copy.com/YUWkh1K1QI4apEOf http://www.ideenfrische.de/kunden/nxt/cd/02/imagesite.png https://copy.com/hiJVuXs91Mj0cQ8v http://www.ideenfrische.de/kunden/nxt/cd/02/wallet.png https://copy.com/RMgPEEuCNQLjwhXg http://www.ideenfrische.de/kunden/nxt/cd/02/brandmockup.png Quote ...and here we go with a different logo style. https://copy.com/hieV0y9NPkbNpqJZ http://www.ideenfrische.de/kunden/nxt/cd/03/imagesite.png https://copy.com/sGIj1XoeVMoZKX9l http://www.ideenfrische.de/kunden/nxt/cd/03/wallet.png https://copy.com/1hEfkFJ08dsZ7ld4 http://www.ideenfrische.de/kunden/nxt/cd/03/brandmockup.png More info: https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=115.msg8175#msg8175 Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: td services on April 14, 2014, 06:30:10 PM These renderings are very attractive. Anyone know what program was used to create them? I've used e-book cover programs, but this one has a very extensive product line.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Lohoris on April 15, 2014, 10:32:52 AM People who are in doubt about Nxt (shouldn't know why), look at a proposal for new design for Nxt. :) This looks a lot like the NEO+BEE poor mockup (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.0) they used in their laughable IPO, so I suspect it's somehow a "mockup generator", were you just input your logo and select a few variables.Quote More info: https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=115.msg8175#msg8175 Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: RawDog on April 15, 2014, 10:48:59 AM Quote This looks a lot like the NEO+BEE poor mockup (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.0) they used in their laughable IPO...and you see how far it got Neo and Bee. Look, this is all glossy fluffy stuff. It doesn't suggest anything about the attributes of the underlying system. An awesome looking brochure won't help NXT. The reason they are taking this course is because it worked for them before. When they launched, they got loads of attention because of their 'professional look'. However, most people here can't decipher the details of a technology - so they buy the fluff. Look at Mastercoin which takes the opposite course. No fluff. No gloss. No cute memes. Mastercoiners won't even talk to you. Practically no forum. They are all too busy writing good code. Who has time for marketing bullshit? Not Mastercoin. That is for pump and dump programs. NXT is all about pretty ink like those pictures above. It is all part of the 'pump'. Here comes the 'dump'!! Nothing says 'pump and dump' more than those images above. What about the underlying technology? Don't ask about that. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: ShroomsKit_Disgrace on April 15, 2014, 10:51:32 AM L.O.L. at Rawdog. What are you talking about? Did you check https://nxtforum.org/ (https://nxtforum.org/) ? You would feel really ashamed of these words if you check the technical discussion section.
The ignorance is brave in you. ::) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Lohoris on April 15, 2014, 11:01:55 AM This looks a lot like the NEO+BEE poor mockup (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=289730.0) they used in their laughable IPO ...and you see how far it got Neo and Bee. Look, this is all glossy fluffy stuff. It doesn't suggest anything about the attributes of the underlying system. An awesome looking brochure won't help NXT. The reason they are taking this course is because it worked for them before. When they launched, they got loads of attention because of their 'professional look'. However, most people here can't decipher the details of a technology - so they buy the fluff. Look at Mastercoin which takes the opposite course. No fluff. No gloss. No cute memes. Mastercoiners won't even talk to you. Practically no forum. They are all too busy writing good code. Who has time for marketing bullshit? Not Mastercoin. That is for pump and dump programs. NXT is all about pretty ink like those pictures above. It is all part of the 'pump'. Here comes the 'dump'!! Nothing says 'pump and dump' more than those images above. What about the underlying technology? Don't ask about that. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: RawDog on April 15, 2014, 11:17:04 AM This is an interesting and possibly right point of view, but in order to correctly contextualise it, could you explain why your signature reads "Bitcoin will die soon."? its just a signature. It doesn't mean much. It is not an argument nor a thesis. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: RawDog on April 15, 2014, 11:25:58 AM The ignorance is brave in you. ::) I like that. That is cool.Look, NXT's big theory is that it saves energy. Other than that, it isn't much. Don't believe me, look at their third point on nxt.org. Point 1 'forging' - more about energy saving via no mining. Point 2 'secure and fast' - bitcoin isn't too insecure and so far the fast part isn't killing the system. Changes to come will fix that. Point 3 is just plain dump - more about 'forging'. Technical brilliance? I don't think so. China wastes more energy in a single day at a steel factory melting metal than bitcoin uses in three months. Energy isn't really the problem. NXT adds nothing in the way of security. 'eliminates 51% attack'. Ha! Bitcoin doesn't actually have a real 51% attack problem. That is just a fun thing to talk about. Why solve problems which don't exist? NXT is a waste of time/effort. It brings nothing new of value. It will never displace bitcoin. It is exactly like Beta vs. VHS - even if you successfully argue that it is technically better, it is so marginal that it won't convince even one person to switch. The infrastructure around bitcoin is set. It won't switch over to NXT ever. NXT is dead. Move on. Your forum has many interesting discussions about 'technical advantage'. This is a great place to argue forever. But just like Betamax - nobody fucking cares and those technical advantages are so insignificant that they will never motivate people to move over. Next. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: TrollboxChamp on April 15, 2014, 11:54:00 AM I would never and will never buy NXT. It goes against everything crypto stands for.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on April 15, 2014, 11:57:27 AM Bitcoin doesn't actually have a real 51% attack problem. That is just a fun thing to talk about. Quote What about the underlying technology? Don't ask about that. ::) Looks like you don't understand the underlying technology of bitcoin. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: RawDog on April 15, 2014, 12:21:09 PM Bitcoin doesn't actually have a real 51% attack problem. That is just a fun thing to talk about. Quote What about the underlying technology? Don't ask about that. ::) Looks like you don't understand the underlying technology of bitcoin. NXT solves nothing. If they managed to rid the world of 51% attacks - I say bravo! No go bust some ghosts too. It isn't a real problem. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: devphp on April 15, 2014, 12:44:56 PM NXT solves nothing. If they managed to rid the world of 51% attacks - I say bravo! No go bust some ghosts too. It isn't a real problem. This is not a problem for bitcoin now, because bitcoin to traditional economy is still like a fly to an elephant. As soon as it gets too large and starts interfering with established order, the large mining farms (the only ones left who can afford to buy mining equipment) are very likely to be taken over and/or shut down and bitcoin network security and decentralized model will be compromised. What? You say it's not democratic. Oh please. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: ShroomsKit_Disgrace on April 15, 2014, 12:48:05 PM It goes against everything crypto stands for. Care to explain your strong "statement"? At a first glance it sounds like bullshit from a hater.... Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on April 15, 2014, 01:10:31 PM Bitcoin doesn't actually have a real 51% attack problem. That is just a fun thing to talk about. Quote What about the underlying technology? Don't ask about that. ::) Looks like you don't understand the underlying technology of bitcoin. NXT solves nothing. If they managed to rid the world of 51% attacks - I say bravo! No go bust some ghosts too. It isn't a real problem. People tend to forget quite fast... http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ghash.io-closer-to-51.png Please note that even with 42% you can easily perform a double spending attack, the chances of succeeding are just smaller than with 51%. Users are just lucky that ghash.io didn't want to hurt bitcoin. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: RawDog on April 15, 2014, 04:42:26 PM Care to explain your strong "statement"? At a first glance it sounds like bullshit from a hater.... Do you defend everything negative against NXT? Are you their #1 cheerleader?Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: ShroomsKit_Disgrace on April 15, 2014, 04:57:37 PM Do you defend everything negative against NXT? Are you their #1 cheerleader? Oppositely, I defend NXT against "everything negative". In fact, NXT will be the reason of your signature to come true. ;) Edit: Watch my funny videos, I've been like 2years discrediting myself and allowing the whole internet community to laugh at my funny face. MY GOD! Didn't notice I was talking with such a youtube star till now!! Are you really that well-known clown?? Man, I am so glad you have some words for me despite of your popularity. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: ShroomsKit_Disgrace on April 16, 2014, 07:00:35 AM I am sorry Rawdog, I was so excited to meet the internet celebrity that I forgot my manners... I owe you an apology. ;)
BTW, apart from defending NXT with my life I have a work so I have not got enough time to elaborate an answer and kill all your pointless statements. Consequently, I will just copy-paste a paper of a BTT user that explains really well the issue: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E_ToOMG2l1XThx6YnyXEajXaf6H1k2yjq8XkAF0ScB4/mobilebasic?pli=1 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E_ToOMG2l1XThx6YnyXEajXaf6H1k2yjq8XkAF0ScB4/mobilebasic?pli=1) Regards. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: salsacz on April 16, 2014, 09:18:01 AM why is Bitcoin dead and Nxt will be next Bitcoin? Read the theses, see all numbers:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J8uhdshu9epGRrQHBaloGc4itdvuAHZDAUtNDjOhz-8/edit Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Shivalein on April 16, 2014, 07:27:47 PM The coming features of NXT will drop like bombs on the cryptoworld. for example: Decentralized Alias System, Decentralized DNS, Arbitrary Messaging, Distributed Storage, Voting System, Reputation System, Smart Contracts Tell me just one coin which has just ONE innovation. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: crazy_rabbit on April 21, 2014, 05:44:10 PM The coming features of NXT will drop like bombs on the cryptoworld. for example: Decentralized Alias System, Decentralized DNS, Arbitrary Messaging, Distributed Storage, Voting System, Reputation System, Smart Contracts Tell me just one coin which has just ONE innovation. Namecoin does the DNS. Bitmessage does the messaging. Mastercoin (and I guess bitcoin to some extent) does smart contracts. I'm not sure what the alias system is supposed to be, nor the reputation. Although I suspect built in reputation is a bad thing. All reputation systems in bitcoin land have failed eventually. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: superresistant on April 22, 2014, 08:16:55 AM Then why is Mastercoin price so high and NXT price keeps falling and falling? Mastercoin is high because of maidsafe scam. NXT is right now, one of the most stable crypto. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: jacastro on April 22, 2014, 09:29:46 AM Another way to look at it is...if it is falling, is the current NXT price attractive to get right now? Is it a good time to get in?
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: ShroomsKit_Disgrace on April 22, 2014, 09:38:07 AM Another way to look at it is...if it is falling, is the current NXT price attractive to get right now? Is it a good time to get in? In 2months the current nxt price will look like a complete joke. Several developments ready to be launched soon. Actually, AE has a date for mainet realease. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: EvilDave on April 22, 2014, 10:18:57 AM The coming features of NXT will drop like bombs on the cryptoworld. for example: Decentralized Alias System, Decentralized DNS, Arbitrary Messaging, Distributed Storage, Voting System, Reputation System, Smart Contracts Tell me just one coin which has just ONE innovation. NXT price is sliding, like all pretty much all crypto. BTC is also on the fall, so no surprise there. In the last couple of months NXT has been amazingly stable, it's held steady at #6-#7 (on market cap) for a very long time. In this time, NXT has been getting some very cool stuff together and making sure that it works properly. Once the Asset Exchange in in place on mainnet.......NXT is going to start becoming the one crypto to rule them all. NXT is nowhere near finished yet, what you see right now is only NXT's first generation feature set. (btw, dont forget that NXT will include pretty much all of MaidSafe's functionality) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: qqNxt on April 22, 2014, 10:49:15 AM +1 to nxt!
i have invested 10,000 and i will be holding until it is worth 100,000 then i'm starting a bussiness using the nxt platform. when nxt goes mainstream, all my cash will be in nxt and not fiat. Because fuck suppression of technology! We need to move forward! The World is a Better Place with Crypto. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: farl4web on April 28, 2014, 10:10:23 AM Dit you see the new Fresh And Shiny Nxt thread?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=587007 Lot of good things to come! :) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: lophie on April 28, 2014, 06:34:24 PM I just noticed the dilution. I am very disappointed. NXT has no future but as a SCAM coin because of this. It is gicing more trouble than what it is trying to fix.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: farl4web on April 28, 2014, 07:15:10 PM Pff, you're going post your FUD here too... :-X
Please discuss (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=587007) instead of making accusations. A lot of devs have been thinking hard about nxtQuant. I'm curious about hearing your arguments. Thanks. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: lophie on April 28, 2014, 07:30:00 PM Pff, you're going post your FUD here too... :-X Please discuss (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=587007) instead of making accusations. A lot of devs have been thinking hard about nxtQuant. I'm curious about hearing your arguments. Thanks. I am there posting on the main thread. Actually I also posted my concerns here because I was wondering if the OP have some insight about this since he ABSOLUTELY called it out on the price falling. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: farl4web on April 28, 2014, 07:42:43 PM If you like, you're welcome to join https://www.nxtforum.org and discuss your thoughts. We need to make everything about Nxt better all the time. :)
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 04:51:50 PM Disclaimer: I own 50,000+ Nxt which will soon be GONE! I want out! Looks like you made a smart move. Selling 50k Nxt on January 2014 got you 5.34BTC and if you tried dumping Nxt today you would only get 2.99 BTC. Thus even with Bitcoin severely capitulating other crypto like Nxt is performing much worse and is in its death throws dropping to number 9 in market capitalization and as soon as ethereum is released and other assets like storj get released is likely to keep dropping to 11th and than 12th in a few months. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: jones_ on January 17, 2015, 06:53:31 PM Disclaimer: I own 50,000+ Nxt which will soon be GONE! I want out! Looks like you made a smart move. Selling 50k Nxt on January 2014 got you 5.34BTC and if you tried dumping Nxt today you would only get 2.99 BTC. Thus even with Bitcoin severely capitulating other crypto like Nxt is performing much worse and is in its death throws dropping to number 9 in market capitalization and as soon as ethereum is released and other assets like storj get released is likely to keep dropping to 11th and than 12th in a few months. if you want to be rich by doing nothing, then your correct, nxt is not for you, manyy other cryptos would work much better for that. but if you want to be on the cutting edge of decentralized crypto developments and build something really cool on a platform that was made to house and decentralize everything, then nxt is for you. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 07:13:43 PM if you want to be rich by doing nothing, then your correct, nxt is not for you, manyy other cryptos would work much better for that. but if you want to be on the cutting edge of decentralized crypto developments and build something really cool on a platform that was made to house and decentralize everything, then nxt is for you. How do you define cutting edge if most developers and development is occurring in Bitcoin based start ups, projects , assets, and research? Are there any features/abilities NxT has that bitcoin doesn't besides discussing variations in algos? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: jones_ on January 17, 2015, 07:21:19 PM if you want to be rich by doing nothing, then your correct, nxt is not for you, manyy other cryptos would work much better for that. but if you want to be on the cutting edge of decentralized crypto developments and build something really cool on a platform that was made to house and decentralize everything, then nxt is for you. How do you define cutting edge if most developers and development is occurring in Bitcoin based start ups, projects , assets, and research? Are there any features/abilities NxT has that bitcoin doesn't besides discussing variations in algos? differences in algos is pretty big, but there are a few key differences aside from the pos/tf situation. nxt has a thriving asset exchange with more good assets than any other platform. we have the monetary system, which can be used like a side chains like system next up in the queue is voting system, a way to get voter consensus in a decentralized way, then there are 2 phased transactions, which are a very cool type of multisig. nxt has flexibility where bitcoin doesn't as it is using code from today, not from 6 years ago. It is light and agile at least this is my take, feel free to have any opinion you want. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 07:56:50 PM differences in algos is pretty big, but there are a few key differences aside from the pos/tf situation. Yes, there are indeed some strengths and weaknesses to PoS. nxt has a thriving asset exchange with more good assets than any other platform. If you are just discussing quantity of assets you would be correct, market cap assets would clearly go with Bitcoin as Mastercoin/counterparty/couloured coins all are bitcoin assets. The need for all these assets, debatable. http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/ NxT SuperNET Nxt $ 2,614,635 CoinoUSD Nxt $ 940,147 Bitcoin MaidSafeCoin Mastercoin $ 12,375,317 Gems Counterparty $ 1,502,094 Swarm Counterparty $ 1,398,097 Storjcoin X Counterparty $ 837,643 we have the monetary system, which can be used like a side chains like system Bitcoin has those too: http://coincreator.net/ http://build-a-co.in/ next up in the queue is voting system, a way to get voter consensus in a decentralized way, Bitcoin has those too: http://www.bitcongress.org/ https://blog.agoravoting.com/index.php/2013/11/28/a-bitcoin-based-completely-distributed-voting-system/ https://coinist.co/counterparty/counterparty-assets then there are 2 phased transactions, which are a very cool type of multisig. This is just bitcoin multisig and nTimelock or nested mutisigs ... nothing new. nxt has flexibility where bitcoin doesn't as it is using code from today, not from 6 years ago. It is light and agile Over 60% of satoshi code has been changed and bitcoin is constantly evolving whether you are aware of not. Java is not light and Agile compared to C++ and Bitcoin has multiple stacks and implementations interacting with the blockchain unlike NxT. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: sadface on January 17, 2015, 09:18:55 PM lets not forget the decentralized marketplace
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: cryptardio on January 17, 2015, 09:20:47 PM i would not advice drop nxt this year. they have most features of all that work great. their wallet is amazing. 1.48
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 09:37:21 PM lets not forget the decentralized marketplace Like bitbay, http://voluntary.net/bitmarkets/, and https://openbazaar.org/ with bitcoin? About the PoS being secure.... PoS proponents said it couldn't be done and kept insinuating that one would have to purchase up most of the currency to perform the attack but here is one example of a successful attack being committed on a real coin that was staking at 10 %: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=897493.0 apexcoin attack successful with 0.07% of available supply (yes small, but the stake to destroy the coin was nothing!) I'll tell you my theories anyway: the two PhDs who wrote that research have a clear nxt bias. Look at their hidden multibranch section: they say that they got 3/20 of 500 blocks with 10% stake. 3/20 of 500 is 75 blocks. They got 75 blocks! if people wait for 6 confirmations, I only need 6 blocks, not 75. So I can do with much less than 10% stake. Of course 10% stake means 10% of actively forging coins, which means 10% of 10% of supply. So, much less than 1% of supply to double spend. Of course that's still a few hundred BTCs for NXT so I'll start with a smaller coin. I already bought a few coins... just wait until age is accumulated... Other PoS coins are going to be targeted soon and with an end goal in attacking NxT eventually. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 17, 2015, 09:47:02 PM Other PoS coins are going to be targeted soon and with an end goal in attacking NxT eventually. Luke-Jr ultimately proved that PoW is flawed by successfully killing few PoW coins. PS: Others can use the same tricks as you. :D Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 09:58:21 PM Other PoS coins are going to be targeted soon and with an end goal in attacking NxT eventually. Luke-Jr ultimately proved that PoW is flawed by successfully killing few PoW coins. PS: Others can use the same tricks as you. :D Agreed. Weaker PoW coins are vulnerable too. PoW is far from perfect but because of Bitcoins total hashrate it is far more secure than other coins. I have been advocating adding a TaPoS layer in addition to PoW to bitcoin to further strengthen it, so I'm certainly not a PoW ideologue. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Hollowman338 on January 17, 2015, 11:22:55 PM I just noticed the dilution. I am very disappointed. NXT has no future but as a SCAM coin because of this. It is gicing more trouble than what it is trying to fix. So this champion altcoin NXT is a scam because they've delivered time and time again, while scam shitcoins have risen and descended into ruin all around them, yet NXT remains.. ..and you call it a scam. You're a fucking moron, and I wonder if you realize that you've ruined whatever credibility you might have had by making that statement. Do you realize it? Does it physically hurt to be that stupid? I'm genuinely curious.. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Damelon on January 17, 2015, 11:33:47 PM Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 11:40:37 PM I just noticed the dilution. I am very disappointed. NXT has no future but as a SCAM coin because of this. It is gicing more trouble than what it is trying to fix. So this champion altcoin NXT is a scam because they've delivered time and time again, while scam shitcoins have risen and descended into ruin all around them, yet NXT remains.. ..and you call it a scam. You're a fucking moron, and I wonder if you realize that you've ruined whatever credibility you might have had by making that statement. Do you realize it? Does it physically hurt to be that stupid? I'm genuinely curious.. NxT may have had a questionable ICO and distribution, but certainly should not be considered a scam coin at this point. The coin has been dying a slow death over the past year, even in relation to bitcoin's capitulation so probably isn't the best investment. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Hollowman338 on January 17, 2015, 11:46:58 PM I just noticed the dilution. I am very disappointed. NXT has no future but as a SCAM coin because of this. It is gicing more trouble than what it is trying to fix. So this champion altcoin NXT is a scam because they've delivered time and time again, while scam shitcoins have risen and descended into ruin all around them, yet NXT remains.. ..and you call it a scam. You're a fucking moron, and I wonder if you realize that you've ruined whatever credibility you might have had by making that statement. Do you realize it? Does it physically hurt to be that stupid? I'm genuinely curious.. NxT may have had a questionable ICO and distribution, but certainly should not be considered a scam coin at this point. The coin has been dying a slow death over the past year, even in relation to bitcoin's capitulation so probably isn't the best investment. So please, enlighten us. What shitcoin that you're bagholding would you suggest everyone invest in? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: m30188 on January 17, 2015, 11:53:55 PM I just noticed the dilution. I am very disappointed. NXT has no future but as a SCAM coin because of this. It is gicing more trouble than what it is trying to fix. So this champion altcoin NXT is a scam because they've delivered time and time again, while scam shitcoins have risen and descended into ruin all around them, yet NXT remains.. ..and you call it a scam. You're a fucking moron, and I wonder if you realize that you've ruined whatever credibility you might have had by making that statement. Do you realize it? Does it physically hurt to be that stupid? I'm genuinely curious.. NxT may have had a questionable ICO and distribution, but certainly should not be considered a scam coin at this point. The coin has been dying a slow death over the past year, even in relation to bitcoin's capitulation so probably isn't the best investment. So please, enlighten us. What shitcoin that you're bagholding would you suggest everyone invest in? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Damelon on January 17, 2015, 11:56:00 PM He already said Nxt can't be considered a scam.
As to dying a slow death, the price in relation to BTC doesn't support this claim. Unless it's implied all coins are dying a slow death. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 17, 2015, 11:58:47 PM ...I'm certainly not a PoW ideologue. I don't believe you :D :D :D Would you like some suggestions of other old threads to dig up for tomorrow? ;D Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: alani123 on January 18, 2015, 12:00:18 AM Doesn't it seem a bit suspicious that the mass influx of people praising NXT has finally faded away? I don't know what to make of it but I think that it's quite obvious how we went from lots of people praising NXT to this. Did the developers stop paying the shills or something? ::)
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 12:01:29 AM So please, enlighten us. What shitcoin that you're bagholding would you suggest everyone invest in? I used to mine litecoin in the early days and was originally 80% BTC 20% litecoin, but sold all of it for BTC. Now I have 99.9% BTC and .1% namecoin (for domain and testing purposes) As far as investing, I would suggest people stick with BTC for the time being but balance their investments with non crypto such as land, businesses(possibly crypto related), gold, and stable forms of fiat. Any other questions, sir? He already said Nxt can't be considered a scam. As to dying a slow death, the price in relation to BTC doesn't support this claim. Unless it's implied all coins are dying a slow death. Bitcoin is capitulating as well, Nxt at an accelerated rate(dropping from 3rd in market cap to 8 or 9th: http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nxt/ Keep in mind the price line is in relation to BTC. Discounting newly pumped ICOs, not all coins are capitulating. Much to my chagrin, Ripple is growing in value. ...I'm certainly not a PoW ideologue. I don't believe you :D :D :D Would you like some suggestions of other old threads to dig up for tomorrow? ;D That is why I have been advocating for a TaPoS security layer added to bitcoin over many threads and creating new threads questioning 100% PoW in Bitcoin like this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=873646.0 ??? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 12:12:19 AM Doesn't it seem a bit suspicious that the mass influx of people praising NXT has finally faded away? I don't know what to make of it but I think that it's quite obvious how we went from lots of people praising NXT to this. Did the developers stop paying the shills or something? ::) They faded away in March 2014... when nxtforum.org was launched. And we all went over there after creating the biggest altcoin thread bitcointalk had ever seen. Whether you like it or not, Nxt is being adopted. And used. The blockchain data shows ever increasing adoption, I don't think anybody expected Bitcoin levels of transactions after just 1 year. But they are increasing. https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_charts I am using May 2014 as that was the launch of the first major feature users could use, Asset Exchange. Transactions per day has gone up more than ten fold. May 14: 200 - 500 transactions per day Jan 15: 5500 - 7000 transactions per day The growing steepness of the curve in Cumulative transactions per day shows how transactions are increasing at a faster and faster rate. With the transactions per day increasing, the Average transactions per block per day is also rising, which is good for forgers. May 14: 0.3 - 0.6 transactions per block per day Jan 15: 8 - 11 transactions per block per day No crypto shows signs of wide adoption (even Bitcoin). Nxt does show positive, concrete signs of growing adoption and at an ever increasing rate. Something must be going right ;D I have noticed a couple of guys pushing this "Nxt is dying" vibe over the last day or so. :-\. The facts are that people like Nxt and people use it. The blockchain data and the standard 100+ people online at nxtforum.org supports this. Open your eyes ;D Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Damelon on January 18, 2015, 12:13:47 AM Doesn't it seem a bit suspicious that the mass influx of people praising NXT has finally faded away? I don't know what to make of it but I think that it's quite obvious how we went from lots of people praising NXT to this. Did the developers stop paying the shills or something? ::) Nope. Most decided (like a lot of other communities) that BCT has a tendency to be vicious even when not warranted and left. Good for all. A lot still hang around and drop in on discussions that seem remotely civil and otherwise not. No use expending energy on people who have made up their minds already. :) Bitcoin is capitulating as well, Nxt at an accelerated rate(dropping from 3rd in market cap to 8 or 9th: http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nxt/ Keep in mind the price line is in relation to BTC. Discounting newly pumped ICOs, not all coins are capitulating. Much to my chagrin Ripple is growing in value. Price of Nxt since september (in BTC) has dropped about 33%. If calculated from December 2013, it's about the same. The cap dropped together with BTC. The drop from 3 to 8 or 9 also is due to the rise of both XRP and BTS and Stellar. So instead of dropping, we've been overtaken, which is something different. Your explanation didn't allow for the new players in the top 10. :) Otherwise, referring to the post above. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 12:17:25 AM Doesn't it seem a bit suspicious that the mass influx of people praising NXT has finally faded away? I don't know what to make of it but I think that it's quite obvious how we went from lots of people praising NXT to this. Did the developers stop paying the shills or something? ::) They are still here and regularly create new threads in the discussion section or resurect old threads criticing Bitcoin. They are just more subtle in their approach now talking about the insecurities of Bitcoin , the wastefulness of mining , the problem with inflation, ect... I have noticed a couple of guys pushing this "Nxt is dying" vibe over the last day or so. :-\. The facts are that people like Nxt and people use it. The blockchain data and the standard 100+ people online at nxtforum.org supports this. Open your eyes ;D There has been some push back because of the increasing amount of trolls attacking this forum with new accounts. There are somethings I like about NxT but I do tend to get annoyed that many alt users have been trolling our sections and attacking Bitcoin. I haven't gone so far as to repaying in kind on their boards but have started to push back here. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 12:24:24 AM ...I'm certainly not a PoW ideologue. I don't believe you :D :D :D Would you like some suggestions of other old threads to dig up for tomorrow? ;D That is why I have been advocating for a TaPoS security layer added to bitcoin over many threads and creating new threads questioning 100% PoW in Bitcoin like this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=873646.0 ??? I don't know. Doing what you can to keep POW going? ;) There has been some push back because of the increasing amount of trolls attacking this forum with new accounts. There are somethings I like about NxT but I do tend to get annoyed that many alt users have been trolling our sections and attacking Bitcoin. I haven't gone so far as to repaying in kind on their boards but have started to push back here. I notice you say alt users and not Nxt users...So you have tomorrow's dead thread already lined up for resurrection then? :D Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 12:28:14 AM Price of Nxt since september (in BTC) has dropped about 33%. If calculated from December 2013, it's about the same. The cap dropped together with BTC. The drop from 3 to 8 or 9 also is due to the rise of both XRP and BTS and Stellar. So instead of dropping, we've been overtaken, which is something different. Your explanation didn't allow for the new players in the top 10. :) Otherwise, referring to the post above. I suppose we can both cherry pick dates. So NxT is either languishing or capitulating depending upon the date selected in relation to BTC. Dropping in market cap is a sign of another type of death, losing market/mindshare which is worse than price. I notice you say alt users and not Nxt users...So you have tomorrow's dead thread already lined up for resurrection then? :D Sure, I'll probably attack paycoin some more, and attack some bitcoin business more. No rest for the wicked , eh? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Damelon on January 18, 2015, 12:36:00 AM Price of Nxt since september (in BTC) has dropped about 33%. If calculated from December 2013, it's about the same. The cap dropped together with BTC. The drop from 3 to 8 or 9 also is due to the rise of both XRP and BTS and Stellar. So instead of dropping, we've been overtaken, which is something different. Your explanation didn't allow for the new players in the top 10. :) Otherwise, referring to the post above. I suppose we can both cherry pick dates. So NxT is either languishing or capitulating depending upon the date selected in relation to BTC. Dropping in market cap is a sign of another type of death, losing market/mindshare which is worse than price. Moving the goal posts in a discussion is not really nice. You mentioned cap, I counter with cap. You then introduce a new variable of mindshare, with which I can do nothing else but disagree. Maybe here on bitcointalk, but the world of crypto is so much larger than BCT (or BTT for preference). Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 12:46:15 AM Moving the goal posts in a discussion is not really nice. You mentioned cap, I counter with cap. You then introduce a new variable of mindshare, with which I can do nothing else but disagree. Maybe here on bitcointalk, but the world of crypto is so much larger than BCT (or BTT for preference). I was agreeing with you that if you look at the charts NxT isn't decreasing in value at all dates with respect to Bitcoin and I was merely looking at the last 6 months before. With regards to losing marketshare/mindshare I will again admit I was somewhat incorrect as losing market cap does indicate a decrease in marketshare in our ecosystem while other currencies and assets take over, it can be misleading as the whole crypto-ecosystem is growing including NxT. Thus Nxt is increasing mindshare worldwide, but decreasing marketshare within crypto-currencies. ;) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Damelon on January 18, 2015, 12:50:35 AM Moving the goal posts in a discussion is not really nice. You mentioned cap, I counter with cap. You then introduce a new variable of mindshare, with which I can do nothing else but disagree. Maybe here on bitcointalk, but the world of crypto is so much larger than BCT (or BTT for preference). I was agreeing with you that if you look at the charts NxT isn't decreasing in value at all dates with respect to Bitcoin and I was merely looking at the last 6 months before. With regards to losing marketshare/mindshare I will again admit I was somewhat incorrect as losing market cap does indicate a decrease in marketshare in our ecosystem while other currencies and assets take over, it can be misleading as the whole crypto-ecosystem is growing including NxT. Thus Nxt is increasing mindshare worldwide, but decreasing marketshare within crypto-currencies. ;) I can't say I think that is a bad thing ;) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 12:57:15 AM I can't say I think that is a bad thing ;) Yes it is indeed a bad thing:Look at what has infested our ecosystem within the top 10... 2 debt coins (Ripple/Stellar), a Meme coin (Doge) and a scam coin (Paycoin). Despite languishing, at least Bitshares and Nxt have real developers and ingenuity behind their projects. You have to respect that. The rest of our ecosystem has been overun by PoW cloudmining ponzi's and PoS ICO scams. And those that aren't directly involved in the scams are fine with profiting off of them because hey, may as well make some money off that affiliate program or day trading on the ignorance of the uninitiated. The whole ecosystem needs a colon cleansing. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: jones_ on January 18, 2015, 01:23:57 AM I can't say I think that is a bad thing ;) Yes it is indeed a bad thing:Look at what has infested our ecosystem within the top 10... 2 debt coins (Ripple/Stellar), a Meme coin (Doge) and a scam coin (Paycoin). Despite languishing, at least Bitshares and Nxt have real developers and ingenuity behind their projects. You have to respect that. The rest of our ecosystem has been overun by PoW cloudmining ponzi's and PoS ICO scams. And those that aren't directly involved in the scams are fine with profiting off of them because hey, may as well make some money off that affiliate program or day trading on the ignorance of the uninitiated. The whole ecosystem needs a colon cleansing. its true that most the alt coins at the top are long term scams and short term scams, and mostly copy coins, but there are some good ones and original ideas. These will eventually be weeded out and only the good ones will remain. nxt is not better or worse than bitcoin at least not at the moment, its just different, and to keep crypto moving forward we need lots of different. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: juicyjuice87 on January 18, 2015, 06:08:12 AM I just noticed the dilution. I am very disappointed. NXT has no future but as a SCAM coin because of this. It is gicing more trouble than what it is trying to fix. I know your joking because no one can be this fucking stupid Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 18, 2015, 08:32:12 AM I know your joking because no one can be this fucking stupid He was not joking. He sold his NXT right before the rise and now feels that all the others cooperated to scam him. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Damelon on January 18, 2015, 12:04:01 PM I just noticed the dilution. I am very disappointed. NXT has no future but as a SCAM coin because of this. It is gicing more trouble than what it is trying to fix. I know your joking because no one can be this fucking stupid Look at the post date ::) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 02:42:09 PM Why the hell do we need this old thread in here ? The ongoing fight between NxT and other groups are a joke... Possible Bitshares think people are stupid in here Yes, here is an interesting article from Daniel Larimer: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/Decentralization-of-Nxt-vs-BitShares/ Bitcoin also has its own set of problems with decentralization with the centralization of mining and full nodes dropping off. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 03:24:07 PM Why the hell do we need this old thread in here ? The ongoing fight between NxT and other groups are a joke... Possible Bitshares think people are stupid in here Yes, here is an interesting article from Daniel Larimer: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/Decentralization-of-Nxt-vs-BitShares/ Bitcoin also has its own set of problems with decentralization with the centralization of mining and full nodes dropping off. Hmm, I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. What do you think about this article and why do you post it in a dead thread? This thread isn't dead, I resuscitated it as a point in reflection that the OP made the right decision from an investment perspective as evidenced by the facts. I am suggesting that many top crypto currencies including Bitcoin have problems with lack of decentralization. On topic - The fact that 60% of all blocks within NxT are produced by only 15 accounts is troubling. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 18, 2015, 03:34:31 PM I'm inclined to think that since you reopened this thread, are posting this (very subjective) article, and always stress the possible weaknesses of Nxt or PoS in general, even if they are very unprobable, that you want to scare users away from Nxt, even if it means promoting another (D)PoS system.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 03:42:52 PM I'm inclined to think that since you reopened this thread, are posting this (very subjective) article, and always stress the possible weaknesses of Nxt or PoS in general, even if they are very unprobable, that you want to scare users away from Nxt, even if it means promoting another (D)PoS system. Why assume anything when I have been open and honest with my intentions from the get go. Lets re-iterate: 1) I am biased towards Bitcoin and would suggest everyone stay away from all other alts at the moment 2) Of all the variations of PoS , I prefer TaPoS with weak subjectivity and would think that it is a good thing if a TaPoS layer is added to Bitcoin 3) I prefer Nxt PoS algo over Bitshares DPoS , although Bitshares does have some advantages as expressed in the article and vice versa. 4) I resurrected this thread precisely because I think it is good to review the historical facts and to indeed warn users that NxT isn't a recommended investment 5) I don't think NxT is a scam coin or pump and dump alt despite the questionable ICO, but the fact that between 4-14 users have as much as 50% stake is problematic and will hurt NxT in the future. There is no hidden agenda. I will openly admit and discuss my intentions. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 03:51:07 PM In response to that (very sloppy) article:
Today I saw http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/Decentralization-of-Nxt-vs-BitShares/ and became interested by the title enough to spend some time on reading. The article is related to http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/07/The-Most-Decentralized-Proof-of-Stake-System/ and the both analyze the same phenomenon (decentralization), so I will treat them as a single article. I'd like to comment some things mentioned in the articles. Quote Today the numbers are in for Nxt with data from their very own block explorer. These numbers show that 60% of all blocks are produced by just 15 people. I believe "people" means "accounts", we don't know how many people behind these accounts. There can be only 4 of them, or 400 (yes, one of the accounts can be controlled by a company which has its own hierarchy). Quote ...I found enough block producers that were above 1% and less than 2% that I can safely conclude that after 720 blocks less than 101 unique block signers have confirmed the block. I see a reference to the 101 delegates. I'd like to point that 101 is not a big number, someone could successfully control 10 such delegates or 20 delegates could collude. I can safely bet that the 101 delegates distribution follows Pareto's Principle that states that "80 delegates are controlled by 20 entities" (numbers may vary). The point of "101 is not a big number" is that order of magnitude of this number (let's write it as 99 + 2) is roughly the same as deviation caused by external factors. When a measured value has the same order of magnitude as errors of measurement scientists trash such measurements. The comparison of number of forgers and number of delegates in a 720-block window doesn't make sense to me because of this very reason. Quote What is even more interesting is the overall speed of the network. The Nxt blockchain aims for 1 minute blocks, but on average gets only one block every two minutes. You can see this on their blocks-per-day chart. It's a long story why we have 2-minute blocks now, it doesn't influence distribution of forgers among forged blocks though and should be discarded. Quote Our delegates are far more reliable with near 100% participation compared to Nxt forgers at about 50% participation. A number would be much better. One could argue that it's not "far more" but rather "a little bit more". Quote For Nxt to have a block confirmed by 101 unique individuals would require 7 hours best case. This is an incorrect statement. Block generation and block confirmation are different things. All nodes confirm every single block indirectly by agreeing to propagate it over the network. All merchants confirm every single block indirectly by accepting money sent to them recently. All users confirm every single block indirectly by including the reference to a block generated 20 minutes back in their transactions. Quote If BitShares were to lose 50% of its delegates all at once due to a government crackdown the remaining 50 delegates would still be producing a more secure, decentralized, and distributed ledger with greater decentralization per minute than every other blockchain on the market. I see a violation of CAP theorem there (if BitShares are decentralized). How do you know that a blockchain generated by remaining 50 delegates is legit while a blockchain generated by other 50 delegates is not? Quote For the sake of this article, I am going to define decentralization as the total number of unique individuals participating in the validation process such that no one individual is responsible for a disproportionate amount of blocks. You have the right to define decentralization in such the way, but practical usefulness of this definition is quite low. It assumes that all individuals are equal in their power and their intentions to save the current state of things. One person who is able to protect blockchain against a reorg is more valuable than 100 others who are unable to do it. Quote If you want to have a million users participate in the consensus process then you will require a million computers all connected to the internet and consuming bandwidth. No, we will not. Imagine that one of the nodes is a computer controlled by 1000 people (a company). In Nxt users without computers take part in the consensus too, via Economic Clustering (though it's almost not used now). Quote Each additional validator provides less and less value to the network despite costing the network the same. It's true only for a system with a bad architecture. O(N) should be replaced by O(log N). I'm almost sure that Bitcoin, BitShares and Nxt networks are all follow O(log N) because nodes send packets to a fixed number of peers. Quote To cover operating expenses a crypto currency network must charge transaction fees. Why? If usage of a cryptocurrency network generates extra profit itself then fees can be as small as it's enough for fighting spam. Hashcash could be used to remove fees completely. Quote These early proof of stake systems claim that they have greater decentralization than BitShares. These systems can claim nothing. Only some of their users can. I skipped the rest of the article because there are already so much disagreements that the rest of the math from the article is worthless. PS: It would be great to see comments on comments... Read through the rest of that thread and you will find these blogs are written by a developer who hasn't implemented solutions to issues that have already been understood and solved (Byantine Generals problem). Right now, Come-from-Beyond's modelling sshows the bloggers crypto is vulnerable to attack from just 22 nodes (he voluntarily admits he doesn't know the theory behind cryptos, another referred to theory as 'ivory tower' development). Bitcoin only needs a handful of pool operators to collude. While all crypto is bootstrapping, I think it would be wise not to throw stones when we all live in glass houses. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 18, 2015, 03:52:43 PM 4) I resurrected this thread precisely because I think it is good to review the historical facts and to indeed warn users that NxT isn't a recommended investment The logic of this statements seems to be a little bit flawed. If I claim that Bitcoin is a bad investment and you claim the opposite then one of us will be right in 6 months. This doesn't mean that one of us is an expert and our opinion is worth anything. Do you see the point? If you imply that Nxt will repeat the same trend then it's not backed by anything. More probably that 1 BTC will plummet that much that Nxt will be completely unpegged and will start climbing up on its own. Your turn. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 03:59:34 PM While all crypto is bootstrapping, I think it would be wise not to throw stones when we all live in glass houses. The stones are and will be continued to be thrown at my own house. I am quite vocal about Bitcoins security problems, regardless of it remaining the most secure coin. When judging the security of a coin there are many other aspects to consider such as the amount of peer review, the amount of nodes, the amount of implementations and stacks, the amount of researchers auditing, the amount of developers, the total market cap which incentivizes would be attackers from exploiting the currency, ect.... That response to the article has an apologist tone and while we don't know, and cannot possibly know there are 4-14 users controlling 50% of NxT stake there is good evidence to suggest this. The logic of this statements seems to be a little bit flawed. If I claim that Bitcoin is a bad investment and you claim the opposite then one of us will be right in 6 months. This doesn't mean that one of us is an expert and our opinion is worth anything. Do you see the point? If you imply that Nxt will repeat the same trend then it's not backed by anything. More probably that 1 BTC will plummet that much that Nxt will be completely unpegged and will start climbing up on its own. Your turn. I will go further than that and suggest past market performance does not necessarily indicate future returns. For all we know NxT could topple all other coins in a month , extremely unlikely but hypothetically possible. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: autodiv on January 18, 2015, 04:01:06 PM I am a holder and buyer of NXT simply because of the speed of development by the core team.
At least these individuals are serious about releasing new features in a timely fashion and that is what keeps serious competitors ahead of their not as serious foes. Look at the decentralized asset exchange and monetary system features and how much they can help the ecosystem grow because of the amount of economic activity (true value) they can spawn. A lot of very important economic activity will surround the NXT cryptocurrency ecosystem because of the foundation they have laid and are laying. Just my 2 cents! Does anyone use cents anymore? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 18, 2015, 04:04:15 PM Quote review the historical Review historical opinions after half a year? very altruistic. To each his own motives. Your strategy is to take the wind out of somebodys sails by weakening your own stance. i.e.: I don't have a hidden agenda and it's not a scam per se, but ico was skewed, stake distribution is centralized, etc. etc. All your points are subjective. Is an ipo skewed when it's been open for 1.5 months? What is a "good" distrbution? Having no hidden agenda doesn't mean having no agenda. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 18, 2015, 04:07:34 PM I am quite vocal about Bitcoins security problems, regardless of it remaining the most secure coin. You are talking about an abstract Bitcoin in spherical vacuum. Real Bitcoin is very insecure, so much BTC is already stolen. I would say that not less will be stolen in the future, but... I'm not sure that Bitcoin will survive the next dump. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 04:09:54 PM Your strategy is to take the wind out of somebodys sails by weakening your own stance. Having no hidden agenda doesn't mean having no agenda. Weakening my own stance? With all the scams, thefts, and cloud mining ponzi's the Bitcoin ecosystem needs no help from me. I prefer we honestly discuss the facts so we can allow coins to stand on their own merits or not. Yes, I indeed have an agenda... one that is spelled out clearly. I am quite vocal about Bitcoins security problems, regardless of it remaining the most secure coin. You are talking about an abstract Bitcoin in spherical vacuum. Real Bitcoin is very insecure, so much BTC is already stolen. I would say that not less will be stolen in the future, but... I'm not sure that Bitcoin will survive the next dump. Here is what I am suggesting: Bitcoin is very unstable and insecure. All other crypto-currencies are more so. I recommend and encourage developers to test other alts on the open market if there is some real development and ingenuity behind them(NxT classifies as thus), but this still hasn't met the bar of confidence that would make me suggest for the average user to invest in it yet or any other alt for that matter. My recommendations may change in the future depending upon the evolution of the currencies and it is possible in 5 years that I may be recommending NxT over Bitcoin. I am inclined to believe that NxT will continue its downward trend of losing marketshare in the crpto currency ecosystem however, but am open to changes. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 18, 2015, 04:20:50 PM I am inclined to believe that NxT will continue its downward trend of losing marketshare in the crpto currency ecosystem however, but am open to changes. How do you measure marketshare? Don't say that you visit http://coinmarketcap.com, Paycoin at #4 is enough to prove that marketshare can't be measured this way. PS: Nxt is low in CoinMarketCap rating simply because the site doesn't pull data from Asset Exchange and the like. Once everyone start using solely NXT its market cap will become 0, because no trades will be happening on centralized fiat exchanges. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 04:33:20 PM I am inclined to believe that NxT will continue its downward trend of losing marketshare in the crpto currency ecosystem however, but am open to changes. How do you measure marketshare? Don't say that you visit http://coinmarketcap.com, Paycoin at #4 is enough to prove that marketshare can't be measured this way. Unfortunately, for the cryptocurrency eco-system that PoS scam coin does deserve a high market share as they have a large and loyal following and high liquidity. I would suggest their standing is artificially elevated above others due to manipulation in the monetary supply, but the same could be said about NxT where a few whales control most of the supply and the liquidity is pathetic. Your point is still valid, as there are other indications to test market share like: Merchant adoption, user adoption(very difficult to measure accurately), Venture capital investments, development involvement. Google trends wont be accurate at all because NxT is mainly affiliated with WWE in searches. One could use Alexa ranking though: bitcoin.org Global rank 13,074 http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitcoin.org bitcointalk.org Global rank 4,405 http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/bitcointalk.org http://nxt.org Global rank 451,998 http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nxt.org nxtforum.org Global rank 197,055 http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/nxtforum.org paycoin.com Global rank 138,714 http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/paycoin.com hashtalk.org Global rank 28,827 http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/hashtalk.org Thus much to our chagrin paycoin has stolen marketshare/mindshare from NxT as the evidence has provided. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Zer0Sum on January 18, 2015, 05:36:08 PM I am inclined to believe that NxT will continue its downward trend of losing marketshare in the crpto currency ecosystem however, but am open to changes. How do you measure marketshare? Don't say that you visit http://coinmarketcap.com, Paycoin at #4 is enough to prove that marketshare can't be measured this way. PS: Nxt is low in CoinMarketCap rating simply because the site doesn't pull data from Asset Exchange and the like. Once everyone start using solely NXT its market cap will become 0, because no trades will be happening on centralized fiat exchanges. Coinmarketcap needs to be called out as a joke. And ignored. They conflate phony assets bubbles created by colluding traders with "capital" (Bitshares, NuBits). As for NXT... why are NXT Devs gratuitously trashing their "tokens" every chance they get? Your point makes no sense anyway... unless the 10-15 people that control NXT actually want to seal it off from the world. SuperNET is clearly doing the opposite. Dude, your "financial system" is going nowhere without a strong, liquid central currency... Right now all you have is a constellation of Asset Bubbles with zero revenue = untenable situation. "Best tech" means nothing... NXT is one major shock away from becoming an also-ran. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 05:44:57 PM As for NXT... why are NXT Devs gratuitously trashing their "tokens" every chance they get? Read CfB's comments in context with the logic. i) CMC doesn't include trading on the three decentralised exchange platforms Nxt has: Asset Exchange, Marketplace and Monetary System (and multigateway too, thinking of it. Though it isn't a core feature of Nxt). ii) "Once everyone start using solely NXT its market cap will become 0, because no trades will be happening on centralized fiat exchanges" and centralized fiat exchanges are the only thing CMC reports. The more Nxt moves to decentralised exchanges, the closer it will get to 0 on CMC as they only report centralised exchange stats. The decentralised stats are on the blockchain, but they just don't bother. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 05:52:01 PM Read CfB's comments in context with the logic. i) CMC doesn't include trading on the three decentralised exchange platforms Nxt has: Asset Exchange, Marketplace and Monetary System (and multigateway too, thinking of it. Though it isn't a core feature of Nxt). ii) "Once everyone start using solely NXT its market cap will become 0, because no trades will be happening on centralized fiat exchanges" and centralized fiat exchanges are the only thing CMC reports. The more Nxt moves to decentralised exchanges, the closer it will get to 0 on CMC as they only report centralised exchange stats. The decentralised stats are on the blockchain, but they just don't bother. You are completely avoiding the fact that their are many ways to gather metrics as to NxT's falling marketshare within the crypto ecosystem as I have just shown. Even brand new coins like Stellar and Paycoin are ousting NxT when studying metrics other than market cap. Additionally , CMC should refelct a somewhat accurate market cap as all other internal exchanges because of arbitrage. CfB statement only is applicable with regards to liquidity. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: jones_ on January 18, 2015, 05:56:56 PM Read CfB's comments in context with the logic. i) CMC doesn't include trading on the three decentralised exchange platforms Nxt has: Asset Exchange, Marketplace and Monetary System (and multigateway too, thinking of it. Though it isn't a core feature of Nxt). ii) "Once everyone start using solely NXT its market cap will become 0, because no trades will be happening on centralized fiat exchanges" and centralized fiat exchanges are the only thing CMC reports. The more Nxt moves to decentralised exchanges, the closer it will get to 0 on CMC as they only report centralised exchange stats. The decentralised stats are on the blockchain, but they just don't bother. You are completely avoiding the fact that their are many ways to gather metrics as to NxT's falling marketshare within the crypto ecosystem as I have just shown. Even brand new coins like Stellar and Paycoin are ousting NxT when studying metrics other than market cap. nxt is a crypto in constant development and doing research into the best systems, so I would venture to guess that statistics related to unpaid people helping out the platform, and developer, research and project development would slide in nxts way. anything relating to VC money will be weighted against nxt as that's not the route we've taken Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 06:00:50 PM nxt is a crypto in constant development and doing research into the best systems, so I would venture to guess that statistics related to unpaid people helping out the platform, and developer, research and project development would slide in nxts way. anything relating to VC money will be weighted against nxt as that's not the route we've taken You understand that VC money pays for professional developers right? You understand that NxT has a fraction of devs compared to those working directly for bitcoin core or on bitcoin projects, right? You understand that Bitcoin also has the most unpaid development as well and Nxt has a fraction of what Bitcoin has, right? Or are you under the impression that NxT actually has more development? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 06:07:10 PM You are completely avoiding the fact that their are many ways to gather metrics as to NxT's falling marketshare within the crypto ecosystem as I have just shown. Even brand new coins like Stellar and Paycoin are ousting NxT when studying metrics other than market cap. It is because I am relaxed about it. Let's see... from memory Peercoin, Darkcoin, Counterparty, Banxshares?, Mastercoin, Blackcoin, Monero, Auroracoin and probably many others have all "ousted" Nxt in the last year. Where are they now? Just because the frequency is picking up doesn't change anything. Nxt has shown it has staying power through solid devs, regular stable releases, innovative features and a large community. It is still early days. Perhaps you should do your alexa analysis at regular intervals to see the change over time, then it would be more meaningful. Add in the blockchain data about increasing adoption and use from here... The blockchain data shows ever increasing adoption, I don't think anybody expected Bitcoin levels of transactions after just 1 year. But they are increasing. https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_charts I am using May 2014 as that was the launch of the first major feature users could use, Asset Exchange. Transactions per day has gone up more than ten fold. May 14: 200 - 500 transactions per day Jan 15: 5500 - 7000 transactions per day The growing steepness of the curve in Cumulative transactions per day shows how transactions are increasing at a faster and faster rate. With the transactions per day increasing, the Average transactions per block per day is also rising, which is good for forgers. May 14: 0.3 - 0.6 transactions per block per day Jan 15: 8 - 11 transactions per block per day No crypto shows signs of wide adoption (even Bitcoin). Nxt does show positive, concrete signs of growing adoption and at an ever increasing rate. Something must be going right ;D I have noticed a couple of guys pushing this "Nxt is dying" vibe over the last day or so. :-\. The facts are that people like Nxt and people use it. The blockchain data and the standard 100+ people online at nxtforum.org supports this. Open your eyes ;D And it quite hard to make the characterisation your are attempting to make stick. Nxt is on the up, even in a very bear market. Those that try Nxt, like it. This shows adoption and use are increasing (at an ever increasing rate). Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: jones_ on January 18, 2015, 06:08:03 PM nxt is a crypto in constant development and doing research into the best systems, so I would venture to guess that statistics related to unpaid people helping out the platform, and developer, research and project development would slide in nxts way. anything relating to VC money will be weighted against nxt as that's not the route we've taken You understand that VC money pays for professional developers right? You understand that NxT has a fraction of devs compared to those working directly for bitcoin core or on bitcoin projects, right? Or are you under the impression that NxT actually has more development? I am under the impression that nxt has gotten much more done in its first year of development than most if not all other cryptos and will continue to do so. bitcoin got a head start and got the ball rolling, but it is possible for better systems to exist. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 06:15:17 PM I am under the impression that nxt has gotten much more done in its first year of development than most if not all other cryptos and will continue to do so. bitcoin got a head start and got the ball rolling, but it is possible for better systems to exist. No argument there. Nxt is certainly better than many shitcoins and scamcoins, but that not the context of the discussion now is it? You are completely avoiding the fact that their are many ways to gather metrics as to NxT's falling marketshare within the crypto ecosystem as I have just shown. Even brand new coins like Stellar and Paycoin are ousting NxT when studying metrics other than market cap. It is because I am relaxed about it. Let's see... from memory Peercoin, Darkcoin, Counterparty, Banxshares?, Mastercoin, Blackcoin, Monero, Auroracoin and probably many others have all "ousted" Nxt in the last year. Where are they now? Just because the frequency is picking up doesn't change anything. Nxt has shown it has staying power through solid devs, regular stable releases, innovative features and a large community. It is still early days. Perhaps you should do your alexa analysis at regular intervals to see the change over time, then it would be more meaningful. Your links show nxt.org has climbed from position 630,000 to its current position of 450,000 in the last 3 months. The same is true for nxtforum.org, it has gone from ranked at 310,000 to 197,000 in the last 3 months. Add in the blockchain data about increasing adoption and use from here... The blockchain data shows ever increasing adoption, I don't think anybody expected Bitcoin levels of transactions after just 1 year. But they are increasing. https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_charts I am using May 2014 as that was the launch of the first major feature users could use, Asset Exchange. Transactions per day has gone up more than ten fold. May 14: 200 - 500 transactions per day Jan 15: 5500 - 7000 transactions per day The growing steepness of the curve in Cumulative transactions per day shows how transactions are increasing at a faster and faster rate. With the transactions per day increasing, the Average transactions per block per day is also rising, which is good for forgers. May 14: 0.3 - 0.6 transactions per block per day Jan 15: 8 - 11 transactions per block per day No crypto shows signs of wide adoption (even Bitcoin). Nxt does show positive, concrete signs of growing adoption and at an ever increasing rate. Something must be going right ;D I have noticed a couple of guys pushing this "Nxt is dying" vibe over the last day or so. :-\. The facts are that people like Nxt and people use it. The blockchain data and the standard 100+ people online at nxtforum.org supports this. Open your eyes ;D And it quite hard to make the characterisation your are attempting to make stick. Nxt is on the up, even in a very bear market. Those that try Nxt, like it. This shows adoption and use are increasing (at an ever increasing rate). Now you are just rehashing irrelevant points. Yes, I have already stated that our whole ecosystem is growing which of course means that despite NxT losing marketshare within it it is still growing along with everything else(including the scam coins), thus one would expect wallets to increase, transactions to increase, and pageviews to increase. Please stay on subject. NxT is losing marketshare within the crypto ecosystem and being pushed aside in favor of different options. This is likely going to continue to escalate. I.E.... Ethereum when lauched will certainly overtake NxT and Counterparty may surpass NxT this year as well with its backing from Overstock. Other contenders to watch out for are Storj, maidsafe, and factom. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 06:25:55 PM As I said above (for the first time), I am relaxed about this as there have been many coins come and go. The time between each new coin is just decreasing. This will be no different.
Look back at CMC one year ago, the numbers don't matter but these are obviously what were in people's minds: Bitcoin Ripple Litecoin Peercoin Nxt Megacoin Worldcoin Primecoin Feathercoin Novacoin Infinitecoin Dogecoin Devcoin Anoncoin Tickets Freicoin Terracoin Copperlark Cryptogenic Bullion Ixcoin Earthcoin Zetacoin GoldCoin BBQCoin Fastcoin Memorycoin Mincoin Sexcoin Junkcoin ... and on and on and on All the ones I think you could do the same from 6 months ago and find the results are very similar. There is a current surge to "corporate cryptos" (Ripple, Stellar, Bitshares, Paycoin) in an attempt to change bank balances rather than the world. I think the frequency of these will increase as more money is made. But it doesn't diminish the "change the world cryptos". I think your timeframes are too short. Marketcap rankings can be relevant over long periods, let's see if PayCoin is still as important as the market suggests it is in 1 year from now.. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 06:45:09 PM I think your timeframes are too short. Marketcap rankings can be relevant over long periods, let's see if PayCoin is still as important as the market suggests it is in 1 year from now.. Well you keep arguing points I am not making, but we can both hope and agree for the above. You seem to be blasé about the fate of NxT because you are comparing it to scamcoins and P&D coins, while I am worried about Bitcoin and see it fighting for survival, and its enemies don't include NxT. Don't let your Hubris get the better of you.... Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: jones_ on January 18, 2015, 06:51:03 PM I think your timeframes are too short. Marketcap rankings can be relevant over long periods, let's see if PayCoin is still as important as the market suggests it is in 1 year from now.. Well you keep arguing points I am not making, but we can both hope and agree for the above. You seem to be blasé about the fate of NxT because you are comparing it to scamcoins and P&D coins, while I am worried about Bitcoin and see it fighting for survival, and its enemies don't include NxT. Don't let your Hubris get the better of you.... I see bitcoin surviving for a while more, its hard to refute that, but as a system, there are improvements that can be made. I hope that bit coins enemies aren't alts, its more like cryptos enemies are anything not crypto and centralized. in the move towards more efficient and advanced crypto, I believe nxt will outpace bitcoin, some people dont see that, no harm in that. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 06:55:35 PM in the move towards more efficient and advanced crypto, I believe nxt will outpace bitcoin, some people dont see that, no harm in that. Well despite Bitcoin capitulating , Nxt is shrinking faster so it will have to pull a 180. When do you think NxT will start growing in market share(not necessarily market cap) in our ecosystem? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 07:01:03 PM I think your timeframes are too short. Marketcap rankings can be relevant over long periods, let's see if PayCoin is still as important as the market suggests it is in 1 year from now.. Well you keep arguing points I am not making, but we can both hope and agree for the above. I think my posts perfectly answer your claim that Nxt is losing mindshare, concluding that your timeframes are too short. Quote You seem to be blasé about the fate of NxT because you are comparing it to scamcoins and P&D coins, while I am worried about Bitcoin and see it fighting for survival, and its enemies don't include NxT. It is also easy to say the coins a year ago were scamcoins but what is implicit in that post is that a significant proportion of crypto users at the time didn't see them as scamcoins. It is easy to call it now with hindsight. And I think it is likely many are just failed projects, which aren't the same as scams. Can you confidently predict today, which of the top 20 cryptos won't be in the top 20 next year? Quote Don't let your Hubris get the better of you.... One day at a time. If Nxters keep doing what they are doing, we will all do all right :D Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 07:02:05 PM in the move towards more efficient and advanced crypto, I believe nxt will outpace bitcoin, some people dont see that, no harm in that. Well despite Bitcoin capitulating , Nxt is shrinking faster so it will have to pull a 180. When do you think NxT will start growing in market share(not necessarily market cap) in our ecosystem? You haven't shown that your claims have any merit. Since BTC started diving, both BTC and Nxt have lost about 38% equally. Where do you define the start of 'bitcoin capitulating'? If you measure these claims based on your opinion, I think we are wasting our time.. :D Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 07:21:58 PM I think my posts perfectly answer your claim that Nxt is losing mindshare, concluding that your timeframes are too short. I have stated the exact opposite multiple times suggesting that our whole ecosystem is growing so many coins are increasing in mindshare: With regards to losing marketshare/mindshare I will again admit I was somewhat incorrect as losing market cap does indicate a decrease in marketshare in our ecosystem while other currencies and assets take over, it can be misleading as the whole crypto-ecosystem is growing including NxT. Thus Nxt is increasing mindshare worldwide, but decreasing marketshare within crypto-currencies. ;) You haven't shown that your claims have any merit. Since BTC started diving, both BTC and Nxt have lost about 38% equally. Where do you define the start of 'bitcoin capitulating'? I was looking at the both the last 6 months and the last year(to address the OP). As other have previously stated and I admitted we can both be right if we cherry pick the dates to compare price and market cap so lets not waste our time on that. The point is that NxT is being surpassed in marketshare dropping from 4 to 8 or 9 in market cap. Despite all of the flaws with market cap , the data is supported by other facts like those same currencies that are surpassing have much higher traffic to both main sites within nxt. The evidence is all there to review and I have backed it all up with links and numbers. Sure it is possible that paycoin may eventually fall off but there are 4-5 other currencies/assets that will shortly take its place above NxT. Nxt is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 07:49:44 PM I am getting tired.
You said Nxt is decreasing in mindshare. I disagreed. But it seems to already conceded this before so we are in agreement. So you believe Nxt is getting bigger in the real world, but decreasing in its market share in the pump-and-dump crypto world (if only in the short term)? And this is a bad thing? I scrubbed the rest of my reply. I am happy to settle with you, I think I was arguing a point you had already accepted. If Nxt keeps on growing in the real world, this is better than trying to keep a volatile percentage of the latest set of pump and dumps (that I have shown don't last) steady. Bitcoin dominates this percentage also so the metric is skewed/leveraged from the get go, they are all tiny numbers. In the long run, one guy/gal using and talking about Nxt in the real world is worth 10 in the cryptoworld who just buy, hoping for a pop. More value will flow from that usage than convincing speculators on BTT to buy to make our numbers look better. How can you say "Nxt is increasing mindshare worldwide" and "Nxt is becoming increasingly irrelevant" in the same post? :-\ I am starting to feel I am being trolled. But that was the reason you said you bumped this thread... There are somethings I like about NxT but I do tend to get annoyed that many alt users have been trolling our sections and attacking Bitcoin. I haven't gone so far as to repaying in kind on their boards but have started to push back here. ... so maybe I should have known. I am going to take a break ;D You say marketcap is a bad measure but appear to accept that changes over time have merit. I have shown this supports Nxt in maintaining support over the long term of a year. You say alexa supports you, I said it is only useful if you monitor it over time (as above). But you continue to rely on just a single snapshot. I wouldn't say this particularly supports either position. I would also like to see Nxt's stats at an equivalent of being 1-3 months out of the gate (this would be problematic due to different markets) but comparing a new excitable coin to one that has matured isn't a reasonable comparison if you are considering using web hits as a useful metric. I say Nxt is growing, on many blockchain metrics, in a bear market. You seem to accept this. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 18, 2015, 09:17:13 PM The point is that NxT is being surpassed in marketshare dropping from 4 to 8 or 9 in market cap. And again I spot flaws in your logic. You are talking about marketshare, though it's not clear what market you mean. If it's global market, then you already was told that CMC doesn't include data from Asset Exchange et al., hence it can't be global market. If you are talking about market of centralized fiat exchanges then you already was told that this data is incorrect (Paycoin was referred as a proof of this claim, Ripple can be another example and, hehe, Bitcoin as yet another example). Your turn. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 09:27:39 PM And again I spot flaws in your logic. You are talking about marketshare, though it's not clear what market you mean. If it's global market, then you already was told that CMC doesn't include data from Asset Exchange et al., hence it can't be global market. If you are talking about market of centralized fiat exchanges then you already was told that this data is incorrect (Paycoin was referred as a proof of this claim, Ripple can be another example and, hehe, Bitcoin as yet another example). Your turn. I already provided evidence that the market cap was accurately supported by other evidence from internet traffic and provided the data. I have already shown that Bitcoin assets exceed NxT assets. Are you trying to suggest that there exists many more assets beyond this list with a significant marketcap?: SuperNET $2,746,021 Pangea Poker $703,643 jl777hodl $431,769 Jinn $391,039 Nxttycoin $338,401 SkyNET $236,108 Coinomat $223,300 MMNXT $80,921 MGW $76,822 NEMstake $71,315 NobleNXT $38,024 NXTInspect $24,935 HRLTCGEAR $14,778 OpalTKN $11,316 VultMining $5,877 CoinoUSD $1,253,104 NXTventure $817,258 InstantDEX $754,392 NXTprivacy $377,183 sharkfund0 $364,554 Tradebots $361,013 Privatebet $210,727 NeoDICE $210,601 CryptoCoins $143,603 ltc2nXt $140,089 FreeMarket $118,590 ATOMIC $115,045 Dorcs $63,782 Bithaus $61,784 HRNXTPool $38,977 ltc2nXt3 $10,244 NXTmovie $9,180 BearMining $8,808 ach $6,900 Total NxT assets= $10,460,103 ------------------------------------------ Bitcoin Assets MaidSafeCoin Mastercoin $13,788,865 Gems Counterparty $1,561,026 Swarm Counterparty $1,378,357 Storjcoin X Counterparty $842,378 FoldingCoin Counterparty $423,143 LTBcoin Counterparty $40,577 APICoin Mastercoin $58,922 Total Bitcoin assets= $18,093,268 (not including the fact that almost all Bitcoin "assets" are held in private companies not including this list) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 09:35:21 PM You are indicating that Dogecoin, Stellar, paycoin, litecoin, ripple do not have assets like Bitshares, Bitcoin , and NxT have.
If one includes those assets as part of NxT than you are less wrong. If we are talking about NxT the currency than you are more wrong. So the NxT currency has been losing market share but the NxT ecosystem has had a market share of (~22.5million total including assets)meaning it has dropped from 4th to 6th in total ecosystem marketshare? From looking here - http://nxter.org/sorted-nxt-asset-exchange-listing/ It appears that many of these non-"publicly" traded assets are just investment projects using Nxt. There are many companies with vested assets with the other coins above NxT....shouldn't we include those too? Should we include GAWs assets in Paycoin? How About the thousands of Bitcoin companies assets in Bitcoin? What about all of bitcoins securities and stock issuance's? How about a percentage of the banks assets that depend upon Ripple/stellar? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 18, 2015, 09:54:05 PM Are you trying to suggest that there exists many more assets beyond this list with a significant marketcap?: ... Jinn $391,039 ... This number is incorrect. Jinn has already passed the 1st milestone and extra tokens are considered released to the market. Its market cap should be displayed as $1,094,909. I spotted this error because I'm involved in Jinn, how many errors in other assets? CMC reports incorrect data and I have just showed that. Your proof did "poof", you should revise your position. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 18, 2015, 09:55:57 PM It appears that many of these non-"publicly" traded assets are just investment projects using Nxt. There are many companies with vested assets with the other coins above NxT....shouldn't we include those too? We should, come back when you have numbers, for now your words are backed only by speculations. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Eamorr on January 18, 2015, 10:06:17 PM As I said above (for the first time), I am relaxed about this as there have been many coins come and go. The time between each new coin is just decreasing. This will be no different. Look back at CMC one year ago, the numbers don't matter but these are obviously what were in people's minds: Bitcoin Ripple Litecoin Peercoin Nxt Megacoin Worldcoin Primecoin Feathercoin Novacoin Infinitecoin Dogecoin Devcoin Anoncoin Tickets Freicoin Terracoin Copperlark Cryptogenic Bullion Ixcoin Earthcoin Zetacoin GoldCoin BBQCoin Fastcoin Memorycoin Mincoin Sexcoin Junkcoin ... and on and on and on All the ones I think you could do the same from 6 months ago and find the results are very similar. There is a current surge to "corporate cryptos" (Ripple, Stellar, Bitshares, Paycoin) in an attempt to change bank balances rather than the world. I think the frequency of these will increase as more money is made. But it doesn't diminish the "change the world cryptos". I think your timeframes are too short. Marketcap rankings can be relevant over long periods, let's see if PayCoin is still as important as the market suggests it is in 1 year from now.. Please remove "Litecoin". That is dead. I'd delete "Peercoin" too. I would add "Stellar" (a fork of Ripple, though I believe Stellar is way behind). I feel Dodgecoin and NXT won't make it. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 10:24:57 PM It appears that many of these non-"publicly" traded assets are just investment projects using Nxt. There are many companies with vested assets with the other coins above NxT....shouldn't we include those too? We should, come back when you have numbers, for now your words are backed only by speculations. Well this is a different Topic altogether because I was talking about Nxt and this thread was discussing the NxT currency, not separate assets and securities. As long as everyone is clear that we have changed the topic than the NxT Bitcoin - ecosystem market cap - hard to estimate because so much but at least 4 billion https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0 https://cryptostocks.com/ http://mpex.co/ http://www.coindesk.com/venture-capital-funding-bitcoin-startups-triples-2014/ http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-venture-capital/ Ripple - 482.5 m + min 8 mill VC - 490+ m PayCoin - 37.5 m +~10m to 100m GAW(who knows how much assets they have with the lies but they def are a decent sized company) = 47.5 m to 137.5 m Litecoin 47 m BitShares 25.9 m +0.9 m assets = 26.8 million Nxt - between 22.5 - 25? million ( those hidden assets have non verifiable investments , but most look small) Stellar -- 16.8+ ??? some big names backing the project but undisclosed investments Dogecoin - 13.5 m So with this new question , the market-share of the complete NxT ecosystem has dropped from #4 to either tied for 5 (Bitshares) or 6. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Eamorr on January 18, 2015, 10:29:33 PM Please remove "Litecoin". That is dead. I'd delete "Peercoin" too. I would add "Stellar" (a fork of Ripple, though I believe Stellar is way behind). I feel Dodgecoin and NXT won't make it. We aren't discussing your feeling but the facts. Come back when you have data. Have a look at some of the marketcap indicators: http://coinmarketcap.com/ https://www.coingecko.com/ I just cannot see how NXT won't drop down the table. NXT is treading water (at best) at the moment. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 10:31:54 PM Please remove "Litecoin". That is dead. I'd delete "Peercoin" too. I would add "Stellar" (a fork of Ripple, though I believe Stellar is way behind). I feel Dodgecoin and NXT won't make it. We aren't discussing your feeling but the facts. Come back when you have data. Have a look at some of the marketcap indicators: http://coinmarketcap.com/ https://www.coingecko.com/ I just cannot see how NXT won't drop down the table. NXT is treading water (at best) at the moment. It has weakened in marketshare but if you look at my data above it isn't doing as bad as an ecosystem as I thought. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Eamorr on January 18, 2015, 10:41:25 PM Please remove "Litecoin". That is dead. I'd delete "Peercoin" too. I would add "Stellar" (a fork of Ripple, though I believe Stellar is way behind). I feel Dodgecoin and NXT won't make it. We aren't discussing your feeling but the facts. Come back when you have data. Have a look at some of the marketcap indicators: http://coinmarketcap.com/ https://www.coingecko.com/ I just cannot see how NXT won't drop down the table. NXT is treading water (at best) at the moment. It has weakened in marketshare but if you look at my data above it isn't doing as bad as an ecosystem as I thought. NXT's USP is anonymity. I don't see how NXT can ever become mainstream and jump over all the regulatory hurdles. It may, however, survive as a "dark currency" that's used by criminals. The challenge would be to somehow convert your NXT to XRP. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 18, 2015, 11:12:08 PM As long as everyone is clear that we have changed the topic than the NxT Bitcoin - ecosystem market cap - hard to estimate because so much but at least 4 billion https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0 https://cryptostocks.com/ http://mpex.co/ http://www.coindesk.com/venture-capital-funding-bitcoin-startups-triples-2014/ http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-venture-capital/ Ripple - 482.5 m + min 8 mill VC - 490+ m PayCoin - 37.5 m +~10m to 100m GAW(who knows how much assets they have with the lies but they def are a decent sized company) = 47.5 m to 137.5 m Litecoin 47 m BitShares 25.9 m +0.9 m assets = 26.8 million Nxt - between 22.5 - 25? million ( those hidden assets have non verifiable investments , but most look small) Stellar -- 16.8+ ??? some big names backing the project but undisclosed investments Dogecoin - 13.5 m So with this new question , the market-share of the complete NxT ecosystem has dropped from #4 to either tied for 5 (Bitshares) or 6. This is incorrect numbers because market-share includes only assets available on the market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization), every position in CMC should have market cap reduced 10-fold, or maybe even 30-fold. So, at this point it should be obvious that noone is able to measure market capitalization of Nxt and other cryptos because info is simply unavailable (aye, non-transparency is a disadvantage of an unregulated economy). As we see CMC doesn't reflect real state of things and shouldn't be taken into account. We should take other parameters if we want to compare cryptos. Development progress was already discussed. Do you have anything else in mind? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 11:36:04 PM So, at this point it should be obvious that noone is able to measure market capitalization of Nxt and other cryptos because info is simply unavailable (aye, non-transparency is a disadvantage of an unregulated economy). As we see CMC doesn't reflect real state of things and shouldn't be taken into account. We should take other parameters if we want to compare cryptos. Development progress was already discussed. Do you have anything else in mind? Well being that this is off-topic as we were originally discussing the NxT currency, and that adding those variables really won't change the order(just increase the valuations) I would suggest we drop it as I don't feel like derailing the thread further into an overly and impossible analysis. Many of those assets and securities look sketchy as hell but than again Bitcoin is also filled with ponzi's and con artists so that is not a attack towards NxT but our whole ecosystem. I will admit again that going through these numbers made me see NxT as only slightly losing marketshare to be fair. If NxT plays their cards right this is how I predict the marketshare landscape to be in 2 years- 1 Bitcoin 2 Ripple 3 Ethereum 4 ??? (Black swan coin) 5 Maidsafe or Factom 6 Stellar 7 Counterparty 8 Bitshares 9 Nxt 10 Litecoin 11 Dogecoin 12 Storj Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: TaunSew on January 19, 2015, 12:08:59 AM NxT scam distribution. Indoor job. Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 12:16:25 AM NxT scam distribution. Indoor job. Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik I wouldn't agree with Jeff that NxT is a scamcoin , but he did give some healthy and valid criticism: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-core-developer-jeff-garzik-believes-nxt-is-a-scamcoin/ It is marketed like a scammy penny stock. --- Anon early super large stakeholders + Proof-Of-Stake == the big guys run the table, if they choose. https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf The central bankers are in place from Day One unless they are super-virtuous and give tons away “fairly.” -- This is a valid concern Anonymous developers - Satoshi was anomynous but most of his code was audited and changed by non-anomynous devs. Another valid concern Closed developing process. Source is periodically handed down from the ivory tower to the masses.-- -I don't know if this is still the case? Can anyone contribute code? Certain notable personages (& key stakeholders) that dodge, dodge, dodge, when an obvious attack vector — mitigated in other crypto-finance projects by known techniques — is highlighted. -True , but the same could be said about many in denial about PoW weaknesses Active resistance to making it easier to independently reproduce the software -Exageratted? Technical criticism is routinely met with bizarre behavior (notably from come-from-beyond) -Ad Hominem? Several security incidents that smell like inside jobs. -- ??? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: EvilDave on January 19, 2015, 12:44:51 AM The NXT community did spend quite a long time last year refuting all of the above......:
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/a-longer-reply-to-jeff-garzik/ A few points to mention: Large stakeholders: just like every other crypto, NXT is probably better distributed than most. Anon Devs: we have around 9 core (ish) devs, 3 of whom are non-anonymous. Not perfect, but, hey, it's crypto. Source is open, anyone can contribute (met a guy a few weeks ago at a BTC meet, got into a chat, turned out he had contributed code to the contacts system in NXT core). Development code for upcoming stuff is not open, production code is completely open. Active resistance: look at the number of NXT clones. We simply don't give a flying f**k on this point (mostly). Security incidents: one scam centered around Cointropolis (round 50 BTC) and the BTER hack. In a year. Both attacks were purely based on social engineering and shitty password security, there was never any breach of NXT code itself. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 02:35:24 AM The NXT community did spend quite a long time last year refuting all of the above......: https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/a-longer-reply-to-jeff-garzik/ A few points to mention: Large stakeholders: just like every other crypto, NXT is probably better distributed than most. Anon Devs: we have around 9 core (ish) devs, 3 of whom are non-anonymous. Not perfect, but, hey, it's crypto. Source is open, anyone can contribute (met a guy a few weeks ago at a BTC meet, got into a chat, turned out he had contributed code to the contacts system in NXT core). Development code for upcoming stuff is not open, production code is completely open. Active resistance: look at the number of NXT clones. We simply don't give a flying f**k on this point (mostly). Security incidents: one scam centered around Cointropolis (round 50 BTC) and the BTER hack. In a year. Both attacks were purely based on social engineering and shitty password security, there was never any breach of NXT code itself. Thanks, for the link. The discussion in that thread actually made me believe that I was being overly defensive of NxT, and some major concerns expressed by Jeff are unresolved. I wouldn't call NxT a scamcoin though , but can certainly understand why Jeff reacted as such with those responses. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 08:20:51 AM NxT scam distribution. Indoor job. Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik Hehe, I was curious what our UtopianFuture was doing... Haven't seen you for ages! Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 08:24:33 AM NxT scam distribution. Indoor job. Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik I wouldn't agree with Jeff that NxT is a scamcoin , but he did give some healthy and valid criticism: Jeff "Hashes do not match" Garzik is famous for attacking all competitors of his projects. Here is one of the recent - https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/554675231798099968. The fact that the guy endorsing government regulation on cryptocurrencies (his BitSat is completely govt controlled) raises a big red flag over Bitcoin and Bitpay. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 11:15:25 AM NxT scam distribution. Indoor job. Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik I wouldn't agree with Jeff that NxT is a scamcoin , but he did give some healthy and valid criticism: Jeff "Hashes do not match" Garzik is famous for attacking all competitors of his projects. Here is one of the recent - https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/554675231798099968. The fact that the guy endorsing government regulation on cryptocurrencies (his BitSat is completely govt controlled) raises a big red flag over Bitcoin and Bitpay. Seems like Jeff is certainly extremely biased towards bitcoin, which is no surprise. This doesn't make his criticisms invalid by default but should make one wary about him over-exaggerating certain claims in favor of Bitcoin. As far as his politics are concerned he is "libertarian-lite" so he is in the camp that government and regulations are needed but is skeptical of big government. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: toknormal on January 19, 2015, 11:52:10 AM It may, however, survive as a "dark currency" that's used by criminals. The challenge would be to somehow convert your NXT to XRP. What have "dark currencies" got to do with criminals ? For a start, criminals don't use crypto, they use the US dollar. Secondly, most people in the world prefer to keep their banking details out of the public domain. Whether the accounts are anonymous is beside the point - the transactions are not. If you're saying that makes everyone a "criminal" then I don't think you've thought very much about this issue. Thirdly, commercial entities such as retailers, service providers and manufacturers consider cashflow information to be competitively sensitive. Are you saying that makes them criminals as well - the whole lot of them ? Please people put 2 brain cells together before opening your mouths and letting your bellies rumble about this "anonymous cryptos are for criminals" crap. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: LiQio on January 19, 2015, 11:56:38 AM Seems like Jeff is certainly extremely biased towards bitcoin, which is no surprise. This doesn't make his criticisms invalid by default but should make one wary about him over-exaggerating certain claims in favor of Bitcoin. As far as his politics are concerned he is "libertarian-lite" so he is in the camp that government and regulations are needed but is skeptical of big government. Just for the record: he was "kinda sorta libertarian" now transformed to "failed libertarian" Source: https://twitter.com/jgarzik (and twitter account 3 month ago) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Eamorr on January 19, 2015, 12:09:31 PM It may, however, survive as a "dark currency" that's used by criminals. The challenge would be to somehow convert your NXT to XRP. What have "dark currencies" got to do with criminals ? For a start, criminals don't use crypto, they use the US dollar. Secondly, most people in the world prefer to keep their banking details out of the public domain. Whether the accounts are anonymous is beside the point - the transactions are not. If you're saying that makes everyone a "criminal" then I don't think you've thought very much about this issue. Thirdly, commercial entities such as retailers, service providers and manufacturers consider cashflow information to be competitively sensitive. Are you saying that makes them criminals as well - the whole lot of them ? Please people put 2 brain cells together before opening your mouths and letting your bellies rumble about this "anonymous cryptos are for criminals" crap. Trying to get banks and governments on board with this attitude (an attitude that's rampant in the NXT community) will get you absolutely nowhere. That's the reason the OP is "dumping NXT and why you should too". I think NXT is great as an anonymous crypto, but it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency. A bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet who have no territory and no influence aren't going to just come along and tell governments that they know better and that governments should listen to them and that governments should give up their sovereignty to a bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet. Techies might be smart, but they don't always know better. Ripple are demonstrating their technology to governments and banks and are showing them how cryptocurrency can make business more efficient and can make life better for citizens. This is hard to do when there's Bitcoin and Dodgecoin and NXT and all these other drug/libertarian nutters constantly in the news (for all the wrong reasons) pumping their crypto coin; nullifying the efforts of Ripple in championing the idea of legitimate crypto currency. It's at the stage now where Ripple Labs need to remove themselves from these public lists (such as coinmarketcap.com and coingecko.com) because it makes out that XRP could be compared to Bitcoin and all the baggage that goes with the toxic Bitcoin brand. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: microbial on January 19, 2015, 12:24:47 PM i keep my nxt anyway
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 12:36:48 PM it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency. government != the world. People are the world, and they should care if they want the government and the banks to control their wealth. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Eamorr on January 19, 2015, 12:48:59 PM it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency. government != the world. People are the world, and they should care if they want the government and the banks to control their wealth. Great. If you want to go be a commie/hippie/libertarian/whatever-you're-having-yourself, off you go and conquer your own territory. There's nothing stopping you. If you want to change the country you live in according to your personal views -- off you go and change it then. Nothing stopping you doing that either. Just don't expect anyone to listen to you. If you want to live in an off-grid Mormon commune, put all your wealth into NXT, run FreeBSD and access the internet through a VPN out of Iceland, best of luck with everything. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 12:56:28 PM ...but it cannot be the world's currency. None of the currencies can be the world's currency. History books say so. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: EvilDave on January 19, 2015, 12:58:45 PM Trying to get banks and governments on board with this attitude (an attitude that's rampant in the NXT community) will get you absolutely nowhere. That's the reason the OP is "dumping NXT and why you should too". I think NXT is great as an anonymous crypto, but it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency. A bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet who have no territory and no influence aren't going to just come along and tell governments that they know better and that governments should listen to them and that governments should give up their sovereignty to a bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet. Techies might be smart, but they don't always know better. Ripple are demonstrating their technology to governments and banks and are showing them how cryptocurrency can make business more efficient and can make life better for citizens. This is hard to do when there's Bitcoin and Dodgecoin and NXT and all these other drug/libertarian nutters constantly in the news (for all the wrong reasons) pumping their crypto coin; nullifying the efforts of Ripple in championing the idea of legitimate crypto currency. It's at the stage now where Ripple Labs need to remove themselves from these public lists (such as coinmarketcap.com and coingecko.com) because it makes out that XRP could be compared to Bitcoin and all the baggage that goes with the toxic Bitcoin brand. @Eamorr: I need to point out that you are replying to a massively ancient thread. NWO (the OP) started this in Jan 2014, a few weeks after NXTs launch. Hopefully, he'll have finished his 50,000 NXT dump by now. Also: Ripple isn't really a crypto-currency..........so removal from CMC sounds like a good idea. You seem to be missing a very large aspect of Nxt: it's not just a crypto-currency, but a complete platform for crypto-based finance. The ultimate aim of Nxt is not to have the NXT currency at #1 on CMC (though that would be nice) but to provide people with a genuinely usable alternative to the current financial system. Just like Bitcoin, in fact, but Nxt provides users with more features/tools than just the basic store/transfer functionality of BTC. @inBitweTrust: Having spent some time going thru the Jeff Garzik critique of NXT (and the replies from the NXT community), the only genuinely valid point of Jeffs criticism was to do with the development process for NXT code. Right now we only have one dev team contributing to NXT core protocols and main client, Jeffs point was that in order to be truly de-centralised NXT needs to have multiple independent teams contributing to the core, as per open-source ideals. Cant argue with that and it would be a good thing. However, NXT is still evolving. Given another year or two, and we probably will have multiple dev teams on the core development process. Pretty much all of the rest of Jeffs points didn't stand up to scrutiny, most being based on Jeffs opinion, rather than any verifiable facts.. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Eamorr on January 19, 2015, 01:11:24 PM Trying to get banks and governments on board with this attitude (an attitude that's rampant in the NXT community) will get you absolutely nowhere. That's the reason the OP is "dumping NXT and why you should too". I think NXT is great as an anonymous crypto, but it cannot be the world's currency. One of the key foundation stones of government (as well as maintaining your borders, keeping law and order and collecting taxes, etc.) is the ability to control your own currency. A bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet who have no territory and no influence aren't going to just come along and tell governments that they know better and that governments should listen to them and that governments should give up their sovereignty to a bunch of libertarian (lite) guys on the internet. Techies might be smart, but they don't always know better. Ripple are demonstrating their technology to governments and banks and are showing them how cryptocurrency can make business more efficient and can make life better for citizens. This is hard to do when there's Bitcoin and Dodgecoin and NXT and all these other drug/libertarian nutters constantly in the news (for all the wrong reasons) pumping their crypto coin; nullifying the efforts of Ripple in championing the idea of legitimate crypto currency. It's at the stage now where Ripple Labs need to remove themselves from these public lists (such as coinmarketcap.com and coingecko.com) because it makes out that XRP could be compared to Bitcoin and all the baggage that goes with the toxic Bitcoin brand. @Eamorr: I need to point out that you are replying to a massively ancient thread. NWO (the OP) started this in Jan 2014, a few weeks after NXTs launch. Hopefully, he'll have finished his 50,000 NXT dump by now. Also: Ripple isn't really a crypto-currency..........so removal from CMC sounds like a good idea. You seem to be missing a very large aspect of Nxt: it's not just a crypto-currency, but a complete platform for crypto-based finance. The ultimate aim of Nxt is not to have the NXT currency at #1 on CMC (though that would be nice) but to provide people with a genuinely usable alternative to the current financial system. Just like Bitcoin, in fact, but Nxt provides users with more features/tools than just the basic store/transfer functionality of BTC. @inBitweTrust: Having spent some time going thru the Jeff Garzik critique of NXT (and the replies from the NXT community), the only genuinely valid point of Jeffs criticism was to do with the development process for NXT code. Right now we only have one dev team contributing to NXT core protocols and main client, Jeffs point was that in order to be truly de-centralised NXT needs to have multiple independent teams contributing to the core, as per open-source ideals. Cant argue with that and it would be a good thing. However, NXT is still evolving. Given another year or two, and we probably will have multiple dev teams on the core development process. Pretty much all of the rest of Jeffs points didn't stand up to scrutiny, most being based on Jeffs opinion, rather than any verifiable facts.. The OP, NWO (I can only assume NWO stands for "New World Order"), is a nutter. Every time you talk to someone plugging NXT, you soon find out that there's a high probability they have a store of beans and ammo, believe 9-11 was an inside job and hate all forms of government. This mindset is deeply embedded into the NXT community. Even a fork would never rid the project of this mentality. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 19, 2015, 01:14:30 PM Hello UP, it has been a while. You gave yourself away very early on this time :D
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 01:14:50 PM If you want to change the country you live in according to your personal views -- off you go and change it then. Nothing stopping you doing that either. Just don't expect anyone to listen to you. I'm already on it :) If you want deprecation of your purchasing power, inflation, corrupt banks, governments to be able to confiscate your funds, loosing everything when your government decides to make a currency reform, then feel free. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 01:15:26 PM @inBitweTrust: Having spent some time going thru the Jeff Garzik critique of NXT (and the replies from the NXT community), the only genuinely valid point of Jeffs criticism was to do with the development process for NXT code. Right now we only have one dev team contributing to NXT core protocols and main client, Jeffs point was that in order to be truly de-centralised NXT needs to have multiple independent teams contributing to the core, as per open-source ideals. Cant argue with that and it would be a good thing. However, NXT is still evolving. Given another year or two, and we probably will have multiple dev teams on the core development process. Pretty much all of the rest of Jeffs points didn't stand up to scrutiny, most being based on Jeffs opinion, rather than any verifiable facts.. Another valid criticism is the fact that most of the core devs within NxT are anonymous. Within bitcoin all the core devs are transparent and that is true for even the other stacks and implementations from even paranoid anarchists(like myself) with unsystem. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 01:19:22 PM they have a store of beans and ammo, believe 9-11 was an inside job and hate all forms of government. This mindset is deeply embedded into the NXT community. hahaha you can't be serious. :D Not all forms of governments are bad (I quite like mine for example), but some are. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 01:21:11 PM Another valid criticism is the fact that most of the core devs within NxT are anonymous. Within bitcoin all the core devs are transparent and that is true for even the other stacks and implementations from even paranoid anarchists(like myself) with unsystem. yawn, satoshi was anonymous, very valid criticism. I don't really know why you need to know where your dev lives and how his face looks like. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 01:25:03 PM Another valid criticism is the fact that most of the core devs within NxT are anonymous. Within bitcoin all the core devs are transparent and that is true for even the other stacks and implementations from even paranoid anarchists(like myself) with unsystem. yawn, satoshi was anonymous, very valid criticism. I don't really know why you need to know where your dev lives and how his faces looks like. Yes, that is indeed a valid criticism of Bitcoin... at the time , except for the fact that all of his code has been peer reviewed , audited multiple times since he left and most of the code changed by known developers. You honestly don't see why that is a valid criticism and need me to explain it to you or are you just trolling? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 01:27:23 PM I don't really know why you need to know where your dev lives and how his face looks like. They don't, but someone said that devs of a decentralized project must be not anonymous and sheeple repeats this mantra. Repeating doesn't involve brain cells as was shown in "1984". Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 01:30:09 PM Another valid criticism is the fact that most of the core devs within NxT are anonymous. Within bitcoin all the core devs are transparent and that is true for even the other stacks and implementations from even paranoid anarchists(like myself) with unsystem. yawn, satoshi was anonymous, very valid criticism. I don't really know why you need to know where your dev lives and how his faces looks like. Yes, that is indeed a valid criticism of Bitcoin... at the time , except for the fact that all of his code has been peer reviewed , audited multiple times since he left and most of the code changed by known developers. You honestly don't see why that is a valid criticism and need me to explain it to you or are you just trolling? No I really don't see it. Nxt's source code was peer reviewd by known devs too, and by anon devs. It's the good thing about being open source, everyone can review the code. You still didn't tell me why "being known" matters? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Furio on January 19, 2015, 01:33:07 PM Another valid criticism is the fact that most of the core devs within NxT are anonymous. Within bitcoin all the core devs are transparent and that is true for even the other stacks and implementations from even paranoid anarchists(like myself) with unsystem. yawn, satoshi was anonymous, very valid criticism. I don't really know why you need to know where your dev lives and how his faces looks like. Yes, that is indeed a valid criticism of Bitcoin... at the time , except for the fact that all of his code has been peer reviewed , audited multiple times since he left and most of the code changed by known developers. You honestly don't see why that is a valid criticism and need me to explain it to you or are you just trolling? No I really don't see it. Nxt's source code was peer reviewd by known devs too, and by anon devs. It's the good thing about being open source, everyone can review the code. You still didn't tell me why "being known" matters? NXT is not opensource, a part of the code is private.... Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 01:34:55 PM NXT is not opensource, a part of the code is private.... Funny that this rule only counts for Nxt, but if a Bitcoin dev has a private repository, it doesn't count ;) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: LiQio on January 19, 2015, 01:40:05 PM simple fact: open-source projects don't need known devs
simple fact: there's a way better chance not be the target of defamation, threat or hitmen if you stay anonymous (as a crypto dev) simple fact: no developer commits every piece of code locally changed in real-time, ergo there is always private parts. (And with the current release cycle of Nxt I really don't see any reason to claim that there is something in hiding) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 01:46:21 PM NXT is not opensource, a part of the code is private.... Funny that this rule only counts for Nxt, but if a Bitcoin dev has a private repository, it doesn't count ;) Your phrase requires IQ above 90 to get the meaning you put into it. Next time provide a version understandable by majority of BTT users, please. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 01:48:12 PM I don't really know why you need to know where your dev lives and how his face looks like. They don't, but someone said that devs of a decentralized project must be not anonymous and sheeple repeats this mantra. Repeating doesn't involve brain cells as was shown in "1984". I would agree with you in a perfect world where all the end users are capable of compiling the jar from source and could instantly scan and detect any bugs or malicious code without effort with every version. In the real world, less than 0.1% of users will compile from source , even if they are capable and any programmer knows that thorough audits take time and don't give 100% confirmation that malicious code isn't present. Having a transparent development process with known developers absolutely does not eliminate all bugs and malicious code from entering in the software, but what it does allow is a higher level of accountability if something does go wrong and it allows people to make better informed judgements as to the motivations of certain developers and gives preemptive clues as to what to watch out for from certain contributors to the source. Additionally, understanding the background of the developers can give us some understanding of their technical proficiency based upon other projects they have worked on. The fact that we can research who Jeff Garzik is , and what companies he worked for in the past is very helpful in understanding his motivations and biases. It is frightening that I have to explain this to you and anyone else reading with a critical eye should be similarity warned. Using the big bad government as an excuse to stay in the shadows is not a good enough excuse when dealing with Fintech with peoples life savings and there are plenty of other Anarchist developers that have the courage and moral fortitude to reveal themselves. I am not saying that all developers need to be transparent but with Fintech it is a completely different matter with different stakes. So if BCNext wants to pull a Satoshi that is fine but the code should be developed in a more transparent manner after he has stepped aside. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 01:52:06 PM So if BCNext wants to pull a Satoshi that is fine but the code should be developed in a more transparent manner after he has stepped aside. I see yet another flaw in your reasoning. You assume that a known identity helps to protect a system against scams, but history of cryptocurrencies shows the opposite. Have you even heard of Pirate@40? (And should I mention Josh Garza?) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: makoto1337 on January 19, 2015, 01:56:28 PM So if BCNext wants to pull a Satoshi that is fine but the code should be developed in a more transparent manner after he has stepped aside. I see yet another flaw in your reasoning. You assume that a known identity helps to protect a system against scams, but history of cryptocurrencies shows the opposite. Have you even heard of Pirate@40? (And should I mention Josh Garza?) NXT is still probably several years ahead of Bitcoin, even after 1 year has passed. The original source has been changed a lot by Jean Luc as I understand it. It is okay to give BCNext credit for his vision, though. His mark on crypto will be remembered forever. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 02:01:49 PM So if BCNext wants to pull a Satoshi that is fine but the code should be developed in a more transparent manner after he has stepped aside. I see yet another flaw in your reasoning. You assume that a known identity helps to protect a system against scams, but history of cryptocurrencies shows the opposite. Have you even heard of Pirate@40? (And should I mention Josh Garza?) Non-sequitur, as we are discussing other security weaknesses and you are moving the goal posts. Additionally, you are presenting a false dichotomy even after I bolded: Having a transparent development process with known developers absolutely does not eliminate all bugs and malicious code from entering in the software, Hint: A rational argument would present evidence which reflected increases in overall security weaknesses from a transparent development process to counteract my claims. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 02:09:02 PM So if BCNext wants to pull a Satoshi that is fine but the code should be developed in a more transparent manner after he has stepped aside. I see yet another flaw in your reasoning. You assume that a known identity helps to protect a system against scams, but history of cryptocurrencies shows the opposite. Have you even heard of Pirate@40? (And should I mention Josh Garza?) NXT is still probably several years ahead of Bitcoin, even after 1 year has passed. The original source has been changed a lot by Jean Luc as I understand it. It is okay to give BCNext credit for his vision, though. His mark on crypto will be remembered forever. But people are afraid of change, that's why there are so many "concerns" against Nxt. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 02:10:35 PM Non-sequitur, as we are discussing other security weaknesses and you are moving the goal posts. That was the 1st step to show that known identity of a developer is a disadvantage. People start trusting him and at some point become scammed. Anonymous devs keep people suspicious and hence better protected. In short, anon devs better than non-anon ones. I don't move goal posts, I help you to find flaws in your own logic by making to admit some points and finally become trapped. After that point you can't use tricks that are usually used to avoid admitting that you were wrong. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 02:12:57 PM But people are afraid of change, that's why there are so many "concerns" against Nxt. I'm advocating TaPoS to be added to Bitcoin and would turn my back on Bitcoin at a moments notice if it lost its fundamental principles or something better came along. NxT isn't there yet , and you should take any valid criticism as helpful advice to strengthen your project. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 02:14:04 PM NxT isn't there yet , and you should take any valid criticism as helpful advice to strengthen your project. Nxt already uses (not utilized fully) TaPoS-like approach. It's called Economic Clustering. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 02:16:19 PM A rational argument would present evidence which reflected increases in overall security weaknesses from a transparent development process to counteract my claims. We don't have to aim for the targets that you set up for us, we can also argue why "to be known" is not a prerequisite in a transparent dev process. Your facts:
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 02:16:47 PM Nxt already uses TaPoS-like approach. It's called Economic Clustering. I am aware of this and have much higher standards of security than what NxT provides. That was the 1st step to show that known identity of a developer is a disadvantage. People start trusting him and at some point become scammed. Anonymous devs keep people suspicious and hence better protected. In short, anon devs better than non-anon ones. Any data that supports this assertion? Comparative analysis of the security of code written by anonymous developers vs transparent ones? We don't have to aim for the targets that you set up for us, we can also argue why "to be known" is not a prerequisite in a transparent dev process. Your facts:
[/list] Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 02:20:50 PM Any data that supports this assertion? Comparative analysis of the security of code written by anonymous developers vs transparent ones? Compare Satoshi's code and Luke-Jr's code (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2pfgjg/exposed_lukejr_plans_on_forcing_blacklists_on_all/). Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 02:29:29 PM Any data that supports this assertion? Comparative analysis of the security of code written by anonymous developers vs transparent ones? Compare Satoshi's code and Luke-Jr's code (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2pfgjg/exposed_lukejr_plans_on_forcing_blacklists_on_all/). What type of argument is that? It is no secret that Satoshi's code was shit despite his genius, that is why over 60% of it had to be changed. The question is, can you provide data that shows open source projects that are written by anonymous developers tend to be more secure and bug free than open source projects written in a transparent manner? Not, Luke-Jr vs satoshi, a ridiculous statement because you are comparing 2 anonymous developers so it completely ignores the central premise of the question. Any data that supports this assertion? Comparative analysis of the security of code written by anonymous developers vs transparent ones? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 02:37:50 PM It is no secret that Satoshi's code was shit despite his genius, that is why over 60% of it had to be changed. Now it's my turn to ask you for a proof. It's very far from being "no secret". The question is, can you provide data that shows open source projects that are written by anonymous developers tend to be more secure and bug free than open source projects written in a transparent manner? Not, Luke-Jr vs satoshi, a ridiculous statement because you are comparing 2 anonymous developers so it completely ignores the central premise of the question. First, Luke-Jr is not anonymous. Here is some info about him - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/868-industry-candidate-luke-dashjr/. Here is how he looks - https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/1095675?v=3&s=460. Second, I don't say that anonymous devs produce better code. I say that anonymous devs lead to more secure systems because their deeds are scrutinized with greater effort. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 02:51:45 PM Now it's my turn to ask you for a proof. It's very far from being "no secret". What is the question that you need to be verified. That over 60% of the code has been changed or that Satoshi's code was shit? First, Luke-Jr is not anonymous. Here is some info about him - https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/868-industry-candidate-luke-dashjr/. Here is how he looks - https://avatars0.githubusercontent.com/u/1095675?v=3&s=460. This was my mistake, as I mistook Luke-Jr reference for Jean-Luc, as your comment was not a valid comparative analysis and I was expecting one. I assumed you were comparing a NxT dev to a Bitcoin dev. Second, I don't say that anonymous devs produce better code. I say that anonymous devs lead to more secure systems because their deeds are scrutinized with greater effort. You are avoiding the question still, so I will rewrite it for you if you enjoy these word games: Any data that supports this assertion? Comparative analysis of the Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 03:00:50 PM What is the question that you need to be verified. That over 60% of the code has been changed or that Satoshi's code was shit? The latter. You are ignoring the question still, so I will rewrite it for you if you enjoy these word games: Any data that supports this assertion? Comparative analysis of the It's not word games, English is not my mother tongue, maybe something was lost in translation. Well, here is another example - Satoshi VERSUS http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/oct/20/bank-of-england-payment-system-crashes (I can bet that BoE programmers weren't anonymous). Google hints http://www.pcworld.com/article/2060760/healthcaregovs-enrollment-system-crashes-monday.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Entertainment_hack. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 03:17:19 PM It's not word games, English is not my mother tongue, maybe something was lost in translation. Well, here is another example - Satoshi VERSUS http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/oct/20/bank-of-england-payment-system-crashes (I can bet that BoE programmers weren't anonymous). Google hints http://www.pcworld.com/article/2060760/healthcaregovs-enrollment-system-crashes-monday.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Pictures_Entertainment_hack. I will try and be more patient to accommodate miscommunication, but I don't think that is the problem here. Do you understand the difference between a comparative analysis and simply stating anecdotes of security breaches? Since there are strong hints and accusations of impropriety with NxT already that isn't a good example. A good argument would be citing a research article that discussed the propensity in security breaches of open source projects that had anonymous developers vs non-anonymous ones, or at minimum if you cannot cite this than cite some long-term open source projects with anonymous developers that have better security than your average open source project with known devs. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 03:23:51 PM What is the question that you need to be verified. That over 60% of the code has been changed or that Satoshi's code was shit? The latter. Well the evidence can directly be obtained by reviewing the source code itself and the subsequent changes. Many well versed programmers have confirmed the shortcomings of Satoshi's code so it isn't just my opinion: http://diginomics.com/who-is-satoshi-nakamoto/ Quote Based on analysis from other programmers who worked on the source code, it does not appear to be written by someone who is well versed in professional programming but rather has a strong academic or theoretical knowledge of cryptography. Quote He was the oracle to which we would go for questions about the system, but he rarely followed standard engineering practices, like writing unit or stress tests or any of the standard qualitative analysis that we’d perform on software. Several things had to be disabled almost immediately upon public release of Bitcoin because they were obviously exploitable. http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/nakamoto-what-do-we-know/ Quote “Satoshi’s style of writing code was old-school. He used things like reverse Polish notation.” In addition, the code was not always terribly neat, another sign that Nakamoto was not working with a team that would have cleaned up the code and streamlined it. “Everyone who looked at his code has pretty much concluded it was a single person,” says Andresen. “We have rewritten roughly 70 percent of the code since inception. It wasn’t written with nice interfaces. It was like one big hairball. It was incredibly tight and well-written at the lower level but where functions came together it could be pretty messy.” Now we could begin to argue about the stylistic preferences with programming notation but any competent programmer who has worked collaboratively on a development project can attest to Satoshi's programming style is the exact opposite of what is desired, especially for a decentralized worldwide open source project. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 03:37:53 PM A good argument would be citing a research article that discussed the propensity in security breaches of open source projects that had anonymous developers vs non-anonymous ones, or at minimum if you cannot cite this than at minimum cite some large long-term open source projects with anonymous developers that have better security than your average open source project with known devs. Funny that you don't have to cite articles with scientific proof when you raise your concerns that to having known devs is better than having anon devs ;) All your facts are subjective at best. It's not clear how they contribute to "to have known devs is better than anon devs" Quote Knowing the background and politics of a developer who was a liberal statist would allow me to be more on guard subjective. If he was not a liberal statist you would trust him and not be on guard? Quote Quote the background of the developers can give us some understanding of their technical proficiency -> So does the quality of the code they write Yes, I agree with this in a utopian fantasy developer world. Completely, ignoring reality, and my previous comments.BULLSHIT. Code quality is the most important criterion of a dev. Nice try evading an argument. But the best is, we have known devs, but since some of them are anon, it's all bad, right? ;) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 03:40:45 PM Do you understand the difference between a comparative analysis and simply stating anecdotes of security breaches? Now you see why a claim that "non-anon" devs are better is a nonsense. If Nxt had 1000 devs then laws of statistics could be applied (even if your claim was true), Nxt has only 3 anon devs and anyone claiming that it lowers quality of the code says a silly thing, statistics simply doesn't work for small numbers. A good argument would be citing a research article that discussed the propensity in security breaches of open source projects that had anonymous developers vs non-anonymous ones, or at minimum if you cannot cite this than at minimum cite some large long-term open source projects with anonymous developers that have better security than your average open source project with known devs. No need, I already busted the issue 5 lines above. Now we came to the agreement, I believe? PS: I really enjoy our convo :). Guys like you serve their posts in "soft" form and quite often agree with the opponent but at some point intention to push the agenda leads them to a trap of logic flaws that become obvious sooner or later. Let's continue, if you wish. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Eamorr on January 19, 2015, 03:41:01 PM Source code? Really??? Who cares?
Ripple had this debate years ago. They have top cryptographers working for them. They made the decisions (as close to perfect as possible) and they've gone and built it. You guys are still arguing among yourselves and getting all pedantic about what it and isn't in the source code. Sigh. The energy should not be on the degree of open-source purity and/or technical disagreements, but on winning hearts and minds. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: TaunSew on January 19, 2015, 03:42:34 PM Source code? Really??? Who cares? Ripple had this debate years ago. They have top cryptographers working for them. They made the decisions (as close to perfect as possible) and they've gone and built it. You guys are still arguing among yourselves and getting all pedantic about what it and isn't in the source code. Sigh. The energy should not be on the degree of open-source purity and/or technical disagreements, but on winning hearts and minds. Proof of Beluga Caviar Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 03:44:22 PM PS: I really enjoy our convo :). Guys like you serve their posts in "soft" form and quite often agree with the opponent but at some point intention to push the agenda leads them to a trap of logic flaws that become obvious sooner or later. Let's continue, if you wish. I was thinking about excatly that all the time! It's quite subtle. (not pretending that my arguments are flawless) Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 03:49:50 PM Well the evidence can directly be obtained by reviewing the source code itself and the subsequent changes. Many well versed programmers have confirmed the shortcomings of Satoshi's code so it isn't just my opinion: http://diginomics.com/who-is-satoshi-nakamoto/ Quote Based on analysis from other programmers who worked on the source code, it does not appear to be written by someone who is well versed in professional programming but rather has a strong academic or theoretical knowledge of cryptography. Quote He was the oracle to which we would go for questions about the system, but he rarely followed standard engineering practices, like writing unit or stress tests or any of the standard qualitative analysis that we’d perform on software. Several things had to be disabled almost immediately upon public release of Bitcoin because they were obviously exploitable. http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/nakamoto-what-do-we-know/ Quote “Satoshi’s style of writing code was old-school. He used things like reverse Polish notation.” In addition, the code was not always terribly neat, another sign that Nakamoto was not working with a team that would have cleaned up the code and streamlined it. “Everyone who looked at his code has pretty much concluded it was a single person,” says Andresen. “We have rewritten roughly 70 percent of the code since inception. It wasn’t written with nice interfaces. It was like one big hairball. It was incredibly tight and well-written at the lower level but where functions came together it could be pretty messy.” Now we could begin to argue about the stylistic preferences with programming notation but any competent programmer who has worked collaboratively on a development project can attest to Satoshi's programming style is the exact opposite of what is desired, especially for a decentralized worldwide open source project. This is a common problem of all programmers working on big projects - they believe that writing code by sticking to the rule "200 lines per file max" is the only correct way. As the result we have heavy software with millions lines of trash that requires more and more GHz to work without a lot of lagging. I saw these 4 files written by Satoshi - nothing that could be used to call the code a bad written. Just old school, without things like Code: int i = 3; // Set value of 'i' to 3 Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 19, 2015, 03:56:02 PM Source code? Really??? Who cares? Ripple had this debate years ago. They have top cryptographers working for them. They made the decisions (as close to perfect as possible) and they've gone and built it. You guys are still arguing among yourselves and getting all pedantic about what it and isn't in the source code. Sigh. The energy should not be on the degree of open-source purity and/or technical disagreements, but on winning hearts and minds. Proof of Beluga Caviar Nice try :D This is a sign of madness, you know... Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 03:57:42 PM Nice try :D This is a sign of madness, you know... Did you notice that his posts are very short now? Like he is scared of speech analysis. :D Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 03:59:00 PM This is a common problem of all programmers working on big projects - they believe that writing code by sticking to the rule "200 lines per file max" is the only correct way. As the result we have heavy software with millions lines of trash that requires more and more GHz to work without a lot of lagging. I saw these 4 files written by Satoshi - nothing that could be used to call the code a bad written. Just old school, without things like Code: int i = 3; // Set value of 'i' to 3 It has nothing to do with "200 lines per file max" rule but about documentation and writing code that is more readable and modular. Satoshi's code was written for himself and was very tight without enough documentation. It is bad enough having to work on an inhouse development project with a few other people and one asshole programmer doesn't follow normal conventions let alone a world wide decentralized collaborative project. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Furio on January 19, 2015, 03:59:56 PM Source code? Really??? Who cares? Ripple had this debate years ago. They have top cryptographers working for them. They made the decisions (as close to perfect as possible) and they've gone and built it. You guys are still arguing among yourselves and getting all pedantic about what it and isn't in the source code. Sigh. The energy should not be on the degree of open-source purity and/or technical disagreements, but on winning hearts and minds. Proof of Beluga Caviar Nice try :D This is a sign of madness, you know... The reason why this is so important is decentralizition, which can't be achieved by private code..... Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 04:02:12 PM It has nothing to do with "200 lines per file max" rule but about documentation and writing code that is more readable and modular. Satoshi's code was written for himself and was very tight without enough documentation. It is bad enough having to work on a development project with a few other people and one asshole programmer doesn't follow normal conventions let alone a world wide decentralized collaborative project. Are you a programmer, btw? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 04:04:09 PM The reason why this is so important is decentralizition, which can't be achieved by private code..... Nxt was open-source since day 0. Unobfuscated Java binary = source code. Google around and you will find several repositories with decompiled source code. It repeats the original source code with 99% matching (the rest 1% is caused by empty lines). Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 04:11:04 PM Funny that you don't have to cite articles with scientific proof when you raise your concerns that to having known devs is better than having anon devs ;) All your facts are subjective at best. It's not clear how they contribute to "to have known devs is better than anon devs" Scientific proof was not requested, what I asked for was much lower bar. When an comparative analysis cannot be made than I refer you to refuting my original statements with logical rebuttals. subjective. If he was not a liberal statist you would trust him and not be on guard? No, being a paranoid developer, I would trust no one but knowing the motivations, background, and politics of fellow devs allows me to focus and scrutinize certain aspects of others work more which is helpful whether it involves watching for malicious code or simple being on guard for potential bugs when someone contributes code out of their area of expertise. To expect a full and complete security audit with every change is unrealistic. BULLSHIT. Code quality is the most important criterion of a dev. Nice try evading an argument. Did I ever state otherwise? But the best is, we have known devs, but since some of them are anon, it's all bad, right? ;) another false dichotomy. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 04:17:47 PM Now you see why a claim that "non-anon" devs are better is a nonsense. If Nxt had 1000 devs then laws of statistics could be applied (even if your claim was true), Nxt has only 3 anon devs and anyone claiming that it lowers quality of the code says a silly thing, statistics simply doesn't work for small numbers. First of all, what is the truth 33.3% anonymous devs or 66.66% anonymous devs? Anon Devs: we have around 9 core (ish) devs, 3 of whom are non-anonymous. Not perfect, but, hey, it's crypto. Secondly, you are presenting a false dichotomy again. Anonymous devs are fine, but with Fintech the majority of core devs and the project maintainer should be transparent. I was thinking about excatly that all the time! It's quite subtle. (not pretending that my arguments are flawless) Perhaps its nuanced because I am more interested in the truth and am open to admitting where I am wrong (like I have done multiple times). Nxt was open-source since day 0. Unobfuscated Java binary = source code. Google around and you will find several repositories with decompiled source code. It repeats the original source code with 99% matching (the rest 1% is caused by empty lines). While not entirely true, I agree that this attack was over-reaching because it isn't fair comparing the transparency of the development process of Bitcoin (in this context) with NxT. Bitcoin has already enough of a network effect where it doesn't need to worry so much about clones ripping off their code. Nxt had good reasons to with-hold code and still has good reasons not to show all in development in progress. I can see this is slowly changing as well with NxT growing. The true shift is if or when many merchants start using NxT so it could start to transform from being mostly a speculative instrument to a useful one. At this point NxT devs should be more comfortable showing unreleased code. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 04:54:58 PM First of all, what is the truth 33.3% anonymous devs or 66.66% anonymous devs? I don't know exact numbers, only 3 devs were anonymous and I saw somewhere that Nxt had 9 devs. Let's assume that there are only 3 devs and all of them are anonymous. What does it change? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 05:01:02 PM First of all, what is the truth 33.3% anonymous devs or 66.66% anonymous devs? I don't know exact numbers, only 3 devs were anonymous and I saw somewhere that Nxt had 9 devs. Let's assume that there are only 3 devs and all of them are anonymous. What does it change? Doesn't change anything, NxT should still be less trusted than Bitcoin, and specifically because it has a mostly anonymous dev team and core maintainer(one reason amongst others). There should be higher standards with FinTech because you are dealing with peoples life savings. Bitcoin still needs a lot of work before I can suggest people use it 100%. NxT is in a completely different category of risk. If Gavin commits some malicious code to steal bitcoin's in the next core release we can go after him. If Jean-Luc does this with NxT than finding him will be more difficult. It is the same reason I warn people to not deposit any funds in Bitcoin banks and exchanges with anonymous owners. Huge red flag! Additionally, bitcoin developer have social consequences if they make mistakes, their real reputation is on the line, not some pseudonym reputation. There is a day and night difference between the two.... and frankly me having to be so explicit with what should be obvious is a little disconcerting. You cannot hide behind the fact that the source code is included within each release and the responsibility lies within the user to do audits and compile from source. That isn't realistic for 99.9% of users. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 05:11:30 PM BULLSHIT. Code quality is the most important criterion of a dev. Nice try evading an argument. Did I ever state otherwise? Yes, looks so to me: Quote Quote the background of the developers can give us some understanding of their technical proficiency -> So does the quality of the code they write Yes, I agree with this in a utopian fantasy developer world. Completely, ignoring reality, and my previous comments.So you agree in an utopian fantasy world AND in the real world? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 05:15:01 PM If Gavin commits some malicious code to steal bitcoin's in the next core release we can go after him. No, he will say that the key was compromised and he didn't know about that. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 05:20:44 PM So you agree in an utopian fantasy world AND in the real world? No, I agree with you conceptually if that reality existed, but it doesn't. Well, so what happened to Mark Karpeles aka CEO of Mt.GOX ? He is still a free man and no one is going to lynch him ? Good that we know him right... First of all, the legal system of the state is usually slow and inept at bringing justice. The investigators just released their preliminary reports and he still might find jail time. Secondly, regardless if the state is effectual or not there is a another type of justice which is immediately brought to light with frauds like Josh Garza and Mark Karpeles. They have to hire body guards , they have to spend a lot of resources and forever fear that retribution will be around the corner, they are socially ostracized, they will have a really hard time with any future business pursuits or contracts. Their credibility is shot. With a pseudonym you aren't putting much on the line. Once you commit the fraud or fuck up , you can just create a new persona. Do you really believe that there are separate dev teams for all 700+ pump and dump scamcoins ? No, of course not, there are anonymous devs recreating new scams and ponzis when the last one folds all the time. If Gavin commits some malicious code to steal bitcoin's in the next core release we can go after him. No, he will say that the key was compromised and he didn't know about that. Than we can scrutinize and investigate to validate. Additionally, that was one of the original criticisms of NxT that Jeff mentioned- Quote from: Jeff Garzik “What is necessary, for NXT or any other crypto-finance software, is to prove independent reproducibility. The next step is to proactively have developers and community members cross-check each other, to make sure the build produced is the same for all. This helps ensure that the release manager is not under duress, unknowingly infected with malware, or corrupt. No security solution is perfect, but it raises the bar significantly. You should never trust just one person to produce release binaries, in any crypto-finance project. That’s called a Single Point of Failure, and it is easy to attack such a narrow victim vector.” https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-core-developer-jeff-garzik-believes-nxt-is-a-scamcoin/ NxT has a single point of failure , while the bitcoin core team cross checks each other with each build. Additionally, Bitcoin has multiple implementations interacting with the blockchain, so you don't even have to trust Gavin or the rest of the core team. What I have noticed you doing repeatedly is making a shifting the sands or moving the goal posts logic fallacy by repeatedly discussing flaws or weaknesses within the improvements we are suggesting instead of realizing what any security researcher knows that nothing is 100% secure and we can only make attempts at increasing the levels of security. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 05:34:10 PM Than we can scrutinize and investigate to validate. Additionally, that was one of the original criticisms of NxT that Jeff mentioned- After the damage is done? Not very smart. “What is necessary, for NXT or any other crypto-finance software, is to prove independent reproducibility. The next step is to proactively have developers and community members cross-check each other, to make sure the build produced is the same for all. This helps ensure that the release manager is not under duress, unknowingly infected with malware, or corrupt. No security solution is perfect, but it raises the bar significantly. You should never trust just one person to produce release binaries, in any crypto-finance project. That’s called a Single Point of Failure, and it is easy to attack such a narrow victim vector.” [/quote]Why reproducibility is required? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 05:38:03 PM After the damage is done? Not very smart. Its being done before and after. Are you suggesting there is no value in investigating mistakes or crimes after they happen? Why reproducibility is required? That is one method, amongst many, in our tool chest for auditing code. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 05:39:00 PM So you agree in an utopian fantasy world AND in the real world? No, I agree with you conceptually if that reality existed, but it doesn't.Sorry for playing games with you, but now I can conclude that you don't agree in the real world to this bold part Quote the background of the developers can give us some understanding of their technical proficiency -> So does the quality of the code they write This means you agree to this: Quote the quality of the code of the developers can not give us some understanding of their technical proficiency in the real world which is pretty bold Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 05:45:54 PM Its being done before and after. Are you suggesting there is no value in investigating mistakes or crimes after they happen? People think that a non-anon dev won't try to scam them and in the end we get an insecure system. That is one method, amongst many, in our tool chest for auditing code. Java code doesn't need reproducibility. Jeff showed that he understands nothing in Java, this automatically reduces value of his advice to zero. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 05:46:25 PM So you agree in an utopian fantasy world AND in the real world? No, I agree with you conceptually if that reality existed, but it doesn't.Sorry for playing games with you, but now I can conclude that you don't agree in the real world to this bold part Quote the background of the developers can give us some understanding of their technical proficiency -> So does the quality of the code they write This means you agree to this: Quote the quality of the code of the developers can not give us some understanding of their technical proficiency in the real world which is pretty bold I don't understand why this is so complicated for you to understand. It would be great and ideal if everyone compiled from source and performed security audits with every version. In reality, this doesn't happen, even if 100% of the users are capable of this task. Thus we have to implement other means and layers of security to bolster up the inadequacies of the end user security. Understand? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 05:48:54 PM It would be great and ideal if everyone compiled from source and performed security audits with every version. You are wrong if you rely on audit of the others (as was suggested by Jeff). If you want to know why, just read Trusted Third Parties Are Security Holes by Nick Szabo (http://nakamotoinstitute.org/trusted-third-parties/). Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: achimsmile on January 19, 2015, 05:49:47 PM So you agree in an utopian fantasy world AND in the real world? No, I agree with you conceptually if that reality existed, but it doesn't.Sorry for playing games with you, but now I can conclude that you don't agree in the real world to this bold part Quote the background of the developers can give us some understanding of their technical proficiency -> So does the quality of the code they write This means you agree to this: Quote the quality of the code of the developers can not give us some understanding of their technical proficiency in the real world which is pretty bold I don't understand why this is so complicated for you to understand. It would be great and ideal if everyone compiled from source and performed security audits with every version. In reality, this doesn't happen, even if 100% of the users are capable of this task. Thus we have to implement other means and layers of security to bolster up the inadequacies of the end user security. Understand? I understand you, but I'm not sure that trusting a dev because he is known is a good layer of security. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 05:55:25 PM I understand you, but I'm not sure that trusting a dev because he is known is a good layer of security. It's not and Nick Szabo explains why. Bottom line of the current discussion is already obvious: non-anon devs is bad because people trust them. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 05:56:17 PM People think that a non-anon dev won't try to scam them and in the end we get an insecure system. So your logic is that it is best to act shady as hell to insure that your potential users are sufficiently paranoid and perform more audits? Or is their some special degree of heightened paranoia you deliberately try to instill with your users to add greater security? I assume this fringe benefit outweighs all the advantages of transparency, Really??? Java code doesn't need reproducibility. Jeff showed that he understands nothing in Java, this automatically reduces value of his advice to zero. With regards to reproducibility, there are many different things we could be discussing here but I will take a stab at what I think you are referring to and why Jeff is still right: Yes, I understand using separate compilers on different platforms can result in different class files. wouldn't it be a good idea, since you are working with Java, that you coordinate and use the same platform and compiler to create a deterministic jar so you can have the added benefit of reproducibility and verification? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 06:00:59 PM It would be great and ideal if everyone compiled from source and performed security audits with every version. You are wrong if you rely on audit of the others (as was suggested by Jeff). If you want to know why, just read Trusted Third Parties Are Security Holes by Nick Szabo (http://nakamotoinstitute.org/trusted-third-parties/). We shouldn't rely on audits from others, but we are forced to in the real world. Don't tell me you do a thorough audit and compile from scratch every bit of open source code on your computer with every version. No one does that except Richard Stallman, and I am sure even he skips an audit or compile from source every now and again. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 06:01:38 PM So your logic is that it is best to act shady as hell to insure that your potential users are sufficiently paranoid and perform more audits? Or is their some special degree of heightened paranoia you deliberately try to instill with your users to add greater security? I assume this fringe benefit outweighs all the advantages of transparency, Really??? No. Don't distort my position, just read what I wrote upthread. With regards to reproducibility, there are many different things we could be discussing here but I will take a stab at what I think you are referring to and why Jeff is still right: Yes, I understand using separate compilers on different platforms can result in different class files. wouldn't it be a good idea, since you are working with Java, that you coordinate and use the same platform and compiler to create a deterministic jar so you can have the added benefit of reproducibility and verification? Deterministic jars give 0 (zero) benefit because decompiled binary can be compared to the code produced by compiling and decompiling source code. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 06:05:36 PM We shouldn't rely on audits from others, but we are forced to in the real world. Don't tell me you do a thorough audit and compile from scratch every bit of open source code on your computer with every version. No one does that except Richard Stallman, and I am sure even he skips an audit or compile from source every now and again. Blackbox testing, heuristic analysis... there are a lot of ways to do audit without making humans to read the code. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 06:07:47 PM Deterministic jars give 0 (zero) benefit because decompiled binary can be compared to the code produced by compiling and decompiling source code. Now you are conflating internal and external processes. Additionally, ignoring my repeated statement of fact that few people in the real world compile from scratch . Allowing users the ability to confirm a hash is useful. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Come-from-Beyond on January 19, 2015, 06:09:41 PM Now you are conflating internal and external processes. Additionally, ignoring my repeated statement of fact that few people in the real world compile from scratch . Allowing users the ability to confirm a hash is useful. My next post addressed compiling from scratch issue. Hash is not useful, I give you 1 hour before responding to the next your post. Take this time to read the paper of Nick Szabo I linked above. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: inBitweTrust on January 19, 2015, 06:11:37 PM Blackbox testing, heuristic analysis... there are a lot of ways to do audit without making humans to read the code. Yes , agreed , but they aren't being done with NxT, when this and jeff's helpful suggestions should all be done . This isn't some game for the iphone store ... we are talking about fintech with millions of dollars at stake. Where are your standards? My next post addressed compiling from scratch issue. Hash is not useful, I give you 1 hour before responding to the next your post. Take this time to read the paper of Nick Szabo I linked above. ok, I will read it an get back to you. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: Daedelus on January 19, 2015, 06:17:47 PM I was just about to post that I was pretty sure you hadn't read the paper! :D Sorry, was 2-3 pages behind.
Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: spud21 on January 20, 2015, 12:38:26 AM If Gavin commits some malicious code to steal bitcoin's in the next core release we can go after him. No, he will say that the key was compromised and he didn't know about that. Exactly ! What said they were the problem when they found the malleability bug ? They said the exchanges are to blame because you could see it else where that this was not the right transaction. So if they had such a good development system how could they missed that bug ? Was it originally meant to be a feature, or was it a bug? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: o0‡0o on February 14, 2015, 06:56:50 PM All the ones What is considered 'relevant' has a tendency to change over time and is highly subjective. Goldcoin has a series of workshops and conferences scheduled for 2015 and a new client pending release. Feel free to scrub it out, but the rumors of our death have been highly exaggerated. :P the marketcap represents only the lost coins so it cant fall lower https://i.imgur.com/USP3QEl.png what was your highest ranking ever 14? Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: cryptovigilante on February 14, 2015, 07:05:30 PM blah blah blah, another pathetic troll who is in his mind would tell everyone his gonna dump before he did it best conclusion ever. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: allwelder on February 15, 2015, 03:05:19 AM blah blah blah, another pathetic troll who is in his mind would tell everyone his gonna dump before he did it best conclusion ever. Title: Re: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too Post by: NWO on February 17, 2015, 02:52:14 AM Break it up children. Obviously I made the right decision (as NXT is now below 0.00005). Stop bringing this thread up from the dead every few weeks.
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