Bitcoin Forum

Guys!!

 I see a lot of discussion about the price of Bitcoin... Desperate people, thinking that is the end of the world the price of Bitcoin fall and fall but... What intrigues me is over:

 Why is the price rise so quickly in the first place ?!?!?

 The only answer I have in mind: The price of Bitcoin rise because the two U.S. senators have discovered about it and about Silkroad and they decided to try crack down the network... All parrot stuff... Media etc and etc... BOOM! The price went up... But in fact, the price was not worth much and, apparently still is not.

 So my curiosity is: What would it cost the Bitcoin today if this had not happened a few months ago?!

 That is, the trend should be the price of Bitcoin go back to the levels before this news, since the Bitcoin economy is not really prepared to be as valuable as they say it is worth.

 Thus, the Bitcoin value will going back to be more valuable in the future, maybe in a couple of years, or before, but everything will depend on the reformulation Bitcoin client, so it should be much more friendly and safe (backups, automatic wallet encryption and etc.) and especially , in global acceptance of Bitcoins for goods and services.

 We still have a LOT of work to do!!

 This is just the beginning. We shouldn't fear the Bitcoin price these days...

 Lets work more and talk less fellas!! COME ON!!

 The Bitcoin needs more developers!! C coders, Python coders, GUI design builders, a libbitcoin detached from the GUI, wallet encryption per default and automatic, more rich and user friendly interface, a web panel to your local bitcoind... And most important, a democratic development. Not this democratic we have in politics... A REAL open source democracy.

Best,
Thiago

Disagree. Who will pay to developers, if miners are not willing to pay them?

We need Enterpreneurs (to plan the development and to persuade miners)

+1

And I'll elaborate:

I guess that some of you are following the progress of Safebit, so some of you know that I'm raising funds to make really something out of it and not leave at a "open-source bitcoin wallet" status that most of the wallets out there are stuck on.

During the last couple of months, I've started meeting with very interesting people in the world of finances and high-tech, and I'm very surprised at how far and wide the idea of Bitcoin has spread.
There is only a handful of people in those areas who haven't heard about bitcoin at all, they may not know it by heart as we do, but they are listening and looking, following the progress.
I'm talking about Fortune 500 companies, venture capital, angels, financial companies, and technological companies. Everybody seems to know about bitcoin.

Their take on the idea itself is as varied as we see here on the forums, it seems that some think that it's passing fade, others are sure it's the next best thing, while some think that's it's like the Napster and we're still waiting for our Bittorrent (which I disagree with, because Bitcoin is already at the Bittorrent stage imho).

What most of the people here think wrongly is that this forum is any indication of what's really going on. There are numerous start-ups and entrepreneurs out there trying to make Bitcoin the big success that we all think it could be, and there are business people who are putting money on those ideas and people.

Currently 90% of the development we see in Bitcoin is catered by developers who invest their time into it without seeing a coin out of it (well, not true in this case, but you get the drift), open-source is sweet and all, but you can't build businesses and economy around open-source and free developers, it just doesn't work.

Soon, 6-or-so months from now, we'll start seeing high-quality work coming out of those not-free developers, where high-end products will start to dominate the Bitcoin landscape and bringing in more and more outsiders that would take interest in Bitcoins' great features and the fact that you don't need to pay for transactions of any size, and the fact that Bitcoin is unregulated and extremely hard to trace, this especially will cater to black-market, which is part of any market, and also porn. It's not coincidence that porn were the first businesses we saw using Bitcoins.

We all know that Bitcoin has boat-load of advantages over the existing monetary system in terms of transaction fees, regulation, and anonymity. We are all here because of those feature, and it's interesting not only us, but everybody around the world. Most just haven't heard about Bitcoin yet.

The price of Bitcoin does not reflect anything, it's pure speculations. People are making a lot of money by playing with the price of Bitcoin, but for now the only things that people are buying with Bitcoins are USD and drugs, but that's going to change soon with the advent of high-quality developers backed by high-equity funding.

You don't have to believe me, and I even may be wrong, but just wait. And for those who are selling their coins because of the fear - I say good! at least there are buyers ;)

 I am a miner (only 5GHash now) and I would like to pay for the Bitcoin development.

 In fact, I'm already doing this, but for my exchange site... So I can get more money, to pay for the Bitcoin development soon as possible...

 BTW, who pay for the Linux development?! There is a LOT of volunteers that would like to make something useful for mankind.

 Don't you know about Nikola Tesla?! He did all he did, not for money. We have global electricity, he develop and built the first hidroelectric power plant FOR US! For no money. He was a real human being.

 Money is a false incentive.

 But we are still living on this kind of society, so, lets do our best! Even if it is for free! For the health of people, you and me. Because at the end of the day, we all win!

 Think about it... All the governments of this world are working so hard to fuck us every single day! We NEED to do something about it!

 Bitcoin: Currency of Resistance!!

Best,
Thiago

It's failing because nobody is going to buy a solid house on a shitty foundation.


solid house-> bitcoin
shitty foundation -> internet.

shitty foundation? Please, tell us more, you seem so knowledgeable...

Freenetgeek?

Also, mtgox screwed mtgoxlive up. The graphs are not at all even close to accurate

Where have you been the last two months of rape and pillage?

I used to think the rise was due to people reading the silk road article, but now in retrospect, I see that speculators thought the article on this would propel bitcoins, so they bought, bought, bought.....

Patience is king, in trading bitcoins.

Exactly. I am a developer. Money is not the issue.

I've started a big project, now it is on hold for several month already.

Reasons? Total mess and lack of clear leadership of BitCoin (not that I pretend), uncertain BitCoin fate with all the scandals, hacks, legal problems, scalability issues, and again - the general mess and the amount of morons, nobody can do anything about.

It's just a mess now. I guess we have to let it sort of die out, the price to drop to 1-2 dollars, morons get tired and move to new online "adventures" and then this project can quietly and slowly begin to evolve into something usable...

Agreed. I won't be too concerned as long as the price is above $0.01. It's amazing that a decentralized cryptocurrency has any value, much less a value greater than the dollar.

In my opinion, the best thing for Bitcoin at this point would be a couple of quiet years without much of the crazy adoption/growth/"ungrowth" that we've seen recently. In that time, the client could become rock solid and infrastructure (exchanges, etc.) could become well-established. It seems that things will continue to go fast, though.

A wise man speaks!

thiago you are 100% right the success of linux(now android and the many other linux ofshoots) and bit torrent are all entirely due to the power of the open source concept. this why we trust it we don't want bitcoin to become dll(microsoft) city of closed and locked boxes. Lack of transparency weakens all technology and also creates distrust... The transparency of open source is entirely what has and always will ensure the bitcoin's success...

AMEN

Yeah, I personally welcome the fear mongers here for this very reason.  I think it's good to scare away the skittish speculators.  It'll inspire much more confidence if prices rise due to proven utility, rather than hopeful expectations.

Wild growth combined with infrastructure not ready to support it has been a pretty bad mix so far.

Care to elaborate instead of throwing out unusable statements?
You say the internet is a shitty foundation, now please explain...

And I've been developing Safebit (http://www.google.com/search?q=Safebit+Bitcoin) in the last two months, if you really must know...

Thank you for a reasonable post. We got ahead of ourselves in many ways, and like it or not this price drop will give us time and reason to focus on real challenges. We'll lose most of impatient (now upset) speculators who were only doing damage to the system hoping to profit fast out of thin air. Good riddance.
The past year or so, if nothing else, has taught us that even in this early stage Bitcoin is resilient - it survived major attacks and scams, and a speculation bubble. I'll keep mining, and I look forward to exchanging my coins for goods and services. Not tomorrow, not next month.  

+1 !

FINALLY!!!

Lets talk about your projects! About the Bitcoin development... Do not be discouraged now because of the apparent mess, it's easy to rearrange and, maybe this is just a cloud of dust in front of a great thing... The Bitcoin itself... It is there, shining, but we only can see it through the Hubble Space Telescope infrared cams... lol

The Bitcoin development needs of nontechnical people involved. And this asks for a kind of "Interface" to the Bitcoin future, where everybody can participate.

The Bitcoin-Development mailing list as a few messages per day... I'm reading it one per week, I like it... Go ahead and sign up there!

Best!

I'm with you!!!
We are already at this wave... Go surfing!!

AMEN!!!   LOL      ;D

Markets give you what you deserve, not what you want.

The beautiful Bitcoin, swimming in the creative destruction.

Have you been watching the National Geographic channel "Known Universe" marathon?  They just had a segment on Nikola Tesla and his coil.  Neat stuff!  :)

Markets give you what you can pay for.

And if you aren't able to pay for food, you will gonna die. Following the "laws of the market" as "we" do today...

Even if there is a lot of food on Earth... Markets tell you to let the food rot, and to not donate.

All in the name of profit.

SURE!!!  :-D

 I'm gonna rebuild the Wardenclyffe Tower, to send Wireless Electricity, voice and data, to entire Planet Earth, free for all. I'll continue the work of Tesla, with Bitcoins!!!

 I'm a HUGE fan of Tesla, I read a lot of books from him, plus some patents... Tesla rulez!!  :-D


 They tried to make the world forget his name - Nikola Tesla the greatest Inventor of all time:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaxD_4n3KMg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaxD_4n3KMg)


Cheers!
Thiago

There is no mess going on with Bitcoin right now. Is someone still thinking about Bruce Wagner or the hacks? Who cares? The security in sites such as Mt. Gox has been improved very significantly, Tradehill has been secure from the start and is building the Bitcoin.com site which will include a site similar to Mybitcoin in functionality.

On top of that we're probably very close to the release of new Bitcoin wallet with built-in encryption etc. This whole thing is just getting started. The reason the price drops right now is three-fold, 1) There are morons out there who think Bruce Wagner matters and sell 2) There has not been major hype for Bitcoin in a while 3) And this is the most important: traders have seen a downward trend and they have been selling.

So what needs to happen is a) people forgetting about the bad stuff that has happened during the last few months b) we need to build infra and services and get some good news coverage again c) show the traders there is an upward trend

So apparently your project depend on BW and/or mybitcoin, so it is great that it wont see the light.
If not, nice trolling attempt.

actually greedy and /or naive miners did (and do ) have something to do with the price.
when you actually expect to sell @ 10$, 8$ , 6$ ... it is going to get ugly. Until someone with resources decides to buy it in just before the next bubble.
as for the tesla subject that someone mentioned.
i think that tesla was working with dc. global electricity is used with ac.

Apparently?! Who's trolling now?

Here is a very recent IRC-log from just a few minutes ago, from the owner of Mt. Gox:

[14:23:25] <@free'MagicalTux> btw I see that most of the bitcoins we were watching (stolen coins) were sold today
[14:25:26] <@free'MagicalTux> TuxBlackEdo: no, stolen coins from other police reports
[14:25:38] <@free'MagicalTux> however we don't have enough proof to do anything
[14:25:43] <@free'MagicalTux> there is only reports from people

Timestamp is Finnish time. It's an interesting bit of information. Seems that thiefs have been accelerating the sell-off significantly.

Let us go over your points:
No fundamentals have changed. Bitcoin is the same as a few month ago.
I guess with scandals you mean BW, and by hacks you mean mybitcoin.
There are no other issues in bitcoin, apart from very imaginary ones like it could not be up to task of serving billions of users *tomorrow*.
I really hope your project does not depend on the actual number of morons on this very forum.
So that leaves only BW and mybitcoin.

Care to tell us anything about this "big project"? I mean it is on hold anyway, and maybe it is a good idea and some other developer does not care as much as you about BW/mybitcoin.

No. Precisely because it is on hold and there is nothing to show.

What's the point? To gather all the "boo's" from all the booers? When something is done you can always tell them - "say what you want, but this is done and working".
When there is nothing to show - what's the point?

Maybe someone else wants to finish it.

Ideas are cheap. Anyone can say "I want to live on the moon". Yeah, that's a neat idea.
The question is - how are you going to do it? Implementation is everything. Small day-to-day decisions during project development.

So, sorry, I see no point, let's leave it at that.

So in essence there is no prove that you even have an idea, let alone some project on hold :(

I don't think I have to  prove anything to you.

Also - this kind of attitude is exactly why I don't talk about anything that is not finished.

It seems you don't understand. There are tons of developers here. If your idea would be as good as you say, some could join you.

Tons of developers here, who just want to join somebody else's project? Really? :)

Come on, aq, let's finish this discussion. Don't you have better things to do? ;)

Your thinking is very, very wrong. Educate yourself before you start thinking. Ideally, sit down and read textbooks and patents - don't just watch youtube.

Are you talking about how authentication on the Internet is broken?

Hackers May Have Nabbed Over 200 SSL Certificates (http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/08/31/2221248/Hackers-May-Have-Nabbed-Over-200-SSL-Certificates)
Dutch Government Revokes Diginotar Certificates (http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/09/03/0720218/Dutch-Government-Revokes-Diginotar-Certificates)
Rogue SSL Certs Issued For CIA, MI6, Mossad (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/09/05/1752258/Rogue-SSL-Certs-Issued-For-CIA-MI6-Mossad)
(Possible) Diginotar Hacker Comes Forward (http://it.slashdot.org/story/11/09/06/1245214/Possible-Diginotar-Hacker-Comes-Forward)

I personally think the shitty foundation is consumer computers designed to betray the user, but whatever.

i too would like to know some about your "big project" and some details since you are a "developer".

This has been my theory for awhile, that these recent price slides are due to people selling stolen coins.  They want to liquidate their stolen assets at any cost.  They could sell at $1 and still "profit."  They don't care about the future of bitcoin, and they are not interested in all the great development news.  I see this as a buying opportunity for those of us who are here to stay.

Nothing is wrong. Everything is great. We are all very happy here.

Reality check: It's only been 90 days since the Mt. Gox break in and crash.  Tradehill has only been operating for about 90 days.  In the last 90 days we've had the MyBitcoin collapse, the Global Standard Bank scam, the Dwolla reversals, the Bruce Wagner expose, and a steady decline of about 20% per month in the price of Bitcoins. There's still no outside audit to provide assurance that Mt. Gox has all the funds deposited with them.

Get real.

And what's the point with all that incidents ?
Bitcoin is still working flawlessly.

And continuous inflation of bitcoins themselves as new ones are created.

Bitcoin doesn't need 'this' internet. All it needs is storage and communication. This internet is where our boat is parked right now, foundation analogy is not good.

Lets face the truth. A lot of people out there think that the google search bar is the actual internet. Similar to this, there are people like Nagle out there that think that Bitcoin is Bruce Wagner and mybitcoin. Don't blame him for being simple minded.

then if you're so "real" why don't you put your money where your mouth is.  i'll bet you 100 BTC to be held in escrow that the USD price per BTC will be higher one year from now than it is today.  you're a douche so i don't expect you to take the bet.

You should do it in USD, else it’s an asymmetric bet where he wouldn’t really gain anything if he was right (as he is extremely bearish).

It is an asymmetric bet in USD too. They should just agree to swap the other's preferred currency in the future at today's rate.

fine, i'll bet 100 BTC or $681 USD.  of course he'll NEVER take it cuz he's a paid shill.

Yeah, I wonder why noone of them has actually taken up such a bet yet, I’ve really seen many offers.

Tesla was the father of the Alternate Current. He invented the entire electrical system of the today's World... He just electrified our society, only he, alone. He win the War of The Currents easily... Almost all we have, we should thank Tesla, AC, radio, remote control. microwaves, radio-astronomy, star wars, wireless electricity, electric motor / generator used at hydroelectric / nuclear / termo power plants... Plus, Tesla optimized the Direct Current, promoted by the ugly Thomas Edson...

Best!
Thiago

b/c they're paid shills who are scared shitless that btc will go thru the roof which it will.  spineless trolls who are only here to try and knock the price down.  just wait i say and you're gonna see the explosion of a lifetime.

Guys,

 I'm a little disappointed here...  :'(

 People fight for no reason, are sarcastic, scoff, make fun... Rather than talk and explain and more important, listen carefully...

 I would LOVE to talk to evolve... Instead of fight for no reason...

 I will not mention any name but, everybody on the Net, should look at the mirror before any post and ask to yourself:

 Is this message that I'm about to post, something that I would like to receive?!

 This is kind of well know Netiquette. Or simple, education...

 We are about to change the future of man kind!!! So, we must live up to this challenge.

Cheers!
Thiago