Bitcoin Forum

So Pangolin has 2 new miners for presale on their website.

The BTC miner is a 33TH unit running at 2145W - for $1999


How are they getting these results using 16nm ?

(not sure why they put "or better" in there - dont they know what processors they are using ?)

Thoughts ?

Look at the amount of wattage it uses. Yikes.

Easy, just check out the overclocking threads for the s9: given the right voltage, freq tweaks and decent cooling they can run in the same per-chip hash rates.

As for the 'or better' I suspect they are either using multiple foundries for their chips or as the 16nm node further matures are anticipating at least 1 more process improvement for the node.

so they do 2145/33000 = 0.065 per gh?

and are really by far the best most efficient miner ever made?

So if you purchased the GMO miner  at .082 per gh you got crushed by this miner.

The M10 is like a freaking beast


btw bitmain has dropped the s9i down under 600 to 564


https://pangolinminer.com/

M10 rules  if this is true.

My thoughts exactly. Right now, the M10s have the best specs out there. And the price is pretty good.

I'd be leery on a presale. Just look at the M3 that went from almost $2k to under $300 from price wars and market fluctuation. Was a nice pump and dump. Glad I sold all mine shortly after receiving. They used more power than advertised too. Bitmain or Canaan has to be releasing something more efficient to start new price war for GMO and this. Someone will most likely be shipping something better/cheaper before these and GMO even start shipping.

The s9i is 544 with a 100 dollar coupon. 4 days out

The m10 is 2200 with shipping 70 days out

Tough call to spend 2200 on a preorder

Yea, destroys the the b3. 33th is nice but over 3300w. This is more in line what we're talking about efficiency wise in one of the other speculation threads.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2390138.msg42861780#msg42861780

this m10 is the most efficient miner ever built. (claimed not proven yet)

I am truly looking forward  to giving it a good testing and demo.

If it is under 0.070 a gh  and does at least 30th it would still be the best miner ever built.

I also hope that they   create a lower speed optional firmware.

They made firmware for the M3x  to save power see below

https://pangolinminer.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007140454-Low-power-Firmware-for-M3X-release

An option like this for the new miner would be good for some of us.

The ability to lower power to 1800 watts on low speed and say 27.3th
vs 2145 watts  on high speed and say 33th  would really make this gear a winner

I'll be interested to see what the real power draw is. My old M3s were pulling 2400W each vs the advertised 2000W.

Specs do say +-10% on power draw...

Yes they do, but +10% on 2000W is 2200W, not 2400W... That's 400W over between the two.

even at 2400watt on the wall

2400/33000 = 0.072727272 watts per gh which is better then anything else

time will tell  I will do detail videos on it in the garage and in the solar array  I will meter it in both places

I will also attempt to test other psu's if at all possible.

I have a 2400 watt psu
I have a 2500 watt psu
I have a 2880 watt psu
I have a 2980 watt psu

along with the stock attached psu.

I am waiting for a contact email  as Hagss setup it up and I should hear from them soon.

My point got a little lost, I simply meant I am dubious of their power ratings.

Yes even at 2400W this current model would be nice, hopefully it stays in this range.

I hope I am wrong as my M3s were excellent miners and this one looks awesome.

Well my M3 did just about exactly as advertised.  They sent me and Hagss testers to demo..

So frankly we hope this will be the same.

We will let you know  when we get them.

We've never had a request for a whatsminer. Personally I don't know much about them. Pangolin is the place though? Reputable? We'll want to list the M10 probably wait another month on the altcoin asic. Nov is so far off in this world.

We're just very confused as Pangolin hasn't responded to us at all.

They are not ready as of now.  So they may not have wanted to list with you at this time.

Pangolin is the manufacturer or a reseller?

Try shooting HagssFin a pm he would know more then me.

Last dec he set the Demos up.  I did the YouTube videos and he did the write up on the M3.

We each got a demo machine.  We paid for them they were sent early at a very small discount to us.  But that was when Btc was to the moon 19900 usd if I recall

Pangolinminer is the overseas sales team for WhatsMiner company.

I figured once they started working with 16nm, Pangolinminer would come up with something decent. I never had
any issues with my M3's, and Pangolinminer was easy to deal with. Still a breath of fresh air, to have another company
in this market.

@HagssFIN and philipma

Looking forward to seeing you guys in action again!!! Keep up the great work fellas!!!

Will be nice to test this one out.  under 70 watts a th  will be something if it does it.

Back in 2012 

500 watts a gh  or 500,000 watts a th  this was with gpu mining my 7970's  used about 170watts and did 333mh under clocked.

We'll continue to reach out. Is Whatsminer.net their official website?


This is reason we're not doing technical reviews but blog styled overviews. I couldn't stress more here that the community has this covered, glad they listened. I'm pushing for putting links to Haggs and phil's work's in correlation to our blogs. We'll see how those conversations go.

Their website is http://www.pangolinminer.com

Thanks, whatsminer.net looks like a scam site ftw.

If you're comfortable PM'ing contact info to your rep there please do. Still hitting a brick wall with them.

You can try contacting PangolinminerLaurent by using the Telegram app.

I still don't understand how Whatsminer was able to achieve efficiency on par with 7nm tech while using 16nm!

Someone mentioned overclocking, but it's pretty hard to believe that they got almost twice as efficient from overclocking alone. If this is how they did it, does that mean that the M10 probably couldn't be overclocked further by the end user?

You've understood it a little wrong. Overclocking has close to nothing to do with achieving a better power efficiency.

Okay they got a m3 using 28nm to do about 166 watts a th

The antminer s7 did about 250 watts a th so they were more then 30% better


So the s9i does about 96 watts a th on a 16nm chip

An improvement of 30% would be about 67 watts a th on a 16 nm chip.

Since they did 30% once they may be able to do it again.


Your idea of overclocking it is like me insisting to drive my Kia Forte at 162 kilometer per hour.

Or 100 miles an hour if American .


What I find interesting is if they succeed on the 16nm chip.

And the 7nm chip does 65 watts per then will they drop that to 45 watts.  but that would be the the m13 in 2020 ;D

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/OtOmsQdtJW6oEu6PpVsEYQ

looks like they just release a Chinese review yesterday and M10 has become true, WOW~

There is a English video review, enjoy
https://v.qq.com/x/page/k0756ahoh7d.html?start=15

Very little detail.  Haggs will have a lot more and my youtube videos will also have a lot of detail.

I do look forward to testing it.

Just to confirm, whatsminer.net IS NOT THE OFFICIAL SITE? sucks you have to be so careful these days. I can only imagine the horror of sending funds to a scam site. It could financially ruin people. Thank God for this forum doing what it takes to spread correct information.

default about 30TH, but you can change voltage and overclock it.

slushpool isnt supported yet

Source for this? I'm not even sure why it would be the case...

my colleague is testing this miner atm. only 200-500GH reported. other pools work fine. i already contacted slush about that

Thats crazy, intrigued about what might be the problem.

I was not contacted for demo unit to review it.
I would want to test one myself.

While it is nice that 30th can overclock I would like to know if it underclocks .

If it does not work at slush it may have something to do with asicboost support on that pool.

So ckpool is asicboost
Bitminter is asicboost

Does the miner work on those pools?

F2pool also supports asicboost, it would be very interesting if the miner does not like any of those pools.

Lastly Kano supports asicboost he claims he fixed a bug in pool software for asicboost.

It would be interesting to see if he is the only asicboost pool that does well with this miner.

I will ask in Monday if Pangolinminer guys have any news for me and you Philip.

Thanks Matti

I guess they haven't responded to our requests. :/

Hopefully we can list but since we've never done business with them before we'll be pretty conservative working with a company that can't reply for weeks and counting.  

Edit: Selfishly I want one. How many of these is safe for my 240v 30A line? 2-3 units?

@minefarmbuy
2 units.

Thanks HF. I guess a good winter project will be rerunning thicker gauge. I'd like to have 4 units per line. Simple math would make that 60A and 6 gauge wire I imagine.

We'll probably have to wait for units to land and reviews to come out before we web it. I think sales has placed a few special requests already though. Production might be tight for them since their second batch is listed two months out from September batch.

Honestly it would most likely be more economical to run additional 30A circuits. PDUs are cheaper, wiring is cheaper, etc.

haha we are in the same boat. my company want to order samples, too but they dont reply on wechat xD i think they dont want our money

Tried getting a quote in past for investor with 1,500 megawatts and no response. Probably for the best though cause everyone else's gear prices plummeted shortly after.

from what I understand, pangolinminer is based in Hong Kong so all warranty claims will need to be shipped there

pangolin miner is NOT the manufacturer. ShenMa/Bitewei Is the Manufacturer and run by former Bitmain engineer Yang Zuo Xing

whatsminer.net is the US reseller based in Ft Lauderdale, FL so if you are a US buyer this would suit you better for warranty claims

First batch pre-order shipment date changed from 09/20/2018 to 10/25/2018. Was thinking about grabbing one when delivery was September, but most likely won't now.

I may get a test unit around sept 18-21.

Yes.

Pangolinminer has an official joint venture with Whatsminer,
they are a overseas distributor. https://pangolinminer.com/cooperate/


Same here. I have not heard about delays. Maybe they sold out the first batch?

They changed the dates everywhere for first batch and lowered the price by $100. I guess only those who placed an order for September 20 would know if there's a delay or not. Hopefully it doesn't end up like the M3 pre-order where they are unprofitable by the time you receive them.

Support says the September batch is sold out and the Oct/Nov batches are new runs

I have had half of my M3's (1 of 2) go bad. Dead hash board.  After initiating warranty claim on their website, you're directed to a Telegram channel for support via TeamViewer.  The Florida address seems useless.  I asked about sending to FL address, but was directed to ship failed board to China (confusing address has to be 100% correct or they claim to not know where it went).  They eventually found it and sent a replacement - turnaround time is about a month.

They could really improve their reputation by getting their Florida address operational for North American support.
 Even if their hash boards  have a high failure rate, if they can get the turnaround time closer to a week instead of a month it'd still be worth it.

Ok so it means that my guess was right.

November batch was always listed. Anyone here order a September batch? I see them listed still on whatsminer.net also with October batch.

Doesn't anyone thinks it's a bit weird that GMO's miner B3 is an 7nm architecture, does ~33TH@3300w and the Whatsminer M10 is at 16nm and does ~33TH@2100w?

I'm a bit sceptic  ???

Obviously the size of the chip isnt the only factor in power efficiency.  Keep in mind the guy behind WHatsminer M10 is the famous engineer behind the Antminer S7 & S9 chips who was and still is one of the most reliable and effective chips on the market since 2016.

I wouldnt be surprised if he managed to make is 16nm chip design even more efficient.

Not weird at all. GMO tried to be first out of the gate using 7nm and as a result their designs are based on highly immature process technology. As is always the case the results -- suck. Whatsminer simply repeated what they did in the past - wait for the processes behind any given node size to mature and then take advantage of the usually very substantial performance gains seen vs results from 1st gen production or in the case of GMO what was not even that. GMO was touting their proof-of-principle/engineering testing chips as production items.

the m3  does 160 watts per 1th

the s7 does 250 watts per 1th

same guy  made these chips he did a chip that uses 64%  of the s7

so the s9 does 100 watts per 1th

so the m10  at 64% of that would be 64 watts per 1th

since the same guy  built or helped to build all of these chips  it makes sense to me this chip/m10 could do 60 to 70 watts a th at an efficiency setting

It is why HagssFIN and I are eager to run tests on them.

At the moment  the most efficient miner  I have tested is  the Innosilicon T2Turbo  I get 80-82 watts a th on efficient setting.
If this gear drops me under 70 I will be getting it in larger amounts then just 1 unit.

Lol, and yet another worthless miner! However people seems to be fine with these products and keep buying ???

33TH does 0,0012 BTC a day, and again presume you have FREE energy (however, we all have to pay this...)
0,0012 x 365 = 0,438 BTC a year. Roughly taken the hashpower (at least) triples every year, so earnings \3
0,438\3= 0,146 BTC in the first 365 days.
Next year = 0,146\3 = 0,0486 BTC in the second year, makes a total of 0,1946 BTC to mine with this -thing- in 2 years.
(and with FREE energy)

1788 dollar + 117 dollar shipping = 1905 dollar = 0,2985 BTC

Total LOSS in 2 years with FREE energy: -0,09 BTC!

WOW, what a marvellous product ;)


I think we have past the point that buying miners with Crypto is no longer viable.
I stick to my BTC and will not buy any miners if even ROI cannot be made.
Why buy this kinda miners and lower the amount of BTC (LTC\ETH\etc.) you hodl?

You're even better of buying BTC now and skip mining!

@mammon

Yeah, it is quite hard at the moment.

The M10 will be one of the best miners, if not the best in power efficiency,
but I agree that they would need to adjust the price in this current situation.

Well, if this is the best they can do and you cannot make ROI  ???

That's why I said it would be a good thing if they would adjust the miner price.

And you also need very cheap electricity at the moment to be able to have profit.

Hmm, well let's hope people get it soon I'm really curious since I pre-ordered a B3 miner. I'm also now thinking about pre-ordering a m10 but the company doesn't seem as stable/"legit" as GMO in my opinion. But I also hate pre-oredering becuse of the difficulty adjustments.

long preorders are death to miners that is for sure.

and bitmain just cranks out  s9j for 388 + 80 to ship = 468 -55 coupon cost is 413 a miner  that is only good for people with 3 and 4 cent power.

If you buy 2 s9j for 776 + 126 to ship = 902 -110 coupons = 792 or 396 a miner.  This move is killing bitcoin as only large farms with dirt cheap power can buy it.

The solar array with buysolar and me always makes power  as it is paid off and maintenance is under 1 cent a kwatt.  but it only does 14 to 20 kwatts so that is 10 s9's in the winter

or 7 of these m10's

but  10 s9's = 140th
7 of these = 210 th

we have a hard call coming  do we load up on these or not.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/rolling.gif (http://www.sherv.net/)
More stable and 'legit'? Have you even bothered to read the 1st few pages of the threads about the GMO miners?

Not quite sure what you are reffering to but with "more legit" I mean that they are a stable company based in Japan and have their european side based in Switzerland which is better than just ordering from a Chinese manufacture with paying in advance.

Bitewei/Whatsminer is much more better in miner engineering than GMO.

That's a stupid statement to say that a company is more stable and trustworthy because it is located somewhere else than China. Just plain stupid.

Well it's just not somewhere else it's Japan. I'm pretty sure companies also has more legal obligation regarding the manufactiuring/selling and better consumer protection laws than China.
I'm not saying their hardware, software or even intention is better but if I just want to buy a miner as an enthusiast I still would've gone with them but I'm still considering buying the M10 too. :)

Buying hardware with free Ebay bucks, free Amazon gift cards, etc is an option for some. Customer loyalty program earnings reinvested

Status update:
My M10 review unit will be shipped out in Monday.

Very cool, looking forward to your review

That's some good communication to notify you that it's about to be shipped. I guess they are for review/breakdown. Is philip's on the way to? Wish we're getting a demo, makes it easier to sell to buyers when we've seen it can perform. We don't care to keep anything, just run it, pull it apart and ship it back since as a company we don't mine.

Pangolinminer guys are testing the miner,
WhatsMiner M10 hashing live at 34Th/s.
https://youtu.be/JZh837bEDWg

It is looking very promising. :)

Looks good, no pool side hash from what I saw unless I missed something. We'll continue with special requests and look to list for their October batch once we see pool rate. Looks great, so far.

Sounds like they are handing out free hash power as well to entice people to try out the M10, not a bad deal

https://twitter.com/whatsminer/status/1038464379736518656

Nice glad they contacted you with one.

I'm guessing they will send yours at the same time, but I forgot to ask about it from Laurent.

Nice, please keep us updated about the actual specs when you receive it!  By the way i would like to buy one or get one to test in one of our big scale farm, can you provide contact information to your guy at WhatsMiner?  I sent an email but they havent got back yet.

Laurent is from Pangolinminer company.

Pangolinminer has a joint venture with WhatsMiner and they are a official distributor for WhatsMiner.

Just ordered mine for the review.  paid 1817 usd in btc for it.


https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/tx/c4ae37b12029c80e9ad71c125f1d2b020daa5950e8b7f96d461422951fd6de1a/

Is that the late October batch?

No it should come sooner.

I will do a YouTube video showing how it stacks up against the innosilicon T2Turbo.


I was charged 1800 with free shipping discount.

I paid in btc and it was 1817 due to a slightly different btc rate.

I hope to get this by Friday 14th. Of this month.

Psst. next time tell them to lew me get in and get a demo unit :) early I will pay for it too if I like it... The sooner I get my hands on a machine the sooner I can see what it's limits are running at in the extreme hot and cold and maybe even with a few oc changes to it :)

Well if it does what it says it will be better then the innosilicon T2Turbo

And it is very close to same price.  Haggsfin and I will each have info on this in the next week or so.

Pangi's bulk pricing for 100+ and 500-1k units are really nice though compared to inno

must be nice to order 1000 of them :-\

    3 are 100th
  30 are 1ph
300 are 10 ph
900 are 100 ph

I wish the solar array could do 100 of them vs 6 or 7 of them

You wouldn't be able to cool them with your setup. Your garage would be hell for them too. Right at around 20-25 in a garage where even with 10k cfm your going to have heat problems and need more airflow than that.

Solar array could hold 30 units and cool them, but once we go over 20kwatts we need to buy power.

And buying power in nj costs too much.

Buying power? Let some one here haggle that for you.

I may need to find a northwest power guy with good rates.

Getting a second solar array has proven to be really slow here in NJ

I have tracking for the M10  it will arrive on Friday the 14th.

I do hope it can do 65-70 watts a th.

Sorry too busy having conversation in thread(s), mods must hate me.

Our listing for the M10 should hit today. We're hoping for better response from Pangolin but I guess they don't like selling many asics. Plus their pricing has been atrocious and steadily declining, we don't like to deal with the bs of buyers being upset on pricing drops for that long. Then their auto cart coupon drives me nuts as a marketer. .. .

Mostly just the selling stuff has been bothersome, as the unit looks great.

Price is still too high IMO, but being first to market allows them to do that. I expect price wars to start once someone else gets to market. ROI is going to be over a year if you have $0.05 kWh and if specs are accurate. Faster ROI with cheap 841 or S9.   

I got the shipping confirmation as well and it is due to delivery in Monday.

try  roi at 8 cent power

or roi at 10 cent power

the s9j  does 95 watts a th

this should do 67 watts a th


10 cent power

1 th at 67 watts a th does this


9-13 – 9-13 (1 day)   7019 G   0.06355   0.06292   0.06292  6 cent profit


1th at 95 watts does this

9-13 – 9-13 (1 day)   7019 G   -0.00433   -0.004284   -0.004284   loses .4 cents a th


so at 10 cent power  this allows you profit right now.

the s9j  does not

S9J is 93 W/TH and still profitable at $0.10 kWh depending on pool fees. Anyone that doesn't care about current value/quick profit most likely only cares about $/TH to mine as much BTC as quick as possible with lowest initial investment. M10 is $54/TH and S9 w/PSU is $31/TH.

That's a 43% price increase for 27% increase in efficiency.

If these were priced inline with S9, not considering efficiency increase, it'd be $1,023 ($31*33 TH/s). Add 27% for efficiency increase and this should be priced at $1300.

At $1800, it seems like they are trying to recoup losses on M3 sales when Bitmain and Avalon price warred each other and they didn't follow. They were still trying to sell for $700 for the longest time when S9's were $500.

The s9j is 93 watts only in a cold room.

It is more like 95 in a 85f room and more like 97 in a hot room.

If you have 3 4 5 cent power you would be a moron to buy the m10 but at 10 cent power the m10 looks closer and at 12 cent power the m10 looks better.

Why buy an s9j if you have 10 cent power and a hot room it loses money now. Or makes a dime a day.

The m10 makes money at 10 cent power and will do so for months.

The s9j will certainly be the choice of a big guy with 3 4 5 cent power.

But a marginal miner with 10 cent or more power cost the m10 has an attractive feature it makes money now.

I Think that maybe with 0,05c doesnt worth the s9j. If the dif keeps increasing like the last months (est 10% per month) and the price stay flat, at 0.05 the s9j became a shit piece of metal in 7 months, without considering other facility costs, M10 could handle 10 months.

Do you guys have any doubts that the dif will not increase 10% per month? cheap bad gears for low cent energy costs and expensive gears for higher cent costs, if price dont go up we are all screwed  ;D

A lot of truth to what you say.  I really try to get gear on PayPal 6 months no interest when margins are tight like now.

I project the m10 to still be good in 6 months.
I project the s9j to not be good for many miners very soon.

I won't coach philip but people be careful with credit even in a bull market. Low efficiency units should be striped, sold, or held for bull. If you're in for pure profit you have to flip to highest efficiency. You'll become a decent trader but not a day trader if you're mining power costs.

If you're looking to gear up now? There's the T2T only. I'd jump Oct batch M10 if I was in market and willing to wait though. From the look the value seems to be there it's just hard to speculate beyond very conservative(ly).

I'm stuck with 821's and s9's on moderate power cost. I won't be happy with these come '19. Look to gear up by Nov/Dec or hold out another quarter to two. Small, big mine, doesn't matter.

The other problem are these tariffs. A 25% increase in price generally makes these unprofitable at pretty much any residential rate in the US, at least BTC return wise. Feeling very lucky to have found a T2T in my local market for $1300.

Japan won’t have the tariff.

So gmo may make out.

---

My m10 comes today.  I paid btc for it.

The T2Turbo is much faster ship time then the m10

I still have zero idea of what the m10 will do.

I will know in a day or two and be able to weigh my next move

Very true, and hopefully Triple-1 turns out to be legit so we have another option among Japanese manufacturers.

Tariffs have been hit or miss just like typical 3% ish prior. If you're ordering bulk expect to pay it. It you're a consumer not a business on a single unit you'll probably skate by. Still though you never know. I imagine we'll get a lot of quotes till this subsides to forgo our usual customs service at a 25% rate. Then it doesn't really matter with our model.

Is the live video of this still going? I at least saw the UI hashing at 34th/s 22 hours in, hopefully for HF and phil have something great to review.

It is up and running!

my meter reads 2283 watts

it does flux up to 2346 watts

Video video
We want a video

I have an  unboxing video, but  camera battery needs recharge for an ops video.

33293 gh and 2346 watts = 70.5 watts a gh

unboxing at https://youtu.be/1dY5-eLuQYA

scroll to bottom of this link to see the hash rate on ck's pool

http://ckpool.org/users/16yLHLoeyuCLPMXkVpC3gyrRYvwRGwjKJr


power is now at 2358 watts but hash is over 34th see below

https://i.imgur.com/IHmC9g8.png (https://i.imgur.com/IHmC9g8.png)

so 2358/34350 = 68.6 watts a th

don't know how long it will work and it is loud but it is a motherfucking monster !

Niiicee

Still a long ROI, but that ths/w means it's going to be profitable even if the price is under 4k$, should be able to run at least 2 years
Has to be able to break even by then o.o

So far I have yet  to figure how to clock it.

As I always like to be able to slow gear down.

new video


Your video will be live at: https://youtu.be/U7N4YphoaCI

done raw no edits.

opinions so far
33 to 34 th at about  2350 watts = damn!


downside it is hotter then I care for:

 the case is hot
 the psu is hot

I have yet to figure out how to drop it to 30th and lower the watts

Cool vids Philip,
I can't wait to have a look at my unit in Monday.  :)

yeah it is very impressive right near the 68-70 watt a th mark.

I would love more info on website and to be able to back it off a bit

say 30th and 2000 watts

Yeah it would be cool if they could make a low-power firmware available, just like they did with the previous model M3X.

My Innosilicon T2Turbo was the best miner I ever owned.

But to run it at full speed using 2375 watts I would  get 24th

This burns 2360 watts and I do 34.4 th

So it is basically 10 th for free.

No if I run the innosilicon at balanced I do 19.5th for 1750 watts

This is 15th more for 600 watts.

Really way better then the t2turbo

If you buy three s9js you do 43th for 4450 watts

So for 9.5 th you use 2100 watts.

Cost less say 1500 vs 1800 but 2100 extra watts will eat up that 300 in savings unless you have dirt cheap power.

And we are now in a new world under 70 watts a th.

With multiple companies looking to sell better gear like this I am excited for mining come 2019.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7N4YphoaCI

sry for stalking you :D

Its fine.  I have to post a new video  I managed to make sound okay  with this material


https://www.homedepot.com/p/UltraTouch-48-in-x-6-ft-Radiant-Barrier-30000-11406/100656748


34th and not  really too loud using it.

If they  have a quiet firmware dropping to 30th and letting fans  drop to 3000 vs 5000  it would be really good.

I will do a sound video showing the sound proofing.

I guess this is your new video?

https://youtu.be/KsdRuglODsk

It is not that  it is this one

https://youtu.be/RuPXBR4Zi_U

So I got gear to be pretty quiet 45db to 48db while I sit in the basement den.

Later in the week I will fire up the T2turbo.

I should get 19.5 + 34.5 = 54th  for 2 units using only 4100 watts

you would need 4 s-9's using 5600 watts.

but 3500 vs 2000 for the gear.

If I had 4 of these at the solar array  I would do 136th at  9400 watts that is around 69 watts a th

It may do 138 th at 9400 or 68 watts a th

Status update:
My M10 unit just arrived.  I will start making the review and post it in the hardware subforum as soon as possible. :)

http://i68.tinypic.com/2j0xuko.jpg (http://i68.tinypic.com/2j0xuko.jpg)

Awe, snappity, snap!

Looks like specs are similar to the T2Turbo+32T.

I hope they give us a lower power firmware

Just a bit so gear runs a little cooler and quieter

Hi guys, my review is now online :) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5033998

"This miner won't work in a 110-120 VAC mains voltage system."
Damn, us mortals in the west only have access to 120, unless you are my dryer or any other appliance, those get whatever they want
I'm looking for a decent miner to give me heat during the winter, but where i only have 120 outlets

It's pretty cheap to put in a singe 240V circuit near the panel. You can use some conduit to protect the cable and surface mount it all. That way you could run this miner.

Just a thought because using the miner as a heater isn't really about efficiency of the equipment. You need all the heat it can produce and you would be paying for it in some other way, so the coins are almost pure profit.  You only need to earn enough to cover the cost of the equipment, and in your case the only limitation is running on 110. That being said you could look into older miners and figure out the best case for your situation.

When i say as a heater I don't mean it literally. I have central heating but there are obviously some cooler spots. use space heaters to supplement heat, but if i can do that while mining, why not :)
I might have 220v outlet not too far from where i want it, but not sure how far from the outlet it would be safe to run it (with extensions)

I bought the pangolin miner m10 recently and I also am a new miner in the crypto community. Had a little challenge setting it up due to being really new at this but I got it going and was able to start mining on nicehash. I am getting 32-33/TH with a pretty decent estimated payout per month. I have the miner running in the garage with it cracked so the miner can suck in nothing but cold air since I live in the state of Idaho. It’s running ice cold and fairly quiet to other miners I have seen and heard before. Miner cost $850 and came in about a week and a day after ordering and payment confirmed. I had to install a 250v outlet and also order a USA model 250v power cord as it came with a European model cord. Packaging was not damaged and it was packed rather well. Just wanted to give my two cents on the miner as I am excited everyday to see the progress of it and also come up with new ways to be able to cool it once summer comes around. I also am gpu mining on nicehash as well for RVN. So in a month I have gone from not mining at all to ASIC and GPU mining at the same time. If anyone had any questions about the miner please let me know and I would be happy to answer anything I can.


It’s actually pretty easy to install the required outlet to mine. I did mine in about 15 min and it was up and running about 5 min after that. Buy a double pole 20 amp breaker since the miner power is 25amp max. Then buy a small roll of 12/2 wire and the 250v single outlet for about $4 bucks with the horizontal metal prong. Buy a small single outlet box for surface mount and a black grommet to protect the wire. You can run the wire right outside your panel if you want so you don’t have to run it through walls. Hook the ground up to the ground bar and connect the neutral white wire and black wire directly to the double pole breaker and then to the two gold screws on thr outlet. Put a cover over the outlet and BAM!! You are ready to mine with 250v outlet. Easy peezy and you would be up and going in no time.

Glad you're happy with the miner. I've been running 2 of them for about a month and a half, couldn't be happier. Considering grabbing a couple more before the end of the month.

Also just in case for installs in the future you may want to install 30 amp circuits and grab a PDU in case you grab a second miner. Then there's no need to upgrade the circuit.

Good luck with the mining.

---

Just a side note on forum rules, you should merge your two posts into one, or it's considered multiposting.

Edit: I did grab another one and it appears there has been a price drop - Listed at 785 USD.

How would I merge posts if you don’t mind me asking? And yes I am happy with my miner for sure. And the only reason I didn’t do a 30 amp breaker is because the power supply says 25 amp max and if for some reason it goes above the max, the breaker wouldn’t trip and could cause damage to the unit. Otherwise I would have done a 30 amp circuit. That’s my job throughout the week is electrical work anyway. Should I decide to add another miner which when I purchased mine it was listed as $850usd, I will add the 30 amp circuit and dual recep since I just did a single 250v outlet for this one. I’m happy with the returns on the miner and will probably add another in a month or two being that another more efficient model doesn’t arrive which I think bitmain is currently working on. Only thing is it is expected to be around $2000 usd for the miner but supposedly way more efficient. We will see. Pangolin was really quick at getting me the miner so I’m happy with their service this far. I did look at a PDU though, what’s the best place to grab one? Amazon? I haven’t worked with one of those yet, so I’m guessing that’s why you need a 30 amp circuit to be able to run that thing? One miner pulls about 9.3 amps so unless the PDU makes it so you don’t need to upgrade the circuit, it would pop after adding more than three to the PDU.

If USA used ones on eBay give me a minute to find a link for you.

this pdu  is golden runs 2  m10's

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-228481-002-EO4501-Modular-PDU-Power-Distribution-Control-Unit/183697616763?

use this cable

https://www.amazon.com/Iron-Box-IBX-4924-06-Power-Black/dp/B004XM6FGY/ref=sr_1_7?

the pdu is made for a l30r receptacle   it has 4 receptacles  all fused  separately .

there is a glut of these on ebay.

as low as 30 each if you are patient.  this one  below is 29.90!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/252635-001-HP-24A-200-240-Modular-PDU-Control-Unit-228481-002-Pulled/323472256173?

Yeah your first install made perfect sense, I just meant if/when you expand to look into the 30 amp circuit and PDU option. This way you can save on the costs of additional receptacles and order uniform power cables. I grabbed a couple when I first began thinking of maxing out my extra power. They've both been full for about a year now, and all I've had to do is change out the miners.  The nice thing is you can just keep adding the miners until you've maxed them out, most "30A" PDU's are load rated to 24 Amps to not exceed the 80% continuous load.


Yeah that's the idea behind the PDU, you use 1 receptacle and it then adds it's own protection between the circuits and your machines. You do need to pay attention to how the load is distributed between the outlets on the PDU. Pretty sure Phil pointed you to some solid units, he's who I checked with before my purchases. In full power mode you would actually only be able to run 2 of the M10's but could run more in efficiency mode, for when things heat up a little.


They actually already have a more efficient model. Check here. Current List of Competitive Hardware - March 2019 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5045732.0).


Looks like the Mods took care of it for you. Here is a topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4667594.0) I created a while back to get the hang of inserting quotes and formatting posts. Feel free to drop any further questions there so we don't go off-topic here.

If you look at my solar array thread I have more then 15 of those eBay bargain pdus

They will do 2 m10s at full power or 3 m10s maybe 4 m10s at low power.

My m10s on low power run about 1265 watts so four on one pdu  is borderline but three is easy peasy

We are doing about 63kwatts in our build.

I know we have voltage sag.  238 volts has dropped to 227-229 volts

So a 24 amp x 238 = 5712 watts which means it can do two say 4600 watts

Or 4 say 5100 watts.  But we sagged to 227 volts

Which is

24 x 227 = 5448  in theory out mine will allow us to do 4 units of m10 on the pdu.

All fused less hard wiring to do.

My guess is we can do 4 if outside temps are under 50 f

And we can do 3 if outside temps are over 70 f

Oh wow thanks so much you guys I really do appreciate all of the information and willingness to help me out. I know it’s not about the miner but I just wanted to say thank you to the both of you for taking the time to help a new guy out. You guys have a good night!!!

Looks like a price drop from Pangolin to $785. No debate on de minimis.

and March is a $ 15 coupon  drops to 770 plus shipping.

pretty much the best item around.

they handled my cracked/damaged  1 wire to 3 slot adapter issue pretty fast.

So 7 units  running from Sept to March with very little down time.

These m10s are pretty nice gear.  The heat sinking on the hash boards is very nice as compared to an s9

When I ran the one board on low  they were actually quiet .

I wonder if they will do a m17 or an m20  to  compete against bitmain's s17.

Yea we always run the coupon unless we get a bulk order. Looks like the pricing hit yesterday/last night.

Maybe we'll see a more efficient m10s.

well the s17  may do 40 watts a th on low and 50 watts a th on high.

about 24th 960 watts low 40 watts a th

about 33th 1600 watts high 38 watt ath

so if a newer m10 comes out say an m17

it may do  

30 th 1200 watts low say  40 watts a  th
46 th 2300 watts high say 50 watts a th

if they do this and sell it for 1300 it would force the s17 to sell at 1000 both would get taxed so that is a push and the s17 would be a tiny bit more efficient.

this  next square off of   gear will be very interesting to see.

But whatsminer needs to get this done asap.

Wow that’s cool that they dropped the price a bit. Want to grab a second one for more mining. And I watched a couple of your videos on YouTube from your mining operation and have to say I am super impressed. You also seem to really know your stuff about this whole mining bit. Any word on when these next round of miners hits the market? Thank you!!

If and when they release them based on the M3 and the m10  they send me a demo I put it on you tube.  they send HagssFin a demo he writes a  detailed review and they release to the public about thirty days later.

I do not have a new unit for review and neither does hagssFin.

I ordered 1 m10 today and will delay next order until it arrives.

My advice when ordering is always consider

2 factors is gear in hand with fast shipping the m10 is which is good.
what will the new gear do improvement wise.

so  waiting for new is more of an option if you are looking for 1 unit.

if you want more then 1 unit.  I suggest split your risk get and m10 now and put aside coin for the m17 or what ever they call it.
I went that method. My 8th m10 is coming in a week or so and I will wait to order again later.

I know I will want 5 more units after this m10 maybe 10 to 20 if our next place is built this year.
If we do not build another array I will want 5 more pieces of gear. So for me to order 1 and wait for more is easy enough.

Worst risk is coins shoot up in price and no gear to be found. I can live with that risk.

Just ordered my first M10-31T from Pangolin with the $51 coupon. Will get to see how it compares to the T15's I have in terms of noise and stability. Given the glowing reviews from other members I am expecting good things! Will likely remove 3 821's from the rack to make room power-wise.

now they're are basically no longer in stock. 20th april lead time.

That is a long wait for gear.

It may be more inline with April 10 - 20. I checked the whatsminer and that's how they've listed it.

Not to bad considering they just went out of stock. What will be interesting is how long this incoming batch is available.

Maybe it shows April 10.
I hope my order is March 15 as it said a 7 day wait when I placed the order.

Wow they went out of stock? Well I guess I can wait a bit since they did just drop the price and also have one of those $51 off coupons. But still am very happy with the one I was able to grab!!

Looks like I got in just at the end of the "ship out in 7 days" batch!

Yeah I think you were right after me

^^ Ditto. I'm order #13343
Any emails from Pango yet on your orders?

The last M10 I got 2 weeks ago arrived with zero emails from Pangolin or DHL. The kicker -- looking in my Pango account that order is still tagged as 'Processing". Go fig.

So far it's looking like this order will be the same as I ordered on Monday and yet no emails of any kind from Pango...

It must be something to do with my previous DHL orders, as I received a text Monday afternoon when my package was received, nothing updated from Pango. My guess is whoever enters the tracking info in is either swamped or just forgets.

I should have mine Thursday, I'll be at work so I'll have the wife on high alert. Bonus it isn't -30C so the Miner should be fine.

Now for my second miner, it says ship out before April 20th. Bummer but I’m still looking forward to receiving it. Hopefully sooner than later.

Just have to let warm up, if you like have them open the box and let ambient in from inside the house since the Styrofoam will insulate it from warmth.  


April is pretty far off and this newest batch is 31T version.

I'm #13345 haha. Still processing for me.

Hmm.... I'm 13344. What are the chances we were all reading this thread. I've got an M10S coming too, though on a different order.

Yes it is pretty far off for sure, but I have to say that I’m super happy with the one I got a couple weeks ago. It’s a great miner. Looking forward to expanding as much as possible.

Got my text from DHL even though this is my first international (I think) shipment by them. Pango must be putting our phone numbers with the orders. Estimate is Monday for me!

Edit: Pango just updated my order status with tracking info as well.

My order number was 13441

I got my info gear is due on monday

This will be number 8 ;D

And once again - just as with miner #4, no emails yet from Pango or DHL. Based on times for the others around my order got a feeling that the miner will just show up on Monday... Pango had no problems sending a bunch of emails for the 1st 3 miners I got so wtf?

do a ticket they will answer it in a day or so

it is 2 am on fri  in china send a ticket now and they will answer in say 12 hours.

they have been responsive to me other then on the weekend and they are closed on the weekend  so I do not hold that against them ;D

On miner #4 I did do a ticket and they promptly replied was that order had been received and was processing. No emails followed. Several days later the miner showed up at work. Um, and now over weeks later for whatever reason that order is still tagged as 'processing' so Pango has not even updated their end to show it shipped and was received.

Not going to submit a ticket for this order (yet) as I have no doubts the same will happen with this one.

Weird ,but the gear has been very good.

The repaired one works fine.

Waiting for number 8  on Monday the 18th ;D

Out of stock now. Hope everyone who wanted last batch ordered.

Anyone know how to set fan speed manually? Mine keeps cycling between 5,800 and 7,500 RPM within a minute or so and the change in frequency is driving me a little crazy. I'd like to set it to, say, a constant 6,800 or something less variable.

thanks

go to telegram and try to contact yang jyan  he is support from pangolin he helped me troubleshoot  my bad 1 wire to 3 slot bridge.

he gave me multiple files to download


yeah m10 is out of stock

https://pangolinminer.com/product/whatsminer-m10-instock-31t/

all of bitmain is out of stock.

well s11 t15 s15

I think only the crazy expensive innosilicon t3 is available.

I wonder if  the s17 will drop and pangolin / whatsminer will drop the m17 or m20 or m whatever.

very early April.

Well, they just listed the M20 48 TH/s at 2300w

price is only 1450.

Pretty impressive if they can deliver. Too bad it's pre-order with no release date listed.

Cool, so the M20 is now finally unveiled in the public :)

I have been in talks with Pangolin and I might be able to have a demo and write a review for the M20.

I look forward to seeing that.

At that price I am a buyer if they check out and the release date isn't too far out.

I contacted Pangolin and I may be able to get a demo for a you tube video.

Aprilish has been mentioned.

So based on the m10   it was available 30 days after Hagss  did the nice write up and I did the youtube video.

So may15?  just guessing.

I may get both models for the videos.

less hashpower more efficient
https://pangolinminer.com/product/whatsminer-m20-with-psu-48t/

more hashpower  less efficient
https://pangolinminer.com/product/whatsminer-m20-with-psu-engineering-unit-58th-s-shipout-before-may-15/

Their support on telegram is very good.

Pretty cool they’re only moving up to 12nm. Now I just kinda wish i’d held off on my order!

well  maybe not.   if usa based these will be taxed at 27.6%

If you have to choose, i would go for the 48t. Having both would be interesting. Do you plan to disassemble and take pictures of everything, even the insides or the PSU, controller etc? Those are the most valuable reviews in my opinion, and of course the usual noise and power consumption tests :)

They did offer both for the youtube videos.  I can pay for the two.  And since we will be needing at least 20 units  I don't mind doing a teardown.

Ask them about them about the M20S now that we know about it via whatsminer.

As expected my 5th M10-31 arrived on Monday and as was the case with my previous one, zero notifications from either Pangolin or DHL regarding the order status and shipping information. Checking my Pangolin account both the previous order and this one are still tagged as 'Processing' even though I have received them.

Anyone else not getting emails from Pango about their orders and seeing that their the order status is not being updated?

So bad news, after I set up my M10 and let it run for 45 minutes last night I came back in this morning and the breaker on its PDU was tripped. I swapped it to a different PDU and upon plugging it in, there was a very loud pop with sparks and a small amount of smoke coming out of the front of the PSU.

I've had a 0% failure rate over the years, so I guess this is probability biting me in the ass. Will update with next steps.

Sorry to hear that, that sucks :/
Loud pop --> maybe a capacitor failure?

Same as you, everything else is normal. It all shipped and arrived on the dates expected based on my order date. What I have been getting is a text from DHL that I have an order incoming, the day it ships, and one to pay tax before clearing customs. I would have assumed most of this was automated and should be pretty easy. They did however respond to an email about the M20.


Sorry to hear that. Hopefully they can move as quickly to help you as they did with Phil's issue, I'm guessing you've created a support ticket with them. Might take a late night on your part to catch them during business hours. Do you have any oter gear around to check the PDU's and see if they are ok? Just curious was the "pop" any of the breakers going again?

I have created a support ticket and will update going forward with how Pango resolves this issue.

From what I recall, the pop originated from the PSU and was loud enough to make me jump back. The PDU's are still being used right now without issue.

Edit: After giving it about 4 hours now, I just plugged it back in and everything is working... Very suspicious and will be sitting within view of this guy for the rest of the day with my fire extinguisher close by. Will still go through the support process with Pango to see what they have to say about what may have happened.

are you usa based?

I am in Howell NJ

I ordered these parts as a just in case.

https://pangolinminer.com/product/power-supply-unit-for-m10d1/   I have 1

https://pangolinminer.com/product/miner-control-board-m10-m10s-d1/ I have 1

https://pangolinminer.com/product/miner-fan-set-m10/ I have this which is 1 pair of fans

they should send you a psu fast try asking on telegram all the links above have a telegram link.

I am in Fairfax County, VA. I sent a message to the pango official group telegram as well as Yang JYan.

Hopefully it was just a small solder whisker or metal chip that shorted & blew. After Pango replies I would want to power down and open the PSU to look for the arc marks left. Most likely would be by the power cord inlet.

I can only hope! Hopefully that what they want me to do as part of troubleshooting.

Unfortunately, I still cannot get this M10 to hash at 31TH/s. Last night I was seeing 31.1TH/s, now its hovering at 28.8TH/s.

Freq:
451-505-442

105 eff. chips per chain.

Try a CGMiner restart. After waiting for a 1/2 hour between restarts my sorta gimpy #4 miner usually 2x restarts, sometimes 3 to get up to full speed. For me SM0 is the problem child in Normal mode, Low-power mode is a no-go as SM0 and SM1 fail on the final reboot after tuning is done..

Oh the telegram people should show in 4 hours to help about psu.

yeah this one on monday  I got is good in fact it is the coolest running one I have ever owned

https://i.imgur.com/dh3aQFx.png (https://i.imgur.com/dh3aQFx.png)

The one I ordered arrived at my hosting facility with dead fans and 1 bad board. Grrrrrr.....

Quick update: Telegram support recommended trying downgrading to January FW to see if that would fix the low hashrate problem that appeared after the PSU problem. As my M10 is not run at home I had to wait to come in this morning to give the downgrade a try and, unfortunately, it has not helped. No change in hashrate, still only ~28.5 TH/s.

Will get back in contact with support over telegram tonight to see about next steps.

My stats are 8 m10s 7 were good and have mined with no issues .

1 needed a 1 wire to 3 slot bridge replaced.

We've had zero warranty/returns even with the m10s.

Where is this FW available?

It was provided directly from Pangolin support.

Update on my M10:

Unfortunately, it would appear I am at an impasse with Pangolin support after hours of communication on telegram. They are denying anything is wrong with the PSU on my M10 (despite not asking me to send them pics or remove it) and are now claiming two things:

1.) The input voltage of 208V is low and that 220V is ideal.

2.) The hash rate is within normal variance as relayed by their engineers of +/- 5%, despite being 8.1% off of spec at 28.5TH/s.

At a loss of where to go from here.

I have pm'd you

here are my m10 numbers

My oldest m10  drops a board on and off it is out of warranty

m10one16 is the oldest one

mten7 is the one  I needed a repair part

they all are a little better then yours  but I have 227 volts input

my newest is in the garage it gets 239 volts and is doing 31,387  with really good temps of 66-67-72

https://i.imgur.com/WINvjja.png (https://i.imgur.com/WINvjja.png)

So Phil is going out on a limb and is sending me his replacement PSU to determine whether or not my PSU is damaged. This is a very generous gesture from him and ill do whatever is necessary to make sure he is made whole when this is settled.

I'm quite convinced its the PSU given the events that precipitated the reduction of hash rate, namely the pop, flash of sparks, and puff of smoke from the PSU. Combined with the stated specs for the PSU (below), I'm struggling to believe that the input voltage difference between 208V and 220V is what is hamstring the hash rate. I will add that the autotune function is not raising the avg board freq to what it was prior the PSU incident. Current board freq: 445-499-434 resulting in 28.5TH/s. I can only hope the boards were not damaged.

Model:
P10-12.5-2250-V1
Input:
176-264VAC 50/60Hz 25A Max
Output:
12.5V 180A
12V 10A

The only thing that crosses my mind is that a roach or bug crawling inside short-circuited something, but now that it popped and dried the unit would go back to work. Normally when something pops and trips a breaker or such i won't even try powering it again, at least without taking a look inside...

What a curious gamble you made by powering it again, wanted to see if flames would come out or something?

I agree. This might be anecdotal, but I'm running my M10 on 208 volts and it's been consistently hashing at the expected rate since I installed it a week ago.

Very nice of Phil to help you out. I hope it works.

well we get to do a good test.

if the psu I sent him  gives him 29.5 to 31th  it is not the 208 volts.

The solid buss bars neg and pos   are closely spaced so I think a  bug or a spec of something made the pop

and was fried. it may have damaged the 1 wire to 3 slot bridge as that is really close to the  buss bars.

this part

https://pangolinminer.com/product/miner-adapter-board-m10-m10s-d1/  

could be the issue  that is the part I had go bad on me I never did better then 30th and the boards dropped out.   when replaced I now do 30.6th

sarcheer lives close to me .

VA and NJ are same shipping zone for usps regional flat rate box b  so it was easy to ship the spare to him.

Us miners have to stick together  ;D

When I remove the PSU to swap it for the replacement one Phil is sending me, I'll make sure to dismantle further than that and provide pics of everything I can.

I've got one board that's only running at 283 Freq, the others are at 550 or so. Means that effectively its almost in spec.

yeah of my eight units some boards are lower then others.

Once warrantees are done I will cherry pick and match the boards.

of my eight units one board of 24 is a bit flakey so 23/24 good boards and one that drops in and out.

@ sarcheer psu should arrive today

Well great news! There can be no doubt, the PSU was damaged and was limiting the freq achievable by the boards. Having swapped the PSU with the replacement Philipma1957 sent me, the freq are now:
491-524-478

Previously, it was the rarest of tunes that allowed for the middle board to scratch 500, with the others hovering in the 440 range. Hashrate is now 31.1TH/s.

Pics will be added later on today for those with more EE experience to dissect to see if there is any visible damage. I will say that the black sheeting within separating the top of the PSU from the bottom appeared to have been separated from the force of the pop, with only a tiny section of the adhesive holding it closed. The replacement from Phil, even from the exterior, was clearly closed.

Thank you so much Phil, your willingness to experiment for this community is a resource we all benefit from greatly.

Edit for Photos:

https://i.imgur.com/8LIZ5Ytm.jpg (https://imgur.com/8LIZ5Yt) https://i.imgur.com/TXT4u9km.jpg (https://imgur.com/TXT4u9k) https://i.imgur.com/cnJFjucm.jpg (https://imgur.com/cnJFjuc) https://i.imgur.com/ytdRXn6m.jpg (https://imgur.com/ytdRXn6) https://i.imgur.com/qXacXwOm.jpg (https://imgur.com/qXacXwO)

https://i.imgur.com/ysU90OKm.jpg (https://imgur.com/ysU90OK) https://i.imgur.com/yHUy7pjm.jpg (https://imgur.com/yHUy7pj) https://i.imgur.com/mddL3jCm.jpg (https://imgur.com/mddL3jC) https://i.imgur.com/ZOhNhp4m.jpg (https://imgur.com/ZOhNhp4) https://i.imgur.com/yJGOfi9m.jpg (https://imgur.com/yJGOfi9)

Photos TIA
Photos
screen shots TIA
screen shots

Kudos to the post office $8.05  to ship psu NJ to VA In under 48 hours.

It is nice that it works better.

@ Pangolin  Please fix this for sarcheer   ;D

I am ordering the 72th to test for community so please continue to be helpful to us.

Those last few pics show the area that shorted as evidenced by the blast marks and residue left behind. Whatever caused the short seems to have been easily vaporized since the PSU still mostly worked nonetheless but at reduced power output.

If one pours through the API report as the miners start up you will see that there is massive amounts of testing going on and the results are there in the log. I do believe that PSU voltage is one of the things that is reported for each series of tests so maybe problems with it could show up there?

Aside from that: Damn they like using that white glue. Hopefully it is a hard epoxy to not hold too much heat vs a rubbery glue...

I hope they fix this now.

I really what to use them as they have been pretty good so far.

I am looking to get at least 10 new m20's if the demo works well,

maybe 20 new ones down the road.

Having a second company with good gear at a decent price helps. 

At the moment they seem to compete with bitmain gear.

I can work direct with pangolin. use btc and bank transfer.
I can work with pangolin and minefarmbuy to order with PayPal.

I can not seem to order with PayPal and offordscott.

I am waiting for a reply on the m20 72th from pangolin.
I hope helping out with this psu has not ruffled feathers.

Yeah I hope you're right. I got lost interest in hobby level mining in mid-2017 because I was fed up with Bitmain. Figured I'd just let my S9's and L3+ just run into the sunset, slowly dying one hash board at a time.

But I'm really impressed with MicroBT. I'm glad I managed to grab an M10, even if I was late to the party (should have been paying more attention and pulled the trigger earlier).

Hopefully Pangolin realizes the value proposition of being a community vetted, trusted, attractive alternative to Bitmain.

This is a cut and dried warranty problem. All you did was prove that sarcheer's problem was the PSU.

Replacing the PSU (which is the right thing to do) seems like an inexpensive way for them to cement their trust with this community. It's a no-brainer really.

It is tough for me  I am no longer a garage 2x 30 amp 240 volt miner.

between my garage and the two solar arrays  I have access to 26x   30 amp x 240 volts.

about 134 kwatts  not all solar but if I pushed and did  100 kwatts mostly solar subsidized

it is  30 m20 king size units  that is 72 x 30 = 2.16ph

we are pushing 600th now with lessor gear.  We hope to move the lessor gear to a new site and fill every old site with

m20 +

I want to continue with whatsminer gear.  
As it is good in price and efficiency.
It has also been decent in RMA service.  

buying 33 units of m20+  will be over 66k plus trump tax of 18,216  this is a hard move for us to do.
that fucking tax is a bitch.
and now a rma worry makes thing worse.

One of the reasons I did the psu was to try to see how pangolin really is about rma of gear.

So I now will wait to find out what happens.

So here is an update on trying to get the PSU from my M10 replaced under warranty:

Pango is saying I need to ship them back the damaged PSU at my own expense (don't like it, but no big deal and standard for the industry), but are also asking that I pay the shipping for them to send the new PSU to me.

Costs are ~$75-80 to ship the PSU to them in China and the estimated shipping from Pango is $45. All together ~$120, or the cost of a brand new one without shipping.

After over 2 weeks of troubleshooting that I eventually solved with the help of Phil and not Pango support, I now to have to pay over a month's profit with this machine to get a replacement part under warranty.

If Phil wasn't kind enough to sell me the PSU we used to definitively prove the damage to the factory PSU, I would have the choice of mining at reduced hashrate and hoping the PSU did not fail completely down the road or adding well over a month to the break-even date for this purchase.

Not happy with the support I've received from Pangolinminer.

It is difficult to turn a profit in mining and asking the return of the item makes the rma too costly. You would lose shipping of old gear shipping of new gear and no mining for days while gear cross shipped.

They should have offered to ship the rma first and once you got it you could send them the old psu. You would not lose mining time that way.

I know they have procedures to prevent fraud etc. but in your case you had a new replacement (mine) to show the 31th vs the 28th.  The could have made an exception and said hold the old psu.

Sorry to hear that is disappointing to say the least. I'm amazed they are expecting you to cover shipping both ways for the PSU. I get the one way for your damaged unit, with them covering the shipping of a replacement.
I know I had to make that call one time, and I just left it at a reduced hashrate, as it was an expense I never would have recovered. This was only a hashboard from different gear, so I wasn't worried about an overall failure down the road.

I wonder if the response would have been different if the PSU had failed completely, and not just partially with your own additional troubleshooting. I suggest you make a post in the Pangolin Service Discussion (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5122885.msg50245640#msg50245640) thread documenting this.

Yea, kind of arduous I might just buy a back up anyway and have that to while you ship to and fro. Let me know if you want us to run some shipping numbers for you.

I will most likely order one m10 psu again as I have 8 M10's.

Still waiting for info on the m20 demo's.

I will need to telegram them today  but it is 10:50 pm fri in china

So most likely I wont get a reply  until  10pm New York time  Sunday night which will be 10 am China time.

Well it looks like I lost a hash board this morning. I got warnings from the pool, then looked and SM0 was registering 0 frequency.

This event is visible from the mining status page:


I've rebooted it and it seems to be in a mode where CGMiner keeps restarting. It the elapsed time never goes above 1 second.

So now SM0 shows zero effective chips while SM1 and SM2 show 105 chips. But none of the boards are hashing.

Next I power cycled it via PDU (I'm not onsite). It's still in the same state. Namely SM0 seems dead and all mining has stopped.

Any ideas what to do next?

I ended up needing this part  https://pangolinminer.com/product/miner-adapter-board-m10-m10s-d1/

it was overtightened at the factory and caused the same symptoms that you are having.

I posted on it alot in this thread or the other m10 thread.

start here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5033998.msg49810517#msg49810517

photos and info on the repair are there.

If you go the route of getting that part let us know if it works.

Thanks Phil. I'll take a look.

In the meantime the M10 has at least brought up the remaining two boards, so it's not completely dead in the water. I guess that's something.

---

Dumb question: what is the order of the board layout?

My bad board is SM0. When looking at the miner from the front, is that the leftmost or rightmost board?

I assume it's not in the middle ;-)

@edonkey
If you follow the data cable from the hash board to the control board, is there any marking that would help figure it out?

Maybe. But I won't have physical access to the miner till later today.

Just trying to plan out the repair effort.

L     M       R

SM0 SM1 SM2

So if the 1 to 3 bridge is bad and all pcbs are good

switch L to M

it will still say

SM0 is dead  if the boards are good

if the original  SM0 board is dead  

it will say SM1 is dead

i did this testing  and found the problem followed the slots.
also the 3 slot bridge died after time.

this makes sense since i suspect the over tighten bridge has a tiny crack in the traces which vibration will only make worse.

Thanks Phil. That's very helpful info.

Looks like I have the same problem as you.

I swapped the SM0 and SM1 hash boards. While I was in there I added a couple of thin nylon washers under the bridge on the chance that it might prevent a short.

When I brought the miner up, the problem stayed with the SM0 slot.

Since the problem is following the slot, not the hash board, I think I have a bad bridge.

Seems like this is a common problem. They should consider reworking their data connection design. What was wrong with cables, after all?

Other than this bridge problem, the build quality seems really nice. I was impressed, especially with those beefy power bus connections.

Looks like I need to ask pangolinminer.com support for a replacement bridge. Better than a hash board, I guess.

ask them for 2 I will pay for one.  Saves on shipping. You are USA based?

Ok, I will. Maybe I'll get an extra one too.

Yes, I'm in the US. Just on the opposite coast.

Yeah it is a 10 dollar item. no need to order one at a time. since shipping for 2 or 3 is most likely the same.

When I got the replacement I was not quite sure it was the problem  after I fixed it I realized having a few extra is a good idea.

There is a US based Whatsminer distributer that would likely be a better choice over Pango for US residents in terms of warranty issues.

This was a tough call for me to use.  It seemed I could not legally avoid trump tax using us based seller his prices were a bit higher then the 799 usd needed to legally avoid the issue.

However  when the M20 comes out this may not be an issue since the 72th version is priced high  at both sites  it is more then 1900  so in both cases trump tax looks like an issue.

So I may try both sellers for the M20.

Who is the US distributor? .net?

I think so I will check with Offordscott

yes I just checked on facebook

Yes

Exactly what happened with the PSU on my Bitfily B1+. Decided to buy a new PSU from them and keep the old one old parts.

So odd question.  Has anyone noticed a hashrate bump since warmer temps?  I have not readjusted my setup for summer yet and the temps in location has risen about 10 degrees (It's about 80 degrees F right now).  My m10 miner has been averaging 35-37th for past 3 days now.  Do.. these things mine better in warmer environments? lol

Well here's to hoping, I should have mine in the garage soon.  Summer does get warm and i only cool using ambient outside air, so at it's worst 35 celsius for a few days but high 20's for a good 6 weeks.

I can't say i watched it to closely, but i don't recall a jump in hashrate like that. I had a few times the basement was easily mid to high 20's .

Looks like you got the hardware lottery. Ill definitely keep an eye on mine especially the one that has only been in the cold garage.

The funny thing is this is the 31th model they were selling for like $700 some dollars.  I have a couple and all are averaging around 35th since it got warm out.  Very odd lol

So I finally got around to swapping out the data bridge card. It took a while to get the replacements because I made the mistake of trying to communicate with them via their support system.

In case it wasn't clear, the only way you can get support is via Telegram. I should have paid attention to Phil's post about that, but I didn't have Telegram and didn't want to install it. Learn from my mistake and just use Telegram.

Anyway, I swapped out multiple new bridge data cards because they sent me several. But none of them made a difference.

But since I originally swapped hash boards and the problem stayed with the slot, not the hash board, I'm still convinced this is a data problem.

Perhaps my ribbon cable is bad? It could also be the controller, I suppose. But replacing the cable would be the first thing that I try.

Anyone know a source for replacement cable? I don't have one in my junk pile. Too bad those extra S9 data cables I have aren't 2 x 11.

Also, Phil you were asking me to snag you an extra data bridge card. I've got extras so I can do that, but it might be better to figure out where the fault really is before I send you a card that isn't tested.

well that sucks.  but  lets think it over.

controller

V
V  cable
V

slot 0
slot 1
slot 2

so  swapping the bridge did nothing.

this means

A) all bridges are good and some other thing is bad.

B) all bridges are bad and everything else is good.

What can we do on my end?  I have 8 working m10's with 1 bad board . Board is tested and does not work on any  of the 8 units.

but all 8 units can run all 3 boards.  as I have done lots of swapping.

If you send me 2 bridges and I swap them in and they work we then know the bridges are good.

Still leaves cable and or controller.

I have an un programmed controller which means if i send it to you  you need to go to telegram and have yang help you program it.

How about this send me 2 bridges I will drive up to clifton and test them.  I they work I will send one back and hold one as a spare.
I can also send you the unprogrammed controller yang will help you program it.

If it works  we know the old controller is bad.

If it does not work  we are stuck on cable or replacement controller.

maybe I can find an 11 x 2 pin cable    as it is easier to first test it.

I never did try this route and honestly just forgot about it as my problem isn't so bad but is noticeable on LPM. I'll have to give this a go and see if I can get my underperformer up to snuff. Thanks for sharing, sorry I got no info for you on what you are looking for.

Thanks so much for your offer to help Phil. But before you go to a lot of trouble, maybe I should do one more swap test.

If you remember what I did was swap 0 and 1. So as you look at the the miner from the front (i.e. the air intake side), I went from this:

S0  S1  S2
H0  H1  H2

To this:

S0  S1  S2
H1  H0  H2

This was based on the assumption that the slots are numbered from left to right. If I had any brains at the time, I would have rotated them entirely, moving every hash board like so:

S0  S1  S2
H2  H0  H1

This way all of the boards would have moved a slot and I wouldn't have to know which one is actually S0. If after that S0 is still bad, then clearly it's the data bridge, cable or (yikes) the controller.

Maybe I should still do this just to be on the safe side. At this stage I just have to swap the two outer hash boards to achieve the same effect as rotating.

Since the miner as running at a data center, I won't be able to try this until early this coming week.

In the meantime at least I'm running on two hash boards, which is better than nothing.

this is a dual row 20 pin cable

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FZWBP78/

pitch is 2.54 mm I think the dual row 22 pin is a tighter pitch

yeah  my bad slot was center  so swapping it left or right   works

I had a bad slot 1

It always stayed center.

when you go to check it  if it turns out to be a board let us know.

also see if you can measure pitch

11 holes x 2.54 = 27.94 mm  or just over 1 inch

this is close:

https://www.amazon.com/Sydien-2-54mm-Connector-Rainbow-Ribbon/dp/B07Q2SGFWM/

---

I swapped SM0 and SM2 (the rightmost and the leftmost) and the problem moved to SM2. So unfortunately it's a hash board problem.

I've got a repair ticket from Pangolin. I'm going to send the bad hash board to be repaired.

Any recommendations for a shipping company to China?

DHL for quickness. We can setup a label for you if you request on website.

That lucky seven m10 went dead again.

A new bridge fixed it for a month but now it has gone doa.

I suspect a completely different issue this time.

The Clifton build uses Verizon modem to a switch to a router to four switches .

The network is only 192.168.1.1-256

We have about 70 miners. On that and no attempt was made to do any sorting just Dpch .

So 4 miners went down.

192.168.1.22. A t15
192.168.1.23. A s9
192.168.1.24. A t2turbo
192.168.1.25. A m10

Since the gear is scattered from 192.168.1.4.  To 192.168.1.100. I find it very odd that the four miners that dropped out were in consecutive order.

I got 3 to fire back up but that m10. Is like fu so I dragged it back to Howell and will see if it will work at my place.

No one is one pangolin for support unit Sunday night so I will play with this unit till Sunday then contact yang on telegram.

The chances of essentially 3 different branded miners in sequential order going down at the same time are so ridiculous it has to be related to something else.  Are these 4 units plugged into the same pdu?  Maybe a power issue or something happened with that strip?

I am really liking my m10 miner. Just set up my s9s in a cooler to keep them silent and much much cooler. I’ll have to show my setup when I can figure out how to post pics on this site.

They are nice, so far not to many issues reported. I think Phil's the only one I've heard of so far that died; that's the second issue on that 1 machine. Then another with a DOA Hashboard. I have one that seems to underperform in low power mode.  Glad to hear your is working out well.

To post images you will need to use a site like imgur.com, then you can paste the link here - They have an option to have it formatted for the forum which makes it pretty simple.

I have 8 of them 7 are perfect.

The troubled one is back to working.  Still seems to have an issue with the bridge.  This where the controller cable is split and goes to the 3 boards.

I have a replacement bridge: https://pangolinminer.com/product/miner-adapter-board-m10-m10s-d1/

and I placed 3 little pieces of this tape to isolate it and help it to not vibrate

https://www.amazon.com/Scotch-Permanent-Mounting-Tape-Inches/dp/B00347A8GC/

this is working so far. Gear is in the garage  I will drive it up to clifton  when I get the m20.

Not going to lie I'm a little irritated at the troubleshooting for Whatsminer's. Yang was helpful but they seem extremely limited in what they will try and options. It seems update the FW is the first place they start and sort of where it ends - we went through 4 I believe yesterday all newer, and performed worse. After that it was a guess that it's probably a PSU. This is all based on just the board temps showing up, not any additional digging in the logs. To top it off they say my original FW version never existed - but provided me with a close date stamp, so I'll try loading it tonight.

In the end I'll probably just never run that unit in LP mode - it hits 30.8 in normal mode. It all comes down to do I want to foot the bill and downtime to send the PSU back and hope that they were correct for warranty, or pay for 1 out of pocket - which I'm not interested in doing. I may order one of those bridges to see if that was the issue as it seems to have been a weak point in assembly, it's a 10$ hit and they could probably throw it in with my M20 demo. I might try some of those FW versions on the other models once my Power meter is constructed to see if there is any advantage  - I did note that they must be coming out with a liquid cooling option as it had a place on the miner status with 2 FW versions. I'll check the file names tonight and drop the FW versions I saw.

Edit:

So from the files left here are the FW versions they have out and will try. I honestly don't know where to get them from apart from asking them in Telegram. I never really looked into it until they figured that would fix the issue. - They may show in your overview with a .1 at the end when updated.

20190404.18   20190318.12   20190114.15

So for the 3 above it was late and I was just watching it all, I believe only 2 of these showed the "status column" for liquid cooling. There was also 3 errors on startup; I can't recall if this was on all 3 versions or the same 2. Finally they all hashed at 27-28 TH/S normal mode.

20181129.12 This one they gave me for rolling back. results are similar to the original so far 30.7 TH on normal.
20181127.17 My original 2 of my miners still have this version.

Well that was fun.... Finally got around to changing pool #3 from Kano's de node to the Oregon one on the 3 M10 miners at home. Of course that meant restarting them and -- miner #2 did not want to fire up. Constantly reported 0 chips on slot-1 (they go from 0 to 2) which oddly enough is physically the board  on the left side and not the center board...

Looking into the air inlet end of the miner and going by the green LED's, the boards would fire up: middle on then off, right on then off, then both middle and right on and stay on - so far so good -- then the left board would come on for less than a second and take the other 2 down. Endlessly repeat.....

Fearing the dreaded bridge board problem I unplugged it, removed the 2 screws that hold the board in place for shipping (is a snug fit even w/o the screws) and reseated the board: Success! It lives again!

Bloody hell I hate it when a board that probably cost 50-cents to make takes down a whole machine...  >:(

---

Well it wasn't the PSU, glad I go the bridge board to go with it. I'll be a few days before I have the time to get it sorted and changed out. Few things that were different they sent me a P11 PSU not the original P10, still compatible. Also I now have 2 Power xfer warnings on the M10, they don't cause issues it's just a warning from what I can tell. Other than that same boards with cooler temps and lower hashrates, and same power draw as before. I will have to remember to ask them in telegram what those warnings mean, as far as potential issues; maybe get a list of all warnings and what to do. Nothing to interesting but I'll get a few pics up soon.

So who has an extra bridge?

This one fucking m10 is a ball buster.

I have been playing with it now and I am thinking of getting a second bridge.

Hate to order it from China a second time.

Damn that sucks Phil. I'm pretty sure the one I have is needed but I won't know until this weekend when I finally get a round to swapping it out; I'm running on fumes this week. In the meantime I believe they have missed another ship date, if so I could buy one or 2 and have them ship it with the M20s. Save you a few bucks anyways.

I grabbed five just now. So I should have enough for me. Plus some for miners here.

Shipping for five was 24 shipping for two was twenty.

So I went for five.

I now have
2 spare psu’s
1 spare controller
5 miner connectors.

Since the m10s are 1/3 of my hash I want to keep them alive as long as I can.

8 m10s.  240th
2 m20s’s 138th
1 s17pro.  53th
1 t17.       40th
1 s15.       28th
1 t15.        23th
2 a1041.    56th
1 a921.      18th
2 a721.      13th
1 t2t24.      19th
1 t3t39.       39th
22 s9.        220th
5 s7ln.         12th

Adds to 889 th it is not all online. Should be soon

Good idea grabbing a couple they are definitely the weak point on the machines so far. I'm sure you'll hear from someone down the road hoping you still have a spare kicking around I'll be able to tell this weekend if that's what my issue is. I'll be busy setting everything up to add in the M20s now that I know it's coming. I also have the Pic of the P11 PSU they sent me for replacement. I thought I had one of the P10 for comparison but I guess not.

https://i.imgur.com/XCiyiVsm.jpg?2 (https://imgur.com/XCiyiVs)

Do you know how to put in the lastest firmware?  My p11's  work better with this firmware

"Firmware Version   20190601.18.1"

Hostname   M10.HB11.H6-CB10.P11-Z6MA...........094-1

it detects that the psu is a p11

Oh nice. I'll have to give it a try I have a bunch of them on a PC at home, that might be one. If I have it I'll update it after the bridge swap out.

need help with a second m10 as both fans died unit shut down due to heat.

It seems the image is corrupted on the   controller.

And I am struggling to flash a  new imgae to the controller.  As all instructions are in Chinese.

Does anyone have any links on a how to flash with an sd card.


note I can get firmware  done.  but firmware is not the same as the image.

Phil, have you checked out MicroBT's support section? They list quite a bit of info https://www.microbt.com/server/firmware.html Although the site (for me anyway) is dog slow.

EDIT: I just realized you said all the instructions are in Chinese, is that where you got them?

Also found this on the Pango support site. The PDF is in English. https://pangolinminer.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360016797934-Whatsminer-M10-User-Guides-Solutions

yeah  I have a good image downloaded from microbt.
I have  a new un loaded controller no image on it.

https://pangolinminer.com/product/miner-control-board-m10-m10s-d1/

I can only find  chinese sd info on how to load the sd card to the control-board

I was up in clifton  nj

I cleaned  36 pieces of gear.

all 8 m10's

the scorecard on them is

6 perfect
1 with a troubled connector bridge
1 with failed fans that I replaced but the mining os is corrupted I can replace the controller with the part I gave. or I can flash the old controller

in either case  I need english on using an sd card to boot.

https://www.microbt.com/?locale=en

https://www.microbt.com/server/manual.html

Phil, did you follow my links? The PDFs are in English and I *think* have what you need.

I used your links and worked on microbt site.

I think I have enough info to do it.

Need to put aside ¾ hours to look it over and give it a shot.

Finally swapped my bridge out last night/this morning. Little guy had a nightmare and ended my session  :'(
So I buttoned it up this morning and it fired up. It did look promising but I only got to monitor it for about 20 minuted before work. Hopefully I'll gt home tonight and all 3 boards will appear warm. I'll also update to that firmware you posted earlier Phil - If it's one I have at home... forgot to check.


Cross posting this for reply  - I completely agree, I was shocked when I opened this up last night the dust bunnies were real, just at the intake side. Definitely a little more work to clean but overall one of the easier machines to work on. Apart from disconnecting the exhaust side fan, that hurt the fingertips.

good news is my controller was fine and not corrupted.

fucking connector bridge died when the fans both failed.

Sao scorecard on this gear is now

all 8 work

23 of 24 boards work.

3 of these connector bridges have died.  I suspect 4 died as the unit with 2 good board may simply have a bad connector bridge.

also 2 fans died.

so 8 units

3 bad bridges - certain and verified
2 bad fans to be fair this was the oldest unit sept 2018-certain and verified

with I have 1 dead board or 1 dead bridge or 1 bad psu on the unit running 2 boards.

while this sounds not so good. if it is a connector bridge it is cheap

since connector bridges appear to die easily I ordered 3 more. I ordered 2 sets of fans.

I advise anyone that has these to consider making an order for 2 connector bridges and 1 set of fans.  cost is 20+45+30 = 95

based on my eight units and other owners both the connector bridges and the fans seem to fail

if you know what you are doing you can get around the fans, but the connector bridges make you dead in the water.

nice to see I have the 64th back up and running.

with a lot of spare parts as I think the connector bridges will keep failing.

Jeez, with that kinda luck, I would have ordered Ten or more. (I am paranoid). But in Minnesota with my soon to be summer rates of probably close to 17c kWh. (I can't believe it is that bad, I just can't believe it). I am selling crap on eBay I likely would otherwise have died with for BTC. Hell, at these prices I'm motivated. Sigh. Attic Minning on eBay, how far I have fallen from my hardcore ASIC addiction. Miss my home miners in the basement. 'Mass quantities at one time in my basement'. Alas!

Have a buddy with a data hall at around 10 1/2c a kWh? So tempting, very tempting, but likely I'll wait. So will continue to lurk on the thread here.

@Searing if you are looking to move them out of state I got a buddy with a pretty big mine in upstate NY that would probably take a few more customers and the rate is better than what you got. But hey at least your not like Connecticut I can pay 10-12c but then pay 12cent just for the delivery charge making it 24cents. That is also a pretty good deal.

I've looked at Canada, by the time you do fees and shipping and $50 per machine setup costs, etc, etc. It just does not seem to pay. If I can't make it with my buddies data hall at 10.5c kWh, then I probably should just be hodl'ing Bitcoin and Crypto anyway.

The Whatsminer is very tempting, and about the time I decide it does make sense, they will be sold out. That is how it usually works. But I'm just not feeling it (yet?) this go around.

We have mt.gox dumping coins yet, we have Bitmain pumping up BTC difficulty with its partnership with free hydroelectric split (they provide the hardware the utility provides the excess hydroelectric that otherwise would be wasted. (China has a lot of rain this year). So it is a win/win for them, but hell BTC difficulty could be clobbered.

So, selling crap I don't need on eBay and putting it into BTC/Crypto and HODL'ing seems the most prudent now.

I do have ONE Bitmain S9i going up at 10.5c kWh. (underclocking) 11.5 TH at 950 watts is the goal and an Avalon 821 that steamtyme sent me for 'shelf-art' a few months back on the glory days of like 4-5k BTC..that can make a bit now. For postage Only. So that seems to be revived.

But getting a Whatsminer, WITH THE 25% Tariff to the USA still being in play, plus 2.6% import fee and plus shipping...well, hell...that is a road too far at this point to me.

The whatminer units are pretty, if fickle (bridge issues) I'll give you that.

But hell, I may crack like a nut with my ASIC addiction 2 weeks from now (ASIC addiction is how I roll) I'm a sucker for the whirly fan noises and blinking LED's. :)

So I will lurk here some yet, we will see.

Brad

HODLING and mining two separate things. Anyone can HODL. Also the HODL seems like the best bet right now due to everyone coming out with next gen stuff which is just going to make difficulty skyrocket.

Did you see a pangolinminers website you can buy a m20s and you can pay them to host it at like 6cent a kw/h and mine at your pool. That is something that catches my eye since I did order one shipped to me but if I could have them host it there is no tariff. But I do like the whole set up my own machines and visiting the mine. I am curious if the m20s are going to have the issues the other ones had.

The blinking LED's get me too. I use to love walking into my basement which was illuminated from green ethernet ports and blinking red leds when I closed the window like an idiot.

I did not see the hosting angle. I will look into it. The catch with hosting in MY experience is USUALLY (not in this case) the shipping of the unit. (unless they have it off-site and it applies to their hosting equipment too) or the setup costs $50 to $75 per unit, from when I looked a year or so ago. But hey, it is something.

Yeah, HODL and MINING are different. HODL the only risk is BTC goes down. Mining the risk is BTC price goes down along with the investment in the miner (less the 25% in USA taken away from gross income angle by the IRS) and the 'bet' that you can, eventually, mine more BTC than you can get out of the purchase/electric/etc from the miner.

Toss in the 25% Tariff to the USA and the 2.6% import tax and shipping. Indeed, mining is a complete non-starter with that dumb USA tariff action.

But I will look at the hosting angle you mention, I initially missed that.

Brad