Bitcoin Forum

Do you want to know where the Mt Gox money went?
Do you want to know who is responsible for the loss?
Do you want to help find the missing btc?

Given that the bitcoin block chain is a public ledger and that each and every transaction from the beginning of btc time to present is documented, I propose a CSI type forensic investigation of the block chain to account for all of the btc that went through Mt Gox from their first deposit to their last withdrawal.

Clearly this would be a massive undertaking because you are not just looking at 1 level of deposits and withdrawals, but you are looking for patterns, and anomalies on multiple levels.  Most of the transactions will be relatively easily to account for, many won't, but all btc can be accounted for.  

I think such an effort would give the btc community a major boost.







 

And what is it that you want to do when you find the BTC? Beat the private keys out of anyone that has even a satoshi of them in their wallets? Who's can say those BTC have long been used/traded for good or services? Or even if they ended up in a cold storage wallet long ago?

I think you really need to think about what your suggesting; a witch-hunt plain and simple.

I think we have our first suspect... ;)

hahahahaaa

What I'm suggesting is 100% sound

Let's examine your excuses individually:

1)  "And what is it that you want to do when you find the BTC?"
A)  return it to it's rightful owner, that's what you are supposed to do with stolen money.  Sure that's not news to you?

2) "Beat the private keys out of anyone that has even a satoshi of them in their wallets?"
A) I try not to operate like that any more

3)  "Who's can say those BTC have long been used/traded for good or services?"
A)  Oh, goodie, they were spent for "good or service", so now you have names, faces, addresses, email addresses, phone numbers, cities,  countries ... to add to all of the other electronic connections.  At that point anonymous becomes a less anonymous.

4)  "Or even if they ended up in a cold storage wallet long ago?"
A)  cold storage doesn't represent a dead end it represents a good idea of where it is, who has it and that it is still available.


Even if someone attempted to wash the dirty money it will show on the block chain. 

The whole cryptocurrency economy suffers when irresponsible behavior is rewarded with a blind eye.

it may be simpler than that; the theft can have been

a) straightforward stealing from a wallet, not tied to a customer account, in which case there should be  a normal blockchain record of the transaction
b) malleability hacks - in this case the internal records may be compared to the blockchain records. In other words, the proper accounting that was not done in real time, could be done as part of an iterative forensic analysis using internal records and blockchain. Most accounts at Gox are probably OK and it should be possible to rule these out easily.

At least the total leakage from 2011 until now could somehow be determined if Gox has archived all their transactions...and 800K is a lot, even if BTC was worth a lot less back then, the volume was also a lot less...

And also, if someone stole that many coins, he will not have an easy time converting these, if exchanges do proper AML-KYC. Mixing such a large number of coins is hard. This mixer.io (or whatever its called) some people advertise, claims to have a queue of 2400, so mixing 800 000 coins is not realistic.

But first we need some forensic analysis to prove that these coins were stolen

I HOPE THEY WERE ONLY LOST ... that would be even good for the honest BTC owners  :P

There was some irc chat long ago, where Karpeles sent around 424k BTC to a particular address as in to prove that the exchange holds enough funds.


The address was this here

424k proof transaction:
https://blockchain.info/tx/3a1b9e330d32fef1ee42f8e86420d2be978bbe0dc5862f17da9027cf9e11f8c4 424k 06/23/2011

connected to this address are following addresses

50k 1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9 first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV first input: 11/16/2011 05:59:08
40k 12HddUDLhRP2F8JjpKYeKaDxxt5wUvx5nq first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
40k 16Ls6azc76ixc9Ny7AB5ZPPq6oiEL9XwXy first input: 11/16/2011 05:38:46
30k 1MyGwFAJjVtB5rGJa32M6Yh46cGirUta1K first input: 11/16/2011 05:45:03

Unfortunately i fail to understand the blockchain.info chain of events completely, as there are some addresses which received less funds than they seemingly sent out.

you will notice that all of those addresses contain the bitcons still, AND all of those addresses have zero digits BEFORE the dot(sub the front digit of course). they are exactly 50000.whatever, 40000.whatever and so on...

if you head over to http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100 you will be able to find similar addresses with 40k, 30k, 20k, 10k etc

one example being this

Nr 24, 25, 26 in the rich list are 40k with all digits in front of the dot are zero, AS WELL as one digit after the DOT.
There is one more 40k which has ALL digits in front of the dot zero, but not the digit AFTER the dot.
This would be this one

http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/14j6jLececs66ZQ8ew6vTFNiEn2NupacWJ?charttype=balance


There is only 1 30k address which is already included in the list, showing this pattern, but there are two 20k addresses being at 45 and 46 in the rich list position, having all zeros after the "2" digit

http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/15CVfJUC1LKn1GKZx6RM5UMbFfnTd8vTT4?charttype=balance
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/13ssxUjmQqemuiBfJSBsr7gFX7UWU7uXNK?charttype=balance

at 15k we have

http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1LDWDufjU5ATbozDZY3uChb7oPAbDaiB7K?charttype=balance
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/12WFth5HabiVrcj5waHtDP1b7gXSQPuDPz?charttype=balance
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1Fd2RVn8Ha6K6qevPFgPLneJn8VNaLPGW2?charttype=balance

at 10k we have

http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1MeCzxxB8eDd17DaocFLQaQtH8seVjNM67?charttype=balance
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/1Gg9GGQWmRk1pp4vNkMqLaEiPVNdiNvz7E?charttype=balance
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/19PPeuu4jPjqtefSQ2FDgKmNJ88Z5wiuJt?charttype=balance
http://bitcoinrichlist.com/address/15jdxjFhXUsp2xuycmKnjw8yk1WsVon69c?charttype=balance
....

many more. The 10k addresses that follow this pattern are numerous going from 84-113 , meaning 30* 10k = 300k coins

194-235 5k deposits with same pattern  42*5k = 210k
 
So we would have

1x  50k
4x  40k (one of which does not follow the exact pattern as the other 3)
1x  30k
2x  20k
3x 15k
30x 10k
42x 5k

we get a total of 835k BTC.

Not all of those addresses are owned by MtGox for sure, in fact, maybe none of those are owned by Gox. It's highly speculative if those BTC are part of the lost 750k especially since i cannot understand the blockchain chain of events well enough to explain certain transactions from addresses that seem to have less in than they transact out.

I was expecting someone to bring up 'mixing' even with that the transactions can be tracked everything electronic leave a footprint, here's the thing about the mixers, if anyone is too lazy to figure it out they can just blame it on the owner of the mixer since they were the last ones on record to have the funds.   That would motivate the mixers to cooperate with the investigation.   

I think you have shown how evidence can be used to shape a case, however to be fair to all parties the forensics really must start at the beginning and go where it leads, my guess it many interesting things will be found.


Based on what you found Mt Cox will have to account for those transactions -- they may all be legit, all illegit, or some mixture the point is we know where they came from and MG must make an accounting.  Whatever he can't account for must be assumed that he has control over.

I think the main point is, if those addresses could in any way be linked to MtGox, then the coins cannot be stolen.

No thief would be dumb enough to sell all coins in one big chunk to a single entity that is also so  incredibly stupid to keep the coins as one single chunk in one address stored.

If the above addresses are in any way linked to gox, then the coins are retrievable.

Would it help to make a directory of every Btcoin address that has been used to send coins to Gox?

I have a few addresses they gave me.

Is it possible to follow the path like that?

You mentioned "one single chunk" you uncovered and delineated several big chunks.  

I suspect the road to finding what happened to be long and hard, but it it's short and smooth, that better for everyone.  

Mt Gox was the first exchange, I'm told it started in 2009, at that time on the block chain there should be very few entries as compared to now, so although you can work backwards from now that out again, you can also pretty much start at the beginning. 

My guess is many people, over time, will give their mt gox address to help connect the dots

Given that MG was the first and the biggest exchange a lot of major activity pointing to any single direction will probably be them. 

So who stole $300,000,0000 USD worth of Bitcoins and got away with it?

PRIME SUSPECTS:

All Mt. Gox staff:

Mark Karpeles
Gay Butchery Gonzales
+ the rest

ROUND EM UP, LIE DETECTOR THEM

you might be right, but what if you are wrong?

the block chain can help you find the truth, the block chain has the answer

It was estublished as trading magic cards at 2009. but as a bitcoin exchange mtgox started at 2011. When mark bought it from caleb.

http://www.hackingdaily.com/2014/02/mtgox-speculations.html

An IRC log posted on Pastebin on June 23rd 2011 there is an insight to some of the 'missing coins'. Here is an important snippet from the logs;

<go1dfish> MagicalTux: 432109.87654321 is that pattern random, or was it chosen deliberately?
<go1dfish> by patern I mean the fact that it looks like a countdown
<sharkasgo> probably deliberate so it would be easy to search for
<MagicalTux> go1dfish: it's deliberate
<MagicalTux> want me to do it again? :)
<go1dfish> MagicalTux: yes, if you could send like a tiny amount to an address someone throws out
<go1dfish> that would do a huge amount to restore confidence
<MagicalTux> I broke out the 432109.87654321 already
<MagicalTux> but I'll make a new one
<UberCookies> I wonder if I've reclaimed my account correctly...
<xelister> do .424242
<MagicalTux> xelister: 424242.42424242 ?
<xelister> yeap
<go1dfish> just need to see a transaction happen from an account with a huge balance with an amount listed here to an address listed here
<MagicalTux> connecting the offline storage and decrypting on a firewalled system~
<go1dfish> 1AbTRVrRYGri1sZvqHBadnXaCHkuXJtV5N
<MagicalTux> I'll make the transaction and push it manually
<notallhere> this would completely restore a lot of peoples faith
<go1dfish> MagicalTux: post an address and I'll send you an amount
<Ooofo> MagicalTux, to get the "free month of trading" thing, will that be automatically done based on rolled back trades or do we have to apply somehow?
<MagicalTux> Ooofo: it'll be automatic
<Ooofo> awesome
<MagicalTux> I got all the data of all the affected users here
<MagicalTux> go1dfish: no, not practical
<go1dfish> ok
<MagicalTux> go1dfish: I'll send 424242.42424242 bitcoins from a bunch of 50kBTC addresses (and maybe on 42kBTC) to one
<MagicalTux> well, two actually
<MagicalTux> one will get the 424k, the other one will get the change
<go1dfish> ok, yeah all transactions get split that way as I understand it
<MagicalTux> ready guys? Don't come after me claiming we have no coins after that
<MagicalTux> hopefully I'll be able to work without getting too much disturbed after that~
<go1dfish> yeah, ready
<nanotube> MagicalTux: wasn't your last tx 432K btc? lost 8k?
<geist_> no
<geist_> thats just the amount someone suggested
<geist_> (the 424242)
<nanotube> ah
<MagicalTux> 42 is the answer
<go1dfish> to everything
<sixEch0> 42 is my password!
<noagendamarket> lol
<nanotube> hehe ic
<go1dfish> 42 is the solution to every block to
<mabus> wait what's going on, is he proving he has our bitcoins still?
<go1dfish> shit I just ruined the economy
<mabus> what does this help
<geist_> theres a lot of people crying wolf saying gox doesnt have their btc anymore
<wumpus> don't send them to the bitcoin eater please :)
<go1dfish> mabus: tux is shuffling large numbers of bitcoins to show they are still under his control
<MagicalTux> anyway, going to send to 1eHhgW6vquBY... the 424242.42424242 btc


We can see from the above log the community were questioning Mark about the amount of Gox claim to have held in 2011 and wanted proof he owned a large amount. We can see that he agreed to send 424242.42424242 to an address beginning with 1eHhgW6vquBY. Funny enough, we've located said transaction and confirmed it happened. It can be seen in the following.

https://blockchain.info/tx/3a1b9e330d32fef1ee42f8e86420d2be978bbe0dc5862f17da9027cf9e11f8c4

The above transaction shows that Gox, at least at one point in time, had a large sum of Bitcoins.

Digging further into the transactions we can see that a few weeks later the large amount of Bitcoins are broken into a smaller amount and placed into two address as seen below;

https://blockchain.info/tx/7a2a6f66e87ed4e72d85ba7a82eda1572605c3330c461e171f58d7ff2763ac63


We can only assume as this point that this address also belongs to Gox.

A short time after this, a transaction occurred which broke the large amount of Bitcoins into wallets, each containing 50,000. We don't know the exact reasoning for this but we can presume they were possibly being moved into cold storage separately.

2 months after this, a transaction occurs from within the addresses that still are connected to Gox which transfer batches of 50,000 into a larger sum of 500,000 apart from 1 address which still contained 50,000 which can be seen below;

https://blockchain.info/tx/29a3efd3ef04f9153d47a990bd7b048a4b2d213daaa5fb8ed670fb85f13bdbcf


If we follow the 500,000 Bitcoin wallet, we can see that they make a large transaction of nearly all of the coins are made and sent to a wallet publicly belonging to Gox on the Blockchain as seen below. This can only prove our theory that Gox had been in control of the coins the whole time.

https://blockchain.info/tx/b269bf1b82dae8a61f7f91dbf7a9d807e30963c1ae00ddd95a8faebea6d0a007


The 50,000 address we mentioned earlier then split the coins into a batch of 40,000 and a batch of 10,000. This wallet also was under the control of Gox and the 40,000 Bitcoin address still remains there, untouched, since 2011.

https://blockchain.info/address/1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV


When the wallets had combined to sent the 500,000 + 50,000, there was a wallet which wasn't included and this wallet, to this day, still has 50,000 Bitcoins in the wallet which are unspent.


https://blockchain.info/address/1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9


We can see that all of the mentioned addresses clearly belong to Gox and after slightly digging through them we can see they have 90,000 Bitcoins which have been there since 2011. I'm sure if we dug further and investigated more we would be able to find much more Bitcoins.

This raises the question, who is lying?

In the Gox leaked crisis plan, it stated they had 2,000 Bitcoins to their name. This means either the document was false, Mark or an employee had lied in the document in an attempt to hide the funds or the firm have lost the private keys for the wallets rendering them nothing more than eye candy.

We are not claiming they didn't lose some coins legitimately to the malleability bug but there is no way that 500,000 coins could have been stolen. Even the planets worst auditor wouldn't have missed such a large amount of Bitcoins disappearing from the companies reserve.

Could this be an attempt to walk away with stashed Bitcoins or has the company been running on lies after finding out their wallets were missing funds and/or they lost the private keys.

I think the work you have been doing is invaluable and I would hope (but have no confidence!) that the Bitcoin Foundation has already put expertise into this to provide to investigators.

I strongly advise you to work with the other members of the community who have been putting so much effort into this and gather the information into a report, to send to the Japanese officials in charge of administering Mt Gox.

Yes, multiple efforts need to be mounted from many different directions for many different reasons. 

- the main reason is to make the Mt Gox users whole so that no one looses,
- but also to show the world that the cryptocurrency system in general and the bitcoin system specifically works, that it can protect itself and can be self governed
When a department store's security department finds a thief they turn them over to police, who in turn turn them over to prosecutors, who in turn turn them over to prisons.

This is an opportunity for btc to be taken seriously on a totally different level

Have you looked at this analysis?

That's good and it certainly counts.   As people examine various parts of the block chain many things will be discovered, most of which will be rather easy to explain some of which won't but all of it will be necessary to examine. 

The more we know the less we we need to blindly trust.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494146.new#new

Who needed the fall -guy Mark ?

I'm linking in my other thread, but will post here now.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494761.msg5456922#msg5456922


What tool allows me to take the ledger on disk and parse out records...I read from the paper i mentioned there is some python tool from Gavin.  Can anyone point to the specific script please.

additional to what i post in here before, the addresses i linked that follow the pattern of having all zeroes in front of the dot (except the first/front digit), there is a second pattern

the second pattern is, all of the addresses that were linked to the 424k proof address karpeles sent the 424k in to proof that the exchange has all funds still have at least one transaction received of exactly 0.00777 btc

additional to this, there are many of the addresses which i linked that also include both patterns.

Quoting myself from another thread


source

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495089.msg5454694#msg5454694


the 0.00777 pattern i read about in another thread, so i just wanted to connect this with what i figured out so far.

This is exactly what i have been saying and everyone just calls me names and stuff.
If you watch the video: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=493858.0
He says he has 'identified the problem' and is 'working on it'
What else could that mean other than - they screwed up their wallets/keys and are trying to fix it now.

Great work you guys are doing. If we can prove they still have the coins then something surely can be done.

There is the question remaining still, why if this is the case, he simply does not tell us and points us to the cold storage wallets. Either manipulation or gag order or blackmail or a mix of all that.

There is now a reward for a key part of this puzzle: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495089.0

what is even stranger is those 0.00777 received btc to the addresses named above, seem to have happened only recently, on February the 6th 2014 and later.

edit: the 0.00777 theory being related might be a false after checking random top 100 richlist addresses. Too many of them received exactly 0.00777 btc. (mostly on febr the 6th 2014)

Maybe it is some troll or part of how the btc protocol works, resulting in many such 0.00777 transactions

OK I JUST TRACED BITCOINS I SENT TO GOX ON:

2014-02-03 06:29:00

SENT 5 BTC TO Mt.GOX ADDRESS: 1CdiTM1BCifFB5KpW8L5t51PUL8NW7vW9E

TRANSACTION: https://blockchain.info/address/1CdiTM1BCifFB5KpW8L5t51PUL8NW7vW9E

NEXT my 5 BTC get's sent to: 1GvYWVRPyq2mQFf8w64DZtyX4ekK5taa1d

https://blockchain.info/address/1GvYWVRPyq2mQFf8w64DZtyX4ekK5taa1d

NEXT my 5 BTC get's sent to: 1NRUPGCqCX56DvVptV2dvNPS2UwZMsUXvA

https://blockchain.info/address/1NRUPGCqCX56DvVptV2dvNPS2UwZMsUXvA

AND IT IS STILL THERE!

SO WHY CAN'T I CLAIM THAT BACK IN COURT?

It hasn't been stolen, it is just sitting in some dormant wallet of Gox's.

Your unregulated electronic funny munny has no power here :)

Maybe, just maybe; *gasp*; he could be lying!

I really would ignore anything Mark tells you.

following

thelema93 I am not calling you names but I do advise you to get used to the fact that the odds are strongly stacked against those (including myself) owed money by Gox.

I think that the forensic analysis of the blockchain going on is extremely important and I take my hat off to those involved. I want to know just like everyone else where the btc went. But you must understand that even if every last satoshi is accounted for this does not mean everything will be OK.

In any case, now that the legal machine is whirring into action it will be a minimum of several months before complete closure. So if you have a job, a family, a life to get on with... then make sure you carry on, because this is going to take time to unwind.

777 can mean jackpot or access permission chmod.

Hi,
Firstable, sorry for my english, I'm french.

I "had" 13 bitcoins on my account mtgox (8 i bought on the site, 4 i tranfered to mtgox from another plateform)
I "had" 1700 euros on my account mtgox (and 400 more in transaction, from gox to my french bank account, tranfert with statut confirmed but not sent, in process they said...)

What can I do? What should I do?
If you have bitoin and money in mtgox, there are meant to have the same destiny or is it possible to get back your money, in a different way?

In the blockchain, I see 4 transactions (which match the 4 deposit i made in mtogox). Is it useful? What can i do about it?

Thank you for you help and hope precious advices.

Magali

He probably hast quite a good portion of the coins that were 'allegedly' lost.
I just did random clicking from one of the addresses to find one that still has 50k BTC on it.

what do you think of this ?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zc54t/evidence_that_karpeles_still_has_the_coins/cfsdexm

I'm unfamiliar with reddit, so I got confused both at the facts of the matter as well as who was saying what to whom.

There is a very good reason why "lie detectors", more correctly known as a polygraph, are not admissable evidence. They do not reliably indicate truth, they just measure changes in heart rate, breathing, and galvanic skin response. Anyone with imagination and a modicum of self control can make the operator believe/disbelieve anything they want to. A sociopath will always "beat" a lie detector. So will a practitioner or meditation, yoga, or anything else where iron self discipline is a component.

Now sodium amytal/pentothal and a competent psychologist....

Drugs? Nono, that is not nice.

Send him (and possibly some of his colleagues) a few weeks to Fuchu Prison until the cold storage is back or a very credible explanation is given where the coins went  ;D

http://www.gaijinriders.com/showthread.php?2241-Japan-Prisons-Hope-none-every-experience-it

hahahahahaaaa  the name says it all

Guys,

Please read this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494146.0;all

Your coins stored at Gox left Gox between 18 December 2013 and 6 January 2014 - probably on 22 December 2013

Part of these coins were sent on more or less 6 January 2014 to be sold on a very specific bitcoin exchange (there is one exchange that in certain aspect differs from the other exchanges and these coins could be sold only there).

___________________________________________________________

Please make blockchain analysis on these dates:
- 22 Dec 2013 (+/- 1 day) coins leaving Gox (sending addresses will be Gox addresses)
- 6 Jan 2014 (+/- 1 day) coins arriving at another (unnamed yet) exchange (receiving addresses will be another exchange addresses) - given the jurisdiction this exchange should store documentation.

I need someone to identify / find large transactions on these days to substantiate how Karpeles' friends routed your coins to help bring in criminal charges.

I found one Gox-ishly looking address that was in this block: https://blockchain.info/block/000000000000000387df74a7bf9038634760435a1e5c3cebaef5084df48161ad exactly on the expected day 22 Dec 2013 when your coins were transfered from Gox by Karpeles / Gox's money maker.

BTC 5,000 were sent to this address: https://blockchain.info/address/1CJBqJ3MwUVVNsqXpJx8Aecc3PWxSWPmUc BTC 31k received from exchange-ishly looking inputs, with first test of BTC 1 sent on 16 Dec 2013. There are lots of addresses (as you dig deeper) that have transaction of BTC 1 made on 16 Dec 2013, there are also transactions made prior to this date that have ALWAYS a test transaction of BTC 1.

Further investigation of outputs will lead you to addresses that had BTC 16k, 70k or more (some of these wallets are being used right now) - these were / are the new exchange's hot wallets (I think) on which your formerly owned coins are used now for market making activities.

Just another theory which might be part of the puzzle..

1) Both the REAL BTC and USD were long ago channeled out of MtGox, MtGox operating a fractional reserve (somewhere between june 2013 when Karpeles proved he had 424k BTC under his control and now

2) He kept just enough funds in the hot wallet to be able to pay out withdrawals with whatever more he made out of fees

3) Intentionally he delayed withdrawals, leading to the USD price on gox shooting up, allowing him to do arbitrage with the complicity of another exchange and people close to him, traveling to receive the USD directly in japan and channel it back to the exchange conspiring

3.b) There was also probably a bot running on MtGox profiting from the smallest difference in buy/sell, being able to trade at no fees.
Another way of manipulation used, was to deliberate shoot the price up and down in sharp spikes, sending signals to other exchanges, and being able to buy/sell with pre-knowledge of where the price would go.
Since the goxBTC/goxUSD were not real anyway and via manipulation he had a large piece of them, it was easy for him to control where the price goes.

4) At some point when there was not much to be made anymore with this scheme, as people would simply not deposit USD anymore into MtGox he decided to pull the plug of BTC deposits as well

5) The intention to pull the plug on BTC deposits was to create a panic and shoot the BTC price down on MtGox. This allowed him to buy up a lot of cheap goxBTC along with what he already had on the exchange.
Those goxBTC and goxUSD were already worthless as not backed up by REAL btc/usd. They were just IOUs

6) Knowing the goxBTC he holds is worthless, he dumped them all in one go, creating another mass panic and shooting the price down to 91.5 USD, allowing him to buy even more BTC at the bottom, followed by a sharp spike up, creating another panic.
Rinse and repeat until he has shaken out the very last bit of most customers both in goxUSD and goxBTC.

7) The final kill blow was when he again used the now massive amounts of goxBTC to shoot the price down to 135 and close shop

8) Now that shop was closed, he could file bankruptcy and claim he owes people only 135 per BTC as this was what they were trading for at this point before shutting it down. Not allowing others to channel money in and buy the price up again

9) With all the manipulation he managed to drive down the liabilities to his customers down to a minimum

10) People thinking they lost all, in shock, will be grateful to even get 135 per BTC once this is over. They will be willing to sign anything anything to get at least something out, preventing them from further demands in the future

11) Gox will rise up again under a new label Gox.com, now having millions of scammed BTC and USD in their pockets, while having had to pay only 1/10th of liabilities to the former customers

 ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To08WTuM98M

People are already doing this. #1 idea is that the US Feds have control of the Cold Storage keys.

Insightful, hopefully I'll be able to give a proper response on return

The above theory has to explain why he did not just run the exchange normally and profit from it when he had 80-90% of all trades.

If money was the motive, he could have profited without even manipulating at all, or if he wanted some extra, just use the exchange powers to get that extra.

So adding to the above, maybe he decided to turn his customers' BTC into USD and settle the coinlab case along with whatever the US gov was squelching out of him for not having registered properly as a money transmitter when accepting USD funds from US customers.

He thought that maybe he would be able to get all this back via the arbitrage and other shady things i described, including fees from trades and deposits/withdrawals.

But then he got surprised by bitcoin shooting up like there was no tomorrow. We went from around 100 to 1200 in just a few weeks.

Now one might think, to get to 1200 there had to be a lot of USD coming into the exchange to get the price that high. But this is not true. All it takes to make the price shoot up is for people owning BTC, thinking it is more worth, not willing to sell for less, and others bringing new USD into the exchange willing to buy at those prices.

The problem here was not him not having the USD for the withdrawals, but him not having the REAL btc anymore. On the USD part, people would simply not have placed any orders on MtGox, so either the price would go down, or people would have to wait for someone willing to buy the goxBTC at such high prices with fresh USD coming in.

However, when people started to withdraw BTCs in masses, this is what collapsed the whole system. He simply did not have the BTC anymore as explained above.


The mistake was to use customer funds to pay out liabilities for court cases the exchange owned. He should have declared bankruptcy back then and pay out everyone his funds fully, then restart as a new business with a new CEO.
(or even better, pay out everyone fully, and THEN shut down and declare bankruptcy)

Is it a Chinese exchange who's volume spiked up a lot for no apparent reason (at that time)? Why keep it's name secret for now?
BDD shows a huge spike on the 7th February, but not the 6th January. And another one in December, shouldn't these coincide with the thefts?

You just proved yourself you are an idiot (http://youareanidiot.org/).
What you have is an evidence that you have sent some BTCs to MtGox.
MtGox filed for bankruptcy, meaning all funds are frozen, and creditors can't touch whatever MtGox has until some court order. Go ahead read mtgox.com and get yourself informed. All you can do, at this moment, is to cross your finger, and pray perhaps, for a court order in your favor. And that Mark will remain faithful and accountable, that he will do his best to regain funds to return what's yours and other creditors. But can we trust his word? And when can we get our money back? Many creditors don't have enough faith for that. So, there even may be some deal that Mark will agree to pay only 50% (or whatever portion) of debts in timely manner. I will say it would be wise to be a part of that bargain. It's better than nothing, right?
Otherwise, you are on your own. And if you decide to take a different action, your legal fee would be 100 times larger than your initial loss. It sucks. The truth is too harsh, and difficult to swallow. You just spent 15BTCs for a lesson of life time. I will say it's well spent, and not too expensive.
If you haven't learned anything by being Goxed, you are really an idiot (http://youareanidiot.org/).

Who do you possibly know that address 1NRUPGCqCX56DvVptV2dvNPS2UwZMsUXvA belongs to Mtgox??

I think everyone needs to calm down trolling and think about the salient issues of contention here in a legal sense.

A bit of background, i'm studying for my phd in the law faculty at oxford and i have spoken to a specialist on property and the meaning of property as well as a judge who is an old friend at the international criminal court and a barrister who specialises in money laundering.

Now, the person is not an idiot. What is at issue here is the legal definition of what bit coins are.

There are two ways this can be established, firstly, through an emergency act of parliament, secondly, through a test case brought by the CPS to see whether or not bitcoin can be interpreted as fitting under an existing law.

You all operate on a folk misconception of law and ownership as if it is based on statute. Further, you all DECIDE what bitcoins are (your interpretation) and then make an argument on the basis of this (for example a previous poster who talks about the laws relating to cash in Germany). This is mere speculation. None of us have any idea how this might play out if a test case were brought or if an act of parliament was passed. Even legal professionals at the top of their game can only speculate. It is simply unknowable before the process is followed, though educated guesses can be made.

I know in the UK at least we have a common law system, which means that even something like bitcoin can come under the purview of an extant statute if this is deemed reasonable by a judge, a jury, or the lords (depending on the nature of the test case).

Now, it rests on a political or legal decision to classify bitcoin in a particular way. If the UK government came out today, or if a judge passed a ruling tomorrow, that stated that bitcoins were a good, not a unit of exchange, and furthermore that they are a good that can be owned in the sense of any other good, it would be the case that if you could follow your bitcoins from MtGox to another account on the blockchain you would be able to have an injunction served to freeze those assets, which could mean confiscating the server that the bitcoin is currently stored on. I am speaking specifically if these bitcoins have been passed through shill addresses (which seems to be the case) that exist only to throw people off the trail. Of course, if they go into an account already full of bitcoins and then leave again, it is more difficult if not impossible (again, depending on specifics) to trace *your* bitcoin. If however, they enter into an account before being split into a tiny transaction and a large transaction, and you follow these transactions to a residing address, than you can most certainly say that they are your bitcoins, your property, and take legal steps to have these recovered. Providing these bitcoins are held on a server, an injunction could be issued to freeze access to that account or failing that to confiscate the server (in the same way that you can confiscate a car containing stolen goods even if the majority of goods in the car are not stolen). If these bitcoins have gone offline, a warrant could be issued to find out which physical address was using an IP at the time that they took them offline (providing of course that these details are stored).

I am an idiot for storing my coins in Gox. And I am idiot for being so negligent and lazy. But it would seem that there is a prima facie case to answer here. When I follow the transactions from Gox it is very obvious that they have been sent through a rudimentary system that attempts to hide their final destination. The co-ordination of transaction times, the correspondence of amounts, all makes this very obvious. The notion that you cannot own a bitcoin, that bitcoins are not property, that bitcoins are like cash and should be treated so, is all pure speculation. Having spoken to as I said to a barrister who specialises in the idea of property and how property is defined, there is certainly a chance that if someone brought a case against say, an exchange or wallet service that was owning the funds, that a good barrister could set a precedent defining bitcoin as a particular kind of good. If bitcoins were defined in this way, they would be subject to the usual legal procedures to recover them, i.e. the assets would be frozen or seized whilst a legal process was undertaken.

A good analogy in the UK is the problem with the theft of copper. Previously, the problem was that copper, like bitcoin, was a commodity (i'm not making a claim here, please proceed for the sake of argument) which could be mixed up with other copper, it could be melted down and reformed into new things, and it became impossible to distinguish which bit of copper belonged to who. Now, however, they have a copper marking system, which means that even if copper is melted down and reformed into something new, it bears a trace that identifies it to its rightful owner. The copper is seized or the assets frozen and as soon as proof is established that you the rightful owner, it is returned.

I understand that for some of these bitcoins they will have entered into very large addresses and thus it becomes very difficult to follow the trail. But if you can show beyond reasonable doubt that the bitcoins were taken from your account and belong to you, like for example if it is the case that the coins have been split into shill addresses but it's very clear that this was a diversionary tactic and now they are rested in amounts of around 3 bitcoins in numerous addresses, that is at least enough evidence to have the assets seized or frozen pending an investigation.

As I said, this depends on either parliament taking action or the CPS or an ambitious young lawyer bringing a test case to attempt to classify bitcoin under existing law. But it is not some fantasy. It is not idiotic. In fact, what is idiotic are these uninformed ramblings of people who have no idea about political or legal process. I accept that this is unlikely to happen, but it is not an avenue to be dismissed. The sums involved are so large that there is clearly a public interest in the CPS bringing such a case. I am also meeting with my local MP tomorrow who I hope will bring an early day motion to parliament. Everyone here has an idea of what bitcoin is, but no-one, not even the top legal professionals, know how this might play out in a legal or political setting. So wind your necks in folks, and before insulting and trolling people, at least take some time to consider their argument. In the end you may be right, govt might not care, CPS might be unwilling to bring a test case, and departments are not going to take on this huge burden on their resources without being directed from the centre (exactly as we saw in japan, a declaration it was nothing to do with them followed by an assurance from the governments that ministries will be involved and investigations will occur).

Everyone keeps spewing out this libertarian nonsense, oh bitcoin is free from the government, we shouldn't intervene (forgetting of course where all the technology it runs on started on, in HUGE public projects, the internet itself, for example, coming from the US military —hardly free from government). But there has been no collective action. Big exchanges knew what was going on and kept customers in the dark. There is no sympathy but harshness, malice and callousness. When a lot of people look at this mud slinging, you know what they thing? This is exactly why we NEED government and regulation, this lot couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, they couldn't decide how to make a cup of tea, never mind to participate collectively in that thing we call society. Ironically, the response of the bitcoin community is a massive argument in favour of an independent body that regulates contractual relationships between individuals. That's what a government is. The longer the bitcoin community fails to come up with collective action to at least aid and assist depositors, the more people in desperation will turn to what is familiar to them. I lost a modest sum, easy come easy go. Some people have lost their life savings. Sure, it was a bad move. Yes, it was stupid. But that does not make them to blame. It makes them complicit, which is a different thing altogether. No options should be dismissed, all should be pursued. And if this libertarian thing is ever going to work, it has to work now, in crisis. The bitcoin community could easily guarantee at least 50% of gox deposits, for example, through donations, whilst at the same time ridding the community of the stain that was gox. Punishing gox and punishing the people who use it, many of whom remember were early adopters who BELIEVED in this thing, are different things and must be seperated. 

http://www.bitcoinupdate.nl/1/post/2014/02/mt-gox-maanden-lang-gehackt-en-geplunderd.html

Update 3 maart 2014 20:05
Mark Karpelès is gevlucht met zijn lijfwachten richting de kustplaats Sendai.


I used goooooogle translate, Mark Karpelès, some guards are in Sendai Japan.

You mean he left tokyo?

btw it s not him on the picture

You can't have it both ways. Bitcoin was explicitly invented as a way to exchange tokens of value outside of any regulatory system. Either a money system is outside of the government or its inside of the government. If you have all the functions of government private property rights and justice system involved then there is no need for a decentralized blockchain. It would be a waste of time. You can go one way or the other way, but you can't have both.

Actually, the reality is that we always have it both ways. There is anarchy amongst government and government amongst anarchy. For me, utopia would be a life where we all follow a few simple rules, one of them being the Golden Rule.

In the case of Bitcoin, we are at least governed by math. However, if theft becomes prevalent, and the society of Bitcoin cannot prevent a theft of this size, then Bitcoin is no better than FIAT. Surely a Bitcoin "court of law" could be established to review the Blockchain and other evidence to determine rightful ownership and return it to the original owner. Same should be said for LOST Bitcoin. If a person accidentally throws their Bitcoin away into the trash, it should be recoverable provided the person can prove ownership. We might give up privacy for a system like this, but quite frankly, isn't every single action on the Internet recorded anyhow?

The NSA and other such entities will surely be able to tell us what happened in this heist.

currently there is decentalized govt regulation, because there are many countried that has acknowledged btc, allowed it to exist, may have even classified it, and have made some rules pertaining to it. 

In fact, the US govt is not just a rule maker of btc they are also a btc holder, one of the larger holders I might add

Huh? I believe you are in wrong thread.
That's good topic you are talking about. Just start new thread. Don't hijack the others.

Yes he left Tokio

https://blockchain.info/tr/address/1LNWw6yCxkUmkhArb2Nf2MPw6vG7u5WG7q

5.7 million BTC, that's some address. That's...  3.3 Billion USD plenty for everybody and a bonus.

damnnn

Actually, this is thread where armis is op.  ;)

Quote from: nwtrades on Today at 02:33:54 AM
Due to the news of rampant thefts at Bitcoin exchanges this past week (Mt. Gox, Poloniex, Flexcoin) it is becoming apparent that there's a dire need for some security standards in the Bitcoin community to ensure compliance and build client trust.  The media is jumping over every hack story that comes out and shouting that it's insecure.  You can't blame people for thinking this way, because at this point it's a legitimate fear.

There is no question that we need a standard process for third party security experts to be able to review exchange processes and software from top to bottom.  If you know of some sort of external security company that already does this, feel free to post.

Perhaps exchanges could be verified on a certain level of compliance and receive a letter or badge to post on their website for proof of audit.  Maybe someone like Andreas Antonopoulos would be interested to open this discussion further.

Items to address in audit:

- Source code, deployment and version control procedures
- Bitcoin software and protocol implementation
- Server platform (software versions, port scanning, server logging, brute force protections, DDOS protection, backups, redundancy, etc)
- Emergency shutdown and startup procedures
- Physical security (security cameras, electronic facility monitoring, alarm systems, swipe-cards, etc)
- Use of AML / KYC procedures and encrypted offsite storage of client documents
- Offsite cold storage (multiple locations) and use of keys, with logs of all activity
- Onsite hot wallet and use of keys
- Minimum of email verification or 2-Factor Authentication mandatory for withdrawals on all client accounts
- Options for clients to set a withdrawal limit on their account (similar to a bank)
- Alerts available for unusual activity on client accounts, with additional verification option (email or phone call) in case of sudden large withdrawals
- Staff background checks
- Staff fraud prevention training
- On-site restrictions for staff electronics and storage devices
- Restricted access areas for developers and system-critical staff
- Procedures for reporting illegal or suspicious activity to law enforcement

I will add to this as more feedback comes in.  PLEASE contribute!  This is a great community and the development of this ecosystem is happening and will continue happening thanks to you!

I agree with this but some points will be hard to get audit.
I can compare an exchange as gaming platform. Example playtech software who is an author of casino software. So such software company make the exchange software and exchange operators buy licence. Software is created in profesional software firm where they gurantee bug free and hack proof software. It could be also usefull of prevention/detection if exchange operator doing inside trade with virtual coins/fiat.

you are right, however whatever can get done should be done, whatever cannot be done immediately should be placed on the 'things to do' list so that it is addressed at some future stage.

until this whole Mt Gox matter is finally settled btc will fail to soar like it is designed to do.

So, where is this investigation at now?

Do we know the MtGox 'coldwallet' addresses and their BTC balances? i.e. definite blockchain evidence rather than theory.

　
No. 11 No. 5, Shibuya-ku, Tokyo, Shibuya 2-chome
　　　 , Inc. MTGOX
　　　　　　　　　　 Representative Director Karupuresu-Marc Mari Robeto

Notice of petition for civil rehabilitation proceedings

　
Today filed a motion for civil rehabilitation proceedings in the Tokyo District Court, the Company was accepted. In addition, from the court, and an instruction that disables a comprehensive temporary restraining order to prohibit the Company will reimburse you for the debt, to the transfer of assets, and to the collateral assets, the enforcement by creditors against the assets of the Company , so we received the order of investigation to order supervision order to order supervision by the regulatory committee, the investigation by the investigation committee, as described below, will be announced. Become a place where it becomes a situation like this, to apologize for the great deal of worry and inconvenience of everyone user, regarding. Everyone of the other parties concerned, so sorry truly, deeply apologize. Our company, so we are in full compliance with the instructions of the court, future property will continue to be conservation properly.

Ki

Reasons and circumstances that led to the petition and our financial condition
We have to determine is as follows, and is said to be in a situation of insolvency the company's financial position to be aware of (1) the present time.

Total assets   　　　　　3,841,866,163 yen
Total current liabilities   　　　6,501,119,371 yen
In the background of current liabilities (2) The Company has increased, causing loss of bit coin, that the disappearance of the deposits can be considered, for this, hit with full force in the elucidation of the truth by, for example, requested an investigation by experts You. For trouble with the impetus of the complaint are as follows.

By the unauthorized access to early February 2014, to exploit a bug in the system of bit coin, transactions (withdrawals bit coin) remittance of bit coin does not complete successfully, and also increased, by the unauthorized access to successfully exploited such bug , that may have been pulled out improperly bit coins were found.
　　it can be seen that then, bit coin of mass were gone by the investigation of the Company, the exact circumstances are not known still, but by February 24 or about 2014, bit coin holdings of transaction history on the user approximately 750 000 bit coin, and that nearly all of the approximately 100 000 bit coins are carriers bit of coin transaction history on our own is gone've found is. The Company believes the possibility that the bugs have been stolen by the abuse is high bit coin that is no longer, now, consider the criminal complaint, and we ask the expert procedures.
　　In addition, the 24th month, that there is a discrepancy heavily in the total amount of deposits to a financial institution that manages the total amount of deposits of reality from the user, such deposits, deposit balance is insufficient to significantly (subject to change high amount of money is under investigation, but about 2.8 billion yen at maximum) were found. Because it is expected the Company is currently investigating the cause of the problem, including the damage caused by hacking by a third party, then the problem is probably more than one, you need to investigate a huge deal in the past in order to find the cause there. Therefore, at this time, the cause of the problem is not possible to do also confirm the amount of deposits that are insufficient for the deposits and balances the total number of bit coin, let alone gone.
Since the discrepancy deposit balances and deposits balance and loss of bit coin above is discovered, it is determined that business operations of normal is difficult, the Company, our site (Japan time) in the middle of the day of the 25th month I stopped across the board access to.

For submission of complaint or submission (3) offense report, and ask the expert has already launched an investigation and study. Then, the proper criminal punishment is carried out, and we strive damage recover as is achieved.
In addition, the present invention is not limited to Japan, the survey of each relevant authorities and investigation on this matter, we will continue to cooperate fully.
In order to perform a high payment as possible to everyone creditors, it is necessary to explore the possibility of being able to stay in business, we select the playback procedure.
In addition, it is that through the legal bankruptcy proceedings, you go through the effort of reconstruction while doing their accountability under the supervision of the court, but also for our, you need even on the industry of bit coin will develop healthily I am and understanding.
Future, to be able to repay as much as possible to everyone of creditors, because it is committed to strive investigation of the case, recovery of damages, the recovery of the business, you would like to ask for your understanding in civil rehabilitation proceedings of the Company, for your cooperation.

Summary of petition
February 28, 2014 (1) monkey standing Date
(2) a court of competent jurisdiction Tokyo District Court
(3) complaint agent Baker & McKenzie law firm (Foreign Law Joint Enterprise)
　　　　　　　　　　lawyer Hideyuki Yamamoto, the end of wealth Junko
　　　　　　　　 legal professional corporation Yodoyabashi-Yamagami Joint
　　　　　　　　　　lawyer Shinomiya Akio, the Kawai Kazumasa
(4) Supervisory Nagashima Ohno & Tsunematsu Nobuaki Kobayashi lawyer
(5) Same as above investigation committee
26 years (6) Case No. Heisei (re) No. 12 rehabilitation proceedings alleged incident
For more information, please contact
(is scheduled March 3, 2014 (Mon) opened), is an inquiry to the company as more information, please contact, as follows, the Company, so that we can set up a call center If you have, I ask to have you call the call center or less.

　　
(Japanese) telephone number 03-4588-3921
phone number 03-4588-3922 (English-speaking)
10:00 to 17:00 Monday to Friday Hours

　　　
In addition, I ask to have you refrain from inquiries to the office of supervisor and research committee.
Or more


[Translation from the Japanese]
February 28, 2014

To anyone concerned
Mark Karpeles
Representative Director
MtGox Co., Ltd.
2-11-5 Shibuya
Shibuya-ku, Tokyo

ANNOUNCEMENT REGARDING AN APPLICATION FOR COMMENCEMENT OF A PROCEDURE OF CIVIL REHABILITATION

MtGox Co., Ltd. Made today an application for commencement of a procedure of civil rehabilitation (minji saisei) at the Tokyo District Court. This application was accepted on the same day. Further, MtGox Co., Ltd is under several orders issued by the Court:. a preservative order prohibiting it from paying its debts, transferring its assets or establishing security over its assets, an order establishing a comprehensive prohibition of forced attachment of its assets by its creditors and a supervisory order ordering supervision by a supervisory committee In Consequence, MtGox hereby informs you as FOLLOWS.
We first Express Our most sincere Regrets and Apologies for this situation and for Causing so much Inconvenience to all users and Our Other interested Parties. We Will Respect fully the Above Orders and Maintain Our assets with all the necessary care.

Financial situation, reasons and timeline leading to this application
. (1) As of now, the liabilities of MtGox Co, Ltd exceed its assets and its financial situation is as follows:

Total amount of assets    3,841,866,163
Total amount of current liabilities    6,501,119,371
.. (2) The increase of current liabilities may be linked to a loss of bitcoins and customer funds These are now investigated by an expert and all efforts are made to discover the truth This application was prompted by the following troubles:

At the start of February 2014, illegal access through the abuse of a bug in the bitcoin system Resulted in an Increase in incomplete bitcoin Transfer transactions and we Discovered That There WAS a Possibility That Bitcoins had Illicitly Been Moved through the abuse of this bug.
As a result of Our internal Investigation, we found a large That Amount of Bitcoins had Disappeared. Complete Although the extent IS not yet known, we found That Approximately 750,000 Bitcoins DEPOSITED by users and Approximately 100,000 Bitcoins Belonging to U.S. had Disappeared.
We Believe That There IS a high probability That Were THESE Bitcoins stolen as a result of an abuse of this bug and we Have Asked an Expert to look at the Possibility of a Criminal complaint and undertook proper Procedures.
On the same day (24th), we found out large Discrepancies Between the Amount of Cash Held in financial Institutions and the Amount DEPOSITED from Our users. The Amounts Are Still under Investigation and May Vary but They approximate JPY 2.8 billion.
We Are Investigating the Causes of Problems THESE. Since There Are probably a Variety of Causes INCLUDING Hacking by Third Parties, we need to Investigate a Huge Amount of Transaction Reports in order to ESTABLISH the Truth. As of this date, we can not confirm the exact Amount of missing deposit Funds and the Total Amount of Bitcoins Which Disappeared.
Once we discovered that bitcoins had disappeared and the discrepancies between cash funds and deposit balances, we judged that it would be difficult to continue our activities normally and we therefore closed our site at noon on the 25th (Japan time).

(3) Regarding the Filing of a complaint or report Damages, an Expert HAS Been mandated and Investigations Have started. We Will make all Efforts to Ensure That Crimes Are punished and Damages Recovered.
Further on we Will Cooperate fully with inquiries from Authorities and Investigations related to this matter, in Japan or overseas.

In order to increase repayments to our creditors, it is necessary to explore the possibility of having MtGox Co., Ltd. Continue its business. This is why the civil rehabilitation procedure has been chosen, Rebuilding MtGox Co., Ltd under the supervision of the Court in a Legally organized procedure while giving proper Explanations Will not BE for the Sole Benefit of the company but for the whole of That bitcoin Community.
All Efforts Will Now BE made ​​to restore the business and recover Damages to Repay Debts to Creditors. We Hope for the understanding and cooperation of all.

Outline of the application
(1) Application date February 28, 2014
(2) Jurisdiction Tokyo District Court
(3) Counsel of applicant
Baker & McKenzie (Gaikokuho Joint Enterprise)
Attorney-at-law Junko Suetomi
Attorney-at-law Hideyuki Yamamoto
Yodoyabashi & Yamagami Legal Professional Corporation
Attorney-at-law Akio Shinomiya
Attorney-at-law Kazumasa Kawai

(4) Supervisor Nagashima Ohno & Tsunematsu
Attorney-at-law Nobuaki Kobayashi
(5) Investigator idem
(6) Case no. 2014 (sai) 12Civil rehabilitation commencement application

Contact information
. A Call Center HAS Been established to respond to all inquiries The Call Center IS Planned to start on March 3, 2014 All inquiries to MtGox Co, Ltd SHOULD BE made ​​to the telephone number Following:...
Telephone number +81 3-4588 -3921 (in Japanese)
Telephone number +81 3-4588-3922 (in English)
Working hours Monday to Friday 10am to 5pm (Japan time)

?

+1

Hey did you guise know the the US TREASURY, is who failed to protect JFK?  Yes, the Treasury, is who run the Secret Service.  Said another way:  The Secret Service, runs the Treasury.

So, the BTC blockchain, is a treasury.

But, who are your monetary enforcers?

Myself, if I were "King BTC", I would have waited outside mtgox and demanded to know simply, "Why are you still accepting fiat deposits?" and I would not have a problem, giving a tittie twister, bearhug, or even noogies and headlock to him, yes I would also drink his coffee and dump the rest at his feet (not on him, I am not a savage).  I would then challenge him to indian wrestle, I would do some judo tosses all nice and safelike (Japan knows what I mean) just to throw the French nerd around a bit.  Not in a harmful way, but just to see him barf and cry a bit.  "WHERE ARE THE FUCKING COINS" I would ask him, perhaps dangling a loogie in his face.

"I can't say anything!  Don't you understand COPS?!  I can't talk, they said so!"

That would be his reply.  How weak, pathetic, soft...  And law abiding.

Well, Japan is a place of law, and yet, does that accomplish much?  In what way, does law, direct those, who protect a "treasure"?  Treasure = treasury.  So, you need people defending the BTC treasury, not all these MBA vultures who dream of being a billionaire before 30 or they're failures.  Also, note that when your King (like JFK) tried to adjust the treasury toward good-money, then the Treasury may just protect their King with a purposefully slack hand.  Which, they did.

Interesting times, I see very few real men.  Many metrosexual douchebags, but few men.

And we know that Mark Karpelès and his bodyguard mr Pawczyński left Tokyo and are there currend location is City Sendai Japan, and we know that they stay in the Koyo Grand Hotel, close to the main highway.


2-3-1 Honcho
Aoba Ward, Sendai, Miyagi 980-0014
Japan

Sendai is near Fukishima is it not?

Yes

Where did he get money for personal security...he' spending other people's cash?

+1
Mark will be sued for his personal wealth http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-lawsuit-target-mark-karpeles-personal-wealth/ if he spends the money now, nothing will be left for the lawsuit.

But, if he were locked up, he would be safe and wouldn't need a bodyguard. If his personal wealth would be seized, he wouldn't be able to spend anything.

+1

I agree that Mark's incarceration is the best solution for everyone, but even if you lock down his money all he need do is prove that the expenses are necessary to defend himself and it disappears.  Nevertheless, it is best that he and  all of the funds in his control be locked down.

The class action should seek that otherwise it is just waiting in line behind the reorganization effort.

pressure could also be brought to bear on the US Feds to lock down any US funds he may control


All of those outside efforts are good, however it is most important to know where the money is via the blockchain otherwise other exchanges could do the exact same thing.

 

 

Do you know his first name?

new update on mtgox.com


what it means:

http://www.dcmagnates.com/mtgox-gets-more-time-as-court-approves-civil-rehabilitation-request/

good post

anyone considering go in business with that guy is a moron

nevertheless, the money must be found.

my plans are to go into business with him...


and take everything he has right from under him.

Someone on another thread (Peter R's theory) claims also a 2011 transaction of 432K was done by MTGOX, Karpeles:
http://blockexplorer.com/tx/84f96975ea88d317676771a482c71f39ff53beda790c89c07ae82e427b4d090f

I clicked through one path which ended up on the same address as above already posted: 1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9 with 50K where very small BTC amounts are still put onto, but never taken away. If that were an MTGOX address, BTC would still be there. If you said - you forgot the keys - get convicted and after a certain amount of years miraculously find the key again - you're deadly rich and already served your penalty.

Source
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=497289.msg5545261#msg5545261
http://blockexplorer.com/address/1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9

I think when he got hacked he was pissed that there was 'nothing he could do' so he devised a plan to hack himself thinking everyone would adopt the same 'nothing we could do' attitude, however little did he know that if 'nothing could be done' then the whole btc system is no good.  The coins must be found for the people who own them, but most of all for the people who want to see a btc future.

uuh no, why you ask?

Source?

Out of curiosity.

Mark Karpelès and his Polish bodyguard Mr.Pawczyński left Tokyo and staying in the Koyo Grand Hotel, closely to the Train station and main highway.  
MT Gox CEO has a black rental BMW 6 series.
http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/3/0/6/330647/4800972.jpg

2-3-1 Honcho
Aoba Ward, Sendai, Miyagi 980-0014
Japan

This doesn't tell me much. If you know Mr. Pawczynski's first name (and ideally his date of birth), this would be helpful.

I only copy past from the website i found.  Why is the bodyguard his name and birth date any importance?   I think a room number will be more interesting, or the BMW license plate?

You can't interrogate a room number or car plates.

Is his cat with him?

Except since this "miracle" is nothing more than a fraud, you've committed a whole other crime, and fraud tolls the statute of limitations.  You are still not entitled to keep the money, and can be imprisoned indefinitely under civil contempt until you disgorge the funds.

well, I'm glad for that, but in the mean time we should have found the money

Attention, known accounts of gox move 180k BTC immobile since 2011;

https://blockchain.info/tx/4ee89f7cf824a85ad5f11d52604ffdebe9f01302bcea8ddec0af450f9185ddf1

Yes
https://blockchain.info/tr/address/1KecDYadohxk8MCDqKF8SBEMhCUNveAsCj
this is good
if this adsress is a MTGox Address

https://blockchain.info/nl/address/12HddUDLhRP2F8JjpKYeKaDxxt5wUvx5nq  :D

But they have again divided into four accounts;

https://blockchain.info/es/address/1NobuZ86rkMkk66nP3DfEUH7WYh4cHU4PS

https://blockchain.info/es/address/1Ewk1sqTMYw41aYgtQiWvuoZbGGa99wHyj

https://blockchain.info/es/address/1GRJycBJMQ41XkCygGKURgkqLd2qkwCQDB

https://blockchain.info/es/address/1QLARqgCkymXrdJheVRoppvqykugKV2b84


¿Have confirmation that the account belongs to gox?

how can you be sure that it s gox adresses and not anyone s else?

The coins are directly linked to known Gox addresses. See reddit for more info.

The coins are split in about half and moved to new addresses immediately after they get 6 confirmations. They are down to around 10k per address now:
https://blockchain.info/address/12Fgt5jTUENHjYu4KtYaz9V7PMbno3ABan
One interesting thing I noticed is that the amounts are exactly what you'd expect if you used the splitBigOutputs() function from the leaked Gox source code to do the splitting:
https://i.imgur.com/wx7IhiM.png

Coincidence or Karpeles using his own code to move the coins?

If anyone is from Japan, please check if MtGox reported the theft to the local police.

If yes, which addresses the stolen coins were sent.

If not, please report the theft based on MtGox's statements. Not sure about how it's done in Japan, but when you report a crime, police is bound by law to look for evidence of the crime (Gox employee interogation inclusive).

I was sure that there is no thief ! So these must be sended to Japan to show them what is going on

Yes, someone should check if the crime of theft was reported by Gox to the police at all.

@ Finnminer nice post and yes coincidence indeed.

You have a point there, looking at the translated version of the reorganization plea I did a search for 'stolen' which hit twice, I could not determine if the language surrounding it was speculation about a crime taking place and a suggestion that a criminal investigation commence; or a formal complaint that they believe a crime took place with the formal request for the criminal investigation.  

So, I agree with you, someone with standing in japan should make the police and/or fed agency criminal complaint.  

This looks really bad.  Anyone with any standing in the bankruptcy should file something IMMEDIATELY before the contents of these addresses get sent through mixers to God knows where.

Because this looks like Gox/Magikarpeles is preparing to abscond.

(Alternately, it could actually have something to do with the bankruptcy authorities themselves, since the feds did something similar with Silk Road funds.  But it should be known why this money is moving around now of all times.)

The coins are now in several hundred new addresses with 300-2000 BTC each. If it's actually using the splitBigOutputs() function they should end up in 30k different addresses holding less than 10 BTC each.

This.

Yes probably u are right, it's really unfortunately for all people who lost btc in that way.

the more the coins are handled the more foot/finger prints are made visible and the more connections could be made

for example, in order to mix you must go to a mixer their computer records will show the coins going in by x isp at y timestamp

that mixer will either cooperate or be materially embroiled in a criminal investigation

now with that isp as the finger print you could look for other places where that isp has engaged other mixers, exchanges, etc ...

eventually the electronic finger prints and foot prints will lead to humans who will need to explain.  If the prints are MK, MG employees, and or relatives of either arrests would be.

AND, whatever "mixer" it would be - it would have to have an at least about equal amount of BTC at the time of mixing to be able to cover any tracks... If 200K + 1K per day go in and 201K go mixed out, this is quite traceable, too.

This.  Nice sleuthing Finnminer.

Understand, though, that if it stops at 30k addresses with 10BTC in each this could be interpreted as a positive sign, as it would mirror what looks like Gox's hot wallet loading procedure.

If it keeps going then I suppose we keep watching, with a sinking feeling.  :-\

Fingerprint-capture every moment of the blockchain now, robotically.  There are many smart people out there and they will follow the coins like in the Pirates(tm) movies, they will never stop analyzing the blockchain.

Also, indeed, if the Goxxies spent their energy hack SHA-256, they would probably have it done long before the BTC blockchain reaches event horizon.  I think the collegiate-papered-cryptohackkids have a new method now, and they have gotten SHA-256 from 24 rounds to 55 rounds or something, that's a doubling in 3 years?  So, indeed the investors have a technical bottled genie now.  I would say bots will subsume and own the BTC blockchain soon, and this future, is being seeded now, with 10% of the coins being "ghostcoins", essentially lost forever?

What future does it portend?  Well, as Yoda would say: "Always in motion is the future."

But at that point in the Jedi tale, Yoda has already massively lied to the kid anyway, LOL.

Anyway, I will hold BTC and other crypto long.  That is my disclaimer.

"Understand, though, that if it stops at 30k addresses with 10BTC in each this could be interpreted as a positive sign, as it would mirror what looks like Gox's hot wallet loading procedure."

I fully agree and that is why I am so excited about this new development.  We can only hope...

Seems like it's mostly finished already. Some branches went all the way down to addresses with less than 30 BTC, while others stopped at over 2000 BTC. Can't really think of any reasonable logic behind it. Mark does seem to like random functions though, so maybe it just randomized how far each branch was divided.

Some branches like this are still going if someone wants to follow the money:
https://blockchain.info/address/1ASkFuM3ZNU7TPqHNuDTpJch22o5FRPXxS

Looks like those coins are partying away in there, oblivious to all the distress they're causing.

That chart is exactly what the customers of MtGox need to be doing.  We have nothing but rumors, "leaked" documents, IRC chats and official legal documents to work with.

But as we all know, every bitcoin transaction can be tracked on the blockchain and those are the only  FACTS!

So far, this is getting me rather excited today.

Yes, keep to facts and evidence. Discard the noise (''leaked'' documents, irc chats, etc.). Just keep tracking coins.

the funny thing about investigation is sometimes patterns reveal evidence that is not otherwise obvious, sometimes 'side conversations' enable words, phrases, and opinions to be heard in different or more enlightening ways, and just like reading the same study material the 4th time extracts the 'a ha' moment the first 3x didn't.

if everyone contributes what they can, how they can, it will all come together

Whistleblower Threatens to Expose Corruption at Bitcoin Foundation
http://valleywag.gawker.com/whistleblower-threatens-to-expose-corruption-at-bitcoin-1538965958/@laceydonohue



If a breathless car chase wasn't cinematic enough to make you care about Bitcoin, how about a whistleblower threatening to publish an expose about corrupt elders and ominously signing off: "You have 72 hours"?

An "entrepreneur and former venture capitalist" who goes by the handle the Two-Bit Idiot declared "war" today in a blog post entitled Coup or Death for the Bitcoin Foundation? The blogger, whose name is Ryan Selkis, previously talked to Fortune's Dan Primack about leaking documents about Mt. Gox. In today's post, he threatened to publish a searing expose on Monday unless two of its board members resign. TBI also claims that the foundation's corporate sponsors "discouraged" him from airing Bitcoin's filthy laundry.

According to TBI, chairman Peter Vessenes and executive director Jon Matonis are not "ethically entitled" to retain their board seats in the Seattle-based non-profit because conflicts of interest and gross negligence. The most damning allegations are related to the disastrous implosion of Mt. Gox. In the early days, Mt. Gox was the largest Bitcoin exchange and a tent pole for the budding economy, hiding questionable practices.

TBI says Vessnes and Matonis got their money out through connections with Mt. Gox CEO Mark Karpeles, while $473 million swirled down the blockchain drain (emphasis mine):

On Monday, I plan to publish a full article which elaborates on these damning facts and much more:

1) The Foundation never once warned Bitcoin investors about keeping deposits in Mt. Gox, despite clear red flags dating back to at least April 2013. Nor did the Foundation craft or advocate for best practices such as technical transparency, deposit audits, or appropriate consumer protection disclosures. This was a colossal failure of leadership.

2) There is evidence that Bitcoin Foundation board members may have had direct access to Mark Karpeles which allowed them to personally deposit and withdraw funds from Mt. Gox, despite persistent delays for other customers.

3) There is a troubling and inappropriate overlap between Peter Vessenes' staff at his private company, CoinLab, and the Bitcoin Foundation's staff, which goes far beyond shared office space.

4) The current leadership has shown a stunning disregard for proper communications with its members. The importance of immediate resignations (rather than gradual) is highlighted by the Board's secret plans to move the Foundation's headquarters to London without input from members and sponsors.

5) Peter Vessenes has had a nine month conflict of interest regarding Mt. Gox given that his company CoinLab was involved in an active multi-million dollar lawsuit against Mark Karpeles and Mt. Gox, following a failed partnership. Both men remained on the board of directors, and the Foundation failed to draft adequate by-laws that would allow them to address situations such as this where directors had material conflicts, which would compromise their ability to act in the best interests of its members.

This egregious behavior and negligence may not be the worst of the information to come. I have been unable to reach representatives of the Foundation for comment on a myriad of other accounting issues related to the treatment of member donations.
True believers like to tout the fact that Bitcoin is intentionally decentralized, so an industry group like the foundation is about as close to an authority figure or overseer as you're going to get. The agency's website says:

Bitcoin Foundation standardizes, protects and promotes the use of Bitcoin cryptographic money for the benefit of users worldwide.

TBI claims Vessenes and Matonis are at fault, rather than the foundation itself. But it's worth noting that both Krebeles and Charlie Shrem, the indicted founder of BitInstant, were formerly board members:


And for better or for worse, with all of its blue-chip sponsors and leading role to date in events such as the Senate Bitcoin hearings and NYDFS BitLicense hearings, the Foundation is the mouthpiece for the entire industry.

Peter Vessenes and Jon Matonis are not scapegoats. They are not innocent bystanders. And they are not ethically entitled to remain in their board seats through later this year.


TBI also claims that the foundation's corporate sponsors told him to keep his mouth shut, but doesn't name said sponsors. This list of platinum, gold, and silver foundation members mainly includes Bitcoin startups. Previous donors to the foundation include Wordpress and Fred Wilson from Union Square Ventures. Among investors, the most prominent and full-throated support has come from Andreessen Horowitz, which recently invested $25 million in Coinbase.

From TBI's blog post:

At this week's Texas Bitcoin Conference, I was fortified by near-unanimous agreement (and, at times, applause) that the current leadership must resign or be forced out of their positions on the Foundation. Yet I have also been warned that I am playing a dangerous game, with cunning and ruthless power brokers. I have been discouraged by corporate sponsors of the Foundation not to make a public stink which would be "counter-productive" and "irresponsible" for Bitcoin. Most would prefer to let the Mt. Gox scandal blow over, but I would rather wipe the slate clean definitively, blood or no.
TBI describes himself as a "truth-teller," making "the business case for #Bitcoin on its journey from speculative investment to world-changing utility" and clearly sees himself as the Edward Snowden of cryptocurrency.

What if someone spends Bitcoin to take him out before he can send documents to The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and others? TBI's got it covered:

If I get hit by a bus this weekend, my lawyers will release it.
If you have any information to share about the Bitcoin Foundation, please email nitasha@gawker.com.

Update: A previous version of this post said TBI was anonymous. His name is Ryan Selkis, as he acknowledged in this interview with Fortune.

I would like to see EDWARD HIMSELF, become the Edward Snowden of cryptocurrency, unless he is a technical dumbshit?  Why does this man get to sit back as "Admin Prime" and not give his in depth opinion about tech in general?

Edward:  In order to remain smart, you need to show your smartness, not just run and hide.  This is hilarious, we have a technical revolution front with a leader who lives in a Marxist country and has ntohing to say about theft in general.

I am not convinced that Edward Snowden has much ability to analyze any fucking thing except his own definitions of America, which I MIGHT share, if he or any of these supposed heroes, would fucking step to the mic and TALK.

Anyway, TBI used to mean Throttle Body Injection like what puts fuel into my Chevy.  Now TBI means Two Bit Idiot, and I like that.  Go man.  Go.  Because when smart people speak up, it becomes obvious how few smart people are in charge.

Its so beautiful  but it makes me feel ;D :'( Honestly been waiting to start seeing the abstract art in bitcoin come to life.

I guess that's the one good thing to come from this goxxing.

It seems that exactly this happened. The addresses that already are down to below 10 BTC have stopped splitting. Others that still contain more are continuing to split. I think this implies pretty strongly that Gox still controls the coins. The good thing is that they still exist. That bad thing is that they chose to lie about it so they probably weren't planning on returning them..

http://www.coindesk.com/gox-money-moving-through-block-chain/


$113m in Gox Money Believed To Be Moving Through Block Chain

Danny Bradbury (@dannybradbury) | Published on March 7, 2014 at 23:24 GMT | Blockchain, Companies, Exchanges, Mt. Gox, News,
 


Large amounts of bitcoins previously handled by Mt Gox, which have lain dormant for years, have started moving on the block chain.

Since the exchange blew up at the end of last month, people have been wondering where the stolen coins went, and have tried to trace some movements between Gox addresses. One participant on the bitcoin talk forum recalled an IRC conversation between Gox CEO Mark Karpeles and various users, which allegedly took place on June 23, 2011.

During their conversation, Karpeles (a.k.a. MagicalTux) offered to demonstrate that the exchange owned large numbers of coins, by sending a uniquely identifiable amount to a given address. He sent 424242.42424242 bitcoins to a specific address beginning with 1eHhgW6vquBY. Sure enough, they showed up.

A few weeks later, that large amount of bitcoins was broken into two smaller amounts. Then, more transactions occurred, peeling off 50,000 bitcoins at a time into separate wallets, possibly as a means of moving them into cold storage.

Most of these 50,000 bitcoin wallets were recombined on 16 November, 2011, into two separate wallets. One of these contained 500,000 bitcoins, while the other contained 50,000.

The 50,000 bitcoin address was created on that date, and was then dormant until July, 2012, when it began receiving small transactions along with several other outputs. However, no coins left that wallet, until today, when its 50,000 bitcoins were sent to another address, as part of outputs from various bitcoin addresses totalling 180,000 bitcoins ($113 million).

Since then, these coins have been rapidly splitting, with coins being subdivided repeatedly. One branch was found to have been splitting every 30 minutes in what appeared to be an automated fashion. This suggests that there may be some code splitting the coins.

We don’t know for certain that the 50,000-bitcoin address is indeed owned by Mt Gox, but it seems likely. The other, larger, wallet went through several transactions, with the bulk of the coins being sent to an address that was verified as Mt Gox-owned on the block chain.

The leaked Mt Gox crisis strategy document claims assets of 2,000 bitcoins, contained in a hot wallet, adding that the cold storage had been wiped out.

Why now?

So, why is this happening now? One explanation is that it makes the coins easier to use for a high volume of transactions. When bitcoins are sent, all the funds held in a particular address are sent, and the ‘change’ – the part that is surplus to requirements – is sent to a change address, usable by the sender. However, the block chain has to confirm that the change has been returned before it can be reused.

If you were to try and send bitcoins to lots of users very frequently from one address containing a lot of bitcoins, then you would have to wait 10 minutes or more for the block chain to confirm your returned change, before conducting your next transaction.

Core bitcoin developer Gregory Maxwell also suggested that this was a Mt Gox transaction, based on interactions that he had with the Mt Gox API.

Maxwell also argued that the splitting behaviour is consistent with a function in the leaked source code from Mt Gox. This suggests that some of the coins have been dropped into the Mt Gox online wallet, and that the system is now automatically breaking them up, he said.

Lost coins cant be moved. Mark Karples has turned himself in.. wtf going on, if he wanted to steal these why turn yourself in. Whos moving the coins.

is it Skynet  ;D

Maybe Skynet took over Gox.

Some scary shit here... havn't read all but someone just took out 40k and 50k from the adresses posted earlier at same time!

https://blockchain.info/address/1P3S1grZYmcqYDuaEDVDYobJ5Fx85E9fE9
https://blockchain.info/address/1cXNTyXj4xPGopfYZNY5xfSM1EPJJvBZV

you propably noticed but iam just saying :d

What does the emperor do when the masses are unhappy (because they were robbed)? You guessed it - the emperor does olympics or other cheap gimmicks to distract the masses.

So you got your Dorian Satoshi Nakamoto or will get something else.


What does the prime minister do when masses are unhappy (because they were robbed)? You guessed it - the prime minister fires the already wealthy minister or a secretary or issues a new regulation or something like that.

So you will be getting a member of TBI fired or not fired, or something like that.

____________________________________________________________________


Don't get distracted. The only source of objective information for you is the blockchain. So far only blockchain will let you find your formerly owned coins.

update, Via reddit



Source:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1zw1xe/blockchain_analysis_required/

If you forget to trace the Fiat heist and subsequently put a dollar claim on the criminals to get them cuffed urgently, all blockchain watching is the real distraction which

enables them to walk away scott free !

You can't trace fiat. You do not have tools to do so (but it would be nice if you had such tools). Only bank clerks and police can do it at the moment.

What bank clerks and police won't do is blockchain analysis (they neither care nor understand).

true, but there we go again with that ancillary mention that may turn out to be a pearl of wisdom in disguise -- 'no one talking about the fiat'
perhaps that is a different line of entry to be considered for authorities

in fact I read of one guy who indicated that he sold his btc, transferred it to fiat, requested a wire but it was never processed going back to October or November

AGREED - KEEP FOLLOWING THE COINS.

To add to this, which may be obvious to some:

1) Coins don't move by themselves. People move them. There is a 850k pool of Bitcoin all connected by one element: they are all lost via MtGox. All it takes is ONE transaction, regardless of size, that has a PERSON attached to it. Anyone trying to use or move even a SATOSHI from this pool is risking exposure due to subsequent / downstream spending. Tough to use 850k when this can happen. The entire Blockchain can be traced back to the first Bitcoin.

2 a) We are following large chunks of 40k, 50, 200k, and 180k Bitcoins. Be careful not to loose track of coin movements in smaller amounts - don't just follow thew 200k when another 500k could be getting moved around in sub 1btc amounts. The 200k itself may be a distraction.

2 b) Do we know the REAL total amount of debt and assets held by MtGox? The leaked Emergency Plan and Application for Civil Rehabilitation appear to be conflicting in the total indebtedness. 750btc + 100 btc vs. 6.5 billion Yen. 200k btc is not 750btc. Why are we lowering our expectations of the Bitcoin protocol. (Yeah, we found 200btc, now we can each get 200btc of 850btc back! We each get 1/4 of our investment back.) I've been under the impression from the technicians that the Bitcoin protocol is better than this. We should expect 100% resolution.

3) Bitcoin is based on a trust-less system, yet, not everyone has a) the ability to learn about every working pieces of the protocol or b0 the time to do so. In the end TRUST is required at some level. TRUST is more valuable than any money, because all money is based on TRUST. For Bitcoin to succeed: the masses must TRUST the entrepreneurs, business owners, politicians and money managers who must TRUST the technicians who must TRUST the protocol and its very source. If the TRUST chain is broken at any level, then the Blockchain is worthless.

4) Sometimes TRUST is broken due to mistakes. TRUST can be repaired, albeit slowly, with WORK and FORGIVENESS.


If there are any technicians that would like to rebuild my trust, feel free to reach out. There are at least three of you that have been very silent in the last few weeks, I assume dealing with the broken TRUST. I hope to regain TRUST from you very soon. I am easy to find, not hiding, you know how to reach me.


To the technicians doing the research, THANK YOU. If funds are retrieved and returned, Bitcoin will have my full support and it will be stronger than ever. Until then TRUST chain is broken.




 

When things start to turn from civil rehabilitation into criminal (or earlier, e.g. when we find someone who can contact Japanese criminal police*), we'll simply give to authorities (police / prosectors and others) a list of addresses / transactions that we suspect have / had the stolen coins.

Then the authorities will turn to exchanges to identify who sold these coins to unrelated buyers / bought back these coins using dark pools.

When authorities have both fiat records and associated / linked bitcoin records / clues, it will be easier for them to connect the dots, finish their investigation quicker, and hopefully we'll know the thuth.

* is it possible to establish who are the detectives at Japanese criminal police that deal with this MtGox's theft?

looks like cancer to me :-\

Additional data to corroborate, delineate, compare, contrast, highlight, and/or provide a pattern


source:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0

June 2011 Mt. Gox Incident
Time: June 19, 2011, 06:00:00 PM ± 1 h (theft), days ensuing (hacks & withdrawals)
Victim: Mt. Gox (some claim also customers)
Status: Thief uncaught
Amount:
Stolen by thief: 2000 BTC[4]
Additional withdrawn from Mt. Gox: 643.27 BTC[5] (lower bound)
Total: Lower bound 2643.27 BTC
Equivalent USD: 46970.91 $ (trades on Mt. Gox not reliable at the time)
Equivalent in June 2013 BTC: 473 BTC
Transactions: none released officially
Mt. Gox, then the leading BTC/USD exchange service, suffered a severe breach as a consequence of an ownership change. The sale conditions involved a share of revenue to be remitted to the seller. To audit this revenue, the seller was permitted an account with administrator access.[4]

The seller's administrator account was hacked by an unknown process. The priveleges were then abused to generate humungous quantities of BTC. None of the BTC, however, was backed by Mt. Gox. The attackers sold the BTC generated, driving Mt. Gox BTC prices down to cents. They then purchased the cheap BTC with their own accounts and withdrew the money. Some additional money was stolen by non-attacking traders capitalizing on the dropping price and withdrawing in time, including toasty, a member of BitcoinTalk.

Mt. Gox resolved the hack by reverting trades to a previous version. Many customers claim they have lost money from this reversion, but Mt. Gox claims it has reimbursed all customers fully for this theft. After the incident, Mt. Gox shut down for several days.[6]

The event's scale was widely disputed; some report a theft of almost 500000 BTC due to related account hacking. However, these reports are sparse and disreputable. Closer inspection puts the losses at closer to 2500 BTC.

Aside from the direct damages of the theft, the hack involved a database leak. Some weaker passwords were used to conduct the relatively more severe Mass MyBitcoin Thefts.

Mass MyBitcoin Thefts
NB: Not to be confused with the far more severe MyBitcoin Theft.
Time: 2011-06-20 through 2011-06-21
Victim: MyBitcoin users with weak account passwords
Amount: Exactly 4019.42939378 BTC
Equivalent in June 2013 BTC: 712 BTC
Transactions: all to 1MAazCWMydsQB5ynYXqSGQDjNQMN3HFmEu[7]
Users with weak passwords on MyBitcoin who used the same password on Mt. Gox were in for a surprise after the June 2011 Mt. Gox Incident allowed weakly-salted hashes of all Mt. Gox user passwords to be leaked. These passwords were then hacked on MyBitcoin and a significant amount of money lost.[8]

MyBitcoin estimates indicate 1% of MyBitcoin users were affected.[8] Users that were not affected would be later stolen from anyways, due to the subsequent MyBitcoin Theft.

MyBitcoin Theft
Time: Unknown time in July 2011 (claimed it was a process)
Victim: MyBitcoin & customers
Status: Thief unknown, planned shutdown suspected (disputed theft)
Suspects: “Tom Williams”, likely pseudonym (founder of MyBitcoin)
Amount: Exactly 78739.58205388 BTC
Equivalent USD: 1110544 $ (wt. avg, definitely >$1M, rounded to nearest $)
Equivalent in June 2013 BTC: 10600 BTC
Transaction information: none
Little information was released about the MyBitcoin theft, however, many argue that Tom Williams ran it as a scam (and was not a theft per se). In terms of both dollars and bitcoins, this was by far the largest theft, however, it is possible it was simply a scam. Although MyBitcoin offered to release its code as a gift to the community, it failed to follow through on that promise. In the months ensuing, some evidence has been uncovered supporting mortgage broker Bruce Wagner; however, any evidence is inconclusive.

The theft resulted in the closure of MyBitcoin, which was once a successful Bitcoin company in Bitcoin's early days.

Bitomat.pl Loss
Type: Loss
Time: 2011-07-26
Victim: Bitomat.pl
Status: Coins destroyed (no thief)
Amount: Estimate 17000 BTC (likely estimate/lower bound, no tx due to technical reason)
Equivalent USD: 236000 $ (rounded to nearest thousand)
Equivalent in June 2013 BTC: 2290 BTC
Bitomat.pl, during a server restart, had its remote Amazon service that housed the wallet wiped. No backups were kept. Mt. Gox later bailed bitomat.pl out, and neither customers nor original owners suffered any loss from the incident.


October 2011 Mt. Gox Loss
Type: Loss
Time: 2011-10-28T21:11 (UTC) [blockchain time, off by up to three hours]
Victim: Mt. Gox
Status: Coins destroyed (no thief)
Amount: Exactly 2609.36304319 BTC
Equivalent USD: 8115.12 $ (wt. avg price)
Equivalent in June 2013 BTC: 82.0 BTC
Transactions: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. Gox fully reimbursed customers after this incident.

Just to throw a spanner in the works - is there a possibility that these active coins being tracked were used for staff payments and/or executive bonuses?

I could understand staff entitlements being handed over to a separate entity that was created by or related to Gox such as an employee fund. I'm not sure what staff entitlement protection laws are like in Japan (perhaps someone can elaborate on that) but if this is the case it would explain why such funds are not included as a Gox asset.

In addition to shielding funds from bankruptcy procedures it might also serve as an excellent means of ensuring the silence of ex-employees who don't want to risk the loss of their entitlements.

Thoughts?

There is no possibility they used customer funds to pay employees first. 

Thats possible, or they pay mr Pawczyński whit it.

New mtgox BTC movements on coinsight, some 70 000 BTC were moved.


http://www.coinsight.org/mtgox.html

entirely possible,

I'm told, one of the primary reasons Mark vehemently defends his employee more than the funds trusted in his care is because many of them know more that they think, and some of them were saying much more than he would wanted.

who are the employees there are many video shots of different people each should be interviewed



aces,

someone has decided to record every one of the transactions associated with a Mt Gox address


great post
 

I posted this for hackers https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=508162.msg5611649#msg5611649 in case they want to investigate more

https://i.imgur.com/OgtJYcY.jpg

This doesn't really prove there was insider trading / withdrawals (although I tend to believe it was some).
Could have been just experienced traders who recognized a wave B and sold to bag holders.
Not on MtGox, where they couldn't have cashed out, but on other exchanges.
I posted about the top of wave B in January and of course I was laughed at by the uber-bulls.

And it appears marks site is offline now.

Here's a mirror of the leak:

https://mega.co.nz/#!0VliDQBA!4Ontdi2MsLD4J5dV1-sr7pAgEYTSMi8rNeEMBikEhAs

Be careful opening the .exe (do it in a sandbox).

It is just a hypothesis that I came up with (after I concluded that the official story makes no sense whatsover) that screems to be either confirmed or debunked with evidence.

I think what we are finding is that Mt Gox actually thought everyone would simply walk away from this as they have walked away from each and every one of the other events of like kind that have occurred in the past.   

After examining gox prices for other than usd pairs, I think you are completely wrong. On other pairs market at gox behaved properly, except for already discussed btcusd and newly examined pairs: bitcoin/rubble and bitcoin/yen. Have a look. We more or less indentified new (fiat-related) dots - this is when gox was being drained out of fiat).

https://i.imgur.com/Z1YUaB8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Eca1mNU.jpg

MtGox is way bigger though than any of the people who have failed in the past. And BTC is worth so much more now.

LOL, how can I be completely wrong if I admitted believing there was some insider trading / withdrawal. You are taking this too personal...
The ruble chart is new info, looks suspicious indeed. But how could it be? Such high volume with little slippage?

With the rubble and yen charts (confronted with usd chart) you now have a proof there were insider withdrawals (not experienced traders catching wave B or whatever you think you saw and posted about in January).

I apologize for overreacting and using a phrase ''you were completely wrong''. In fact you weren't completely wrong.

OK. I find something else fishy with the ruble chart. IMO it would have been impossible to get such high volume with little slippage.
To me, the green candle means that it was a huge (for the ruble market) ask wall, and it was bought into. Is this correct?
If so, who suddenly had so many rubles required for the transaction? Maybe the seller and buyer were acting together.
The buyer still had some time to withdraw bitcoins before the shit hit the fan.

It just occured to me. In view of the evidence* that:
- Gox was being drained out of fiat in early December (therefore someone knew Gox would collapse),
- Gox was being drained out of bitcoins in late December (therefore someone knew Gox would collapse)
the whole story of Mark Karpeles about how the hack started in the beginning of February, is simply a lie.


It was a lie Mark Karpeles told to the Japanese court and with this lie he managed to turn things into civil rehabilitation thus escaping criminal charges.

Wouldn't it be sensible that someone who speaks Japanese contacts Japanese prosecutors to press criminal charges against Mark Karpeles (at least for lying to the court)? The more we wait the more evidence gets destroyed  ???


* Looking for someone to confirm this evidence or debunk it

To me it looks like Gox had rubbles in their account (perhaps Mark Karpeles bought them in anticipation to flee to Russia) and through some IT gimmicks streamed btcusd buy orders into rubbles ??? Maybe the seller and the buyer worked together. I have no idea why no slippage on a dead bitcoin/rubble market.

It is for the prosectutors to find out.

This looks criminal. I have no doubt about it. Passport should be taken away from Mark Karpeles and he himself should be placed in custody.

MtGox's exchange always worked like this. There didn't have to be a RUR buyer, MtGox's bank would have done the conversion and allowed people with USD to buy the bitcoins, and seller be paid in RUR.

Okay, if Mark Karpeles is found dead it's not because of Russian and Japanese mafia. Russian mafia and Japanese mafia managed to withdraw their assets on time, which we saw on yen and rubble charts. How nice  :D

Albanians will get him first..

Some major arbitrage between btc-e and gox is probably what it was (by someone inside one of the exchanges).

Are you saying that the transaction was in USD, but because after the transaction completed, the seller converted USD to RUR,
the transaction appeared in the RUR market? I find more likely that the buyer converted USD to RUR, knowing that on the RUR market
he would be able to buy with little slippage and cash out via bitcoins in January. As for the cashing out via RUR and JPY, these may have
taken some time to complete. AFAIK the JPY withdrawals worked until these big transactions happened and Gox became empty for good.
Anyway, I think that a Japanese prosecutor investigating MtGox should find out who withdrew RUR and JPY from these transactions.

Interesting article on Techcrunch:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/09/mt-gox-hack-allegedly-reveals-bitcoin-balances-customer-account-totals/

According to the article:

Anonymous hackers have defaced Mt.Gox CEO Mark Karpeles’ blog and have uploaded a data dump of customer data that, according to users with accounts on the site, is accurate. A Reddit user created an Excel spreadsheet [mirror] of anonymized user accounts with balances, and many current Mt.Gox users have found their balances present.

The text of the post reads [NSFW]:

*** SAVE THIS POST, MIRROR THE FILES, REPOST, SHARE AND KEEP THIS DATA AVAILABLE ***

http://blog.magicaltux.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/MtGox2014Leak.zip

http://89.248.171.30/MtGox2014Leak.zip

First and foremost, this is not Mark Karpeles. Fuck that bitch-titted motherfucker.
It’s time that MTGOX got the bitcoin communities wrath instead of Bitcoin Community getting Goxed. This release would have been sooner, but in spirit of responsible disclosure and making sure all of ducks were in a row, it took a few days longer than would have liked to verify the data.
Above you will finding download link and a mirror used without asking from Mark Karpeles very own blog.magicaltux.net.
Included in this download you will find relevant database dumps, csv exports, specialized tools, and some highlighted summaries compiled from data. Keeping in line with fucking Gox alone, no user database dumps have been included.
Repost and share this info before it’s gone. Lots of people, including us, lost money and coins. Upvote this post.
We stole no bitcoins. There were none to steal. If you want to donate, you can keep us full of pizzas and beers by sending coins here, 1859rayqN1X7DYjD1BrAHm4vaQxoUhhzsN .
Balance SUM for ALL USERS by currency.
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
Currency: AUD Balance: 924,124.65121
Currency: BTC Balance: 951,116.21905382 <– That fat fuck has been lying!!
Currency: CAD Balance: 320,184.36558
Currency: CHF Balance: 99,487.07308
Currency: CNY Balance: 297,775.78994
Currency: DKK Balance: 112,264.56207
Currency: EUR Balance: 5,634,625.59531
Currency: GBP Balance: 921,892.96793
Currency: HKD Balance: 740,519.14894
Currency: JPY Balance: 384,885,150.13700
Currency: NOK Balance: 91,346.00305
Currency: NZD Balance: 58,224.95320
Currency: PLN Balance: 1,645,194.67364
Currency: RUB Balance: 551,162.54477
Currency: SEK Balance: 15,335.84383
Currency: SGD Balance: 43,193.59706
Currency: THB Balance: 666,464.33497
Currency: USD Balance: 30,611,805.67481
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
Total BTC Deposits: 19,065,241.307202
Total BTC Withdrawl: 18,563,466.149383
————————————
BTC Difference: 501,775.157819
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

The most important number, obviously, is the 951,116.21905382 balance. As you recall, Mt.Gox filed for bankruptcy while stating a 850,000 BTC loss. This would suggest Karpeles’ estimates were off by a large margin. Whether all of this is accurate or not is an entirely different manner. What the leak does show us is how easy it was to grab nearly all of Mt.Gox’s user data as well as how hardened Karpeles’ blog was. Furthermore, the files contain the app Mt.Gox admins used to manage transfers. A screenshot appears below.



Who hacked Mt.Gox? The leak contains some clues. A visit to the above-mentioned mirror brings a link to the zip file and a note: “I hated working with you. You deserve everything you get for what you did.”

an interesting article on karpeles

http://www.dailytech.com/Bitcoin+King+Pt+II+Mt+Goxs+Dictator+Karpels+Proves+Tragically+Flawed/article34452.htm

1. From https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20140228-announcement_eng.pdf MtGox's statement:

At the start of February 2014, illegal access through the abuse of a bug in the bitcoin system resulted in an increase in incomplete bitcoin transfer transactions and we discovered that there was a possibility that bitcoins had been illicitly moved through the abuse of this bug. As a result of our internal investigation, we found that a large amount of bitcoins had disappeared. Although the complete extent is not yet known, we found that approximately 750,000 bitcoins deposited by users and approximately 100,000 bitcoins belonging to us had disappeared. We believe that there is a high probability that these bitcoins were stolen as a result of an abuse of this bug and we have asked an expert to look at the possibility of a criminal complaint and undertake proper procedures.

One would expect that MtGox reported a possible crime of theft to the police to be investigated, right?


2. From the same MtGox's statement:

Regarding the filing of a complaint or damages report, an expert has been mandated and investigations have started. We will make all efforts to ensure that crimes are punished and damages recovered. Further we will fully cooperate with inquiries from authorities and investigations related to this matter, in Japan or overseas.

It doesn't say the crime was reported to the authorities, it doesn't say who mandated the expert and who is in charge of investigations (Karpeles himself, a police detective, who?). It doesn't say MtGox is co-operating with authorities, it only says mtGox will co-operate in the future provided the authorities will inquire.


3. From the same MtGox's statement:

(4) Supervisor:   Nagashima Ohno & Tsunematsu, Attorney-at-law, Nobuaki Kobayashi
(5) Investigator: idem (the same as the above)

From what I understand, the supervisor and the investigator is one person: Mr. Nobuaki Kobayashi from a private law firm Nagashima Ohno & Tsunematsu - he is the mandated expert in charge of the investigation. LOL.

Given the above, I assume:
- the authorities (police) were not notified about the crime of theft that Karpeles claims might have occured at MtGox
- the investigator is not an independent trained detective, but some attorney (a clerk probably chosen by and paid by Karpeles)


4. We need someone who speaks Japanese to find out if police investigation in the matter of theft started or not.


5. From the same MtGox's statement:

Please refrain from contacting the office of the supervisor/investigator.

I wonder why should anyone refrain from contacting the investogator  ???

He's not part of Law Enforcement. He's "investigating" the bankruptcy stuff. It's a weird title but he is not what you think he is.

We have no infoabout a criminial investigation by the police regarding the theft of the coins. Marks priorities are warning people of spam and chasing the two hackers who hacked him LOL. Who cares about 500k missing coins?

Get that Satoshi guy, he speaks native Japanese but his family says he is a real asshole.  [shrug]

It's weird how little help is being given, this whole thing is just pure crime, they aren't even pretending to try imo.

Yeah, it is this guy: http://www.noandt.com/en/lawyers/nbk.php

From a chat on IRC ##mtgox-chat:

17:20:41   Aido  how can a crime be reported in Japan?
17:20:50   yerp  easy Aido
17:20:58   yerp  are you in Tokyo?
17:21:07   Aido  nope, that's the problem.
17:21:32   yerp  Do you want to report gox or Mark?
17:21:38   yerp  or are you talking about reporting the hackers
17:22:48   Aido  Mark has stated that they were looking to file a criminal complaint regarding theft of coins. This has not been done, should it be?
17:23:31   yerp  Aido: he could of done it, but he won't tell us.   A few of us have already filed ones separately in Tokyo against Mark/Gox.
17:24:00   sangbr  Aido: agree, we should do it instead... as our coins were stolen right?
17:24:03   Aido  yerp: OK, thanks. That answers my question.

Do we know which precinct -> police officers and prosecutors are handling / investigating against Mark/Gox?

Do we know if these police officers and / or prosecutors speak English?

Do we know what measures were taken against Mark/Gox (passport taken away, etc.)?

There's a rumor that the remaining Gox coins are being anonymized, possibly using CoinJoin. Anyone can confirm this?

coinjoin and or any other company that is found to be complicit in any activity to defraud the bitcoin community will be subject to both the community and or various authorities

in the case of mixers if you can determine that any such funds have entered such mixer it shall be sufficient evidence to hold such mixer up for public condemnation.

coinjoin is not a company, but a type of bitcoin transfer. You can do that without any company cooperating https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0

The fight against money laundering goes on on all fronts.  Call it what you will, but there will always be tumblers and laundromats to wash the shit from people's undies haha.  Washing out blood and shit from clothing actually has made fortunes.  All laundries serve good purpose, because they do not ask where blood or shit comes from.  :D  but you are right man, screw the coin thieves, they aren't like pizzarias and chinese restaurants laundering cash, this is way way worse.  And yet, the fact that the FBI has locked up 10% of bitcoin without much ado, means coin tumbling will remain a viable defense for anyone who sees the FBI for what it is: A non Constitutional entity which has no business stealing the world's wallets.  So, until the FBI stands up and become responsible for their thefts, and also the fraud of the drug war be repudiated, then maybe regular people can feel safe, but not today.  So, tumblers are still good and I want them to work, not because I am a dogshit coinstealing thief, but because I would rather let the thief get away and protect the 100 innocents who he doesn't care about, and whose coins also get robbed/locked away.  So, it is complicated but yes my coinbrother, speak your rage and solutions, the audience is listening.

thanks for the correction,  given what I read about coinjoin at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0  such action simply provides additional corroborating documentation

 

Just by the evidence I see on this one thread so far I have already determined that it was EXTREMELY easy for Mt Gox to have GIVEN IN to the enormous temptation to steal the funds from himself.  He saw so many scams, he saw it go uncorrected, and unpunished for years.  He clearly wrestled with the good and bad thoughts for quite some time, but probably found himself siding with bad more often than good.  It's very likely that this was his wacky retirement plan since the last time he screwed the community.  

But here's the thing, now that a half billion is gone, the system is lined up for BTC-e to be next, and to take it to a higher level.   But unless they do it within the next few months it will likely be no more btc because the market is shrinking down to nothing.  

Who would think $800+ would be the high for 2014 when in 2013 projections were $50K+ btc for 2014?  

The system simply cannot tolerate any more mass blunders or plunders, that's why the money must be found AND the exchanges must initiate massive change.

I agree with your salient analysis, but would also add this bit:  BTC-e isn't the same because they have other crypto, I mean, I have very little BTC there but I do have a few LTC there.  So your comparison does bear a bit more discussion, but I am not worried about btc-e because their product is and was far superior to Gox imo.  I never used Gox but a tiny bit, never verified.  But I do use BTC-e and I have no problem with them. 

But your point is valid, how much outright theft (even if by the holy FBI themslefes) can a blockchain bear?

Oh well, even if BTC goes south I have divested into other blockchains as well, I believe in cryptocoin so really it is just a question of where the money flows.  I wouldn't be surprised also, if the BTC blockchain is suddenly managed by better people.  I suspect they might fight to bring back SR?  I myself felt that BTC was synonymous with freedom but also there needs to be a self-policing factor, like what they tried to do by hahaha supposedly threatening some dude's life.  Well, that's kinda okay if it was the dude who stole 800k coins from Gox, let that asshole be cut down slowly.  But also the self policing is NOT transparent, so it is like SR = freedom = black market money ...And now that's not only over, but the gag orders and lawyer-feast is causing all coins to be snatched up or captured by law enforcement actors.

I don't agree that this was his retirement plan, lol.  He'd have to be as stupid as fuck to think that.  I think he is acting like a captured pawn, totally unafraid so long as he obeys the cops who hold his nutsack.  Just like Sabu who got turned right around and used like a little bitch and then what? 

I appreciate how you pointed out that he would have been able to watch the previous fiascos and think to himself, "Hmmm..."  Haha, you really described that to a t.  It is possible, but I just think he's being weak and cooperating with the strength and the strength is the FBI prosecuting what they call "The Holy Drug War of Earth 21st Century".  They have the power to snatch up another 1 million bitcoins in a similar way.  I bet in the end it might be tremendously profitable for some clever rogue agent or lawyer or gangster.  Yes my friend, you make great points about how crime goes unpunished on this world.  It sure does.

My friend when btc catches a cold, litecoin get's pneumonia, most other coins are either dead or on life-support.    

Trust is what enables the protocol to scale, without the trust mechanism only a few tech-heads around the world will use the protocol, via P2P, OT, and the like.

None of that is worth VC money, or attractive to associated service companies ... long story short, if the system wasn't created with built-in trust, isn't reinforced by trust, or trust cannot be guaranteed then it will never scale.  

The BTC community, and by extension the whole cryptocurrency industry must prove that trust reasonably exists within the btc system for it to survive.

If done right, the cryptocurrency industry can produce TRILLIONAIRES not just millionaires, or billionaires.  
 

So true, thanks very much for saying it.

Hey Loozik, after reading some of your posts in different threads for me you sound rather keen in bringing light into the real OFFICIAL situation in Japan.
Today I have written two letters to both of the defending attorneys of Mt.Gox and i would really like you to do the same.
They must nur neglect their duty to answer you general questions about the Mt.Gox-case, i.e. whether there was already some offcial claim at Japanese authorities or not.

I totally admit, that we have to make sure, that some offcials are already involved, since concerning the lies Karpeles is only amenable to law not to us (the community) and he can simply proceed lying to people as long as they are no official persons of Japanese law.

I am keen to be informed about FACTUAL situation of what happened and what happens.

1. For many months I had a theory that problems at Gox were caused by Gox being an aquisition target and I defended Karpeles and Gox. I thought all these Kolin Burges guys were just paid by someobody who wanted to take over Gox in a hostile way: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=465071.msg5157547#msg5157547 When two-bit-idiot released the recovery plan I simply laughed - you don't write recovery plans like this! One page of financial data. LOL. This recovery plan was a fake - it couldn't have been written by an employee of an advisory firm. There should have been many pages with financial data (including projections). If you ever had anything to do with financial analysis, banking, accounting, you'd new it was a fake (ask a friend who works in banking). The recovery plan looked as if written by a five year old.

2. Then shit came out and trading was halted. The ''official'' story was published by Mark Karpeles on Gox's website (possible hack and theft). At first I wanted TBF to investigate this hack: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494146.0;all as I really believed there was a hack. As I was evaluating the charts however, I concluded that most of the assets were already gone before the supposed hack happened.

3. Naturally, when you arrive at the conclusion that you were lied to / that the official story was incorrect, you - if you are inquisitive - you try to re-create the factual story based on facts and evidence (ideally) within your knowledge. If you don't have facts and evdence, you look for them. If you can't find it, you make conspiracy theories.

4. Evidence / facts / reasonings were:
- a massive flood of ''leaks'' and ''evidence'' happened - my gut feeling is that if you are a hacker, you want to keep your operation small; you don't create lots of documents that someone can trace back to you and you do not leak them coincidently when your hack happens, therefore there was not a hack; leaks and evidences were produced to cover somebodys' asses;
- chart analysis led me to conclude there was a transfer of assets out of Gox ahead of the supposed hack and theft;
- apart from eliminating unknown hackers, I also eliminated governments: hacking to steal is not their modus operandi (they extort wealth, not steal wealth);
- the only conclusion was that Gox was drained of fiat and coins by insiders and that Gox collapse was orchestrated in advance by Mark's friends, and that these leaks were a distraction to blind us from what was happening and from what would be happening.

5. Have you ever met conflicting politicians in your life? They quarell with each other in the parliament, they sue each other in front of the cameras. But they do not quarell in private lives. They are friends in private lives. They only run a show for you to decide which of them represents you better, they run the show with one goal in their mind: to get your money.

6. What if the quarells between guys from TBF were fake / staged as as well? What if Karpeles and TBF guys are in fact friends in private lives? What would their goal be I wonder? What if there never was a real conflict of interest between members of TBF? - if these assumptions are true, then - conspiracy theory - at some point in time one could expect that masses would be robbed...

7. When masses are robbed by politicians, there are always calls for removing the bad old filthy generation of politicians. And these calls are answered - old greedy politicians leave the stage with cases full of cash and retire happily, and the younger politicians who supposedly opposed the old ones make it to the top. Then after a few years the story is repeated.

8. What if TBF is just a show for the masses?




Have you written these letter in Japanese? Are you a native speaker?

Nope, I am not. My aunt and my uncle are. They both are living in Tokyo, but I doubt, that they have ever heard about BTC, despite maybe in the recent newspaper-history.
I wrote these letters to the Mt.Gox-lawyers, which have an English impressum and contact information on their website. So I must believe, that they are familiar to this language...

What is the difference between communities conspiracies and yours?

1. Community conspiracy theories and non-conspiracy theories are all built with the following parameter:
There is a conflict of interest between TBF members = TRUE


2. My conspiracy theory is built with the following parameter:
There is a conflict of interest between TBF members = FALSE


__________________________________________________

People who create conspiracy theories are often described as fruitcakes. I think in most cases they are fruitcakes.

When you steal USD 5,000 you probably do not have to conspire. When you steal USD 5,000,000 you probably have to conspire with someone. When you steal USD 500,000,000 there is no way you can do it without conspiring with many people.

Mark Karpeles owning a gold egg laying goose, not willing to accept help from TBF-circle guys who wanted to make his exchange safer? Hackers stealing USD 500,000,000? Come on ...

Well, it would make sence, if there were only few members in the TBF. But there is a whole pile of members and you really believe, none of them would get cold feet now and would bail out by now?

Please remember, this is only a conspiracy theory. As most conspiracy theories this one is possibly incorrect.

This theory was created because:
- the official MtGox story is plain false in view of facts gathered so far
- the non-official story (Karpeles stole himself or allowed the hack to happen) repeated by some of TBF-circle guys is supported by an orgy of evidence (please see ''Minority report'' to know what I mean by an orgy of evidence) planted by TBF-circle guys themselves, created by them (irc chats between them and Mark -knowingly or unknowingly they themselves had created ''evidence'' that supports their present story) or planted by people they know.

Come one, someone had to sooner or later come up with a conspiracy story in which there are actors from TBF circles.

True, but I doubt that would be able to plan such an amount of subtle details in the first place.
However, if this was really true and so many ppl were involved, there should be at least some coward, who ist fearfully observing the situation and who will bail out. Dont you think?

First of all, this is just a conspiracy theory (therefore I used no names). This theory is probably completely wrong.

You know what, if I were to steal 0.5 billion I would make sure there were many details and that they were subtle  ;D although I wouldn't have been so stupid to have a recovery plan written by a five year old.

Yap, but it was no 0.5billion one year before. This means, they must have started it with so much effort long before, where BTC were not worth so much USD.
On the other hand, if they prepared it only in the last year, why did we not recognize the sudden "dissappearing" of BTC in the blockchain?

Whether my conspiracy theory (with some of the TBF-circle guys being actors in it) is correct or incorrect, the collapse of Gox must have been planned long before.

How can this plan unfold? With ''there is a conflict of interest between TBF guys'' switched from TRUE to FALSE, you can expect that there will be attempt to help Mark Karpeles.

E.g. a story will be created that he was kidnapped or forced to give up private keys (he is French after all, you should expect a French to give up). A proof will be found to support this story (a number of prominent TBF-circle guys had already posted on dangers of being kidnapped and that they were working on a solution, etc.)

It will be fun to watch all this  ;D

Hahahaha, this at least has been proven several times  :D

However, with the recent new making such big rounds, it would be pretty unlikely but also frustrating, if no further revelations would follow.
At this point we can at least already say, that Mt.Gox was lying several times, as you already pointed out.

May I ask you a different question?
Have there been any news about the report of "cold wallets" after the DB-leak was published?
I mean, it is still unclear and maybe already forgotten, how    purportedly all bitcoins could simply "disappear" (as MtGox state that day) with the most of them laying on cold wallets... Are there any news, which I maybe missed at some point?

If you had 200 000 BTC on your own and had a successful growing business that makes around 50 000 BTC a year, why would you bother stealing 650 000 BTC from your own customers?
Is that really worth being hated by hundreds of thousands of creditors, pursued by many juridictions and probably chased down by some very angry customers? Don't think so.

This is why this theory isn't plausible, you'd have to be completely retarded to make such a heist.

That's why Karpeles should be questioned by the criminal police.



I know nothing about it.

If I had 200 000 BTC I wouldn't steal. Did Karpeles have 200 000 BTC?



My story is a fruitcake-type of conspiracy story. You would need to be retarded to believe it. The story was created simply by switching one parameter from true to false. You can create a number of such stories simply by switching values of certain parameters. You can easily come up with a fruitcake-type of story that the pope is satosi nakamoto himself.

But you would also need be retarded to believe MtGox story and the story told by other guys who support their stories by evidence either produced by themselves or released by themselves or released by their friends.

Having read the entire thread and many other on this subject I have come to a single and irrefutable conclusion and that is I now want to eat some fruitcake.

You'd have to be completely retarded to run a "business" the way Gox was run even given their own story.  It's well established that Karpeles is completely retarded.  So the issue here isn't whether Mark Karpeles is the biggest fucking idiot in the history of fucking and of idiots, but whether he's also a crook.

hahahahaa  ...


dude, where have you been?  I thought for sure you would be one of the main investigators

Lol I have been trying to buy some mining hardware. Honestly have you been over there? Its like every company is manned by and army of cloned Marks its horrible.

I have been dropping in and out of threads and keeping any eye on some wallet movements, posting what they are doing but honestly feel a bit out of my depth. I'm still learning the basics of block-chain forensics.  In short seems like where ever you look if it had been near gox its just splitting all over the place into fresh wallets stopping then splitting again into more fresh wallets.

Also been looking into lawyers etc but what I think is really important for all of us right now while we can do nothing but watch the chain is finding ways to protect ourselves from Identity theft.

Lets face it gox is a mess and somewhere 0.5 mil of us have KYC docs and if mark cant set up cold storage for btc what kind of protection did he have in place for our docs?

Also trying to find a bridge to the right department out in Japan. I mean our boys here are great in number and picking apart any info they can get their hands on.. how do we get this data to them?  As yet not heard of anyone that's got a bridge up...anyone know of one ?

every little bit counts, whatever you can do, in whatever capacity, some are looking at this or that, some are taking to him, her, or them, just the analysis of info is also a contribution.






Here is some good news for ya:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-bitcoin-karpeles-idUSBREA2A1VM20140311?feedType=RSS


(Reuters) - A U.S. federal judge on Tuesday temporarily froze the U.S. assets of Mt. Gox chief Mark Karpeles and allowed alleged victims of the shuttered bitcoin exchange to demand evidence of what they claim is a massive fraud.

The market for the digital currency was rocked last month when Mt. Gox, once the world's largest bitcoin exchange, ceased operations, and soon after filed for bankruptcy. Mt. Gox said it may have lost 750,000 bitcoins, worth hundreds of millions of dollars, in a hacking attack.

The freeze on Karpeles' assets, issued by Judge Gary Feinerman in Chicago, also applies to Mt. Gox's U.S. affiliate and the Japanese parent company, Tibanne, according to Christopher Dore, an Edelson attorney who represents U.S. customers of the bitcoin exchange.

The judge's order did not apply to the Tokyo-based Mt. Gox KK, which was shielded from litigation after it filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan and the United States.

Mt. Gox suspended withdrawals on February 7, leaving customers unable to recover their funds.

In a bankruptcy hearing on Monday, parties suing Mt. Gox said there are growing concerns that Karpeles moved millions of dollars of bitcoins in recent days based on information gleaned from the Internet.

Dore represents Gregory Greene, an Illinois resident, who brought a proposed class action over what he claims is a massive fraud. Mt. Gox blamed the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars in bitcoins on a flaw in the software algorithm that underlies the digital currency.

"The main thing we hope to achieve is to finally see what the web of things that Karpeles has put together over the last few years and to start unwinding it as to where things are and what happened," said Dore.

Bitcoin is bought and sold on a peer-to-peer network independent of central control. Its value soared last year, and the total worth of bitcoins minted is now about $7 billion.

Investors were warned on Tuesday that the lure of a quick profit trading the volatile currency should not blind them to bitcoin's risk of theft, fraud and significant losses, according to an alert by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority.

Dore said the judge's order freezing Karpeles' assets will expire in 14 days, when the parties return to court to decide if it should be extended.

John Murphy, a Baker McKenzie attorney for Mt. Gox KK, the bankrupt company, declined to comment. Dore said the U.S. affiliate, Karpeles and Tibanne were not represented at the hearing.

The case is Gregory Greene v Mt. Gox Inc et al, U.S. District Court, Northern District of Illinois, No. 14-01437

(Reporting by Tom Hals in Wilmington, Delaware; editing by Andrew Hay)

The same should be done in Japan + Mark Karpeles arrested.

Anyone can verify the bankruptcy protection laws in USA and Japan?

In many parts of the world the owner of the company can't have a criminal past to apply for brakrupt protection. It seems Mark has a charge for fraud in France.

That is very interesting on multiple fronts.  Could you elaborate further, perhaps indicate the charge, story, accusation, include dates, amounts, etc ...

thanks

Fun fact:

If you browse to 19vLTw3JM1zxcRbreyKkGuR8qejbj2dV59 on blockchain, you can read a gib fat warning on top of the page

Some interesting data:

http://mark-karpeles.com/m.php or mirror http://lookup.mtgoxleaks.org/m.php

Data from recent and old 2011 leaks merged together

http://gawker.com/does-mt-goxs-ceo-have-a-secret-history-of-online-payme-1534752110

Great, thanks, I will post the info from the link so that all could read it, also to have it before it disappears or changes.

"In the wake of Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox announcing that it lost $473 million worth of the virtual currency, many people who saw their money disappear have called for CEO Mark Karpeles to be imprisoned. Well, funny thing: it wouldn't necessarily be the first time Karpeles has been arrested for fraud.

As pointed out to Gawker by a tipster who wishes to remain anonymous, Karpeles seems to discuss a past arrest concerning "payment systems on the internet" in a 2006 post on his blog Magical Tux. The post, like all on the blog Karpeles links to in his Twitter bio, is in French, but the tipster translated the relevant section on his personal Tumblr:

Indeed, during my misspent youth, I made a huge, huge mistake. Enough silliness that I found myself locked into custody and brought temporarily placed in the "mousetrap" (souricière: possibly "n.f. (pol.): 'Baited trap' laid by the forces of law-and-order."). This was followed by an investigation of more than a year, which eventually ended in a trial.

I will not give too much detail about what I did wrong, just say it concerns payment systems on the Internet. I spent two years taking risks becoming larger, perhaps because it was an exciting side … whatever, I ended up getting arrested (in rather bizarre circumstances, noting that when I was arrested, I was just in a police station to file a complaint for something else). Anyway, I was released four days later and placed under "judicial review". Basically I did not have the right to leave France and I had to go regularly to the courthouse to speak to someone who was going to see if I lived in "the right way".

...

In the end, the trial was not concluded too bad for me (3 months suspended sentence disappearing after 5 years, and nothing in the criminal record).
A Google translate for the blog post returns the same story, albeit in less smooth English.

According to Karpeles' blog post, the fallout from this "huge, huge mistake" is why he eventually migrated to Japan, where he now lives. There is almost no evidence of Karpeles' possible past arrest on the internet, perhaps because, as the blog post claims, his sentence would have been wiped from records somewhere around two years ago.

But a recent story in the French paper Le Journal de Sâone et Loire, that includes quotes from Karpeles' mother Anne, says that after starting an IT company in Paris, Karpeles left the city after being caught committing "computer fraud." This small tidbit was noticed by Reddit's Bitcoin forum, but has not yet trickled up to the media until now.

If Karpeles does have a history of committing fraud, it doesn't necessarily mean that he did anything wrong legally or morally with Mt. Gox's Bitcoins. But it probably won't make the people out $473 million sleep any easier.

The Bitcoin community will surely learn a number of lessons from the Mt. Gox disaster, and here is a simple one: when investing in Bitcoin, make sure the guy you're trusting with your money doesn't have a secret past committing fraud. Even if that means finding someone who knows French."


Here is additional relevant and related back-story:
http://www.lejsl.com/saone-et-loire/2014/03/01/un-qi-superieur-a-la-moyenne  [the translation is pretty bad]

Before talking to him in the world Mark Karpeles grew up in Dijon. His mother tells the journey of this computer genius.

The man who is now the most hated Internet has boiled teenager. A chubby face "geek" who scares anyone. And yet, this young 28 year old man born in Chenôve is now the target of all fantasies on the internet. Friday, after disappearing for three days, Mark Karpeles admitted to losing the $ 480 million that were stored in virtual currency on its site, MtGox. More than one million users have lost small fortunes in history.

A higher IQ than the average

If apologized, Mark Karpeles still remains in the sights of Japanese and U.S. authorities. The disappearance of that could be fraudulent. Nothing to worry his mother, contacted Friday and an impressive calm on the phone. "I know that Mark will do what it takes. If it is hidden for three days, it's just to gain strength and confront what awaits "says the Dijon now based in Switzerland. "And if he was really worried he would have called me. "

If Anne Karpeles talks about his son as if nothing had happened "for two minutes" that have lasted 15, the scandal generated by Mark resounding. However, the course of Mark Karpeles is nothing that a highwayman able to disappear in a few days, as he did Monday. Born in Chenôve in 1985, Mark Karpeles lived his early years in Côte-d'Or, with his mother, a geologist. He attended school Chevreul, lives in the city center of Dijon and already passionate about IT. "I think we did our first program together, Dijon, when he was 10 years old. "

Because the boy is early. An IQ test diagnostic her intelligence above average. "But there was no effort at school," laughs his mother, not stressed by the ordeals by his son. "I made him do the cooking, sewing, sport, but he mostly hung with computers. "At the point of becoming a genius, even if Anne Karpeles not pronounce the word. "Admittedly, it is not bad in the kitchen either. By cons, it can barely sew on a button (laughs). "A computer genius who, baccalaureate - got to Paris, where his mother had moved - begins in an IT company in Paris. He left the capital a little faster, accused, according to our information, computer fraud. He moved to Japan, where he bought in 2011 MtGox. It is the platform number 1 of Bitcoin. Until February 7, when the first bug, the site managed 80% of global Bitcoin transactions. Suffice to say it was worth a fortune. Today, Mark Karpeles, is accused by the Internet community to be incompetent - at best - or a crook. Nothing to worry his mother who, unlike his son, a young dad, kept ties in Côte-d'Or. "The last time I went to visit him in Japan, its website had been attacked. He solved the problem overnight, "says Anne Karpeles. "I'm sure it will still succeed this time. "Before starting, a knowing smile, a lapidary:" And $ 480 million is what we see when playing with what states and financiers. "

For the background, see the little guy Chenôve now married to a Japanese attacked on all sides, Anne Karpeles expected. "The computer world is hard. And when we know how the Bitcoin angry central banks, governments, one can understand that my son disturbed. "At the point of today find themselves propelled to the front of the stage. Not bad for the former shy child the Rue Neuve-Bergère de Dijon."

Click ''top 5000 traders''. On top there is BTC 581k. This probably is Miss Whale - this cannot be verified as trades for this person(s) were not listed.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9246921/Mt._Gox_kept_exchange_open_despite_knowledge_of_large_scale_theft?taxonomyId=144&pageNumber=1



Mt. Gox kept exchange open despite knowledge of large-scale theft
Exchange continued to operate and collect transaction fees despite its troubles, U.S. bankruptcy filing suggests

By Jeremy Kirk
March 12, 2014 08:53 PM ET
6 CommentsinShare2
IDG News Service - Mt. Gox may have collected a large sum in trading fees in the weeks before its closure, even though it was already aware that a vast number of bitcoins had gone missing, its U.S. bankruptcy filing suggests.

A sworn declaration in the filing from Robert Marie Mark Karpeles, Mt. Gox 's CEO, reveals that the Bitcoin exchange knew in early February that its situation was far graver than it had disclosed at the time.

Mt. Gox halted bitcoin withdrawals from its exchange on Feb. 7. It told customers it was investigating possible fraud due to a security issue called transaction malleability, but did not specify at the time how many bitcoins were missing. Buying and selling on the exchange continued until Feb. 25, when its website went dark.

Mt. Gox's first disclosure of the scale of its problems came when it filed for bankruptcy protection in Tokyo District Court three days later, saying 750,000 of its customers' bitcoins were missing, along with 100,000 of its own.

It appears from the U.S. bankruptcy filing that Mt. Gox executives knew the gravity of the company's losses up to 19 days before its public disclosure, but gave traders no reason at the time to believe the exchange might not be solvent.

In the filing, Karpeles states that the withdrawals were halted Feb. 7 due to "the theft or disappearance of hundreds of thousands of bitcoins owned by Mt. Gox customers as well as Mt. Gox itself."

Why Mt. Gox continued to operate the exchange with that knowledge is unclear.

Karpeles did not respond to a request for comment for this article sent to his personal email address.

The impact of Mt. Gox allowing customers to buy and sell bitcoins it suspected it did not have may be revealed by class-action lawsuits, one of which was filed in Chicago on Feb. 27, and another of which is planned in the U.K.

"They took trading fees on assets which didn't exist and accepted deposits when they knew they were insolvent," Aaron G., a Bitcoin investor who did not want his last name used, said via email.A

"The origin of the losses may or may not be incompetence," added Aaron, who has filed a fraud complaint against Mt. Gox with Tokyo police. "But they knew for at least two weeks and kept operating as normal."

After Feb. 7, Mt. Gox was still processing thousands of trades a day, according to Bitcoincharts.com, which records trading volumes for many Bitcoin markets.

 

An average of 49,912 bitcoins were traded daily on Mt. Gox between Feb. 7 and Feb. 25, at an average weighted price of $380.54 per bitcoin.

Note:  the legal implication of this is reflected in a theory called "deepening insolvency."  This is that the knowing continued operation of an insolvent business operation itself creates a cause of action and this cause of action can be against the PRINCIPALS.  Basically, in this case, that would be anyone in sight with money in their pockets. 

This is the kind of cause of action that can pierce the corporate veil, or even directly go after directors and CEOs, possibly without even doing that first. 

Corporate lawyers will find this kind of cause of action very cutting edge and juicy.  Unfortunately, I'd also imagine they'd consume a lot of billable hours pursuing this very nifty, fun, edgy cause of action.

I now regret that I hate corporate law.

That depends if you are more interested in getting your bitcoins or having a pound of flesh.

You know something that the public doesn't know?

At this point, I don't see it as a multiple choice question.

already being done http://blog.mtgoxrecovery.com/

I have been trying to read every possible forum posts and online articles about Gox since the BTC withdrawal blocking and I think I ended up with two conclusions:
1: I don't think we will solve this puzzle alone. Nobody knows or tells us enough and many people manage to actually work against each other.
2: At this rate, it's possible for me to reach a point where the time I spend reading about Gox could earn me the BTC (semi-directly in crypto or in fiat integrated at real-time price) I had on Gox if I spent that time working on something actually useful (for example, managing my altcoins and my mining hardwares with more care in this post-callopse-ish situation and/or managing my CE service business).

How is this a matter of time instead of a matter of interest?

BUMP - reminder to follow the coins!

As a group, we are not alone. April 1 will be interesting. I am still hopeful for Bitcoin that this gets sorted out by the community and some concrete answers are provided. Anything less than 100% payout and complete disclosure of how and why this happened will leave Bitcoin tainted forever.

Follow the coins. People (not only this community, but worldwide) are starved for truth. If the truth can be shared, regardless of the pain, Bitcoin will flourish.

And if the truth includes 'transaction malleability' or 'hack' that would only be part of the truth. Thieves that take advantage of a security weakness should be exposed as well. If "everybody" was doing it, as I recently heard, then the whole damn thing is rotten. You don't build trust that way.

Were is CEO Mark Karpeles now?

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/leoking/files/2014/02/Mark-Karpeles.jpg

zetaOS

your image/link/attachment was disallowed

kindly amended your post to include the text info

done

Check this, please
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=524429

These guys connected with Mt. Gox!
For the sake of all the robbed in cryptocommunity, highlight this, participate!

Hi I am Mark Karpeles and will open the Bitcoin Cafe in Japan Tokio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpN1UU8LErw&feature=youtu.be
 ;D

Has something like this already been suggested/attempted?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559309.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=559309.0)

Perhaps a little help here ...

I thought my money in mtgox was lost, but I read that you can check your balance on the website mtgox.
I transferred € 500 in early bebruary, but can not see the funds. I contacted my bank before but they say it arrived at mtgox.
When I asked for clarification they say it was sent to poland bank WBS (performed from Swiss).
I have rechecked if the funds have been updated, but my old balance is still there.

What can I ask my bank to help investigation?

Jack

Were is Mark Karpelès now? He still has that badass Polish bodyguard?

Never saw the domain below mentioned in this case, so I thought should be included:

canibuildasitehandlingotherpeoplesmoney.com

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576273.new#new

Seems someone tagged the site in the blockchain well after the site was put up.

*listen*

Mark Karpelès is on the run!
http://www.bitcoinupdate.nl/1/post/2014/04/verkoop-inboedel-mtgox-van-start-mark-karpeles-op-de-vlucht.html

I might take time to translate it later:
Did he leave Japan?   ???

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bitcoinupdate.nl%2F1%2Fpost%2F2014%2F04%2Fverkoop-inboedel-mtgox-van-start-mark-karpeles-op-de-vlucht.html&edit-text=&act=url

thanks for that

Not mentioned by any other sources yet.
Thank you, but this is not real news.

He can run, but he can't hide.

This was a very interesting article by the way: http://www.dailytech.com/Bitcoin+King+Pt+II+Mt+Goxs+Dictator+Karpels+Proves+Tragically+Flawed/article34452.htm

It alleges that mk sold the coins for about 75 million around April and presents some good circumstantial evidence for it. Same author also says: "[MK] bought a luxury condo in Megura Ward, a pricier part of Tokyo". This was also around the time twobitidiot declared war on Vanessen - maybe unrelated, but MK did try to run with our 200k btc - or raughly 120 million dollars - and his past history shows he is a dishonest man who tried to cover up the theft of a million btc by continuing to operate a fractional reserve.

His lies are up. Whatever happened, he was primarily responsible for it, and it may well be that he was responsible in a criminal way.

Great article, a true must read.

The most believable Gox-loss story I have ever read. And I agree with the author, it is still a sad story for everyone.

For one part, it would confirm some of my fears (for example, that most of those big price rises were caused by Gox, so I can't expect another like those without yet catastrophic scams which can burn me too).

For another part: I must admit that I share some (but very far from all) personality attributes with Karpelés.
Don't get me wrong. I didn't say I think we are similar (I wouldn't dare to admit something like that). But I see some matches and thus I fear that I could replicate a similar failure if I were in his place. And it makes me thinking about my future plans.

For one part:
I agree Gox played a big part in fueling last years rallies (some of that was people constantly paying high prices since they could not withdraw cash)
BTC can have more massive bull markets... The Bitcoin economy is growing so fast compared to 2011, 2012.

For another part:
Hey, it's great you can look at yourself so honestly, and want to plan on success not failure.  :)

I thought about this a little more and it still doesn't add up.

Let's say I am afraid I might need 75M USD if I don't want to go into jail or run and hide for many years.
And I think I can nefariously borrow ~1M BTC and ~50M USD from my customers+creditors without letting anyone know.
I haven't done anything which would call for blood. In worst case I face a huge penalty cheque and/or some bearable amount of jail time.
But I already have enough USD and BTC to run and hide forever from the law if things go bad and I really don't want to risk getting into jail.

What do I do?

A.) I use as many of the customer funds for as long as possible to earn as many USD and/or BTC as possible while I still have a chance to keep this all hidden.
I occasionally manipulate the price, delay some deposits/withdrawals, bribe some other exchanges to follow my orders, etc, etc.
But I make sure that even if some unforeseeable events might cause a serious glitch in my system which exposes some elements of my rogue game, I might still recover and cover it all up with some story (I hope nobody will put too much work into investigations as long as nobody feels personally hurt by me) or at least I can instantly RUN!!!
So basically I constantly prepare for running in any minute but I try to avoid the necessity of running for as long as possible (forever if it all goes fine) as much as possible.
If everything collapses (regardless of my precautions because I manage to prove that I was still stupid after all) and I need to run, then I am already running before anybody knows.

B.) I use basically all the customer funds to earn as many USD and/or BTC as possible like there is no tomorrow.
I commit yet another very transparent crime which will only worsen my case when everything collapses around me. And it will surely collapse. I am fully aware of that because I stole/wasted/lost basically all the assets. I know there is no way back, no way out... well, other than running but I don't even consider that option. (Why...? Seriously... WHY?)
I believe I can steel several hundred million USD on plain sight to pay that ~75M USD for my past crimes so I become completely clean.
I hope nobody will care about this latest crime of mine which is by the way the biggest of them all. I just hope I will be able to come up with yet another crime to be able to pay my next penalty. Or I am stupid enough to think I will solve this (!latest and biggest!) crime with a simple lie. It will be a lot easier to face the penalty for this (!biggest of my!) crime than it would have been for my past crimes.
-> I am stupid enough to think the police will accept the money I just stole on plain sight to pay the penalty for all (old and recent) crimes and simply let me alone (with some money in my pockets)!?
I don't have any real escape plan. I don't care if I need to face the music. I am not afraid people might demand blood instead of money and/or jail time. I don't care that now I have even more penalty cheques and/ jail time coming. I am stupid as that.

C.) I am simply insane and I decide it will be a much more fun exploit to waste all the customer funds than simply hanging myself in the closet today (because I have nothing better to do). I can do that any day, before or after this (even inside the jail).
It will be a fun story. I didn't live for nothing. My life has a meaning now, I might make it into the history books.
Ok, let's do it!


I would vote for C. A is too demanding and B is way too stupid.

Yes. According to bitcoinupdate.nl, he is running from hotel-to-hotel in Tokyo, along with his bodyguard.  ;D

You gotta be fuckin' kiddin' me! I've yet to read the first word in the link article because I was met with this:

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/32831_Karpeles_Samurai_Wide_FP.png

this article:
http://www.dailytech.com/Bitcoin+King+Pt+II+Mt+Goxs+Dictator+Karpels+Proves+Tragically+Flawed/article34452.htm is worth the time.
It gives a very detailed look at the real Mark.

That's what I'm reading now.

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/Karpeles_Contemplative_Japan_March_2008_Wide.png
"If only I could meet Brock Pierce in person some day."

At least we learn now that Jed did his due diligence when he sold Mt Gox to Mark, akin to the due diligence used to now put Brock Pierce at the helm.

So, Brother Geek, what do you invest in?
In Bitcoin.
You mean Paedo- Coin, don't you?
He he!
Ha! Ha!
Good one, Mike!
Why don't my fellow geeks don't like me anymore?

Here is only one motherfuckin' clue that in no motherfuckin' way Mark Karpeles should have been in control of Mt Gox, let alone anybody using said service.

Now, following the clues that Brock Pierce, too, should not be in control of the new Mt Gox, especially since he has a controlling interest in KnC's 7,000+ rig mining farm, not to mention his paedo- history and fucking over his ex-partner to the tune of $20M USD.

When doesn't this fuckin' shit end????????????????

Finally, some good news.

Phinnaeus Gage live blogging the history of Mark K:
...leadership is only earned by hard work and merit
Did Obama pass that test?

http://blockchained.com/stuff/figure_2.png

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=590138 What happened at Gox on 2013-05-13 - (BTC Xfer Diagrams)

May 14, 2013
MtGox funds seized by Homeland

The United States Department of Homeland Security seizes over US$2.9 million from a Dwolla account that belonged to a subsidiary of MtGox because it allegedly “failed to register as a ‘money transmitting business’ in accordance with 18 U.S. Code 1960.”

Source: http://historyofbitcoin.org/

Please explain how your quoted tweet implies anything about his ability to run MtGox.

Thanks for the read.

Cant say anything I read was surprising though. Karpeles incompetence was apparent from the beginning & carried through to the end.

'Magic Cards' were never traded on the domain, that was the original intent then along came Bitcoin.

The unused domain was then chosen to become the home of the Bitcoin exchange.

It's one of those 'myths' which people often quote but it's actually quite untrue to say that they used to trade these cards on the website because they didn't.