Bitcoin Forum

Here's a draft of a welcome message for new users. The user will see it on the screen confirming their registration, and it'll also be available in the help center at any time.

Some text in the intro was obviously inspired by xtraelv's signature, which I really like.

Please provide your suggested additions/changes. However:
 - I don't want to put in a lot of exact numbers such as all of the merit/activity thresholds, since then I need to remember to update them.
 - I don't believe in creating definitive rule lists.
 - There's no need for this to be a complete explanation of everything on the forum. It's just the basics.

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Welcome to bitcointalk.org, the Bitcoin Forum! You can access this welcome message from the "help" link in the top menu bar at any time.

As a member of the forum, you are surrounded by legends; phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. The forum was created by Satoshi Nakamoto (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5.0) and saw the first exchange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20.0), the first altcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6017.0), and the first ICO (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428589.0), but also catastrophic software flaws (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=822.0), massive thefts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=16457.0), and incredible scams (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101339.0). You too have an opportunity to become part of the forum's history: whether and in what way you do so is up to you.

Table of contents

• The purpose of the forum (#post_purpose)
• Forum rank (#post_rank)
  • Posting images and wearing signatures (#post_images)
• Common rule violations (#post_rules)
• Languages (#post_languages)
• Beware of scams (#post_scams)
• Getting help (#post_help)

The purpose of the forum

This forum exists to provide a platform for the free (but ordered) exchange of ideas. If you have an idea to express, then it is probably possible to do it here as long as you follow the rules.

A lot of people come here primarily looking to make money. The forum administration is very happy that people are able to use the forum in order to better themselves; indeed, one of the reasons for Bitcoin's creation was to break the artificial barriers which prevent so many people around the world from attaining prosperity. However, if your attempts to make money conflict with the forum's primary goal of enabling discussion, then you are swimming upstream, and you will not be sucessful in the end.

If you view the forum as some sort of "job" where you complete some basic tasks and get paid, then you will almost certainly be disappointed, and the forum administration will not be sympathetic. If you do make money using the forum, then it will be through innovation and entrepreneurship, not any sort of mindless busywork.

Forum rank

When you start out, you are a Newbie, and you will run into various annoying limits. These limits will be reduced to the point where you shouldn't usually notice them after you have participated in the forum for a few weeks. If you are on the forum to talk, then that's all you really need to know about rank. Don't worry about it too much, and you will eventually rank up.

If you want to maximize your rank, then you need to increase two statistics which are listed on your profile:

• Activity, which is maximized by posting once per day on average. Posting more than that is useless in raising your activity.
• Merit, which is gained by making good posts.

If you make ten thousand posts in a week, your activity will be capped and you will still be a Newbie. If you make ten thousand useless posts over any period of time, you will gain zero merit and you will still be a Newbie. You can rank up only by making good posts consistently. It's quality over quantity.

When trying to write quality posts, a lot of people act as though they're writing a book report for school: putting facts that we already know into their own words. Nobody wants to read that, and you will not get merit for it. Moreover, the length of your post and the quality of your English are only minor factors. In trying to write a quality post worthy of merit, you should offer new ideas, personal experiences, or perspectives that other forum users will actually find new and interesting.

Posting images and wearing signatures

Users of Newbie rank cannot post images or wear signatures. If you want to do these things, then you can either rank up (explained above) or pay for a copper membership (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=credit;promote).

Common rule violations

These are the most common rule violations that newbies make. There are other rules than these.

• Plagiarism: If you copy some text from somewhere, then you should have a good reason for it, and you must link to the source. Doing otherwise is plagiarism. Changing a few words around doesn't matter. If we find that you plagiarized, then you absolutely will be permanently banned, even if we find it years after you did it.
• Multi-posting: Do not post twice in a row in a topic. Instead, edit your old post.
• Low-content posts: Do not post low-content garbage like "agreed!", "nice project!", etc. You can be banned for this, and it's also pointless if you want to increase your rank, since you will never get merit for such posts.

Languages

If you are fluent in any language other than English, then it is highly encouraged for you to post in your local board. These boards often have tight-knit communities which will be able to help you, and in some ways you might be at an advantage compared to English-only posters.

In the English sections, only English is allowed. It is not necessary to speak perfect English, though you should be understandable. Try your best. If you're unsure whether your English is good enough, ask in your local board or in the Beginners & Help section

Here are the local boards:

AUTOMATIC_LIST_OF_LOCAL_BOARDS

Beware of scams

This is a pseudonymous forum which emphasizes personal freedom and therefore also personal responsibility, so scammers are common. When trading, it's best to assume that everyone is trying to scam you, and act accordingly. Use an escrow (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2439910.0), and take note of each user's trust ratings next to their posts and on their profiles. When you are more familiar with people around the forum, you should define your own trust list (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust) rather than using the default.

Getting help

First, search (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=search) for your problem to see if anyone has asked about it before. If you don't find anything on it, ask in the Meta (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0) section. If you don't speak English well, either ask in your local section or PM the moderators of your local section.

If you think that a post is breaking the rules, use the "report to moderator" link on it. Do not PM moderators directly.

Escrow thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2439910.0

Perhaps under "Common Rule Violations", after you say "There are other rules than these" it would be worthwhile linking to mprep's list of rules: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

Also, a line about reading the stickied threads on various boards wouldn't go amiss IMO.

Add a dot (.) at the end.

Can you add: "Also don't post the same message in more than one topic".

I think this will be interpreted as if the Meta section is the place to go to with any problem, instead of just forum-related problems.

Did you use hilariousetc's What should be included in a newbie welcome message? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4923876.0) thread for suggestions already? I think at least "don't post referral links" and "don't beg for money" should be added.

In addition to what had been said, I’m trying to get myself into the shoes of a person who is not very literate in English, and forseeing their obvious first problem which is understanding the content properly. Ideally, being English the default, the message could be selectable somehow (I.e. dropdown box or so). Another way round would be to link the translations next to the local board list you mention.
I’m sure the translations are not an issue, for there are enough volunteers around here to do that.

Edit 24/09/2018: Just one more thought. If you go head making this welcome message available in multiple languages, the ownership of them and the derived stickies should be yours (Admins). The idea is to avoid situations I’ve encountered on my local board where by rules are translated into the local language, but the OP is no longer active and thus the rule post is now out of sync (I’ve PMd the mods on my local there to see if it can somehow be fixed).

It's very helpful for new users if they can select their mother languages for welcome message.
I think the most important part of welcome message is to notify new users of this forum's purpose and rules in brief. Therefore, welcome message should be understood as much as possible by their mother language.
At the very least, local board members will help to translate welcome message for each local board language.

I would add a reminder to read the stickies, as some sections have specific rules and regulations.

Actually, reading the pinned posts will give you all the initial information you would possibly need as a newbie.

Happy to see one more crossed out from the list with suggestions :)

If i were a newly registered user i'd probably like to see forum rules:
Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0)

Also, [Guide] Bitcointalk account security (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4920096.0) will help them avoid frequently made mistakes which concerns the security of their bitcointalk accounts.

I agree with ddmrddmr. A lot of users don't have English as their first language. I'd have to add to that : A lot of users have poor reading skills. They are likely to only skim the text or read the first two paragraphs. Not that they cannot read. Just that they often don't even read the previous posts above their own comments when they post a reply.

For this reason I would recommend fine tuning  and condensing the opening statement so it contains everything about the most important message that you want to communicate to the new members..

Also avoid using phrases like "swimming upstream" as they may not be understood by some users.

Being dyslexic I'm not the ideal person to give advise on this. The organised thought in my head doesn''t always end up expressed well in writing.  It also often causes me to miss things reading or misread things.

Keeping that in mind - it is good to keep the language as brief and simple as possible. Which will take effort for an eloquent writer like yourself. But the people that need the message the most are not necessarily able to comprehend a high level of English.

Maybe mention machine translated post as the Common rule violations or Languages section.

Good point, this will reduce confusion most of local members had.

It would be helpful for new members if the message includes these links to the rules and account security threads.

Good to see that in the last weeks a lot has happened for the forum!

Devinitiv which was very good the change with Merit and newbies!
So it is good to greet the new users with a good welcome message, or at any rate make them aware of some of the things the forum is about!

Unfortunately, I also know of another site where I am active as a moderator, although many read the hints quickly (best example forum rules) but do not pay attention or take seriously!

But the hint is there and if you do not read these you are guilty!

Maybe add Tomatocage Stake your bitcoin address here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.0) to reduce someone's who usually complains about account being hacked or stolen and maybe introduce the copper membership account and it's features comparing it to being a newbie rank.

Please mention about the trust system, if you want to. It might be a little important for newbies to know more about it...

While this is currently a touchy subject in itself. I think the message would benefit from having some information regarding account recovery.

An explanation about how it's not automatic or guaranteed at this point in time. This could be in the form of explaining why it's important to secure their password.

I think the message should be shorter - much shorter. Or at least have the table of contents expanded into more of a summary: this is a Bitcoin forum, not a job... don't post shit... don't fall for scams... etc, with links to more details on each point.

We know that people don't read, particularly 90% of people who register on this forum. So the "donts" for bounty hunters should be very prominent in this message.

Maybe add the thread made by Lauda:
 [General] Bitcoin Wallets - Which, what, why?  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1631151.0) so that they have informations on what wallets they will use. Since they are newbies, they don't have idea into which wallet is the safest to use.

Made in Mobile :D

1) Should add one more option to encourage people's for reporting spam post. This thread could be embedded for help new member's, Report effectively (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4519248.0)

Table of contant title could be; Help forum by reporting spam post
A new user should know how to report spam post so that he can avoid spam himself.

2) Title could be ; Read most useful post by users and I think this thread could be embedded [GUIDES] on Bitcointalk. Index thread (until there is a dedicated subforum?) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4928968.0) . So newbie will able to read all useful post on one place. And there is all important post available.

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I am agree with it. If message write too longer than member will discourage to read it. So it's better short discription with embedded link. So people will click link to read details. One more thing all clickable link should open new window/tab instated of redirect on same window/tab.

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I don't think so escrow thread should suggeste by forum admin and shouldn't add on welcome message. If happen any scam who will responsible for that ? Theymos shouldn't involved with escrow system.

I think this is too long and filled with needless information. 90% of Newbies won't read it let alone understand it. Just keep it simple and concise and give the most important info but include many links to further/in depth information so the info is there if they do want to investigate further and so they're not overloaded by text or things they don't even understand or care about. You could put half of this stuff in some other thread that is linked to and they can read that if they wish, but most will just gloss over it if you're trying to give them the entire history of the forum which isn't necessary for a welcome message.


We should probably get rid of half the rules here if you don't care that much about them. Most of them aren't enforced or to standard that is effective such as ban evasion. If rules aren't gong to be enforced properly then just get rid of them as it's a waste of time for staff and some users are punished unfairly whilst others get off completely free or given a free pass. I don't think getting rid of rules is something we should do but rules are useless and become a joke when they're barely ever enforced or just selectively.


The majority of people who come here these days speak very poor English. They're not going to understand half of this. You could cut this down to a much simpler sentence or two that gets the point across.



Why even say things like this and the above when they're really just not true (unless you've got some huge changes planned on how people can earn here)? Unless things change to how ICO campaigns can operate here then users won't be disappointed. They'll be overjoyed by being here and how easy it is to earn from doing little to nothing. People can still get paid for either copy and pasting posts or writing mindless drivel that is text-spun over as many accounts as they like and requiring one merit isn't going to stop this. People who are farming hundreds of accounts copy and pasting with bots are never looked into so is that what you call 'innovation and entrepreneurship'? This just seems like a hollow threat that won't be enforced just like half the other rules so it's pointless even saying unless we're actually going to be cracking down on the huge abuses here which are only going to get worse the longer we do nothing about them.

Exactly, nobody reads the T&C with Google, Yt or Fb, let's not fool ourselves believing they will read this if it takes more than 1 minute.

vs

The only way to make sure they will go through all of it would be to put captchas after each paragraph.

PS.
I don't remember reading those T&C myself, I didn't even read the entire mortgage contract as it was 70 pages long...

I agree with a lot of the comments, and especially the ones referring to the length.

I think a short punchy message would be enough, and it should include links to a couple of stickies. Follow that with a statement such as
" Read the contents of those stickies carefully, breaking the rules will probably lead to the loss of your account, and a permanent ban from the forum".

I also believe the message is too long.   

Most new members (esp the ones who don't care about bitcoin) are not going to read it.

Make it around 1/5th the size and post a link to the full thing.

How often do you plan to make changes to the merit/activity thresholds? I hope this alludes to more are possibly coming or you're considering it. Updating this shouldn't be a huge issue though, but you don't need to keep updating it if you link to my Ranks/Merit/Activity FAQ thread and I can keep that updated. Same goes for all the other rules and guide threads. As we've all said, just keep the message as brief as possible with the most important or frequently broken rules displayed prominently and link to everything else like guides or the history of the forum if you want that there. Just give them the bare bones of what they need to know and the smart or weary amongst new users will take the additional time to educate themselves further.


I think we should probably just go with the template I came up with but re-write it or add all the additional information theymos wants there. The most important info in bullet points is probably much easier for Newbies to digest or understand.

I am sorry to intervene here but I am also concerned that we should have a forum logo modifications, theme design, and simple 3-D effects on welcoming the new members in the forum. This might help the positive environment for cryptocurrency especially in choosing the right theme and color for the forum. We could make a contest here for the making of this additional.

Lastly to have a very good understanding between the newbie party and the forum all of those listings should be consider a check mark box when accepting terms and legal condition for one to proceed in the furom.

It's likely that few people are going to read everything, yes, but is better having something exhaustive for those who will actually bother reading it imo.

I couldn't disagree more. All that 3D effects would achieve is to detract from the message.

I agree with the general consensus things should be kept short, simple, to the point, but as mentioned I would advocate for links to all the relevant stickies, or at the very least, a sentence sign-posting where they can find more information. I don't like just stating "There are other rules" without providing some guidance on where to find said other rules.

I'd even go into making bullet points or a checklist. So that its condensed down. I fear that including a checklist would just result in them ticking it like the normal TOS checkboxes that no one ever reads, but at least physically, and away from the internet checklists can be pretty effective.

The message isn't pages long, and is to the point(sorta). If newbies don't read it,then its their issue, they won't be able to complain on not knowing anything this time. The smaller the message gets, the more stupider it'd sound. Its a welcome message, not a summary of bitcointalk. The message would probably be fine, as long as its not an annoying pop-up.

@theymos, you should add links that newbies might find helpful. Like this one (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1217042.msg12752676#msg12752676).

We're already throwing the rulebook at shitposters when they e.g. complain about being banned for plagiarism. And then they often proceed to break other rules (e.g. multiposting) in that same complaint thread, so yeah they don't read the rules even after being banned but telling them "it's your fault for not reading" isn't working well. I'd like to think that part of theymos' goal for the welcome message is reduction of undesirable behavior and if so then we should (sadly) consider catering to (1) the people most likely to behave that way, and (2) the negligible attention span and aversion to reading/learning these users are infamous for.

Just need to have a video that they have to watch with the promise of a couple of worthless ERC-20 tokens if they watch the video and answer the questionnaire. (Randomized questions so they cannot cheat)

BCTrules token. Coming to an exchange near you...

EDIT:

Don't hiss at me. It can be an omni token.  ::)

Don't even need a token, just not let them post until they pass the quiz. 3 questions randomly selected from a pool of ~200 occasionally updated crowd-sourced questions should do the trick. Speaking of which, I could supply the trick ones, like "How much do you need to pay the Legendaries for merit?"

Kudos to theymos by putting a stop for waiting game and lot of good initiatives has been taken since last week. Can we implement following changes also when users got banned because it will reduce a lot of unnecessary threads in Meta  

- Showing the reason of banning when someone login into a banned account
- Showing massage to contact theymos/Cyrus when someone gets banned

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And also the welcome message shall be a concise one as already suggested by others. Ann Wylie, the writer (researcher) highlighted (http://prsay.prsa.org/2009/01/14/how-to-make-your-copy-more-readable-make-sentences-shorter/) that if the average length in a piece was fewer than eight words long, readers understood the 100% of its content. But sometimes it is still doubtful whether newbies will read the welcome message regardless of its length.

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Oh no that's an easy one since some of them are already knowing the answer. How about this "How much activity needed to become a Legendary?" :P


 

I think in welcome message  we should advise them to "Read the stickies" in the board in which they are posting/reading. Stickies already have answer to questions that newbies ask.

I created a One Pager (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5029674)   few days ago outlining what can be our main points.

Welcome messages are like the terms of service... nobody reads them

This a good implementation and great thought from comments so far, I will like to add that the newbies are meant to accept that they have read and understand the all the rules before proceeding further so that when rules are violated and punishment is issued no one will start opening thread asking why this ans why that. 

True, but you could have explained the Trust system a bit.

It seems to be a source of (understandable) confusion amongst new members that there are, in fact, two regulatory bodies on BCT.

One lot has rules it doesn't apply and the other lot applies rules it doesn't have; can be a bit of a head fuck for them.

Speaking of Omni:


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.0

If the welcome message is too long, I think the whole "Forum rank" section could be replaced with a link how forum ranks/activity/merit work.

The "Beware of scams" section could be moved up, or written in a font of a different color. Or the headline, at least.

In Digital goods several months ago I pinned EcuaMobi's "Avoid auto-buy links, mainly locked or self moderated. Register before dealing (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3035620.0)" topic, and I'm still getting PMs pretty much daily from people got conned by a blatant scammer with a glaring red Trust rating.

Yeah, we don't need to explain everything in explicit detail there as it would be overkill, but that info should be linked to so people can read up on it and we have a couple of guides explaining those in detail. We should probably come up with a list of the most asked questions or things that people are often most confused about here and try work that into the welcome message but things like merit, ranks/activity are always the big ones.


Yeah, I get them a lot as well. I think most people come here straight from google directly to the scam thread after they search for things like "buy netflix accounts or twitter followers" etc so that's why they don't see the sticky or why they don't see the scammers colossal amount of negative feedback because it's not shown unless you're signed up and logged in. Maybe theymos could put a warning at the top in red like we have in the ponzi section and/or implement a redirect notice/landing page when users are taken off-site reminding users to check the url and warning about the dangers of buying things from autobuy links and not using a trusted escrow etc.

I don't think Plagiarism is something that needs to be pointed out as being something you can't do. First of all, this is something that people should know they shouldn't do, for a number of reasons, and I believe most people who do this know it is wrong, but do it anyway.

Also, I don't think it is as big of a problem in terms in the number of people getting into trouble doing this. Sure there are very many instances of this happening, however I suspect this is done by a fairly small number of people with a very large number of sockpuppet accounts, and I suspect this is often done via some kind of automation/AI.

Well it shouldn't have to be but it really does need to be pointed out that this isn't acceptable and you can see that from the number of threads from people in Meta asking why they were banned and if they can get a second chance, so people should be made aware of the rules and the punishments for doing this so there's no excuses then.


Sadly I think you're very wrong. Copy and pasting and plagiarism is a huge problem and I'd say this sort of abuse is actually becoming endemic and almost commonplace now. Probably 50+ users a day are being banned for it and many multiples more will be getting away with it. Sure, there will be some times where a few individuals will be responsible for having hundreds if not thousands of accounts botting away, but there also seems to be hundreds of individual 'lone wolves' doing it as well with however many alts they have. I don't know whether there's some website that just suggests people come here and copy and paste posts if they can't speak English very well or people are just telling their friends and family to do so or they're even just actually figuring out how to easily abuse the forum by themselves, but it's mind-blowing how many people are doing it and it's sad to know that the admins don't look into any of it. I'm sure it's only the tip of the shitberg that even I know about and I dread to think of how many people are actually getting away with this on an industrial scale. Banning a few accounts for it when they could have hundreds or even thousands more going behinds the scenes is almost pointless and losing a few accounts a day will probably just become an occupational hazard to farmers. The only change that has been made is that they now require one merit or purchase a Copper Membership but when some of the worst offenders are making tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars from abusing bounties and campaigns they'll just purchase the merit or rank to bypass this. Merits can then easily and quickly be distributed between their alts and that's why I think we should require much more merit before you can start earning here, or at least make them buy a much more expensive Silver or Gold rank.

It's become worse in the last few weeks since the change to the merit system. Shitposters suddenly find themselves in the need of a single merit, but they don't know anything except shitposting. Instead of spending 5 minutes to read a thread and formulate a coherent reply, they generally are just resorting to plagiarism +/- text spinning. We have even seen some legendary members selling a couple of paragraphs of plagiarism to one-line shitposting newbies, who will post them, and then receive a merit from the legendary.

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Edit:


From a thread on Meta earlier today:

I like it. It is some kind of starting point for a new user willing to read a little.   :)

Are the abusers buying the Copper memberships and getting banned? Most of the new Copper memberships I have seen appear to be bounty managers.

You'd have more of an idea about that than me - being able to see how many coppers get banned - I'm asking out of curiosity.

I don't know the numbers but I have reported plenty of Copper copy-pasters and they did get banned, e.g:

https://bpip.org/profilearchive.aspx?p=ibiznes

Try it, it's very therapeutic in a schadenfreude kind of way.

Didn't know you know german! Haha  nice yeah   ;D

I still think that something like :

READ THE FU*KING STICKIES IN EACH SECTION![/b][/color]

should be enough as a welcome message.

Translated this message to Bengali and added in the OP of our thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=631891.0.

 I think they should also be referred to as pinned topics.  ESL members might not comprehend "stickies".

I actually think there are a fairly small number of threads in meta disputing bans (due to plagiarism), especially when compared to when BadBear was banning people for 'low effort posts + paid signature' wholesale. I also have noticed that many of these threads are asking why they have been banned, and often someone will post evidence they were copy/past spamming, and I also note that I understand the ban message is something along the lines of "sorry hilariousetc you have been banned by a forum moderator" when they are permmabanned, and does not have a specific reason, so it is possibly these people don't know they were caught plagiarizing.


I don't dispute this is a problem in the forum, I am totally in agreement this is a major issue that needs to be addressed. I have previously advocated the administration scrub posts for copy/paste posts posted, and to scrub posts of a plagiarism database.

I do not dispute that 50+ accounts are banned for this every day, however this is accounts and not necessarily people. We certainly do not see 50+ threads of people questioning why they are banned, substantially lower than that. Also, refer back to when BadBear was banning sig spammers wholesale, there were periods of time when there were many threads opened every day by people banned. This is also a fairly new problem, and it went from absolutely not a problem to being an epidemic almost overnight.

I have also noticed that many people caught copy/past spamming are low rank accounts, which means people are not earning very much from these copy/paste spamming. Many accounts have been caught copy/paste spamming as newbies, which previously could earn very little from paid signatures.

I suspect that many of the copy/paste spammers are probably people we don't really want here regardless of their copy/past spamming. I suspect they are either bump spammers, are engaging in some kind of 'black hat' SEO (either positive, or negative -- I am not sure), or are otherwise trying to create a false sense of interest in projects.  

Probably 99% of people who are banned for copy and pasting won't create a thread in Meta about it. They'll either know what they were banned for and the rest just do it as a last ditch effort to try rescue their account from certain death (or they are genuinely oblivious to why they were banned (apparently a lot of people think copy and pasting is ok)).

I think a lot more people will probably just email the address provided and hope for the best, but I'm not even sure if it's being monitored at all (they're certainly aren't getting responded to) so they just languish in uncertainty. The message should probably be removed or edited, or someone should be assigned to monitor and reply to applicable mails. At the very least you could probably attach a message giving the most common reasons for bans so people can work it out. If nobody is ever going to monitor that email then it should just be removed completely.


True, but also there are almost certainly many more people not being banned who are getting away with it. It's just the tip of the shitberg that we're seeing and sadly even those with numerous accounts getting banned will still likely be evading on the rest we missed as we are unlikely to get them all every time.


Again, most will probably just follow the apparent 'procedure' and use the email provided. Meta will be a last ditch effort for them.


They earn little as a single unit, but when you've got hundreds of accounts claiming them the money soon starts to rack up. There have been some cases where farmers have had tens of thousands of dollars worth of tokens sent to an address, so there is a heck of a lot of money to be made from shitposting, especially in volume. When you've got ICO campaigns paying people for one liners or drivel or just copy and pasting this becomes very lucrative and also very easy money. Fire up a bot over hundreds of accounts and watch the money come in. You might have a dozen or even half banned but that's just an occupational hazard to a farmer these days.


They're all people we don't want here in one way or another. If you come here just to post one liners to get paid or copy and paste then there's no reason they should be here. That's why the forum is in such a state. Probably 90% of these users who sign up here do so just because they've heard you can get paid good money here for doing very little. When you know little to nothing about bitcoin and can't speak English very well then this is just a recipe for disaster.

Friendly bump for visibility.  Many accounts post ban appeal in Meta and they often turn out to be banned by plagiarism and/or duplicating posts.  It would be good to emphasize in the welcome message that they are prohibited.

If this will be implemented then I hope to see a video about the forum on ranking mechanism, Merit system and how to rank up. This will encourage to avoid low quality post regarding on spamming for usually after registering one may consider on ranking up. So low quality post will be avoided and quality and constructive post will be likely to happen. Aside from that it could be better also to show copy and pasting post that will result to banning then introduce forum rules as reference fir more details on forum rules to be shown and should be part in the video.  Most are preferred with a video to learn and this one of the best way to welcome newbie.

I have seen this video in youtube and this is very informative regarding on bitcointalk forum https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ay4UL3sWtY

This is only a suggestion and please do take it seriously.

Fully agreed with @sncc and other users - every week we have tens new "Why I got banned?" threads in Meta board... In my opinion the most important information for new users is what is strictly prohibited and results in being banned so this section should be moved up over the Forum rank one I would also suggest using red color this one time. As it was said many times most of people spend not more than 10 - 20 seconds reading such messages, so lets be sure that at least this one message will reach them.

I think with any deletion it would be really good to include the reason for the deletion. It could be as simple as including the text of the initial report or a tickbox system so it is clear why the person is banned or post was deleted. It will prevent recurrence of rule breaking by those that don't intent to break the rules.

Link to rules.  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0)

Permaban:
☐ Plagiarism / copy and paste without attribution
☐ Persistent Spam
☐ Ban evasion
☐ Exploiting forum code
☐ Banned multiple times previously - ignored warnings
☐ Other - comment ..............

Deletion / Short term ban
☐ Advertising / Spam not related to thread
☐ Off topic
☑ Low quality post
☐ Too many bumps, "updates" per 24 hours
☐ Trolling   
☐ Threatening behavior
☐ Begging
☐ Un-deleted old bump
☐ Referral link
☐ Link to illegal site
☐ NSFW images / No NSFW warning
☐ Duplicate posts
☐ Foreign language on English board
☐ Altcoin giveaway (not in bounty thread)
☐ Incorrect message board
☐ Multiple sales threads for same items
☐ Sale of illegal goods
☐ Consecutive posts in the same thread (by same account or alt accounts)
☐ Link shortner that requires viewing of advertisement
☐ Translation created by automated translation tool
☐ Other - comment ..............

Just thought I'd bump this and see if there's been any progress on the welcome message. Started out solid with some good suggestions so I figured it was probably pretty close to being launched.

I would like to see this introduced in Bitcointalk forum.

Quiz/test knowledge messages can be used for:

- Registration  (to prevent bot/spam users asking them to read forum rules and basic Bitcoin faq, and then answer them)
- for Ranking Up  (extra way to rank up with answering quiz/test of knowledge)
- preventing users break forum rules (by educating them with quiz/test and rewarding with merit if they pass)

It can be useful for:

- educating users
- preventing spam/bots
- improving merit and ranking system
- improving Bitcointalk forum

This thought also passed my mind a while back tbh. It might help, tho I would assume it would only lead to a new service on the forum "pass quiz for you ! only $2 in BTC. GUARANTEED !!!" of "sell account with all quizzes passed with 10/10 " or "rank booster: will pass account rank quiz".
Tho your intentions are definitely honorable, might not have the full desired outcome.
Still up for debate tho :)

We have users on this forum who don't speak a word of English and we will probably have more in the future. With such an implementation you would be limiting Bitcointalk to only those who can understand English well enough to pass the test. 

Google and other automatic translations works wonders nowadays.
And we (machine) would ask simple to understand/translate questions.
I also proposed in other topic to put more focus on growing other language sections Local boards.





Probably true... BUT we could add rule that restrict that service and ban users for cheating

That would be impossible to enforce. There's no way to tell if someone else is logging in to an account to complete these tasks. IPs tell you nothing useful due to VPNs or Tor. This could also be done by relaying the questions to the third party over a platform such as Telegram or Discord, so bypassing the account login altogether.

I wouldn't be against having to prove some basic bitcoin knowledge in addition to earning merit in order to rank up from newbie, but providing it as an alternate route to ranking up (i.e. bypassing merit) is too open to abuse.

At some point in the past I believed quiz type floodgates may be useful at some (early) stage. I probably though so when the forum was thriving with spam (even after the Merit System was set in motion), but interesting as it may seem subjectively, objectively it seems:

- Easily cheatable: There can only be so many questions to a Quiz on a given topic. Even if you randomize the questions, eventually the will end-up in an external document or database (by crowd-reporting of the questions) and made accessible to all, defeating the purpose.

- The idea of a forum having mandatory quizzes taken at some point seems like an overkill. One thing is taking a quiz for fun, but another is having to do it at some stage/s as part of the procedure to participate in the forum.

Yes, knowledge quiz/test should be one legit way of earning a merit,
without interacting with other users, and it can be limited per rank.
Easier questions for lower ranks, harder for higher ranks.
It should be optional, not mandatory (excluding registration)




Basic registration quiz would be FORUM RULES related,
so I don't see any harm in that, and it would benefit and help users break less rules,
as 90% users even don't know what the rules are, and they get banned even if they don`t have malicious intentions.

And even if they cheat, they will learn forum rules better, by simply repeating it.
Detect what rules are most often broken and create questions.

I really wish this would be made a priority. Far too many people are completely ignorant to the rules and oblivious as to what to do here. A simple and short message is all we need detailing the most commonly broken rules and links to further guides and stickies that go into depth about things so they can read up on them if they wish. So many people just have no idea where to even find this stuff and Meta is usually the last board they go into so being directed to these threads when they sign up will be very helpful.

Is there a way this could be done by a forum member. Maybe not in real time but within a few days. Given that new account creations are monitored by a few people couldn't we PM them. I don't know how hard it would be for someone to automate it to do this every couple of days or as new records are available.

It could even be labeled as an unofficial welcome message.

With the current number of registrations per month being in the 22k/month area (see Statistics of user registrations on Bitcointalk 2017-2019 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4685601.0)) youd need an account with over 250 Activity + whitelisted in order to be able to tackle that number of registries (managing up to the max. limit of 1200 PMs per day – see New PM limits (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2536728.0)). If the number of registered users went back to what most of 2018 numbers were, a single account could not tackle the amount of PMs it woud need to send.

Even so, for the message to be most effective it should be in my opinion in real-time, upon registration, and not a deferred PM. In addition, the potential PM sending account, being non-official, could be considered spam technically, so the more official the solution the better really.

Edit:
No, I wasn’t aware until now. Still making it a trigger or alike sort of feature thar sends a PM and/or displays a pop-up seems rather simple. The issue I figure is not implementing the message, but rather more deciding the content of the message.

Of course to complicate matters a notch, ideally it should be available in the language of the user, either first hand (i.e. when subscribing - select language for welcome message) or accessible later on (which loses efficiency).  Default English is perhaps good enough, although many non-native would not grasp the depth of the content, but rather more a watered down version of it's content.

Given that we already have hundreds of thousands of clueless users who never had a welcome message, it should also be linked from the the "Post reply" page, e.g.:

https://meem.link/i/a/ZNh4w5.jpg
Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

Yes, I know this has been suggested before... just reiterating it because why not.

I think you overlooked the fact that said account can have 30 recipients per PM, making it possible to reach 36000 users per day.
A bot could send 1 PM every 72 seconds, with up to 30 new users that receive a PM almost instantly after registration.
It could be an account with a name like "WelcomeNewUser", and maybe Staff status to make it look official.

I agree, but until something is implemented by the Admins anything is better than nothing our message may not be perfect but could still be effective. The "unnofficial" was in line with the labeling of the rules we currently have (Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ) and for complete clarity on that this is a community message - which might be a good intro that some systems within  the forum are community driven as opposed to moderated. I don't agree it could be labelled as spam as long as the content adds value.

With most things if it wasn't to hard for someone to implement, go for it. If theymos doesn't like it he will speak to it, or ask the individual to stop. There also would be nothing preventing theymos from implementing his polished message if/when it's complete. Then there would no longer be a need to continue this interim measure.


For local board languages it may be worth just posting links at the top of the message in the languages we currently have local boards for. As time goes on I'm sure someone would translate the message from each board and it could be linked to that post.

Bump. This topic just came to my mind when discussing the forum's alleged unfriendliness towards newcomers here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5307119.msg56051875#msg56051875). Even if it's too long I don't think it's a bad idea, better something than nothing, and I'd expect people registering their accounts on Internet forums in 2021 to be more inclined to read a bit than their discordian-twitterati counterparts. I also like suchmoon's idea from a couple posts above (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5036308.msg52079378#msg52079378).

Anything would be better than nothing, but I think we should keep the initial message as short and sweet as possible but with links to read more in depth things. If people are blasted with a load of information at the start they're less likely to read it, but they should be encouraged to do so. If they don't and they break the rules then that's their fault.

Above all else:

Users should be redirected immediately to the rules of the forum before any activity.
A further introduction into the various systems (i.e. trust, activity, merit, ranks) are relevant only after this.

---

This would at least let people discover, "scams aren't moderated?!"

I never saw this thread at the time it was started, I've had a scroll read of the OP's post. It has the basis of being something useful. Was it ever enabled, or, was it just another though bubble that fizzled out rather quickly?

In any event, shorena and others have comprehensive lists of links to just about every thread you'll ever need as a newbie (and not so newbie) links to their links are warranted.

Specific mention should be made concerning shorena's "how to sign a message" thread.

Mention should also be made specifically pointing out the paradoxical assertion users can have many Alts, but nowadays users have woken up to the inherently obvious that the trade of such forum accounts is now frowned upon and users such as myself have banded together to investigate and expose Alts that are scamming such as by claiming from the same Signature Campaigns (SigCamp).

Thanks for reading.

Having a welcome message is indeed a great addition,

May I suggest to what my idea is worth, a follow-through like a test/quiz/assessment for the new users.
Like navigation, and if they have at least comprehended the welcome message.


Aside from what dkbit98 mentioned, questions/tests that educate newcomers.
Name it Bitcointalk Readiness Assessment, to educate and not to intimidate.

In fact, we have a large number of members who have little understanding of English or don't speak English at all, so the basic forum rules should also translate into all local languages on the forum.
Also, many new members don't have experience with internet forums.
I also see that many new members do not have enough knowledge and experience about crypto and bitcoin and write bad quality posts.
The welcome message will not solve all these problems but will help and should be introduced as soon as possible.

Part of the problem is with those users using their bad English skills to try and create replies in the primarily English-based sections, whether it's for signature campaigns or to farm posts. Take a look, for example, in the Off-topic section and at some of the replies from the Wall of shame (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4564216.0).

---

Was thinking of a way to make it easier for Newbies to be able to discover rules - could links that lead new users to relevant guides when they run into restrictions - for example, when they hit post limits perhaps a hyperlink on that "wait 6 minutes" page, to the process of ranking up (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2766177.0) by hilariousandco.

Just a thought.

I think that some basic education at forum registration is needed now more than ever, and we can translate that in other languages but google is also getting better in translations.
I don't expect miracles from welcome message but any improvement would be good, as I found it harder to find normal discussions now.

I mentioned somewhere that there should be links to the translated rules/guides as well.

I wouldn't mention things like trust, DT, the different type of flags, and things like that at all. That will just confuse newbies and maybe have them look for alternative sites to discuss bitcoin and crypto. For ordinary members, doing any changes with the default trust setup is something most never even do.

Making users pass a quiz and testing their knowledge might be too much. That is just giving them a reason to go away even before they started. Displaying a message with the most important rules and warnings why people get banned here should be enough.

That is not hard to get. You will find many members from the local communities who will help with that. Many local boards already have the rules translated in their boards. Compiling all those links in one post isn't hard. The only question is, will that ever be used or is the person doing that just wasting his time? We have been talking about the welcome message for years now and we still are.   

That's my point: the bottom line is that Newbies should be introduced to the rules of the forum.

Anything that is related to business or transactions should be dealt separately once the user is integrated into the SMF system. By placing guides to certain difficult forum concepts when they most prominently arise: maximum post error page linking to the h+c rank guide, an actual link to the forum rules when you get a post deleted by a moderator, a confirmation warning when clicking on Newbie/flagged-user links, etc.

---

How about a rank-up quiz? That shouldn't be too bad, should it? Then, people can't feign ignorance when they complain about bans.

That's one of the things that should be linked to for further reading but it probably doesn't need to be given straight away. You could maybe give a warning about potential scams and how to look after your own money but the initial message should just include the most important rules as simply as possible so people don't get turned off by blocks of text and complicated rules, but people should be urged to read all the available links to rules/guides etc. If they don't then that's their fault.


I don't think people should have to take a test just to post here. It's just a message board at the end of the day and some people just want a quick question answered or whatever and shouldn't have to jump through hoops to do so so a quiz would probably be too off putting, especially to the average user and theymos is unlikely to do it. The answers to pass would just show up on a google search anyway and people would just google for them if they got stuck.


Well only theymos (and maybe cyrus) can do that, but it should be made a priority and it looks like it's something most people want. It shouldn't be too difficult to include it in the current sign up process.

The rate-limit error page:
https://i.imgur.com/bkm3YOk.png

Simply change that to this:

The last posting from your IP was less than <time> seconds ago. Please try again later. The thing you were trying to post was saved as a draft (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=drafts). This limit decreases substantially as your account becomes more established (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2766177.0).


Thread is pinned so it must be good, right? You can get rid of most of those "how do I rank up?" threads when we can simply direct people to the answer during the first thing they'll probably encounter when they start posting.

---

And... something should be done about the off-site links in the Marketplace sections.

What do you mean specifically? Ebay links with no mention of accepting BTC? (dealt with when reported) Other marketplaces accepting Bitcoin which make transacting more convenient but attract scammers with their (often locked) self-moderated threads? (a warning bar will show up but people need to keep flagging these accounts) Something else?

Yeah, it would be helpful to link to it there. The more times we give people this info the more people will be aware/educated about the rules and have it drilled into them. As I've said before, for most Meta is usually the last place people go hence why people don't know most of the rules and even then there's a lot of info thrown at them with multiple guides/stickies hence why it would be good to condense it and link to them for further reading.


Probably means the autobuy links. Probably at least 95% of them are scams. In these instances that's why I think a landing page with a warning would be helpful. Surprisingly a lot of people get scammed by these. Not sure why people would randomly trust these users but they do.

Any autobuy link should be prefaced with some kind of disclaimer.

I would even just say that all non-bitcointalk URLs in the Marketplace child boards should have the landing page, with particular emphasis on how ranks don't equate to trust. I believe part of the factor is still that Newbies are unaware of two major differences in this forum: scams are not moderated, and rank titles mean nothing. Until this is displayed in bold letters when you sign into the forum or until there's something to lead people towards this realization, I don't think Newbie problems are going to end easily. A slew of new scam accusations popped up as well regarding off-site deals via external messaging channels - though users should know better - concerning that hole in knowledge and I'm sure that it's more prevalent in the cases that aren't publicized.

I'm a newbie and can absolutely confirm this. I got scammed (here's my report https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5300411.msg55837909 ) and although I agree that I should have used escrow to protect myself better, I was kind of shocked how things about scams are handled in this forum. In my case it wasn't an autobuy link but messaging directly with this scammer, found with a Google search and with apparently no negative feedback (but multiple positive ones). Getting in touch with the scammer on Telegram was much more convenient and quick for me, instead of registering on this forum (which I didn't need to do, since his contact details are publicly available).

After he scammed me, I registered to open a scam report, but in my case I registered only AFTER being scammed. So imho any disclaimer you guys are discussing should appear not only when you register but also when browse as a public guest. I feel it's really easy for a newbie to take the same route I took.

Additionally I expected the scammer to get at least be banned quickly and was astonished that despite countless reports and proof (even crisp video proof at one point) no action was going to be taken. In other communities I take part of, scammers like that don't last longer than a day - especially not if they barely provide any conclusive proof in their defense when there is a growing number of reports and unsolved question marks.

IIRC, the newbie warning flag is shown to newbies and members below a certain number of days logged in, but for this to appear the member needs to already have active flags. Not sure how effective it is at this time and more policies to protect members from scam would always be welcome; Maybe a warning at the top of certain boards (visible to guests and members) where trades are more likely to happen.

Scams are not moderated, so the mods cannot take actions against scam posts or members who make them. There has been lots of discussion about whether to moderate scams and the consensus seems to oppose it as it could give users a feeling of faux security that any unhandled case isn't a scam.

The DT system is in place to warn against scams, but as all systems, it's not a 100% efficient.

How about that welcome message?

**Taking the stage, deep breaths. . . .**

Welcome Message!(sample)

Yey, you've made it. Let me welcome you to the largest, bitcoin forum. This is a community-driven forum which aims to be a platform for bitcoin users to exchange ideas and thoughts about the industry. This forum achieved its current prestige by being reasonably strict, and with the help of the community, bitcointalk continues to educate, promote and nurture the minds of bitcoin-ers.

Like you, each and every member here was a Newbie once. Whilst some are smart enough to avoid common pitfalls and dodge awkward conversations, there are those who unfortunately have to deal with these sticky situations. Imagine moving to a new place, or country, or a new school with a different atmosphere, language and norms. In order for you to get the most out of every discussion, a newbie must have a basic understanding of the subject/board/stuff. Lucky for you because it will be easy as 1-2-3. Before you ask this and that, or request for an unpaid advice, take a look at the Pinned posts, (those posts in the beginning of every board, and they have a "pin" icon to make it easier to identify.

Being familiar with the content of the Pinned posts would accelerate your awareness of what to do, and what not to do. This will also lessen the risk of you being schooled which often involves a unique but can be unpleasant tone from "tenured" members of the community. Well, if ever you get that, just do not take it personal, instead, think of it as an accent of bitcointalk members.

(brain lagged)
to be continued or not. . .

 

This message of yours looks like an introduction where the main points are missing. It's good as an intro, but it doesn't get to the essence of things. The aim of the welcome message should be to guide those who sign up and inform them about what they are allowed and not allowed to do. Your welcome message points them towards other pinned messages instead of mentioning the main points, such as spamming, copy-pasting, scamming, etc.   

Hey, I think they've heard.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=help

if you go to that link you would see a very good introduction.

No, that's some default user readme that comes with SMF, and lacks a lot of information users should be well aware of, such as ranks, merits, the Trust systems, the proliferation of scams, forum culture, rules, etc.

It looks kinda new, but even if its not, arent those what a welcome message must contain?

No, most of the info there is pretty obvious to anyone who is not new to the Internet, and would only serve to increase the likelihood that the new user doesn't even bother to read the whole thing if he sees how long it is. If it were new the logging and registration sections would at least mention CAPTCHAs, the Copper Membership, evil IP addresses, data retention policy, etc.

There is still no welcome message to newbie but I am not new actually been registered and been away for a while and forget my account.

Anyway, I was gonna thought that writing a welcome message for newbie is very important. Just highlight the rulings especially about permban in which most of the time I have observe it here specifically in this section.

Anyway, if they are not here for bounty hunting then that would better and low chances they will going to violate rulings in the forum. Mostly bounty hunters turn to cheaters when they able to realize that money is not really going to be earn the fast and easy way. Bounty hunters are everywhere in the forum and I guess when we will going to put a ration between bounty hunters and users that are here to learn will be having a huge difference. Probably in my estimte would be 9 bounty hunters out of 10 users here in the forum which means 90% were bounty hunters.

I would probably like a warning about the disconnect/non-relation between ranks and the trustworthiness of a user. Probably another caveat would be to never trust anyone blindly, and a few nudges towards the sticky threads.

As it currently stands, a Newbie would have to wander into the Meta board and notice the "Unofficial rules" thread to get started on learning about the forum.

Meta is usually the last place newbs go hence why they need to be directed to the rules upon sign-up. I'd also like to see some warnings in certain boards that maybe are only displayed to newbies/Juniors and they go away when you achieve Member rank or something (or you can just turn them off in the settings) but I think these warnings would be good reminders to people to use caution and will at least save some users from being scammed.

Found this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177133.msg1844234#msg1844234) entitled:
Newbie Readme by tysat (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=17261)

Also  this post  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15918.0) by Anonymous Guest.

If you're not going to disable signature campaigns, can you make the default signature link to the forum rule thread? ;)

I like it! How about doing this only for the first 7 days for new accounts or the first 5 posts (whatever comes first)? Copper Members should of course be able to instantly change it.

To be, or not to be, that is the question

Will it exist or not?

That's a really well-written welcome message! I think it strikes a very nice balance (i.e. instructional/foreboding/inspiring) and I think it's a real shame that 4 years worth of new members haven't been exposed to it...

In my opinion, by giving theymos a lot of ill-considered feedback, the community really shot itself in the foot on this one.

I've whitelisted over 200 users (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5350260.msg57505682#msg57505682) who ran into a proxyban. When I approve them, I email them this:
I don't know how many people read the rules from this link, but so far, only 1% of them has been banned.

@theymos: have you considered actmyname's suggestion?
If each Newbie has a signature saying "Welcome to Bitcointalk! Please check the rules a bit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0 :)", that would give massive exposure to the rules in the threads where Newbies post spam the most.

I think that after the ban is removed, a message will appear in red containing, "You can post now" or something like that, adding this text to that message will be easy (no codes needed,) or sending a personal  welcome message as soon as we click on the Whitelist button.

It reminds me that in the past you have included me on that whitelisted without making request. I'm really thankful that you solved my problem back then so I could actually report a lot of posts even though I realize it only lasts until my rank becomes full member.

I hope not many of them miss that message if they're really newbie, but if the exposure will be better with other upgrades then I should probably agree with the good advice.