Writing a welcome message

[dkbit98]

Probably true... BUT we could add rule that restrict that service and ban users for cheating

That would be impossible to enforce. There's no way to tell if someone else is logging in to an account to complete these tasks. IPs tell you nothing useful due to VPNs or Tor. This could also be done by relaying the questions to the third party over a platform such as Telegram or Discord, so bypassing the account login altogether.

I wouldn't be against having to prove some basic bitcoin knowledge in addition to earning merit in order to rank up from newbie, but providing it as an alternate route to ranking up (i.e. bypassing merit) is too open to abuse.

Yes, knowledge quiz/test should be one legit way of earning a merit,
without interacting with other users, and it can be limited per rank.
Easier questions for lower ranks, harder for higher ranks.
It should be optional, not mandatory (excluding registration)

<…>

At some point in the past I believed quiz type floodgates may be useful at some (early) stage. I probably though so when the forum was thriving with spam (even after the Merit System was set in motion), but interesting as it may seem subjectively, objectively it seems:

- Easily cheatable: There can only be so many questions to a Quiz on a given topic. Even if you randomize the questions, eventually the will end-up in an external document or database (by crowd-reporting of the questions) and made accessible to all, defeating the purpose.

- The idea of a forum having mandatory quizzes taken at some point seems like an overkill. One thing is taking a quiz for fun, but another is having to do it at some stage/s as part of the procedure to participate in the forum.

Basic registration quiz would be FORUM RULES related,
so I don't see any harm in that, and it would benefit and help users break less rules,
as 90% users even don't know what the rules are, and they get banned even if they don`t have malicious intentions.

And even if they cheat, they will learn forum rules better, by simply repeating it.
Detect what rules are most often broken and create questions.

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[hilariousetc]

I really wish this would be made a priority. Far too many people are completely ignorant to the rules and oblivious as to what to do here. A simple and short message is all we need detailing the most commonly broken rules and links to further guides and stickies that go into depth about things so they can read up on them if they wish. So many people just have no idea where to even find this stuff and Meta is usually the last board they go into so being directed to these threads when they sign up will be very helpful.

[Steamtyme]

Is there a way this could be done by a forum member. Maybe not in real time but within a few days. Given that new account creations are monitored by a few people couldn't we PM them. I don't know how hard it would be for someone to automate it to do this every couple of days or as new records are available.

It could even be labeled as an unofficial welcome message.

[DdmrDdmr]

<...>

With the current number of registrations per month being in the 22k/month area (see Statistics of user registrations on Bitcointalk 2017-2019) youd need an account with over 250 Activity + whitelisted in order to be able to tackle that number of registries (managing up to the max. limit of 1200 PMs per day – see New PM limits). If the number of registered users went back to what most of 2018 numbers were, a single account could not tackle the amount of PMs it woud need to send.

Even so, for the message to be most effective it should be in my opinion in real-time, upon registration, and not a deferred PM. In addition, the potential PM sending account, being non-official, could be considered spam technically, so the more official the solution the better really.

Edit:

<…> I think you overlooked the fact that said account can have 30 recipients per PM, making it possible to reach 36000 users per day. <…>

No, I wasn’t aware until now. Still making it a trigger or alike sort of feature thar sends a PM and/or displays a pop-up seems rather simple. The issue I figure is not implementing the message, but rather more deciding the content of the message.

Of course to complicate matters a notch, ideally it should be available in the language of the user, either first hand (i.e. when subscribing - select language for welcome message) or accessible later on (which loses efficiency).  Default English is perhaps good enough, although many non-native would not grasp the depth of the content, but rather more a watered down version of it's content.

[suchmoon]

Given that we already have hundreds of thousands of clueless users who never had a welcome message, it should also be linked from the the "Post reply" page, e.g.:


Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

Yes, I know this has been suggested before... just reiterating it because why not.

[LoyceV]

With the current number of registrations per month being in the 22k/month area (see Statistics of user registrations on Bitcointalk 2017-2019) youd need an account with over 250 Activity + whitelisted in order to be able to tackle that number of registries (managing up to the max. limit of 1200 PMs per day – see New PM limits). If the number of registered users went back to what most of 2018 numbers were, a single account could not tackle the amount of PMs it woud need to send.

I think you overlooked the fact that said account can have 30 recipients per PM, making it possible to reach 36000 users per day.
A bot could send 1 PM every 72 seconds, with up to 30 new users that receive a PM almost instantly after registration.
It could be an account with a name like "WelcomeNewUser", and maybe Staff status to make it look official.

[Steamtyme]

Even so, for the message to be most effective it should be in my opinion in real-time, upon registration, and not a deferred PM. In addition, the potential PM sending account, being non-official, could be considered spam technically, so the more official the solution the better really.
Edit:

<…> I think you overlooked the fact that said account can have 30 recipients per PM, making it possible to reach 36000 users per day. <…>

No, I wasn’t aware until now. Still making it a trigger or alike sort of feature thar sends a PM and/or displays a pop-up seems rather simple. The issue I figure is not implementing the message, but rather more deciding the content of the message.

I agree, but until something is implemented by the Admins anything is better than nothing our message may not be perfect but could still be effective. The "unnofficial" was in line with the labeling of the rules we currently have (Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ) and for complete clarity on that this is a community message - which might be a good intro that some systems within  the forum are community driven as opposed to moderated. I don't agree it could be labelled as spam as long as the content adds value.

With most things if it wasn't to hard for someone to implement, go for it. If theymos doesn't like it he will speak to it, or ask the individual to stop. There also would be nothing preventing theymos from implementing his polished message if/when it's complete. Then there would no longer be a need to continue this interim measure.

Of course to complicate matters a notch, ideally it should be available in the language of the user, either first hand (i.e. when subscribing - select language for welcome message) or accessible later on (which loses efficiency).  Default English is perhaps good enough, although many non-native would not grasp the depth of the content, but rather more a watered down version of it's content.

For local board languages it may be worth just posting links at the top of the message in the languages we currently have local boards for. As time goes on I'm sure someone would translate the message from each board and it could be linked to that post.

[malevolent]

Bump. This topic just came to my mind when discussing the forum's alleged unfriendliness towards newcomers here. Even if it's too long I don't think it's a bad idea, better something than nothing, and I'd expect people registering their accounts on Internet forums in 2021 to be more inclined to read a bit than their discordian-twitterati counterparts. I also like suchmoon's idea from a couple posts above.

[hilariousandco]

Anything would be better than nothing, but I think we should keep the initial message as short and sweet as possible but with links to read more in depth things. If people are blasted with a load of information at the start they're less likely to read it, but they should be encouraged to do so. If they don't and they break the rules then that's their fault.

[actmyname]

If they don't and they break the rules then that's their fault.

Above all else:

Users should be redirected immediately to the rules of the forum before any activity.
A further introduction into the various systems (i.e. trust, activity, merit, ranks) are relevant only after this.This would at least let people discover, "scams aren't moderated?!"

[Timelord2067]

I never saw this thread at the time it was started, I've had a scroll read of the OP's post. It has the basis of being something useful. Was it ever enabled, or, was it just another though bubble that fizzled out rather quickly?

In any event, shorena and others have comprehensive lists of links to just about every thread you'll ever need as a newbie (and not so newbie) links to their links are warranted.

Specific mention should be made concerning shorena's "how to sign a message" thread.

Mention should also be made specifically pointing out the paradoxical assertion users can have many Alts, but nowadays users have woken up to the inherently obvious that the trade of such forum accounts is now frowned upon and users such as myself have banded together to investigate and expose Alts that are scamming such as by claiming from the same Signature Campaigns (SigCamp).

Thanks for reading.

[jamyr]

Having a welcome message is indeed a great addition,

May I suggest to what my idea is worth, a follow-through like a test/quiz/assessment for the new users.
Like navigation, and if they have at least comprehended the welcome message.

I would like to see this introduced in Bitcointalk forum.

Quiz/test knowledge messages can be used for:

- Registration  (to prevent bot/spam users asking them to read forum rules and basic Bitcoin faq, and then answer them)
- for Ranking Up  (extra way to rank up with answering quiz/test of knowledge)
- preventing users break forum rules (by educating them with quiz/test and rewarding with merit if they pass)

It can be useful for:

- educating users
- preventing spam/bots
- improving merit and ranking system
- improving Bitcointalk forum

Aside from what dkbit98 mentioned, questions/tests that educate newcomers.
Name it Bitcointalk Readiness Assessment, to educate and not to intimidate.

[Daniel91]

I really wish this would be made a priority. Far too many people are completely ignorant to the rules and oblivious as to what to do here. A simple and short message is all we need detailing the most commonly broken rules and links to further guides and stickies that go into depth about things so they can read up on them if they wish. So many people just have no idea where to even find this stuff and Meta is usually the last board they go into so being directed to these threads when they sign up will be very helpful.

In fact, we have a large number of members who have little understanding of English or don't speak English at all, so the basic forum rules should also translate into all local languages on the forum.
Also, many new members don't have experience with internet forums.
I also see that many new members do not have enough knowledge and experience about crypto and bitcoin and write bad quality posts.
The welcome message will not solve all these problems but will help and should be introduced as soon as possible.

[actmyname]

In fact, we have a large number of members who have little understanding of English or don't speak English at all, so the basic forum rules should also translate into all local languages on the forum.

Part of the problem is with those users using their bad English skills to try and create replies in the primarily English-based sections, whether it's for signature campaigns or to farm posts. Take a look, for example, in the Off-topic section and at some of the replies from the Wall of shame.

Aside from what dkbit98 mentioned, questions/tests that educate newcomers.
Name it Bitcointalk Readiness Assessment, to educate and not to intimidate.

Was thinking of a way to make it easier for Newbies to be able to discover rules - could links that lead new users to relevant guides when they run into restrictions - for example, when they hit post limits perhaps a hyperlink on that "wait 6 minutes" page, to the process of ranking up by hilariousandco.

Just a thought.

[dkbit98]

I think that some basic education at forum registration is needed now more than ever, and we can translate that in other languages but google is also getting better in translations.
I don't expect miracles from welcome message but any improvement would be good, as I found it harder to find normal discussions now.

[hilariousandco]

I really wish this would be made a priority. Far too many people are completely ignorant to the rules and oblivious as to what to do here. A simple and short message is all we need detailing the most commonly broken rules and links to further guides and stickies that go into depth about things so they can read up on them if they wish. So many people just have no idea where to even find this stuff and Meta is usually the last board they go into so being directed to these threads when they sign up will be very helpful.

In fact, we have a large number of members who have little understanding of English or don't speak English at all, so the basic forum rules should also translate into all local languages on the forum.
Also, many new members don't have experience with internet forums.
I also see that many new members do not have enough knowledge and experience about crypto and bitcoin and write bad quality posts.
The welcome message will not solve all these problems but will help and should be introduced as soon as possible.

I mentioned somewhere that there should be links to the translated rules/guides as well.

[Pmalek]

A further introduction into the various systems (i.e. trust, activity, merit, ranks) are relevant only after this.

I wouldn't mention things like trust, DT, the different type of flags, and things like that at all. That will just confuse newbies and maybe have them look for alternative sites to discuss bitcoin and crypto. For ordinary members, doing any changes with the default trust setup is something most never even do.

May I suggest to what my idea is worth, a follow-through like a test/quiz/assessment for the new users.
Like navigation, and if they have at least comprehended the welcome message.

Making users pass a quiz and testing their knowledge might be too much. That is just giving them a reason to go away even before they started. Displaying a message with the most important rules and warnings why people get banned here should be enough.

I mentioned somewhere that there should be links to the translated rules/guides as well.

That is not hard to get. You will find many members from the local communities who will help with that. Many local boards already have the rules translated in their boards. Compiling all those links in one post isn't hard. The only question is, will that ever be used or is the person doing that just wasting his time? We have been talking about the welcome message for years now and we still are.   

[actmyname]

A further introduction into the various systems (i.e. trust, activity, merit, ranks) are relevant only after this.

I wouldn't mention things like trust, DT, the different type of flags, and things like that at all. That will just confuse newbies and maybe have them look for alternative sites to discuss bitcoin and crypto. For ordinary members, doing any changes with the default trust setup is something most never even do.

That's my point: the bottom line is that Newbies should be introduced to the rules of the forum.

Anything that is related to business or transactions should be dealt separately once the user is integrated into the SMF system. By placing guides to certain difficult forum concepts when they most prominently arise: maximum post error page linking to the h+c rank guide, an actual link to the forum rules when you get a post deleted by a moderator, a confirmation warning when clicking on Newbie/flagged-user links, etc.

Making users pass a quiz and testing their knowledge might be too much. That is just giving them a reason to go away even before they started. Displaying a message with the most important rules and warnings why people get banned here should be enough.

How about a rank-up quiz? That shouldn't be too bad, should it? Then, people can't feign ignorance when they complain about bans.

[hilariousetc]

A further introduction into the various systems (i.e. trust, activity, merit, ranks) are relevant only after this.

I wouldn't mention things like trust, DT, the different type of flags, and things like that at all. That will just confuse newbies and maybe have them look for alternative sites to discuss bitcoin and crypto. For ordinary members, doing any changes with the default trust setup is something most never even do.

That's one of the things that should be linked to for further reading but it probably doesn't need to be given straight away. You could maybe give a warning about potential scams and how to look after your own money but the initial message should just include the most important rules as simply as possible so people don't get turned off by blocks of text and complicated rules, but people should be urged to read all the available links to rules/guides etc. If they don't then that's their fault.

May I suggest to what my idea is worth, a follow-through like a test/quiz/assessment for the new users.
Like navigation, and if they have at least comprehended the welcome message.

Making users pass a quiz and testing their knowledge might be too much. That is just giving them a reason to go away even before they started. Displaying a message with the most important rules and warnings why people get banned here should be enough.

I don't think people should have to take a test just to post here. It's just a message board at the end of the day and some people just want a quick question answered or whatever and shouldn't have to jump through hoops to do so so a quiz would probably be too off putting, especially to the average user and theymos is unlikely to do it. The answers to pass would just show up on a google search anyway and people would just google for them if they got stuck.

I mentioned somewhere that there should be links to the translated rules/guides as well.

That is not hard to get. You will find many members from the local communities who will help with that. Many local boards already have the rules translated in their boards. Compiling all those links in one post isn't hard. The only question is, will that ever be used or is the person doing that just wasting his time? We have been talking about the welcome message for years now and we still are.   

Well only theymos (and maybe cyrus) can do that, but it should be made a priority and it looks like it's something most people want. It shouldn't be too difficult to include it in the current sign up process.

[actmyname]

That's one of the things that should be linked to for further reading but it probably doesn't need to be given straight away.

The rate-limit error page:


Simply change that to this:

The last posting from your IP was less than <time> seconds ago. Please try again later. The thing you were trying to post was saved as a draft. This limit decreases substantially as your account becomes more established.

Code:

The last posting from your IP was less than <time> seconds ago. Please try again later. The thing you were trying to post was saved as a [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=drafts]draft[/url]. This limit decreases substantially as your account [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2766177.0]becomes more established[/url].

Thread is pinned so it must be good, right? You can get rid of most of those "how do I rank up?" threads when we can simply direct people to the answer during the first thing they'll probably encounter when they start posting.And... something should be done about the off-site links in the Marketplace sections.