Bitcoin Forum

So we all know bitcoin has a fixed supply. The store of value is there. However when it comes to trading and everyday transactions, we all know we can't use bitcoin sustainably. I've been really exploring stablecoins lately and I'm not really into fiat coins. I think they go against crypto period.

Has anyone looked into Ampleforth (formerly Fragments)? Instead of having a store of wealth, they'r every much like bitcoin where they focus on store of value, BUT they also included the unit of account. Essentially they maintain a price target and uses a protocol to inflate/deflate "amples" proportionally to the market change. So you will always have the same value in your wallet, but the quantity of "amples" can change

Thoughts on this??

is the price equivalent to bitcoin? I don't know much about this yet, but to compete against bitcoin, it's a very difficult thing even though you don't like it, maybe it can replicate all the systems that bitcoin does, and get a good price from the system development

In my opinion. It's hard to compare between crypto currencies and independent money. but both are elements that cannot be separated at this time. because to get crypto currency, we must issue capital, namely independent currency.

My thoughts are very simple, I am still beginning to understand that today very many banking sectors have already invested in cryptocurrency and are already very actively working to make money on us. Therefore, in any case, no one will destroy the product that brings money.

The price isn't equivalent to bitcoin but ampleforth serves as a unit of account and store of wealth. This is the analogy they have on their site (https://www.ampleforth.org/)

"// 1. The Bitcoin Model

Adam purchases 1 Bitcoin at $1, demand increases and he now has 1 Bitcoin worth $4000.

// 2. The Ampleforth Model

Betty purchases 1 Ample at $1, demand increases and she now has 4000 Amples each worth $1."

Can you help me understand this model. Is it like this:

each Ample holder receives a proportional share of their coins when demand increases?

If yes, what about the coins that are not allocated at that time (not in circulation)? Are they also inflated?

I am sure Bitcoin will have a mature future and will be widely adopted and recognized by everyone that bitcoin is a very unique and useful alternative currency for payment system assistance

ampleforth algo works just like the state bank of the country to controll the inflation but in ampleforth it is price that they want to keep stable.. this is what i understand of ampleforth if anyone here can tell how exactly anples works

With BTC failing as a peer to peer value network the most promising replacement is Elixxir, David Chaum's new project.  It manages to excel at security, speed, scalability and low cost while being environmentally friendly.  He has a novel consensus mechanism.  I'll be looking to invest hopefully before its tokenized and on public exchanges. 

In our time, it is difficult for me to consider bitcoin and cash as separate components. Now they interact with each other and contribute to the development of the crypt as an independent payment unit.

 I believe in the bright future of bitcoin, because it is not cool, it is in fact that would not say Banks is replacing Fiat paper money, and the entire financial system begins to change markets, and there to transfer money, so bankers and major players are silent especially, and when everything goes there and they will lead the market, just say)

Do not stress much bitcoin is solod and it will come back sooner or later, you talked about its scalability issues so do not forget that a solution called lightening network is already under testing phase that when implemented will resolve these issues.
Secondly you talked about another project called fragments that increase or decrease in quantity with fiat value, i think again this concept cannot be what we need in crypro world this concept supports fiat and is more like fiat alternative nothing else.

I always support such comments because I can confidently say that Bitcoin will really have serious value as soon as it really starts to be regulated and recognized in other countries.

I think the best way to go about Ampleforth is reading their whitepaper (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-NmSnQ6E7wY1nyouuf-GuDdJWNCnJWl/view) and then going into their Telegram and asking the CEO. They're honestly pretty active on there.

Telegram: https://t.me/Ampleforth

So they basically want to create a coin that is a stable but that doesn't rely on fiat to obtain that stability, that is interesting but it is a concept that is going to fail, one of the most important characteristics of bitcoin is that no one can manipulate the amount of bitcoin that you have in your wallet, and it seems that coin goes against that so many people are not going to like it.

I see not only independent money that trying to compete Bitcoin. Now, so many ICO projects have a mission to rival Bitcoin, even Ethereum too.
However, all are still just plans, right? If Apleforth is really potential to compete Bitcoin, you need to provide more detailed and applicative reasons to explain it.
If we talk about potential, I think there are many other projects that have a vision and mission but are still limited to a roadmap and do not really compete Bitcoin in reality.

Lol david chaum's crypto just another altcoin and no more. Just because you are XRP shills and then you are comparing bitcoin with elixxir. Even XRP can't replace bitcoin and does it make sense to create such a comparison?

Volatily is something that already planted in crypto, even since it is on first time no matter what purpose when create that coin/token, because when it is on market, price is depend on supply and demand. I think if make stable coin, it means it is only for internal transaction for community inside that coin.

No, I do not agree with you. Volatility is a process that is born directly in the period when something new comes to the market, something that is really very unknown to people, which eventually becomes known only after the infusion of funds.

How is it going to fail?? I think what they're trying to do is not compete with bitcoin, but provide an alternative currency for everyday use. Their whole concept is that you will have the same worth in your wallet (ie $100) but in terms of "amples" that number will change based on the market. They do that through their elastic supply protocol that inflates/deflates amples to match demand.

I recommend reading their wp - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-NmSnQ6E7wY1nyouuf-GuDdJWNCnJWl/view

Bitcoin transactions are slow. It is highly impractible to pay for anything in a retail store, when you have to wait up to 30 minutes for the transaction to be confirmed.

Today it is not as long as you think, but such a problem really exists and I hope that it will be solved very soon, you probably also heard about Lightning. It is already there and everything is already working there.

Let us be with you will really look at this world, because it is this world today that is real. Today, in most cases, it turns out that people do not understand what cryptocurrency and blockchain are, today these are like magic words for most people. They just won't understand.

indeed, between crypto money and independent money cannot be separated from our real life and both of these currencies are equally necessary because, if there is no crypto or independent money, we cannot carry out transactions related to money so that crypto and independent are suitable.

My thought about this is that, since it is not yet fully lunched, how are you sure it will keep up with its value, talk more of maintain some defined prices at different times.
Then apart from stating that the value will be maintained, how are you sure it can compete favourably with bitcoin?

Aint them all? Whatever it is they are the mimic of bitcoin. Limited supply and a stored value.

They all came from the idea of bitcoin and not fiat wherein you could not create anymore coin besides what is said on how much it is.
Could thing about this is there is no fake unlike fiat but there are copies. Just like BCH who have gained a lot of value even if it only came from bitcoin itself.

Actually that is the problem with cryptos. It is easily created by anyone by now and they say it is a legit project. Thank God satoshi did hide afterwards or else it could have been worst.

when you have a system as big as bitcoin you want to keep it at a balance. a balance between all the features of it. for example a balance between decentralization and transaction per second. a balance between the supply and the demand. and a lot more.
so you can't just take one thing like TPS and then analyze that alone. if you want to talk about a feature and its alternatives (like the PoW algorithm that people constantly talk about these days) you also have to talk about the pros and cons of the alternatives.
for example the coin you are introducing has sacrificed centralization and that is a no go for me.

Experts expect the current global currency market to grow to around $ 140 trillion in the next 10 years. The share of Fiat money will fall. Growth will be due to cryptocurrency. Their amount will be as much as 100 trillion. Bitcoin will provide about 10% of this market, or $ 10 trillion. Other coins will grow and surprise us.

Tim Draper is confident that bitcoin is moving higher  will soar to$ 250,000 by 2022.

the future of bitcoin nobody knows it could be better or worse. if we want the benefits of bitcoin depending on how we trade. a trader has a different method of trading, although now the market price is not stable, but they can benefit even a little.

Bitcoin will always be around, but yes I do see the need of something like ampleforth for stability and remittance. I took a crack at their whitepaper and it's very interesting.

wp: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-NmSnQ6E7wY1nyouuf-GuDdJWNCnJWl/view

Anyway bitcoin stay in our life. I think that soon bitcoin will rise and more strong. Its has very good future. BTC is number one and will survive

The other problem is that cryptocurrency is not accepted yet in some countries, then how can we use the coin to do any transactions. Actually, this cryptocurrency is created to make us easier in any activities in our life, but not all of the people know that.

I think that there are obmmy which pass not through the exchange. That is, some projects today still go through normal negotiations, respectively, these volumes are very large and they are not fixed at all and are being sold absolutely calmly.

There are new innovations into this world of cryptocurrency. There are more and more additions to various aspects of the blockchain. From scalability to PoW, to PoS, there is always something being added. So if Fragments is adding to the evolving of the blockchain is a welcome development.

Maybe I will say the wrong things, but in some respects today, only users who are not thinking about the Project, but are thinking about personal enrichment, deal with cryptocurrency. Perhaps it is because of this that today the cryptocurrency market suffers a big catastrophe.

IMHO, you need to consider Bitcoin not as a means of payment, transactions, but as a means of accumulation. You are not trying to transfer gold from one account to another? You are not trying to sell diamonds? So here, Bitcoin is a means of accumulating money.

Another question is what if the value of such token decrease in value, what will happen to the holdings of people?  Remember the market is not always going up.  There is a time that value decrease and since this is crypto there is a possibility that the value will decrease by more than 90%.   This kind of system is very complex and if ever they can reduce the holdings of people then this is no longer a decentralized cryptocurrency.

In our modern time, the cryptocurrency has already been introduced so well that without it it is impossible to manage. And personally, I think that the future is behind cryptocurrency. Researchers say that cryptocurrency today already performs one of the three main functions of money: to be a means of accumulation and saving. After all, most of those who bought a cryptocurrency do not perform other operations with it - they only store it. And they are waiting for them to grow up and it will be ten times more profit.

Trash321, lightning is working but the last time I checked early this year the project is still in beta stage but some project owners are still making use of it and I hope every was fix before next year we can all enjoy crypto at large.



Yes, thats the major problem affecting crypto because everything were base on the internet and people from the rural dont have access into the internet but with the help of new project which allow the use of cryptocurrency through text soon the problem will be solve and what we just need now is powerful people joining the community.

As long as the whole world is tied to the dollar, to trade any product or commodity in Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency does not make sense, because today you buy for $ 10, and tomorrow the same product will cost $ 100.

You should understand that Bitcoin is no longer used for payment. So it will no longer be the case as you say, since most current investors consider Bitcoin or altcoin to be speculative things like gold or stocks.

I think that the value of monetary units in the crypto market depends on supply and demand, therefore popularity and confidence in the market is crucial in pricing.

Actually Bitcoin was originally born as a currency not affected by any country. However, after it was traded, investors did not see it that way. And now it's a risky venture market, not like normal currencies

I don't know much about Ampleforth, but is the system better than other bitcoin or stabelcoin? but I'm not sure it will get better, or maybe a better investment

Today there are so many innovations that only improve the work of the blockchain as a whole, because as we all understand the work of the blockchain BTC today is really not at its best, because there is a great need for this, since the speed of payments is very slow.

but the development of the technology is not matched by the ability of the product to be brought, for example when a new development is received, the method used has a deficiency in the other side even in 1 scope which ultimately cannot be used in a large scope

The situation with technologies today is certainly extremely important, but if we are talking directly about BTC, then these are not just new opportunities for the payment system, this is a real way out of the enslaved monetary system, for example, the same dollar. I can confidently say that this is a normal way out of the situation.

the project has a good movement, if there is a new project that is very relevant to the situation and has good development we must always think again, instead who knows the project will lead us to the realm of renewal that will make us successful later

They don't look at the value of tokens, but their system goes by unit of account, so if you have $100 worth of amples in your wallet, it will stay at the value, but the quantity of amples will change based on how the market demand changes. So in this case, if the market decreases by 10%, your amount of amples in your wallet will decrease 10%.



I recommend reading their whitepaper: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I-NmSnQ6E7wY1nyouuf-GuDdJWNCnJWl/view

I do think in terms of stablecoins, they offer a very unique solution that solves central inflation

In the sense that bitcoin has its finite supply, there will be a chance that its price will go so much high if we already meet the total coins, we can compare this to a gold rather than ethereum with infinite supply.

If Crypto Currencies are to replace fiat money, of course there must be a tremendous transfer of value, and the

crypto - fiat conversion rates will wildly fluctuate. You cannot have a crypto revolution without similar boom / bust

cycles hitherto observed; it is not only a speculative opportunity, but also beneficial to the liberation of the individual.

Still don't really get what you were saying about that Ampleforth thing.
Perhaps you could provide a link so i could learn about that.

If we speak of cryptocurrencies as money that can be independent, then we are already very different from what may seem very futuristic to us. Although in general, the situation with independent money, I would say not very far.

I think that the future of all independent money is predetermined, at least while we are in the current value system. Financial giants are too tight on their feet, independent money will only reduce the amount of their profits and weaken their control, therefore independent money will turn into regulated financial instruments.

But why look at independent money as a means of financial gains versus a means of transacting without central inflation? Ampleforth's model is meant for remittance and the future of independent money will be a global movement imo

Bitcoin has prospects to be used as a full payment instrument in the future. But now this is far from the case. Whales are manipulating prices for this cryptocurrency. This makes it impossible to use Bitcoin as a full payment instrument.

Difficult wording. It is very hard for me to say now that the situation as a whole is very, very much showing global strength. Now, in reality, we all need to understand that now it would be best to take into account the fact that now the principle of operation is solely to expel all short-term investors.

The future is cryptocurrency, there is no doubt about it and those people at the top also known about this. In this year only most ICOs project that are successful got huge investments from institutional investors and organizations and to me this is a clear sign even those that own much in this world have trust in blockchain technology and Cryptocurrency.

Very intriguing concept imo ever since I heard about them. I see lots of potential and even though they are not technically a stablecoin, they're generally lumped in with them. I like that they're backed by True Ventures and Pantera. Also, the team is stellar (all from Google and Uber)

I'm with this concept. and we have to manage our money/wealth independently. So, I think stablecoins are just a way to do it. But, IMOP, Stablecoins are not all created equal. I think, the best way to have less volatility and good ecosystem is by backing crypto-assets with precious metals, like Gold and Silver ..these have global stable prices. Gigzi is an ongoing project that uses this precious metals price backing concept and I think will help to make independent money/wealth management.

I think it's perfectly fine to differentiate between bitcoin and independent money. All of these can coexist and be meant for different functions.

ampleforth has a unique approach which solves both short and long term

I have to say that I do not have such knowledge as you have about who supports whom, because it seems to me that today this is a very intriguing situation that will seem very sad. In any case, today BTC is developing and will do it.

you should look into ampleforth. good stuff. wish there was a video out there about them

yup very stealth project with not a lot of info out there about them. Hopefully they push out some content soon

the future will be independent money, whether that's a stablecoin or not. I do have my sights set on ampleforth though

I think what needs to happen is that we need to start reclassifying our currencies. For ex. fiat coins vs other stablecoins.

Looks like ampleforth is a exactly what you think it is: independent money

It is until you lunch your coin o exchange before you can conclude I'd it is truly stable on not. Until a coin is exposed to trading, the act of buying and selling, which also translates to demand and supply, before you can make your conclusion.

did you guys see this? https://www.coindesk.com/the-true-crypto-alternative-to-government-money

The word Ampleforth is kind of new to me. But for Fragment, I have come across it before. From your analysis here, it seems to me that it is an altcoin which is based on Bitcoin model but instead of increasing in face value it increases in quantity as demand increases. It is a welcome idea. Let's see how far it will go.

yup. I like their concept too. it's based off of the character in george orwell's 1984. this is about the rename - https://www.cryptoninjas.net/2018/12/06/fragments-rebrands-to-ampleforth-and-introduces-non-collateralized-stablecoin/

I do not think that there will be a coin that can compete with Bitcoin, even if it happens, it will not be very soon!

I don't think the future will be our society using just one coin. I think bitcoin is here to stay but more as a store of value. What we need for mass adoption is a coin that can be used everyday and fights volatility

at least, the future of Bitcoin can only be spoken if the cryptocurrency society starts using Bitcoin for a full-fledged means of payment. This is the way to save the situation, otherwise bitcoins can leave the market.

crypto has a lot of contradictions and this makes me even more brave enough to understand that crypto has the potential to develop and have a good existence but because its existence threatens fiat or other systems, statements and strategies are made to cripple crypto. I remain optimistic that crypto will continue to grow and provide many benefits

People won't particularly be seeing bitcoin as a form of payment but as a stored of value.  Still bitcoin is on continuing development and might people will realize it and it's full adoption to this.  We cant push them either to use bitcoin as not mandated by the government, but wait the people will do so.

That's right, if bitcoin continues to grow and can do that, it could become a money-maker, but that path is far away. I find it doesn't matter who holds Bitcoin, which direction is important in the future, I have not seen any signs of it  :o

Most of a good platform is never get a lot of advertisement because they have a big coorelation with the big investors. Im interesting with the idea that will be used by ample forth but just curious about will the idea run as expected by the developer?

they are still interrelated as of now.. nothing much can be done unless all countries acknowledge bitcoin as a legal tender.

the love story will continue... fiat still backs-up crypto in some ways

Those that will like to use the service of suggested coin are probably not in the market.  Bitcoin is use more beyond store of value,  the future prospect and value of bitcoin is essentially the motivation for large percentage of those that invest in bitcoin!

Nowadays, there are too many altcoins that can be stabilized for a long time, and they can become stable coins. There must be a strong team behind it to maintain its price balance.

did you guys see that ampleforth published their security audit? https://www.ccn.com/ampleforth-stablecoin-improves-security-after-audit/

At the same time, others might compare cryptocurrency to stock market, though they both are considered as electronic herd, still, cryptocurrency is mostly comparable to fiat in terms of electronic.

I am sure that bitcoin for the future has a good future and is able to last a long time, and for the future there will be more people to invest in Bitcoin because with investment in Bitcoin this will give you profits according to what you expect

Bitcoin is limited but there is no minimum amount of bitcoin while making transactions so you can send someone with the bitcoin of one in million parts even when you are ready to pay the transaction fee,so it is a wrong understanding that bitcoin can't be used in daily life.

Banking sectors mostly invested into single coin and that is Ripple(xrp)in which known for being centralized so i guess its not considered as added in capitalization since they have own views in making profit,but i wanna look unto this later when i got home maybe theres some good things to check on this area

What are everyone's thoughts on ampleforth and how they stack up against bitcoin? https://www.ampleforth.org/

Basically, I think stable coins are also as well as fiat money, they are guaranteed by fiat money and be controled by a certain financial institutions or group. They are centralize

Investing in Bitcoin is the best thing today to make money in a short period of time, although their price is very high compared to other altcoin, but it is necessary for us to become tomorrow  ;D :o

If I can think about the future, I also think that it is very likely that Bitcoin will be independent money in the very far future, but it also needs us, investors and trading them to date a more developed  8)

the future of crypto currency cannot be predicted in the future because it has become the nature and risk of the currency, all possibilities can happen

I think bitcoin is independent in its own way and we cannot over emphasize its general acceptability as well as its importance to the future of store if money

The list of atms increases and so is the usability
We can only wait for few moments until it becomes stable to some extent

I think everyone's investment philosophy is different. I will use the altcoin in my hand to trade to earn more altcoin.

The future of bitcoin cannot be predicted, we can see developments through a moving market, so this depends on market capitalization.
Only hope that the future has good development and runs smoothly.

We will see the development of bitcoin that runs well and smoothly, independent money that survives and can always develop well with its community. Trading with altcoin will provide benefits and good opportunities always come and be used wisely.

The future of bitcoin looks promising so it is quite possible that it will be able to replace fiat money!

I think different from you, did you notice the dump yesterday. I see in the current market situation, hold or trade Bitcoin is much safer than altcoin, agreeing that altcoin will bring a lot of profit, but it is too dangerous for investors.

These two although are used almost together, but they are totally different and serve different purposes.
You can see someone say he want to invest in fiat, but can keep money in fiat and can use it to purchase bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.
We truly need fiat, because if you want a resting stage for your fund, without subjecting it to the volatility factor, it is better to keep it in fiat.

Those people who today already have a correct opinion, which I support, namely, that BTC has a very bright and good future, like a currency that will be accepted around the world, I think that this is exactly what should bring wealth to people.