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Hi everyone.

Tons of people, most of them not from France, are currently pointing out the protests as being horribly too violent and saying the protestors are savages that should be get killed or at least jailed.

This is an understandable point of view from anyone not knowing the country recent history. After all, France has still a quite strong economy and is a free democracy, so violence can seem as people unsatisfied with election results getting violent just because they lost.


So here is the point of view of one of the French violent protestors so you can see why a huge number of people are getting more and more violent.

France is free

This has become completely false. Though it would be crazy to compare France to North Korea, we have seen our rights reduced in a number of ways with the terrorism threat excuses:

-Demonstrations are forbiden unless previously approved by government

-Public gathering are theorically forbidenn unless previously aproved by local authorities (though in practice 90% of local authorities don't apply this rule)

-Free speach has been completely anihilated. We were never the USA in terms of free speach but now anything said directly against government can be punished as "incitation of violence in a crisis context". Not to mention the prosecution of anything seemingly said against any minorities.

-National emergency has been active for... I don't know? 2 or 3 years I think? This means military in the streets, regular check of identity and belongings on a daily basis, and numerous public places forbidden to the public.

-French government has been caught having a shadow militia. People bearing weapons and police uniforms, without being registered anywhere, directly under French president authority and used as political police or to put pressure on elected representants. This is not a joke or an exageration, look for "Benala case" if you want to know more.

France is a democracy

Best lie you can get. Of course France isn't a democracy but a representative democracy, meaning people elect representants and those people have the power. But it got MUCH WORSE in last years:

-There is since 2016 a direct control of justice from French government. President appoints ministry of justice, who appoints the biggest judge in the country. Means that anything that is trouble for French government goes directly in front of this judge who has no choice but to obey the president. That's not an exageration as there is currently a heated trial case that has been transformed in a mocked trial due to presidential influence (just look for "Benala" for more)

-Since 2012, French government has used a dictatorial tool known as "atricle 13" more than 10 times. It means the French government can put any law in action without having to go in front of the chamber first. It's litteraly: the president does this and you can't say anything.

-Numerous of times government has taken decision officialy refused by the people. Referendum on the EU has been simply ignored, laws on economy deregulation refused at 85% by the population has been put through with article 13...


There would be much more to say of course. But I hope you get the general idea that the country has changed a LOT in a short time and NOT in a good way. Every year France is closer to an elective dictatorship and this is really frightening. That's why the protest is mainly about the possibility for the people to directly open a referendum, in order to be able to stop this crazy dictatorial path taken by the various governments.

And there is no way to do it peacefully. How would you force your government to take the people into account if not by force? By election? Impossible as they already rigged the election system after last ones were too close for them... Now we're nearly at a bi party system.

I hope you understand better what the population has gone through and why the hate and wrath are transforming into such a violent protest. This is the only way we have. Unless we bend the knee there is no way they'll stop.

Yep, France does not seem to be scoring highly in the democracy ratings.

The "Flaws" of French Democracy (https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27310566)

This article is four years old but still relevant today.

Democracy is a unicorn.

I more-or-less agree with your grievances, but where's the strategy? I echo The Pharmacist's comments in the other thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095067.msg49140505#msg49140505) in saying that this movement is looking mainly like a group of undirected terrorists, which is probably turning off a huge segment of the population who would otherwise agree with you. If people are more worried about having their homes firebombed by an anarchic mob than about abstract concepts like freedom of speech, then your movement is dead.

I suspect that the movement will lose size and popularity over time as Macron both cracks down and gives some concessions, until the remnants can be safely wiped out. To avoid this I think you'd need to create a sort of parallel government which can claim widespread support from the movement as a whole, and then compete with Macron's regime either within the current framework, or compete with the entire old government for legitimacy. Extremely difficult.

(Admittedly, I'm nowhere near France or even Europe, so my ability to accurately perceive the situation is limited.)

You might be not in France but you're fucking right on the spot.

Movement is losing support actively because people can't relate...
There is no strategy because strategy needs leadership, and the main idea of YW is that there is no leader. You have extreme right and extreme left going on the street at the same time, who could be a leader? No one can gather equally communists, anarchists, monarchists, nationalists, fascists...

So the group is large, dangerous, violent, and all asking for one thing: Direct referendum. That's the only thing all those groups have in common, the will to take back the power from the government.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-14/french-riot-police-deploy-semi-automatic-weapons-against-yellow-vests-macron-loses

Just wow. The US police hardly ever brandish rifles against protests/riots, but perhaps this is just because they know we can shoot back ;)

This just goes to show you what results when you let the government hold a monopoly on violence. IMO this was a retarded choice to arm them for 1000 reasons. Whoever decided to do this WANTS France in a civil war. All it is going to take is a few protestors shot by the police before the whole country loses its fucking mind, then those police won't be safe anywhere even if they are carrying RPGs.

As a person who doesn't live in France or ever lived there, I FULLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING SAID

I know many people living there. Some WERE successful entrepreneurs, owning small restaurants in different
areas of France. I can tell you that since 2016 everything went bad for some reasons and all of my friend's restaurants closed. He told me that people in France
seem to have lost the sense of enjoying their life. People are more likely to save money rather than go with their family to a restaurant or enjoy their time.

Either French people have changed their culture and values overnight or something is going on. Do you believe that the economic state of France which
GDP in 2014 decreased by 0.4 TRILLION and hasn't recovered yet is affecting the overall situation? Also why does it look that in all countries, USA, UK, France, etc.
we are going 'backwards' / negatively progressing?
UK going out of the UE, making a situation similar prior to World War II,
France being what you stated in the post,
USA on the edge of leaving NATO  (https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/15/politics/trump-nato-us-withdraw/index.html) like in World War II

If the situation is as bad as you're describing it doesn't sound as though working from the inside is going to accomplish much.  Also it does not surprise me whatsoever that protesters would be described as 'savage' by the media, because if France is anything like the U.S., media outlets are basically controlled by the government and large corporations and will make real justice look like the work of criminals.

I'd no idea things were this bad over there, and you have my sympathy and support.  Fight the bastards until their legs give out.  The world is in such a chaotic state right now that it's no wonder subterranean concrete bunkers are becoming all the rage.

Here is a good graphic showing how right you are:

https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/cartes/ppa-archive

The entire French media is controlled by a bunch of rich dudes.

No way the TV could be bias of course...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka8XJPr8gec

How much longer do you think people will tolerate this before a full fledged civil war breaks out? FYI, they say he was shot with a "less lethal" munition, which is technically accurate, but from what I understand it was actually a flash bang grenade of some type he was shot directly in the head with. OFC those are not designed to be less lethal with direct impact to the head...

A unicorn is a mythical creature... Though I don't agree. Pure Democracy is real, it is called mob rule.

Excepting for the fact that there ARE UNICORNS!!!!

https://mentalfloss.com/article/79557/curious-case-ringlings-living-unicorn

Hey mOgliE,
I agree with all your statements.
France has this glamorous image for tourists, but it is far from being a paradise for French people.
And the taxes, the layers of paperwork / administration / restriction make it hard to conceive a future.
But no place on earth is perfect either, i was born in France, i lived there 28 years and moved overseas 4 years ago.
I don't regret it, but when i look at the situation in Spain, Greece, Poland, Russia.... I realise that France, while not perfect isn't too bad.

Are you french ?  i haven't seen you posting in the French board ?

Also your quote infers that you are one of the violent protesters
May i suggest that you  do actions and / or destroy infrastructure and goods that pisses off the government and not the public.

Some ideas for you and your friends :
Buy a cheap car on leboncoin, abandon it in from the Elyzee (don't forget to puncture the tyres), burn it if you want (it is yours). Then declare it stolen (it will use police ressources).
Ask a farmer to deliver some cow's poo in front of the city hall.
Go at night and put a lock on the door of the courthouse, the city hall, the tax building, the prefecture, banks ...
Collect dog poo and throw it at the cops.
Collect dog poo and ship / post  it  to the ministers / deputy / senators .
collect dog poo and spread it on the walls of government buildings
Get people to chain themselves to doors.
Make the tolls free at the highway
.....
be imaginative !

Don't loot an Apple store or break a velib  ;)



I will quote the pharmacist as his statement is very good :

That's not the case right now. People have been in the streets during Christmas time, with low temperatures, they're not gonna stop now especially since every action taken by Macron is another insult to them.
Right now, his great new idea is supposed to be a national debate... well it's a joke. There is no debate, only him imposing his ideas (he "talks" with French mayors... they listen).
European elections are coming and he's trying to buy some time. At the end of this debate, he will make a few proposals (he already knows which ones lol)... it will take a few days for people (and the media) to realize they're useless... nothing will have changed.


Seems to be the only way out, some kind of apolitical movement who would interfere with the current government decisions.

The Gilets Jaunes agree on the most important proposals :
-a fairer tax system
-a better control on state expenses
-the RIC (the referendum you probably heard about)
-a higher minimum wage

And probably a few other things but these don't seem undoable right ?

P.S : what's more violent ?
Physical violence ? Like punching someone in the face ?
Psychological violence ? Like making someone unable to provide for his family ?

Hey. Yes I am but I never post on French board. Honnêtement on est vraiment pas nombreux et la pluspart de FR à mon époque étaient des trous du culs de l'accabit de TECSHARE.
You clearly haven't participated in one of those protests at the moment it gets violent.

You're not really in the situation of thinking.
The goal is simply to defend yourself from the police. Destroying the shops is here as a mean to do damage to "the other side".

Protests are put in the broad middle of Paris. There is no poor shopowner there, don't believe the TV. You think a baking shop in the Champs-Elysées is a small business led by a poor guy with a loan? Think again. Shops destroyed belong to heavy corporation, even restaurants are all parts of a network.

And anyways, banks are the first target.
Again you clearly don't see how things happen. And you never faced the police or the danger behind. You think doing something legal protects you? Police pins you down and beat the shit out of you without any reason. They don't need a reason.
I've seen students get beaten so hard the lost a few tooth while they were surrendering.

Police are nazis in France simply because they answer to no one. No one can charge them in a trial, no one can do anything. They're all "assermentés" which means that, by law, whatever they say under oath is the truth and the only truth.

I also agree with everything you said.

Except maybe one point, we talk about it every days on the french local board, so you're really welcome to talk with us : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5086499.0

Edit : I see you already post in this thread, so I don't get why you say we are all against it... (but I get why you say most frenchs are assholes on bitcointalk, here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5085936.0) we can see it again, they don't want anything to change and they claim days after days that everything is alright)

French Revolution II?

Try global revolution.

The Gilets Jaunes have decided to make a list for the next European elections.
For now, there are 10 names on that list but many more are yet to be added, the total should be 79.
First surveys have them at 13%, which would place them as the 3rd party in the country.

The yellow vests are totally against this list!
The movement is apolitical, so creating a political movement is playing the macron game (and that's what he want).

The only word of order remains: RIC then resignation of macron.

They don't have to vote for a Gilets Jaunes party. They need to vote Macron and a One-Size-Fits-All EU out.  At stake in 2019 is simply getting reducing, if not eliminating, the Merkel/Macron wing of the EU.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/world/europe/france-yellow-vests-police.html

“Through the Yellow Vests protests, many working or middle-class French, usually calm and mostly white, have discovered that in France, police violence can also target them,” he said. “The police have become the symbol of the government’s refusal to negotiate.”

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-09/graphic-photographers-hand-blown-police-grenade-during-yellow-vest-mayhem

No - a unicorn is a creation by man. It was a domesticated horse born into slavery, and fitted with an artificial horn. It was then released into the wild, and joined a herd of wild horses. It rapidly became the alpha stallion, and when summoned by its masters, it led the whole herd of free spirited animals into captivity. Politicians like Macron, Obama, Clinton and Theresa May are unicorns. Democracy is the means for people to band together, and free themselves from the slavery that restricts their lives.

When I read the topic line I thought that meant "violence by the state".
And my answer immediately was "because it doesn't produce and sell a shitload of oil?"

If you look at the history of France, you will see that the government is leading the nation towards Communism. That's enough right there for the people to rebel, so that they don't become like what the USSR used to be.

8)

That's because Macron is a socialist, which is very similar to being a communist. His views are applauded by Merkel, another socialist, who is doing everything to destroy the lives of people in Germany and the rest of the EU. How stubborn do you have to be to see that your politics is failing and your support is diminishing, but still continue the same route?
Not to mention that macron's wife is a pedophile who molested him since he was 15. If you ever fuck a 15 year old in France and get charged, don't forget to ask for a presidential pardon.

That's the biggest shit that I've read since... I don't know.

Macron is not a socialist (give me just one single "socialist" law or change he has made)
Socialism is NOT AT ALL similar to communism

It's funny.
Maybe coolccoinz said that because Macron is killing his own people, like Stalin did ?

The French government has declared war on us, mutilate us, the media is silent and lying every week... welcome to France
Thank you also to all your countries that are also not telling the truth.

So those years he spent as a member of the socialist party was him playing double agent, learning the ways of his enemies?

I will give you more than 1 law. For instance, he not only is paying support to economic migrants, but also offered them money to leave the country. He increased social spending for education and support for people with disabilities.


Communism is a branch of socialism and even in their definitions it is clearly stated that many of the ideas are similar and interchangeable. One of the most striking similarities is the idea of collectivism. Fighting protesters with tear gas is very characteristic for a communist authoritarian government. Next they'll start shooting at them with rubber bullets and then there will be live ammo.

This is what they use against us, every week : https://www.bt-ag.ch/shop/eng/bt-launcher-gl06-cal-40mm

Here is what the Swiss merchant says to defend himself:

This is what they are doing us every week :

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwSpTm5VYAALVoO.jpg

You clearly have no idea of what's happening in France and what are the laws current government has passed.

Otherwise you wouldn't claim Macron has raised social spendings...

"The budget includes a €6bn cut in household tax bills while business taxes will fall by close to €20bn"

How is that not capitalism and free market driven? Reduced taxes and reduced wealthare...

https://www.presstv.com/DetailFr/2018/08/26/572330/France-Macron-Reforms

The only thing he understood is that our government is authoritarian.

For him authoritarian = communism

And he is not wrong in this comparison because:
Tribalism, Despotism, Feudalism, Colonialism, Distributism, Anarchism, Socialism, Communism and Totalitarianism are a form of authoritarian power ideology structure. (Basic forms of government (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Basic_forms_of_government)). Modern examples (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism#Examples) only proves the point, we rarely encounter authoritarian government, that is not socialistic or communistic in nature, exception: religion based power structure.
Summing up, strong government, lack of political freedom and subordinance to the state, characterizes authoritarianism. Philosophical, social, and economic ideology determines what kind of "ism" authoritarianism is. In 9 out of 10 cases it is socialism or full commie (4me no difference).

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against green V revolution. The sooner people of EU realise that all this union is just a preludium to totalitarian world government, the better. However such revolution should be done with votes not force.

What the fuck do you know about your own nation mOgliE? You were just saying this protest was dying down weeks ago. You have to pull your head out of your ass first to see what is going on around you in your own country.

He doesn't live in France.

What is he from Quebec? Even worse... he had no issues pretending he was.

Maybe he comes here a lot, I don't know.

All I can tell you is that here in France, no one thought it would last.
It's a spontaneous movement.

Now we are starting to be a little organized but we don't have a leader, even if some try.

However, after 13 weeks (14 next Saturday) I can tell you that the protest movement is not about to stop.

Just to take an example: We were asking for price reductions: Our president is increasing them. He mocks us, mutilates us with his police (80k cops every saturday). The whole press is against us (it belongs to the government and his friends), lies every day, there are scandals about the president.... There are so many things to say that it becomes hard to summarize. In any case, France is no longer a democracy, they are even passing a law prohibiting the demonstrations and registration of the political opponents.

In May we will still be there.

I personally support what you are trying to do there. You have supporters all over the world. We see your government trying to use violence to suppress you. Just don't let the Socialists and Communists infiltrate or the movement is over. I saw it happen with my own eyes during Occupy Wallstreet.

Pretty much all of the massive media network in Europe has been (at least temporarily) banned from reporting on this anymore.

I watched a livestream from an independent source the other day; it doesn't seem to be going in the direction of stopping, it seems to be growing. You shouldn't stop, so don't let it stop. The French people (among the people of many more countries) have been abused long enough.

Thank you for saying that because we have many opponents here in France. On bitcointalk, in the French local board, I can see that the French (the French of bitcointalk) are against this movement, maybe they no longer live in France, maybe they watch TV, I don't know, some even say that we are too stupid...

On the internet and in the press everyone seems to be against us.

On the other hand, on the street, everyone I meet supports us.


I don't know why you're talking about socialists, we don't have the same definition that you I think.... Anyway, no one wants a political movement... except the government, it would allow it to stop everything by putting a puppet in power.

Ignore them, they are just kool-aid drinking sheep. Independent thinking does not exist for them.

What can I say TECSHARE? You don't care about facts... Protests is becoming tougher every week but it IS dying... Number of participants only decrease, support for the protest only decrease... I can't say it very differently:
I consider a movement is dying when the number of participant of this movement only decreases in time.

If you have a different definition of what is a "dying movement" then let me know...


Well tons of people hope it won't die. I go to the protests when I'm in France and people in the movement are so desperate I think the only way to stop them completely will be to arrest or kill them.

Sadly considering the number of dictatorial laws passed I think that's exactly what they intend to.

French government just passed a law to allow protest ban of selected people. It will allow them to ban the leaders of the movement one by one until there is really no one left :/

I've heard about that, yes. Well, maybe it is time for the French revolution to really repeat itself. What a lovely manifestation of democracy; but at least we can scream and shout that socialism and communism are bad, right? ::)

Not sure I understood that bolded part.

Indeed a lovely democracy. France has been pointed at by multiples association including Amnisty International and Freedom of Press association as leaning towards dictatorial habits. Abuse of power threatening freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom to protest.
It's clearly a flawed democracy to the least...

300,000 every week, x13 weeks, why do you say it decreases ? In some city it grow up, in others it decrease but but the average remains about the same. https://france-police.org/

Marseilles should wake up... It's the only city where they are not afraid against cops (with Toulouse maybe). This one show they don't care with macron : https://twitter.com/hypermestres/status/1094924872021626886 (you can find many others).

Acte 13: 240k
Acte 12: 290k
Acte 11: 330k
Acte 10: 350k
Acte 9:   360k

I haven't the numbers for before with this source (and comparing 2 different sources makes no sense)

I'm not ok with the movement dying, I'd rather have the police join forces with population and everything goes even stronger.

But that doesn't mean I'm blind at the fact that -33% in 5 weeks is a dying movement. A great, strong and incredible movement. But decreasing.

the coldest month of the year!!
fear to be mutilated for life
what the newspapers say, they only talk about "casseurs" - translate in english for me ;)

300,000 average anyway and it's going to go up. and government have really become crazy. it didn't happen since 40 years++

I never said there wasn't a very good reason for the movement to be on the decrease. Just that it was.
I wouldn't know. That's a French invention, typical novlangue. The word was created for politics to be able to divide the people with the will to protest between violent and peaceful ones and make them fight together.
Even though you need both peaceful and violent people for a protest to be successful.
Well I can only hope you're right.

To be honest with you, and honest with people that have send us encouragement : if it go to far away it's not good, I don't want civil war, imagine what would happen in Europe ?

Edit : sorry to say it but some area would be happy if Europe is destroy (Asia and so on...).

I have to make a new post for this :

Maastricht was OK, union of people in Europe, after that they fuck us with union of bank, not people.

One more thing : theymos said me if law from france ask my ip to his country he will give it.

So it's not a safe place to talk against about french crazy government.

No, I said if I get a subpoena from the US then I might have to turn over data, and that in any case you should not be trusting anyone with your IP if it matters to you.

I just say it's not safe, nothing more. That mean : there's better place to talk about what happen in France.

edit : Sorry to edit man but: every country know every peoples revolution come from France.

Its Laudas way of being too much of a pussy to address me directly because they know they can't win in a direct debate about... well pretty much anything.




Socialism has a specific definition. No one wants a political movement but this is inherently political, further more entrenched political movements have incentive to infiltrate and misdirect, which is what they will attempt to do.

....
Guys, you don't get what happen here..

You might want to quote or at least explain...

I would like yes.. but i'm not a leader.

The leader of your own thoughts and opinions? Also I should mention this mentality is kind of what caused this problem in the first place...

No, I listen what people against macron says. I'm not a leader neither admin anywhere.

We have established this, you are kind of repeating yourself. You are telling unnamed people they don't understand then refusing to explain or give any details. I didn't know you had to be leadership to have a personal opinion or views of your own...

Just do #giletsjaunes on twitter please. All the rest we don't want government listen to us. Also I'm lazy on the internet, too many people speaks at the same time... Real life is better.

Fair enough. Should have just said so. Sorry for pushing but your statements made no sense. Now they do.

Last, but not least, I was happy to talk about what happen in France, our opinion is ban right now, on the internet and newspaper. Only some alternative media give real information.

Financial times are not people voting democrat but they say macron is crazy.. The ONU said it also (that Macron is crazy) and amnesty international (and so on), he say they are complicit.. our president is crazy.

France. 13/03/19 - I'll be in jail soon.

But I'm in a block ! ;)

theymos don't know my ip. now it's good.. tshhh..

I guess the government would listen to the grievances when the guillotines are brought out and polished?

Franckly speaking with the current state of mind of the government I think they'll just order the army to shoot at people.

They'll listen only once we put the guillotines to good use.