Bitcoin Forum

So.

I've seen this in a thread:


And globally an increase of posts saying that it's the end. That the big scam is finished and that now it's just a deah fish. That it was all a global scam.

Now I don't care if some old traders are dumb enough to sell right now. This post is for all the newcommers that fear investing. When I first invested in 2015 I was worried and only bought up to 2 coins while I could have bought about a dozen rather easily. Now I'm still happy I've bought at this time but I would have loved if some old coiners managed to convince me to buy muuuuuuuuch more.

Here is why you should buy, and buy now:

-BTC is not dead. There is no reason for btc to die, the only way would be to stop all mining but that's simply not possible as anyone can mine, even you.

-Already 83% of BTC has been mined. That means a very small inflation. You need only a very small investment to keep the price of btc stable. That's not the case of dollars or euro you know... They get printed over and over...

-BTC has a real life purpose. Using WU to transfer money is hundreds of time more expensive than using BTC. BTC isn't made for daily purchases but it can handle large amount transfer like nothing else!

-Next halving is in less than two years: https://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/
If you don't know what halving is, just remember that halving means less BTC mined means price increase.

-Market value is already in the 63 billions. For the price to stay the same, you need only a few billions considering the small increase of coins.

-Tons of coins get lost. I'm not even sure the number of BTC is actually increasing if you consider the people losing their private keys, the people dying without handing their coins, the amount of dust btc lost in small wallets...

-Not a single solution has been provided to avoid another world financial crisis. Banks and government are still exactly doing the same thing. And at the next financial crisis, when governments will have to print billions and billions to bail out the banks, what currency will not get inflation in any way? Yeah you goddamn right.

-For anyone in countries not 100% safe (means anyone except USA, France UK and Germany). Remember governments and banks simply prevented any citizen to get their money from their bank account with the Greek crisis. They will never be able to freeze your coins.


So don't be afraid. It's better than any other investment you could make.

Chill out, buy, and buy now as the price can only go up for the next halving.

Cheers.

Seen that comment as well and I'm quite surprised that he somehow connected his hate towards Bitcoin to a topic created by a banned member for plagiarism.
In these kinds of comments I always ask why a "demerit" button does not exist. But then I always realize that the "Ignore" button which we have now is even a better way of avoiding this nocoiners in the forum. It's like your own permaban button so that you don't see the posts of nocoiners after that. This forum really has no place for non-believers out there as they really don't have an open mind for a discussion on what we believe in.

Newbies should never ware of both extremes associated with bitcoin investment.
The high negativity and FUD created to scare away new investors and holders to panic sales. And then there's the hype which suggests high rewards in a short time meant ti attract less experienced enthusiasts.
One with background knowledge would be little moved by speculations and negativity.

Anyone waiting will be disappointed for not buying while it is below 4000 dollars. Price movements are very fast and it can go either way now but smart money will invest before a pump, it can happen any time from now

Thanks for this enlightment and i wish i had seen this post earlier because i thought bitcoin was about crushing so i wanted to hit the stop loss button in order to decrease my loss. From this information that you have shared i am never going to allow any false messages that are spread about the death of bitcoin convince me to sell of my coins very cheap.

Okay, let me be your devil's advocate here


While technically true, it is not what most people are looking for in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies most of the time. Those who you appeal to in your post ("investors") are looking for profits, fiat gains and basically nothing else. So your assumption is kinda cold comfort to them even if it is true in and of itself. Bitcoin is a survivor but for most people it is its price not its tenacity which matters most


Scarcity doesn't mean utility and without the latter cannot be a guarantee of any kind in respect to future value. There were enough shitcoins which had a monetary inflation rate way lower than that of Bitcoin (42Coin being the most notorious example), and it didn't make them valuable. In other words, your comparison with fiat monies will only make sense if the utilities of Bitcoin and these monies are either the same or remain the same


This is likely the only worthy argument you have made so far. But then again, while it is true and without doubt important for the long-term success of Bitcoin as a means of payment, it may not actually mean higher prices, which seems to be your point. In fact, there are strong reasons to believe it is the lower prices that will actually lead to expansion in this field, not the other way around


The same point as the one about scarcity. Other than that, you already said yourself just a couple lines above that there is not much left to mine, so the effect of the reward halving shouldn't be great anyway, apart from the regular hype and noise. Though I don't expect this hype to be of great influence now either for the reasons stated (not much to mine). If anything, it is going to add to volatility initially and will take time to have a long-lasting effect


Market value or market capitalization is completely irrelevant here given that most bitcoins are already mined as you yourself state. Basically, you are just saying that it is easier for the price to stay the same just because it is small. I wouldn't call the current price small as we have been above or at it only for a little over a year in ten years of Bitcoin history. In short, there is enough "price" to crash lower


It can be said that with fees going lower and with good chances of continuing in that direction further on, the amount of untransferrable dust is set to decrease eventually. Besides, the coins lost are already priced in anyway, so there is not much you can actually rely on in this department. More will be lost in the future, but this is an obvious example of a poor man's argument


While there is little doubt that hard times are lying ahead of us, there is not a single reason to think that it is going to help Bitcoin somehow. It will most certainly be gold and not Bitcoin that wealthy people will be looking for to save their wealth in. If anything, I wouldn't rely on this either. In fact, the global economic crisis can easily crash Bitcoin into the ground instead of raising it to the sky


That makes some sense as we have already seen something to that tune in the past (or even see now with Venezuela). But back then Bitcoin was highly undervalued and on the rise anyway, so it looked like a good emergency-exit vehicle. That may or may not be the case now, provided we are actually going to see something similar to the Cypriot financial crisis again. Simply put, we are already using Bitcoin for these purposes

unfortunately the lengthier this price level becomes and the more the stability lasts, it will cause more short term traders to become desperate and do things like that and spread false information which we may not even call FUD in many cases because they are only fooling themselves and are showing the "fear" in their own actions.

topics like this are very good but sometimes some people have to gain the experience the hard way after they fall for a couple of these FUDs and lose money.

Its ok to cut loss, but be sure it is your target price to cut the loses. Normally people react easily to a FUD news without any basis, its bad to see action like that. This post should be taken seriously, I don’t even think bitcoin will die just because its dumping, we will go for more good prices in the future.

We are very near and 1 year and 4 months to be exact. This is what I'm waiting for. I'm already immune with these FUDs that are being spoken by hopeless people. They probably sold at the dip and lost a lot of money, I feel sorry for them or they were those people who made much during the last ATH and wanted to discourage others. Any of their current situation, they don't care with others feeling. And as for the remaining faithful holders and do has enough experience with such dips and correction, mostly are ignoring those fuds.

I'm really curious if you are not being sarcastic here (as it sounds exactly like that)

If not, and that's for real, then you are in for a big trouble. It doesn't matter whether OP is right or wrong, even though, personally, I hope that he is right, after all. What matters is you basing your investment decisions on the words of some random dude from the Internet without doing your own "due diligence". What if the price crashes further to 2000 dollars and below, whom are you going to be blaming for your actions then?

Bitcoin is not dead and the one who says it just came late to this market and lost a lot of money. Knowledgeable, wise, patient people now have more than one hundred bitcoins in your wallet, and those who came to this market in 2017 are crying in all social networks and say that bitcoin is a bubble.
You just have to be patient and the price will rise again, and now it's time to invest, because in 2020 the reward for production will be halved and the price will start to rise. I advise you to start investing today as the price is very tasty.

after every market manipulation you executed yourselves it's also important to

remember your main marketing propaganda slogans:

1. you are all shitcoiners!!!

2. you are all NoCoiners hahaha! get lost poor people, the Lambos are all ours

- I don't think that was a good reason, even if all of those bitcoins has been mined, but without demand, its all is just for nothing, the simple thing is as long as we have demand, bitcoin will be fine but how long it will keep going on ? People's money has its own limit

-  But why merchants still want to reject this one to be applied ?

smart observation

look at the western banks that cant lend money, because they can't do that the usd and euro's value is highly at risk.

Next halving it is, I really hope that the price of Bitcoin will soar high reasonably when that time comes but let's be realistic here people, for it to go up again it needs to be use by more people.

One can only fall for FUD if not properly informed. Sadly you can find a lot uninformed people in crypto who really should not invest when they know very little things about what a cryptocurrency is. That is how FUD convinces people that Bitcoin and other crypto have no value.

This is the biggest advantage of bitcoin, even if you send a small amount or billions of dollars the transaction price remains almost the same and that cannot be said about the conventional transactions where you have to give conversion fees as well as other fees and it is a huge hurdle if you are trading globally and if it is a huge amount.

This is what everyone is looking up to, what ever may be the situation the market will recover during this period, never expect a full on rally like we had in 2017 but we will have a recover and if the market flies with it, it is advantage for the investors.


There is no estimate as to how many coins are lost forever and it is a really big deal when you take the whole picture of the amount of total coins.

If there is a financial crises the common man will not be aware of the big meltdown until it happens and the burden comes under the casual investors and not the big shots as they will be well aware of the situation and will take precaution to avoid any major losses. The common investor gets in trouble for a well planned sabotage from the bankers, we have seen in the past and no one is put behind bars as far as i know, the common investor lost in those situation.

FUD are constantly being spread by mischievous individuals about bitcoin being dead, scam or not worthy.
All this are not true bitcoin is even just starting and there is still more achievement it can attain.
It would be at everyone detriment to listen to FUD

It's great that you invested and won, but some invested in the wrong time and lost quite a lot. Moreover, I really don't think that newbies should invest, because investment always involves risk and responsibility. If they invest and the price keeps going down, they'll probably blame you for giving bad advice, because as newbies they are not clear on the idea that each person takes full responsibility for managing one's own money. I also think that we don't need newbies as well. Why? Because we had them in Q4 2017, that's why! If people invest without caring and knowing the stuff, they'll sell everything just as fast when some FUD appears on news portals. This bearish market is in a bad enough situation, we don't need it to be repeated.

Have been around Cryptocurrency for a while now and I love the warning you are giving out to the newbies out there, FUD is really dangerous to Crypto it really drags the Market down and giving investors and bitcoiners bad mindset on the next steps to follow.

Bitcoin's use will play an important role, and the simple fact that it's digital Gold is another benefit. Gold's industrial use is negligible. If it was valued based on that, it would lose over 90% of its value in an instant. The rest of Gold's demand is entirely speculative. Bitcoin is better in almost every aspect. No reason to think that there won't be any demand at a later point.

With Lightning there is an actual currency aspect people can utilize on a daily basis. If that picks up, there is basically nothing stopping it from growing for decades.

Not exactly sure what you mean by that, but merchants will adopt Lightning, because it's instant, and cuts out the +3% fees that flows straight in the pockets of greedy financial services such as MasterCard and Visa. Giving people 3% discounts on their purchases through Lightning will definitely attract a whole bunch of new customers, and generate even more revenue.

I start using bitcointalk's ignore button to avoid Fudders. I think fudders never will change. Every time when bitcoin price starts to go down they start spreading negativity! Bitcoin dead, crypto dead and words like these they always use. Though the bear market helped to remove those fudders! And I stopped talking with fudders already.

it'll be interesting to see how the fee dynamics play out. like 20 years out, how much bitcoin will you need to own at once to able to transact reliably (accounting for onchain funding/settlement fees)? if one is priced out of transacting onchain entirely, LN can't really be a solution at all right?

(that at least leaves bearer instruments which are compatible with bitcoin and don't require onchain fees)

while i'm excited for LN and the prospects for micropayments and usage as a currency, i'm still not sure what to expect from the fee market in the coming years and that will have a major effect on LN's utility.

if transacting onchain becomes prohibitively expensive, i wonder if using bearer instruments as cash will catch on. no fees, no movement of money, just like passing bills back and forth.

Maybe i should use it too to be honest.

People who call Bitcoin scam is just clueless and it's amazing how they can be clueless still despite so many years. That is the kind of negative people who never build anything new.

People like that will exist for a long time sadly, let's hope that in the far future it improves a lot being a lot more innovators and a lot less negative people.

definitely, bitcoin price will bounce back as soon as possible when there is high in demand which i hope will happen when SEC approve ETF, during this period more people will regret while others will buy at higher rate but then it sill be too late for majority to have their share; like what happened in 2017.

That’s the best thing for me because you study the coin and you are confident on the decisiom you’ve made. FUD is always be there to distract our inner peace and trying to ruin our focus but don’t worry because if you have a target price, you will be guided. You don’t have also to spread the fud just to make the price move, better to spread knowledge about cryptocurrency and the price will slowly pump.

Fud news is only affected beginners with little knowledge, for the one that already got experienced,we know what is capability of Bitcoin, for now many countries still hesitate to adopt Bitcoin but most of us already can feel the usage of Bitcoin,once it is adopting by a lot of countries you will regret not to invest Bitcoin earlier, if we check the transactions volume we can see that a lot of people still like to invest in Bitcoin,so it's impossible for Bitcoin to suddenly dead

no mate . im not a beginner anymore but i notice that im still affected with fuds but i can somehow control my self  .  while newbies are the real target of these fuds , they easily believe and panic .


how can they spread fuds if they dont have a knowledge in bitcoin and on crypto ? most fudster are actually crypto users and they are doing fuds because they want people to panic so that they can take advantage of the situation  .

Hey I'll second that newbies are always falling for fud, as they have zero knowledge of how Bitcoins works. Also panic sellers have shown an tendency to believe fud, as they do not bother to do basic due diligence and their negligence effects bitcoin prices. It's pertinent to note that the adoption rate has increased this year, and I'm sure many countries will be adopting it by the year end.

It's really important that you have knowledge about things before you invest your money, fuds affects newbies and some of those who forget about reading and analyzing the real deal around the market, you have to be wise not to allow yourself beating by any news which will lead you to a possible losses.

Let them think whatever they like, stand your ground and keep your faith as future will dictate what will happen after.

it is a pretty common thing to call bitcoin dead whenever price has fallen down, and this trend increases the closer we get to the bottom. also whenever price is stable like nowadays the idiot traders who think profit is only in their day trading with 1% profit, start spreading FUD because they want the volatility to continue.

in the end bitcoin is still bitcoin. the same decentralized currency that has always been if not stronger  now compare to before.

i would also like to point out that newcomers shouldn't buy bitcoin to make profit, they should covert their centralized fiat to decentralized bitcoin if they want to benefit from this unique money that we have here.

One lesson i have learned from crypto is to always refrain from FUDs. It can lead to the making of careless decisions of selling off valuable coins at cheap price and later regret or buy back the same coins at high price. FUD has great influence on the market and if we wish to see another bull market any time sooner, we must refrain from all sort of FUD and create more awareness about the benefits and advantages of patronizing cryptocurrencies.

most of them are newbies themselves. otherwise they would have traded normally like the rest of us without feeling the need to spread nonsense. 90% of the things you read online specially on forums that are negative about bitcoin is written by someone who is new to trading, tried shorting and failed or sold in some dip and failed to buy back,... and now they want to solve that thinking if they fool others to go in their desired direction they can fill the orders they have placed.

I wish to ask the question here. What is more of a scam FIAT currency which is an IOU piece of paper that can be printed in unlimited amounts to generate inflation and even hyper inflation and is controlled by a single entity the Central Banks/ Or Bitcoin which is limited and finite in supply and can even be owned by various entities around the world and not governed by one single entity or body, thus it is decentralized. We need to assess what the alternatives are before we even start to believe or listen to those who are against Bitcoin and promote FUD everywhere. I think FUD is created primarily to reduce the price of Bitcoin, so that the big people that be try to own more and more of it to control the markets.

I agree with you, mate. I don't intend to sell one single satoshi from my btc holdings as the potential for btc to raise the next years is very high.

If you invest only what you can afford to risk then there is no reason for you to sell now when price is very low and a much better option is to keep your btc and monitor the market for the next years. Patience  is one of the keys in crypto.

I'm not sure that you are correct about gold

Well, technically, industrial use of gold may be small but it looks like by that you actually mean anything other than using gold as a store of value or a vehicle for speculation. And from this perspective, you are not correct as it is only the minor part of gold which is used as non-digital "digital gold" (if I may say so). The major part of total gold supply is used in jewelry (over 50%)

Indeed, you can say that this gold should be counted toward speculative demand on the basis that people can always sell their gold jewelries. But that would be too far-fetched as people can sell virtually anything for that matter, and I don't really expect many to think of their wedding rings as a speculative investment anyway


I wouldn't count on Lightning too much

Exactly when there is bitcoin price dump, I see a lot of articles here and in other bitcoin forums / Blog that bitcoin will end soon and it is something which is only for short term and lot of such stuff. I think its time that we do not believe on such news/views and stay focused on our believe that nothing can bring down the Bitcoin and it is the real future of money.
If we understand this properly, then no fud can affect us and we may never sell in panic because of these false news.

When I was new in crypto world I thought those users spreading FUD are right since they are experienced one who know more compared to me who is just starting. I tend to panic everytime I see posts saying things like that.

But now I used to it and realized that you should have your own way of thinking and understanding in cryptocurrencies, have your own research. In that way only you can dictate yourself on whats the right decision to do with your holdings.

If he is sick of all us cryptonians then whats the reason he was still staying in this community?So the answer is clear just to bring FUD and Misinformation right?Or maybe the other way around that this man is a crypto loser?Lets not just demerit him instead put on our ignore list.

For OP please continue bringing this kind of topic.bitcoiners need more of this than reading TA and speculative threads,lets make more realistic post

We also don't forget that when Halving 2016 then the price started to increase and I felt that in that year the price really rose dramatically until 2017, so I will wait for 2020 later, I always listen to what my financial advisor says

Whenever I hear FUD or someone talking trash about cryptos I look the other way and if they are my friends I don't even have to talk with them anymore as I don't like skeptical and envious people as they are always negative at your persona. Also you should never ever give investments advices to your friends.

Exactly. Copper and iron have more utilities than Gold yet gold has higher price and is more valuable.

Bitcoin could have a stable alternative as sidechain for payments of goods and services while the main Bitcoin can used as Store of Value and also for payments of goods and services.

It is more valuable because it is scarce

I mean it is more scarce (or scarcer if you please) than iron or copper, and its scarcity obviously overrides the wider utilities of the latter two metals. If gold was easily available, it would be cheap as dirt. Ironically, before 1886 when an industrial-scale process of aluminum electrolysis was developed, it was a precious metal (more expensive than silver). So if someone develops a similar technology to obtain gold from seawater (where simply insane amounts of gold are dissolved), gold may become cheaper than copper


We already have that "sidechain". It is called Litecoin, get used to it

Scarcity is not the only factor that gives value to metals. Cobalt is very scarce and widely used. It's estimated that there's not enough of it to satisfy the industry and it has almost no value if put against gold.

I don't care about Bitcoin FUD. There are many smart people who see the value in it and when I listen to the haters I don't see anything worth repeating in their rambling.
Bitcoin is working as a store of value for me and it's doing even more: gaining value. I wasn't expecting that when I bought my coins.

Scarcity and utility are two ultimate factors that determine the value (price) of anything

If you think that cobalt is more scarce than gold while its utility is greater than that of gold, then its price should necessarily be higher than the price of gold. If it is not, then you may be overestimating the utility of this metal (as scarcity can be easily quantified and compared). Most certainly you underestimate the utility of gold as a precious metal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precious_metal), i.e. its role and use in jewelry (and maybe as a store of value as well). Cobalt, as far as I know, is not a precious metal (even if it is a rare metal)

I agree. If they continue to doubt bitcoin, they are losing the opportunity to have it in lower price. FUD is just created to scare those who gonna scare but those who believe in the potential of the coin stay stronger and wait patiently. I am making sure that I have to invest in every down it has though with little amount. Bitcoin gonna rise up again and gain for it in time.

It's obvious that the halvings are a key part of the future possible stabilization on Bitcoin's price. As long as it keeps being mined at such a high rate of course it will be unstable.

It's the same economical law that applies to fiat currency bills. The more they print, they more inflation and if not carefully planned possible destabilization of the economy. Look at Venezuela.

We can stop those people who are easily affected with the FUD's, losing their opportunity in crypto is just their biggest regrets in life. We can't condemn their doings but to let them play their life away from here. We might think also that, this is not the right place for them.  And for us who are still in crypto space, better to extend our patient cause that's the only way to make it right and helping the market not to worsen.

People are panicking when they read articles in the internet about the end of the bitcoin and that's why they are making wrong decisions. We should not fell in FUD for us to not experience losses. If we have a lot of information, we can avoid fud and fake news all over the internet.

FUDs and other fake news will infecting new minds and that is usually happen to newly adopters. We can't actually escaped from that and its up to us to decide what could be the best to our future. Failures are coming from wrong decision and that's because we are affected to much by our surroundings. Maybe this is the right time to make it right and face the challenge.

that is not a "sidechain", it is an alternative chain which is stand alone and has nothing to do with bitcoin. a "sidechain" is another blockchain that is somehow linked to bitcoin's blockchain. the only link between bitcoin and litecoin is when they copy code from bitcoin.
not to mention that it is not used as much as you think. it has some use cases but they are negligible.

I had several time to used WU for transfer of money in different countries, and it feels very annoying.

I need three day to went to WU office for take my money and need some paper which has already been a requirement, I know a requirements that must be respected.

However, when I used bitcoin (because I have recommended to my friends to use bitcoin) just need 5 minutes to take my money.

This is one things that I use to believe for have investment in bitcoin, no matter other people talk about negatively about bitcoin and no matter how much other people said bitcoin dead, it doesn't bother me at all.
 

You may have to learn what double quotes are used for

Regarding Litecoin not used as much as Bitcoin, that in fact remains to be seen. I bet you are looking at Litecoin's market cap and thinking that it is far behind Bitcoin's. But that's a wrong approach for pretty obvious reasons. If anything, you should take the market cap and relate it to trading volume. So if you actually go and do that, you may start questioning if Litecoin is "not used as much as you think" and whether these uses are in fact negligible

My dad used to be an investment guide/consultant ...was discussing with him the other day and he told me something that has remained a shock to me till now.
He told me that Cryptocurrency investment is the better of the other investments.
Although people choose to be ignorant of this , saying it's risky and so many other reasons why it's not a feasible investment plan.
He went on to say that even big companies, individuals are investing heavily in Cryptocurrency.
He said something of bitcoin being the future of payment and so many other things.

So when I see people saying that bitcoin is scam ,I laugh at their ignorance.

Trading volumes are pure speculation. It's not indicative of actual use.

If you want to see the bigger picture, which does include speculation, but for sure also plenty of ecommerce and other sorts of value transfers, then you have to focus on the on-chain volume.

https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/ $5.4 billion on-chain 24H activity.
https://bitinfocharts.com/litecoin/ $335 million on-chain 24H activity.

Trading volume to market cap ratios aren't much of a good measuring stick, see this;

https://bitinfocharts.com/ethereum/ $211 million on-chain 24H activity.

And why are you surprised? Bitcoin is long enough on the scene to prove that is not the scam but there will be always people who will spread FUD and only negative stuff about Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general. Still I don't think that FUD has so big influence as before, maybe only on new users and those without enough experiences. It's in human nature to be afraid and reluctant when new and different things are involved and Bitcoin is not an exception. I think you should stick to your dad opinion.

Pure speculation is one of such uses

I agree that it may not be indicative of real-life use (as in e-commerce or whatever), though personally, I see it as a good hint at such use. And your links in fact confirm exactly that. Bitcoin is over 80 times more expensive than Litecoin at the moment, while its on-chain volume in dollars is only 16 times that of Litecoin's. Take that for what it's worth, but it tells us that Litecoin has more real use than Bitcoin, i.e. 1 litecoin has more real value than 1 bitcoin (well, we should also take into account the supply of coins but you get the point). Otherwise, on-chain volume is not indicative of real use either

There was a time when you can actually take advice from media but the time is long gone now that cryptocurrency is facing lots of FUD i hope investors can stand strong with absolute nothing shaking them ,I'm personally tired of eating the death of bitcoin over and over again and yet here it is ,bitcoin still lives ,don't listen to them just ignore and keep learning more about blockchain ,you might bring a big change to cryptocurrency space in the future

You know why the experts say that only invest the amount you are willing to loose in cryptocurrencies, it's because of these FUDs, FOMO and panic trades.
If a trader actually invests only the amount he/she is willing to loose then there is no need for him to fear. He/She can trade without any fear.
This means that even if the price has dumped real hard then we should not be selling it. Rather we should hold and wait for the price to recover and grow to gain more profits.
This is what I am doing right now and will probably keep doing for as long as I want.

Those not really that oh-so sophisticated approaches don't matter. The FUD attack vector from a more tenacious adversary like Craig Wright is unnerving.

Again he tried counterfighting the White Paper, stating him beeing the inventor instead. Seemingly got caught again copying a draft by Satoshi from 2008. Who funds this guy?!

https://i.imgur.com/uCskxTF.jpg

You're cherry picking here, and very much in the wrong way.

But let's say on-chain dollar volume is not indicative of real use either. We still have another very useful on-chain metric indicative of use (regardless of the purpose), which are the on-chain transactions of the last 24 hours;

Bitcoin 324,000
Litecoin 25,452

Even Dogecoin with 28,309 transactions has more on-chain transaction activity than Litecoin, and that consistently for months straight.

At least, Litecoin is doing way better than BCash with only 8600 transactions in the last 24 hours, and that with way less merchant adoption.

But it is not me

It is you who suggested to use on-chain dollar volume as an indicator to assess real use. You come up with a new metric each time (which seemingly better suits your "agenda") after I explain that it doesn't show what you think it does. So who is actually cherry picking here and what exactly (apart from cherries, obviously)?

Regardless, if you have been following my posts closely, you must know that I always speak of Dogecoin as one of few coins that have real world use (in this case it is gambling). Moreover, Dogecoin is likely the best coin in terms of real value versus speculative value (overall, it is not a good vehicle for speculation)

This is the one of the advantages of cryptocurrency most i like about. It doesn't care about how much you send the coin, the fee remain small.
You will find a big difference from fiat transaction if you send in large amount of your fiat money to other peoples, compare with sending large amount of bitcoin.

This is the issue, people will always create FUD and criticize what they know nothing about and the noobs will chicken out. During the first bitcoin network fork, I had opportunity of buying 1BTC or more, but some very very stupid analysts stated that holding bitcoin during the fork could just evaporate the bitcoin, I was just about a month old then, I bought into the foolish FUD, after then BTC went ATH and they all went into hiding. I have chosen to always take my destiny in my hands. Don't want crabs to dictate for me.

And thats the main purpose of how Bitcoin was created. To have financial freedom, less transaction fees, and assets can be accessed anytime you want. But, it turns out that Bitcoin nowadays was being used by some people not only because of its primary purpose, but to put their money and hope they getting rich overnight. Only those who embraces the technology remains standiny despite of the huge slump.

litecoin isn't a sidechain, but there's no reason it couldn't be. it just needs to be made interoperable with bitcoin. this could be done similarly to how lightning was implemented, with special multi-sig contracts that recognize and interact with both protocols. it just hasn't been done yet.

i actually think it's a good mental exercise to view altcoins (like litecoin) as potential sidechains. there is a misconception that sidechain tokens are always 1:1 with bitcoins. i also dislike this idea that sidechains are "layer 2". they are totally separate protocols and sidechains are probably much much much less secure. "sidechain" just implies interoperability between the two protocols.

in this way we can see: not all altcoins are sidechains, but all sidechains are altcoins. it took me years to realize what paul sztorc meant when he said "sidechains are altcoins". this is what it's all about.

Well, actually I didn't think of Litecoin as being a real sidechain

That's why I embraced it in double quotes (which I explained above), but it seems I should also start adding additional sidenotes (pardon the pun) whenever I write something which I don't expect to be taken literally. Regarding Litecoin as a potential sidechain (in a more literal sense of the word), this has already been done if I'm not mistaken. It is called atomic swaps and that thing allows interoperability between two protocols

bitcoin-litecoin atomic swaps have been done a few times, yeah. when there's a GUI for doing that and it's something regular people can actually engage in, maybe people will see it more like a sidechain. right now, i guess most people wouldn't think of a sidechain as "manually find a trading counterparty and engage in a 12-step command line process using locktime contracts and preimages to swap coins".

there needs to be some sort of smart contract capability where users can automatically find coin swapping liquidity.

well the truth is there has always been fud as people every now and then try to give unreasonable reasons why bitcoin will fall, why people will make loss, and all that but then everyone has his or her own opinion. these fuds has been on a long time but notwitstanding, we have seen bitcoin grow from strength to strength. bitcoin will be fine, fud or no fud

Technically, I agree with you

But I don't expect much from it. To give an analogy, it is well known that centralized exchanges are hacked now and then (and sometimes they deliberately scam), so it is basically a matter of time (i.e. not if but when). Everyone knows that. Moreover, many have already lost their money in the past. The solution is known too. It is decentralized exchanges

So theoretically you could expect a lot of interest in these exchanges. But somehow there's not much. And I think it will be the same with atomic swaps (either through smart contracts or in some other way), i.e. people won't be interested in these. And that's the reason we are not going to see a lot of development here either

the biggest problem in that front is that centralized exchanges are making money so they keep staying ahead of the game while decentralized exchanges won't make money. and everyone nowadays wants to make money that is why they develop in first place. the days of Satoshi are over where the developers created things to change the world not for financial gains.
and the worst part is that even if they are paid, they create some sort of shittoken in the name of decentralized exchange with ICO or something like that and don't deliver anything because they made the money they were looking for.

Yes, I agree. FUD mode will only lead us to disappointment on the day. don't be pessimistic about the bear market. because this won't be forever. someday a bull will come. and see now it looks like the market is starting to improve, even though this is still far from what we expected. but don't let our struggle stop here and end up in vain.

As of now I think the FUD has reduced having made some people dumb their coins without any second thought because they don't want their investment to vanish but they didn't think of who was buying when they were selling. FUD is a tool and it will keep existing but investors need to know why they are investment this is what will make difference between those that will be moved by any FUD or those that will hold their coins.

Merited your post as this is what I've been telling folks for years

I had even created a topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1575066.msg15813105#msg15813105) here after Bitfinex got hacked in August 2016 when over 120k bitcoins were stolen. People were nodding their heads in agreement and nothing has changed since then. A truly decentralized exchange is only possible on the blockchain level when your desktop wallet functions as that exchange. But no one is financially interested in this kind of thing since there is no way you could profit off it, apart from running an ICO fraudulent scheme as you correctly note

Long time back only I understood that whatever decisions need to be taken I have to do my own research so that it helps me in learning as well as in selection of the coins and do not be dependent on anybody else who can recommended the worthless coin and in the end we loose our money .

The transaction fee for bitcoin is almost Nil as compare to the fee which companies like paypal , skrill take to transfer money from one person to another.



Never fall for FUD as you will regret in future when you will see bitcoin price again rise. People might tell you that this is the end of bitcoin or bitcoin may fall to 1000$ and those who believe this will sell now. You need to understand that bitcoin will not fall much now and it is time that we stay calm and hold the bitcoins to see the next Bull market.

This is the main problem most of the time why majority of the community got trapped with the FUD news,
where it leads them into loss of their coins or bitcoin. In fact, at this point of time, it is a good chance for us to
take advantage to buy Bitcoin now, because we do not know what will happen in the next hours, days, weeks, or months
that Bitcoin will bounce at once, due to its volatility and we all knew that it is volatile, right?

Now users falling for FUD has decreased a lot compared to the past. Whenever their is a price fluctuations some form of negative news can be heard. This is commonly the work done by the whales to create a panic mind among the small volume holders. Have a time target and hold until that even when there is bearish trend prevailing for a longer time period.

That kind of FUD is spread every time after Bitcoin hits an all time high price. I just don't give much attention to those posts, but they can really fend off people from investing in Bitcoin. No one should pay attention to that, Bitcoin would die 10 times if those tales were true. It wouldbbe great if we could somehow filter those FUD spreaders, they are really annoying and toxic for our community.

in a way i still believe that this can change in the near future though.
the decentralized and open source community is much bigger and better than what we have been seeing so far which has been mostly greed. things like bitcoin which are created to change the world not the creators pocket size, happen rarely but they do happen. that is why i believe eventually this tide will turn and we start seeing some better developers enter the space with motivations to improve the system not just make money from it.
...and then we will see stronger decentralized exchanges, much better alternative cryptocurrencies and lots of innovation.

Lets not believe in any FUDS that spread by bicoin haters.Bitcoin had really proven us to for a long time and wealready know that theres always a votality happening anytime so lets just believe on our instinct inorder that we can't be carried away by those who spread negativity that might cause of panic selling.

You got a point here . strategy of others wont always work on some people . thats why it is much better to foccus on your own strategy , not only it is beneficial for you . it can also teach you a valueable lesson if ever you fall from your own mistake .

When it comes to fuds, we must not believe on them instantly because fuds are only the same as speculation and prediction . they are all unreal or no evidence to back thier statements .  fuds only causes users to panic  and fudsters only take the benefits at most .

The payment system will always change depending on the human mindset and on the technological developments. In the past when barter system developed then the human mindset also developed and looked for a payment system that could be said to be fair and easy to do. So as we were found a medium of exchange that directly replaces the barter system. And now with the development of technology, people are easier to make transactions even though they still use money fiat. They haven't felt the advantages when using a payment system that has a decentralized system, they still like and even still obey the government. However, when technology is growing, I'm sure that with digital currencies like bitcoin, it will be able to at least compete the use of fiat currencies.

Not just consider the transaction fee but also need to consider about converting back these bitcoins to fiat. In many countries, it is not so easy to send money from crypto exchanges to the bank accounts.

As of today in many countries, we can't use bitcoins directly for buying things. They need to find someone to buy bitcoins at a market price and it is not an easy thing.

I'm not against to bitcoin but just highlighting practical issues as of now people need to face if they deal with bitcoins and they can't exchange bitcoins to fiat easily when they need money.

I hope we can see good news this month in the market and I wish that most altcoin can jump to a higher price because I think the bull market is starting to come to us. Nah, I don't think about the FUD because they can do whatever they want because they want to make people become panic. Be patient for a while, and we will see the bull market come again and help us to make a bigger profit.

Newbies spreading FUD when they got bad news about crypto market. Even they share and tweet in the facebook and twitter social platform to increase FUD that is damage bitcoin investors and who guys plan to invest in btc. I think well known and actual crypto loving dude don't believe any rumors.

There are lot of FUD regarding the downfall of cryptocurrency prices but the very normal trend in the crypto market is when there is a greater dip the bull run definitely follow after that because once the altcoin prices decrease the demand fro investors eventually increases due to low prices so many potential investors are getting attracted in these days even from the share market to invest in cryptocurrencies which can be a reason for crypto prices to sky rocket in not time so the best move would be avoid any FUD news and be patience with the investment  

Newbies spread FUD regarding crypto than any because due to there lack of experience they become victims easily from temporary dips in the crypto market so without understanding the reality and due to lack of patience they blame cryptocurrencies a FUD by using twitter, Face-book and other major social media platforms but if they have necessary patience what they have to do is HODL more until the bull run comes

Those that like to spread FUD most of the time appear when the market is not doing well, after all if the market is skyrocketing you have no reason to beleive anyone that is warning that the market cannot sustain such growth, but when they spread their FUD when the market is like this many people will believe them because deep down they are thinking something similar even if they do not want to admit it.

260/5000
Bitcoin will never die or disappear because Bitcoin is a powerful cryptocurrency. so if you hear the news about bitcoin will die or disappear then don't believe in the news. just keep your bitcoin until it rises to the sky.

it has nothing to do with the market and whether or not it is doing well.
it is all about the market going in the opposite direction of what these people hoped for. so they want to pull it back to their own desired direction. for example someone who has been shorting bitcoin or had the wish to buy bitcoin below $3400 is now desperately spreading FUD about bitcoin because he thinks he can get back the opportunities he missed so that he can right his  wrongs!

This community is a community of bitcoin believers in at no time should we allowed non coiner to come in here and start spreading fake news about bitcoin, how can someone in his/her right senses say such a thing as bitcoin is dead when they have no evidence to proof they point its quite disheartening. I guest I will just use the ignore function to lock such posters forever.

The scenario has changed with more and more people keeping themselves updated to the real value of bitcoin and its growth. Earlier FUD is quite a simple thing and people begin to react. Now this has changed, being speculative surely the market will react for some reason. People get into panic waves and the sole responsibility is from the whales who intend to make money out of the common people's portfolio.

Dont fell on FUD, dont stand on what ever FUD!
Make sure that you have a knowledge and you are doing you own research! why>
that is the only thing you can do to survive on the low season! and that is true!

FUD is often spread by people who are afraid to invest themselves while looking for people to drag down with them. It also turns out that FUD is usually fake news more often than not and this is one thing that forces novices in the cryptocurrency sphere into panic selling. I totally agree with you that every individual needs to make an unwavering stand on what he believes as the cryptocurrency space is unforgiving to the faint at heart. We should really learn to close our ears to what is being said around us, as I believe it is time to rise to the challenge that Fudders pose.

Yes, and there will be a massive buy order that will happen, and it will also trigger the price to moves to a higher price. I think people who trade in the stock will come to the crypto trading too because of they think that in crypto trading, they have another source income to help them to make more profit than the stock trading. That will be great for crypto because, at that time, the adoption will happen.

Bitcoin will traded in nasdaq and ETF trading and this makes bitcoin growing. Bitcoin price could reach peak price again if traded in wall street and market cap value growing bigger. More market recognize bitcoin is good for bitcoin and people will have knowledge about cryptocurrency

we should indeed stand our ground and give a deaf ear to all the FUD which pops up on a daily basis on different sites and social media platforms about bitcoin. Bitcoin is an extra ordinary technology which has so much to give to the world. we will get to witness its growth as time goes on no matter what form og FUD arises.

For some time I believed in that too

Especially, when Bitfinex got hacked. I thought like wow so many bitcoins had been stolen, so why not spend a couple bitcoins to build a truly decentralized exchange? But now I basically lost that hope. Bitcoin has been around for over 10 years already and most of that time exchanges had been hacked (or had been scamming)

Personally, I'm trying to avoid these risks by limiting my exposure via shorts, i.e. by keeping only part of my stash in an exchange's account as a collateral (that exchange is Bitfinex) and trading with shorts mostly. But in the case of a major hack like the one described above, I will still be hit severely


To make things easier, you may try your luck with Bitcoin payment cards (I didn't try them myself, so you are on your own here)

They are just trollers trying to shit on this newbies. I'm sure many are going to have doubts because of misinformation and false accusation about Bitcoin. Well, thanks to this thread, it helped someone removing their doubts. But to be honest, Bitcoin is like a double-edge blade, it could be the worst and the best investment that a person could have.

FUD is always there with bitcoin, we need to be prepared to overcome this. Whenever some form of negative news is getting rolled out of the community it needs to be analyzed. Because most of the time these negative things were put into circulation by the whales who intend to manipulate the market for their benefit.

Exactly, whales always produce negative news around bitcoin, they always want to use this tool to control the price of bitcoin according to their wishes, I have been in their trap for some time, I believe in news and news based action, I finally realized I was wrong. News in this field of crypto is always hard to distinguish from real and fake, we cannot trust because investors always want others to be losers and they are successful people, so, instead of looking at too much news, we should trust our choices and thoughts, believe in bitcoin

never believe in FUD or anything else if you believe that the future of Bitcoin is bright, just don't give up to the early cause bitcoin will always be there and become a cryptocurrency number one. so hold your bitcoin and invest more

I agree with you OP, perfect explanation. Now some people call dumb to those who think price will reach 20K and higher, in past those people were called dumbs who thought the same but in reality these "dumb" people were right, bitcoin reached 20K and I highly believe it will surpass it. Halving plays a huge role in it too, less mined coins means rise in price in order to keep mining profitable. Also there is no reason to think bitcoin is dead because everytime it's integrated in a lot of services.
On another hand you can't rely on banks because you have zero control on money. Imagine bank froze your account, what can you do? Nothing. But who can freeze your bitcoin wallet? No one ever. You can save houndreads of money in very small tiny usb stick and save it saffely which is pretty comfortable compared to saving paper money in real life. Of course this doesn't mean we have to give up paper money, keep both because both of them are neccesary.

It seems that people slowly come to understand this

And it is not just about banks freezing your account (though it is about that too, of course). Governments are notoriously famous for constantly stealing the purchasing power from common people. So even if your bank may not necessarily freeze your account, your government will do their job without fail. Bitcoin may go up or it may go down, but fiat money knows only one direction. You guess which

This is true, and we need to be careful as well too. Because most of the time if you heard the news anything that are good to your hearing, it was most often in return its not true. So the basic things were you need to know always is that you supposed to to have a full knowledge in Bitcoin or blockchain, so in the end you can earn good in the future.

Having knowledge about bitcoin doesn't let us to earn more,only if we are skilled trader it will will happen but when someone hope that bitcoin will be future of payment they can start holding the coins as much as they can while the prices are cheaper.

My choice is in crypto, so I will stay in any condition, and stay calm because crypto will grow again. I believe that crypto will be a beautiful day for me in the future.

Falling for FUD is falling out of Bitcoin goodwill and such individual will not be rich in the world of cryptocurrency to presume. I have been holding my fraction of Bitcoin since last year and will continue till the market appreciate then I will sell.

Yes, fudder are everywhere, beginners need to be learn to hold on to their little beginning

This is for everyone to get the information, most bitcoiners don't give attention to FUD I my self I don't believe in FUD because it's give this emotional feelings to discourage you in the CRYPTO atmosphere.

I will stand on my own though I will listen to some fuds since it can move the market and if there’s a negative news expect for the price to dump. Bitcoiners should have their own strategies and don’t listen to any fud because it can make them more weak and it cause panic, so be knowledgeable enough.

Long time holders of bitcoin will not be affected by fud as they've gone through a lot of this already. And if you are a holder, it means you understand how crypto really works. So for me, I just ignore those FUD and continue what I am supposed to do.

You should know to control it ,
Learn to educate yourself don't let the fake news get you don't let the rumors control you.

Fear, Uncertainty and doubt is a common syndrome to most investors, most especially the big investors. It is an emotion that gets hold of individuals even when they try not to give in. This can actually be curtained when you risk an amount you know you can path with.

FUD is normally spread by people with limited or no knowledge in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency at large. These people are too impatient and think the crypto space is a get-rich-quick avenue, hence once they witness a dip in price of Bitcoin, they begin to spread false news that Bitcoin is dead. Thanks to OP, this thread is very informative.

There will always be FUD since people spend a lot of their time doing anything possible to manipulate the market in their favor. 
It would be a cold day in Hell if everyone suddenly became honest and stopped telling lies for their own benefits. 

Yeah and people are already aware of the effects of giving in to fud with it being mentioned very often in bitcoin forums and discussions. We have an idea already if people are just fanning flames to start panic and it's usually just newbies that get victimized by these rumors.

Bitcoin itself and so the other coins have proving to us how potential they are and so we don't have to feel discomfort when somebody spread FUDs. They aren't in crypto space and so they can't speak good things about crypto. But for everyone who really knows about crypto will simply get amazed. We believe and even give trust this thing for many years and there is no need to be worried of how many negative news we heard, it won't make the market turning down.

1. Buy Bitcoin

2. Cold storage + backup

3. Don't listen to anyone

Enjoy  :)

FUD's are from day one of this forum all they wanted to do is spreading rumours and make their coin popular it's kind of marketing I guess sometimes they encourage few shit coins and we need to be very clear that BTC is and will be a star competitor in this crypto market.

good for you that your were enlightened before u sell all your holdings..this will give you more losses than gains... Sometimes we need to learn to do our own research in order for us not easily drown by all the FUDS spreading about bitcoin... Proper knowledge regarding cryptocurrency will eventually will give you more profits than losses.

FUD are like media person where they will create tension to everyone by spreading rumors, If we have already planned it as a long-term then why should we want to turn back and see the past stories? Bitcoin is like a gold in other word where it has a special value in the market. I do see bitcoin as a life changer for those who have Invested in BTC are waiting for their turn.

You were right! Now btc is worth 3x-4x more than at the beginning of the year.

FUD is for the weak. Anyone with anything to do with it.


Yes and just like media they speculate as far as they can go and make up all sorts of things. They also sensationalize things to make them more exciting.

Maybe it should be equipped with a lot of considerations in response to the news, if not then someone will cause a direct selling reaction at that time, I still remember about the spread of bulk spam emails with information about stable coins until the price falls

It is a wrong statement to say that FUD are here in this forum from day one, if you say that you are seeing after you registered then it might be true, when bitcoin was created no one here started creating FUD, it all started when the public started trading bitcoin exchanges and in order to manipulate the price inducing fear they come up with stories so that people would scare and sell off their coins.

Those people who are trying to discourage others are in the minority. Bitcoin is in a bad spot because there is nobody taking responsibility for it. A normal company has a face that can be blamed and employees who work on its PR. Bitcoin is as popular as the community wants it to be and it scares investors away because there's no frontman.

If you can accept that you have nothing to fear.

As the cryptocurrency network is functional on a decentralized platform the market will change its trend in anytime. This will be done by the whales, and one should not fall for it. Because to some level the whales do it, beyond that only the users can make it happen through speculation.

For this reason quite often the FUD gets circulated through several forms. We need to analyze better and react only to the right thing.

Most of the people who makes these speculations too are most at times the BTC whales and they just want to induce panic sell so that they could bag in more for the future. Just think of it  the last time you heard BTC is gonna die. They are just playing with your mind and its up to you to make the right choice

Any fud being spread is just a means to bit down the price in order for them to be able to buy back at a lower price so they can sell at a higher price, this is just a manipulative means to get the price low and buy. Every trader should understand this now and not be frightened any time there is an ongoing fud about bitcoin

No matter all the warnings there will be always users who will fall for FUD. And that is the intention, to confuse users and to spread panic. That is why education and trustworthy information are very important, because there will always be users who don't know enough about Bitcoin and crypto market and they could easily be misinformed.

They can spread all the false information for all i care, some of us know the potential of bitcoin and still believe it will reach another all time high. I have no plans of selling my Bitcoins at this cheap market. I am holding mine till we reach another all time high.

Not everyone has the ability to hodl for a long time because a person lose is another person win. So regardless of them selling or hodling, not everyone will be a winner in this market. Seeing the rapid growth in bitcoin price for the past 3 months is a sign that Q4 will surely deliver than our expectations. So if you want to hold then hodl, if not relax and see what's coming next.

We can't stop the spread of FUD in this network and thats for sure, with the network being decentralized and highly volatile, there'll always be times when fake news would spread panic and uncertainty in the hearts  of investors.

Now that's the reason why they must understand that's it's only a minor trick to get the price low so some particular set of people(whales)can buy at a lower price before normalization.
I usually take good advantage of this period though(buy when the rumor hits the market)

There are lots of true bitcoiners and die hard hodlers on this space and the evidence is the price  . that also means that we all here are immune to funds no matter how influencial or controversial those people that is makinv the fuds  . but but , you did mention trump earlier ?  I heard trump is not a fan of bitcoin and what if he will banned bitcoin on the u.s one day ? Their fud imunity still makes no sense

Those who are saying that Bitcoin is a scam do not know anything about Bitcoin. For sure they only knew about it is the price that they can gain when they buy Bitcoin. But it is not only the price, but it is also about the technology and the changes it can bring to our world when Bitcoin and the blockchain will be used in the different sector of our society.

People who are involved in crypto for few years have seen bitcoin prices to move from 1000$ to 19800$ and then back to 3100$. And when it seems bitcoin will be buried, it has again gone up to 13000$. We know how bitcoin works and we all knows that bitcoin should never be sold on fud because fud is only to make the retail investor panic and the institutional investors to get more coins for cheap.