Bitcoin Forum

Do you think there is enough awareness for Bitcoin and other leading cryptocurrencies. I really do not care much about all the others but Bitcoin must be supported for global adoption. Those of us that have benefited from the coin will have much more to gain in terms of value. Global commerce will gain in terms of reduced restrictions.

But the coin community isn't really doing enough save sitting around and waiting for centralized authorities to determine the trend. The reality is that governments map out policies that favor their fiat, so should the community.

I have started seeing the coin community as the custodian of Bitcoin and its success. I think we should take the bull by the horn and effectively market the coin like a business. This post for instance shows how ICOs can market their tokens like real business entities. By extention, Bitcoin enthusiasts should find ways to promote the coin for massive adoption. Fiat is business to governments. Bitcoin should be business to us.
https://cryptoinfowatch.com/a-clickfunnels-review-automating-your-ico/

Your attitude is like the one represented by the green party. For instance:
People should find ways to fight pollution!
We should reduce fume emissions and start using electric cars and hybrids!

Great slogans, but that's all they are. If you try to persuade me to use an electric car I'll just laugh, because a typical electric car costs 3 times more than a similar one with a petrol engine.
It's the same situation with advertising Bitcoin. I'm telling people around me about it and I'm always up for discussion, but I'm not going to spend money on advertising it in the media. I'm not that dedicated and I'm not that rich. Maybe some millionaires, the ones who sold at 20k could step in?

Everyone can be as enthusiastic as you, but not everyone can really spend money for advertisements and such just to get the word out there. The internet alone is already an enough resource for people to learn more about bitcoin, if they so do wish. As for the trend you're referring to, given that there isn't a central figure that controls the ins and outs for bitcoin, anyone are free to enter the market, and any government can create regulations and laws centered for their own nation regarding the use of bitcoin. No matter how many rich guys from bitcoin step in and make the move, that simply wouldn't change a thing as again, this is a free market, and they don't have the authority to do drastic changes for bitcoin and surely, not everyone would listen to them too.

The coin community is the building block of bitcoin's network and it supports the price and is the reason for rhe adoption and attention bitcoin is getting.
There have been lots of seminars and webinars on bitcoin awareness organized by enthusiasts.
Centralized authorities in your context is not limited to the government. Industries and infrastructures would be a great addition and would form more solid support for the community.

There is no doubt, that we shouldn't just sit and wait for governments to take control of the cryptocurrency, the promotion depends only on the community

People had a lot to learn about this kind of market we can not just let someone chew on this kind of information and if he feels the need to just spit it because he burnt his tongue that is not the right thing to do, I really think the right way to present this is if certain people that have already have knowledge of this kind of market would gather help from one another but I really think that would happen because many enthusiasts really want to be unanimous in this kind of thing.

I totally agree here

Market the coin as a business?
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency, it's not a business.


Oh right...
You mean bitcoinists should start lying to everybody that bitcoin can cure cancer, invent time travel, label carrots and so on?
The moment this non-sense would start I would probably turn bearish.



There are probably a hundred threads like this that pop up ey month when some user tries to make the people rise and fight and promote and...
But I've yet to see a few that start like
"In the past, I've done this and that and that to promote bitcoin, here is how you can help 1) 2) 3) 4)"

I can't help but see these topics like, do something for god sake, my investment is down 80%!

Thats it mate,spreading the word of crypto for all the people we love and thn they will do the same,it will be domino effect and the world will learn what is crypton$the advantage of having this than what banks can offer

I believe that we are the one who’s responsible for the popularity and acceptance of bitcoin and ofcourse all the cryptocurrencies.lets just do it tomorrow and to the days would come to benefits us and the whole community

Well bitcoin is a decentralized currency and at that its operations is not back by law that alone have affected the level at which the general public will view it, it our responsibility to spread the good news about bitcoin but it has limitations and most people are so slow to that due to the volatility of the market which is unpredictable.

Actually media advertising is not a good way to advertise bitcoin because of the price and effectiveness. People may know bitcoin but there are certain standards that should be follow so that it would not mislead an information. The better option is by word of mouth and social media. Its a lot cheaper (specially word of mouth) and all you have to do is to post your achievements in bitcoin and how you did it. Its very simple yet effective.

Unless I own a business that revolves and needs bitcoin to live then I might spend much money to advertise it. But as of now, I am not. So I think the basic usage and showing people that this is what I bought with bitcoin is a small but successful word of mouth advertisement.

Just do our part.

It's because lots of newbies entered with the wrong mindset in the first place, that's why when they can't take the heat, they immediately went on because they will easily be burned here. For me this community has done so much to really raise awareness, its that people really don't care because they're in just for the money and greed.

Bitcoin does not need to be promoted, and mass adoption could achieve without focusing too much on advertisement. Just look back at how Bitcoin started, no single promotion is required, it is just the mainstream that aware how potential Bitcoin technologies are. We just need to continues to develop Bitcoin, and as the time goes by some user have an increase the awareness of how corrupt the system is, and how could Bitcoin fix that.

We are already promoting but only at our best capacity, by being active in this forum and helping this community grow, it's already a way to promote bitcoin. It was the government made the bitcoin's popularity now because they want to regulate us, and for me, popularity does not mean the price should rise easily because it will take time, it's about investors confidence as at the current stage, investors affect the price more compared to the regular user of the coin.

This is something that most people have been saying for years, but a lot of people just kept on doing nothing. Well, a lot of them are continuously moaning about the drop in the price and some are even blaming others that are doing something.  :o

Get your ass off that chair and start doing something to spread adoption. <Arrange Bitcoin meetups in your area and invite new people or go to local merchants and ask if they ever considered accepting Bitcoin as a payment option>  :P

Individuals can make a huge difference. <Look at Andreas Antonopoulos for inspiration>  ;)

I don't think it is a good idea overall

Really, why would you want to advertise a currency? Have you seen anyone advertising the US dollar (or Russian ruble, for that matter)? The whole idea as such looks fruitless and useless to me. If a currency is good and superior to its competitors, people will use it, otherwise it is no use advertising it in the first place. If anything, we should spread the word about useful services using Bitcoin, but ultimately, it is still the job for those who offer these services, not us, the consumers

Project behund the ICOs are real business, ofcourse they have to promote their project and it should has CMO. Do you think that people will leave bitcoin because of those new altcoins? Ofcourse no. If we depend on altcoin it means that we depend on the developer, if the developer fail then we are in the big problem but if we depend on bitcoin then actually we depend on the community and it's technology. We sure that this technology could solve many problem in term of transactions and economy. We don't need central authority for bitcoin.

Current situation in market cryptocurrencies cannot be separated from manipulation, manipulation will always exist because there is no clear regulation in regulating cryptocurrencies. Manipulation will always exist when there are still some people who do have a goal to gain profits by utilizing the panic of many people. So this is where we have to know and learn to be patient because manipulation will have an impact on people who cannot be patient.

What you have mentioned is very true and manipulation will always exist and this is not a problem just for bitcoin market but it is common for any other because today majority of people try to gain profits from anything and some go to the extend of doing manipulation and like you have mentioned if bitcoin wants to change its path it is our responsibility as its users to change it to become successful because bitcoin on its own cannot do anything as a decentralized currency

You should be aware that wealthy people easily manipulate Bitcoin. If everyone likes to use Bitcoin and it becomes a global payment solution and who owns Bitcoin in large numbers will become a powerhouse of person? Be aware of this because it significantly affects us.

And there we have another claim of manipulation, but again, without anything to back it up. Mind explaining why you think that people with more money than you 'easily' manipulate Bitcoin?

Owning a lot of Bitcoins as whale doesn't necessarily grant you an advantage here. It does motivate you to contribute to the market in order to protect and maintain value, but manipulation certainly isn't part of that.

To add, with so many different large exchanges, you as whale have even less power to move the overall market, because there is always someone else with deeper pockets than you and with different plans.

IMO, it's just a matter of time before bitcoin or potentially another cryptocurrency becomes the main trading currency. It might even be unavoidable. Can't wait to see.

The market today seems to have a huge different form previous years( might say 5years ago). People have look to it as a progressive market and truly it is but its price fluctuations makes a huge changes. No one could assure now that tomorrow is a big day or not. Manipulation takes place when some big personalities came here and do business, but it couldn't be enough to make big change and controlled the market. It is just a normal activities around.

So what do you call it then? Though the market seems little stable this January

It is true there the awareness level about btc is not significant when comparing with other cryptocurrencies due to lack of a centralized party to push bitcoin into a successful path bitcoin adoption rate remains very slow even than some altcoins which were introduced very recently but if we users can do something as a community to promote bitcoin to increase its adoption it will help tremendously to continue its demand in the financial field and online businesses and I think it is something essential these days 

I have my own cafe and tried to integrate bitcoin as a payment. On the next week comission came to me and said if I wouldn't remove bitcoin, they will froze all my banks deposits and gave me a fine to pay.

Without us, trader, bitcoin is nothing.
We as the trader control bitcoin value , but I can confess that we can control bitcoin because we all know that bitcoin value depend on supply and demand so that's why the value still volatile until now

Traders do add a lot of value to bitcoin by providing liquidity.  All these trading bots getting cents for rapid trades help the market.  The market is volatile but I believe the recent crash from 6k was mainly due toe the Bitcoincash Hash war between Ver and Wright.  Many bitcoins were dumped to pay for that war and it caused a further sell off by other investors.

That's the whole point about cryptocurrencies

And how perverted it is. If Bitcoin is nothing without traders, it pretty much means that it is useless and worthless in real life and all of its value comes through speculation. Basically, it turns Bitcoin into a pyramid scheme where you can profit only by selling coins to someone else, i.e. not via real utility. Compare this to real assets like oil, for example. Would it be useless without speculators? Most likely, it would only be more valuable as its market price would reflect its real value, without speculative discounts or premiums


This is speculative value and it mostly adds to volatility

I really hope that we had one coin to pursue in this market and we all have to fulfill one goal to use that coin globally, but that is not the case now, we have thousands of coins and tokens combined and it is a divide and rule kind of policy which will not sustain for a long time, yet this is a billion dollar market and the top coins will survive the test of time.

Bitcoin started out to be a digital currency which is above the central authorities of any specific country but things are changing rapidly and most of them are waiting for the regulation to take place, the major fault is the abundance of ICO and other shitty projects which started in the mean time just to take advantage of the new market.
 

That what you consider manipulation is nothing more than people with deeper pockets than you opening and closing positions. If there was more liquidity available the movements wouldn't be as severe.

This market is literally a joke with how institutions can't be bothered to wire tens or even hundreds of millions to an exchange that doesn't know how to take care of that much capital.

I expect the situation to only improve when legacy institutions start their own spot trading platforms, because the exchanges as they are right now are incompetent and shady in most cases.

I think sitting around is the best option for citizens who are living in a crypto-friendly country but if you are living in countries that have governments that are against cryptocurrencies the best thing you can do is to have a protest and fight for your rights. Because they arw already on the losing side. When both citizens and crypto companies demanding for a change the governments will soon realize that they are missing an opportunity here, their fiat only rule is just really missing the point that crypto is not here to take o er your country. We need to change their views that with proper regulation it won't be the downfall of their country.

The devil, as always, is in paying precious attention to details

In this case, i.e. in the case of Bitcoin regulation, it is not so much about regulating Bitcoin as such (which, as you correctly noted, is above the central authorities of any specific country) as about regulating activities and operations of companies (and individuals too, for that matter) that are dealing and involved with Bitcoin as well as other cryptocurrencies, e.g. exchanges, payment processors, merchants, etc

Regulation of cryptocurrency specific questions, e.g. taxes, also falls into this category. I think this is an important detail which we shouldn't forget to point out and an important distinction which we shouldn't forget to make when talking about "regulating Bitcoin"

For me, I think we should stop ICOs  or limit the number of ICO's every year. Because if you think about it, a lot of money is just getting squandered on projects that has no guarantee that will succeed. It's better to fund coins that are doing great most importantly bitcoin and let's put our money there for the infastructures and etc.

actually, it's quite the opposite. traders obviously add liquidity to both sides of the order book. increased liquidity fundamentally reduces volatility, because it takes increased buying/selling volume to move the market.

what happens when order books are thin? slippage, which means higher volatility. can you imagine how thin order books would be if traders didn't exist?!

I definitely see what you mean

Moreover, I would likely say essentially the same if someone came up with a similar claim (that speculative value adds to volatility). But I'm not that someone and I can easily tell you why and where you are in fact wrong. Basically, you assume that Bitcoin is just about trading (read, speculation) and in these very specific conditions, you might be right after all. But if we take a wider look, your point can be easily refuted and this also explains why my claim is actually correct if we look beyond sheer speculation

I intentionally pointed out that it is speculative value since there can also be real value determined by real use. And if we take into account this value, your whole argument is instantly reversed. More specifically, more real value leads to less speculative value (which is kinda obvious), but less speculative value means less liquidity in the markets (as liquidity gets consumed by real application), which, according to your reasoning, should lead to higher volatility. But it can't because real value is called real for a reason

i'm not saying bitcoin is just about trading. i'm saying that increased market liquidity dampens volatility. that is a matter of fact.

whether speculation by traders adds volatility above and beyond their reduction of volatility via liquidity is a matter for debate. but you could never even begin to prove that traders represent a net increase in volatility.


what is "real use" though?

if you're talking about people who buy BTC and use it as a p2p currency, they increase volatility by buying up market supply (reducing liquidity).

if you're talking about investors, they're speculating on the market just the same as traders (except they remove liquidity from the market for longer periods of time).

the difference is, traders are short term speculators, meaning they provide liquidity for long term speculators, absorbing their supply and demand. we can't assume traders have a permanent net bullish or bearish bias in any market; all we can do is assume they are providing liquidity, which dampens volatility by definition.

A market. Price discovery. Something like that.

There are definitely attempts at price manipulation, but I think it mostly centers around short-term whipsaws that cause stops and margin calls to trigger on Bitmex.

Bitcoin might be illiquid by conventional market standards, but I think people underestimate how much capital would be required (and how risky it would be) to "manipulate" the market into a mid/long term price trend.

well this is not manipulation but there is a large group of whales who like to play prices, with the funds they have they are free to regulate the market as they wish. This whale's whale is very annoying  ::)

The ICO project cannot be stopped !! all we have to do is limit it. There must be an agency or institution that regulates the establishment of an ICO project. So when there is an ICO project that wants to be realized, it must verify various supporting elements, so that the ICO project can get verification and can continue the project. This must be done immediately because if the current situation continues, the ICO project will probably be seen as something that hinders the development of crypto. We must immediately make changes because with these changes a project will develop and of course there will be fewer ICO projects available, and the most important thing is that the ICO project has the quality to realize all previously promised visions and missions. This will also give investors confidence to invest and in the end the volume of crypto transactions will increase rapidly.

they do that to make small investors panic, after that they will buy bitcoin at low prices. when they already have lots of bitcoins, they will make positive news so that the price of bitcoin rises.

Bitcoin and ethereum must be truly supported for global and mainstream adoptions.  We cannot deny ourself the reality on ground that bitcoin is been manipulated in terms of pricing and public adoptions.  The mainstream media are putting in the bad shape and hiding the reality.

It is "a matter of fact" only in very specific conditions (i.e. in your head mostly)


This sounds like complete gibberish to me. But I will just say that traders are not the only actors


Basically, you don't see the forest for the trees

This shows that you can't look at the bigger picture, and thus can't understand why your whole argument doesn't hold. You feel like you are right indeed because you can't possibly grasp how you can be wrong. I understand your pains and anguish. And I tell you why you feel like that. You don't see why real use overrides speculative value because this real use in case of Bitcoin is virtually non-existent. That's why you are technically correct (with Bitcoin), but still wrong in general, "fundamentally" as you say

If adoption is not done through talks than I don't know how it will be done.

You talk about bitcoin, I learn about it, I talk about it someone else learns about it, the more we talk about the more people learn about bitcoin and in the end we all come to a level where everyone knows what bitcoin is and can talk about it and that creates a situation where everyone either uses bitcoin or at least knows about it.

If we can create that world than the adoption will increase. There will be more and more people that use bitcoin in the future. Don't forget that technology is adopted by young people first and many young people are not business owners, there will be more and more business owners in the future that are young right now and those people will find a way to accept bitcoin.

are you serious? now you're even contesting the idea that "increased market liquidity dampens volatility"? if you can't accept the fact that thicker books reduce volatility, we're at an impasse. this forum is full of traders who can attest to that fact because they actually understand how order books and slippage work. you're just arguing for argument's sake now.


nobody said traders were the only actors. you claimed that traders increase volatility. i'm merely saying you can't prove it---not with logic nor evidence.


how am i wrong in general? you didn't actually establish that.....

Bitcoin has made this great impact on world's economic without any support from governments and traditional financial institutions!  The media has not helped matter in any way and I agree with op that bitcoin was not well published and most of the information we see online except cryptocurrencies forum like this are against bitcoin.  Blockchain technology is the future of our financial system and it will do our society good if from now we make a decision to accept it and adopt it into the world financial system.

very true but also one thing about adoption that people usually miss is that it happens slowly. for example whenever a new technology is introduced in the world (portable phones which we now call cell phone, cars when everyone was using horse and cart to go around,....) it is first adopted by those who are more enthusiast about the technology then by the wise people who see the potential and then after a while it is adapted so that it is easy to use for average Joe and afterwards it is adopted by everyone. right now bitcoin is in the first two steps.

so in the end it is not just about awareness. people may already know about bitcoin but are either to lazy to check it out or too scared to do it. but eventually they all will. like now that they are all using cars without even remembering that once they were scared of this loud machine that burned fuel instead of eating hay and shitting on the streets :D

And with this you get caught red-handed

As you seem to acknowledge yourself that "this is speculative value and it mostly adds to volatility" is not the same as "increased market liquidity dampens volatility", huh. So what exactly are you arguing with here and who is actually arguing for argument's sake now? Speculative value can't but add to market (price) volatility in exactly the same way as real value can't but take from that volatility, per definition (speculative value being anything but real value). It is sort of accounting identity which, believe me, is not worth challenging or arguing with

The market will rise high when people around will start to recognized and adopt this system, people like us who knew about this system should focus on sharing the benefits and keep moving forward to introduce to many the good side of blockchain and cryptocurrency, media didn't play a good role but the can help changing the view of many if certain ideas will come from us, it will be an addition to the end users and since crypto is determine with its supplies and demands it won't be feared being manipulated.

The problems with trying to promote bitcoin as a business is that the analogy you are making does not work, icos are private business because they ask for funds in exchange for a part of the supply of the coins, so they are effectively selling shares of their company, bitcoin never went through anything like that, at first the coins were given for free to anyone that asked or you could mine your own for almost no cost, so while we can promote bitcoin to try to push the level of adoption we should never think of bitcoin as a centralized business.