This Isn't Manipulation

[maianh09]

Do you think there is enough awareness for Bitcoin and other leading cryptocurrencies. I really do not care much about all the others but Bitcoin must be supported for global adoption. Those of us that have benefited from the coin will have much more to gain in terms of value. Global commerce will gain in terms of reduced restrictions.

But the coin community isn't really doing enough save sitting around and waiting for centralized authorities to determine the trend. The reality is that governments map out policies that favor their fiat, so should the community.

I have started seeing the coin community as the custodian of Bitcoin and its success. I think we should take the bull by the horn and effectively market the coin like a business. This post for instance shows how ICOs can market their tokens like real business entities. By extention, Bitcoin enthusiasts should find ways to promote the coin for massive adoption. Fiat is business to governments. Bitcoin should be business to us.
https://cryptoinfowatch.com/a-clickfunnels-review-automating-your-ico/

You should be aware that wealthy people easily manipulate Bitcoin. If everyone likes to use Bitcoin and it becomes a global payment solution and who owns Bitcoin in large numbers will become a powerhouse of person? Be aware of this because it significantly affects us.

[BitHodler]

You should be aware that wealthy people easily manipulate Bitcoin. If everyone likes to use Bitcoin and it becomes a global payment solution and who owns Bitcoin in large numbers will become a powerhouse of person? Be aware of this because it significantly affects us.

And there we have another claim of manipulation, but again, without anything to back it up. Mind explaining why you think that people with more money than you 'easily' manipulate Bitcoin?

Owning a lot of Bitcoins as whale doesn't necessarily grant you an advantage here. It does motivate you to contribute to the market in order to protect and maintain value, but manipulation certainly isn't part of that.

To add, with so many different large exchanges, you as whale have even less power to move the overall market, because there is always someone else with deeper pockets than you and with different plans.

[rubixcryptoexchange]

IMO, it's just a matter of time before bitcoin or potentially another cryptocurrency becomes the main trading currency. It might even be unavoidable. Can't wait to see.

[Yamifoud]

You should be aware that wealthy people easily manipulate Bitcoin. If everyone likes to use Bitcoin and it becomes a global payment solution and who owns Bitcoin in large numbers will become a powerhouse of person? Be aware of this because it significantly affects us.

And there we have another claim of manipulation, but again, without anything to back it up. Mind explaining why you think that people with more money than you 'easily' manipulate Bitcoin?

Owning a lot of Bitcoins as whale doesn't necessarily grant you an advantage here. It does motivate you to contribute to the market in order to protect and maintain value, but manipulation certainly isn't part of that.

To add, with so many different large exchanges, you as whale have even less power to move the overall market, because there is always someone else with deeper pockets than you and with different plans.

The market today seems to have a huge different form previous years( might say 5years ago). People have look to it as a progressive market and truly it is but its price fluctuations makes a huge changes. No one could assure now that tomorrow is a big day or not. Manipulation takes place when some big personalities came here and do business, but it couldn't be enough to make big change and controlled the market. It is just a normal activities around.

[Inosend]

So what do you call it then? Though the market seems little stable this January

[Sithawaka]

It is true there the awareness level about btc is not significant when comparing with other cryptocurrencies due to lack of a centralized party to push bitcoin into a successful path bitcoin adoption rate remains very slow even than some altcoins which were introduced very recently but if we users can do something as a community to promote bitcoin to increase its adoption it will help tremendously to continue its demand in the financial field and online businesses and I think it is something essential these days 

[oudekaas]

I have my own cafe and tried to integrate bitcoin as a payment. On the next week comission came to me and said if I wouldn't remove bitcoin, they will froze all my banks deposits and gave me a fine to pay.

[detector]

... if we users can do something as a community to promote bitcoin to increase its adoption it will help tremendously to continue its demand in the financial field and online businesses and I think it is something essential these days  

Without us, trader, bitcoin is nothing.
We as the trader control bitcoin value , but I can confess that we can control bitcoin because we all know that bitcoin value depend on supply and demand so that's why the value still volatile until now

[Indamuck]

... if we users can do something as a community to promote bitcoin to increase its adoption it will help tremendously to continue its demand in the financial field and online businesses and I think it is something essential these days  

Without us, trader, bitcoin is nothing.
We as the trader control bitcoin value , but I can confess that we can control bitcoin because we all know that bitcoin value depend on supply and demand so that's why the value still volatile until now

Traders do add a lot of value to bitcoin by providing liquidity.  All these trading bots getting cents for rapid trades help the market.  The market is volatile but I believe the recent crash from 6k was mainly due toe the Bitcoincash Hash war between Ver and Wright.  Many bitcoins were dumped to pay for that war and it caused a further sell off by other investors.

[deisik]

... if we users can do something as a community to promote bitcoin to increase its adoption it will help tremendously to continue its demand in the financial field and online businesses and I think it is something essential these days 

Without us, trader, bitcoin is nothing

That's the whole point about cryptocurrencies

And how perverted it is. If Bitcoin is nothing without traders, it pretty much means that it is useless and worthless in real life and all of its value comes through speculation. Basically, it turns Bitcoin into a pyramid scheme where you can profit only by selling coins to someone else, i.e. not via real utility. Compare this to real assets like oil, for example. Would it be useless without speculators? Most likely, it would only be more valuable as its market price would reflect its real value, without speculative discounts or premiums

Traders do add a lot of value to bitcoin by providing liquidity

This is speculative value and it mostly adds to volatility

[eaLiTy]

Do you think there is enough awareness for Bitcoin and other leading cryptocurrencies. I really do not care much about all the others but Bitcoin must be supported for global adoption. Those of us that have benefited from the coin will have much more to gain in terms of value. Global commerce will gain in terms of reduced restrictions.

I really hope that we had one coin to pursue in this market and we all have to fulfill one goal to use that coin globally, but that is not the case now, we have thousands of coins and tokens combined and it is a divide and rule kind of policy which will not sustain for a long time, yet this is a billion dollar market and the top coins will survive the test of time.

But the coin community isn't really doing enough save sitting around and waiting for centralized authorities to determine the trend. The reality is that governments map out policies that favor their fiat, so should the community.

Bitcoin started out to be a digital currency which is above the central authorities of any specific country but things are changing rapidly and most of them are waiting for the regulation to take place, the major fault is the abundance of ICO and other shitty projects which started in the mean time just to take advantage of the new market.
 

[BitHodler]

Manipulation takes place when some big personalities came here and do business, but it couldn't be enough to make big change and controlled the market. It is just a normal activities around.

That what you consider manipulation is nothing more than people with deeper pockets than you opening and closing positions. If there was more liquidity available the movements wouldn't be as severe.

This market is literally a joke with how institutions can't be bothered to wire tens or even hundreds of millions to an exchange that doesn't know how to take care of that much capital.

I expect the situation to only improve when legacy institutions start their own spot trading platforms, because the exchanges as they are right now are incompetent and shady in most cases.

[Harlot]

I think sitting around is the best option for citizens who are living in a crypto-friendly country but if you are living in countries that have governments that are against cryptocurrencies the best thing you can do is to have a protest and fight for your rights. Because they arw already on the losing side. When both citizens and crypto companies demanding for a change the governments will soon realize that they are missing an opportunity here, their fiat only rule is just really missing the point that crypto is not here to take o er your country. We need to change their views that with proper regulation it won't be the downfall of their country.

[deisik]

Bitcoin started out to be a digital currency which is above the central authorities of any specific country but things are changing rapidly and most of them are waiting for the regulation to take place, the major fault is the abundance of ICO and other shitty projects which started in the mean time just to take advantage of the new market

The devil, as always, is in paying precious attention to details

In this case, i.e. in the case of Bitcoin regulation, it is not so much about regulating Bitcoin as such (which, as you correctly noted, is above the central authorities of any specific country) as about regulating activities and operations of companies (and individuals too, for that matter) that are dealing and involved with Bitcoin as well as other cryptocurrencies, e.g. exchanges, payment processors, merchants, etc

Regulation of cryptocurrency specific questions, e.g. taxes, also falls into this category. I think this is an important detail which we shouldn't forget to point out and an important distinction which we shouldn't forget to make when talking about "regulating Bitcoin"

[FUD Expert]

For me, I think we should stop ICOs  or limit the number of ICO's every year. Because if you think about it, a lot of money is just getting squandered on projects that has no guarantee that will succeed. It's better to fund coins that are doing great most importantly bitcoin and let's put our money there for the infastructures and etc.

[figmentofmyass]

Traders do add a lot of value to bitcoin by providing liquidity

This is speculative value and it mostly adds to volatility

actually, it's quite the opposite. traders obviously add liquidity to both sides of the order book. increased liquidity fundamentally reduces volatility, because it takes increased buying/selling volume to move the market.

what happens when order books are thin? slippage, which means higher volatility. can you imagine how thin order books would be if traders didn't exist?!

[deisik]

Traders do add a lot of value to bitcoin by providing liquidity

This is speculative value and it mostly adds to volatility

actually, it's quite the opposite. traders obviously add liquidity to both sides of the order book. increased liquidity fundamentally reduces volatility, because it takes increased buying/selling volume to move the market.

what happens when order books are thin? slippage, which means higher volatility. can you imagine how thin order books would be if traders didn't exist?!

I definitely see what you mean

Moreover, I would likely say essentially the same if someone came up with a similar claim (that speculative value adds to volatility). But I'm not that someone and I can easily tell you why and where you are in fact wrong. Basically, you assume that Bitcoin is just about trading (read, speculation) and in these very specific conditions, you might be right after all. But if we take a wider look, your point can be easily refuted and this also explains why my claim is actually correct if we look beyond sheer speculation

I intentionally pointed out that it is speculative value since there can also be real value determined by real use. And if we take into account this value, your whole argument is instantly reversed. More specifically, more real value leads to less speculative value (which is kinda obvious), but less speculative value means less liquidity in the markets (as liquidity gets consumed by real application), which, according to your reasoning, should lead to higher volatility. But it can't because real value is called real for a reason

[figmentofmyass]

Traders do add a lot of value to bitcoin by providing liquidity

This is speculative value and it mostly adds to volatility

actually, it's quite the opposite. traders obviously add liquidity to both sides of the order book. increased liquidity fundamentally reduces volatility, because it takes increased buying/selling volume to move the market.

what happens when order books are thin? slippage, which means higher volatility. can you imagine how thin order books would be if traders didn't exist?!

I definitely see what you mean

Moreover, I would likely say essentially the same if someone came up with a similar claim (that speculative value adds to volatility). But I'm not that someone and I can easily tell you why and where you are in fact wrong. Basically, you assume that Bitcoin is just about trading (read, speculation) and in these very specific conditions, you might be right after all. But if we take a wider look, your point can be easily refuted and this also explains why my claim is actually correct if we look beyond sheer speculation

i'm not saying bitcoin is just about trading. i'm saying that increased market liquidity dampens volatility. that is a matter of fact.

whether speculation by traders adds volatility above and beyond their reduction of volatility via liquidity is a matter for debate. but you could never even begin to prove that traders represent a net increase in volatility.

I intentionally pointed out that it is speculative value since there can also be real value determined by real use. And if we take into account this value, your whole argument is instantly reversed.

what is "real use" though?

if you're talking about people who buy BTC and use it as a p2p currency, they increase volatility by buying up market supply (reducing liquidity).

if you're talking about investors, they're speculating on the market just the same as traders (except they remove liquidity from the market for longer periods of time).

the difference is, traders are short term speculators, meaning they provide liquidity for long term speculators, absorbing their supply and demand. we can't assume traders have a permanent net bullish or bearish bias in any market; all we can do is assume they are providing liquidity, which dampens volatility by definition.

[exstasie]

So what do you call it then? Though the market seems little stable this January

A market. Price discovery. Something like that.

There are definitely attempts at price manipulation, but I think it mostly centers around short-term whipsaws that cause stops and margin calls to trigger on Bitmex.

Bitcoin might be illiquid by conventional market standards, but I think people underestimate how much capital would be required (and how risky it would be) to "manipulate" the market into a mid/long term price trend.

[b3j0]

well this is not manipulation but there is a large group of whales who like to play prices, with the funds they have they are free to regulate the market as they wish. This whale's whale is very annoying