Bitcoin Forum

I just want to give feedback on how to improve the system.

How can VINSIN be able to scam so many people before me if the trust system is perfect???
There are not even 1 real customer feedback on the trust till me.
DTs feedback aren't to be trusted!

As a member of the public, there should be a general elections whereby we are allowed to vote who will keep their place in the DTs!
Some DTs are clearly abusing this system.

I do agree some have done a good job! But some are just extreme abusers of their positions!

You spammers and scammers will vote to make DT? If so, that day is not so far to give the world to the scammer. If you want to say against any DT then post about him/her.
Edit: VINSIN tagged negatively too long ago so, if you are a good member then how you can be scammed? Why DT will be responsible for your being scammed? Any DT suggested you make any transaction on VINSIN?

No point posting!
It should be a fair and square elections.

I'm not saying that they are responsible, but the feedback is inaccurate!
As i said, it should be real real customers feedback!

The elections are fair but newbies have very little weight in the process - without the merit requirements DT would be overtaken by whoever could spin up the most accounts.

That's why you got scam. Do you know what is the full meaning of DT ?
D=?
T=?

You are too late. DT1 already selected by user. There was elections and user vote DT1 members.
Do you know how work trust system? What is DT1 and DT2 ?
You just registered 2 days back and you want to vote DT members? How is that possible? May be I can make 500 new account for vote me according to your logic.

You need to become DT?
1. Your rank should be above member rank and must be active on forum.
2. You need 10 vote from 10 earned merited user and 2 vote from 250 earned merited users.

Collect it then you will become DT.

Don't be surprise when you see comments like that from newly created account. They're all alternative account. The user might be using his main account to view this topic and possible laughing. This user is just seeking attention, I don't think this topic has anything useful to offer.  It isn't worth our time.

Default Trust!
come on, the admins can make rules,
Maybe like users have registered 30 days or smthing, newbies activity have to be more than let's say 70.
1 IP 1 user, and DT are not allowed to vote for themselves.
Or even make a thread!

Because voting system by merited users can be unfair. They maybe biased.
I don't want to be DT.
Merit already is hard to earned. For every 100 newbies, maybe only 5 can rank up.

Newbie guide:

1. Make quality posts.
2. Contribute to the community.
3. Be patient.

Simple as that. Quality posts WILL receive merit. If joining a signature campaign is your only reason for wanting to receive merit it is highly unlikely you will receive any.

thats the problem!
there is no such thing as quality posts...
Most quality posts does not even receive any merits!
and those with merits are stingy.

+ the DTs will always gang up with each other to bash on others!
How is that fair?

And the DTs have not answered my questions on how can VINSIN be able to scam so many people before me if the trust system is perfect???

DT is not working to stop dealing with anyone. They just tag proven scammer or possible scammer. If you want to trade with 10+ negative trusted person that is your wish no one will force you not to trade.  So, anyone makes a trade is his own risk? There are too many escrows why you and they who have been scammed not used any escrow? 99.5% times scam occurred for greedy or for a lack of knowledge.

I don't understand it, the guy is complaining about being scammed by a known scammer with several negative trusts, then blaming it on the very system that warned him the guy was a scammer in the first place?

Makes no sense.

Looks like he wants 10 negative trust (not 10 green trust) and he will become a DT1 member, nothing to say for this.

your posts are low quality - so to prove the point, please link 4 posts that are of high quality that you believe should have merit.

So many DT already answers you. Let me ask you a question, why you pay to VINSIN since he was tagged by DT member. Tag means a Warning: Trade with extreme caution! . Why you didn't follow DT warning and now asking questions to DT why you got scam. If you pay to scammer how can we stop you? If you now want to pay him 100$ then how can we prevent you?We are just tag for warn people's. Don't make Childish question.

Once again your answer,
You got scam because you don't believe DT feedback's.  

simple, DTs are not customers!
you have transacted with him before?

Why are DTs even allowed to give trusted feedback even though they are not customers?
All the feedback is about account selling with no real customers! And my honest customer feedback is untrusted?
I can't see the logic here!

you can't see the system is ripped off? you are just defending them because you are on DT lists.
Thats the problem.

Another Example is how you guys even ganged up together to bash on others. How to trust?

I do my manual check first, and there are not even real customers there. I need a real customer feedback!
Not some inner circle "trusted" gang who just anyhow give feedback!

DTs feedback is not customers feedback!

The customer can leave his feedback or open an accusation thread in the reputation board, DTs will act based on the customer claims after checking all the proofs.

Use the search button to look for how the trust system works.

How to know if they are really real customers!?
This way, any dealer will create many alts and use them to leave him positive feedback.

They have made a transaction or not so what? Let me give you an example: Police may catch a criminal but do you think every criminal make offense to the police? If not, then why they will catch?

As police catch criminal, to keep the forum scam free or make less scam DT will give feedback. You can exclude anyone if you do not trust that person so that person trust will show on your untrusted list.

To see the feedback you have to read comments and reference link sothat you would be able to know the actual reason, reason of that feedback.

i cant see the link here.
Why are you even linking this to police?

Its like saying when i do buying and selling, let's say on amazon, anyone can give feedback?
Even though they are not customers? Just because they are trusted by Amazon "inner-circle"?


This is customers to business!
Simple, as long as you transact, you have the right to give trusted feedback.

And there should not be any accounts that can give trusted feedback till they have transacted.

So let me get this straight, you are saying that DT members (or anyone else) can't tag scammers unless they actually got scammed by them?

On real-life police work to stop the offense and on this forum DT try to stop the scam.

On Amazon that is for trading only and there, payment can be checked. There are a lot of worker works to stop scammer. And for trade, you have to pay the fee (I am not sure if I am wrong then correct me.) But bitcointalk is a discussion platform where trading is only a sub-board. I want to say sub sub board. And on here there is no fee deduct by the site. So you can't compare these two.

On Amazon, the identities of both seller and buyer are known.
Unlike Amazon, here, it is impossible to prove the customer is not just an alt of the seller.

yes! that's how business work.
I didn't use escrow, that's my fault. Just like any business, there is escrow too.

There should be a default escrow in place! To make sure this is safe transactions.
It's called marketplace for a reason, just like Amazon, eBay.
So the seller built trust on real customers feedback.

But this thread is about how can anyone can give feedback even though they are not customers?



Thats amazon, i know of more legit marketplace in my country that does not take fee for buying and selling. The platform earn by being a gold member and above. You can sell more etc, get statistics.

So you can't compare these two.
then you can't compare police and forum too you see.


Are you sure? Because i have transacted there before , and i don't even know the seller.

so smack yourself in the face and move on you moron - you bought an account when its frowned upon, you dealt with a user without escrow as well.  2 fail safes that if you hadn't ignored them you wouldn't of lost money - but its everyone else's fault now?

fuck me how stupid are you

A trivia, OP's username means "I like Japanese Porn" ::)


Can you find ways to :
1. Prevent someone with multiple accounts have multiple votes
2. Prevent someone who wants to be (or stay as) DT from using money politics (buy someone's vote)
3. Make sure the election process can be proven fair without reveal any of users choice

If you can't solve those problem, i'm sure the election will be disaster and DT condition will become even worse


Then i should introduce you to this thread, Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5093271.0)

I always this thread every few days and send some merit to reported good posts if i have merit left.

hello! i said that this thread is about why anyone can give feedback to sellers! Not about escrow...




Even if i find ways, the DTs don't even value us newbies, no point!
They don't take any improvements at all.
As the saying goes, When there is a will, there is a way.

TMAN (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=98986) already told to provide four quality posts but OP failed to do so. Actually, OP is not trying to make quality post hence s/he is trying to buy a reputed account.

Even top ranked members are not spared from their ratings. Being a newbie or not knowing the things that can land you up in trouble is not an excuse. There are so many threads being made in Beginners and Help & Meta to help people know what is right or wrong and what can get you tagged by DT.

Being opinionated wont get you anywhere at all. You have been here for a shorter period of time than the rest of the members and you point is incorrect.

Of course you are free to participate in the forum as much as you want. But being a scumbag who decides to riot wont get you anywhere and in the end you will be the one suffering from depression.

See, you all ganged up on newbies even i provide a good valid point.

Thats the problem why DTs can't be trusted!
You just want to defend your positions.

You can't deny that giving anyone feedback even though they are not customers is a problem.
You just brushed it off because you are scared of losing your positions.

As i said, DT gang up together is also a problem even though others prove a valid point!

How many Jr member or member with low merits has replied to this thread? i only can see 1 newbie, even that is a fair view.

all i see is DT gang up to bash on newbies who prove a valid point.

because you are wrong and cannot backup your stupid claims




Post some decent posts and ill give you a clue - not one of yours are decent/quality/good. so find some others and ill rain some merits if they are merit worthy. 

you need to remember a newbies knowledge of bitcoin, altcoins and forum politics isn't as good as someone who has been here for 3 years.

I am wrong?

You can go to Amazon now and tell some sellers, i want to give you a negative feedback because you look like a scammer, but i don't want to buy from you.

Or even go to nearby shops, scold them for being a scammer even though they are not! But you don't buy anything from them.

The feedback says account seller not to be trusted?
You did not even buy from him how can you say he is not trusted?

This is wrong generalization!

Perfect example of how DT will gang up on others!
Yes, i lost my money, due to the fact maybe he is unfairly treated. And i did not use escrow.

but i repeat, this thread is above how can anybody give feedback without transacting?
this system is really ripped off.

And where does it says account selling is illegal?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1881867.0

This isn’t amazon or eBay, this place isn’t filled with bored housewife’s, you are stupid for trying to buy an account and you got scammed for ignoring a shit ton of red and not using escrow. The system isn’t broken your logic is

ok then what is the definition of marketplace? https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marketplace

bitcointalk stated here marketplace
http://prntscr.com/meq3lu

isn't amazon or ebay a marketplace? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Marketplace

still u have not provide a good point of why DT are allowed to give trusted feedback when they did not buy anything at all.

now, if there is like a default escrow system in place, but still sellers want to take transactions without escrow, then we, as customers, have the right to give bad feedback also.

Becuase "Default" trust are the most trusted users on the forum - you chose to ignore the tags and you got scammed - but its the systems fault? you do realise if every user posted feedback and it counted the forum would be swarming in scams due to the number effect - scammers would spin up thousands of alts and overtake this place.

More lies.

Default trust is home to proven liars, trust abusers and worse.

Do not trust anything this person says. He is a self confessed trust abuser that gives red trust to people for posting facts regarding his pals wrong doing.

Want proof... just ask.

every user? you think every users want to buy?
The problem now is that they have not even buy anything at all, why are they allowed to give trusted feedback?

Most trusted, but i don't see them having any transactions at all. How can their feedback automatically be placed on trusted?
I see that there is no logic here!

Thats why the trust is valid only for marketplace trade. And should be placed after buyer has bought items from seller. I think this is more fair.


i am not on either side right now, i just want to prove my point that the trust system has been abused.
I always provide a good fair point.
since the DT has been ganging up on me.

But maybe since i'm a newbie, "without power", they are bullying me.
It's always the people vote against the government.

Right lets use some logic here fella = using you as an example only

start up a business and every user can tag you = manipulation can happen, someone who doesn't like you can tag you 100 times

now lets say only people who have traded with you can tag you -
you start a business that is obviously a ponzi I as an experienced member of this forum know that people will lose money - how do we highlight this if I cannot tag you unless I have dealt with you?

prevention is better than cure and the real issue here is that you tried to buy an account and ignored red tags from trusted users and didn't use and escrow. if you hadn't ignored the tags and actually read around the forum you would realise that buying an account isn't cool and trusting someone "who default trust do not trust" is a fast way to lose money.

just take a chill and think about the above and you will see that DT is needed

if business you mean ICO?
For this i think a rating will be better.
bitcointalk rating system. Like icobench.
The level of scam something like that. I think it's more fair.
Whether they have legit team, Whitepaper is good or not, etc.
let the public decide, as i said, DT can be biased.
A good example is how they will gang up on me in this thread.

Of course you can say i can create many alts. Then let the admin choose the rating. Simple.
Can be improved as we go along. That's why every member feedback is important.

Just that this Trust system has been clearly abused!

trusted users? i don't think they are automatically placed on trusted just because they are inner circle.

just take a chill and think about the above and you will see that DT is needed.
I do agree some DT is needed, but some are clearly abusing it. Spamming trusted feedbacks too.

start up a business and every user can tag you = manipulation can happen, someone who doesn't like you can tag you 100 times
Doesn't spamming feedbacks counted in this? tagging 100x
same right?
Thats why trust system should be placed after seller has bought the items.

Why can't you see that the trust system has something wrong with it?

Please do not just take 1 side of it.

I don't see abuse, I see people wanting to protect the forum - Admins and theymos do not patrol and police scams that is down to DT, DT years ago saw account trading as an issue and tagged traders - the fact you ignored these clear red marks is why you got scammed bud.

so you agree DT is needed - you now know it needs to be self regulating and you know that a pure voting system can be manipulated by the nefarious user who has the most alts/ time to make the most alts.

tell me a better system than we have now - exactly how would you design your own trust system?

I already said, trust system is only for marketplace and should be placed after buyers have bought items from sellers with default escrow.
You get rid of most scams already.

Or keep the DT and remove the trust. the trust is ripped off.

the fact you ignored these clear red marks is why you got scammed bud.
The problem is that DT cannot be not trusted when it comes to transactions.
As it should have real customers feedback.

Or why not create like subdomain? where user set up own shop like amazon?
And then the trust will link to his or her main bitcointalk account, something like that.
Trust will show up after users have bought.

If u continue with this trust, i believe more will get scammed. I can't believe that VISIN managed to scam 2 before me with just 6 transactions.

I believe bitcoin.com has lots of subdomain, and has neater interface.
Although owned by wrong person!
As CZ said, always copy competitors.

man i'm confused by your wall of text, i'm not having a go as I want to address your issue as you feel slighted by other senior members pointing out you are wrong. I feel you as a newbie have no idea of Theymo's vision of decentralisation - no real knowledge of forum politics either.

Account selling isn't trusted here = you got ripped off buying an account.
you didn't use escrow = you got ripped off
you ignored a load of red taggs = you got ripped off.

the system isn't broken - your attitude towards it is. You cannot make a valid argument against the system as you do not know the intricacies of this place.

but let me pose this question to you - if you hadn't tried to buy an account you wouldn't of got SKAMED would you?

VINSIN already had a bright, deep red trust before you got scammed. So what exactly is the problem with the trust system? It warned you not to trust him, you did anyway, now you're bitching about it? Makes no sense. He's even admitted to ripping people off in the past.

As i said, i only don't like how the trust works!
You cannot make a valid argument against the system as you do not know the intricacies of this place.

How is this not valid? I proved so much of my point and all DT does is to gang up against me.
That's another problem.
I'm sure lots of anti DT gang does not like how the trust system work, thats why they want to overthrow the DT.
I am just giving feedback on why the trust system is a total mess, not the DT.
Because DT are the one giving trusted feedback, then we have to overthrow them right?


He's even admitted to ripping people off in the past.
I only saw he admitted to selling accounts.
This is why he get the sales! This guy knows marketing.
I always learn something from mistakes and criticism, yes, may be hard to swallow, thats the only way i can improve.

It's up to the admin whether this system is questionable or not. I will always say that this system will continue to scam more people.
You don't realized it.

All you want to hear is nice things in front of you, of how this system works well for you. That's just all bootlicking!
I don't trust bootlickers because most of them always have hidden agenda. Just like how most DT here.
Maybe that's why they like to gang up!

Be honest, do nice things really improve you?
Or criticism improve you?

This world, no one can be trusted! So why i should trust the DT?

stop posting 40 things I cant keep up - lets keep to these points

Account selling isn't trusted here = you got ripped off buying an account.
you didn't use escrow = you got ripped off
you ignored a load of red taggs = you got ripped off.

the system isn't broken - your attitude towards it is.

ok then means DT here admits that the trust system is corrupt!

I am a customer but my feedback showing as untrusted! Ok can!

It says trade with extreme caution.
And the opinion of these DT punks is irrelevant.What matters is the reality and reality is that majority of forum members instantly take you as scammer when seeing the default red trust

?? you are not trusted as you are a nobody in the grand scheme of things - if you have issues ask someone trusted on DT to tag, provide proof and it will be actioned if true.

if every newbie could tag the forum trust system would mean nothing - surely you understand this simple concept

I have provided proof that Lauda has been accused of extortion and it has been proofed he sent these emails.The purpose is irrelevant.
I have proofed that a legandary has recently sold high ranked account and still no DT member expect lauda has tagged him.

You don't do your duty as DT member.You are clearly not able to hold that position

I don't see why you think that it's proper to wait for a victim to send a user negative trust.

Do we wait for thieves to steal before we convict them of their crimes, despite knowing their intent?

How about ponzi schemes? If we wait until they collapse to warn people that it's a scam then there will be literally no consequence to someone starting a ponzi.

highlighted 2 things

Accused - go read a dictionary
Emails - You are a lying cunt you ain't seen shit on email you twat

firstly, don't judge a book by its cover!
ponzi is already illegal from start. That one we know. And should be deleted.
simple.

as i said,
See, the problem is this, not all are scammers!
By creating this, u make the illusion that that guy instantly is a scammer without transacting with him?

If i have successful trade with escrow, and i posted here? a good feedback? what will you do?

I can't believe you are still defending the trust system?

The trust system is not based on whether you have made a transaction or not. Trusted feedback is based on your personal trust list. Anyone outside of your DefaultTrust depth settings have their feedback shown as untrusted.

Therefore it is not a matter of whether you are a customer or not.

If i am buying something from store, i can just see the store seller as scammer even if i have not purchased anything from him?
Where is the logic?

Thats why it's ripped off!
It's all about the inner circle gang up and bullies us!

Thats why VINSIN is able to scam so many people!
It's not about the same people anymore!

Suppose someone is selling a gambling script that they claim to guarantee winnings. This is a clear scam.

Suppose someone is selling a stolen item.

Suppose someone is opening an ICO with a fake team and whitepaper.

I'm still wondering why you blame the DefaultTrust negative feedback for VINSIN's scamming of you.

because he didn't do full DD and check the un trusted feedback as well - so its the forums fault - all this fucking fuss for $40!

People who fuck up on a regular basis usually find someone else to blame

You're either a complete idiot or an alt account, and I'm 90% sure it's the latter. *Edit: could also be both* In any case, the above quote is probably correct and that's the way it's supposed to be, since only 5% or so of newbies aren't bounty spammers.  If you're somehow not an alt account, you may not be familiar with why the merit system was created in the first place.  I'll leave it to you to search through Meta to find the answer to that--but since you can't write English properly, you probably can't read it well either and wouldn't be able to distinguish a good post from a shitpost.

I'm puzzled as to OP's gripe.  He claims to have gotten scammed by VINSIN, and even though VINSIN was extensively tagged by DT members, OP is blaming DT members....because VINSIN's other victims (not sure who they are) didn't tag him?  And thus the trust system is so broken that OP is joining the moron brigade in order to overthrow the default trust system?  Have I interpreted this correctly?

Makes zero sense.  

why this thread only DT members are replying? Where are the members and newbies?
another problem of this system.
To be clear, i'm not on either side, but since this system is corrupt, then i sided more with anti DT.

I'm still wondering why you blame the DefaultTrust negative feedback for VINSIN's scamming of you.
[/quote].

you all gang up against us.

There is no fair reviews at all!
DT defending their positions,
anti DT gang also defending their positions

you did not read previous post seriously!
As i said, how can i trust you guys, did you buy the item? simple answer.

If not, then there is no such business in the world that allow customers to anyhow give feedback without buying items!

It's the only way! I know it's not easy and takes time, but well, he can always ask for public donations and i will donate.
theymos can keep certain information.
I do hope he can consider.

Just explain why you think that users should lose money to scams and then provide feedback when they can be protected with proactive feedback.

omg, i said that the DT feedback can't be trusted. Default escrow should be in place to prevent scams.

I am not blaming the DT, i am not a fan of the trust system that's all.

Why can DT feedback not be trusted? If there are obvious signs of a scam, shouldn't that be publicized accordingly?

Moreover, there are escrows in place if people look for them. However, centralization of escrow services isn't exactly what you want.

It's not.

And it wouldn't help idiots like you who ignore warnings anyway. You could do it on your own by building your own trust list to include only users who post trust feedback based on their own trades. Right now you're doing pretty much the opposite - you're including users who share your dislike for some other users.

Hi!

Obviously you are confusing rating/reviews with the trust system.
DTs tag members based on many factors. Feedbacks left from "customers" is one of these factors.
DTs identify scammers and tag them as a preventive mesure.
Though, positive trust should be given to a member after he makes successful deals.

In fact, your first question prooves how active DT members are, thus you can be sure if you open an accusation thread, they will take the necessary acts.
Now, would you trust newbies that didn't make the effort even to reply here?!

how is account selling a scam? I read that it's legal.
This thread is about preventing more after me to always use escrow!

And not to read DT's trusted feedback, just like how they gang up on me.
How is that fair?

Ok, i will repeat and will repeat many times, there is no such thing in this world as customers giving feedback without buying items.
And continue doing this, more will get scammed.
It will always create the illusion that this person is unfairly treated by DT.

TRUST ME!
i got red trust because you all gang on me, just like how VINSIN got red trust when all DT gang on him!


same mate. how is this different?
Feedbacks left from "customers" is one of these factors. As far as i can see, there are no customers feedback till me.

+ some even don't want to give positive trust after successful deal.


thats the problem, i thought DT can be trusted? Forum this big requires a lot manpower, why binance have lots of employees?
Even Binance, i believe, hold billions of dollars. I salute CZ that he can handle this trust.

Where did you read that? The rules?

No one has stated that account selling is outright scamming. No one.

However, account trading is equivalent to trading reputation/trust. It is not trustworthy behavior. Recall that a high rank on the forum should be a privilege, not a right.

Users have been advocating for use of an escrow all the time. Ever see that Prevention is better than a cure (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=133931.0) thread? It's stickied.

I don't understand this statement. Can you reword it or clarify what you mean by this?

Proactive feedback prevents scams from taking place in the first place. Meaning: instead of a scammer being ousted after they take (arbitrary)  1 BTC, they can be ousted after they take 0 BTC.

Only if the feedback is untrue.

---

You can absolutely participate in signature campaigns. When you earn the privilege.

Generally, the post quality of users increases with time and experience. Spam is a cancer upon the forum.

I don't understand this statement. Can you reword it or clarify what you mean by this?

DT trusted feedback is like a gang! Once have 1 red, all red will come.

Proactive feedback prevents scams from taking place in the first place. Meaning: instead of a scammer being ousted after they take (arbitrary)  1 BTC, they can be ousted after they take 0 BTC.

Proactive feedback, you have not been in buyer shoes when buying accounts. Because all account sellers have red trust no matter what.

---

You can absolutely participate in signature campaigns. When you earn the privilege.

Generally, the post quality of users increases with time and experience. Spam is a cancer upon the forum.
[/quote]

how do you know i will spam?
i thought there is already a time limit in place?

And thats the problem, by the time i get to certain rank, bounty is already over!

Please quote properly. This is getting very difficult.

I meant the "And not to read DT's trusted feedback" part. It seems very abrupt.

Okay. But I haven't been saying anything about account sellers, have I? At least in regards to my opinion about proactive feedback.

There are always going to be bounties, for one.

By spam, I don't mean posting numerous replies within a short interval. What I am referring to is the lack of substance in posts. For example, there are a ridiculous number of threads in the Bitcoin Discussion and Economics sections that have no substance whatsoever. The replies are even more useless, for example just rephrasing "buy high sell low, you can't really tell the price" in 200 characters to fit their campaign criteria.

Perhaps there are some account buyers that don't spam. Perhaps there are some that do contribute to the forum. Example: Avirunes (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=175302).

But for the majority of users - I'm willing to say over 90% - account trading only makes the forum suffer. Given a fixed time, the more accounts you have, the worse your post quality.

Why do you think that when account farmers are ousted, their accounts have horrendous post history?

There are at least 50 users in the ChipMixer campaign.

TBH, we don't know that you will spam... However, history has shown that the vast majority of users who buy accounts solely for participating in sig campaigns end up spamming/shitposting

The sequence of events goes something like this:
1. User buys an account to participate in sig campaigns, because they want to make money from the forum
2. Given that making money is their top priority here, this means that they would be trying to maximise the number of posts they make
3. This inevitably leads to making shitposts to try and get their post count up to hit the maximum (or at least the campaign minimum) to get paid.

This has a negative effect on the forum as a whole, as instead of meaningful and insightful discussions... we get countless threads like "What do you think Bitcoin price will do?", "How did you find out about Cryptocurrency?", "Is now bear market?", "Is now bull market?", "What do you use Cryptocurrency for?", "What is best wallet?"... all filled with complete trash answers just echoing what the 20 posts before them say, simply so people can make money. :-\

Because of this, some DT members tag bought/sold accounts... as they consider that activity as untrustworthy. Reputation and Trust are not things that should be bought, they should be earned.

Likewise, participating in campaigns on this forum is a privilege to be earned, not a right. Contrary to popular opinion, just because you have an email address and can create an account here does not automatically grant you the right to come here, join a campaign and start earning money.

You made the fatal mistake of believing that the forum owes you something... when you have contributed nothing. You also don't seem to grasp the fact that this place isn't really a democracy. It is a "private" system that is owned by Theymos. Theymos, as the owner, has created a set of rules. The fact that you don't like these rules is your problem, it is not a fault of the system. There is nothing forcing you to be here. There is also nothing stopping you from setting up your own forum with the systems/rules that you want. However, if you do want to stay, then the onus is on you to accept these rules and work within them.

You are also free to petition Theymos to change the rules, but he is under no obligation to make any changes, simply because you don't like the way things work here.


Yeah, because there will be no more bounties... ever... oh wait, sorry... that is my fantasy world where the entire Altcoin section has been removed from this forum. ::)

the forum did not owe me anything, yes.

And i find it suspicious that the admin starts to delete some of my feedback.
http://prntscr.com/mf15mp
http://prntscr.com/mf15s8
http://prntscr.com/mf15wo

Its okay, i am just saying that lots of people will get scammed if you continue with this trust system.
You can continue to defend it. I am just trying to stop people like VINSIN from scamming more people.

No point, i wasted lots of my time giving feedback and this is what i get.
I will remove my "untrusted" feedback.

Your posts are getting deleted because you're breaking the rules. Tends to be a common trait among those who whine a lot about how unfair this forum is to them.

Why do you think that other people would do the same as you and ignore all of those (Default) Trust ratings that indicate that VINSIN is not to be trusted? ???

This is something that still confuses me... he had MULTIPLE red trust ratings... and you still went ahead and traded with them... WHY? ??? ??? ???


Why would you do that? That is probably the worst thing you could do. :-\

Why should i help? I already waste my time trying to prove a point, but you guys ignore me.

And even my feedback got deleted.

And my genuine feedback is placed on untrusted section.

If only we had some sort of system where users could leave ratings for other users based on their experiences in dealing with them, and then other forum members could read what they had written, and decide whether or not they wanted to trade with or trust them... Some sort of a "truster system", perhaps... Just thinking out loud.

Once you educate yourself on the systems of the forum, clarity will come forth to your mind.

see, i would prefer this kind of improvement feedback.
Many people, brainstorming on how to improve the system, is better.
Nothing wrong with that right?

I am not whining, but trust me even though i got -10, VINSIN will continue to scam more people!
I just want to prevent that from happening even further, but you DT gang up against me,
what can i do?

Actually I was being sarcastic. My apologies for being too subtle about it.


There's a few things you can do:

1. Start over with a brand new account.
2. Don't trade with somebody who has a deep red trust rating.
3. Use a bit more discretion if you do proceed in future trades, or better yet: don't trade at all, especially when it comes to accounts.

All i can say is he will continue to scam more people.
If you don't believe, come back again next month with a proof of his sally transactions.

I don't know how could you think "VINSIN" will continue his scam. But i can assure you here in the bitcointalk it will be so much tough for him mate.

Active DT team and trustworthy members are always here to keep our users safe from scammers. There's no way if you don't give him money for free.  

I don't really understand the logic behind selecting DT members or having an election in the first place. It's very easy you see, you spend some time on the forum, find a few members who you consider trustworthy or reliable or rational and then add them to your list? You can remove everyone else from the list that you don't trust. Instead of changing the system, change your trust settings babe.

I think it's an attempt by Theymos to make relevant and dynamic the Default Settings that newbies see.

My post is constantly getting deleted.

You do realise that not all DT members are moderators right? Moderators are directly appointed by Theymos. There is not way to be "voted" in as a moderator like their is with DT(2).

If your posts are being deleted by a moderator, then you are more than likely breaking one of the posting rules (multiple posts in a row/off topic/trolling etc). I've had plenty of my posts deleted over the years :P don't take it personally.

If you have posted in a self-moderated thread, the thread creator is free to delete posts as they see fit...

Your posts should be deleted because you are breaking forum rules. And you should know forum rules breaking post should not stay live. For reference see my quoted post below:

I don't find anything wrong with the elections logic of some users here, but it should be limited to DT and some other highly trusted users only to vote for a new member to be included in DT (understand my words clearly, I said new member and not newbie).

What I'm trying to say is there should be a list compiled by DT members themselves which must be made public, and it should be restricted to DT and highly trusted members only to make them only capable of voting for a new user they think can add more value to the forum. I mean anyone who is helping the forum in any way should be considered to take part in DT elections.

I disagree. Your proposal increases centralization and is based on subjective whims. These cannot be categorically identified and are they will only be propagated by those of current-DT status which is a feedback loop you don't want to see.

Don't you think you are putting too much weight on the word 'centralization' here? I'm talking about DT and highly trusted members' votes only. And if you think that they will do it based on their personal emotions over this, then I ask you that who will vote to whom and why? Do they personally know each other? Will they vote under the influence that the member belongs to their country, caste, creed, race or whatever? Well, if this is to happen and if that's what you call 'centralization' here, I can say that even DT members can't be trusted then because based on your words, some of them may also be corrupt. Am I correct?

Absolutely not.

Essentially, you want DT to select future DT members.

I don't like that idea.

Which is why I'm asking this again and again that can't even DT members be trusted for this? Nonetheless, nothing will happen based on what we say and what we think, it's the admins' decision we will be following. Still, I think there is nothing wrong in asking their opinion on whom to be added to the DT members list, may it be public or in an encrypted format and only be seen by the admins.

It's not a question of trust. It's a question of bias. Even if you completely trust me (for example) to vote/select users based on what I think is best for the forum, I am more likely to select users whose views more closely align with my own than those whose views significantly differ. Everyone holds biases, intentional or not. Multiply that up a couple of times, and you are left with DT becoming an echo chamber of self-reinforcing ideas. This is not an optimal solution.


These data are already available by looking at each DT1 user's personal trust list here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full;dt

This already happens most DT1 are the only ones that have cycled enough merits to vote (key votes) who stays in the trust system.

If you have 10 merit then you have some pseudo influence.

If you want an election process then the entire board needs to be able to vote (except proven/strongly suspected scammers)

DT is not really the issue. self awarded cycled merit is the problem that breaks the entire systems of control here. If merit was given based on strict criteria for valuable posts then that would help. However, I am still not sure wtf merit has to do with trust. This should be based on persons that have done 100x of trades and not scammed when they may have had prior opportunity to do so.

Here election is also major worse since a ballot can be tampered by our well known DT scammers. It's a waste of time as so many had multiple accounts for voting scammers.
Nothing works unless the admin is in real mood.

The pot is always blacker on the other side.

Wait...

So many pots... so many kettles... not nearly enough popcorn! :P

My thoughts exactly, and I miss the peace and quiet we've had for the past couple of weeks.  And I also think it's been pointed out that there already is a voting mechanism in place--the problem is that it doesn't please everyone.  But Theymos would be insane to try to make everybody happy when that can't be done.  He made the voting/DT as fair and as beneficial to the forum as he could, so the naysayers need to just suck it up or try to earn as many merits as they can. 

The constant bitching isn't doing much of anything except making scunter et al look like buffoons, but they don't see that.  If the community at large really felt strongly in their favor, they'd have no problem getting those merits, but that hasn't happened.  That should tell you something.