Bitcoin Forum

have you ever asked if some companies are seriously investing in Cryptos and still not talking about it?
They way crypto platform for Institutional client is been developed by the day is become an eye opener that there is serious interest
by companies but I guess anonymity is prefered

Huobi Launches a trading platform for institution https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/huobi-crypto-exchange-to-launch-institutional-trading-to-a-limited-group/ (https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/huobi-crypto-exchange-to-launch-institutional-trading-to-a-limited-group/)

So do you think companies like NASDAQ is good for the market https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-27/nasdaq-is-said-to-pursue-bitcoin-futures-despite-plunging-prices (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-27/nasdaq-is-said-to-pursue-bitcoin-futures-despite-plunging-prices)

SO do you think Bitcoin will be the future all sometimes fade away?

Huobi MENA: www.huobimena.com (http://www.huobimena.com)
telegram: https://t.me/HBMENA (https://t.me/HBMENA)

Due to bitcoin decentralized nature many cooperation and organizations are now optioning for bitcoin and other cryptocurrency because it give the total freedom in doing transaction and on a fast and secured network, compared to what we use to have where there is high level of third party involvement.

Of course. It's bad business to announce your investments while you're still accumulating. Check out this article from 2017:


Not only have they been mining for years without talking about it, but they're data mining their customers so they can gauge market sentiment. I'm sure there are other cases like this, like Wall Street firms spinning off startups and hedge funds to gain exposure.

Definitely.

Remember those days when Jamie Dimon keeps on FUDDING the community about bitcoin? where he has been? he's quietly accumulating and later it was reported that his company bought a lot of bitcoin.

It's no longer a secret.

If you happen to know Glenn Beck and Teeka Tiwari's video on youtube, you see them explained it well.

There are rumors of some russian politician saying that Putin is considering buying Bitcoin reserves. I believe this has been happening for years now. While they FUD the are buying OTC bigly. Approving Futures was a way to manipulate the price downwards and keep the price down. Once they've shrunk the OTC market, they will pump it to ATH, and keep repeating the cycle as they accumulate. They understand they cannot kill Bitcoin, only become bigger players.

sometimes the more quiet a certain institution is, the high likelihood that they are discreetly doing crypto activities.
and i strongly believe that there are a lot doing such activities across the globe.
theres no doubt that crypto has already conquered a large portion of the business

Institutional investments mean money. LOTS of money. The entire market cap of Bitcoin is like 8 billion less than what Bezos' Ex-wife just walked away with.... Institutional investing means blue-collar, or white collars out of the loop are much more likely to get in at the whim of their portfolio manager... Do you think this is bad? (not taking a stance, just starting a dialogue)

if indeed that happens, then we will still see bitcoin to a high price again, after in 2018 we see prices tend to be sluggish. therefore I only convinced myself to hold on to the assets that I had. so that you can still enjoy the results later, and the news at least provides its own encouragement. what is clear is that bitcoin cannot be killed

It is truth that institutional investors are investing in cryptocurrencies and there is no doubt bitcoin is the future of money.  I think blockchain technology is  going to be the determine Force in our financial institutions,  political institutions and industry.

I don't think it is something which can be done secretly

Obviously, I don't mean private investments here as everyone is free to do whatever he thinks is best for his money (and pay for it if things go wrong), up to a point where you can say one thing and do the opposite (Jamie Dimon style). But this is not the case with public institutions. So while this thought may in fact be quite encouraging, comforting or even soothing in the downtrend environment as of now, it still looks like it has more to do with wishful thinking rather than objective reality

I agree with you, BTC is become too big and important to simply ignore it, and since they did not to kill it in 10 years, now they use all possible methods to accumulate more. Due to the limited supply BTC is not something like fiat or gold, and in next 10+ years it will be almost 99% mined, so it is better to act now, and they all know that.

Putin is very smart person, and because of sanctions imposed by the West he maybe see BTC as one of the alternatives which can overcome sanctions. Besides that he also know that BTC has great potential as store of value, so why not invest some money in this asset and profit in future.

However small players do not know how to play this game and to use this low price to accumulate more. States and governments are much smarter in this regard, they have unlimited fiat and OTC - but that's always the case, big fish always eat small at the end.

Completely. I don't think any company who is profit oriented would want to miss on cryptocurrency. There are some big companies who have kept it secret but you will find out about them sooner or later, they cannot hide it. Releasing that information can bring a lot of attention and affect the market before they want it to be affected. Offcourse, everyone knows about blockchain implementation in businesses which is rarely talked about.

In most countries insitutions are public, and every money they use is published too every year.

Everything is publicly audited.

I doubt it is possible for institutions to secretly invest like this, at least in countries where the finances of said insitutions are public.

It's possible that some private companies are into Bitcoin around 2017 when the price skyrocketed and I'm assuming that companies that invested are also involved in tech industries that's why they are familiar with it and the associated risk. However, public institutions? could be, but its very hard to cover their track as it will be scrutinizes by everyone.

I'm not sure about the market leaders of the global economy, cryptocurrency has made a big change to the entire economy with more and more inflow of traditional fiat. Already there were more and more marketplace accepting cryptocurrencies as well as large scale firms investing big into cryptocurrency indirectly. Because direct investment will surely make a change and legal issues.

It was not a politician

It was some random Russian economist saying something to that tune and then many Western media outlets were quick to pick up the "news". I don't know about Putin considering buying a few bitcoins now and then, but if this "plan" was actually enacted even for 1/100th of the amount rumored, prices would have already skyrocketed. In fact, I'm quite surprised that many distinguished and high-merited posters here seem to actually believe in this rumor. By that I don't mean idle talks and empty theorizing, of course, but rather taking this nonsense seriously

They may be, knowing how crazy the last 2017 run was, they know that the money is still present in bitcoin but they just don't know when to invest, and so they might be starting to buy now. Who knows, no one will ever admit that they are invested or associated with bitcoin, and so there are never any reports of big institutions claiming that they hold and store bitcoins. Some might be gearing up already if bitcoin gets big, and for sure everyone wants to be the first in line and the one with the most influence, though we'll never know.

There are rumors spreading already that some of the big company are holding some Bitcoin on themselves and i believe it. While I think that they want to level the power of whales who can manipulate the price. I think it's their time accumulating more Bitcoin than usual since they saw what was happening in 2017.

I agree that there are large companies that hold large amounts of bitcon. I think that with future bitcoin investment, there will be greater profits if the price of bitcoin rises again

Why do you think the price is still holding into thousands of dollars?!

Ain't that already a good reason to say that somewhere out there large companies are still holding a large amount of it?
Though we know there are also individuals who are still in tight grip with their bitcoin, there are also some who are still accumulating up until now.
Just yesterday one story was told here about earning 1 bitcoin for months I think.

It is not fading away. You are only looking at the price. If you look at how it crawls into being known then you might see a different perspective. Try it.

I'm not sure. But, if we see it from its own technology, bitcoin has been talked about a lot by various companies and chances are they have collected bitcoin secretly to be used in the future when bitcoin really has been used freely throughout the world.

I never believed that the news was accurate, and I never even comment such news. It is unlikely that a government would announced such news and thus actually working against of their own interests to buy cheap. In fact crypto market is show no reaction on such news clearly showing what is thinking about the truthfulness of such news.

I do not know if Putin buying some BTC for himself, but it is not unrealistic that Russia is buying some coins same as some other countries. But if they doing that it is not something we can read in news, there are ways to do this in secret and without major market distortions.

Institutions have purchased bitcoin either for speculative gains or for protection against randomware attacks. Some data is simply too valuable to lose at any cost. Although now they should get monero as well just in case

I didn't say I believed anything, I said there were some rumors. In any case they would buy OTC so it wouldn't have a direct impact on the market anyway. Of course they wouldn't go balls deep OTC, just small accumulation over time, otherwise they would dry the OTC market. Intelligence agencies aren't stupid, Bitcoin is on their radar.

Uh, so what's the meaning then?

You basically say that there is some dude saying about Putin considering buying Bitcoin reserves and you believe that has been happening for years now. Now you say that you don't believe anything, okay then. So how am I to interpret your words really? You still believe or has already disbelieved that? And what did you believe precisely? It looks like you mean that Putin has been considering buying bitcoins, which is a strange thing to believe in (that was my point)

Anyway, how much can you buy OTC? Obviously, not much and that makes the whole business pretty much pointless. Apart from that, there would be a lot of noise if a lot of coins started moving around, which doesn't seem the case either

By "I believe this has been happening for years now" I meant institutions as a whole, not exactly the Putin case which is just the rumor I cited. I believe institutions and triple letter agencies own stacks of Bitcoin even if to experiment with it and know how utxo's work and whatnot. They need to own and move around Bitcoin and understand the wallets if they want to do chain analysis. Then there's the whole reserve asset part which I believe they are intelligent enough to know that it's worth holding some.

I don't know how liquid the OTC market is. There's art that sells for billions, so they could exchange some of that for BTC, there's many ways to go about it OTC and nothing is registered, the guys at the top of the pyramid don't play by the rules.

I would never be surprised if Institutions HODL big amount of Bitcoins. As a wise man once said, "If you can't ruin/break it, then control it". Well, If institutions will not at least manipulate and HODL Bitcoins it would cost them much as well.
We can see that Bitcoin is a threat to a lot of business industries worldwide and every institution are alarmed about this.  I think they are probably HODLS a big amount and bitcoin to control it at least.

that quote is the same as  " if you cant beat them  , joined them "  . we all know that there are some institutions who hate bitcoin too much  .  since they they know that they cannot win thier battle against us because bitcoin lovers are more compared to haters  . they then decided to buy and join the party .


how ?  i mean i dont think so  .  if they wont buy bitcoin , the value can drop more . that simply means that can afford them easily .


this is not true but this is most of the people think including those institutions  .

with its decentralization, where demand and supply have the most influence on price movements, it is very possible for large companies to take a role by holding large amounts of bitcoin, and I agree with your thoughts, it is done so that it can control the movement of bitcoin. so as not to be toyed with by other people

I'm not sure if that would count as "use"

For example, if you are a nation state and have a few frenemies out there, you would be interested in obtaining their weapons to study them and develop defenses against them. On the other hand, if you are of those frenemies, you would do anything to prevent that from happening, and consider it as a bad thing overall if that actually happens. Personally, I have no doubt that the alphabet agencies you refer to have enough bitcoins, but we'd be better off if they didn't. Obviously, that has nothing to do with businesses investing in Bitcoin and Putin allegedly thinking about buying a stash of bitcoins


Blockchain "rules" are not the ones they can easily break

some companies still store their assets in bitcoin they still have the belief that this bitcoin can be very expensive and can be very rare because the total supply of bitcoin is very limited will make the price of bitcoin can be very expensive someday.

To me, that makes no sense

If you disagree and you think it does make sense, then you are welcome to explain how holding a big stash of bitcoins can help you control it. Further, you likely also need to explain how Bitcoin is "a threat to a lot of business industries worldwide". It is only a payment tool as well as a competitor to fiat, and while it may in fact pose a threat to a government monopoly on money printing, I don't really see how it can be a threat to real businesses apart from the banking industry. And even in the case of banks, things are not all black and white here

it's true that the problem with the existence of bitcoin is that we can make investments that offer benefits. therefore most banks and large investment companies are less fond of bitcoin

It is obvious that they do, even the Winklevos twins do also hold a lot of Bitcoin because they know that it will go up drastically someday.

Well, a way to inflict some control on Bitcoin is by holding massive amounts, so when a fork happens, you can dump into whatever end of the split you aren't supporting, forcing miners to point their hashrate to whatever you are supporting and scaring them away from whatever you are dumping upon. So whales play a role in these fork-war situations. And Bitcoin is like land, it's limited in amount, there's only 21 million spots you can claim, no more, so if they want to outmatch the current whales, they need to hold more than them, and they can only do that by buying thus raising the price, and also hoping that whales capitulate when they manipulate the price down with Futures and other fiat derivatives.

I think that investment by institutions is only temporary, even if they cooperate with certain exchanges, the deposit they make is not based on bitcoin but a stable coin or other. I think they are not sure enough to hold bitcoin for a long time because their investment money must go. It is rational thinking that bitcoin holders are people who do not work in institutions.

I like your theme. Because I always believe that the crypto market is always controlled by some organizations and they have set up all plans. they just go that way and they will be rich forever.
Operators are very powerful people in the crypto market and they make money from mistakes in our transactions.
they will soon pump the prices of altcoins to let us buy more. so you should not worry too much about the future of crypto, it will last forever.

Absolutely, even though this year seems to be a very harsh market for the crypto space this is also the year that so many people and institutions have accumulated bitcoins. the reason why we don't see it affect the price is because most of these people buy from OTCs.

Well, now you add a new variable to the equation, i.e. a fork

Okay, you create a fork and dump whatever coins you are not quite happy with. And how's that different from just dumping your huge stash of coins making miners switch to mining something else, i.e. some other coin? Yes, that would likely crash the price depending on how many coins you actually have and probably even destroy it in the end if your stash is big enough

But does it make any sense if you have to buy up all these coins in the first place? Killing that coin would mean losing your investment, so you'd be basically shooting yourself in the foot. In simple terms, it doesn't look like control at all

Theres a greater possibility that even small companies buy bitcoin secretly. Its a part of the company's investment fund though. Im aware that rich people definitely those people who owns company knows about cryptocurrency and im sure they are investing on it secretly.

theres a possibility that many institutions out there have been long holding bitcoin and just waiting for that very moment when bitcoin will rise high enough to buy everyone a lambo. We cannot deny the fact that theres a large institutions holding a massive amounts of bitcoun in their crypto wallet.

I am very much agreed on your answered dudes. There are many of the others trying to overcome or replace the value and volume of Bitcoin but still since bitcoin has been run for 1 decade it is still among the top no. 1 in this business industry. Even though Bitcoin has also been down for almost 1 year but still a lot of us here believed it will bounce again at the right time.

I think that it may very much be the case. There's a reason why many have hired crypto consultants. Even JP Morgan has been caught trading while its CEO waswas bashing Bitcoin in the media. If the rumors from Russia are true it would be completely normal for them to respond to the rumors like they did. THey wouldn't want to pump the prices up now when they're still considering it so the best answer is to deny everything.

This is not a rumor, there were already some kind of official statements about it. I think if you google it, you can find it. Recently, more and more companies are revealing their plans for Bitcoin.

I am thinking about charity institutions that are accepting and receiving donations from different individuals and even companies. what if there are some individuals who actually donated cryptocurrencies, particularly bitcoin to them which i believed there are. If the management are knowledgeable enough in cryptocurrency and in how to benefit best at it, I believe they will hodl. 

Fidelity is reputable investment firm and from the news, Fidelity will involve in cryptocurrency bussiness and open custody. It getting more better for crypto community because more finance institution involve in cryptocurrency market and it will rising investor confident

Not at all but institutions like the exchanges are surely holding Bitcoin as Bitcoin will be the main foundation of their business to survived in fact most huge dump were made by the exchanges before after Bitcoin price surged. Also i believed the bank institutions of JP Morgan are also holding it as they fully support crypto currency now.

Regular commercial enterprises do not need to hide their transactions. After all, they need to conduct business openly, regularly reading about their activities to the tax authorities and auditing. Therefore, anonymity in this regard, they do not need. High price volatility of cryptocurrency is a very serious obstacle for its use by business structures, so they are unlikely to be interested in accumulating Bitcoin and other decentralized cryptocurrency.
This can be done by government agencies that need to circumvent international sanctions, such as Russia, Venezuela, Iran and others. They can secretly buy themselves Bitcoin for these purposes.

and now fidelity on final testing, i think this is be good news for cryptocurrency investors and community.maybe people dont care anymore with BAKKT if fidelity already launched their trading.but personally i hope BAKKT and fidelity could launched in same time.so it could very very good knows for us.

but with bearish prices like today, investors can fade fidelity. therefore it requires a fresh boost of positive news about cryptocurrency. and bakkt gives hope for many investors to enter the market

it could be, they with large funds buy bitcoin and save it for the long term, for the purpose of mutual profit in an institution.

More and more institutions will start doing this and that reduces the truly available supply in the market. I also think that many governments will hold some bitcoin as part of their national reserves.

It might be bullish for the price, but it's fundamentally bad. We see the downfalls of third party custody all the time as exchanges get hacked and customers get screwed out of their coins. Years ago it was Mt Gox and Cryptsy, yesterday it was Cryptopia and Quadriga CX. On a long enough timeline, every exchange gets hacked or embezzled from.

As companies like Fidelity enter the fray, they too will eventually get hacked and screw over their customers. It might add a whole new scale to these types of losses too. It just goes against the whole idea of Bitcoin (being your own bank).

I think they sold it first :)

maybe, because we don't know for sure whether an institution has bitcoin on their online wallet? it cannot be traced with certainty.
especially for countries that have not made regulations and oversight of the ownership and use of bitcoin in their countries.

I am sure that there are financial institutions and goverments that secretly hold bitcoins. They are now aware to its value so they will not waste that opportunity to make more profit. There are many rumors all over the internet that powerful countries like China, Russia and U.S.A are holding bitcoins.

I'm pretty certain that when Fidelity gets hacked, the coins will be deemed near worthless in an instant. It's a whole new level of hacks, and one that's not nearly as similar to what happens when a crypto exchange gets hacked. Every entity associated with these coins, doesn't matter how, will be blacklisted and prosecuted. In other words, more coins off the market.

It may look like that for people here, but average joes and large scale investors don't care about decentralization and being their own bank. They just want the exposure that Bitcoin offers. On top of that, they are way better off having a legacy entity function as custodian. If you don't know how to securely store your coins, don't, and for that reason people will always use these services.

They secretly hold some bitcoins because they see great potential on this technology and I think they know the future of bitcoin. But some institution are proudly holding bitcoin so they can encourage more investors to buy bitcoin also, this is good for a small investors as the price will pump.

Could you explain how they will be "deemed near worthless in an instant"?

The thieves could and most certainly would use mixing services, so if these coins will be deemed worthless, it will be similar to an epidemic (like it happens in zombie movies) with the whole Bitcoin blockchain instantly rendered useless and worthless. In practice, though, it would likely mean backrolling it. That would obviously undermine the value of Bitcoin on its own, and that's why we need to make some transactions reversible (at least for some time until confirmed by the payee) as then we wouldn't need to roll back the whole blockchain

It's not as easy as it was years ago to mix coins and get away with it. I'm pretty certain that there will be enough regulatory pressure behind it to have every entity (e.g. exchanges, payment gateways, wallets, etc) accepting these coins be held responsible one way or another, unless they immediately freeze and report the coins and the accounts connected to them.

Mixing looks like a very interesting option in this case, but what mixer will openly accept these coins knowing that they are being given out to people like you and me? It would certainly be reason enough for people to stop using mixers, and all sorts of agencies to dig in a little deeper. It could very well be one of the reasons Bitmixer ended up throwing in the towel.

With less and less places to spend/utilize these coins, there really isn't all that much value left.

So some coins are kinda born more equal (unequal) than others? I guess this is not what the main idea of cryptocurrency is about, in this case, about the fungibility of all coins (i.e. any coin being equal to and indistinguishable from any other such coin). Basically, what you say amounts to turning Bitcoin into yet another fiat, a heavily regulated one, where certain monies (e.g. banknotes with a certain series) can be declared illegal and susceptible to confiscation by financial authorities (probably on completely arbitrary grounds)

And yes, I remember that story behind Bitmixer shutting down its operation (not a good one)

Yes, there's a bunch of institutions out there who secretly held Bitcoin, even the CEO of the Twitter social media's admit that Bitcoin must be the currency of the internet. Before he said that words my guess is, he has already held Bitcoin. Even government institutions for sure they have also held Bitcoin but since they have worked on government side they are not showing this to the public.

Hiding identity now is reliable for those people who want to remain of being anonymous of Bitcoin holders, so it is possible the will happen.

Naturally, all large companies have their reserves in cryptocurrency, because they understand that cryptocurrency is the future and you need to start working with them now.

Even if some companies invest in bitcoin there is no way you would know unless they reveal about it. We all know that JP Morgan is negative about bitcoin in the media but they investor company has invested in bitcoin before the rally. So it is difficult to know unless there is information like that coming out. There might be investor funds pouring into bitcoin before the rally and it might be the reason it touched 20k.

Its possible since they have the money to invest on this market and they cannot afford to be left out so they will invest just in case this market pumps higher. Big institutions have their own research and development department so for sure they are working well on this one. 

Exactly, they prohibit the use of cryptocurrency in my country, but actually they hold a large amount of Bitcoin, because they know that Crypto is a valuable asset that must be had in this century.

Right of course, some large institutions are really holding and buying bitcoin even with this current market status. And with this one can be rest assured that bitcoin is absolutely going places soon.

I would not be surprised if an institution or governmental body comes out and declare its possession of Bitcoin. All these institutions and governmental bodies are aware of the profit Bitcoin investment  can yield and due to the anonymous nature of the crypto space, anyone can buy and hodl BTC without being noticed their true identity.

well i do believe there is institutions that secretly hold bitcoin, i do think nasdaq is a great company and they are able to provide a good market surveliance which will make market better and safer. For bitcoin future, no one knows for sure but i do think the technology behind bitcoin (blockchain) will be widely use someday.

Its good if investment institution take a part in cryptocurrency market. More finance company invest in crypto market its means more trust in market.

For exchange to provide such option it means there are possibilities that institutions are investing or may invest in future. Every technologically based institution will naturally be attracted to bitcoin.

There are some investors out there probably getting bitcoin as we speak but they probably prefer to not bring attention to themselves and will only do it once it is clear the next bull market is already underway, I say this because if I were them I would not like my involvement in cryptocurrencies be known since that could alert some other big investors this is a good opportunity and that could make the demand to go up and raise the price I need to pay for each bitcoin.

Additionally: blockchain ICOs are sucking because they are basically like garage start-ups hahaha ;D. It's good for the talented, but it means many teams don't really have what it takes to scale the projects like they should be done. Institutional investment can help change this. The long-run money takes long run planning- and that takes a toll on the check book.

I would definitely think that there are institutions out there who
hold crypto. I would go so far as to say that there are institutions
who are publicly against crypto but secretly hold them.

The potential for big gains is irresistible for a very low value input
in todays market.

I believe though as the "stigma" attached to crypto by certain people
gets less we will see more and more people willing to freely invest
into the area, and that stigma is getting less and less as adoption rises.

May they are, it is quite possible. But more often than an institution would be individuals who have higher ranks within that institution could have keep bitcoin for themselves. On some post here in this site, if it was true some did really have even some problems that have mentally affected them causing so much depression due to getting hooked up so much about bitcoin and especially those times when they would almost seem to have been so attached with bitcoin investments. I for one have so much interest on it when I heard about it. I did not plan to get rich but the thing about trading coins makes me feel happy. Especially when I first entered cryptocurrency and experimented about it. It was fun and I wouldn't even wonder if others would have so much love on bitcoin.

certainly, there are many companies that hold gold, silver and assets, and bitcoin is digital gold, this is great for small investors, the more they hold more demand and shortage

right, big companies certainly hold a large amount too. when holding, or buying means it doesn't have a bad effect on the price of bitcoin, as long as they don't release it simultaneously, because that's not what we expect

It's somewhat useful to follow the main chain coin movements and the days most of it is being transferred. By far, most of the value transfers occur from Monday to Friday, which could and likely does indicate professional presence.

The thing here is that people think of institutions as being banks, large corporations, billion dollar hedge funds, pension funds, etc. Institutions can be smaller entities too, and even the crypto funds that got rekt last year are technically institutions.

Security nowadays is more of a thing than ever before, and we see how large entities owning a lot of coins on behalf of their users no longer store their coins in one or two addresses, but hundreds of different ones.

The more addresses you use, the more difficult it is to figure out who the coins belong to. People not that long ago were speculating about an 800k BTC whale, but it turned out to be Coinbase.

People didn't know it was Coinbase till Coinbase itself said so, which shows how important it is that you use many different addresses instead of just a few.

YES i believe because if ordinary people can able to hodl and believe in cryptocurrencies most especially in bitcoin, then why can't Institutions do as well when they have the money to buy and invest bigger volume of bitcoin? So therefore i believe that institutions are secretly HODLing bitcoin and other cryptos as well.

I believe it too that institutional investors are hodling bunch of Bitcoin and other crypto, this long bear market is the perfect season for them to stack as much as they want. They are typically not the kind of people looking for a quick buck since they have all the patient and time in the space, surely they won't miss this once in a lifetime opportunity too.

Bitcoin is most liquid coin in market and most tradeable in exchanger, i am sure insitution holding bitcoin a lot. In this bear market situation, i think they buying a lot bitcoin at cheap price and holding it

maybe there are some institutions that do that but I don't think there are many, because the fact is that currently there are so many people who reject bitcoin and behaving badly about bitcoin I think many institutions do the same thing.

I doubt it is "secretly". I am sure big companies definitely have a lot of bitcoins and even hire people to trade bitcoins for them as well and do big OTC moves so it wouldn't affect the price like it would on an exchange and all that but I doubt they hide it. I mean think about it how many of us really know which stocks which companies bought or sold in the past month ?

Wall street constantly buys and sells stocks and we do not follow them that carefully unless we are really into it and check their moves. Same applies to crypto, its not something they need to declare all the time and even if declared on some annual shareholder meeting or something the reach is small and minimum and unless shared with public its not something we really go and check ourselves. Hence I think institutions do hold bitcoins but not secretly.

Institutional investors will not look for the quick bucks but they will starts to control the market and it will neer be able to be investable for the normal people but for now they may not much interested on bitcoin but in future they will start to enter into market graudally which causes the prices to moon.

Any whale talking about it when accumulation is a dumb whale. Institutions are whales. they cant just go and buy bitcoin without move markets. They OTC buy. And they are super patient. They know they have whole year time left.

I think the same. I think institutions are buying bitcoin since the low price... and probably most of the trading happens Over The Counter, so that in this way the market price is not affected.

I totally agree with you! Institutional investors are so smart to handle their coins! They have a lot of money and they can control the market as they want because they have the big hand as they are whales. As you said, they stay patient until they make their best decision and sell or buy according to make a huge profit! So as the op said, I think these institutions are holding a lot of bitcoin and control it as they want.

I think this has become an open secret, but considering that they are people who are involved in government-owned institutions or people who have large companies that really keep their privacy confidential the purpose of which's that their actions aren't known by the public/government because they afraid of the regulations imposed by the government, so they are reluctant to talk about it.


Of course yes, because bitcoin's circulating right in a truly decentralized market, where users are still easily exposed to the FUD wave or other issues, so the development sometimes fades but also vice versa.

I haven't seen any whale broadcaster that he is holding a bitcoin except for those few prominent people that we knew already.

They are for sure holding bitcoin and we can't be sure on how much they've got during the accumulation period. It's for them to take the move and they are aware of the market trends of course including bitcoin.

Institutional money will flow to crypto market sooner or later but there are some unclear answers to questions. Maybe they are more clever to spread false news about bitcoin,cryptos.. If they prefer to buy cheap then there are more ways to accumulate bitcoins except markets. I sometimes listen to youtube podcasts that analyzes crypto market but they are just keep talking about past price movements which  don't have direct connection with today's prices imo.

About those youtube podcast which are totally trash or such a waste of time. So i don't consider to listed to those fellas talking blah blah blah.Institutional money would either go or not with crypto and who knows
on what are the things on their minds but one thing is rest assured, they would surely come in since they do know the opportunity on making money which they do know that they have the power and the financial capacity to take the advantage into the market. Holding Bitcoin? For sure they are.

I think yes, institutional companies are seriously adopting on new technologies and in which cryptocurrency is also related. Example of which is Bitcoin where most of the companies used as some kind of payment for their transactions.

They should be more aggressive like this because some countries are already investing in cryptomarket, and for sure they don't want to be left out. I believe also that there's a bigger institutions that are already with cryptomarket, maybe they are also the whales who controls the market before.

I think yes, because bitcoin can be a profitable asset maybe many institutions quietly buy a lot of bitcoin and maybe there are also institutions that intentionally make bad news so they can buy it at the bottom.

I do believe that more of it gonna flow soon. And what I also believe is few of them are already in the crypto now and just going with the flow. But those that are still waiting for the proper time to announce it as just giving that feeling on what they should do.

I don't prefer to listen to those youtube podcasts or videos.

Nice conspiracy theory there. Still how much of it is really true is speculation. However one thing is for sure that big industrialists are having to evade taxes and dont want to show their income completely on the paperwork and so they will move on to or have already been moving on the bitcoin. This concept is very bullish indeed.

Everyone may not be interested in bitcoin as well. Even if the members here are enthusiastic about it there world is a very large place than this forum is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about it and whether some specific institutions are stocking up money is possible.

After all we have some whales who are pumping and dumping and obviously these can be financial managers of such institutions. ;D

the use of Bitcoin for companies or institutions is very possible because the data credibility is highly guaranteed for large-scale international transactions that greatly facilitate the transfer of funds between institutions and companies throughout the world,
so it is very possible that many institutions hold Bitcoin for their trade balance transactions.

we could take example JP Morgan, they shouting bitcoin was fake but in the fact they bought it  alot.i am sure there are many institution doing the same thing with JP Morgan, they trying make fud to make market crashing.and then they come to market as saviour.

I don't think it is bullish at all

Or at least bullish in the long term (let's call it an organic bull). If what you say is true (which still remains an open question in itself), these industrialists are not going to use Bitcoin for anything real (unless you consider tax evasion a real thing, of course). Further, they are not going to hold Bitcoin as it destroys the whole idea of the purported purpose (i.e. tax evasion), which is to have "clean", tax-exempt cash on hand

It's possible, especially the price of the entire crypto is below the standard price, or it can be said to be very cheap,
of course that institions have prepared it by buying a lot and holding it now. they are preparing for a bull run

I am very sure that so many companies are holding Cryptocurrency ,they are buying and stocking up .
They do not even make noise about it.
Secondly,, NASDAQ coming into the Cryptocurrency market is a welcomed development ....as it would increase adoption rate significantly.
The growth of Cryptocurrency would always be exponential.

I am of this opinion as well.
I believe that they take advantage of the anonymity of the networks that exist in the blockchain industry. When the time that the bitcoin price will go in all-time high there will be many corporations that will start declaring that they are in favor of cryptocurrencies.

Buying in without any major market movement will have one believe they are not involved. However, these Institutions have their stakes in bitcoin already. No one will come out open and say they are in just to keep on the price below and accumulate more.

The big holders and the investor are still in this crypto market,and they continue their competition every day.in fact we operate bitcoin value therefore, Bitcoin value can return every time to fare.
So i think Any action that should be excited is not going to go,then it will not be a good side.Keep pace with the better for the crypto market,and keep we are like anything trade,invest,hold as you choice.

This would be true that everything would be done silently as even they know that it is the future and if one has to take benefit of it then they will need to hold it. Also they do not let know anyone about it and would be doing secretly and holding a huge qty of different coins I think so.

Due to ETF, many big institutions are silently holding for the long term because already many companies start holding the Bitcoin in the market. We can able to see them in blockchain but we don't know exactly who is holding because they will distribute the coins to the different address.

Do you mean government institutions?Sure,they often confiscate large amounts of bitcoins from some criminals and sell them using auctions.Do I think that they secretly buy large amounts of crypto?No way.
If the governments ever start buying btc,the price will skyrocket pretty fast.

The FBI is known to have been holding large amounts of confiscated coins and then auctioning them off (as you said). And some of their agents had even been caught while trying to steal a few coins now and then, and probably many more got away with that (so much for Bitcoin not having any real value, huh). But I agree, there is no motive for governments to buy bitcoins apart from small amounts for sting operations and that kind of thing (just like they are buying drugs, firearms, etc). Rumors that, say, Russia is going to buy 10B dollar worth of bitcoins next month (or whatever) are likely meant to boost prices and interest but nothing beyond that

Though I'm not sure if it helps

I think many people have already held bitcoin especially now the decline of bitcoin itself is also quite large so it's likely that many people have already held bitcoin to be able to get profits later

If it's like this, then what is the main reason for them doing that?
shouldn't it be if they really support crypto, of course they don't need to keep it a secret?

Op is talking about institutional investors and not we the hodl.  He is refer to big and international financial institutions like banks and big hedge fund companies. I strongly believe that big financial institutions are holding bitcoin but in secret.

I don't think most of the Bitcoin in circulation are owned by only individual as there are so many institution that own a huge number of Bitcoin and other crypto currency and they not to announce it to that public on how much worth of crypto currency they are holding.

The need for bitcoin as well as the growth of bitcoin is analyzed by a large set of institutions. When common man has understood about its need, these large scale firms were also much aware about it. Predicting the growth surely large scale firms have hidden investments on bitcoin which is true.

The truth remain that we have several whales  individuals and organisation  in the CRYPTO space that have invested  in BTC and are waiting for an increase in the adoption rate before they can use BTC as a currency and for transaction.

Yeah. I read an article on one website which stated that even though we might be in bear market, last year was one of the year which saw a very great adoption of the use of cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin. But the reason why we don't see it reflecting on exchanges is because they purchase from OTCs not on exchange sites.

I only think positively about the institution, if the institution is quietly the holder of a large number of Bitcoins, I think that is a good thing, because more and more people will buy Bitcoin, the faster the price of Bitcoin will rise again.

We came into strong anonymity and we can certainly hold a huge amount of BTC untraceable to the others. If they are holding of that huge amount  just be sure that they'll holding it for good and not for illegal activities. And I'm afraid also that they'll could be the target of hackers.

not for illegal activities will certainly be healthy growth for bitcoin. therefore even though there are institutions that hold a large number of btc, of course this is not a problem as long as it is used for positive activities, thus making the btc circulation healthy too, so that more and more governments will legalize it

It is very possible for an institution to hold a large amount of hold. because bitcoin is currently experiencing a deep decline I think many people take the opportunity to buy bitcoin

fo investment institution like JP Morgan and othere finance firm , i am sure most of them holding bitcoin now in their portofolio.this is best chance for them to earn money if they able to spread positive news in market now.

It is not just about Bitcoin ,Banks and big institution hold good amount of fund in stocks or crypto with them.they are big players in trading world,rest become profit generation tool.they dump and pump asset depend on their need.back in 2013 many institution were opposing crypto and calling it as Ponzi scheme but in back they were investing in it.

Millions of people are holding and they are going to hold for long time until price will go above their expectation, the same way there is high possibility that institutions must be holding bitcoin and they must be holding to see price rise higher, so it is hard to neglect that remarkable number of institutes are holding massive number of bitcoin.

The thing with investors is you'd only know they invested in something after they've already made an exit or it can no longer be hidden. Which I think is one more reason to not take their word on what the hottest investment is.

I wouldn't be surprised if some in the banking sector already have a stash of bitcoins. At at least 10 years old bitcoin still haven't shown any sign of disappearing and that might raise confidence that it is an investment option to diversify into.

That's actually a very wise thought which definitely deserves a merit (or two)

Though I don't think there are a lot of public investments going into crypto right now (as that requires disclosure of such information) but we can be damn sure that at least some of the big guns of the financial world have already invested in Bitcoin privately. Personally, I don't expect die-hards like Warren Buffett to get interested in cryptocurrencies any time soon (if ever), but other folks less stubborn and more open-minded may have already gotten their feet wet at Bitcoin investments. Obviously, they are not going to tell the world about it

There's no doubt that there are bigtime holders of bitcoin. For sure some of them are huge companies, rich politicians and some of them might be rich people around the world. They might have bought their bitcoin since the time of bitcoin starting to grow. And moat likely their are holding their bitcoin as gold reserved. It's hard to prove that they're holders because of the anonymity of bitcoin.

This is a possibility but we can't prove this is happening.

There are a lot of institutions in this world and we don't know what kind of institution they have. It might be an institution built out of religion, out of their culture, their beliefs or anything like that but there can also be a possibility that there is an institution that is built based on the cryptocurrencies that we don't know and they are holding or trying to manipulate the price on the greater or bad of the market. We can't remove that idea that these institutions are planning a bad thing for our investments right?

I think that is a big possibility and if some institutions or companies secretly hodl some significant amount of bitcoin then I will call it "undeclared reserve" and they are likely reserving it for their future use. When bitcoin adoption go on full speed, bitcoin can also be use by some institutions or governments as a temporary reserve to beef up their funds for the future.

Agreed, more and more high profile firms as well as personalities have large HODL of bitcoin. People are much aware about the financial institutions trying to get the people's money through one way or another. This means one with large fiat funds hold large funds in bitcoin to profit on growth as well to manipulate the market.

If they are already rich and wealthy why would they waste their time waiting for a high volatile/unstable asset ?  Arent they contented on what they already have in their banks ?   But when it comes to institutions ,  not all institutions are bigtime  . for example public institutions mainly compose of poor individuals  . some of them are possibly investing in bitcoin and on other altcoins because they want their monies to grow  while working for a stable salary .

There is no doubt that some big and important institutions are holding Bitcoins and I'm sure there are also some prominent banks among them. They wouldn't like to admit that in public because that might be against their official policy or not according to their reputation but they are doing that. Thry havd alao seen their opportunity to make money with Bitcoin and to deal with cryptocurrencies, they just can't admit that in public.

Maybe, because they just happen to like crypto?

I mean they may like the technology itself and everything related. For example, many rich people continue working even if they no longer have to work at all. Indeed, it is not like being an employee or anything related to hired labor but crypto has even less to do with that than what we typically understand by work

It is not uncommon to hear thoughts like earning plenty of dough and then retiring early. But money is not about early retirement (though you can certainly choose that option once you are rich enough). Money is about being free to do what you like to do. In most cases that actually means doing something

https://a.radikal.ru/a09/1902/ec/00408479b758.jpg

And sometimes even more than you would typically do for a pay

Maybe . because there is no prohibition on who wants to hold cryptocurrency, it is very likely that there are also many companies in terms of investment because the value of the cryptocurrency market is currently also very large

It can be possible, since bitcoin is decentralized and users are anonymous we cannot tell whether a big corporation or companies are holding cryptocurrency. Some companies wanted to incorporate cryptocurrency in their business, however, it is a complicated step for companies to do so.

Bitcoin supply has increased slightly,what do you think now?It's bad or good.I think it's a good sign,in fact Bitcoin price has risen again and can be associated with $15,000.So you can now invest or hold in the right direction.maybe this is the reason for will make a good profitable. 

Assuming he genuinely mean what he say in interviews, Buffet's "Bitcoin is an asset that produces nothing" is probably how most of the older generation of investors see cryptocurrencies.  They'll obviously be more conservative with investments - Buffet regretted not investing in Amazon for example.

Though he's not entirely wrong that the value of bitcoins do somehow depend on how much others are willing to pay for it, I guess what he's missing is that it's intended to be more than a "stock".

Buffett invests mostly in real sector

Financial instruments where Bitcoin truly belongs to are of no interest to him unlike, for example, George Soros (who is a dyed in the wool speculator). And in this manner, he is technically right about Bitcoin producing nothing. He means that Bitcoin doesn't produce goods which can be consumed and that point can hardly be challenged

On the other hand, Bitcoin is a payment system (at least it is designed to be one) and as such it can be considered a service helping people move money to and fro. And in this sense, its value is as real as anything else out there (provided people actually use it, of course)

everything may happen with excessive desire and profit can be a bad initial intention by harming one of the parties

Yeah this was really what had happened when crypto become popular. Famous celebrities, politicians, private and public institutions are studying crypto though not all of them get in but most of them saw some potential  in the cryptocurrency industry most especially Bitcoin. Not only famous entities but also high profile criminals, terrorists and other lawless elements get involve into hoarding Bitcoins because they knew how safe it is to hide in secrecy from government authorities.

This maybe right because some of the owner of an institution does have multiple investment which means they could have invested on bitcoin. As we all.know that many are aiming to earn money in easy and seeing how.bitcoin market price.move in the last year let other people decide to invest in bitcoin. However, they were stuck now because of the current market trend which crypro currency is down.

I think you are referring to market manipulation. Well its known to everyone that the reason crypto market is something that traders generally stay away from the reason is that it is too volatile and that whales always dominate the market. Still there are people who are accredited investors and are not doing buys everyday like people normally think. There are buyers who buy only at a dip and then wait. People think its a bullrun but it is actually a bull trap. Another party who was bagholding is going to sell at this point.

These are all part and parcel of market and trading in a highly speculative unregulated asset. Nothing new.

Depends on regulations whether they can invest in bitcoins or not though if it has been agreed upon by the higher-ups, they can find some way to buy and hodl bitcoins. Banks would be able to do this, government would have a bit of a hard time to. I don't think either is likely to publicize it if they do since the taxpayers might worry about such investments.

It’s quite possible , there are lots of of them that kicked against the idea of Bitcoin and I believe that these ones might investing in it secretly.

By the way there is no way you can tell who is investing in crypto currency and who is not , unless they decide to be open about it. I know one of my friends that told me Bitcoin is scam and later I found out that he was even buying and storing bitcoins and ethereum. That’s why I don’t trust anyone, they can deceive you and do something else.

That's right, charity begins at home

You should also take into account that people may not be willing to tell the world (or just you specifically) about their investments and not only about the ones in cryptocurrencies (which is actually a good idea overall to keep your mouth shut about your wealth). So your friend might have had exactly that in mind (read, he was not deliberately trying to confuse you). In this way, you may have to act more subtle (or be closer to your buddies) if you want to find out their real attitude toward crypto

https://s013.radikal.ru/i325/1701/ff/38eac02c8969.jpg

As they say, silence is the sound of money talking (and money making, for the record)

it was no longer in thought, it had become a reality for a long time. Large and small financial enterprises are still holding quite a lot of BTC and different coins. They believe that the value of crypto will be better in the near future.
Some black power organizations are holding a lot of BTC and it is controlling the crypto market.

NASDAQ companies are really good for the crypto market. Our market is really in need of real businesses and creating real products to connect with Blockchain and create a great era in the future.
Besides, when they enter the crypto market, the market will be diluted and have certain changes. Whales will lose quite a bit of power because businesses' capital is quite high.
The value of altcoins also grew strongly because of the growth of market capitalization and daily trading volume.

The higher-ups are literally the people controlling the lower strata. Its not them who need the regulation. Rather they impose regulation on the lower strata. So they are very much exempted from the same. You can be sure that they will have their share of crypto by the time it becomes more mainstream.

They are least bothered about taxpayers money. If they know that bitcoin is going to be a future in the economy they will stock it up and manipulate the market to drop the price and thus buy more at low price. People need to realize this soon before they run out of ammo to buy.

we can track how much whales are buying bitcoins and holding in their cold storage wallets https://twitter.com/whale_alert

I don't think so that big companies are secretly investing in bitcoins, may be some big individuals are doing it.
Due to it's instability bitcoin is considered as risky investment, and that's why companies/institutions don't hold it
Global adoption of bitcoin is needed if we want big companies to hold or use it.

Yes of course We can't really tell whether they are investing to Cryptocurrency but still we can't know who is investing to some Currency. That's why there's a possibility that they also invested in some currencies and really have a great deal of making more profit in their invested currencies just like a normal person like us.

Yes. Its not a secret that they are even manipulating the market right now. Who else have the money to buy a lot of BTC and dump after it reaches its peak?

JPMorgan and the blackbox are just two of the finance institution that had been discussing cryptocurrency on the news, its not just them that is into it but those forex brokers are trading BTC.

Of course there are many companies involved in the market, in fact, many have entered the world of ICOs, I do not blame them, due to the advancement of technology, they do not want to be left behind, many times, money is needed to make improvements and new projects, the bank may offer a credit system but with high interest, it may be cheaper to do a project that guarantees the goals in a quick period of time to obtain the funds.

That's a big names that can attract more businesses to play inside this market, after seeing opportunities, who knows who's or what company or institutions that are working well dealing with cryptocurrency, we just need to trace and see how things will works for us, it can't be a secret for
a long time, it will be revealed to promote more and to attract new players.

Cryptocurrency is becoming more popular that even famous people are investing in cryptocurrenc, that is why i think there are a lot of businesses have started to investing in cryptocurrency because they can earn more money here without paying any tax.

n the crypto business one of the most reliable techniques is HODL because it proves to be profitable as long as it has very large capital. Without that the level of profit in bitcoin investments is very limited, but long-term HODL is very profitable.

Lol, before you go to the extent of discussing such a thing with your boss you have to be sure of the level of your relationship with them. If not,. It might be understood in the wrong way and might even lead you to problem. And I don’t think Bitcoin is something you should be open about in your work place.

If you’re making money from cryptocurrency, keep it to yourself and not go around telling everyone. I’ve seen people that got themselves into trouble by doing that.

for me now it's also very good to hold more bitcoin, because now the price of bitcoin is also still cheap, so you can also wait for a higher price increase than the current price increase, so you will also get a better profit.

becarefull if decided to buy bitcoin at this moment, we have to fully understand the market condition.is it correct time to buy bitcoin and other cryptocurrency or not.cause at this time market very dinamic and price could suddenly changes.

I think there is, considering some of the core influences that are indeed influential and investing in crypto might do that, because they also have a lot of experts in that field so maximizing action is necessary with little risk. This is only my personal opinion about holding cryptocurrency in secret and some individuals also often hold secrets.

Yes.  The BTC price has already suddenly changed, and it is currently down a bit more than 80% from its December 2017 peak, which means that it is a good time for buying BTC.

Of course, any prudent BTC buying strategy would include preparations to buy more, just in case the price goes down more.

In other words, you don't want to be sitting around fearing for sudden BTC "changes" down, when there has already been a sudden change of more than 81% down.

Reference to other cryptos is another story, they do not have the same fundamentals as bitcoin, so they should not be treated the same, and that is why the question of this thread is about whether institutions are secretly buying HODLing BTC... surely some of them are secretly buying and HODLing BTC, but the vast majority of them are likely very similarly skittish as the population as a whole with low rates of investment into BTC out of fear of the unknown and an unwillingness to educate themselves about it. Therefore, the more educated (smarter) money players are going to be buying and accumulating at these prices, and why should they tell anyone, unless they have to?

How would a person earn more money by just investing into crypto? They need to sell at one time and buy back if they wish.

If the government is not lenient enough they will get taxed on capital gains and there is nothing new in that. Not paying taxes for capital gains is punishable. Even though we think and talk about crypto making our transactions anonymous and untrackable the government are ready to tax us for gains and we have to pay them.

The thing is not same for institutions buying crypto. They literally control the government and they will want to remain rich even after the poor start accumulating bitcoin - by buying more themselves.

It is possible and also many people who are familiar with bitcoin so in my opinion it is indeed very likely that people also make large investments in cryptocurrency including also mostly in bitcoin

A lot of companies used to hodl bitcoin just in case they got hit by a ransomware virus. Their operations are mission critical and a hit could be the difference between winning or losing a multi-million dollar deal.

You may think they were secretly accumulating but you can't really deny the fact that everyone could buy and hodl Bitcoin on their own. Since we are in a long bearish market there is a possibility that most of the company owners are buying Bitcoin and altcoins. And there are some rumors too about of a politician who wants to accumulate cryptocurrency as much as he can.

This market already proves itself to be as one of the best investment opportunity so i also believe that the institutions are investing some money so they can earn and secure their future. Everyone can invest on cryptomarket, it will just depend on you if you believe on this or not.

morgan stainley report shows strong institutional investment for bitcoin. The report contains an overview of both how bitcoin has evolved, and how its  investment purpose has changed throughout its existence. And also, goerge soros and the rock feller family were beginning to take position in the emergent crypto asset class. But I think its bad, because they can manipulate the market by the money that they have, we have to be careful.

I think it is very possible to happen at this time where many companies or people with considerable wealth value are investing in cryptocurrency , moreover the popularity of bitcoin is quite large at the moment

maybe. and i think, some party that say bitcoin is scam or something bad maybe invest in here. who know? if it yes, they know if bitcoin have good future, for short or long time, they know if it valuable. and dont forget if individual can buy many bitcoin, many rich people do it because they know that is good for some time

much institution moaning about bitcoin fake or something else, actually they have secret purpose on it.take alot at jp morgan when they said bitcoin was fake, suddenly bitcoin price drop alot.and the fact they buy alot and sell it after price bounce.dont ever believe this kind of man or institution.

The name bitcoin is already quite a lot of people know and very many are talking about. It's no secret to me if someone invests in a large value on cryptocurrency. and that's the thing that really happens now to be able to play market prices

I think such companies would also have a steel strong security to keep aside such threats. Not sure what you are trying to mean by this statement but the majority of ransomware victims are those who are less technically inclined but are forced to use computers for daily activities.

"Best" would be a wrong term to use in a speculative market where majority of traders dont even know about fundamentals and how to analyse indicators. What we have here is mostly get-rich-quick wannabes who get fed on by whales when they start moving the market. But it is a "good" opportunity for those who are the observant and decisive ones.

even one of rich man in the world invest in cryptocurrency market.he was as seed investor in BAKKT trading platform.this will attrack more richest man and ofcourse market capitalization will rise alot.

Hey yes I’m sure each and every institution and institutional investor is secretly invested in bitcoins, while there’s no way to get official proof but I base it on the fact that all these people love quick returns. If you observe everytime a big institution or institutional investor comes and bashes bitcoins it’s prices falls and they buy it, then after a while it rises they sell it and make quick returns. The Starbucks agreement is the latest proof that bitcoins has institutions money riding on it.

https://cryptopotato.com/bakkt-bitcoin-futures-new-info-reveals-equity-for-starbucks-in-exchange-for-adoption/

I think more institution will invest i bitcoin
After Fidelity crypto custody  launch more institution will be interested in investing in bitcoin
Platform like Fidelity will allow institution to store bitcoin in safe and insured way
It will be not secretly. Institutions has to invest in transparent way
I have been reading interview with Fidelity CEO.He told many pension funds .hedge funds and even exchanges are interested in Fidelity service

I think so but I do believe that it is more individualized than not. Head of institutions can be secretly holding but it is a bit complicated when two people or a group of people would decide on holding bitcoin. Certain emotions and judgment can be different for each individual and hence it is more accurate to say they are holding individually.

Well i doubt it when you say each and every institution though because that would include banks, and we all know how bankers feel about the crypto market in general. Though there may be some big institutions who are quietly stocking up yes but i don't think it's a majority.

Why not it is possible if they make partnership and invest money by collecting together but it needs high level of trust as it is unable to access in more than one phone or PC, so in this case I think trust issue will come across otherwise it think it in this well developed age nobody needs to use it secretly but many are using openly.

therefore, with many who adopt bitcoin in silence it will make the price increase or decrease because it can be played on the crypto market

I wouldn't overestimate fundamentals and indicators

If I remember correctly, there was a research into such matters which revealed that if you just held shares of the top companies for a couple decades, you would outperform most investment funds out there. Indeed, things are different with crypto, but technically, if you had simply followed the trend all these years, both up and down, you would have earned quite handsome profits by now. But to follow the trend you don't need to know any fundamentals or learn a lot of technical indicators. In fact, the trend is easily seen with a naked eye without using any indicators at all

If you say private institutions then I will say yes, but am not sure of government institution and if any private institution hold Bitcoin they may decide not to make it public if at all they hold Bitcoin or how much crypto currency they are holding just like as individuals will not disclose his or her bank balance.

There must be one party who hodl bitcoin in large numbers to keep the bitcoin market cap from falling too deep. even though prices have fallen, at least the market cap can continue to be stable.

in this twitter account, we can see https://twitter.com/whale_alert?lang=en how much an financial institutions are holding every day buying thousands of bitcoins

I think during the fall their would be some institutional players who would be buying and keeping it for short or long term . Might be at times their would be scenarios where in order to buy in bulk market is being crashed so that players can buy at cheap rates .

Indeed, that's one of the strategy of whales who happen to play that way in order to have the opportunity of buying while coins has very small or dumped price. This usually happens during bearish season, and I never wonder why this really experienced fluctuating and unpredictable market. However keeping every coins for longer terms is having an assurance of gaining higher profits in the next price bulls. We can't expect it to be fast, but from time to time as days went over that will be fulfilled soon.

If course institutions and even top government officials are acquiring bitcoins, there are no restrictions against doing that, neither is there any compulsory law that it must be made public.
Most individuals choose to stay low-key and anonymous, I think there are many celebrities into this network, but because if fame, they stay under the radar.

Institutions have been buying up btc while they have been telling others to sell.  Its all part of their game to deceive people so they cal pull in maximum profits.  You can't believe what you hear on mainstream media, its almost always best to buy when they are telling you to sell.

I think when governments from various countries in the world can accept bitcoin and there is no limit to having or using bitcoin and bitcoin can be legalized its use will give effect to bitcoin price movements because it will be increasingly difficult to get bitcoin.

They most likely never did it in the past due to their criticism of Bitcoin. It is possible that they started accumulating recently. 

Crypto community also wants decentralization, censorship resistance and not just anonymity

Not only the institution, even organizations, private sectors and many more big industries heads do hold bitcoin. This is not even wrong to have when you and me have. I feel its really a good sign when such institutions has bitcoin with it by more investments. The market keeps growing and we need it.

They are neither to be overestimated or underestimated. They are indicators. They are not confirmatory signals.

One could point out bitcoin in this regard, outperforming all other coins in 2017. Fact is not everyone is decisive enough to sell at that point and cash out a profit and then wait for the market to drop. ;)

True, but catching the trend at the proper time is important which most people again, miss.

Trend can be understood from social media buzz as well. Indicators are not going to point out trends always. There may be transient pump and dump but not necessarily a trend to be set. How the market is going to move after a trend is again better explained by indicators and past price analysis.

Yes several institutions known as whale, who understand the BTC platform and  opportunity that exist, are confidently taking the  risk, while the bearish price trend last it has being observed that several individual have being HODL BTC  without selling it off and waiting for when Government globally will adopt BTC, then they can be sure BTC  will become a legal currency.

Yes, I think the government is a person who is always at the forefront of everything, so maybe the government itself has digital assets that it holds for the future, because Bitcoin has exceeded a very high price, so anyone wants history to repeat itself .

of course that happens to the country that has legalized it. by holding a lot of bitcoin, then one day they will become a prosperous country, if all countries have allowed bitcoin in their respective countries

it is very possible if there are institutions or companies that quietly invest on a large scale in the cryptocurrency market, transactions in the cryptocurrency
market itself are also quite large and it is not impossible that only individuals do it

As you said it is their own benefit when country accepts or adopts bitcoin because bitcoin gives good economical state to some institution and country. It makes the community stronger and gives monthly profit as well so yes there are some institutions who are using bitcoin as payment for salary and some are using it for money sending procedure.

Institutions are mainly compose of individual so its really the individuals that make or break the price of cryptos  .  if a number of people are formed or work together, thats what institutions are born therfor its also possible for institutions to hodl and invest on bitcoin and other cryptos  .


Governments are already rich so what is the point of investing on cryptos ?  And besides , they are always  busy  on their job  . they also hated crypto due to the dex feature of cryptos which they cant control  like what they did on fiats

People still make decisions based on these indicators (fundamentals included), so you can't possibly deny their impact. Actually, without them, it would be gambling. This is not to say that with them it is much different from gambling (for the masses) but you get the point (at least I hope so)


I'm not sure if Bitcoin was actually outperforming other coins (for instance, Bitcoin had been an underdog to Litecoin exactly in 2017), but if your point comes down to holding crypto, then I technically agree with you. Whether the crypto market is going to follow the stock market on a long enough timeframe, we have yet to see (I mean if simple holding is going to outperform trading for the majority of traders)

What the governments accept or dont is not important to the big institutions. There are players out there who are whales and they are willing to put their money in the line for making more money. If they wish to change the system the government sees something then they can influence the same on politicians and news media.

How far they can go if beyond our comprehension. They obviously see the importance of crypto and thus it is pretty bullish in the long run. However we are far from global acceptance but rather on a case-by-case basis it is happening.

It is a known fact that most companies are quietly  and secretly investing in Bitcoin and crypto as a whole,this could be for the sake of transaction convince but the big question is why publicly condemning  Bitcoin and investing in Bitcoin in secret. 

Yes. Some governments and banks are probably buying it for reserves.

they are not clearly support or save bitcoin and another cryptocurrency market.but they actively spread about bad news usually, in order to get bitcoin on low price.just for example now twitter ceo said that he buy bitcoin weekly with certain budget.although this is personal decision but i am sure his company will adopt blockchain technology too.

It's no secret that they do, many of them openly say they have a crypto arm

Every person, group, institution, state, who think that bitcoin will be valued in the future, can keep bitcoin secretly.. I think the important institutions and organizations keep bitcoin. example; I've seen a few last news. bitcoin was used to provide finance in some military operations.

Even though the last two years seems to have been a very bad season for the crypto market it has been announced on major platforms that this same last two years is where bitcoin has seen great adoption in terms of being used to make payments. These institutions also use bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies to make payment for the transactions they make. In view of this some firms have also accumulated bitcoins in order to hold and wait for a bull run.

I will invest all of my money in bitcoin because I think is the best solution how to get much profit right now, many time I check always got positive respond from investor about bitcoin and altcoin for the future.

Every person, company and government institution can buy and own bitcoin according to their wishes with the aim of making a profit. This is not a problem because the owner of the bitcoin is anonymous, it only consists of complicated code.
So, I think bitcoin is open to anyone and from anywhere, because its anonymity is beneficial for owners who don't want to be identified.

right, this is related to the potential of bitcoin which can kill inflation later, in the sense that investment in bitcoin will provide big profits, of course to strengthen the military requires large funds

  With a huge potential of bitcoin, many people will surely stabilize and secretly keep this asset in appropriable way. Because it was established worldwide and by the meantime bitcoin's value will bounce back to the moon and those who keep it patiently , will be paid with enormous profits.

Interestingly, my friends and I do not have Bitcoin myself. We have Altcoin and I think that in part we make a mistake, the wrong portfolio of crypto-currencies.

What made the spike of bitcoin now could be because of institution/s who are trying to buy and hold.

A big amount of 20,000 BTC which is less than $100 million is usually coming from them, they won't trade it for short term profit for sure, they know there's big things coming, they could have an insiders information that we don't know, so we need to make a decision on how to react this time also.

What happened just prove that bitcoin has full of potential and regardless how much FUD, still BTC were able to survive.

I don't think that you are making a mistake by having altcoin because altcoin can increase higher too like what we see with bitcoin. Just hold your altcoin for a while, and when the time comes, you will see that you can make a profit in bitcoin and in that time, it is better for you and your friend to sell at the highest price.

There's are many ways to purchase bitcoin when the volume is huge and such, instruction could gone by contracts which secured an amount with a fixed price and the liquidity might not be noticeable if you are dealing for instance a big exchange under table, I believe yes there were many ancient holders that by themselves turned into companies that deal with such demand secretly, on the paper bitcoin supply is not moving vigrously, but who knows if public exchanges are not involved

There is no prohibition or difficulty in having a bitcoin so it is true that if there is a speculation about anyone can just invest in cryptocurrency

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Everything is possible, you never know what institutions hide in their backyard.

I believe there must be lots of ways for institutions and companies to hide it: special purpose vehicles, subsidiaries, offshore accounts and companies, hiring agents, etc.

Even the Federal Reserve showed that it doesn't have to disclose how much gold it holds, by lumping it in with other miscellaneous assets at one point.

Maybe yes, maybe no, but i read some news that some authorities from Europe, arrest some group of people and take their bitcoins and now they hold it, but is not clear if they have access to it or they just hold the pc where bitcoin wallet is.

I don't particularly disagree with this point

As it may or may not be true. If anything, let's assume for a moment that it is and institutions as well as companies hide their investments in cryptocurrencies. But then we won't know that, right? Therefore, their well-concealed investments don't mean a thing to us as we would still be dreaming of the times when institutional money would come to market, even though it has likely already been there for quite some time (as per our assumption)

We can say that it might be already there but only a small portion for sure yet we know that true impact when institutional money is already
plunging into crypto market.We cant make any conclusions yet but we can already give out some presumptions but lets see how this adoption would
able to grow and would come to that point.

Most Institutions don't hold any crypto, the price of crypto are extremely volatile, imagine to be that broker that invested in December 2017 or January 2018 into bitcoins and altcoins. 60 to 90 % of those investments would have been lost if they kept them for one year.
But I believe that some Institutions are holding crypto, and some of them has been some of the biggest buyers in this bear market.

Most probably, some of the institutions store some. Actually, sometimes I deem most of the amount is in governments. Even, in 2017's increase was caused by them. Therefore, it is most likely that institutions store.

2017's bull run doesnt only caused by  government but mostly people who are just overhyped to see the price is clinging up and seeing bitcoin is already getting some buzz
on the net.
I'd rather believe that Institutions holding up bitcoin to those coins which are being siezed by illegal markets that upto now they are still holding or rather being already sold on time of bull run.

For sure Institutions  keep on holding the bitcoins and crypto at a cheap rate. They have the money to keep on accumulating bitcoin. When they have enough bitcoins, they spread positive news in the market and causes the bitcoin prices to rise. These are the Institutions who take most of the benefits when the price rises.

I'm not too sure if they reap quite a lot of benefits yet (let alone profits)

If anything, they should still be deep in red. In case they are in fact involved in cryptocurrency market operations (the euphemism for the buy low and sell high stratagem), they should have been buying all the way down. In other words, it is highly unlikely that they have bought all their bitcoins right at the bottom. So it is definitely not like they "keep on holding the bitcoins and crypto at a cheap rate" (if I got your point right), and if the price rises, it should only diminish their losses (at least until a fundamentally strong bull market sets in)

Each institution has its own financial audit, so they will not be able to hide the wealth they get from the audit, unless the director of the institution intends to corrupt, they have to work together to hide some of their finances, and save it in bitcoin, that's possible..

Off course many institution are holding bitcoin secretly.  They know well that the future its for blockchain and cryptocurrency and they are stocking it for when it will go mainstream

I guess there might be workarounds (loopholes or whatever)

But technically, you should not ask me or question my point as this is not what I came up with here. I know that the public institutions (e.g. pension funds and their likes) are allowed only to invest in certain assets, i.e. the classes of assets which are explicitly listed in their investment declaration (or what it is called). Indeed, private institutions are a completely different animal, but then we may never know what they are investing in unless they intentionally make it known to the wider public (read, they want us to believe in something)


This is the post (and the poster) which you should focus your attention on

I cannot disagree with one of your points deisik that we cannot really have confidence in knowing the degree to which certain institutions might already be investing in bitcoin, and even if there are various degrees of public disclosure requirements of companies, we still might not know.

I, personally, nonetheless would presume that the degree that institutions are acquiring and investing in bitcoin to b relatively low and small. I am basing my speculation on what I understand about institutions, whether publicly held or privately held and I would even consider governmental into the category of possible institutions that engage in varying practices regarding their public openness.

In other words, there are likely some institutions that are secretly acquiring and HODLing bitcoin, but their quantity of held bitcoin remains low and the number of them doing it remains very low too - otherwise we would witness even higher bitcoin prices than we see today.  But in the end, we are engaging in a decent amount of stabbing in the dark regarding our speculation, and seems to be the reason for this thread.

This is what I think myself actually

There is no reason for big financial institutions to invest in Bitcoin big time this time, either secretly or overtly. Bitcoin, for the time being, is mostly a speculative asset and will likely remain that way in the foreseeable future anyway (even though we all want it to become a store of value, so-called digital gold), therefore the only way big investors are going to make money with Bitcoin is via buying it low and selling it high. But who are they going to sell it to at, say, 1M dollars per coin (as such is going to be the price after the institutional money enters the market) if not too many people are going to buy bitcoins at 5k now?

I think that financial businesses around the world are thinking of participating in the crypto market. Here, they use very useful blockchain technology and spend very little transaction costs and time. That's what businesses around the world need.
I guess another 5 years, our crypto market will have a lot of real businesses involved and market capitalization will soon surpass $ 2000 billion.

I trust it too that institutions are holding crypto currency specially the bitcoin, to make good stack of coins now is perfect time for them as price is not so high, it will be much better for them if they have patience and don’t take sudden step or expect sudden pump of price, it is lifetime saving so I think there are so many institutes who are accepting and holding bitcoins.

I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying; however, the way that I frame the situation would seem to come out a bit different.

I don't really agree with assertions that attempt to minimize the importance of bitcoin by pigeon holing bitcoin into a "speculation" category because we are not talking about some shit coin or alt coin, which largely an overwhelming number of altcoins fall exactly into a speculation only category.

The reason that I assign little institutional attention or excitement about bitcoin is because of bitcoin's relative smallness rather than degree to which it is speculative.

In that regard, bitcoin remains only a blip on the radar of a lot of institutions, and even they cannot figure out reasonable institutional tools in order to really manage getting in or out of the asset, even if they were to want to hedge a small or even a mediocre percentage of their investment into bitcoin.  Those custodial tools are coming, but still seem to be relatively slow in the making and the building of confidence of the BIGGER potential players.

Also one of the major ASS propositions of bitcoin remains on the individual level to empower individuals in the retention and the movement of their value, and perhaps only a few BIGGER type institutions are recognizing some kind of concrete value in that kind of power and monetary sovereignty.. which is a BIGASS use case that is already here.. and not speculation. 

Banks, big institutions and governments neither need that level of autonomy over their value that can be gained through bitcoin because they already have such autonomy over the value through traditional institutions that they built around themselves.. those fucks....

Anyhow, the more and more that value increasingly gravitates towards bitcoin, then they are likely NOT going to have much if any choice to put at least some of their value into bitcoin, and later down the road, they will be incentivized to put more and more of their value into bitcoin because the longer bitcoin exists, the more and more value is going to gravitation into it causing a snowballing effect.

I don't think there is any need for any institution to make what ever they hold in crypto currency known to the public and they even hold they will not tell you bro.

no one can know what you are saying to know the price and value alone we cannot know for sure a lot of news is a lot of information and it all depends on our beliefs

insitution secretly holding bitcoin in their bag.especially for finance institution i am pretty sure they have much bitcoin as investment.much fund manager recognized bitcoin as digital gold.and its be obligation for us to have it.

I only have a hunch that some of them do, or they have plans or just monitoring the btc marketplace very closely. But we know that they are have interest in it because they would not waste their time just to give opinion about it over and over again. Just like JP Morgan that always say nasty things about it but eventually made their own coin and who knows if they also accumulated more than enough btc. But I am sure they do and they just doing it secretly.

There are many wallets with large volumes of Bitcoin, Ethereum and other altcoins. They must belong to someone, and judging by the large number of coins, these could be the wallets of companies and investment funds. Because many people realize that sooner or later Bitcoin will be recognized in many jurisdictions and after that it will more often be used to hold capital, which in turn will increase its price. Naturally, no one wants to miss the opportunity to make a profit.

Individuals are not the same as big institutions

The latter have to play by the rules set of their respective governments lest they should suffer unfavorable consequences. So it is not so much about institutions, big or otherwise, as about acceptance of crypto by governments. But if there is such acceptance and embrace, will we ever want these big fish sticking around? In fact, I don't think they actually need crypto as they are cool with fiat being backed up by the government. This is not the case with simple people, though, as they are to pay the price for the government shenanigans with fiat money

I am not sure if we are talking over each other or not.

I was attempting to make a description of the status quo in terms of the reasons why bitcoin advantages regular people rather than institutions, and then you seem to have been making a prescriptive statement out of the subject.

Bitcoin doesn't give any shits about who you are, and you can enter into bitcoin.  Similarly, "we" have no choice about who enters into bitcoin, so if BIG institutions want to come into bitcoin, then they can come into bitcoin.

I was just attempting to assert that many of them neither perceive a benefit to enter into bitcoin at this time, but with the passage of time, they are likely going to perceive various benefits to entering bitcoin and they will enter, whether "we" like, want, appreciate or disapprove their entrance into bitcoin or not.

I'm trying to draw a line between simple folks and financial institutions

To put it simple, individuals are mostly not restricted by the government in their "investment policies", so to speak. So even if the government (any government, for that matter) frowns upon Bitcoin's use and possession (up to a point of imposing an explicit ban on crypto), people may not give a fuck about what the government would think ("my give a damn's busted")

But this is certainly not the case with financial institutions even if they come to see a lot of benefits and potential in Bitcoin but their respective government is not so pro-Bitcoin as they might want it to be. Indeed, they could try to change such a rogue government, but this would be a different story

It still seems as if we are continuing to talk past each other a bit because even though I accept that there are both existential differences between governments/institutions and individuals, which causes their accountability to be different.  In that regard, individuals can do almost whatever they want without having to report to anyone or to get approval, and institutions have differing processes.. and yeah, there may be some tensions between governments/institutions and bitcoin, but I don't see how that really matters in terms of the points that I am making.

I don't disagree with your statement that institutions and governments might be hostile or competitive towards bitcoin and attempt to control bitcoin, but in the end,  honey badger will give few if any fucks about that.  They are going to be forced into that situation of first they fight you and later they join you.    

So maybe in the end, you (deisik) and I don't materially disagree, but we are still framing the various matters and adoption dynamics in different ways.  Even though I am agreeing with you to categorize and define institutions and governments in categories different from individuals, I am still suggesting that the very difference of what individuals are and how they interface with governments and institutions will cause them to advantage from bitcoin prior to governments and institutions, and even though there is different timelines in adoption, governments and institutions are going to be more or less forced to come into bitcoin too... but we all may be dead by then, anyhow, even though a progression in the adoption dynamic is going to continue and we are going to be able to witness such progression (the longer we live, the more progression and adoption into bitcoin we are likely to witness).

Anyhow, now I am feeling like I am just repeating myself in various ways.. so I am not sure what points differ between you and me, except maybe different ways of framing the issues and the dynamics and likelihood that we do not really disagree about a lot of the underlying dynamics, motivations or distinctions, but we have differing ways of expressing such..

Yes. There are instructions that are holding bitcoin , some are even trading bitcoin using a third party.
I got to know about this from a friend that works for one of such institutions..

Most institutions own substantial amounts of btc, It helps to diversify their portfolio. I don't think it is a big secret even if it is not widely talked about

I still think there is a fundamental difference in our views

And not on individuals (where we seem to agree), and not even so much on institutions (this is kinda a gray zone where the possible disagreement is vague and not defined) as on governments. My point is that major governments like the US, China, Russia will never accept crypto as a full-fledged currency (other than an economic weapon against each other and the rest of the world)

That would mean undercutting their fiat currencies by letting the competitor in. In simple terms, this is not going to happen as this has little if anything to do with the "honey badger" (and more with politics, so they can't be forced). Some governments may in fact embrace crypto in due course (and that's good) but they won't matter in the grand scheme of things. In these circumstances institutions won't have a say

I cannot disagree with any of that, and really if we are speculating about 1-5 years down the road, that is fairly immediate term, and we can only attempt to realistically predict for short periods at a time, because what large governments do next will in part depend upon what others are doing. 

Even large governments are not entities of themselves, and they are mandated by the will of the people.  Whether they are carrying out the will of the people on behalf of a vast majority or a smaller contingency, even the BIG governments are not going to have too many choices to go against the masses in the event that institutions adopt bitcoin and smaller governments and various rich individuals have built businesses around bitcoin. 

If we are talking about what governments are doing now in respect to bitcoin, we can attempt to measure it, and likely they are not doing very much because bitcoin remains too small, and that is back to my point.  On the other hand, even though I am proclaiming bitcoin to be so damned small that neither large governments nor large institutions are acting, they are composed of individuals and smaller entities that increasingly recognize bitcoin to be important.

It looks like there are no others

I mean significant and important others. It is the major world powers like the ones already mentioned that directly determine the world policies, either directly or indirectly via institutions like the IMF (in the latter case regarding financial matters). Also, I wouldn't overestimate that "mandate" that people gave to these governments. Obviously, they consist of people, and it is this small group of people who took control over the governments (let's cut the crap about democracy here). And if they keep their financial and monetary policies sane overall (read, they don't hyperinflate fiat), there is little to no threat to them from crypto


These people have everything they need in life, and above everything else they have power, virtually unlimited power. Why would they care about Bitcoin other than it potentially being pain in the ass? Bitcoin is to take power from them, so why should they really think in favor of it? But as you say yourself, it is too negligible yet to be that pain for real

Since Goldman Sachs buying Poloniex, i think big financial institution investing on bitcoin or others cryptocurrency but i think mostly bitcoin. CME bitcoin future introduce in late 2017 and thats mean when contract over, they should deliver the real bitcoin

Again, I am trying to avoid prescription, here.  In other words, I am trying to talk descriptive rather than prescriptive, and in that regard, I believe that bitcoin brings a dynamics that will contribute towards various kinds of accountability and momentum that is truly bottom up.

Of course, we are hardly likely to ever get rid of top down dynamics and top down attempts at manipulation and control.



I am referring to dynamics that apply across all societies, of course, some are more top down than others and some can really deviate from public mandates in the way they behave and treat people.



I am not talking about "crypto"  I am talking about bitcoin.  Fuck all the various pump and dump bullshit.

Anyhow, assuming that you were referring to bitcoin, and you just substituted the word "crypto," then I am still going to make the point that bitcoin is going to force accountability of governments, and of course, we likely do not disagree that more responsible monetary policies are going to compete better and perhaps even stave off some of what seems to be inevitable in the longer term, which is the gravitation of value into bitcoin.  Of course, this could take 100 years to really play out and maybe even 10-30 years to witness powerful changes in the gravitation of value towards bitcoin.

Even if many of us active in these forum threads could be dead or on our final legs before something like BTC world currency status becomes obvious, we are still likely to witness various kinds of little by little of signs moving in that direction... just as we already should notice today that there is little by little advancements in the adoption and the power of bitcoin, even if much less than 1% of the total world population has taken any kind of meaningful stake into bitcoin.


You are making my point for me.  They don't give any shits right now about bitcoin or even perceive much if any importance in bitcoin except that bitcoin may appear as a kind of blip on their radar.. and maybe emerging in various kinds of ways but hardly understood by the very powerful for its level of importance.



Yep.. a blip.. and some of them are learning more and more and seem to be understanding better and better, but we don't have any kind of monolith here, so these matters of evolution and incorporations and change of systems take time to evolve.

Bitcoin is a paradigm shifting asset, and less than 1% of the world seems to have a bit of an understanding of that..

That sounds pretty ambiguous


This is an obvious catch-22 problem

The top down is top down specifically because it succeeded at manipulation and mind control at some point in the past. And this will always be so. Well, at least as long as humans remain social beings and thus vulnerable as well as prone to manipulation. And no Bitcoin will be able to change that


I referred to crypto here more as a technology rather than a specific coin (but let it be Bitcoin, I don't mind)


Actually, I want to believe in that thing myself

That Bitcoin, or rather the decentralized technology on which it is based, could force accountability on governments but I seem to be more pessimistic about its prospects in this domain. Really, Bitcoin has been around for 10 years already and so what? It was mostly a speculative asset 5 years ago and things didn't change much since then. Somehow, you wouldn't really expect miracles on making governments more responsible from something which people only use to profiteer. Give these people something else more rewarding or enticing to play with and they will happily abandon Bitcoin in the blink of an eye


I think you are overestimating the potential benefits of Bitcoin and its advantages before fiat

Indeed, fiat can be a pretty dangerous thing if misused and abused. But there is nothing with Bitcoin which can't be done with fiat as well, but the opposite is not true. Economically, Bitcoin (and other cryptocurrencies, for the record) are inferior to fiat. At max, Bitcoin is an advanced version of gold but without some of its drawbacks but not all of its drawbacks. And these other drawbacks (the largest being its rigid supply which doesn't follow the demands of an economy) are what make Bitcoin ultimately inferior (though it is definitely good as a vehicle for speculation)


From an economic perspective, Bitcoin is totally subpar to fiat done right

The institutions respect the concept behind bitcoin and blockchain which is why they believed it will hinder their profit level with profession in the future. Do they secretly hodl bitcoin? Yes, they do and you can confirm that from the officials which are against bitcoin when they are in office and but later support it when they are out of office.

Yes I have heard about it that some owners of an institutes do have some investments in multiple coins, some of them are being invest for making profit, the place where I work so I have seen many people using bitcoin, I personally hold my money in form of bitcoin because I trust it the most, now a day market is little down so no better option than holding.

For me they are , I mean why wouldn't they be ? I am sure that they would use anything that they could to gain profit to earn more money .
Why wouldn't they invest on Bitcoin if they know that it would be successful because the government couldn't shut it down , So surely it would continue to grow as the time goes by.

Why does it matter if whatever I am suggesting about dynamics is ambiguous?  What I am suggesting is try to assess current circumstances, and wait and see how the situation evolves and affects a variety of institutions, and currently bitcoin is giving more power to the bottom rather than to the top.  

In essence, I am not really trying to predict anything, but just to describe what seems to be currently taking place and to suggest that based on current bitcoin dynamics, there is likely going to continue to be a gravitation of value into bitcoin which has a lot of other effects that are likely going to be societal wide.  No one is going to really know the details of how the future is going to evolve, but each person may well be able to contemplate various changing dynamics that are partly caused by changed tools and the power of such tools.. referring to bitcoin here.    Once you make various assessments, you assign probabilities to future events and attempt to live your life based on situations that seem more probable to come true.. and you are NOT locked into your initial assessment, because you tweak along the way and hope that you were kind of in the ballpark in your earlier assessments rather than in complete fantasy land..   The closer you are the more likely you will prosper, unless you just get lucky,. but I prefer to live a life of good odds and not too much drama rather than making bets on things that are not likely to happen.  To each their own.  We are not all the same in our views, willingness to take risk, financial means, talents and timeline considerations.


Of course, manipulation and attempts at manipulation are going to continue to take place, and those persons who are either of a better mindset or better able to utilize tools available to them are going to fare better under changing dynamics and ongoing various changing ways to attempt to manipulate and be manipulated.  

You seem to be going much beyond what I had been saying, and whether as an individual you are able to figure out ways to have some control over your environment depends on a variety of factors including tools that are available to you and your own resourcefulness to figure out ways to prosper in changing dynamics.  For example, if you do not have decent assessments about what is going on, then you are more likely to be manipulated in ways that you are not willing to accept.. some manipulation is inevitable.. .it is not like each of us come out of the womb with an ability to do whatever the fuck we want... there is a context in which each of us works, and some peeps are born into situations with more options than others, and some peeps are better able to manuever to either make their situation better or worse, with even some luck coming into play, too.


At least, we can avoid another layer of ambiguity, and stick to referring to bitcoin... at least for now.


On an individual level, each of us is going to come to varying conclusions about where we believe things are going and how to formulate our own strategies within what we perceive to be the circumstances, including our cashflow, other investments, risk tolerance, view of the asset timeline for investing and skills.  Not everyone is going to come to the same conclusions, which can provide opportunities for those who end up being more correct and also appropriately acting on their knowledge.


Why does it matter about my estimations?  I am providing an opinion, and others are able to figure out their own opinions.  Nothing wrong if you believe that I give too much weight to one factor or another or reach the wrong conclusions.  


Fiat is just one of the current dominant dynamics, and who cares if it is good or bad.. it is a tool and part of our current life situation, no?  

Based on current assessments and future projected value, I spend my fiat before spending my bitcoin, but I am not opposed to spending some bitcoin too, especially after my portfolio became profitable and I had largely reached my accumulation goals.   Furthermore, bitcoin remains volatile compared with bitcoin, and in that regard, no problem shaving off BTC profits along the way... In the real world, I do better if I can shave off value and even take advantage of what seems to be inevitable volatility... one of the things that seem most assured about bitcoin is that it is going to continue to be volatile, at least in the foreseeable coming years.  On a personal level, if I recognize something to be so damned certain, then I should be attempting to profit from that, to the extent that I am comfortably able take actions in that direction.


Doesn't matter.  You use whatever tools are available to you and to the extent you believe one tool is more valuable than the other, you spend the less valuable one first and save the more valuable one.. hoping that you are correct in your assessments about present and future value... and if you are not sure about your assessments of value, you hedge a bit to the level of your abilities and comfort.


Of course, a lot of people invest in gold, and they believe that there is some value in that based on historical circumstances and tangibility.  I don't assess much value in that, including my perception of either gold's future value propositions or unlikely Armageddon situations that might cause gold to become more valuable than gold.  Again, I don't liv my life based on events that have very low probabilities of happening.  If an event has less than 1% chance of happening, in my view, then I should be putting less than 1% of effort into preparing for that direction.

    I had considered investing in gold for years, and years, and years, and when bitcoin came into my radar in late 2013, I considered bitcoin as a very good substitute for my having had considered investing in gold.  Accordingly, bitcoin is way more portable, divisible, verifiable, and personally empowering in terms of ability to manage.  I see no reason to hedge with gold, unless a person were to just appreciate collecting things, and I would like to be more portable and flexible, personally speaking.


Maybe that your belief that bitcoin is "subpar to fiat" causes you to spout out various goofy ideas and thinking on the topic of bitcoin.  

Maybe you seem informed about bitcoin, but the fact that you believe it is "less than fiat" shows some kind of gap in your knowledge, especially you have been registered on this forum for several months longer than me.  

Seems that, after all of this back and forth, I am realizing from one stupid statement that you might not understand bitcoin in its current state including considerations about its future direction (which is based on probabilities and assessment of both current factors and future projections of scenarios that have varying levels of probability to take).  That's too bad that I am spending time attempting to discuss these matters with you, and you seem to not understand basic value proposition(s) of bitcoin.   :'( :'(

We cannot tell if they are doing this, because of Bitcoin's decentralized and anonymity features, but I guess they are doing this because of Bitcoin's big potential for profit, Bitcoin has been existing for ten years now and there's so many news about it on big media so I'm pretty sure that they are not late on news about Bitcoin.

Yep, some of them do hold Bitcoin, only those of them that really understand how it works and why they should invest in it. Who wouldn’t like to buy Bitcoin when they have money to invest in it? Just check out Bitcoin price in 2010, there have been a lot of changes. That same 2010, Laszlo Hanyecz bought a pizza for 10,000 BTC, if he knew it would get to this level, he would have preferred to just store and by now he’ would be one of the richest people that invested in bitcoin cause the price he would have made in 2017 would be surplus.

Uhhhm, we don’t even know that yet. But most of them would have interest in creating their own coins than to invest in other markets. But we never know, since there’s no way to tell those that are buying and selling Bitcoin, it’s possible that anyone can be investing their money in Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency and you will not even know about it.

even though they have large amounts of bitcoin but I believe that they only save it as an investment, not for the business trips they run.
the government must also make strict regulations for companies that hold bitcoin if the company is open to the assets they have in the government.

I believe, yes. Business minded people are into cryptocurrency because they know how bitcoin could be profitable. Companies would definitely invest on bitcoin but of course, they will keep silent and would never announce about it because it's a confidential thing.

Not many of these institutions will tell you they do, but deep inside of them , they believe in the system even against Government wish, but because they are regulated and every of their activities seen, they cannot publicly declare their support, so the best will be to seretely enjoy the benefit of what the cryptocurrency brings in future by secretly Holding it.

I think that is right. Any person or entity, may it be a corporation or businesses have equal chances and, if they have capacity, has an edge once Bitcoin booms. Also, I think despite many doubters and those who just can see the good in the market, many are still secretly doing some business and keep on investing in the market if they find how profitable it can be, especially on those days when the price point kept on climbing like what is happening recently. So, there is not doubt that there are some entities going for it.

I don't think it is a secret anymore, I mean we all know there are companies that hold bitcoin now, it depends on what you mean by institutions of course, if you mean really high level ones you can see their investments because most of them are public information, they do take your money after all so as an investor you have the right to know where your money is invested and you can see many of them have a small bitcoin desk as well, that is how they make their trades on bitcoin.

Even a smaller (much bigger than us of course) places like that winklevii twins have been a bitcoin lover as far as we know and had been hoarding their bitcoins for a long time and their company could be considered an "institution" as well. So, it is a public knowledge that these big places HODL bitcoin too.

Cool stories, bros.  Got any concrete examples of institutions (and not instructions) holding bitcoin? 

Big financial institutions have to report on their investments, and I don't think they would legally be able to keep it a secret if they were investing in bitcoin.  I don't think their investors would be very happy if they did in the event that bitcoin crashed and the institution lost a lot of money. 

There may be some hedge funds and smaller investment firms playing around with crypto, but my guess is that they're not holding a lot of it.  They would also be more likely to buy bitcoin derivatives (futures, options, etc.) if those even exist.  I still can't figure out if crypto derivatives have been created yet or where they're traded if they have.  There just isn't enough actual bitcoin in circulation for large firms to buy it in bulk, so they would have to trade "paper bitcoin" if they were to invest in it at all.

But no, I don't think any of this is done in secret.  I don't think it can be a secret.

They can keep it a secret in one of their offshore branches where they're not required to report on anything ;)

(Just like they do with the US dollar.)

The biggest purchases of bitcoins were made outside of cryptocurrency exchanges, a huge number of bitcoins are stored in cold wallets, apparently this is a long-term hold to which the largest players have preserved.

One way to find out is to check their financial statements, specially those companies in which their stocks are traded publicly.
Coz the regulators are very critical about their financial reports disclosure. Otherwise, ask the SEC to have a copy of their FS.
My thoughts, some are holding it but by a minimum amount of percentage to their assets, percentages that they can afford to loss.

They definitely do. They know all of the opportunities both offline and online. So it is expected for them to be secretly investing in bitcoin and holding them for long term because they know the profit margin from investing in bitcoin is high. They just keep it secretly because they don't want to let the people know that they are supporting bitcoin.

I think we would have already known this by now

As it would be public knowledge within minutes after they disclosed such information. It would make a sensation and I think many preying eyes are perusing these statements on a daily basis. However, I don't think we are actually going to see something like that in the foreseeable future, at least not until these institutions are officially allowed to buy Bitcoin or Bitcoin derivatives (whatever those might be) and they are not so far. Opening position in crypto without being allowed to and then declaring it would be a suicide act

i remember the news about some big companies that started to invest in bitcoin about 1 and a half years ago during that bull run. that time bitcoin was really very popular and so many people were interested in.

In many of the countries the tax laws regarding Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency is very vague. If any of these institutions go for crypto investments, then they will be required to put a lot of time and effort in studying the tax and audit formalities. This can discourage most of the companies. Exceptions may be found in countries with crypto-friendly governments, such as Japan and Germany.

This is correct. The OTC volumes that never got traded on listed exchanges are the reason why the market capitalization of coinmarketcap is considered faulty and not something to rely on when doing trades. The real market capital is more than that listed there. We all know that whales dont want to show their information while buying loads of coins so they prefer to do OTC deals with trusted dealers and these are mostly dont in darknets where you cant trace every other information unless you are tracking them on their devices.

These wallets also become the source of panic when coins move from them so its better to take all this information with a large amount of salt. ;)

Every time is good for crypto currency I know it is famous and people love to invest money in crypto currency, it is beneficial for everyone, I have seen so many companies who are using it and holding so better if we invest and gain profit as they are getting, recently come popular and famous institutes have shown interest to purchase some bitcoins.

Pension funds and regulated funds are not allowed to hold bitcoin or any cryotocurrency. They can only hold approved assets.

However hedge funds can do what they want, and I suspect as part of their hedging and diversification strategy they hold some bitcoin, especially as it is not correlated with other assets.

Maybe there are also big companies that are accumulating bitcoin, but it could be out of the books, or maybe the owner only is doing it.
This is an opportunity and this business minded people are successful because they know how to spot opportunity.

Because their purpose is to avoid auditing of tax obligations? I think that might happen right? each institution in each country has an obligation to report any income that goes to the financial audit agency so that they can request appropriate tax. and the institution can falsify it by saving their income in crypto?

It does not need to be on the books and moreover they would never be on the books because the owners will end up making a front page story "such and such is buying bitcoin!" title and that would make the market too much manipulated. These leaks happen at times and I am sure you would correlate them with news articles.

Thats how the rich remain rich and poor remain poor. They know how to make money and they will release bits of the bullish news when they need so as to control the market and make it dump again. Its all a part of their game but how far they can influence the market is still a big mystery. Although it can be safely accepted that the government is run by the big institutions and not by politicians which is why they will always be able to make money.

That's very true, institutions are secretly buying into bitcoin and holding them for a very long time. The reason why most of their huge purchases go unnoticed is because they don't buy on exchanges but purchase their bitcoins from over the counter platforms such as Coinbase. 

It is very possible for some institutions to be hodling bitcoins. I have read in some posts where it was even alleged that North Korea and Russia may even be hodling some bitcoins in order to evade possible US sanctions or none access to the US dollars.

It's a state strategy which in my opinion cannot be discussed here because there are many state secrets that must be kept to avoid the war that will occur.

JP Morgan hodls a few coins. ironically they also "manipulated" with statements. But i mean its an unregulated market - no rules, no referee. perfect for banks  ::)

You read that in posts? You mean posts by other members here? Don't believe everything you see on the internet because false news is rampant and people act like idiots spreading them as well. If that was from a known reliable source then you can believe it but to me it seems mere speculation.

Truly said. The banks know the drill. Since they can't beat Bitcoin they will just become holders of Bitcoin as well but make more did about it so they and their friends can buy at lower price.
You cannot stop this process. It's all a part of the system.

Most of all this institutions are aware of the use of cryptocurrency and they have experts advisors on crypto related issue and they know it it is the token for the future they are secretly accumulating bitcon and soonest when bitcoin goes mainstream thry will reveal themselves. They notice the opportunity and they are maximising it

I do not think that many institutions secretly HODL Bitcoin, but I think that peoples behind institutions probably have some Bitcoin to edge their other investments or edge against their fiat holdings. Most institutions do not have a right to invest in something secretly, because they are playing with national money. For example Bulgaria has the second largest stash of Bitcoin (https://cryptovest.com/news/bulgaria-has-the-second-largest-bitcoin-stash-on-earth/), but that is not a secret.

I don't see any reason why not since investing in bitcoin has been proven profitable over the years. Investing in bitcoin has become quite common now and institutions are just following suit. I mean, every holder out there who believes in bitcoin would do the same. Surely, institutions simply don't want to miss out on bringing home the bacon once BTC reaches another ATH.

Absolutely, big institutions and perhaps even governments are quietly hoarding bitcoin. However, given that bitcoin has grown in legitimacy, more institutions are openly stating they intend to invest in the blaockchain space, and even the chairman of the NYSE has stated bitcoin could become a global reserve currency. The statistics show big whales are accumulating about now.

Institutions have now decide to invest into cryptocurrency and from the recent statistics institutional investors in the entire cryptocurrency is seating at 7% of the total whole the remaining are either individuals and group investors. With this increase the institutions have now found digital assets to be the other of the day.

I don’t really know for sure, but most of them that I know, even those that said bad about Bitcoin and still invested in it, all came open about it and didn’t hide anything. So don’t you think that any institution that is keeping secret, if people happens to find out later, it will be very bad for them? So any good big institutions wouldn’t try keeping things like this secret, except the ones with bad reputation.

Many sources point out that large institutions used the fall of the market to accumulate Bitcoin and altcoins in the first quarter of 2019. And judging by the fact that the demand for Bitcoin in the crypto market has grown, institutional investors continue to increase the volume of stored cryptocurrency.

agree with you. I think it's no longer a secret about cryptocurrency, especially large companies should be earlier in learning before bombing like now. about holding or investing, of course, some of the turnover and currently the big ones come from large companies interested in investing

I don't think so, many institutions are secretly holding bitcoin because with the profit that bitcoin can bring, no institution wants to refuse but of course, you will never know what these organizations are doing, they are always very quiet and have dark funds to accumulate bitcoin, the secret will no longer be a secret if you know it well. You may not believe it but you should realize that a lot of information about celebrities doesn't like bitcoin but when investigated, their company always participates in bitcoin, Bitcoin has gone very deeply into life around us

I guess 'yes' everyone is interested in being a part of crypto world, but we don't like to talk much about it, right?

This is a nice one. I would bet that if is the case of one institution who holds altcoins would be something like secret services or something similar with a spy agency?!

Which is more possible since the outcome really pays big so potential that bigger institutions already inside and makes some moves to take advantage, we won't know yet but the condition will give us ideas that there's something that brings big impact to this industry, it will be revealed sooner or later.

Some of them might holding some amount of bitcoin for a special purposes because these institutions knew that bitcoin can be a great help to their finances when another bullrun comes. These institution might assigned a special team to manage their bitcoin holdings and monitor its price. The head of the institution might also been holding some bitcoins and it may be the reason why the entire institution eventually bought bitcoin.

Do I think Institutions secretly HODL Bitcoin?
Why they would not as individuals do for many reasons.

Even today bitcoin is still very popular and because it price went down do not mean that bitcoin is not going to grow in future. I believe that bitcoin is more popular now than in 2017 because we are now seeing it been discussed over the social media this days than before.

over time the popularity of bitcoin will always continue to increase because this is an advanced technology for the future of all of us, many people throughout the country in the world are always talking about bitcoin especially with the many large platforms that start using bitcoin as their future.
although at the moment the price is undergoing a big correction after a significant increase at the end of 2017 its future is undoubted, now we can only wait for the time for bitcoin to grow soon.

Institutions secretly hold bitcoin they are the ones who hold btc .we can track www.whale-alert.io most of the whales accumulate btcs on daily bases

Fidelity is going to be offering cryptocurrency to institutional investors:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-06/fidelity-said-to-offer-cryptocurrency-trading-within-a-few-weeks


They're doing this because they think there is considerable demand from institutional investors.

There might be serious investment from institutional firms but they might be investing behind closed doors or over the counter, we saw a market recovery from the bear market and i am sure that institutional investment lifted the market from the bottom and took the price close to six thousand dollars, it is not a secret that big financial companies are showing interest in the crypto market and making their way to the crypto market.

I am 100% sure that many people hold Bitcoin secretly. I am not sure that the whole institutions do it - there is no purpose. As for me, I do not hide that I hold the cryptocurrency.

Hedge funds will hold bitcoin - the purpose is to hedge against their other investments. Bitcoin seems uncorrelated with other assets so it's a good hedge to hold. If you have a certain amount of bitcoin in your portfolio and everything else is tanking but bitcoin rises slightly, it prevents the value of your portfolio dropping like a stone.

No doubt there are so many companies and private sectors who are suing crypto currency. they have huge plan so most of them are buying at cheap price and stocking it for long term, but they are doing all this very secretly and not involving anyone with them, I am sure it will increase the adoption of crypto currency very significantly and crypto currency always exponential.

I don't think institution is secretly holding Bitcoin, but their employees are holding Bitcoin as personal asset or simply because of the hype. Big risk will give you a big result. Perhaps even they think Bitcoin is bad, deep in their heart, they doubt that and see a little potential for Bitcoin to show its performance. So, they secretly hold Bitcoin whilst keep talking that Bitcoin is bad.

well, maybe you didn't know it, some time ago I read that there were several companies and some employees who kept bitcoin as long as possible and waited for the price of bitcoin to be really very expensive because thinking bitcoin would be very expensive when the supply had reached its maximum limit.

I think the future of bitcoin will not fade because from the past until now it is still the main coin of crypto

I believe both the employer and employee are taking good measure to stock up more and more bitcoin as time passes on. These institutions are not delusional trolls like majority of no-coiners are. They are way more intelligent than what you think you know and that is the reason they are multi-billion dollar companies running this world with their influence. They know what will be big and worth investing for the future.

Seeing them the employee, at least those who are rich enough among them and have some wits would also jump the bandwagon at start trading bitcoin when they have money at hand.

besides saving more bitcoin, of course what you have to do is buy it back to add assets. that way they are like saving their assets, because it can trigger the price development. to cause massive purchases

Logically correct basing from what success showed up, Bitcoin still the main coin inside this industry, there's a big possibilities that institutions already  have knowledge and they already begin holding assets like this since then, we know that part of the team behind any institutions have a good understanding regarding to this market.

There is no doubt with bitcoin is the best crypto currency but institutional holders might decrease its potential level by increasing the price or decreasing the value by manipulation then it can't be used as currency.

Yeah, I honestly think companies are hodling bitcoins. It might also be that they are the ones behind some FUDding, taking advantage of accumulating bitcoins at dumped price. It's impossible that they don't anticipate where our global financial and economic landscape is heading to. They wouldn't be in their position if they are not clever, so I suppose they also somehow maneuver the crypto market behind the seen and hoard cryptos.

Yes it seems that is what happens because people in institutions are those smart people who make it possible to take advantage of all forms that will benefit them, this is a strategy for those who will eventually become a main target for their finances to gain a lot of profit from each increase and the decline that occurred in this industry.

Definitely institutions are one of the major holders of bitcoin globally. Most of this huge institutions are always behind the scene studying and accumulating more coin and patiently waiting for the market to grow. These set of firms has seen the uniqueness of bitcoin and cryptocurrency way before now and they're among the reason why bitcoin is growing gradually.

Institutions is here because of the technology, so it's guaranteed that they are here to hold Bitcoin for long term.
More institutions investing, what would lessen the supply in circulation and as the adoption continues the demand will certainly increase more.

The result will be a good price increase if both actions are done.
What we are seeing now in the market could be an effect of the institutional money pouring in crypto. 

I do not think this is happening, especially massively. Institutions, like all legal entities, need to be accountable for their economic activities, and these operations are very difficult to hide or explain. Only citizens, as individuals, can keep a cryptocurrency without problems.

In my opinion, it can be an institution that has individuals or groups that can save bitcoin, but if government institutions are very unlikely to save this bitcoin, especially government institutions that do not approve of the existence of bitcoin in countries like some developing countries and there are also various developed countries.  reason, but if there are private companies that invest in bitcoin but I don't know which company has a lot of assets in Bitcoin

It will happen when one person managed them operation only. Easy for hide operation like cryptocurrency especially bitcoin, cause p2p don't need central control ussually. No body know when big intitutions company bought some crypto 3 mounth ago for research and investing. then price rising today and another followed.

right, we don't know which private company has big assets in bitcoin. of course the company has analyzed wisely before investing. on the other hand they certainly have a good analysis of the future of btc

what if an institution has an analytical trader then it might be possible for a school or something else to invest in bitcoin because in my opinion the opportunity to play is also very large if the institution can analyze what will happen and what market strategy will be used to play bitcoin but still we can't know it can only guess whether yes or not because surely the institution is very closed and cannot be published just like that in practice

Indeed, but seems like to invest in bitcoin I doubt they will do it. Government has some experts and before they do something then they will ask first to expert. As you may know some experts especially an economic expert they still doubt to bitcoin as investment place because its volatility. Moreover, for those countries who still ban bitcoin and most likely they won't have an investment in bitcoin. I guess the average investors bitcoin are they investor who knows about technology and also people who don't like to goverment rule.

The work of accounts were to create way to escape taxes and make investments. This is done by most of the large scale firms, and as the above mate described it won't be found with the varying price margin. When something is more potential it'll easily get the attention of the corporates and they try to find way to develop of their own. Bitcoin isn't that easy and understanding the reality majority of the firms make investments secretly.

Once an institution invested in crypto, we have to expect that they have bigger plans in the future.
It's normal, they just own a big amount of bitcoin just like any others, but those who can really move the market are the whales either they are individual or institution, so it doesn't really matter. What I want to see is that they will support the technology and the market will not dump because they hold firm.

Maybe before they have still doubts but I think after they have seen bitcoin making a huge rally this past few weeks, I think they started doing it. And even there is not a lot of them disclose it, they are sure going to buy more secretly when all the major consumer brands started to accept btc. Just let them have their skepticim so we have still a lot of buyers when btc is very expensive.

Do you know how many institutions there is in this world? Every country have many different institutions. Lets concentrate about institutions that have some connections with technology, how many of them there are in this world?
In Japan,  Switzerland, China, USA, Australia, Brazil, Argentina we can find institutions that invested heavily in crypto, secretly there are even more of them.

I think the future of bitcoin will not fade now, many investors and large companies invest in crypto and start receiving crypto payments

Bitcoin will remain the market leader for a long time considering what domination bitcoin has on the market now, and the fact that it is a symbol of the cryptocurrency .

besides the symbol of cryptocurrency , this is the pioneer on blockchain technology before all altcoin appear in developt many blockchain version.

besides the symbol of cryptocurrency , this is the pioneer on blockchain technology before all altcoin appear in developt many blockchain version.and ofcourse now bitcoin be benchmark in cryptocurrency.

Companies are really taking time to make their own private blockchain and holding the big fund in bitcoin and some recognized altcoins as well. Please do not believe the whales when they are speaking negative about the cryptocurrencies.

In that time only they invest  big amounts over cryptos and stop other to get involved in that.

Even after having those symbols of blockchain we can see that bitcoin is getting famous day by day some more institutes are accepting it and some are using it to bring relaxation and ease in their life, so yes there are so many institutes who are accepting and holding bitcoin as bitcoin has the most beneficial nature in case of holing.

I believe that the institutions or even the goverments secretly hold Bitcoin. Actually it would be unnecessary for them to give us a clear idea of ​​this. Within the cyrpto market, we can easily estimate that the investments of individuals do not have a large share.

of course their goal is to make a profit later. for those who can see the potential of bitcoin, of course they will be tempted to invest, even if it is long-term. with limited supply they are sure to put their funds in

I don't think companies hold BTCs.

I mean why would they do that? Instead of BTC, I think they should hold for assets that their company talks about and think that will be a good product in their investment. I do think that maybe one of those investors hold BTC, just some person invest on Bitcoin but in terms of the whole company holding it, I don't think so.

Institutions definitely hold crypto currencies and in recent interviews by top banks statements on bitcoin they are positive so it means most of top financial institutions are positive towards crypto 

institutions especially those on the private sectors are definitely investing not only on Bitcoin but also top cryptocurrency in the market, these private investment institutions must sustain their business model and Bitcoin is a good option for them to make a profit both from short term or short term.

I believe if that was not the institution but that's the only person that works for the institution.  If the institution decides to invest in the crypto and it will create an announcement related to the legal status of cryptocurrency. but you will rarely find that news these days. If that was an official institution and i can't even believe with it until there will be a proof.

Really? And where are you getting these figures from? I know so many institutions both private, non profit and even government ones and they do not buy crypto because you can see it from their own financial figures. They all have shareholders who have to see where money goes, and they have to get the permission of board members, and take votes on whether or not they can get into crypto. It is not easy at all,,, so where are all these bodies?

I won't be surprise if several of these institutions like the bank and the government do. They can clearly see that i cannot be stopped. Giant companies like Facebook, Google and Apple are slowly adapting to it. If you guys focus only on the tech and not just as a speculation asset, it really is going to reshape the whole world. The world-leading banks are the only ones that kept denying and it's the only reason we can't keep pushing forward aggressively.

Not just the companies but we people will use it.

With the technologies flourishing, I don't think cryptocurrencies will just be left out just like that. There are a lot of ways it can be used in the future and it is the same with its technology which is the blockchain technology. I think before these companies and other people use this, there should be a way that it can be developed that it can be used to daily transactions.

well, I don't know. we know that some institutes take advantage of the development of crypto for their benefit. I am sure, if they are interested in this development, I think they are holding back some assets. well, but it all depends on the institute.

I don't think they would hold bitcoins instead of stocks that already have a bright future , since the value of bitcoins goes up and down so fast they must really be scared to hold something like this ..they would either save the money or invest in something stable ... Institutions needs stability and resources ... The good ones won't ...
It is risky and doesn't really define as investment its more like luck by change .

The value of bitcoin goes up very fast and goes down is similar but as you can see, the profit that bitcoin can bring us when its value goes up, a number that any investor proved surprised, and with such profits, secret institutions will be very interested in investing money in bitcoin. Add a reason, secret organizations operate in an underground system, the sources of money and what they invest in need to have a high degree of anonymity, errors that sometimes bring a huge loss in the face of government, Bitcoin is a product that is too favorable for secret institutions to accumulate and increase assets

institutions like investment funds? I am almost sure they do , even if they say they do not
if you look at the major investment funds almost all of them are keeping distance from bitcoin
they say so , but as professionals in investment , they cannot be oblivious to the asset performance
bitcoin has done better than most of the assets , including gold - nearly 100x only for the past 4 years
if they do not HODL bitcoin , there must be something wrong with their professional capacity , so I'm sure they do
maybe not as an institution , since bitcoin is a grey are legally-wise , but the individual analysts and managers must be piling them up like crazy

We can sure could always impeach NASDAQ , NYSE, DOW JONES and any other what you call as "financial institutions" they are holding bitcoin without want to expose it all .

But still it would always be a baseless opinion without a real data and mean nothing. There's no value in it.

What's the point? Building fundamentals ?

It is very likely that large institutions - which can afford important investments, especially risking clients' money - use a portion of the figures they manage to experiment in "risk zones". Obviously they will never admit it.

It would be possible, anything is possible, but we can surely be positive on that if we thoroughly investigate. Maybe around them must have some  people who are willing to dispose intel on that. I guess if they have so, they are not just the kind of people to show it to public and just keep it with themselves.

Certainly yes but it's difficult to prove since no one can trace someone's Bitcoin wallet through searching using their name. If we as individual were able to hold Bitcoin secretely, why can't they do it too? Institutions aren't stopping looking and grabbing for every opportunity they can get too which is normal. Nevertheless it's beneficial to crypto market itself since they can occupy huge portions of Bitcoin's supply, making its price higher.

How the institutions can hold Bitcoin secretly, when the holdings are regularly audited and cross-checked every now and then? If the authorities go ahead with purchase of Bitcoin without informing anyone, then they'll later face legal action and will be held accountable. Tax revenue can't be spend as per the individual preferences. Any spending (related to crypto or not) requires permission from the parliament.

I have heard of several conspiracy theories, but this one is one of the most ridiculous ones that I ever came across. You can claim that the banks and some of the wall street giants may be accumulating Bitcoin. There is no ambiguity, as they don't need any permission from anyone to do so. But if you are talking about institutions, then it is an entirely different game.

Bitcoin is the real solution to cashless policy advocacy, thou a risky venture, but with strong fundamental  therefore several institution has secretly acquire BTC in order to take advantage wealth transfer through cryptocurrency.

I wouldn't doubt the fact that the prominent and institutional leaders of our various countries hold some Bitcoin. Since the whole technology and idea is decentralized and anonymous, who can tell exactly who holds BTC? I believe these renowned personalities are the major holders yet will come out strongly criticizing BTC - the game of politics on Bitcoin.

I've read an article recently where coinbase stating  that a large fund has entered in their website  and it was believe by the ceo that it was from institution. I don't know if I am glad to hear this because in my perspective, these institutions are just doing it in case the tables are turned and bitcoin really succeed. But I think more and more institutions will do this after we hit either $50k or $100k btc.

We should be glad regardless of their purpose as Institutional money can create big demand in the market.

And also, I doubt that article is telling the truth because coinbase is a regulated exchange and they don't have the right to divulge information regarding money going in and out on their exchange.

As long as it is a big demand, at least the market will get a good impact even though someday the bear market will definitely happen, regardless of what the purpose behind all of that crypto market will indeed go up and down. Maybe it's an article that will make many investors and other institutions enter more in their exchanges and that is a positive article that will indirectly make prices grow higher.

Cryptocurrency is something that they cannot ignore, this is an investment that started from a few dollars and now it's worth thousands of dollars, I'm pretty sure that they are holding and hodlers of a large amount of Bitcoin.
They might not like to discuss it now, because it is still premature, and they want to discuss it at the right time.

I believe they would HODL bitcoin, it is the “internet of money” and they are just waiting for more adoption. Even Watford FC is planning to accept it as a means of payment for its merchandise.

I agree.

Even if they are 'afraid' of crypto, because they will lose their power from the current financial system, they are going to have at least 2 huge reasons.
Profit out of it.
And if they can't kill it, it is even better to try and control it.

The reason why most are not public about it, I think it's because they want to get as much as they can before mass adaption.

I heard some information that some financial industries including central banks in several countries are experimenting with Bitcoin. Which actually isn't anything strange, their business is to watch all kinds of financial movements and inovation. They need to know what are their options and opportunities with cryptocurrencies because they are aware this is something that can't be avoided anymore. And I think they have much more positive attitude towards crypto that public thinks.

For sure but silently holding because if they will announce, it would create a big hype in the market and bitcoin might again pump which is bad for long term. These big institution are accumulating at the best time, so if Bitcoin is slowly growing or will dump, that's the time they will continue to buy and for at least a year already, bitcoin gives us an opportunity to accumulate since it's very cheap that period especially last year and early this year.

When they hold, they will hold it for long term, and this will bring positive effect to the market as the circulation will be lowered while it's inevitable that the demand will continue to increase, with that, we can expect a surge of price in the long run. So, if we haven't invested yet, we should think twice that we are missing an opportunity now.

Apparently, these big institutions are aware of the benefits of Bitcoin and will not sit down and watch as investors enjoy everything. These institutions invest huge into crypto and since most of the transactions are anonymous, they tend to hide behind the transactions because most of them play important roles in governmental affairs. The institutions know Bitcoin and cryptocurrency cannot be stopped and will receive a mass adoption some years to come which will boost its market price.

well, this is a lot of question marks because as I know there are some companies that pay attention to technology that is increasingly sophisticated even payment or money transactions are also increasingly sophisticated because implementing a digital currency system and they understand saving digital currencies will make the future brighter because can get many benefits when saving large amounts of currency.

We need to make a difference here, not all institutions have funds for investing, I think there is more without funds than with funds. And just to say, term institutions is very wide, many of the institutions don`t have anything with technology, and I think most of the institutions are not aware of cryptocurrencies.
But some are in the game for a long time, they invested on time, they will not wait for higher price to enter in the crypto world.

Of course they are... no one speaks about it while accumulating...  on last few years we have seen several cases of blunt accumulation from institutions, while they also practice hard core FUD to lower the prices...
Those that have some exposure and money are taking advantage of the low dimension of the market and hoarding tons of BTC...
Money printers are getting prepared to change from fiat to BTC

Talking about companies means talking about business and profits. A company can survive and print profits if it can read opportunities and dynamically respond to changes in the economic atmosphere. Big companies always have big research and development project funds as well. Moreover, discussing the issue of research and development funds for companies that have a great concern for the digital world.

Can you imagine how much money is prepared by large companies to deal with the current digital economic wave .. So I'm pretty sure they can't afford to ignore Cryptocurrencies and probably looking for investment opportunities in it.

Yes, I'm having a feeling that institutional investors are buying  up and investing immensely in cryptos, they won't speak about it,  they might as well be causing FUD to get at cheaper price

When they are through buying they bring out news in pumping and making the market soar high again

I think digital currencies like bitcoin in the eyes of companies are no longer foreign, now I am sure that some large companies keep assets in the form of bitcoin or other digital currencies, even though they still don't dare to keep all of their assets in cryptocurrency because they realize that cryptocurrency like this has a very high risk and certainly the benefits are desired by the company.

yes because bitcoin are not new anymore . bitcoin started on 2009 right ? but look at btc now.

 we are in the current year of 2019 and btc had improve alot .  with those many years that btc existed , many people already heard and see btc as a useful currency and a profitable asset as well  .

 institutions dont differ on them  . they also invest on btc because they dont want to get left behind or simply they invest because they want to earn more aside from thier income   .

Institutions are a big factor in the market and secretly manipulate the market rather than do HODLing. They accumulate when people are fearing the market when there’s big dips. They have more money than they need and have plenty of patience. My opinion is they spend 70% of their allotted amount for Bitcoin purchases on dips and when it’s time for the market to pump, they all through in their remaining 30% to pump their previous bags and once the retail FOMO buyers get in, they dump the market once they realize the market is close to peaking, what I would do if I were wealthy enough to do this.

Not yet have companies want to hold bitcoin or some altcoin, by seeing price higher they will sell all of their bitcoin and altcoin asstes, its have big effect for bitcoin dump because companies have thousand bitcoin balance in their account, just few people or investor keep holding bitcoin in small amount about one hundred to five hundred of bitcoin.

Yes it is possible ! since we can see in the chart that there are a some mysterious happening in the bitcoin volume, some of them are hoarding bitcoin so that they can manipulate it , this things are possible , as you can observe during this months onwards there will be a change in bitcoin volume, you may see it for yourself.

Many institution make bitcoin some time dump and pump, they have big power to raise bitcoin on the top or lower price, I think there are many institution have thousand bitcoin assets and running for bitcoin price, they always make bitcoin price when have down and when have to make bitcoin price on higher.

That is possible, even governments that strictly prohibited bitcoin in their country may be holding bitcoin as an asset. Probably because bitcoin is decentralized many people are attracted to it and not only the people but also the many corporations and organizations as well because they find bitcoin that it is a very good investment, Also it is a secured network and has freedom in doing transactions. That is because of anonymity.

I strongly believe these big institutions and governmental bodies hold some cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin. They are all aware of the benefits of Bitcoin and what the future holds for cryptocurrencies. And once they cannot destroy this development, they would rather prefer to be part of the comfortable ride when the day comes when Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies are announced legal worldwide.

Not the institutions themselves but the owners of those institutions are might possibly be investing in Bitcoin but for now only few of them admited that they are investing in Bitcoin like JP Morgan and many others at https://www.investopedia.com/articles/people/083016/who-are-top-5-bitcoin-millionaires.asp

It is impossible for them to not hold bitcoin. Institutions are so diversified and they all know that it is best to stay that way. They are putting a lot of money in different investment vehicles such as bonds, mutual funds, stocks, real estate and other well known investment vehicles and there is a high possibility that they also putted their money in cryptocurrencies as well to not lose the opportunity.

Maybe some of the big institutions have a secret holding of bitcoin and do you think they will not try to invest in very valuable things on the internet. For me, some of them will not announce that they hold bitcoin simple because of privacy and maybe even the big companies in different countries have a different investment in cryptocurrencies. We all know that investment in cryptocurrencies is taxless that's why they also invested in it. Lastly, I do believe that the big institutions are one of the whales in the world of cryptocurrencies.

I don't know for sure about holding, what I do know is that institutions engaged in technology and finance must have understood cryptocurrency, so the possibility of institutions holding bitcoin is there, but we don't know clearly because of the secrecy of identity in the ledger I mean transactions without identity are likely to difficult to know unless the institution announces an interest in or not to cryptocurrency directly.

I bet they do. They have no reason what so ever in order to not gather and hold bitcoin. The problem will be that will not use profits in order to boost the economy of the country they are based in so this has no use for a regular citizen.

If they will use at least a part of the profits that they will make to make jobs , build hospitals and improve education then they will earn more respect from the population for election as I'm sure governments are involved deep into bitcoin and blockchain but they never make it public.

Yes! I thunk they are the ones who secretly holding the bitcoin, I mean they cary a large amount of bitcoins, so they can regulate bitcoin. They probably buy so many bitcoin when the bitcoin price drops last year I think. I dont know if they are already having an institution. But the bitcoin that they are hodling is the only proof that they can affect the market value.

There is a lot happening in this world and this is not possible that those who desire power and money still have not grabbed bitcoin. I can bank on this that they have been holding bitcoin since its birth. As far as the blockchain technology goes, it is being used in many different ways by giant companies to serve the purpose of making system secure and efficient. Bitcoin is not stuff that a wise person will ignore.

There are highly possibilities that this is happening.
They have really identified the dynamic that crypto market has, and they might have already dived into this market in order to manipulate it and control it by inside.