Bitcoin Forum

So, long story short, account Rambotic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1947772) posted this conversation between him and account ginalli (who started scam accusation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105084.0) against Cloudbet):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105084.msg49572742#msg49572742

I tagged account, but I would also like to hear opinions.

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Also, cryptohunter is welcome to post her opinion as long as she will be able go through all this and stay on topic.

The opinion is - read more.
Yes i suggested him to pay bribe of course.
If that's his only chance to turn his loss back from the scammers that should be done.
Bribe can be put in escrow so they cannot scam him twice.
And yes it is known tactics from scammers to ask people for money upfront, like i said to him.
After he give me more information about the case, i clearly told him to not pay them a single cent, because it was obvious scam.
But still i will never ever change my mind that bribe can be paid to turn back his losses.
If any amount be in escrow in return of unlocking his account, that's at least solution with minimum loss to him instead of losing everything.
Make sure you read everything with the time stamps and how the conversation goes.

Edit: Full conversation between me and the guy is posted by me public, i have nothing to hide.
Also i posted my pm, posted my offer to him to help in exchange for money that should be paid AFTER if i manage to help him and not upfront.
I don't see anything wrong to ask money for service (help) especially when i clearly stated he should pay me if the things work.
Also i don't see anything wrong for him paying bribe if that will help his case.
Everyone with brain will chose to pay little bit and taking his loses back.
If the offer were legit, the guy could always suggest escrow use for the bribe so the things can't go wrong.
When you dealing with scammers, you should be always open to suggestions but using your brain also.
Sending payments without security is not acceptable.

Yuck. Don't privately suggest anything that even remotely looks like a bribe or anything else that is illegal.

There is absolutely no proof that:
1) The victim's case is valid.
2) The money request was made by them (email sender field is relatively trivial to spoof).

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Therefore, there is no proof that they are scammers either. Avoid making sudden decisions when trying to be a vigilante even if you have the sincerest intentions. One doesn't really learn this until they get burned by it. :-[

If they're scammers why would they return the money after they get more money? They could just as easily pay part of the withdrawal and keep the rest if that was the goal. Your "advice" makes no sense and your statement that all casinos do it is a flat-out lie.

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Your rating is factual and appropriate. Rambotnic behavior could be interpreted as trying too hard to earn a reward from the allegedly scammed person, but given past questionable behavior I think the benefit of the doubt has been exhausted by now.

Then give us your best suggestion how he can solve this problem?

And why i am not allowed to suggest people privately ? If bribe is his only way to turn his money back, why would he pass that ?
There is million ways of him paying that bribe in safe way including escrow service so they could not scam him twice.
If that's a way to turn back 38 stolen bitcoins from them, why would someone refuse paying any small amount in exchange to return that large amount ?
For me it makes no sense to refuse paying little bit in exchange to take the huge loss back.

1) The victim's case is valid for sure i never said it is not. That doesn't change the fact someone contacted him asking for money.
2) Any money request is another act of scam, but there is smart way to either avoid this or at least take the advantage of the situation by paying small amount by using safe service such an escrow to turn back huge loss.

All i were trying to do is help the user to earn 0.1btc
Coins that i ask AFTER i help him out and not before that.

Guy approach to account ginalli and asked them 5btc to restore his account. You strongly suggested that they should pay 1-2 bitcoin. I found whole private conversation very strange.

Read carefully:

https://imgur.com/a/btwk1SM

All I'm reading is you suggesting that the guy bargain with the casino to lower the 5BTC amount of extortion.  It's not a bribe. One of your last quotes is "you have no other option than deal with them if you want to have your stuff back".  That is indeed suggesting he pay the extortionists, perhaps not the full amount but at least a partial payment.

And you want 0.1BTC for helping him get his account back?  How did you plan on doing that and how was he supposed to know you were responsible for him getting it back?  You're clearly trying to make a profit for yourself off of someone else's dilemma.

As far as I can see you never mentioned escrow in that chat. Also - you lied that all casinos do it to big players.

And why would an allegedly scammy casino release 38 BTC after getting a 5 BTC "bribe"? They could just pay out 33 BTC if that was the plan. None of it makes any sense whatsoever. At best you're very very dumb if you truly believe what you're saying. Or you're trying to shake down ginalli by pretending that you know what you're talking about.

@Rambotic I will delete every post in row and every post where you repeated things you have already said above. Unless you have anything new to add to this conversation don't post at all.
Whole thing is very strange.

We never continue our conversation and i never had agreement from his side paying me 0.1 after my help.

I have no idea why would an allegedly scammy casino release 38btc after getting 1-3-5-15 btc "bribe".
All i can do is predict and ask questions to find solution
If you think i am dumb for what i am saying, then you are dumb for not accepting other view points and counting your own only.
Why would be dumb to pay what they want to make your loss less?
Why would be dumb to use escrow paying that "bribe" so he can't be scammed again?
Accepting the "bribe" will only help no matter they accept it with escrow or refuse it because of the escrow offer.
Already said why accepting the bribe will be the best idea.
It will either expose them as blackmailers if they accept to receive bribe with escrow service, or will expose them for second scam attempt.
Accepting paying bribe is not the same as paying it.
It can be used to clear the situation and understand more about the scammers intentions.
Think big not small.

I don't think it was important for you to continue that conversation, also, I might be wrong.

If it was not important for me to earn 0.1btc i would never suggest it.
I did this for money, money which i request after i help.
I were and im still more than interested to continue the conversation with him and trying to earn that 0.1 btc by legal way.
I will repeat words of mine from another thread:

" Your logic is just the same like "A lawyer saw a person in real bind and looked to make some money for his self for helping him"
Yes i am not a lawyer but same as the lawyer i do spend my time trying to solve his problem by the best way for him.
By your logic, lawyers should not exists because they take advantage of people in trouble to help them in exchange of money...
And actually the lawyers asking money upfront to start a case, i did ask money after the case is closed with happy end. "

Edit: I still stand behind my words he should accepted (in words) paying that bribe so he could see where the situation will go to expose their real intentions.
There is many ways to expose them, and that's a really smart one.

*As i stated months ago with TMAN, i was policeman in real life and i do have experience with scammers.
I do know how they work, i do know how they think.
Saying is not like doing it, at least you can expose their intentions and know what exactly is going on.
By doing anything wrong, i would not earn the requested 0.1 from me, why the hell i would do this? It makes no sense...

Is Rambotic working for cloudbet?

How he can ask to fix a problem for 0.1 btc if he is not working with them ??? ::)

The cloudlet team is very active on the forum and they do a lot of free things for the community here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=71.0, but today is Sunday so probably they are off and we will get their point of view on the situation tomorrow.

This seems an attempt to scam BUT, as said before tomorrow probably the cloudbet team will explain this situation too.

I've helped several people as I could here on forum and I never asked one Satoshi to help them.

I do not work for cloudbet.
How could a laywer ask for money to fix a problem with company if he's not working with them ?
With knowledge, tactics and brain.
And most likely he were never being in contact with real cloudbet but some scammer who see his email from the scam report and send him email requesting him to add random telegram.
The point of everything is for start to know is he talking with the real cloudbet or random scammer.
By accepting paying "bribe" he will understand many things are they real or not.
People should go always by the rules of those guys only in words to realize what is going on.
By that way he could understand what is real what is fake and what is going on.
This tactics are old like the sun.

You guys judging me because i have different view point and tactics than you? Is that true?
Because my tactics and different view point cannot harm the guy at all but only can help.
If you have different view and tactic than mine, then share it and lets do the right thing.
But tagging me because i have different view and way to do things is more than absurd.
Also tagging me because im asking money for help.
People selling carded paypals/ stolen cards and super illegal things on this forum and none of them get in trouble, but when someone want to help other person and asking money for that is it problem ?
I don't really understand this.
If you don't accept my ways, you can just tell me that's not right because that and that, by the same way i explain why i think my way is right.
Why should all of you guys need to abuse your powers instead of taking to people to understand their view point and if its not right just to explain them why?
Because that kind of over reacts the forum is almost dead.
Only 200-300 people from all the forum talking in meta, exchanging merits and being active, the market sections are dead, full with spam with unhandled reports, and you judging person who is trying to do the things better only because you don't accept his way ?
Be more polite to people, not to me specially but to everyone.
That's why we are here, to negotiate, and talk to each other how is right and how is not.

So you suggested them to pay 1-2BTC, even knowing there is very very high chance this is..."some scammer"?

Actually, it is strange to say this after all. After this:

If you don't mind sharing where you have seen this before?

That is not what happened. This happened:

https://imgur.com/a/btwk1SM

Because the casino already has the player's money. They can keep or take all of it or part of it, depending on their or player's level of scamminess, which you have zero influence over.

There are some possible scenarios - such as the player lying, or the player talking to a scammer and not the real casino, or the casino being a scam - none of which would necessitate paying for the withdrawal.

It's funny how you post walls of text without addressing basic facts. Do all casinos do this to big players?

Yeah, at this point I don't think it's clear that that was even cloudbet's account that requested the 5BTC.  If it is, please direct me to that info.  People are saying to wait until tomorrow for cloudbet to respond to this--I assume there are no reps available on the weekend or whatever.  If it turns out that it was them, they're sure to get tons of red.

That said, if it's doubtful that the identity of the extortionist is known with certainty, making a suggestion to bargain with them and pay a smaller amount (and some to Rambotnic) is horrible advice if not completely scammy on Rambotnic's part.  We'll see what cloudbet has to say about it, I guess.

We all have influence and it is called "questions".
We can all start asking questions and questions which will put them in situation that they will either lie or expose their real intentions.
I do have my tactics and strategy how to expose what is going on.
In first place was he even really contacted from real person from that casino or just a scammer.

In most scenarios i will waste my time and not earn any money, but at least i will try.
And yes i will suggest him playing by their rules only in words but not in acts.
That's how we will actually understand who is lying, who is saying the truth and what is going on.
In first place we all should not over react and realize saying is not like acting.
I can suggest him asking and saying many things that will help us to realize the truth.
Because like you said above, maybe even the player may be the cheater.

Yes, all scamming casinos do this to their big players.
Please, do not miss the "scamming" before the casinos.
A real legal operating casinos will never do that.
But based on the report from this guy, this is scamming casino.
Why? Because the facts with the previous 300btc claim and now this 38 claim.
For start we can count them as scamming casino and yes all scammers no matter they are casino or something else, they trying to milk/scam more and more.
I know what i am saying and i know what i am doing.
If you get it wrong please share with me what i am doing wrong and how the person can be harmed by my strategy.
My only "bad" intentions was to earn money from him AFTER helping him, which will actually cost him 10x less than hiring lawyer and start case if i success.

TP, i don't understand how my suggestion is scamy consider i never ask for money upfront?
Also you guys asking me why i keep repeating the same and the same again.
Why should i keep repeating that telling the guy to say something is not the same as doing it.
Everything is just to expose their intentions and also to see is this real person from couldbet or not.
You guys really judge for different opinion and without actual facts.
I did nothing wrong, and my strategy could not harm the guy at all but only can give us more information about the case.

Yes, this is my supposition because as we can see here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=154563;sa=showPosts;start=20, he has no posts today or yesterday, on the 25th and 26th of January and on 19th and 20th of January, so I think they are not active here on weekends.

I didn't miss anything. You made it up after the fact, just like your tale about escrow or this being some sort of shrewd plan to expose scammers.

https://meem.link/i/a/nHhQrv.jpg
Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

https://meem.link/i/a/VsiSpB.jpg
Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

Excuse me, but how did you know someone tried to "bribe" them before they even mentioned it in scam accusation or in telegram chat with you?

https://i.imgur.com/tCTWPdl.png

https://i.imgur.com/kdeu6Wx.png
Again, who did this? Sound like many cases.

https://i.imgur.com/z6knx5A.png

It seems you know some infos here. And you forget to mention that they offered you 3BTC - you somehow didn't spot that. Actually, from this conversation I can only conclude that 0.1btc was side story.

https://i.imgur.com/0uoQpwv.png

https://i.imgur.com/u1cqCEx.png

https://i.imgur.com/UixrHI2.png

What do you mean with "you can ask anyone from forum, they won't unlock account before you pay them" and "check the forum, you will see that casinos are doing that to many players" ?? Where can we find that in forum?

As I said, I will also wait Cloudbet for this, but possibility that they tried to pull this to unlock account is almost 0%.

Our conversation did not continue because he didn't seem interested paying me for my help after all its over.
And yes, based on the scam reports, i consider this casino as scam casino.
And as all scam casinos, yes they all do the same, and yes they will not give them anything if he don't accept paying bribe.
Which doesn't mean he will do it, at least accepting that will give information.
All scamming casinos/games/persons doing just one thing more, trying to milk more.
And yes that's old tactic.
Please, do not read only what you want to, but also the other things i say.

Edit: After i see he is not interested to fix his problem with me, i tell him that he should not pay them cent and that i don't want his money.
None of you follow the conversation and the time stamp?

What is timestamp? This was posted before OP shared details in scam accusation:

So, I'll bold questions for you, it seems you can't find them:

I know what and when exactly i said, thanks for pointing that out.
What weird and not in place you find ?
I follow strict logic and strategy to manage the scammers to expose their self, their previous and future intentions.
If the guy accepted to pay their "bribe" just in words, it would help the case by many ways.

 I think it's normal for Rambotic to ask for money to help unlock the account, i do not even want to argue of whether he has any sort of influence on them or not,
because that is not important, i have seen similar cases "not related to casinos" where random people solve problems for people and get paid ,he also asked to get paid "after" the account is unlocked, to me that was  a legit/normal move.

the shady part however, is this

1- if you are certain that they will unlock his account after he bribe them , then what are you asking the money for ( 0.1 btc) ???
2- if by paying you or anybody else 0.1 btc the issue will be solved, why did you suggest to him that he pays 2 btc ?

1- Sadly i am not certain but can only have good faith that i will earn my 0.1 with something good (helping someone in really bad situation).
Also as i stated before, accepting paying bribe ( every single scammer trying to milk more their victims) doesn't mean he will or should do it.
There is many many moves after accepting that which will expose their previous and future intentions.
The most important part here is information.
Information that can be used against the scammer/scammers.
Accepting their own rules is the only way this conversation to continue in way which they will expose them self.
If they wanted different thing than money, he should accept that also, just to take that time advantage and expose them and collect information.

2- I randomly said 2btc. Actually the amount he should counter offer is not really important, it should be 1,2,3,4 btc but not 5 (the same they want).
You will ask me "why"?
Because there should negotiation and interest from the victim proving that he's willing to pay but not willing to go that much.
That will make the scammers to chat more, and eventually give more information and share more things.
As 1. the main goal here is information.
Why i suggest him paying at all were already said couple time.
And i do not feel bad for asking money for my time.
This is not illegal and i do not do anything bad.
No matter you like it or not, it is true 0.1 btc it will cost him way less than hiring lawyer or any other way.
My activity on this forum were always transparent and i try to help people for free when i can with what i can.
But when it will cost me more time and nervs, yes i will ask for money and i have full right especially asking it after the job is done.

The most important thing here is the guy were not really interested in thru paying 0.1btc in order to receive 38btc consider it will cost him nothing in begin for me to start.
I've been called many bad names so far, even scammer from TP consider we both know that i always suggest and use escrow for all my trades or any trade that i think is risky for anyone.
TP, we both know that every time i see something wrong on this forum, you got pm from me.
How come you calling me scammer and a bad person for asking money for my time for legal services?
Especially when my offer of "services" could only bring good to the "victim".
And believe me, that kind of "victim" would pay way more to the person who help him, even without asking for money, because 38btc is a lot of money, and only an idiot would not give a piece to his helping "angel".
If people do not accept my strategy and way to do the things, that doesn't mean they are bad or illegal.
After all in the end, no matter what i do or not do, my acts and strategy cannot harm the "victim" with any money, time waste or anything.
But i learn one lesson, trying to help people on this forum is auto goal.
People on this forum should only watch their own business and let other people being scammed and not being friendly and being humans.
Everyone here is playing good but none of you waste time to talk with the guy and trying to help him for free.
None of you want to waste time with that case, but you blame the people who have time to try to earn some money without doing anything bad.

You're just making this up as you go along.  None of this was ever discussed with the victim, only what you wanted to get out of it and your suggestion that he pay the extortion/ransom that the perpetrator demanded.

The more I think about it the more it looks like Rambotnic was trying to shake ginalli down for 5 BTC. I can't think of any reasonable explanation why someone would insist on paying scammers (whether it's a scammy casino or someone pretending to be a casino "admin") a "bribe" for a withdrawal. I re-read the chat for the third time and all Rambotnic's excuses seem to have been made up after the conversation was concluded. And the whole idea of a "bribe" - as marlboroza pointed out - seems to have been brought up by Rambotnic before ginalli was contacted by the person asking for the "bribe".

As you can see on this scam report, he tried to put the blame on me somehow and i made our conversation public because i still don't feel doing wrong thing.
I didn't discuss the future strategy with the "victim" because his lack of interest paying for my time.
Which is weird for me and should open questions that someone who wants to turn his 38btc back is not willing to pay for successful job.
A job which will cost him no time, and way less money than any other methods.
I cannot offer success, that's why i didn't ask money upfront.
After all the over reacts i was forced to share my strategy how i would do what to get over to information which can be used against scammers.
Im not some newbie joined yesterday to be judged hard without even someone ask for me to explain.
Also no one watch the red signs how this guy added me in telegram consider i never pmed it.
So far i understand that you blame me because i want money for my time from "victim".
But if my job end successful in the end he won't be victim and i will be his "hero" right?
Because we all know that no matter who is it, if you help person to turn back that kind of scammed amount, you will be hero.
All of you over react on me and judge me hard based on how you will and how you won't do it.
The facts are facts, no matter you won't do it by that way, my way can be only helpful and cannot harm the "victim".
My way can only bring more information which can be used against them.
No matter do you guys like how im trying to help, the important here is that at least i am trying to help.
If my way cannot harm the "victim" there is nothing wrong with it, even the part with the 0.1 btc requested from me.
In the end of the day, he could always block me and ignore me if i success right?
Who will force him pay me 0.1btc even if i success? Me? You? Actually no one can.
That kind of agreement is also false and cannot give me 100% that he will actually pay me something in the end.

OK let's just assume you were honest, and i will let the part of you asking him to pay bribe the extortionist slip.

you asking for 0.1 btc to help a poor soul ,in exchange for getting his account back, but now you speak about information ? if he gets his account back after paying the bribe, why does he need to pay you 0.1 btc? let alone the very unsmart advice of paying a scammer more money to return what they have already scammed.

TL;DR

it's either you were trying to scam him, or being a part of the extortion team , or you could be honest but you differently have no idea what the fuck  you were doing and you just wanted to get some money.

I can't "shake" no one for 5btc.
It was said to many times to repeat why i said but not insist him to agree paying them.
Feel free to read it.
You can call it "bribe", "milk" or any other word you like, they all doing the same, coming back for more and more.
Its been like that since forever.
I don't use excuses, actually if you read, i don't feel sorry for asking money for my time ( 0.1btc ) i do not excuse for asking that also.
I have full right to request money for my time and i don't feel sorry or excuse for asking that.

And suchnoon seems like you didn't read everything after all to state your claims right, the "victim" was first who contacted me not me ( not sure how he found my telegram ).
After you can see from the screenshots from our conversation, i were ignored for period of time before he actually answer me.
I can't know what the scammers ask from him and which words they were using, but i can be 99.99% sure from what i said before that as every single other scammers, they are coming just for more.

You taking it as "poor soul" because you don't spend your time for free right? :)
This "poor soul" were requested to pay 370$ for job which will return him 140,600$ ( correct me if i am wrong but i believe 38btc worth that).
Why would that "poor soul" will refuse paying that low for service which can't harm him or take any of his time? Isn't that even 2x lower than any lawyer to even start watching the case without doing anything? And he were offered to pay that only after successful job?
This information i am talking about will be used against the scammers to be threatened to return to the victim what's his. ( Don't get me wrong, i won't be the one threatening anyone, but i am sure the "victim" will.)
Or it will be used for future investigation.
What do you mean "if he gets his account back after paying the bribe"?
I already said few times that accepting to pay that bribe doesn't actually mean he should or will do it.
I already said that "accepting paying the bribe" could only give him time to play by their own rules, to win time, request escrow in some part of the conversation, which will bring more facts is this actually the real cloudbet or some random scammer who found his email in the scam report.
In the begin there is nothing else we can do than playing by their own rules, setting traps so we can expose their intentions and collect information.
He should ( no one can force him) pay me 0.1 btc ONLY if i really made something and successful helped for his account returning.
I am not sure how i will be able to scam him, please explain me?
I am also not sure how i can be part of extortion team? I am part of that casino team or some other team ? Please explain me..
I were and i will always be honest and the only thing from my position that i can do is, put traps to collect information so me and the "victim" could use for future investigation.
By "traps" i mean suggestion of using escrow, and why i am calling that trap were already said but i will repeat it.
By accepting paying "bribe" but asking for escrow, that will show is this real casino or just random scammer.
How? If they accept escrow, obviously that would be the casino, random scammer would not accept any coins to be put in middle because he can't unlock his account.
And if they refuse the escrow usage, it would be obvious failed scamm attempt by some random idiot, and the conversation between the "victim" and this guy should end instant.

This is just one of the few traps i had in mind.

I read your chat multiple times. You were very adamant that ginalli must pay the bribe in order to get the account unlocked. The screenshots are right here in this thread, just a few posts above. You're just blatantly lying now.

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Only one of those can be true. Which is it?

Also I don't believe for a second that "you found me" is your standard greeting for random strangers contacting you. You two clearly exchanged your telegram info e.g. via PM.

- I don't think the owner of the casino is too stupid to ask for a bribe using the casino's official email and leave such an evidence.
- I think 38B is way more than 5B, why would he ask for a bribe then!!
- he received the email then you contacted him via TG offering your help the same day, doesn't that look weird!
Your aim is the 2B, not the 5 neither the 0.1

=> I think you sent the email and asked him to pay 5B, then contacted him via TG to convince him that this always happens and he should only pay 2 or 3B and you insisted that he should give the bribe.

All of this can be confirmed if ginalli (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2536850) checks the headers of the email he received.

Could you mean explain me and everyone else, how do you feel me as "very adamant" thru letters over internet, i would love to understand a female feelings while chatting with her.
I was just "shooting" in the dark, and just made the obvious predictions which were and always will be that scammers is always coming back for more (scammers always going back to the "crime scene" which is proven by scientists).
I did nothing more than pointing out the obvious and what every scammer doing.
Actually i did nothing special so far because i didn't had time or confirmation about the payment for my time.
Yes the screenshots are there, and there is no reason for me to lie.
Actually for everything you guys blame me ( which is asking money for my time so far) i did confirm that is right.
But seems like none of you want to accept  the fact that accepting paying the bribe doesn't and should not mean that will be done.
Accepting by words could only lead do win time and more information after few more traps.
Also, all of you know that a "victim" should always run by the scammer game.
Why ? Because that's how the police works in the whole world?
Every time the victim accept the scammer rules so they could win time and information which can be used against them for future.
Sadly this game of traps end early and the scammer already know everything from the threads in the forum and cannot be tricked so easy for no on.
Catching scammers were always the same, when they ask for something, yes accept what they want.
But that doesn't mean you should do it, it means you are playing their game, wining time and collecting information.
Basic and pretty standard police strategy of catching criminals.

You are either stupid or you are here to rise your post count without reading.
- He contacted me, i didn't. He added me in telegram, not me.
- I never said that the person who send him email were person from the casino, actually i stated few times that should be cleared with the offer with "escrow" trap, but seems like you were to busy to be excited and didn't read the thread.
- I didn't contact anyone once again, he contacted me.

All of this can be confirmed for sure, i already requested the headers of the email he received hours ago.
Why would i do this if i were the one doing this?
Why no one is using his brain...


Edit: Suchmoon, i contacted him via pm without sharing my telegram asking him how to contact him.
The interesting part is that he added me in telegram without asking for my telegram or know it.
That's why i claim that he added me and not me, but i were the first one who contacted him regarding the problem.
So both is true.
And no, i didn't share my telegram with this guy ever which can be super easy proved from my inbox.

How the fuck can you type so much garbage in a few minutes?

I feel like my IQ drops a point after reading a post of yours. Thank you for convincing me that marlboroza was right.

you repeatedly encouraged him to pay the bribe, which makes everybody and their grandmother thinks that you have a direct interest in that bribe being paid.
you also never bothered mentioning the use of escrow to him , i agree with suchmoon, no matter how i read your conversation, the logic leads to my above analysis.

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however I honestly don't think that is a solid evidence of you being a part of the scammers team or the scammer himself, i am not sure how other members based their feedback on,i don't think solid evidence is needed to many members and that's accepted, being shady is enough to get tagged for these days , given the amount of scammers online.

as for the evidence, i think we still have to hear from the casino, if it's proven that they were actually the once who send him the email , and asked him for the bribe and that your advice of paying 2 btc was based on a free advice that you had no interest in, then maybe  the DT members should give you the benefit the of doubt and reconsider their rating.

 should the other guys keep their feedback and happens that you are really a honest person, this should be a lesson learned, never ask someone to pay bribe nor answer to extortion attempts.


Warning - while you were typing 5 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.  :o

If you asking garbage questions, then my answers are garbage for you.
I type answers to questions, and if you feel your questions and other people questions as garbage, then what i could say more...
If you don't want to receive "garbage" questions, don't ask "garbage" questions.
Firstly you ask something, and when you get answers you calling it "garbage".
bitcointalk DT members - 2019.

---

Of course i will repeatedly encouraged him to pay the bribe? How i would be able to collect information and put them traps if we don't continue playing their game?
How you even plan to continue conversation when they are milking for money ?
Why you think he will do it for real just because some random idiot over internet telling him this?
He didn't continue the conversation with me so i could explain him what we will do to collect information, simple as that.
I never bothered to mentioning to use escrow to him because of his lack of interest and the ignorance to my messages ?
Or i should spam him till he return back a message to me?
He clearly didn't show any intention to pay 0.1btc to receive 38btc which is the weird part.
Also i think same as some of the people who posted here thats not real admin of that casino.
Why would they contact him asking for 5btc or any amount consider they already have 38btc in hold ?
I were just going to expose a random idiot who would block him or me after the traps were there.

There is no rules in helping mate, i can tell him to pay bribe to collect information and expose them, tell him to pay not force him.
He could only tell em that he would pay but not do it, if he were smart enough to help himself and collect information in first place.
As i already stated above, this is standard procedure against fraudsters and criminals.
You always go by their own rules to win time and collect information.
Well things are different in the end.


[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

I think i am done with this case, said what i had to say, the rest is on you and the guys who tagged you, and a word of advice, use more spacing, leave an empty line between each of your lines as needed and most importantly type less, mean more.

The format you use is very disturbing to be honest, if you want your words to be read, make them readable so that you can defend yourself.

marlboroza, sorry for delaying my answers to you but as you can see other people question things.
Lets get to the chat where you draw texts.

- they are looking for bribe ( of course they do, all scammers coming back to milk for more, you can call it whatever you like)
- they doing this to many big players ( yes all the scamming platforms, casinos and such trying to milk more of their victims, that's not something that people don't know)
- you know they won't turn back the funds if you don't pay them bribe, that's old tactic. (yes they will claim till the end you will receive your account only if you pay that money, it would be weird if they claim other)
- who contacted you ( standard question? )
- manager? ceo? owner? ( finally i got it after the 3rd guess, im not so bad as you claiming)
- did he verify his self did he send you email or something ( standard question to make sure he know who contacted him)
- what's the email, what's the email he used to give you his telegram? ( sadly i didn't check in that time their public email from thread, that's why i was not able to confirm that's email used from some of their team)
- alright so there is solution (there is always hope for solution)
- anyway, if i help you get the account back will you pay me 0.1 btc? (yeah i respect my time, sorry...)
- alright then listen me (ok)
- don't gift them those money for free ( which idiot will let 38btc just go away like that? of course i will give him courage)
- go tell this guy you don't have 5btc ( standard start for negotiation. wining time is the first and most important thing)
-  they locked your account for money ( obviously? )
- and start with lower, but as everyone else, if you don't give them money, they wont give your account back ( of course he should start paying by their rules or at least make them think like that)
- they always lock accounts for  money ( well, lock, steal, hold or whatever you like to call it, the scamming platforms doing it for money)
- check the forum, you will see that casinos doing that to many people, in the end you have no other option than deal with them if you want to have your stuff back ( well, actually no one else than them have his account in hold right? no matter what in the end he should always talk, deal or do anything with them because they are the holders of the keys)

- and i really suggest you to talk with this person (of course! how he could gather and collect information by other way? how he would win time and keep the scammer in chat and in believes he's under control?)
- look i dont want your money ( finally i realized he's not interested paying me 0.1btc for my help and i realized the time wasting here)
- you need to at least talk with them ( for sure he needs, if he have brain to win time, collect information and everything, at least without my help, he should try to help himself right?)


mikeywith, the bad part is i should defend my self for trying to do the right thing :D
because no one understand standard police strategy of catching/exposing scammers/fraudsters, i should explain something that all scam busters should know.

Lying again, you never adviced him to use an escrow.

Again for those who didn't read :)
I contacted the guy over pm asking him for his telegram.
Meanwhile before he even answer me, he added me in telegram.
So i contacted him first via pm without sharing my telegram.
And he contacted me first in telegram without having it from me.

khaled0111 you are retarded for sure... where you see me saying i stated usage of escrow to him ?
or you like to quote things which being said to someone else not claiming to be said to the "victim"?
use your "quotes" right to realize to who and where i said that.
but you are to busy to play "interested" instead of reading the thread and follow the conversation :)
please, stop being excited and follow the conversation so you don't get confused :D

It's impossible to follow the thread when you're making such a mess of it, not to mention that the stuff you're saying here seems to be very different from what you told ginalli on telegram.

It doesn't make any sense that you had this great plan to expose the scammers and never mentioned it to ginalli. You should have started with that - "hey, let's try to string these scammers along". Instead you made yourself sound like a scammer. The more you post here the less I believe you and it wasn't a lot to begin with.

That's because


And to anyone who questions my tag on Rambotnic, it's not for suspicion of him being in on the scam; it's for the part I've bolded.  It's pretty clear to me that he's still manufacturing excuses as to why he did what he did, trying to sound plausible--and when that fails, he goes on the attack or plays the victim card.  That's all I have to say about this for now.  I'd love to see others chime in on this, DT or not.

Sorry, i never sounded like scammer.
I might sound like a person who wanted to earn money from the situation, but not as scammer
TP, you are liar and abuser. You called me scammer for no reason which is blatant lie.
You tagging me because i wanted to make money of someone from situation like any lawyer won't make the same.
You letting people selling illegal stuff on this forum because the forum rules allowing it but not letting someone to earn money honestly.
I am not here to defend myself because i never did anything wrong, i am here to explain people who don't understand why i wanted to earn 0.1btc.
Also now i am facing the DT abuse from everywhere

With your attitude and actions, you guys making the legit and normal people to start using the forum like those people who violate rules but no one touching them.

You're not a lawyer or a victim--you're a parasitic, opportunistic scumbag and have been appropriately tagged.  As for the bolded part, I have no clue what you're talking about.  You tried to take advantage of someone who was in the process of getting scammed and somehow I'm the bad guy in all of this.  You need a reality check.

You are liar, trust abuser and a scammer.
I can be lawyer if i want, this is internet.  And especially when there is no way of me harming the people i am trying to help, i can be anything i want to.
You are trust abusing scumbag and liar calling me scammer.
Taking advantage of someone who was in process of getting scammed?
You are blatant retard who don't understand simple tactic which the police using since 200 years to catch fraudsters and scammers.
You need a reality check because you are virtual moron who actually doing nothing for the people on this forum but only circle of people.
You lying, abusing and spreading lies, you are the very worst person on this forum right after TMAN and owlcatz.
Not in last place, you courage people to buy accounts on this forum by ruining their legal way of making money.
We need less people like you on this forum but sadly someone let you in the DT.
But don't worry, things will never be the same, life is circle.
Someday karma will come after you, and your lies and abuse will hit you worse than you did to everyone around.

@Rambotnic,

Putting aside the whole "if I help, you pay me 0.1 BTC" thing for a moment, I still don't follow your "You need to pay a bribe to get back money that has already been stolen" logic.

Let us assume that <InsertOnlineCasino> is a scam, and is withholding 38 BTC of a players money... They have FULL control over this money, it is effectively already theirs. So, that being the case, why on earth would they suddenly give it back if you give them another 5 BTC? If you do that, then they'll have 43 BTC of your money and what do you have? The word of "extortionists" that they'll unlock your account? ::)

Apparently Gino understands this... "But I am not a retard to send them more coins"... I don't understand why you don't? ???

At best, your efforts with this user amounted to REALLY bad advice.
At worst, it could be perceived that you were actively encouraging the user to pay even more money to scammers.

I would hope that your intentions were genuine... and that you sincerely thought you were helping... but sometimes the best thing you can do to help, is stay out of the way.

Yet another guy who don't even care to read but repeat old stuff...
The idea of the "victim" was to confirm he would pay, not to do it.
He were so "interested" to take his 38btc back just for 0.1btc help, he didn't even wanted to continue the conversation and understand the strategy.
How the fuck i would know will they turn back the account, and even if they don't, then what profit this would bring me? It will waste my time obviously.
You understand nothing, why you trying to with closed eyes and ignorance?

Which gambling site asked for bribe? Provide few examples.

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This is blatant lie. Stop twisting things.
You can't. You can trick people to believe you that you are lawyer, but if you are not lawyer - you are not lawyer.
Actually, this is not correct. You sound exactly like one.

Why it should be gambling site? I consider scammers as scammers, no matter they are site, platform, persons.
All of them coming to milk more. You can call it bribe, mlk, scam more, or whatever suits you.
Blatant lie? Why you denying something you don't have enough brain to understand or use as strategy?
You calling the most old police tactic to defraud fraudsters and scammers a lie?
I really suggest you using google, its free and educating.
You will realize how most of the nigerian scammers were caught so far.
Trick people to believe i am lawyer? I don't need to trick anyone, in the end im getting paid only after complete job and only after he wants, i cannot force him even after i successfully complete the "job".
But yeah, i know how scammers operate so i could easy trick them to share information.
I sound like one ? Point me a single person lied or scammed by me.
I can't stop laugh at your bullshit :D
Every single person who deal with me here were suggested in first place to use escrow, in 99.99% of the cases even i cover the escrow fees.
If i wanted to scam people, i will simply open threads like every single scammer in the digital goods section with locked thread and autobuy link and never use escrow.
Do not judge people if you don't have enough IQ to understand what they are doing.
Speaking or writing better in English doesn't make you smarter than others and we both know it.

Thanks for wall of text  ::)
You are avoiding question which is very important for conversation between you and "victim". So, lets get back to it:

https://i.imgur.com/6CMBR6x.png
https://i.imgur.com/6CMBR6x.png
Examples, please.

Examples of how scammers coming back to milk for more?
Come in the next section in trading discussion, you will find pages of examples.

Not scammers. All casinos. Show us examples of each and every casino doing this.

https://meem.link/i/a/qZEGA0.jpg
Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

The word "all" could have been a very poor choice of words , i'd let it pass and ask for "some". tho it won't make much difference .

I am reading.

You keep claiming that he didn't want to pay, but as I showed in your other thread... looking at the chatlogs he said THREE times that he would pay (and pay as much as 3 BTC! :o)... (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105765.msg49590001#msg49590001) but as soon as he said he wouldn't pay any more coins to the scammers,  all you did was say "I don't know what to say".

This is the part that I do not understand -> He said he would pay you... So why did you not tell him the full plan (ie. pretend that he would pay scammers, use escrow etc)? ???


My eyes are very much open... That is why I do not accuse, but I ask questions. So, can you please answer my question above?

Your question already have answer.
Feel free to scroll and read.
If the OP censorship and deleted my post feel free to read here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105765.0

I've read this entire thread. I even double checked to make sure I hadn't missed anything. You're avoiding answering my question, which makes me think you don't have an answer to it.

You make multiple claims that he didn't want to pay... when the chatlogs clearly show he said he would... do you deny this?

If so, do you have any further chatlogs that show he changed his mind and would not pay? ???

Im not avoiding your question, your question already had answer to different person.
His ignorance and less interest of getting my services to pay me after success is enough proof.

All you keep stating is in direct opposition to what the chat logs show. You assert that "you didn't tell him the full plan because he wouldn't pay for your services". The chatlogs indicate that this assertion is false.

Do you have any evidence that suggests he did not want to pay you? ???

Seems like you are another blind ignorant.
Alright, i will repeat myself.
I didn't tell him the full plan because our conversation didn't continue because of lack interest of him.
I bet 10$ there is something wrong with this guy and the way he say the things are not as they are.
Otherwise he would accept my offer which will cost him no time and money if i don't do anything.
Waiting for another ignorant who can't read to ask me the same questions.
Ignorance and not accepting something that will cost you nothing is enough evidence.
I am not here to protect myself.
I don't have to because i did nothing wrong.
The whole DT mafia will end soon or later :)
Because they don't accept way of doing service which will not harm anyone doesn't mean it is something bad.
Period.

Ok, well personal insults aside... In my opinion, you don't seem to be able to back up your claims.

I can see now, that after several attempts, this is going around in circles and there is no point asking you for any further evidence to substantiate the claims you are making... as you'll just call me ignorant, accuse me of not reading and then make the same claims again and still not provide any evidence to support them. :-\

---

To anyone else following this thread, this is my summary of findings:

- Rambotnic claims he had a more detailed plan involving tricking scammers into revealing detail and/or using escrow
- Rambotnic claims "Gino" had "lack of interest" in paying him 0.1 btc for his services
- Rambotnic has provided no demonstrable proof of any "lack of interest" on behalf of "Gino".
- Chatlogs actually show "Gino" stated that he was willing to pay Rambotnic for help on three separate occasions (and up to as much as 3 BTC for said services).
- Rambotnic told "Gino" he should talk to the "scammers" and offer to pay BTC to unlock account (but less than 5 BTC wanted)
- Gino said he wouldn't pay the "scammers" any more money
- Rambotnic never told "Gino" of his detailed plan of tricking scammers into revealing details or using Escrow.


NOTE: I make no judgement on the intentions of either Rambotnic or "Gino". I'm just stating facts based on the evidence provided.