Rambotic - need opinion from community

[marlboroza]

So, long story short, account Rambotic posted this conversation between him and account ginalli (who started scam accusation against Cloudbet):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105084.msg49572742#msg49572742

Do not put words from my name, let me screenshot the whole conversation between me and you.
Screens from our conversation:
http://prntscr.com/mg60pw
http://prntscr.com/mg60v8
http://prntscr.com/mg60yk
http://prntscr.com/mg6122
http://prntscr.com/mg616f
http://prntscr.com/mg61cf
http://prntscr.com/mg61fu

Quoted for reference and archived here http://archive.is/qVLrk

Thanks, lets make this things clear.
I will add this also as proof when i did contact the guy from my PM's -> http://prntscr.com/mg6k0f  ( February 02, 2019, 07:44:05 PM )
And when he contacted me over telegram -> http://prntscr.com/mg6k7k ( February 02, 2019, 10:10 PM)
From what i can see, he received email from the scammer here -> https://imgur.com/a/eu89OAQ ( February 02, 2019, 02:33:03)

Lets match the timestamp.
OP should also verify his GMT time so we can match the timing.

I tagged account, but I would also like to hear opinions.
Also, cryptohunter is welcome to post her opinion as long as she will be able go through all this and stay on topic.

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[Rambotnic]

The opinion is - read more.
Yes i suggested him to pay bribe of course.
If that's his only chance to turn his loss back from the scammers that should be done.
Bribe can be put in escrow so they cannot scam him twice.
And yes it is known tactics from scammers to ask people for money upfront, like i said to him.
After he give me more information about the case, i clearly told him to not pay them a single cent, because it was obvious scam.
But still i will never ever change my mind that bribe can be paid to turn back his losses.
If any amount be in escrow in return of unlocking his account, that's at least solution with minimum loss to him instead of losing everything.
Make sure you read everything with the time stamps and how the conversation goes.

Edit: Full conversation between me and the guy is posted by me public, i have nothing to hide.
Also i posted my pm, posted my offer to him to help in exchange for money that should be paid AFTER if i manage to help him and not upfront.
I don't see anything wrong to ask money for service (help) especially when i clearly stated he should pay me if the things work.
Also i don't see anything wrong for him paying bribe if that will help his case.
Everyone with brain will chose to pay little bit and taking his loses back.
If the offer were legit, the guy could always suggest escrow use for the bribe so the things can't go wrong.
When you dealing with scammers, you should be always open to suggestions but using your brain also.
Sending payments without security is not acceptable.

[Lauda]

-snip-

Yuck. Don't privately suggest anything that even remotely looks like a bribe or anything else that is illegal.

-snip-
And yes it is known tactics from scammers to ask people for money upfront, like i said to him.

There is absolutely no proof that:
1) The victim's case is valid.
2) The money request was made by them (email sender field is relatively trivial to spoof).
Therefore, there is no proof that they are scammers either. Avoid making sudden decisions when trying to be a vigilante even if you have the sincerest intentions. One doesn't really learn this until they get burned by it.

[suchmoon]

Yes i suggested him to pay bribe of course.
If that's his only chance to turn his loss back from the scammers that should be done.

If they're scammers why would they return the money after they get more money? They could just as easily pay part of the withdrawal and keep the rest if that was the goal. Your "advice" makes no sense and your statement that all casinos do it is a flat-out lie.

I tagged account, but I would also like to hear opinions.

Your rating is factual and appropriate. Rambotnic behavior could be interpreted as trying too hard to earn a reward from the allegedly scammed person, but given past questionable behavior I think the benefit of the doubt has been exhausted by now.

[Rambotnic]

-snip-

Yuck. Don't privately suggest anything that even remotely looks like a bribe or anything else that is illegal.

-snip-
And yes it is known tactics from scammers to ask people for money upfront, like i said to him.

There is absolutely no proof that:
1) The victim's case is valid.
2) The money request was made by them (email sender field is relatively trivial to spoof).
Therefore, there is no proof that they are scammers either. Avoid making sudden decisions when trying to be a vigilante even if you have the sincerest intentions. One doesn't really learn this until they get burned by it.

Then give us your best suggestion how he can solve this problem?

And why i am not allowed to suggest people privately ? If bribe is his only way to turn his money back, why would he pass that ?
There is million ways of him paying that bribe in safe way including escrow service so they could not scam him twice.
If that's a way to turn back 38 stolen bitcoins from them, why would someone refuse paying any small amount in exchange to return that large amount ?
For me it makes no sense to refuse paying little bit in exchange to take the huge loss back.

1) The victim's case is valid for sure i never said it is not. That doesn't change the fact someone contacted him asking for money.
2) Any money request is another act of scam, but there is smart way to either avoid this or at least take the advantage of the situation by paying small amount by using safe service such an escrow to turn back huge loss.

All i were trying to do is help the user to earn 0.1btc
Coins that i ask AFTER i help him out and not before that.

[marlboroza]

Guy approach to account ginalli and asked them 5btc to restore his account. You strongly suggested that they should pay 1-2 bitcoin. I found whole private conversation very strange.

Read carefully:

https://imgur.com/a/btwk1SM

[The Sceptical Chymist]

After he give me more information about the case, i clearly told him to not pay them a single cent, because it was obvious scam.
<snip>
Also i posted my pm, posted my offer to him to help in exchange for money that should be paid AFTER if i manage to help him and not upfront.
<snip>

All I'm reading is you suggesting that the guy bargain with the casino to lower the 5BTC amount of extortion.  It's not a bribe. One of your last quotes is "you have no other option than deal with them if you want to have your stuff back".  That is indeed suggesting he pay the extortionists, perhaps not the full amount but at least a partial payment.

And you want 0.1BTC for helping him get his account back?  How did you plan on doing that and how was he supposed to know you were responsible for him getting it back?  You're clearly trying to make a profit for yourself off of someone else's dilemma.

[suchmoon]

And believe me, i am pretty sure he will agree paying bribe if he will receive his 38back.
Using escrow for that bribe is the best solution, and if that was me, i was going to do just the same.

As far as I can see you never mentioned escrow in that chat. Also - you lied that all casinos do it to big players.

And why would an allegedly scammy casino release 38 BTC after getting a 5 BTC "bribe"? They could just pay out 33 BTC if that was the plan. None of it makes any sense whatsoever. At best you're very very dumb if you truly believe what you're saying. Or you're trying to shake down ginalli by pretending that you know what you're talking about.

[marlboroza]

@Rambotic I will delete every post in row and every post where you repeated things you have already said above. Unless you have anything new to add to this conversation don't post at all.

~

Whole thing is very strange.

[Rambotnic]

And believe me, i am pretty sure he will agree paying bribe if he will receive his 38back.
Using escrow for that bribe is the best solution, and if that was me, i was going to do just the same.

As far as I can see you never mentioned escrow in that chat. Also - you lied that all casinos do it to big players.

And why would an allegedly scammy casino release 38 BTC after getting a 5 BTC "bribe"? They could just pay out 33 BTC if that was the plan. None of it makes any sense whatsoever. At best you're very very dumb if you truly believe what you're saying. Or you're trying to shake down ginalli by pretending that you know what you're talking about.

We never continue our conversation and i never had agreement from his side paying me 0.1 after my help.

I have no idea why would an allegedly scammy casino release 38btc after getting 1-3-5-15 btc "bribe".
All i can do is predict and ask questions to find solution
If you think i am dumb for what i am saying, then you are dumb for not accepting other view points and counting your own only.
Why would be dumb to pay what they want to make your loss less?
Why would be dumb to use escrow paying that "bribe" so he can't be scammed again?
Accepting the "bribe" will only help no matter they accept it with escrow or refuse it because of the escrow offer.
Already said why accepting the bribe will be the best idea.
It will either expose them as blackmailers if they accept to receive bribe with escrow service, or will expose them for second scam attempt.
Accepting paying bribe is not the same as paying it.
It can be used to clear the situation and understand more about the scammers intentions.
Think big not small.

[marlboroza]

We never continue our conversation

I don't think it was important for you to continue that conversation, also, I might be wrong.

[Rambotnic]

We never continue our conversation

I don't think it was important for you to continue that conversation, also, I might be wrong.

If it was not important for me to earn 0.1btc i would never suggest it.
I did this for money, money which i request after i help.
I were and im still more than interested to continue the conversation with him and trying to earn that 0.1 btc by legal way.
I will repeat words of mine from another thread:

" Your logic is just the same like "A lawyer saw a person in real bind and looked to make some money for his self for helping him"
Yes i am not a lawyer but same as the lawyer i do spend my time trying to solve his problem by the best way for him.
By your logic, lawyers should not exists because they take advantage of people in trouble to help them in exchange of money...
And actually the lawyers asking money upfront to start a case, i did ask money after the case is closed with happy end. "

Edit: I still stand behind my words he should accepted (in words) paying that bribe so he could see where the situation will go to expose their real intentions.
There is many ways to expose them, and that's a really smart one.

*As i stated months ago with TMAN, i was policeman in real life and i do have experience with scammers.
I do know how they work, i do know how they think.
Saying is not like doing it, at least you can expose their intentions and know what exactly is going on.
By doing anything wrong, i would not earn the requested 0.1 from me, why the hell i would do this? It makes no sense...

[coinlocket$]

Is Rambotic working for cloudbet?

How he can ask to fix a problem for 0.1 btc if he is not working with them

The cloudlet team is very active on the forum and they do a lot of free things for the community here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=71.0, but today is Sunday so probably they are off and we will get their point of view on the situation tomorrow.

This seems an attempt to scam BUT, as said before tomorrow probably the cloudbet team will explain this situation too.

I've helped several people as I could here on forum and I never asked one Satoshi to help them.

[Rambotnic]

Is Rambotic working for cloudbet?

How he can ask to fix a problem for 0.1 btc if he is not working with them

The cloudlet team is very active on the forum and they do a lot of free things for the community here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=71.0, but today is Sunday so probably they are off and we will get their point of view on the situation tomorrow.

This seems an attempt to scam BUT, as said before tomorrow probably the cloudbet team will explain this situation too.

I do not work for cloudbet.
How could a laywer ask for money to fix a problem with company if he's not working with them ?
With knowledge, tactics and brain.
And most likely he were never being in contact with real cloudbet but some scammer who see his email from the scam report and send him email requesting him to add random telegram.
The point of everything is for start to know is he talking with the real cloudbet or random scammer.
By accepting paying "bribe" he will understand many things are they real or not.
People should go always by the rules of those guys only in words to realize what is going on.
By that way he could understand what is real what is fake and what is going on.
This tactics are old like the sun.

You guys judging me because i have different view point and tactics than you? Is that true?
Because my tactics and different view point cannot harm the guy at all but only can help.
If you have different view and tactic than mine, then share it and lets do the right thing.
But tagging me because i have different view and way to do things is more than absurd.
Also tagging me because im asking money for help.
People selling carded paypals/ stolen cards and super illegal things on this forum and none of them get in trouble, but when someone want to help other person and asking money for that is it problem ?
I don't really understand this.
If you don't accept my ways, you can just tell me that's not right because that and that, by the same way i explain why i think my way is right.
Why should all of you guys need to abuse your powers instead of taking to people to understand their view point and if its not right just to explain them why?
Because that kind of over reacts the forum is almost dead.
Only 200-300 people from all the forum talking in meta, exchanging merits and being active, the market sections are dead, full with spam with unhandled reports, and you judging person who is trying to do the things better only because you don't accept his way ?
Be more polite to people, not to me specially but to everyone.
That's why we are here, to negotiate, and talk to each other how is right and how is not.

[marlboroza]

And most likely he were never being in contact with real cloudbet but some scammer who see his email from the scam report and send him email requesting him to add random telegram.

So you suggested them to pay 1-2BTC, even knowing there is very very high chance this is..."some scammer"?

Actually, it is strange to say this after all. After this:

i contacted the OP (ginalli) to ask him few questions (of course not private) and seems like cloudbet is asking for bribe (cash under the table) to unlock his account from what he says.
correct me if i am wrong but we seen that before..
casinos locking people account to milk money from the big players, and in the end after the big noise, they always do that and milk their players.
this is classic case and not something new...
sadly the amount is big this time

If you don't mind sharing where you have seen this before?

The point of everything is for start to know is he talking with the real cloudbet or random scammer.

That is not what happened. This happened:

https://imgur.com/a/btwk1SM

[suchmoon]

Why would be dumb to pay what they want to make your loss less?

Because the casino already has the player's money. They can keep or take all of it or part of it, depending on their or player's level of scamminess, which you have zero influence over.

There are some possible scenarios - such as the player lying, or the player talking to a scammer and not the real casino, or the casino being a scam - none of which would necessitate paying for the withdrawal.

It's funny how you post walls of text without addressing basic facts. Do all casinos do this to big players?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

So you suggested them to pay 1-2BTC, even knowing there is very very high chance this is..."some scammer"?

Yeah, at this point I don't think it's clear that that was even cloudbet's account that requested the 5BTC.  If it is, please direct me to that info.  People are saying to wait until tomorrow for cloudbet to respond to this--I assume there are no reps available on the weekend or whatever.  If it turns out that it was them, they're sure to get tons of red.

That said, if it's doubtful that the identity of the extortionist is known with certainty, making a suggestion to bargain with them and pay a smaller amount (and some to Rambotnic) is horrible advice if not completely scammy on Rambotnic's part.  We'll see what cloudbet has to say about it, I guess.

[Rambotnic]

Why would be dumb to pay what they want to make your loss less?

Because the casino already has the player's money. They can keep or take all of it or part of it, depending on their or player's level of scamminess, which you have zero influence over.

There are some possible scenarios - such as the player lying, or the player talking to a scammer and not the real casino, or the casino being a scam - none of which would necessitate paying for the withdrawal.

It's funny how you post walls of text without addressing basic facts. Do all casinos do this to big players?

We all have influence and it is called "questions".
We can all start asking questions and questions which will put them in situation that they will either lie or expose their real intentions.
I do have my tactics and strategy how to expose what is going on.
In first place was he even really contacted from real person from that casino or just a scammer.

In most scenarios i will waste my time and not earn any money, but at least i will try.
And yes i will suggest him playing by their rules only in words but not in acts.
That's how we will actually understand who is lying, who is saying the truth and what is going on.
In first place we all should not over react and realize saying is not like acting.
I can suggest him asking and saying many things that will help us to realize the truth.
Because like you said above, maybe even the player may be the cheater.

Yes, all scamming casinos do this to their big players.
Please, do not miss the "scamming" before the casinos.
A real legal operating casinos will never do that.
But based on the report from this guy, this is scamming casino.
Why? Because the facts with the previous 300btc claim and now this 38 claim.
For start we can count them as scamming casino and yes all scammers no matter they are casino or something else, they trying to milk/scam more and more.
I know what i am saying and i know what i am doing.
If you get it wrong please share with me what i am doing wrong and how the person can be harmed by my strategy.
My only "bad" intentions was to earn money from him AFTER helping him, which will actually cost him 10x less than hiring lawyer and start case if i success.

TP, i don't understand how my suggestion is scamy consider i never ask for money upfront?
Also you guys asking me why i keep repeating the same and the same again.
Why should i keep repeating that telling the guy to say something is not the same as doing it.
Everything is just to expose their intentions and also to see is this real person from couldbet or not.
You guys really judge for different opinion and without actual facts.
I did nothing wrong, and my strategy could not harm the guy at all but only can give us more information about the case.

[coinlocket$]

People are saying to wait until tomorrow for cloudbet to respond to this--I assume there are no reps available on the weekend or whatever.  If it turns out that it was them, they're sure to get tons of red.

Yes, this is my supposition because as we can see here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=154563;sa=showPosts;start=20, he has no posts today or yesterday, on the 25th and 26th of January and on 19th and 20th of January, so I think they are not active here on weekends.

[suchmoon]

Yes, all scamming casinos do this to their big players.
Please, do not miss the "scamming" before the casinos.

I didn't miss anything. You made it up after the fact, just like your tale about escrow or this being some sort of shrewd plan to expose scammers.


Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image


Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image