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Title: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: yahoo62278 on February 28, 2019, 09:51:49 PM The question is pretty simple with a couple added voting options in case users want to add a little fun. Whatever your vote is(even if you chose 1 of the 2 fun options), please back up your opinion with reasons as to why 1 way or the other.
This poll has been created due to Stake.com Signature campaign (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5110093.0). I believe that since the website is using the bitcointalk platform to advertise their website, that all information regarding the campaign should be made public. This will help the reporters to keep an eye on participants applying for and being accepted into signature campaigns. I'm not gonna make a super huge thread about the topic. The question is posted and your opinions are needed. ***EDIT*** It appears Stake has added a spreadsheet for all to see within the last hour. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OGQBpBWDy_2N6flWRmeQ3oJbxSvDXD_rpkbPNMVHo7Q/edit#gid=1373140560 Here is the sheet in case anyone is interested. I would still like to hear and read community opinions on this matter. Remember, please back up your vote. This is a question about all campaigns, not just the 1 mentioned. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: HCP on February 28, 2019, 09:59:37 PM I don't understand why it would need to be public? ???
If you see spam, regardless of whether or not there is a sig attached... simply click the "report to moderator" link and report the post. I don't understand why having access to a spreadsheet would make any difference? Is it because the self-styled "forum police" want to be able to find all the users of any given campaign easily so they can go and check their post quality? Personally, unless I actually see shitposting/spamming in the boards/threads that I am looking at because I actually want to be reading that board/thread, I don't care. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: yahoo62278 on February 28, 2019, 10:08:07 PM I don't understand why it would need to be public? ??? If you see spam, regardless of whether or not there is a sig attached... simply click the "report to moderator" link and report the post. I don't understand why having access to a spreadsheet would make any difference? Is it because the self-styled "forum police" want to be able to find all the users of any given campaign easily so they can go and check their post quality? Personally, unless I actually see shitposting/spamming in the boards/threads that I am looking at because I actually want to be reading that board/thread, I don't care. Excellent response and proof that this poll is a good idea. Opinions are gonna vary. Keep the responses coming guys. It's not forum policy that spreadsheets be public, but depending on community response it might be an "unofficial rule" or it might not. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: harizen on February 28, 2019, 10:16:44 PM Doesn't matter for me if it's public or private but in the first place, why spreadsheets should be in private? There are some cases in the past wherein some generous people here caught multiple accounts owned by a same person joining and abusing various campaigns and that work were made quiet easy because of those public spreadsheets as reference. That's a big help to the manager itself.
The sheet is a simple list of all the participants, their posting stats per week ,payments etc. How come that info should be private? What's the risks of having a public spreadsheet? What's are those things that must be hidden? Can someone enlightened us here or those managers itself that choose to hide it? Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: coinlocket$ on February 28, 2019, 10:25:09 PM In a crypto world where everything is verificable on the chain, I don't see the reason to keep the spreadsheet related to bitcoin signature private.
A public spreadsheet it's only a plus for the community, an Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: yahoo62278 on February 28, 2019, 10:26:46 PM In a crypto world where everything is public on the chain, I don't see the reason to keep the spreadsheet related to bitcoin signature private. Yes and no, HCP was correct when he said, "If you see spam, regardless of whether or not there is a sig attached... simply click the "report to moderator" link and report the post." The bigger thing I think having a public spreadsheet is for keeping an eye on the manager.A public spreadsheet it's only a plus for the community, a Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: The Cryptovator on February 28, 2019, 10:34:09 PM Voted on Yes,
Explanation: Since signature campaign directly promoting on forum the spreadsheet should be public. There is two reason from my side, 1. Reporters could directly report if any managers encourage spam, no need to visit all over forum. 2. Others users will able to see that managers accepting right person and transparency of campaign management. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: LTU_btc on February 28, 2019, 11:26:01 PM I don't think that really matters. For transparency it's good to have public spreadsheets. It helps to find abusers and spammers easier. But I see nothing wrong when company decide not to have public spreadsheet. There is no rule which would force to keep this information in public. If campaign is managed professionally, people who don't participate in campaign won't find nothing useful and interesting in these documents. For example, I'm not interested see post count, payments and Bitcoin addresses of Chipmixer campaign participants.
Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Patatas on February 28, 2019, 11:40:27 PM Went with the "Who Cares" option. I kinda disagreed with this earlier considering the Stake's campaign sheet was not public and the campaign was managed through telegram but actually, it doesn't really matter the sheet is public or private as long as the campaign isn't promoting spam on the forum. I wouldn't want to know how much a member got paid last week for his signature campaign. The quality of the campaign is evident from its posters anyway.
Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: coinlocket$ on March 01, 2019, 12:06:20 AM In a crypto world where everything is public on the chain, I don't see the reason to keep the spreadsheet related to bitcoin signature private. Yes and no, HCP was correct when he said, "If you see spam, regardless of whether or not there is a sig attached... simply click the "report to moderator" link and report the post." The bigger thing I think having a public spreadsheet is for keeping an eye on the manager.A public spreadsheet it's only a plus for the community, a I'm not sure about it. What do you mean? Do you mean look if a manager is bad on managing or if a manager let cheaters on campaigns? I think the main reason to get the public spreadsheet is to spot cheaters. The second reason is to verify if a manager is good or not (looking for cheaters/spammer/whatever on the spreadsheet) but we are all humans and everyone can't control everything, keep also in mind on the 99% of campaigns we will have abusers on them and they are pretty easy to find if the spreadsheet is open. Edit, for example, your spreadsheets are open and I've probably already found one RING of high-rank members on your signature campaigns. (if you want I will post the RING 2morrow now it's late here) (forgot to say I voted YES) Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Quickseller on March 01, 2019, 12:26:41 AM I am not a fan of regulating companies in telling them how to run their business. They can run it as they see fit, and if they wish to make their private information public they can, and if they don't they shouldn't be forced to.
Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: shasan on March 01, 2019, 01:10:19 AM The spreadsheet must be public so that anyone can trace who has been accepted and who have not been. Also from the spreadsheet, there is a possible chance to detect scammer for joining the signature campaign with alter accounts.
Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: hacker1001101001 on March 01, 2019, 05:14:32 AM I vote NO
I think it is not that important to make the signature campaign spreadsheet public as the campaign totally depends on the campaign manager, the project they are promoting and the participants of the Campaign which makes it of no use to others basically. I would like to list some of the advantages of keeping the signature campaign spreadsheet private. 1. Avoids duplicate spamming of any type in the campaign. 2. Reduces the scam attempts of non participants towards the campaign. 3. Rewards or the funds distributed remains totally private, which is advantageous to some projects and participants too. 4. Non participants could be avoided to engage in the working as they can spread FUDS. 5. Total control remains in the hand of the manager towards the accepting of participants to distribution of rewards and that's what a manager is appointed for. 6. Some of the issue about the camping can be solved without making a bubble out of it. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: joniboini on March 01, 2019, 05:41:32 AM 2. Reduces the scam attempts of non participants towards the campaign. Can you elaborate more? How can somebody, using the information from the signature spreadsheet, do a scam attacks? What's the risks of having a public spreadsheet? What's are those things that must be hidden? Can someone enlightened us here or those managers itself that choose to hide it? The public can judge whether the manager is really capable of counting post/judging quality post or not. For example, I know one or two campaign managers who don't give a damn for post quality because they keep counting the stake of sig spammer. But hey, if they're fine with paying spammer, what can we do. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: nutildah on March 01, 2019, 06:12:57 AM It appears Stake has added a spreadsheet for all to see within the last hour. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OGQBpBWDy_2N6flWRmeQ3oJbxSvDXD_rpkbPNMVHo7Q/edit#gid=1373140560 What's weird is this spreadsheet doesn't include all the participants. Or if it does, that means some people are wearing their signature and avatar for no reason: I'm a coinomi user since 2017 and got no problem with that, so far. My biggest fund there was around $5k and didn't worry about hacking issue since I have a passphrase. But your story is different from mine since you imported your passphrase from exodus wallet and maybe someone had spotted this since you really have decent amount. I'm not a techy person so I can't say anything, I just feel sorry for your money that seems no getting back. And if there will further update what coinomi has to say please keep us posted here. You probably didn't read my post very well. Coinomi's wallet simply takes your passphrase and spell checks it with a remote server! Sort of since it's lengthy, lol. Well I really thought that it's exodus the importing that triggered everything, pardon me on that. So earlier, had checked those links in the OP since honestly I'm in coinomi's side ( sorry again ) but upon reading all those links I found out these are all true ( especially those reddit posts ). Maybe I trusted it too much and ain't aware those "backdoors". I'm having my thoughts right now which wallets are safe since even a hardware wallet can be tampered upon shipping. Bounty managers do not _have_ to make the spreadsheet public, but it provides a degree of transparency and credibility if they do. All problems that arise from doing so can be resolved on the forum, also in public. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: vit05 on March 01, 2019, 06:29:02 AM This spreadsheet is for the first campaign (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OGQBpBWDy_2N6flWRmeQ3oJbxSvDXD_rpkbPNMVHo7Q/edit#gid=1373140560) and was always public. They have 2 campaign and the second doesn´t have a public spreadsheet here in the forum. The first one was closed.
Stake.com Signature Campaign - Up to 0.035 BTC a week (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5092506.msg49021257#msg49021257) Stake.com - A signature campaign for everyone! Earn up to 0.1 BTC weekly (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5110093.msg49745983#msg49745983) And I believe that not only the forum but also the Manager, benefit from the transparency of these campaigns. There are some users who like to search for possible scams or double accounts and this can help the manager. In addition, you can avoid various misunderstandings. Since most campaigns make spreadsheet public, leaving it closed gives the impression that there is something to hide. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Quickseller on March 01, 2019, 06:58:07 AM It appears Stake has added a spreadsheet for all to see within the last hour. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OGQBpBWDy_2N6flWRmeQ3oJbxSvDXD_rpkbPNMVHo7Q/edit#gid=1373140560 What's weird is this spreadsheet doesn't include all the participants. Or if it does, that means some people are wearing their signature and avatar for no reason: Leave a comment below with the following
If accepted I will message you asking for your Telegram name Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: hacker1001101001 on March 01, 2019, 07:00:42 AM 2. Reduces the scam attempts of non participants towards the campaign. Can you elaborate more? How can somebody, using the information from the signature spreadsheet, do a scam attacks?Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: squatz1 on March 01, 2019, 07:43:18 AM Quote This is probably because they are asking potential participants to wear the signature to even apply, and do not appear to be accepting everyone I always thought this was scammy practice, as a lot of campaigns do it and then only respond to someone on if they've been accepted weeks later. Wasting the time of the people who were trying to join, and other campaign managers for not having a larger talent pool. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Quickseller on March 01, 2019, 07:49:57 AM Quote This is probably because they are asking potential participants to wear the signature to even apply, and do not appear to be accepting everyone I always thought this was scammy practice, as a lot of campaigns do it and then only respond to someone on if they've been accepted weeks later. Wasting the time of the people who were trying to join, and other campaign managers for not having a larger talent pool. I would encourage signature advertisers to refuse to wear a signature while an application is being considered. That practice essentially is giving free advertising, especially to those who are ultimately not accepted into the campaign. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: lemipawa on March 01, 2019, 07:50:10 AM Can you elaborate more? How can somebody, using the information from the signature spreadsheet, do a scam attacks? One can wear a signature and go to the Lending section and ask for a no collateral loan and promises payment will be given once payment for campaign is received. Lenders can't verify since spreadsheet is not available publicly. That's all i can think of.Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Slow death on March 01, 2019, 09:02:41 AM I voted " yes " because of this: I believe that since the website is using the bitcointalk platform to advertise their website, that all information regarding the campaign should be made public. This will help the reporters to keep an eye on participants applying for and being accepted into signature campaigns. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: poptok1 on March 01, 2019, 09:20:22 AM I have voted ''yes'' and here is why;
Looking through publicly available sheet gives option to check other people post quality up. There are usually links to members profile, so I can easily access history of theirs and spy on them ;D Obviously not for entertainment reasons but rather to expose horrible posters to manager. As you may know, some of the managers can gratify the spotter, even if it's only with merit point, I think it's worth the trouble. So far I did what I just described twice, as most of the time I struggle with remorse for acting like a rat... If not overused, informing may prove itself useful, not only for the manager himself. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: TheBeardedBaby on March 01, 2019, 09:42:37 AM Yes.
Just because sometimes you can see your own name there and unknown address next to it. So if you have the time you can investigate that guy and kick his ass for cheating in bounties. Often it's easy to catch bounty cheaters, with same telegram, twitter, addresses etc. On the other hand when you have a public spreadsheet, if you want to revenge on someone it's easy to register just another account with his Twitter name and kick him off the bounty for cheating. After all it's better to have overview over the members and shares for sure. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: coinlocket$ on March 01, 2019, 10:19:04 AM @yahoo I will explain the probable ring found on your campaigns and I think you should never pick these users again since they apply almost always and only on the same campaigns, who know how many others account this ring have if he can park a ton of senior accounts... I will try to find more about
Red Flag 1: If we look here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4505960.msg42467396#msg42467396 we can find consecutive posts from senior members that now have no signature https://puu.sh/CTsxY/534d0d0002.pnghttps://puu.sh/CTsye/5fb9675a87.png Red Flag 2: they use all a 3xxxxxx wallet and this is a Xapo.com wallet (yeah this can be circumstantial evidence) https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/Xapo.com?from_address=36TeFLUM41JJ45oGJbvqNT7kdfdMcs2oYs Now what we can do? Looking on their post history and investigate with spreadsheets! Proton2233 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=999563 3HDWQDS82Hnz7oCQBKRzuutiDqmZoXrp6c Lampaster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=999970 34iUxR4azr93p9gnpetSKS6hPTuWbSpN89 Kronos21 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1002310 3Mp8nz913V9YJGWfd4SD6E51jB4XYLD7uK warrior333 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=999500 3NcnXBrvmG6tWKjqFwizkJw2a6jWBA5znk Basmic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=999503 3HXNrUxVcB6WQ8V5iuHrhKg188br8L6pyr matuson https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=999573 36TeFLUM41JJ45oGJbvqNT7kdfdMcs2oYs Everyone applied on Moxo bounty signature Proton2233 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4505960.msg42467396#msg42467396 Lampaster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4505960.msg42467777#msg42467777 Kronos21 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4505960.msg42468174#msg42468174 warrior333 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4505960.msg42468479#msg42468479 Basmic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4505960.msg42468685#msg42468685 matuson https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4505960.msg42469419#msg42469419 5/6 Applied on eroiy Proton2233 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2827626.msg28978835#msg28978835 Lampaster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2827626.msg28976918#msg28976918 Kronos21 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2827626.msg28977211#msg28977211 warrior333 Basmic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2827626.msg28977863#msg28977863 matuson https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2827626.msg28978521#msg28978521 5/6 Applied on Viberate Proton2233 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2047474.msg21184188#msg21184188 Lampaster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2047474.msg21170208#msg21170208 Kronos21 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2047474.msg21175050#msg21175050 warrior333 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2047474.msg21183963#msg21183963 Basmic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2047474.msg21115310#msg21115310 matuson 6/6 Applied on Dimicoin Proton2233 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1987330.msg19799476#msg19799476 Lampaster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1987330.msg19791516#msg19791516 Kronos21 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1987330.msg19803988#msg19803988 warrior333 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1987330.msg19791396#msg19791396 Basmic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1987330.msg19791479#msg19791479 matuson https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1987330.msg19791479#msg19791479 5/6 on Let's Think About the Future | Signature Campaign | (All Ranks Welcome) Proton2233 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1560376.msg19518950#msg19518950 Lampaster https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1560376.msg19519058#msg19519058 Kronos21 warrior333 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1560376.msg19519323#msg19519323 Basmic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1560376.msg19519207#msg19519207 matuson https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1560376.msg19519207#msg19519207 Do you think it is casual? I guess no... Now for last things, we can look at the addresses to find some errors from the abuser like transfers after signature payments or same address transfer even this can prove nothing since the addresses are on Xapo.com wallet https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/Xapo.com?from_address=36TeFLUM41JJ45oGJbvqNT7kdfdMcs2oYs https://www.blockchain.com/it/btc/address/3HDWQDS82Hnz7oCQBKRzuutiDqmZoXrp6c https://puu.sh/CTsH3/713c3e809d.png https://www.blockchain.com/it/btc/address/34iUxR4azr93p9gnpetSKS6hPTuWbSpN89 https://puu.sh/CTsEE/5f311e3120.png https://www.blockchain.com/it/btc/address/3Mp8nz913V9YJGWfd4SD6E51jB4XYLD7uK https://puu.sh/CTsEY/5e571ff966.png https://www.blockchain.com/it/btc/address/3NcnXBrvmG6tWKjqFwizkJw2a6jWBA5znk[/color https://puu.sh/CTsJn/8cb3df10fd.png https://www.blockchain.com/it/btc/address/3HXNrUxVcB6WQ8V5iuHrhKg188br8L6pyr https://puu.sh/CTsG8/6246000a7f.png https://puu.sh/CTsIW/27a9fcb44f.png https://www.blockchain.com/it/btc/address/36TeFLUM41JJ45oGJbvqNT7kdfdMcs2oYs https://puu.sh/CTsHS/930fd3c1c1.png Do you think this is casual? This is why the spreadsheet should be always public. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: leonair on March 01, 2019, 08:42:18 PM Voted Yes, anyone can wear the avatar and signature of any campaign so it will serve for the public to know who's the real participants and being transparent is one of the best characteristic that can build trust to the company from the public.
Showing the spreadsheet of signature campaigns was the norm in this forum and up until now so why hide it if you're a new sig. campaign, for the privacy of the participants? ;D. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Patatas on March 01, 2019, 09:35:49 PM Voted Yes, anyone can wear the avatar and signature of any campaign so it will serve for the public to know who's the real participants and being transparent is one of the best characteristic that can build trust to the company from the public. Why would anyone want to advertise a service for free? It used to happen when people tried selling their accounts using BitMixer.io signatures where the payouts were good. I doubt anyone will fall for that since merits clearly show how good of a poster that person is.Showing the spreadsheet of signature campaigns was the norm in this forum and up until now so why hide it if you're a new sig. campaign, for the privacy of the participants? ;D. Not really, there have been many campaigns where post counts and payouts were linked to the service they were using or were automated in some way.Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: CryptopreneurBrainboss on March 01, 2019, 10:34:59 PM I voted yes. I also have a question,
As majority of voters have voted yes (including reputed users) can this be translated into a factor to consider before joining a paid signature campaign?. If the community believe making spreadsheet public is very important should users be discourage from joining campaigns that don't publicize their spreadsheets. Sorry reply is kinda off but I need answer so I can update this thread: Factors to consider before joining paid signature campaigns. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5115291.0/) Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Rabbot on March 01, 2019, 10:44:11 PM Before joining, I would like to see at least the total number of participants, so I vote YES.
Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: HCP on March 01, 2019, 10:56:15 PM Also from the spreadsheet, there is a possible chance to detect scammer for joining the signature campaign with alter accounts. There are some users who like to search for possible scams or double accounts and this can help the manager. I voted " yes " because of this: I believe that since the website is using the bitcointalk platform to advertise their website, that all information regarding the campaign should be made public. This will help the reporters to keep an eye on participants applying for and being accepted into signature campaigns. I never understood why there is such a fervour amongst some here to try and detect all the so-called "campaign abusers"... when they are not even part of the management of the campaigns... and then I read this: ... As you may know, some of the managers can gratify the spotter, even if it's only with merit point, I think it's worth the trouble. So far I did what I just described twice, as most of the time I struggle with remorse for acting like a rat... If not overused, informing may prove itself useful, not only for the manager himself. "We're doing it to help the manager/for the good of the forum" ::) ::) ::) I am not a fan of regulating companies in telling them how to run their business. They can run it as they see fit, and if they wish to make their private information public they can, and if they don't they shouldn't be forced to. I agree with this.Bounty managers do not _have_ to make the spreadsheet public, but it provides a degree of transparency and credibility if they do. All problems that arise from doing so can be resolved on the forum, also in public. And also this.Basically, there is no rule (and in my opinion there shouldn't be one) that says a manager should be forced to make spreadsheets public... However, as nutildah mentions, by doing this, they offer a certain level of transparency regarding the campaign and the way it is being managed, which could help protect themselves in the case of any disagreements. If you don't like the way a manager chooses to conduct their business, then don't do business with them... that's your choice. Just like it is their choice whether or not they choose to make a spreadsheet public (or even have a spreadsheet in the first place!) Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: BlackMambaPH on March 03, 2019, 06:30:24 AM I voted "Yes" of course. Because we all know that some might abuse those campaign they manage and for some reason, they only private those spreadsheets to have free advertising (IMO) or more than about that. This is one of there marketing strategy. Also, they will not let you know that you are accepted sometimes when you applied in a signature campaign you'll be the one to look at the spreadsheet. If you don't check that you're accepted or not the free advertising will work.
Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: sheenshane on March 04, 2019, 06:57:31 AM I voted "yes" option.
For me, it really helps if spreadsheet must on the public because of not all manager's know who's participants abusing or not on the project that they manage. With the help of the "forum police" through investigating spreadsheet they can to identify those abusers participants using through their alts which is against the rule here in the forum. Since we are trustworthy here I think a hidden spreadsheet is just like untrustworthy IMO. ;) I saw Bounty Campaign manager that manage the projects here who's not showing the spreadsheet as a public, in that case, we didn't see who's abusing the project, the manager or the participants either. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: HCP on March 04, 2019, 10:59:03 PM I also have a question, My question still unanswered. As majority of voters have voted yes (including reputed users) can this be translated into a factor to consider before joining a paid signature campaign?. If the community believe making spreadsheet public is very important should users be discourage from joining campaigns that don't publicize their spreadsheets. I would go ahead and say Why? If users which to join campaigns that don't have public spreadsheets... that is their choice. Just like I believe it is the choice of the campaign manager (and/or campaign owner) to decide whether or not the spreadsheet should be public (or even exist... who knows, maybe they do it all on napkins, post-its and old receipts :P)I have a question (or three) for you... There are a lot of "it helps stop campaign abuse" claims being made here, but why should the general public care? Should that not be the campaign manager's responsibility to "police" their campaign? Isn't that what they're being paid to do? ??? I still don't understand why it is that people who have no vested interest in these campaigns get so worked up about so-called campaign abusers... it's akin to wandering around a random store trying to catch shoplifters like some sort of voluntary store security!!?! ::) Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Crypto-DesignService on March 05, 2019, 05:18:55 AM No.
Campaign managers role is to check the project he is managing for any possible abuse of the users, it is not the job of a normal user. Such information should only be made public if there are complaints about the Campaign manager not doing their job properly. It makes Campaign managers vulnerable as it feels like they are being investigated/monitored even though there are no existing complaints. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: CryptopreneurBrainboss on March 05, 2019, 06:03:15 AM I still don't understand why it is that people who have no vested interest in these campaigns get so worked up about so-called campaign abusers... it's akin to wandering around a random store trying to catch shoplifters like some sort of voluntary store security!!?! ::) Before now the motivation was to gain reputation as signature abusers busters but now they have another motivation earn merit. Let me use your example to explain better consider the stores owner decided to pay a prize to those who catch shoplifters, that's exactly what's happening in the forum. When you bust signature abusers you gain either ruptation or merit. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Avirunes on March 05, 2019, 10:57:39 AM I still don't understand why it is that people who have no vested interest in these campaigns get so worked up about so-called campaign abusers... it's akin to wandering around a random store trying to catch shoplifters like some sort of voluntary store security!!?! ::) Before now the motivation was to gain reputation as signature abusers busters but now they have another motivation earn merit. Let me use your example to explain better consider the stores owner decided to pay a prize to those who catch shoplifters, that's exactly what's happening in the forum. When you bust signature abusers you gain either ruptation or merit. I find it shocking that there are people who think we are doing is because of some reputation/or feedbacks or some merit. I've never expected to receive merits or feedbacks while dropping reports. If people feel that way and its something that is a problem that we need to consider at this point then I will stop making such reports as it is getting more like an abuse of some sorts maybe? :-\ I earlier also faced this kind of discussion and yet it pops up again. You are free to PM me anytime what you think about me and my investigations that I do. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Lauda on March 05, 2019, 11:29:27 AM Unless there is something shady going on, I don't see a valid reason for hiding them.
Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: coinlocket$ on March 05, 2019, 11:16:39 PM Before now the motivation was to gain reputation as signature abusers busters but now they have another motivation earn merit. Let me use your example to explain better consider the stores owner decided to pay a prize to those who catch shoplifters, that's exactly what's happening in the forum. When you bust signature abusers you gain either ruptation or merit. Sure man, Avirunes is legendary and with green trust from years and he is keeping doing it for merit and trust, cmon man accept the fact that some users do this because they like it, don't whine on other people especially if you here are the only one who brags for his merit https://puu.sh/CVGwW/13e5851b17.png OT: yahoo I've added 2 more probable accounts on the ring on your signatures, I will look more but I don't think they are more on this ring. Here the others 2 accounts https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg50015055#msg50015055 Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: pixie85 on March 06, 2019, 09:41:48 PM Yes it should be public especially if the campaign manager is also a poster.
It makes it harder for the manager to hire his own alts and cheat. Serves as a proof that counting and paying is being done properly and on time. Allows members to check on their status in the campaign and see warnings and statistics. Makes it easy to see when a member resigns or gets red trust or gets banned. This can be important if you're waiting for a spot. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: HabBear on March 07, 2019, 10:12:05 PM Answer to your question: Yes, make them public. The community should be able to view into who's getting paid what as a measure for monitoring spam.
As for Stake, i think it's even more important because what they're running is essentially a lottery. Whose to know if the Stake campaign admin is just paying off friends or alt accounts without the transparency. This poll has been created due to Stake.com Signature campaign (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5110093.0). I believe that since the website is using the bitcointalk platform to advertise their website, that all information regarding the campaign should be made public. --- All that said...this forum is mostly "fuck all" on rules. Anyone can do almost anything they want so long as they don't do it to someone more powerful, at which point they get punished (regardless of whether their actions warranted said punishment). Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: mirakal on March 08, 2019, 01:44:37 AM I will agree that spreadsheet should be public.
There's nothing wrong with showing it on public and this will show some transparency, you know when things go wrong like the manager will scam the members, at least we have some proof to see when participants will seek for help from the community. Note : The spreadsheet that OP posted is for the first campaign, I would love to see the new one since I believe we have more spammers in this new campaign. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: asche on March 16, 2019, 07:33:08 PM I just discovered this poll.
My position on that is cristal. All blockchains are basically advocating one thing in common, transparency. It should be the same here. Only way to be transparent is to keep the sheet public for everyone to see. It adds another layer of governance (by forum users interested in it) and in the end it is just compilation of data that is already public. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: RivAngE on March 17, 2019, 10:28:29 PM I just discovered this poll. My position on that is cristal. All blockchains are basically advocating one thing in common, transparency. It should be the same here. Only way to be transparent is to keep the sheet public for everyone to see. It adds another layer of governance (by forum users interested in it) and in the end it is just compilation of data that is already public. You mean Grincoin is not a blockchain? :D I'm just joking, I understood your point and I'm of the same opinion. When there's no real reason to not have the spreadsheets publicly available, the default should be to provide them. Even more so when hiding them can raise questions as to the credibility of the campaign. Imagine a campaign which is supposingly running but in truth there are no participants. Yet the manager asks for people to apply and wear their signatures while waiting to be accepted. Then they delay to reply and they get free advertisement without ever accepting anyone! Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: HCP on March 17, 2019, 11:18:34 PM My position on that is cristal. All blockchains are basically advocating one thing in common, transparency. It should be the same here. Only way to be transparent is to keep the sheet public for everyone to see. What about Monero? or any of the other privacy based "blockchains"? Granted Privacy =/= Transparency, but still... they don't "transparently" identify participants... neither does Bitcoin for that matter, being pseudo-anonymous.So, would you be happy with spreadsheets that redacted all "user identifiable" information? Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: sclmte on March 18, 2019, 11:57:29 AM I voted also YES, the spreadsheet would be better displayed in everyone in the public way, for me it would be easier for me to know if it is in the public spreadsheet and here we can find the right payment rewards and also we'll see spammers because here we will not find it difficult to find our proper names in the spreadsheet if we accept or not, so an open spreadsheet in a public is easier and better.
Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: FontSeli on March 18, 2019, 01:09:38 PM I think this is the right of every bounty manager. He can decide for himself whether to make the spreadsheet public or not. If this does not suit the participants, then they may refuse to participate in this bounty campaign.
If participants distribute spam, you can complain to the moderator of the corresponding branches. Cryptocurrencies were created to give people more freedom. And it is not right to equate all under the same standards of someone invented. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: asche on March 18, 2019, 03:00:49 PM What about Monero? or any of the other privacy based "blockchains"? Granted Privacy =/= Transparency, but still... they don't "transparently" identify participants... neither does Bitcoin for that matter, being pseudo-anonymous. So, would you be happy with spreadsheets that redacted all "user identifiable" information? Not engaging in playing dumb & dumber with you. I believe you understood my point. Also privacy is already guaranteed since your forum alias =/= your personal information. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: HCP on March 18, 2019, 08:36:33 PM It seems I may have been too obtuse with my point...
In my opinion, "Cryptocurrency" more about freedom... and what a number of users here are advocating is taking away freedom of choice from managers/campaigns. For instance, what happens if a bounty manager chooses to keep all the records offline in a notebook? Are you now saying that all managers must use and publish a spreadsheet to manage a campaign? In the general clamour for "transparency" and "openness"... it seems that no-one cares for the freedom of managers. Don't get me wrong, I'm just playing devil's advocate here... I personally prefer if a manger would use a spreadsheet for most of the reasons that have been listed in this thread... however, I do not advocate for this being forced upon managers if they do not want to do so. As I stated earlier... I believe that managers should be free to run their campaigns as they see fit and/or have negotiated with the project/business... if users don't agree with the methodology, then don't subscribe to the campaign. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: asche on March 18, 2019, 09:49:36 PM In my opinion, "Cryptocurrency" more about freedom... and what a number of users here are advocating is taking away freedom of choice from managers/campaigns. For instance, what happens if a bounty manager chooses to keep all the records offline in a notebook? Are you now saying that all managers must use and publish a spreadsheet to manage a campaign? Ones freedom stops where the freedom of other starts. In this case the freedom of the whole community. Don't get me wrong, I'm just playing devil's advocate here... I personally prefer if a manger would use a spreadsheet for most of the reasons that have been listed in this thread... however, I do not advocate for this being forced upon managers if they do not want to do so. That's what I thought :) Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: coinlocket$ on March 18, 2019, 11:52:46 PM As I stated earlier... I believe that managers should be free to run their campaigns as they see fit and/or have negotiated with the project/business... if users don't agree with the methodology, then don't subscribe to the campaign. Yes this is a valid point but if spreadsheet are hidden how you can spot abusers? Hidden spreadsheet can be a big exploit for old members with more than one account and IS a big exploit for old rings of high rank accounts. A spreadsheet profs nothing but is a valid point where to start the investigation, since we have not a "alarm" for accounts using the same IP. Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Mpamaegbu on March 19, 2019, 07:51:26 AM I like it when spreadsheets are made public. In fact, it's a matter of policy for me not to apply to any bounty that won't publish the spreadsheet. Also, making it public helps curtail the activities of scammers who enroll with other people's username or with multiple accounts. However, the only thing I don't like about this is putting out our emails. Exposing participants' emails to be sold to data criminals and causes junk mails.
Title: Re: Community opinion on Signature campaign spreadsheets Post by: Woodie on May 05, 2019, 10:32:33 PM The forum has had successful signature campaigns like bitmixer.io run for a long time with technically speaking no public spreadsheets available to the community thanks to SMAS and a campaign manager who was doing their job. Now the issue at hand of whether signature campaign spreadsheets should be open or not is at the discretion of the campaign manager provided he or she ensures the participants are in line with forum rules.
But then again a public spreadsheet has its advantages as this could help fish out cheating users, help bystanders know if there is an open spot for them to apply and also allow any interested party to know what standards the campaign manager works with which could work in his favour and be recommended for future jobs. |
