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People forget in this entire Trump-Ukraine scandal that there is a person that is being left out of all investigations relating the topic. JOE BIDEN

Joe Biden is the point man for the Obama administration on all things Ukraine. He deals with everything going in and out of the WH regarding Ukraine.

Well at the same time as this, Joe Biden son, Hunter Biden, has received a job from a Ukrainian oil company who is under the scrutiny of Ukrainian prosecutors. Hunter Biden has no history in the oil industry, though I don't think this is something to be looked at weirdly -- as picking people to be apart of your corporate board simply based on their name is something that is pretty common in corporate America. Though that's where the issue lies, picking Hunter Biden is picking someone simply because of the fact that he's a Biden and you're trying to ride off the coattails of the Biden name.

But that's exactly what happens -- a prosecutor is fired under the direct order of Joe Biden (who had also threatened to withhold foreign aid from Ukraine) that had been investigating the company that Biden had been working for.

So yeah -- the real story in my head here is the fact that at worst Biden had abused his position as the point man for foreign relations in Ukraine to directly benefit his family. And at worst, Biden had a clear conflict of interest that he failed to bring to the attention of the WH and the American people. Biden without a doubt shouldn't have been involved in these negotiations with Ukraine if he has this clear conflict of interest involving his SON.

Don't worry, hes not off the hook yet regardless of how hard the media is trying to deflect. As far as your "at worst" scenario, I assure you it gets much MUCH worse for Biden regarding what he is responsible for. This goes way deeper than the majority of people realize.

I mean this is more of what I'm pointing to.

As the media continues to talk Trump Trump Trump, they forget that the start of this whole story is Biden. Though you can see that Trump and the rest of the GOP is attempting to point him out -- and to make people look at him.

How much deeper do ya think this goes?

Potentially multiple former high level officials with names we all know executed for treason deep. The potentially part has more to do with being unsure of the penalty that will be imposed rather than the guilt of the involved parties, that part is well documented. As I explained before, this is going to be the greatest political scandal in US history. Because those busting up this cartel only have one shot, this information is being rolled out slowly and deliberately.

All of this info has been available to average folks for some time if they bothered to monitor the right channels. Unfortunately most people have been conditioned to ignore these resources in favor of corporate overlord regurgitated content. Too bad for them they are going to have to start reporting the truth soon or they will be joining the line to the gallows for their knowing complicity in these crimes.

Joe and Hunter Biden's Ukraine dealings didn't warrant investigation, ex-law enforcement official says (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukraine-biden-joe-hunter-law-enforcement-official)


More info here:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-09-29/former-ukraine-prosecutor-says-no-wrongdoing-biden

What i seem to hear all the time is Trump asking the Ukranian President to investigate Biden's son company and it shows how mightily biased the media is and am not talking only about the US Media, Al Jazeera are talking non stop on this matter and it doesn't seem to abate.I know for a certain that this impeachment thing isn't going to work but i say that the Media is full of lies and half truths.

I am just going to leave these right here...

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/yuri-lutsenko-views-from-prison-cell/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-12085959
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/434875-top-ukrainian-justice-official-says-us-ambassador-gave-him-a-do-not-prosecute
https://antac.org.ua/en/publications/hero-lutsenko-and-soros-group-antac-rebuts-new-article-of-the-hill-journalist/
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/lutsenkos-luxury-vacation-seychelles-draws-criticism.html

That said, Yuri Lutsenko is clearly neck deep in this corruption at best, and a CIA cutout at worst. His word is about as good as Biden's own denials. You are a tourist Nutilduhhh. This mindless regurgitation of the first headline you see that agrees with you with zero examination clearly demonstrates not only your own need for confirmation bias, but your pathetic levels of incompetence doing your own independent research and critical thought. I am confident you didn't even bother reading the article.



It is way beyond just American media. It is about corporate establishment media. They are looking to preserve their own position of authority, and the position of power of their paymasters. Now when you are talking about paymasters who often find their opponents "committing suicide" with two bullets to the head, or "stabbing themselves" in the chest 47 times, you can see quickly how these organizations can be brought strictly into line with the international mafia's preferred narratives. Now that resistance to these criminal cartels is rising, they are now increasingly finding themselves in being in a position of being caught being knowingly complicit in these crimes and being prosecuted, and drowning "accidentally" in 3 inches of water in their own bathtubs, or other less terminal forms of having ones life destroyed.

The point is that you can have all the information that exists, but it doesn't do any good if people won't look at it or acknowledge it.


Hundreds of Documents Conflict with Joe Biden's Account of Why Ukrainian Prosecutor Was Fired (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/268992-2019-09-29-hundreds-of-documents-conflict-with-joe-bidens-account-of-why.htm)




8)

TL;DR from Burisma Holdings. "We are so very sorry we made you look bad, now put this leash on and get on your knees bitch." This kind of hubris is often the downfall of such corrupt arrogant psychopaths. They can't resist professing their crimes to the world in order to wallow in their self satisfaction and further send a message to the world that they think they can't be touched.

Oh the projection from you is so tremendously sweet nutillduhhhhh. You really are clueless and just believe anything the media tells you with zero critical thought, and worse yet, even when they are objective, you selectively interpret and cherry pick only the parts you prefer to see like the intellectually lazy fat tub of lard you are scarfing up whatever carefully filtered shit biscuits the corporate media throws at you.

Let me spell it out for you low and slow so you can take it all in cupcake. Factions of the US intelligence networks organized a regime change in Ukraine in order to put pressure on Russia. This man was part of the spearhead to overthrow their own leader to make way for a puppet of their own choosing. This doesn't necessarily make Viktor Yanukovych honest or exclude the possibility of his own corruption, but the point is the so called revolution was actually an organized coup perpetrated by factions within the US. One man's treason is another man's political prisoner depending on what narrative you are looking to sell, and the corporate establishment media is certainly trying to sell whatever the US intelligence networks tell them to.

Now that the administration responsible for organizing this coup are out of power, and the Ukrainian people have had a chance to put in some one based on their own determinations after a short puppet show along with a lot of conflict and violence, the people responsible for perpetrating this crime are looking to cover their asses at all costs. Of course he would downplay Biden's role, because he was directly involved in this coup. Now that Trump is starting to expose these crimes, everyone including Biden are running around with their asses on fire looking to run damage control and deflect attention away from the real story. Interestingly enough, the coup in Ukraine has a lot of direct connections with the coup that took place here in the USA. As a result anyone being held responsible in either country will expose the other party's involvement. Remember Crowdstrike? Of course you don't, Rachel Maddow and Stephen Colbert didn't instruct you to think about it. Well get back to that later. Did you ever wonder why Trump brought up that name in his call with the Ukrainian president? Because this was a deliberate trap set for the heads of this criminal organization that currently maintain control of the democrat party and to a significant but notably lesser extent the GOP.

Remember how the whole Russia collusion narrative started and got kicked into high gear? It was with the murder of Seth Rich. In order for the parties responsible for murdering him to deflect attention away from him and the evidence he presented and towards Trump, they claimed the files that were actually leaked by Seth Rich were hacked by the Russians. Strangely enough the FBI was never actually given access to the DNC servers, instead they were examined by a 3rd party private cybersecurity firm who claimed it was the Russians. Do you know who that company was? That's right, CrowdStrike.

So as you can see Donny, you're out of your element. You weren't even paying attention to dude's story. You just strolled in at the last second and think you know everything. You don't know shit. Regarding Trumps supposed impeachment, it is the greatest gift the Democrat party could have given to Trump virtually assuring his reelection for four more years. I am not mad at all, I am ecstatic that they made that critical tactical error and furthermore this corruption is finally coming to light among the general population. No one is rallying around Biden, Biden is radioactive and his career is over. He will be lucky to spend the rest of his life in Guantanamo bay when this is all over. You know who everyone is rallying around? Trump, and we have people like you mindlessly vomiting up these half backed Saul Alinsky style projections to thank for it.

So thank you Nutilduhh. Thank you for doing your part to help America as well as Ukraine wrestle back control of their governments from these brutal international cartels.

As I said in the post, while this may not have been illegal nor a crime -- there was still a clear conflict of interest that Joe Biden ignored to mention to the American people while he had been negotiating there.

That's the part that I take offense with.

Let the Dems rally around Biden, a third rate candidate for the POTUS.

That virtually assures Trump wins Four More.

I'm okay with that.

I think that if the Dems actually do pick Biden, they're going to be digging their own grave. Biden is a candidate which alienates a large part of the party, which is the new progressive side of the party. He's someone that's going to be a slap in the face to the Sanders/Warren portion of the party, who have seen themselves past over yet again for the establishment candidate.

We'll see, but I do truly think that picking Biden kills the progressives voter turnout. Which is great for the GOP, but not so much for the Dems.

Even if what Biden did was legal (I have serious doubts about this), it was horribly unethical and corrupt. His presidential campaign is going to end over it.

That's a long way to go about admitting that I'm right. Nowhere in your long-winded spiel did you even counter the points that I made. You just proceeded to bark at me like a rabid chihuahua. Again, what it comes down to is you don't know more about the situation than Lutsenko. He is not a fan of foreign interference, but since he said something opposite of your narrative you decided to puke on him, and me for bringing it up.


I don't think the "conflict of interest" is as clear as you think it is. We don't know the finer details. We just have words by Biden, and words by Trump, and a billion different opinions spanning the entirety of the political spectrum. Proving that Biden forced Ukraine to remove Shokin because his son was being investigated by him is going to be an impossible job. Impeaching Trump over his latest, particularly severe blunder is going to be easy by comparison.

Sorry to disappoint you all but I like Biden more now than I ever did before. I have a feeling that a lot of usually-dem voters paying attention to the news feel the same.

You didn't make any points. You made claims. Claims that make no sense which I have already addressed by explaining what is actually going on by referencing the historical links to this current fiasco. Oh I am certain Lutsenko knows exactly what happened, because he was part of the coup and is desperate to cover his own ass.

You keep jerkin your cocktail girkin over dreams of ousting Trump over media hype while minimizing a well documented history of corruption, extortion, and treason. LOL, "finer details". Way to make extortion sound like a classy tuxedo gala while you treat the king's castle like a McDonald's bathroom. The only people that still believe your narrative are the desperate feckless ostriches like you who think one day they're going to click their heels together 3 times and the 2016 election results will magically be reversed.

Ron Paul Asks: "Impeachment... Or CIA Coup?"
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2019/september/30/impeachment-or-cia-coup/

This would appear to be a textbook example of cognitive dissonance at work.

@squatz1 I’m positive that you did not expect that the fake media would demand for investigations into Biddens role during his dealings with Ukraine on behalf of his son?. This saga has once again proven that the media has a vendetta against Trump, but it won’t matter because he’s a warrior and he’ll come out as a winner in this situation too. It’s pertinent to note that the Ukrainian President has confirmed that no one asked him to probe Biden, but yet the media is not stopping it’s witch-hunt against Trump.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn48UP4hx3Q

Eh I mean I think everything has been confirmed in the broad strokes of what is going on here.

Bidens son worked for a company that was under the scrutiny of the Ukranian government.
Biden had been involved in the pushing out of the prosecutor that was investigating his son.
That's it.

That's the conflict of interest.

But that's the thing: Shokin wasn't investigating Biden's son. He was investigating the Burisma company itself. He even says  (https://www.scribd.com/document/427618359/Shokin-Statement)this:

https://i.imgur.com/u39wEGu.png

The investigation started before Hunter Biden took his role at the company.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-ukraine/ukraine-must-investigate-joe-bidens-son-says-ex-ukrainian-pm-idUSKBN1WD0PK

Has nothing to do with Hunter Biden. I really just don't think Joe Biden would be dumb enough to brag about how he had Shokin fired if his son was actively being investigated by Shokin. That's because he wasn't. Its a non-issue. If new investigations need to be opened because of Hunter Biden's involvement with the company, that's another story. But it has nothing to do with Shokin.

"Shokin told me in written answers to questions that, before he was fired as general prosecutor, he had made “specific plans” for the investigation that “included interrogations and other crime-investigation procedures into all members of the executive board, including Hunter Biden.”"

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816-joe-bidens-2020-ukrainian-nightmare-a-closed-probe-is-revived

Once again, as I repeatedly explained before,your timeline is meaningless for several reasons. First of all he was receiving payments from Burima Holdings well before he was on the board. Second, I already mentioned, Hunter Biden being placed in the very lucrative board position AFTER Joe Biden fixed their prosecutor problem could have just as easily been part of their payoff/reward for doing so.

Regardless if Hunter was the one to initiate the original crimes that started the investigation, it certainly does seem evident he was quite complicit in helping to hide those crimes by selling his father's influence for pay. Also, at the time Biden made those public statements, he probably never imagined his powerful international cartel buddies would lose control, and would prevent any repercussions against him no matter what he said. Criminals at this level are quite known for falling to their own hubris after all.

He worked in no capacity for Burisma prior to 2014. You keep bringing up this board member stuff as if its the only thing that matters. The investigation had nothing to do with Hunter Biden. Why can't you accept that? "Specific plans" for a future investigation... that's fine. It had nothing to do with the investigation ongoing at the time.


As I repeatedly have explained to you: Hunter Biden didn't join Burisma until 2014. He was not working for them in any capacity prior. You just revealed how little you actually understand about the order of events, so who are you to criticize my timeline? I just posted a quote from an article (which you are probably now going to dismiss as fake news):


Edit - here's a more direct mention  (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-whistleblower-ukraine-buris/ukraine-agency-says-allegations-against-burisma-cover-period-before-biden-joined-idUSKBN1WC1LV)of Hunter not being hired until 2014:



Again, nothing to do with Hunter Biden. Zero. Zip. Nada. You're just unwilling to be honest about what actually happened.

Try again.

I had mistyped.

I had meant that they had been investigating the company, but the point still stands on the conflict of interest. There's no reason that we should let Biden off the hook for this, he had still allowed for a clear conflict of interest to occur without disclosing it.

Also -- the prosecutor had been forced out because of his investigation??? Isn't that what we're all saying here.s

Yes, that's what you're all saying here because this is an echo chamber outside of my opinion. I'm glad you at least framed it as a question, because that's what it is: a question. We don't know the answer. Of course its easy to assume that's the case if you don't like Biden.

I do agree with you about the "conflict of interest" part. As I've said before I don't know what Hunter Biden was doing there other than using his last name to make big bucks. I'm not going to say Biden's conversation was "perfect" when he bragged about having the prosecutor fired. Perhaps that will become its own investigation, if its not already. However, I don't see him being destroyed over this. If he slips in the polls, perhaps it will just be a better entrance for my man Bernie, so I actually wouldn't mind it. I just don't see that happening, however. I think there's a 90% chance he'll still be the dem nominee.

Well yeah -- it's a question to me as well. We're most likely never actually going to know if that was the reason that the prosecutor was fired. We're all just going to form our different theories here. Very easy to assume if you don't like Biden.

Without a doubt what Hunter Biden was doing. He was using his name to help a company look better as they were in a very tough time. I even said before, it's not rare for someone with literally no experience in that particular industry or company to be on the board of that company.

I'm just pointing out that this is a conflict of interest. That's it.

When you have Joe Biden bragging about threatening to get the prosecutor fired by with holding a billion dollars, said prosecutor being fired exactly when Biden threatened them, you have no factual basis to make the claim bolded above.

This is kind of garbage that Democrats are pushing. They want to lean over backwards and look the other way at their peoples' corruption, but get out a microscope to find the smallest thing about Trump.

On a different level entirely, this kind of crazy is that which can only be created and propagated by lawyers. Regular people see through. And that's a major reason why Trump is where he is right now.

Just to further explain what I meant when I typed that -- if you were to see I had been talking about how no one will know the exact reason that he was fired.

Biden is going to say he was fired by an international effort to remove him due to corruption.
Trump is going to say the prosecutor was fired due to going after Bidens son, Hunter Biden.

We know that the prosecutor was fired because of Biden forcing him out, yes, no one disagrees there. But no one knows the true reason that Biden had pushed for his removal. And we most likely will never know.

I meant exactly what I said. All that you have done is note that no one ever can truly know another's internal motivations. Except to the extent that it is evidenced by his statements or actions.

Repeating,

This is kind of garbage that Democrats are pushing. They want to lean over backwards and look the other way at their peoples' corruption, but get out a microscope to find the smallest thing about Trump.

On a different level entirely, this kind of crazy is that which can only be created and propagated by lawyers. Regular people see through. And that's a major reason why Trump is where he is right now.

I think you're right in a way.

I think a large amount of people can agree that what Biden did is a problem and is a conflict of interest,  me included.

I think that the prosecutor was fired due to getting too close to Bidens son, and maybe Biden had another cover -- as the prosecutor maybe was corrupt as well. So Biden had been able to get away with both.

In a nutshell.

Biden: Prove that he's guilty.

Trump: Prove that he's not guilty.

The styling of both arguments incorporates the logical error of the "Irrefutable Hypothesis," but it's being used in opposite directions simultaneously.

Lawyer tactics to obscure the truth.

Slightly off Topic, but the story of Ukraine from 2010, when Viktor Yanukovych was elected till 2014 when he was removed is pretty crazy.

He basically just brought in a bunch of Oligarchs from Russia to bribe the right officials and milk the government and people for every penny he could.  Apparently he was averaging close to $2m USD every single day for alost 4 years in just bribes.

When he was ousted and fled to Russia, they seized the house he was living in and couldn't believe all the money he had spent on it - he had just been literally spending as much money as possible on himself all while looting the entire government.  They turned it into a tourist attraction.  Google Mezhyhirya Residence for pictures.

Manafort was working for this guy for 4 or 5 years, spending most of his time in Ukraine as a political advisor for the future Ukrainian President/Russian Oligarch.  I think this is primarily where he got all his money, and his taste for spending all his money, which meant he had to commit bank/tax fraud to keep it up, and now he will probably die in prison.  He likely would've gotten away with all the crime if Trump lost in 2016.  Small world.

The new President of Ukraine is a Comedian and Pianist. Very Talented.
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE)

I'm going to merit this, because it's Interesting Facts and not Political Polemics

"Giuliani claims he has Ukrainian docs showing 'collusion' with top Dems "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOVsLNmmA70


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7523253/Photo-reveals-Joe-Hunter-Biden-golfing-Ukraine-gas-company-executive-2014.html

https://i.imgur.com/VUl8Kfl.jpg

I am not sure if you are aware, but Hunter Biden does not have any experience in Ukraine, nor does he have experience in the Oil/Gas industry. The position on the companies board was very likely to be a way to purchase influence from Biden. Hunter Biden was receiving $50k/month for nearly zero (if any) work.

"We have all the evidence that the DNC colluded with Ukraine, but the media is deaf dumb and stupid as they always are and corrupt"
-Hannity

Is the evidence their talking about an affidavit from Shoken?  Or am I missing something here.

When Biden told Ukraine they had to get rid of Shoken in order to get any money (money = weapons), it wasn't just something he decided on his own, and it wasn't even just American money.  The G7 (which had just kicked Russia out for literally taking over a chunk of Ukraine) all agreed on it and most other EU countries were happy to see Shoken forced out.

Shoken was not just corrupt.  He was an anti Ukranian revolutionist, that openly went after the parties that were fighting for their independence from Russia.  He was basically a less powerful version of the president that had just been ousted.

Meanwhile, the G7 (Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, and the United States) agreed that it was in their best interest to not let Russia keep fucking with Ukraine.  It seems like they genuinely wanted to offer assistance, but it was pretty clear that if they did while Shoken held a powerful government position, their 'assistance' would be a waste.

Bidens son probably did do something shady to get his $600k/ year job working for a company owned by a corrupt Ukranian.  But Biden wasn't the one behind getting Shoken fired.  He just happened to be the messenger for most of the western world.

My point is - Rudy and Hannity celebrating that they got Shoken to promise something was true is just...meaningless.  All they are trying to do is rile up half the country.

First of all, don't modify my quotes. Second, regarding the photo, there is a big difference between yours and mine. Trump never denied knowing Epstein, and he rubbed shoulders with just about everyone in  power, so a photo of them together is meaningless. My photo however exposes that he in fact did have direct contact with Burisma Holding's board members in spite of his explicit denial that he ever discussed it with his son. Regarding the affidavits Giuliani has from Shoken are quite relevant and by far not the only evidence against the Bidens and others.  

As I previously explained, factions within the US organized a coup within Ukraine, leaving anyone with a legal complaint with no one to report the evidence to, until now. These crimes have been in the public domain for some time, but law enforcement both in the US and Ukraine were owned by the perpetrators. Now that both administrations have changed, that is all coming out, and it is going  to implicate more people than any of you can imagine as well as expose Russiagate as a desperate attempt at these perpetrators trying to cover their own asses.

Do you think it's fair to say that Yanukovych was more interested in keeping Russia happy while he was president of Ukraine?

I do.  And the same probably goes for Shoken. 

Probably < a pile of other evidence. Furthermore the two ideas are not exclusive.

I don’t believe Hunter Biden was ever actually in the Ukraine. I also don’t believe he was doing any actual work for the company.

Do you think it's fair to say that Yanukovych was more interested in keeping Russia happy while he was president of Ukraine?

I would say that it is besides the point and does not exclude other corruption. For there to be competing criminal cartels is more the norm than not. After all, his testimony is by far not the only evidence against Biden.

I'm not suggesting it would make other corruption ok.

Literally just trying to figure out if you think Yanukovych was working for Russia or Ukraine. (while he was the president of Ukraine)

Considering the close historical relationship between the two nations, and that Crimea contains Russia's only strategically critical warm water harbor, I wouldn't be surprised. Again though this is just an attempt at whataboutism to create false equivalency between the two factions and distract from the exposure of the corruption that is the topic at hand. Cue your what about Russia conspiracy theory here.

I really am trying to approach this whole Ukraine thing as objectively as possible.  9 days ago I didn't know much about what Ukraine has been going through for the past 10 years.  Then I fell off a latter and found myself with a lot more time to read than I'm used to.

I think Ukraine is a great example of today's Democracy vs Authoritarian fight.  

America and our Allies are trying to liberate Ukraine and protect them from Russia taking over.  You seem to be sympathizing more with Russia.

As expected, "but muh Russian collusion!"

The dems are just desperate to turn this back into more Trump/Russia narrative so they can distract from the crater that will be the democrat party after this info comes out to the general public. Unlike you, I have been watching this situation develop as it happened over the past 10 years and longer. You stroll in at the last minute, regurgitate some owned corporate media talking points, and pretend you are informed. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you don't know shit.

What info?

You've already said there's tons of evidence.  But...of what? 

I'm not trying to attack or troll you.  The Hunter Biden $50k/month thing def looks like  there's prob something shady going on there...but, what is it?

No, you are just trying really hard to confirm your bias. See the other related thread here. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5186660.0;all)

Are there any theories on what specifically Joe Biden was so worried about the Ukranian government finding out about his son?  Or even general?  Like, was it just about making money?  Or political?  

Burisma Holdings seems pretty obviously corrupt. Hunter Biden's level of involvement is unknown, but what is evident is he was hired in compensation for his father pressuring the Ukrainian government to pull the lead investigator going after Burisma Holdings, who coincidentally planned to also investigate his son. I would say all three apply to some degree. Please read the other thread, I would rather not repeat myself.

Here's where I have a problem with the Biden thing and the accusatory, retaliatory Trump attack.

Just think for a moment about the underworld of diplomacy. Many things going on there between the world's secret agencies, frantkly a lot of it for the good. Biden worked for Obama, and there was stuff going on with the Ukraine, and in the middle of it, Hunter sits on a board and gets payments. We know the public side of the story, but we don't know what was under the table.

Reality may have been very, very different than the appearances. So we should given Biden the benefit of the doubt, because of these real world factors.

And that applies 120% to Trump, also.

Wait - No it doesn't !!! Not according to the Dems !!!

Really?

Heres my guess: Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in this Universe. When it comes to working in a large company, especially if its connected with the state there is always a reason to start worry, because you can dig up a lot of interesting things (if/when needed).

But Im more concerned about your double spaces at the beginning of sentences. Dare explani?

If it is a constant double space, then don't worry. No secret messages are contained therein.

I would look very closely at the patterns of one who seemed to randomly vary single and double spaces at the beginnings of sentences, of course.

:)

Just kidding...

Guys we need a doctor here. I mean srsly an old man gone wild.

Anyone who believes that Russia was responsible for the Skripal attack is retarded, for several reasons. If he had information dangerous enough worth killing him over, they would have done it before he left Russia. Furthermore he had a trip planned to visit Russia shortly before the incident. Why the fuck would they attack him on UK soil and create a very public international incident when they could have just waited a week and quietly do it on their own turf? None of this narrative makes any sense, except to people who watch too many movies. This is not how intelligence agencies and assassinations work.

Attention is the opposite of what these people want, and if they get attention it is to serve a purpose. What effect did the large amount of attention generated by this incident have? Cui bono? Finally, if you know anything about Novichok, you would know if it was that, he would be dead 100%, along with first responders and bystanders. Once again, what narrative did this attack serve? It certainly didn't serve Russia.

Russia traded 3 spies (including him) for 10 spies from the UK.  This could be a reason not to kill him.

I hadn't read that, do you have a link?
Maybe there was something he was planning on doing before coming to Russia that they didn't want him to do?

The main reason it blew up is the guys they sent from Russia didn't kill him and got caught.


A reported case of accidental exposure of a Russian physicist to Novichok in 1987 described the following events (http://theconversation.com/what-we-know-about-novichok-the-newby-nerve-agents-linked-to-russia-93264):

He staggered out of the room, his vision seared by brilliant colors and hallucinations. He collapsed, and the KGB took him to a hospital.

By the time he arrived his breathing was labored. In another hour, his heart would have stopped. His entire nervous system was gradually ceasing to function.

The physicist was lucky. The hospital he was taken to, the Sklifosovsky Institute, includes the nation’s top center for poison treatment.

There, Dr. Yevgeny Vedernikov saved his life.

But the scientist was at the edge of death, unaware of his surroundings, for 10 days. He couldn’t walk for six months. He was dogged by depression and an inability to concentrate. He found it difficult even to read. To this day his arms are still weak, and he has never been able to return to work.

Although he survived, the gas left him with permanent disabilities.

If he had information worth killing him over, he would never have been traded. Even assuming he did, how does it make sense to let him wander around the UK for years before killing him, giving him plenty of time to spill the beans? Why not kill him in Russia? Why use a rare neurotoxin almost exclusively used by Russia forming an obvious link? This is what investigators call "an orgy of evidence" and is indicative of a frame up.

Do you really believe spies don't know governments are willing to kill them? That premise is retarded and more based on TV and movies than reality. Spies enter into their line of work knowing full well they are at risk of assassination or execution, meaning killing him to "send a message" is completely asinine. The key word in your scientist's exposure example is "accidental". None of this narrative adds up, except to people that think they are Ethan Hunt.

There are however clear motives for the UK to attack Skripal, and make it look like the Russians did it.

"At the time when Pablo Miller was recruiting spies for Great Britain, Christopher Steele was the head of MI6 in Moscow.  After returning to London and retiring in 2009, Christopher Steele founded private intelligence corporation "Orbis Business Intelligence."  Allegedly, Pablo Miller, a former recruiter, curator, and now one of Skripal's friends and neighbors, got a job at Orbis.

Therefore, when Christopher Steele received an order for fabrication of the "dossier" on Trump, the fate of an unsuspecting and innocent Skripal was sealed."

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/03/the_trump_dossier_and_the_poisoning_of_sergei_skripal.html

As we now know, the FISA warrant which was used to start the Trump Russia collusion investigation was completely based on the fabricated dossier created by Steele. Given their relationship, this is a glaringly obvious motive to attack him and frame it as a Russian attack. Using this method, they not only get to cover up embarrassing fabricated evidence from one of their own spies, but have a damned good excuse to ratchet up Russian sanctions.

Related: https://qz.com/1224822/a-linkedin-bio-reportedly-connects-sergei-skripal-donald-trump-and-christopher-steele/

After the spy swap he was known to meet with intelligence officials in other countries.  He may not have known any big secrets that could damage Russia, but a former Russian spy willing to share all he knows would be valuable to any country. 

No, I'm sure they know that.  Both in real life and the movies.

Your reasoning doesn't follow any logic. Either he has information that is dangerous to Russia and is worth killing, or not. If they know their lives are at stake, "sending a message" is not a valid or logical motive.

Video of Russia (https://youtu.be/H73L7M0xsnM?t=15) sending a message to any defecting spies.

Obviously I don't know what actually happened.  All we can do is speculate based on what we know.

You could absolutely be correct about Russia not being involved, although I think it's more likely that you're wrong - especially after seeing that blog you posted.  Geez.

 Well geewillikers TwitchySeal, if you can't argue any of the information presented, simply attack the source. I know what I know from observing this unfold as it happened for decades, not just from some blog post. I am sorry your tourist pass leaves you personally unsure, but that sounds like a you problem.

I mean, the blog you posted claims that the poisoning was done by Russia to cover up the fact that Russia wanted Hillary to win in 2016.  Would that qualify the author as a retard in your book?

Try picking your nose. It would be a good break from all the cherry picking you do. Also, no it doesn't. More expansive and selective interpretation to fit the confirmation bias of TwitchySeal.

That's literally the premise of the entire blog.  Did you even read it? 

That was a slick little juxtaposition you did there. I don't see the statement "the poisoning was done by Russia to cover up the fact that Russia wanted Hillary to win in 2016." anywhere in that quote, or the article in general. I do however see that it says "Christopher Steele is known to be an extremely left-wing mind, and he quite aggressively tried to help his transatlantic ideological soulmate, Hillary Clinton, to win the presidential election. "

No, not the premise of the entire blog, just the parts you want to cherry pick and distort to fit your bias. The fact is, even if true, the UK had just as much if not more incentive to attack Skripal. None of this explains why it was done in such a blatantly obvious and visibly "Russian" way. There are plenty of ways to kill people that attract much less attention if your goal is to cover up their connection.

These are the main points I disputed to begin with.  I'm not trying to do anything slick.  You're the one posting stuff that contradicts what you said at first so I'm not even sure what your point is now, other than Hillary is Bad - Trump is good.  (You haven't contradicted the last one, but I found a report of a scientist that came in contact with Novichok and survived).

Well you dispute them, I am very proud of you. And?

My point is that these current events relating to Ukraine and the never ending attempt to reverse the results of the 2016 election tie all the way back to these attempts to cover up the illicit source of the Steel dossier, as well as the illegal FISA warrant that was based on it. This demonstrates a pattern of attempts to cover up this coup attempt by all involved parties including the UK, Russia, as well as elements within the US government itself. I am sure Russia attempted to manipulate the election process as well, the problem is more that there are factions within our government also doing so, and they have far more motive and ability to coverall of this up with endless frivolous investigation, media hype, and attempts at impeachment. This has all been crafted to cover their own asses.

So is "Anyone who believes that Russia was responsible for the Skripal attack is retarded" or not?

Remember, if you still think so that would mean the guy with the "Russia killed Skripal bc of the phony dossier" theory is a retard.

https://i.imgur.com/22roul5.png


"Ukraine 'Anti-Corruption' Director Bragged About Helping Hillary Clinton In 2016: Leaked Audio"

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

Trump: I don't think Russia was responsible for the Skripal attack.
TECSHARE: Anyone who believes that Russia was responsible for the Skripal attack is retarded!

Conspiracy Blog: Russia killed Skripal to cover up the truth behind the Steele dossier
TECSHARE: More proof! Libtards!, Witch Hunt!, Lock her up!

Twitchyseal: Both those things can't be true.
TECSHARE: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



You should try to be more objective.  Treating politics the way die hard fans treat their favorite football team just makes all your arguments in bad faith.

Did Trump even say he doesn't think Russia attacked Skripal? That's news to me.

I don't have a favorite team. Politics is a game of shit hustlers all around. I started as a hard left dem and as they transformed realized I could no longer in good conscious support them as I learned what games they play. I  have voted from everyone from John Kerry, to Ron Paul, to Trump. At least conservatives put their flaws on the table so you can account for them. The left just happen to be the most insane, dangerous, and establishment at the moment and need to be resisted.

I linked the blog because it covered the facts about the Skripal-Steele connection. I don't have to endorse every word, especially the part you are cherry picking where he speculates over factual information that the Russia collusion delusion illegal FISA warrant is directly linked to this assassination attempt. Also they played this exact same game with Alexander Litvinenko, poisoning him with an element that pretty much exclusively comes out of Russia. If you are trying to kill people to cover things up you don't leave your calling card before you leave. All you have are superficial criticisms and character attacks, which is... pathetic.

That's literally what started our discussion of Skripal for the past 2 pages.  


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/05/trump-told-theresa-may-he-doubted-russia-was-behind-skripal-poisoning

Right, I forgot I am supposed to take unsourced interpretative comments from randoms on the internet at face value. Silly me for questioning it.

I have my doubts as to if Trump will get impeached, but if he does get impeached, I would predict that both Joe and Hunter Biden will be asked to testify and their corruption will be highlighted. Both will be under political pressure to not plead the fifth and a trump impeachment could ironically lead to criminal charges against some closely associated with the Obama administration.

This was the plan from the start. There is a reason Trump mentioned Crowdstrike in that call, it was a trap for thirsty dems looking for anything to latch on to, baiting them into exposing Biden.


https://i.imgur.com/bJu3gU9.jpg

Joe is trying to keep his son, Hunter, from having to protect Trump, by being forced to be a Trump witness at the impeachment.


EXCLUSIVE: HERE'S Hunter! Biden's son is FOUND in Los Angeles as Donald Trump demands he is a witness at impeachment trial and Joe lashes out at Republicans who have 'attacked my family' (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/273668-2019-12-22-exclusive-heres-hunter-bidens-son-is-found-in-los-angeles.htm)




8)

I don't buy this. His being in LA is not going to prevent or hinder his testifying. That can be done via a video link if all parties agree. And right now I don't see anything wrong for anybody if Hunter testified. It is what it is, right? There isn't much in dispute about what Hunter was doing over there.

Assuming the worst, that Hunter and his father were both engaged in illegal operations, this does not affect the two charges that the House has leveled against Trump.

The Senate isn't going to do this. McConell continues to signal that he wants a fast and quick acquittal. Trump and some Conservatives are saying that they want both Bidens to come in front of them and talk, but that truly could backfire and the Republicans don't want to risk it.

With public opinion in the 48-48 range. They know that they're going to be able to sweep this under the rug and move on. That's the best thing Trump can do for his reelection campaign. Better not to risk it.

It currently looks unlikely there will be any witnesses at the Senate trial, if one happens. As a side note, Senate rules currently state something along the lines of they will promptly hold a trial upon receiving impeachment 'papers' from the House, however this requirement is not in the constitution. Some are calling for the Senate to amend their rules by a majority vote, and hold a trial with or without house managers being voted on and approved by Democrats.

It is possible that either Biden testifying at Trump's trial will be a moot point considering that Biden is allegedly under criminal investigation (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-subject-to-criminal-investigation-court-filing-claims-as-alleged-mistress-demands-custody-of-child), and if the younger Biden is charged, Joe will probably need to exit the race due to the potential liability that Hunter will be willing to give politically damaging details of his various arrangements.

the usa is supposed to fight corruption everywhere, thats part of its humanist ideology, now it has hit biden and the democratic party and they try to blame trump,

trump wouldnt have been a good president if an ukrainian or german would have been corrupt in ukraine

This is happening with allot of cases these days. The main accused will be behind the curtains when someone else's drama will be running all the time. I dont think Biden will let off as its a huge matter and the conspiracy is higher than Trump.

Fighting corruption everywhere is Christian ideology. That's what America is all about... Christianity. That's why Jesus, the Christ, is keeping America so strong.

8)

and the geography, america is effectivly free of hostile neigbours while afroeurasia, is full of conflicting banking cartels,

europeans settlers made america powerful, removing all the trash that was before there

as someone living in EU germany i am very jealous on the usa, it has such a great geography and is free from refugees, erdogan, russia, middle east etc.

Actually, the way that America became strong at first, was that the vast majority of Americans were sincere Christians. God strengthened America, but Britain first, because they honorred God way back. Think of the King James Version of the Bible 1604-1611.

8)

The impeachment... a distraction designed to distract from Biden and others like him.


Graham: Senate to Investigate Whistleblower, Bidens After Impeachment Vote (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/276227-2020-02-03-graham-senate-to-investigate-whistleblower-bidens-after-impeachment-vote.htm)




8)

Oh good. More time taken away from doing their actual jobs. More money wasted. Sounds good to me. Keep it all going right up until the election. That should be fun.

This absolutely IS doing their actual jobs. Look at all the laws on the books... thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe millions. There isn't any need for them any longer. We don't need any more laws. All they do is sit around and twiddle their thumbs to look like they have something to do. Something like this makes them look like they are doing something worthwhile, so that the people don't stand up and eliminate the whole lot of them.

8)

I'm sure this would be just perfectly fine with you.

If the whistleblower was working with people on Schiff's staff that wanted to take Trump down a year-and-a-half ago, I think that would be important. If the Schiff staff people helped write the complaint, that would be important."

Trump haters are o-so-predictable.

But look at the exact assertion. Why would anyone in their right mind have a problem with simply checking that the whistleblower statutes were not abused strictly for political purposes?

But there's something we could likely agree on. I don't care for or have interest in the big media senate and congress shows. Just let the AG check into this boy, and if he's a bad boy show him the way to his little room.

Are you once again making assumptions about me to suit your agenda? Go figure.

I thought Spendy was talking about Schiff.     8)