Bitcoin Forum

T-minus 21 hours as of posting

http://avalon-asics.com/

Woo, everyone can be excited to not buy them  ;)

I got burned by Bitsyncom once before. Not again. I'm sticking with reliable vendors like Bitmain.

The AntMiner Solution uses a BM1380 hashing chip, which has been developed privately over the past 7 months by Bitmain. Bitmain team has been working on it day and night; some of our engineers got sick several times due to overwork. We combined the wisdom of a mature IC design process with several innovative or even aggressive power saving techniques.

Process Node: 55nm
Package Type: QFN56
Packaged Chip Size: 8 mm x 8 mm
Number of Cores: 8
Die size: 12 mm^2

Core Voltage: 0.75V
Core Frequency:196 MHz
Hash Rate: 1.568 GH/s
Power Consumption: 0.68 J/GH (chip level)

Avalon Gen 3
40nm, 7GH/s per chip, 5Watts, 0.775Watts per Gh/s

Avalon Gen 3 offer no improvement against the competition, only a die shrink.

For youre information, the antminer s1 has a total of 64 chips, rated @ 2.81GH/s per chip. The power consumption at that level is 360w, so 2w/Ghs. The givin power consumption of the Bitmain chip is achief at lower clocks.

So yes, this chip is a improvement compared to the Bitmain chip.

At chip level the answer is a NO.
The Antminer S1 use 64 chip which are overclocked, the antminer U1 use the standaard clock of the chip design.
The Antminer S2 use the same chip, but is underclock to make it more powerefficient.

i only know how to eat chips with salsa.. ;) waiting for complete mining h/w, who's making h/w with Gen3 chips?

Cheers,
QG

I wonder if they'll beat bitmain in price. Otherwise, why would you bother?

Where do I get on line NOT to buy them??

I guess you are already at the head of that line :)

Avalon gets less credit than they deserve tbh, yes they fucked up on B3 and chip delivery times but when shipping from stock they have been to my knowledge just about as reliable as Bitmaintech.

In retrospect, how many of the companies taking pre-orders actually delivered on time? Even KNC had 1-2 week delay from initial estimated delivery window. They are also one of/THE ONLY? company to offer full refund in BTC ever on a large scale?

You can bash them all you want but I myself put them just below Bitmaintech in reliability when it comes to shipping "in stock" items simply due my personal experiences with them.

NO, I'm at the front of the line! I've been camping out here since July!

Glad to see our Bitcoins are being put to good use! (joke)

I hope they enjoyed the 350 BTC that we lost by buying their equipment. ::)

(~350 BTC lost just from my group buy only... no telling how much BTC was lost by all Batch 3 Avalon buyers. The number would probably be staggering considering we only ordered 7 Avalons.)

Ye if only they had offered a full BTC refund to those who wanted out, if only  ::)

"For one week only we will give full BTC refunds."

<HURRY MAKE UP YOUR MIND.>

<One week passed>

And... it's gone.

<Avalon delays one more month more with no refunds allowed>

So when they were already delayed by months one week wasn't enough for you to make up your mind? You thought you could still make a profit from B3 and hence didn't cancel, don't blame your choice to gamble on someone else, there was a way out and you decided not to take it.

Also it was more like 2-3 weeks from the end of the "refund request" window close that the first B3 units started showing up. I was very late in B3 and my miner showed up about 3.5 weeks after the final refund request date.

"Also it was more like 2-3 weeks from the end of the "refund request" window close that the first B3 units started showing up."

Um... 2-3 weeks for the first units to arrive.. so for most people it was 3 or 3+ weeks for their units to arrive. That would be considered about a month in my book.

You are right, we decided that we may still make our BTC back at that point. But the damage was done already... even if we got a full BTC refund. There was no way out of the year-long lease I signed. There was no getting my money out of the commercial A/C I purchased as its used value was less than half of what I bought it for. There was no way out of the three to four months rent and bills I paid while waiting. Many others that were running large farms probably ran into the same scenario costing them thousands too.

A lot of people put up a lot of money and planning based on Batch 3 and their chips being shipped on time. You seem to be focused on Batch 3, but a lot of people lost a lot of money due to the chip debacle as well. Many PCBs designed and many components ordered, many warehouses/commercial properties leased, many HVAC solutions purchased, many engineers paid to design PCBs, many etc.... just to be fucked by Avalon delays.

Although Avalon might of played it right by you, it's not very hard to see why others would not be as happy with them.

Not saying we should be happy with them, just that they are far from being the worst company out there but still they seem to have some of the most rabid haters around, they even rival BFL on that front  ;)

I just wanted to get my point across that when it comes to buying from their in stock items there isn't really much risk from my experience since they have a good track record on that side of their business that gets drowned in all the old "pre-order hate" noise.

Avalon has moved to an in stock only model now, and Yifu isn't a part of the team any more. The people who are left are the engineers who made the magic happen back in 2013 and do NOT have money. Yifu walked away with it, yet the engineers trying to run a real business get the flak from his actions.

Ok, I get what you're saying.


I'm not so sure about that, I think that was done just to save face. This is just conjecture, but it is pretty damning evidence IMO:

Yifu owns BitSyncom, LLC. At the bottom of Avalon-asics.com (after being updated numerous times since Yifu's supposed dismissal) is a copyright notice:   

Copyright © 2012 - 2014 Avalon Project, BitSyncom LLC

Copyrighted for BitSyncom LLC through the year 2014. The year was updated to 2014. If BitSyncom is truly not involved with the project anymore then why is his company still listed in the Copyright? They updated the year but not the company name? Wouldn't they want to distance themselves from Yifu as much as they can?

The only reason I can see for keeping the copyright information under BitSyncom LLC is if Yifu is still involved with Avalon.

If he had truly left and it was under different hands I would expect it to read:

Copyright © 2012 - 2014 Avalon Project, Some other company here

or

Copyright © 2012 - 2013 Avalon Project, BitSyncom LLC
Copyright © 2013 - 2014 Avalon Project, Some other company here

Again, this website has been updated numerous times since Yifu supposedly left the company.

He is on paper but he's not responded to the teams emails in months and months. As I said, the only people left (and running this company now) are the engineers, with little money. Yifu ran off to to work with the government about anonymity and took the millions with him.

He is the founder but he isn't the only owner.

From my experience, I also believe that Yifu is no longer an active member of the Avalon project.  The communication(s) and way the project has been moving forward is much more in the manner that ngzhang ran his FPGA project than how Yifu ran the Avalon project in the early days.

The real question is if they can match/beat bitmain on price, guess we'll find out in a few hours!

I wonder if it's just chip orders initially or if they plan to sell Avalon gen2 style rack based miners as well, they seemed interesting but the price was a bit to high when they launched them.

Being MIA is almost as bad as being active. Being an owner, he could show up and any time and really mess things up. As long as he is still associated with this project in any way (and he is by still being an owner), I strongly recommend avoiding them at all costs. There are other, respectable, mining companies out there.

I plan on supporting them with an order.
We need more hardware options that are not preorder.

When in stock. I will buy. Chip looks good.

I have a question:

- Will Avalon sells only chips or also complete miners ?

  :)

Bla bla BIG money are always taken by comrades. So if that yufu has gone they got another one as replacement. Born in china grown up in USA and free traveling back and forth? This is not allowed for ordinary people if you follow me. Services are involved for sure
He was there on purpose he has found nothing except bitcoin blogs back in 2011
That is all. The important for them is to stick to their business model and next day delivery

Will they be selling miners or just chips?

Both, but I believe this announcement is just for the chip side. The Avalon Avalon2 design is apparently compatible with Avalon3 chips though so it won't be long.

lol, it just reset

yifu just goxed us again

This is just too funny.

but the count down was not bad  :o

Anyone knows what's going on? I'm looking to buy 50-100TH.

you mean the 3 usd script from templatemonsterorso?  ;D

https://i.imgur.com/bEJN0mt.jpg

only 3,3 months left guys!

"Just 24 more hours" (TM)

you gotta reload, my page has got a supercool twitter feature!

social-media-button AdBlock filter :D

After a quick look at the page source, the countdown timer isn't programmed to do anything once it's over. As far as I can tell, there are no hints to any other content on the site from the front page's source. So, somebody forgot to finish up the web site?

+1, lol

It is about 7-8am in CN at the moment, I'm sure they'll trigger the main site soon :P

Didn't they bork a previous release as well? This all feels very deja-vu like.

Looks like the new 40nm part is pin compatible with the 55nm.
Any one know where to get some A3233Q48 samples ?

They were in the store for free last week.

Dang!  Seems like I am always late :)

Still counting for another two days ?

Yup. Telling me two days and some odd amount of hours.

Still counting :D

yesterday their website showed 20+ hours left - today it shows 2+ days left  ::)

dogie, if yifu (piece of crap) did bail on avalon and left only the engineers to run it.
close avalon down. avalon/yifu (peice of crap) have a bad taste in people's mouth (except those who ordered batch 1)

have those engineers do some rebranding, don't associate with yifu at all and then i'll have some sympathy.
noone should be giving a company any money where a piece of crap person will be able to get any of it.
yifu fucked people over on purpose. stop defending that scammer. he deserves huge lawsuits to bankrupt him.

any idea on prices per chip?

None yet.
I had put some free chips in my cart and went to move money to pay for the shipping and I came back after half a day and it was on this count down that keeps changing.  LOL

On Yifu's defense, He did offer a FULL REFUND to everyone who ordered Avalon Chips. At that time each 782BTC order was worth atleast 100k. If he really was a scammer he would've kept that but he didn't, you need to watch what you say and flame somewhere else.

fuck avalon

Screw Avalon !!!

I can't believe people have any trust left for them.

http://x.avalon-asics.com/
no clue WTF avalon is up to the past few days, but they had a timer for the gen3 announcement that was supposed to end last night around 11pm, then sudenly jumped to add 21hrs, and then this morning said 2 days, 9 hours. now the page is as red and cracked out as our mayor (Rob Ford of Toronto)


what. the. heck....?

"Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. Vestibulum tortor quam, feugiat vitae, ultricies eget, tempor sit amet, ante. Donec eu libero sit amet quam egestas semper. Aenean ultricies mi vitae est. Mauris placerat eleifend leo."

"Beating dwell the sad old age and disease, spanned, and advising hunger and the review session. Gas stove as possible, the immune system of life, it's just it needs, is probably the time to start with. Unfortunately, the scarcity of football a lot of free always. Just remember it's just my life. Register a team."

not sure who to blame for the translation, google or avalo

it's Lorem Ipsum, a generated sparse text

as mentioned by CoinHoarder, people put in actual expenses for leases on DC and other things related to mining. EVEN with a "full" refund - Yifu (scumbag) fucked people over ON PURPOSE. hope you are able to understand that and stop defending scumbags - hope he's broke and penniless soon. what he did only assholes do.

Do you have some insider information?  You are the OP and seemed to have some vested interested in this?

I am not so sure Yifu not responding to emails is really proof that he is no longer associated with Avalon.  It wasn't that long ago when he seemed to disappear from the face of this earth and not responding to any IM, email, forum posts for months while everybody is waiting for the B3 chips/miners.  He was associated with Avalon at that time, No?  So what's so different now when you don't see or hear from him?  If anything else, it is typical Yifu behavior.  It doesn't prove that he is not associated with Avalon and making money off new Avalon chips that I hope nobody is buying when there are so many more options available now.

When I set out the conditions for promotion or demotion for companies in my manufacturer trustworthiness thread (see sig), I tell them. I tell them exactly what the community (as an average) feels about them, on going problems, what is required for the problem to be solved. In the case of Avalon it was the trade ins (never sorted) and the bad performance on B3. They can't solve B3 now, it happened.

The other part of it was that Yifu was the figurehead/scapegoat/ringleader, whatever you want to refer to him as. But he's not there any more, he took large amounts of money (or the control of money) yet the engineers left behind are getting HIS flak.

IIRC Yifu went AFK between B2 and B3 because he was just about starting this government work and he never checked the forums. Have a look at his profile on here, he's not been around for months and months and months.

Lets all take a freaking moment and think about why he should even fix any of your problems. You guys go on and on, whining about how he "fucked you over" on purpose, and never said anything grateful because you're all greedy bastards who can only think of yourselves and not what people have done for the community. If he really wanted to screw his customers over he would just take all the money and never refund anything. He has REFUNDED TONS of people, in BTC while the BTC increased in value! I think he did what he can to do good for his customers and the community. 1 Year ago you would all be sucking his C**K for a miner, and now all you can do is talk crap. Show some gratitude and maybe something awesome will happen. Ya B*tches.

He knew they fucked people over. His last post promised compensation for trade in and chip buyers and they still haven't done anything.

Why would chip buyers receive anything? They were offered FULL refunds regardless if their order was late or not, its not Avalon's fault if people gambled and got it wrong.

Seems like you are re-writing history.  They went from a company that was reliable and shipping to one that instead mined with customer gear.

Customers where not 'gambling', they were making a purchase with a promised date.  Customers were lied to. 

Right now there is a huge mining operation in china that is mining a majority of the Bitcoins right now.
http://fiatleak.com/ (http://fiatleak.com/)
It is most likely most of the manufactures we buy from mining until just before the units are out of ROI.
Then they send it out to pre sales and get their next gen mining.

They gave the choice between a limited time to claim a full BTC refund or taking delivery, with the understanding delivery would be swift. It was not, it took until the 2nd week of August for my B3 miner to arrive, by then the most valuable time had past. A BTC 102 machine that has only been able to mine BTC 59.18 up to today.

But let's not forget the mistreatment of the FPGA trade-ins, many people sent back (at sometimes great expense) their boards to China, but they never got a reduction on their Avalon orders. So they lost their initial hardware, could no longer mine with it, had to pay shipping and got ripped off.

Yifu basically ignored all of the complaints and keeps behaving like a rockstar. He made enough BTC to feel like a rockstar too. But seems to be unable to master running a company, dealing with customers and logistics.

Does that sound like a company one should do business with?

I'm sure all those people who had already prepared their PCBs and bought hardware to complete large batches of miners are very happy with Yifu's lack of organizing talent. Not to mention some batches of chips ended up in China in the hands of some shady resellers instead of the customers who paid for them

is ngzhang still working for avalon?

yes

what an awesome response.

how about YOU, instead of 'dogie' offering some facts as to the actual situation regarding your business partner/company??

i am for one disgusted by avalons past performance and random posters coming out with 'show some gratitude & great things might happen' is just pathetic.

were all avalon staff disabled with awe/fear when 'BitSynCon' was lying and mining with our gear?

one word answers dont really help much.

and you can keep your stinking miners, tyvm

All deference to the new look of Avalon. How about they come clean about what went on. Apologize to the community in no uncertain terms then we can start talking about trust and getting all warm and fuzzy again about their business model of instock shipping right?

I think the community is owed a reasonable explanation of what the hell happened to the Batch 3 and the chips and how the removal of Yifu has rectified that from ever happening again. Yes I am still bitter over the millions people lost in the chip fiasco some good EE's and DIY teams were taken out of circulation due to Avalon. BuzzDave had to prove through actions to rehab his reputation but he also came CLEAN with his participation in the BAsic failure. We have yet to see that from Avalon or any Avalon spokesmen.

We all know people who purchased parts for miners in good faith that Avalon was going to deliver chips on time. They didn't and millions were lost. What has Avalon done since that event to garner trust from this community? That is where many people are at this point and it is really up to Avalon to state why this happened and how it will never happen again. Till then I think it is very prudent to steer clear of Avalon and that comes from personal experience as an Avalon chip buyer who did get a full refund and was very lucky not to have ordered parts for miners but it was darn close. Still no reasonable explanation has been made for the lack of communication to all the emails we sent requesting information on our orders. Have they solved that problem? Will they be more responsive? Or are we going to get the same sort of customer service experience this time? How have they changed?

Here is a perfect opportunity to answer all these questions and state their case. Let us see what they do. I am willing to remove my negative trust rating on  ngzhang (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=38132) if we see some answers and then give them the benefit of the doubt moving forward. I'd hope that Ngzhang or someone else actually on the Avalon payroll could do that so that we have them on record and can save their statement for posterity.

Bick,
Comrades took the money is that hard to understand it was beyond NG.
Does this makes any senesce to you?
how do  you think 23 year old boy born in China was able to travel  FREELY to US and back. he was coming from nowhere and he just discovered a bit coin blog a yea ago. And he was their sales manager? How do you think is possible yufu to live in the states and be able to go back to china? He is a comrade child  for sure no other way
This things are not happening by accident
If Avalon  chip price is good it does not really matter if you will consider avalon gen 3 chips or not. Let us say you consider them by accident. You know next year board design release for avalon gen 3 is not gona work ;D next year gen 3 chips will be history along with your project dude ;D i do strongly suggest to start reconsidering and do things faster before time kills your project. your team members can work for free but it will not last long ;D oh I forgot apart of the skills required to be part of your team people are paying fee for the owner to work for free ;D
Besides avalon has it all and it is free. Everyone can assemble miners with the info available without any license fees ;D
If the chip price is not competitive then avalon is lost. This is called a business.
I can assure you that NG is a honest person. But in china if you wanna live you have to pay the price.
Whatever happened it was not his fault and he was not able to do anything to change it.
Will it brig back all lost money to community?
no of course. But as I said there are no rules sometimes even in business.....
And who cares if you gona remove your negative ranting on NG? You got your refund fro avalon right?
Who are you? what have you done and why you feel your negative rating is so important for NG for me and probably others. as I said get back to your projects. I Have been reading the summary of your famous meetings lately. My feeling is that nothing moves forward with your projects. So get your ass back to work and carefully plan next meeting bulshit  ;D
If you are able to take some money from  Zipkin AMT and make him part of your team that would be great. He has so much know how to share ;D just make sure there is enough duct tape around

To sum it up: Never ever buy from Avalon!Scumbag Yifu scammed the community and the rest of Avalon was clueless about that??? No way!

It seems that there are a lot of big buyers in China if they are still in the market.

Of course they are if chip price is good they will buy if not they will pass no matter if Bick will remove his negative rating or will consider eventually next year to come up with board for gen 3 ;D eventually  ;D ;D
However I am damn sure that if NG sends him 1K free chips just for motivation the negative rating will be removed immediately. However I am not sure if design will be ready by the end of the year ;D
Who gives a fuck anyway ;D if Bick rating is positive or negative  ;D he is acting like Avalon business is on his Mersey. ridiculous  ;D 

Well to his credit he doesn't just act like that towards Avalon, he's also quite vocal when it comes to BFL, even if he's never successfully managed a project through the entire engineering design cycle himself.

Loshia is on my ignore for a reason and we will leave it at that. He has little of interest to add to my motives for being pissed off at Avalon.

I stand by my statement and as a former customer of Avalon if they want to rehab their rep in this community they might want to start again with an explanation and an apology. I doubt that will happen but let us see what they say. Unlike others I would not and have not used Avalon chips because of the damage it has caused so many good engineers. Removing a negative trust rating for Ngzhang is dependant on his actions with regards to coming clean to the community and making amends. That is the least they could do given the millions lost and has absolutely nothing to do with me personally but has to do with the fact I was also WRONGED as a customer and it almost cost our group 160,000 USD in losses. You won't see me lining up for Avalon, Hash Fast or BFL chips free or not as I would avoid them at all costs and have avoided them at all costs because ethically it is the right thing to do.

Now Loshia... he doesn't seem to mind dealing with people that are ethically challenged as a early and ardent supporter of BFL and more recent support of others who have questionable records in dealing with customers he should watch throwing stones in the glass house he lives in.

As somebody relatively new to bitcoin mining and the entire bitcoin community I find it hard to believe so many people fall for pre-buy scams over and over again.

That would suggest to me that if you pre-buy and get the right company that delivers on time there is a lot of btc to be made ?

In closing it seems obvious to me that greed gets the best of many of us including myself with Black Arrow :).

Steve

1. Why you read my posts as long as I am in yor ignore list? Funny a?
2. You can read my posts abut BFL then. I am too tired to look for them now. In short I said many times that Bfl are zero and a proxy between china and US. speaking of dealing with ethically challenged persons I am wondering what is the status of your cooperation with Zipkin and AMT. they are most ethical and honest company right now with rating beating BFL ;D
3. I am happy with my glass house and it will not brake. I am wondering how long will you be able to pump the ballon  of your project asking people to work for free and pay membership fee as a bonus ;D  My admirations ....that is a brilliant idea bick ;D

Background for others since Loshia has wished death on people (AMT threads) and loled at the misery (just read through his various posts and see his statements of uselessness) I am responding and making myself his personal troll until he posts useful things or just leaves. Sorry for spamming your thread but I want him to go away. Hopefully the community understands the reasons for this and assists in getting rid of this useless hunk of shit.

@LOSHIA  again no useful comments. loshia is a troll and useless human being. Nothing of value to say. I am not a corporation. I don't have any promises to fulfill. Noone is paying me. But I do take great joy in making you look like the sadistic ass you are. You have wished death on people. You have practically loled at the misery of the AMT customers. I want to make you look like the pathetic sack of shit you are. Since you love taking pleasure in other peoples pain I will make sure you feel some too. Like I said I will make it my fucking mission to discredit you in every fucking thread.

For the record I am fucking relentless when I want to be. You will know the meaning of emotional pain with me following your every move on this forum. Consider that. You will lose ALL credibility with your stupid ass hero status. I warned you I will be your personal fucking troll UNLESS you post something useful. And you have not yet. I will simply pass over any actual useful thing (which I have yet to find) and reply to your useless posts.