Bitcoin Forum

Yesterday I joined the forum, and after 1 post I got negative trust just because someone don't trust me.
How can someone say "I don't trust you!" after one post and accuse you that you are promoting a product?


The thread name is: Which VPN to pick?  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5225792.0

1st post ever in bitcointalk forum:

Very easy
You are just a fake newbie, and you are not being persecuted, just NOT trusted by me.
http://archive.ph/iZHsh

Trust feedback is not permanent, and it can change...in future.

I agree with you! I'm newbies and write a simple message and it was deleted. Why? there was no ads, nothing strange. I'm just new there.

That was a nice welcome to the forum indeed …

The VPN you state you are using, since it’s a Brave extension, I’d assume it’s not a proper VPN, but rather much a proxy. Regardless, that is not really the issue, nor the nature behind at this stage. I may not like your proposal (as others on the VPN thread), but that does not qualify for negative Trust in my book.

Trust feedback’s main aim is on providing feedback for economical transactions. This here does not quality as such, since it is an opinion based on "poor criteria" (as per the tagger’s criteria). If we go by poor criteria we’d probably have to tag the majority of accounts here on the forum at some point, mine included.

Now some people tag others for reasons related to scams, and here we fall on the frontier of what the Trust system covers in intent. Indeed if someone is deliberately trying to scam others, there is an economical nature under the surface, and therefore using Trust tagging is applicable in principle, providing there is solid evidence that the intent is to scam, and the intent here for me is key. Here I do not consider that you had an intent of the nature.

Tagging is also used for all sorts of other reasons, which it should not, and at some point, it would be better to have a dual system: one for economical feedback and one for other type of feedback (such as "nice guy", "dumb troll" and so forth). That nevertheless is a different matter, and we only have the current system to go with (along with the Trust Flag system which is more to the point on economic issues in principle).

It’s probably best to read the whole post I’m going to extract here, but I’m highlighting the core principle of the ratings here as per the real one above all (on the forum):
Bearing that in mind, negative trust here is uncalled for in my opinion.

The main problem is that not that many people know the exact usage to apply to the Trust System, and that makes the textboxes’s content spin away from the system’s intent. There is also no real hardcore concensus on all that is applicable, regardless of what the quoted text above states.

Nope newbies are not persecuted here. The problem is that many scammers and malicious people create accounts to trick people here so some people have trust issues.

Negative feedback is given at a personal level so you have to discuss with whoever left you feedback and prove to them you have no evil intentions. I personally wouldn't leave someone negative feedback at first glance until i am more than sure that there is malicious intent because i know how painful it is to be accused of something you are not.

I got the impression that if you just registered here, then you are like nobody here. So in principle it is, but I would like posts to not be deleted. For example, my post was published in the topic about Bitcoin and decentralization, here is the text:

As for me I still believe in bitcoin decentralization. Especially I believe more and more after all the events with money and banks in the world..

so what's wrong???

That is your opinion, but I participated in discussion about VPN, and you did not.
He created new account with specific purpose to promote this specific shitVPN and posted 3 minutes after registration.

https://i.imgur.com/mudh6u1.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/klzizTq.jpg

Your post was probably reported for "low content value" (aka spam to some extent). That is one of the main reasons for post getting deleted, and although many posts of the kind will remain undeleted, some are reported and, if the moderator agrees, will be removed.

I’d suggest to elaborate more on your opinion there. The above is a simple one-liner summary, but I’m sure if you rattle your brain a bit more you’ll come up with a better versed and argument-backed type narrative in your post.

Bottom line is that posts that are social media chat-type (Telegram,WhatsApp, and so forth) fall short here in general, as the forum is more on discussing with a wee futher depth than on social platforms.

Precisely. The forum is opinion based, and therefore we can differ. For rules and DT stuff there are hints on how they apply, and as such, I consider that @theymo’s quoted post is applicable to my standards. Again, you’re free to differ.

Note: I’ve read the VPN thread before providing the above answer, No need to participate there to gather the context I needed.
Whatever...

You shouldn't only make post just only believe, i agree, etc.
This is same example if you post only say "Bitcoin will pump to $999999999999999999999....." but you didn't say the reason or the point of your post.
Try to learn and read much more in this forum before you want to make post
You should read the rules to make you more understand https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

True.
But I can judge situation better than you (in this case),
and as I said my feedback can change easy if I am proven wrong.

or ~KiD~ can just continue to use his other accounts in this forum

This topic is best fitted for the Reputations Board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=129.0) so as to get more input for other DT members. OP move it there if you don't mind.

I just did a small search on the cause of conflict which is SetupVPN and while i can not confirm how good it is or endorse it. It has quite a number of users using it's extension. so if that is OP's choice then let him use it.

@dkbit98 i think there is no need of tagging OP just because he said he prefers using SetupVPN unless you have proof that they are scammers or are malicious. Remember you are of DT and every single decision you make can have a ripple effect.
If you have been very observant, look at the older members. Some even voluntarily wanted to get blacklisted from DT because of the aftermath of their earlier actions.

I always keep echoing this. If we go one tagging each and every new person here just because they mentioned or promoted a website we never used or don't know then we are headed for a bad atmosphere for genuine newbies.
Just remember that we were all newbies at one point. Let's go slow when making decisions to tag  ;)

He can use whatever he wants, BUT creating new account just to promote and recommend that product - NO.
As far as I know he can be some gov. agent or spy so I will not help him to get data from all bitcointalk users.
If you want to do so be my guest.

He obviously have other accounts here, and he can use them if he wants to talk.

This type of feedback is unwarranted from DT period. You wanna give anything it should be a neutral rating, but giving a neg is IMO abusing the trust system. Is the VPN stealing users info or scamming someone? If so, then red tag him. If not, change to neutral.

OK changed to neutral.

You should maybe also change a bunch of your feedback Yahoo.
Remember that you are also DT and campaign manager.
Remember Yobit campaign?

Period.

Point out which feedbacks you feel should be changed and i'll have a look. As far as Yobit goes, you have the option to tag me, ~ me, or go on with life. I asked for community opinion before opening that particular campaign. You may or may not have posted your opinion, but those who did post(other DT members), were for a manager vs no manager.

No need to get testy man. I can take criticism without getting mad.

I am not being mad and I can be wrong, as I said my feedback can change easily,
but more mess was created with that campaign with ripple effects.
If you trust Yobit exchange and ~KiD~ that is your choice.

For example are you being mad here or not?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2688418

Is this Scam accusation still valid?
I was involved in similar case but I changed my feedback to neutral.

We are getting off topic here, but that particular case is not the same as this 1. Roobet accepted a bet(their own coding flaw), I won the bet, they refused to pay it. They stole 9k and lost a player over it. I did not go nuts in their gambling thread and try to ruin their business. I posted a thread stating what happened, left a fair rating due to the fact they just dismissed my claim, and went on about my business.

Glad they paid you, but the case was not the same for me.

Other DT members also don't agree with you, not just me.
And I did ask Roobet several times to talk with you.

Back to the ~KiD~ case:
He now has neutral feedback and I am monitoring him.
Lets see if he is a genuine innocent newbie or something else.

What should be debated, opinions, suspicions or whatnot.

VPN: All have their own opinions.

See the boss who said it;


now what is the conclusion.....

---

Problem with SetupVPN I've seen this account that post: suggested it.

evan45245 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1810308)


however...

I don't know anything about SetupVPN, but it doesn't sound like OP is promoting it, just giving his opinion about it (albeit in a pretty low-value post).  I don't think he should have gotten tagged for that.  It might look like he created an account for the purpose of shilling that VPN, but it could well be the first thread he saw that caught his eye.

And no, OP, newbies usually aren't given an instant red trust like you got.  As I said, I don't think you were deserving of a neg--but we'll see what the rest of the community has to say.

I am not against VPN.
When asked what VPN to use in that topic I posted my answer with multiple reviews and comparisons.
What triggered me to give feedback to this KID is that after me and  o_e_l_e_o o
said specific bad things  regarding that VPN, KID registers and pops up again with same 'reliable' VPN recommendation.

Now, my intention was to protect any other real newbies from using that VPN, but anyone can use whatever shit they want in the end.

I rest my case, as I am not a fan of endless Reputation wars.

I am not agree for negative feedback on that case. Since OP was newbie a warning via PM would be appropriate. And its seems @dkbit98 and some others already explained to OP about that VPN. Newbies won't expert always what they should post and what they shouldn't post. If there is no obvious scam case then we shouldn't treat newbies with red tag IMO.

However, neutral isn't harmful so it's fine for now. Just keep him in eye if he is shilling again. Posting VPN related thread about VPN at once wouldn't consider as shill.

Hey, i spent some time researching the best vpn to use, and brave is a very widely used an higjly recommended.
May be this member has made a small error.
What happens if you get a negative trust? You can post messages and read but not sell items ?
If you dont want to sell items or trade you will not find any disadvantage.
The rules are allowing vpn but you may pay to join a small fee to start of micro satoshi.
Not a good start for you im sorry.
I notice not negative right now and change to black not red. All is okay dont be persecuted.

Like The Pharmacist said that thread poped into my eyes because it was at the top of Beginers & Help section. I have nothing to do with the thread initiator - you can ask an admin to check our IP - since ironically (if we look at the subject we duscuss) I don't use VPN to connect to this forum.

About:
"When asked what VPN to use in that topic I posted my answer with multiple reviews and comparisons.
What triggered me to give feedback to this KID is that after me and  o_e_l_e_o o
said specific bad things  regarding that VPN, KID registers and pops up again with same 'reliable' VPN recommendation."

I didn't read the whole thread discussion, I didn't know you said is a bad VPN, I just answered the question.

To BubbleButtBabe
"What happens if you get a negative trust? You can post messages and read but not sell items ?"

I don't trade anything in here, but I don't like when someone puts the tag: "not trusted shitVPN promoter" without any proof, just because he feels it.

Far too many people on DT these days with itchy trigger fingers :-\

Simply voicing an opinion (albeit a fairly naive one), shouldn't result in a user getting tagged... red or otherwise. If they had continued to "shill" for SetupVPN by continually posting the same stuff regarding SetupVPN and actively promoting it etc after being educated that this particularly VPN service is not great, then I could probably understand a tag.

But to come out swinging with a trust rating based on a single post, and a simple hunch that this is an alt account with absolutely zero proof is inappropriate in my opinion. I'm glad the rating was at least downgraded to a neutral... I still don't agree with the wording though.

I really don't see any reason for a negative tag, not even a neutral tag is needed here. OP may be or not be promoting SetupVPN but even if he is trying to promote that, why he can't be trusted?
How many of us are having enough analysis before promoting a project? Very few indeed. dkbit is promoting GOLD backed stablecoin, did he ever analyzied if they are real or not? No personally attack bud but just trying to point that if such things deserve neg tag then probably more than 90% of the forum user will get neg tag.

I am also a victim of @dkbit's harassment. This user gave me untrusted feedback for no reason.
Though I'm not an account seller but he tagged me. I think he is abusing the trust system or he is an attention seeker and wanted to be DT2 member by doing such kind of nasty thing.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226886.0

I have not examined deeply the entire reason for the red tag. Any memeber that is unhappy with the subjective use of the tagging system can join the guild that aims to ensure objective transparent and fair standards are upheld.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226886.0

The tag looks neutral now but to prevent further upset join the guild. Pass the word on to any other members that may be interested.

If it's spam, you can report it as such. I'm with DdmrDdmr on this: it shouldn't receive negative feedback.

You could be right on the VPN, and I wouldn't dare touch it myself, but a simple post under his post would have been enough. He might even change which VPN he uses by himself. I'm not convinced it's an alt-account created just to promote the VPN. Let's see if we can turn him into a real Bitcointalk user :)

Like I said many times, I can change my feedback if proven wrong, and it was changed to neutral.
I see now that some members complain even with neutral feedback and incorrect wording.
For this purpose, I asked in forum to have some kind of personal private part of feedback system that only I can see, like some kind of notes. :/

I can only hope wounds from my terrible actions will heal quickly, and that KID can become a proper member.

You could make a spreadsheet for personal notes on users that is only seen by you.

Or ask for it to be added to the BPIP Extension (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5224821.0). It might actually work :)

I can do that, but it would be lost and not used all the time.


Yeah man! I would use that 100%
Maybe that can help me to switch over from the 'dark side force' to light   8)

Nice to see a willingness to change your tags and de-esculate. Sensible and reasonable behavior.
Should have merit.

Let's see...
Thanks for the Merits, I don't think this thread deserved any merits, but I think is just as an encouragement move.

It sparked some discussion and doesn't look like spam. That's enough for me :)

dkbit98 might a little bit trigger happy on giving you a feedback but seeing how the thread plays out it was wrong for you to suggest a free kind of VPN when the OP is already open for suggestions for paid ones since he is already using NordVPN which is a paid VPN. The replies from you on that thread were all correct everything about Free VPNs being a spyware is all true since the data you are inputting during the use of their service is being monetize by them, they won't really be a free service without any kind of catch at the end. My advice is make this mistake as some kind of lesson that you just don't suggest any kind of service just because you are using them, you must make sure that they are reliable and secure for other users so that you won't look like someone who is just promoting a service.

I will follow your advice, even if I don't like this.
Why I don't like this? Well I thought this forum is about sharing experiences and knowledge, without the need to guarantee for what others made/did (in this case the VPN software).

P.S. What mistake?

Persecuted I wouldn't say because is a bit too much, but ignored (in my case) and maybe treated with superiority (in your case).

I am feeling ignored because I reported some connected accounts in  this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg53863683#msg53863683) and no one with higher rank took any measure. No red tag, nor ban while some other posts following mine, got read and cheaters were tagged/banned or posters merited. So mine looks like skipped or ignored. Just saying...

Just having an alt account is not a reason for red tag or ban. Did you prove in your report that those accounts joined the same bounty campaign? If you can do that, I'll gladly tag them for bounty campaign abuse. Another thing, don't hesitate to leave feedback on someone even though you are not DT member, and remember to leave reference, it might help the others.
About the merit, sometimes you get the merit, sometimes you don't. Same goes for everyone, not just Newbies.

Regarding OT and his question about newbies being persecuted,  huge majority of newbie accounts are made for some type of scam or other shady behavior, so people will be extra careful and suspicious. Nothing personal.

Yes I did and also proven the connections. He joined the same campaign with all 3 accounts see my report here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg53863683#msg53863683

As for the merit, I pointed out that because this is how I figured out my report was skipped. Meaning the subsequent ones were read.  ;D

Later edit: Ahh... I'm not a newbie anymore  :D cool stuff

Thanks, it’s becoming clearer to me. I thought the forum is a place where you can express your opinion too, but I understood the message about the format.

But that does not guarantee that you won't tag him again when and if he has an opinion which you consider wrong, be it wrong or not.


Does that mean you trust everyone else whom you have not tagged? It is safe to assume that 99% of forum members don't trust 99% of other forum members, this does not give them the right to tag everyone they feel they can't trust.

IMO, even your neutral feedback is invalid, with all due respect, being a forum member I don't really care who don't you trust, I care about who is a proven scammer or at least has a very high chance of scamming, the rest is rather your 'well respected' personal opinions that shouldn't be on anyone's feedback page.

Why the f. you tag and quote me, and dig-up this topic?
Did you fill up your chipmixer signature quote.... good for you.
I don't care much about your opinion dude so don't quote me again please.
Thanks

I don't understand what do you mean by "tag", anyway, I did not dig the topic, it is on the first page of reputation and I "for fun" read all comments, and wanted to point out the wrongdoing of a DT member, I can't think of a better way of doing this.


I don't think I need your permission to do so and if you don't want to see my posts, you can IGNORE them, I find it amusing how a DT member gets mad over other members opinions regarding his behavior in the forum, you might be fighting scammers and doing a great job but all of that does not give you an "immunity" from criticism. Sorry you got mad, was not my intention, I was simply practicing my rights as a forum member.  


Welcome.