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Was thinking China had and or has dirty wet markets. 
Filled with sick animals being sold for food.
Corona-v has been traced to a wet market in WuHan.
This virus will cost deaths illness and ton and tons of money world wide.

Many countries have loans from China. 
So do they simply tell China no loan payments until you take responsibility for spread of corona-v.

USA president  Donald Trump has called corona-v a foreign virus.
Is this the beginning of a strategy for USA to not pay its debt to China?
Do other countries follow this move.

Will the world go after China or not?

But not to the food there.

The idea that the virus is actually an untested rogue vaccine seems to be gaining credence. Now we need to find out which of the Pharma companies created it, and dumped it on the unsuspecting public in China. Was it deliberate? Who knows?

Some will, but they would be wrong.
Yes it happened to start there, but so what. It's a global economy and things are going to spread stupid fast across the world now.
The issue and what they should take some of the hit for is the delay in dealing with it. (but we in the US can't really throw stones at that one)

Did we blame the British for Creutzfeldt-Jakob (mad cow)?

-Dave

Come on - British beef was some of the safest in the world at that time. Any hint of infection in a herd, and the whole herd was burnt. European countries were burying the infected cows, or, worse still, slaughtering them and adding them into the food chain. British food quality and standards dropped when we came under the control of the EU, and it is going to be a struggle to regain those standards once we have got rid of its insanity and vested interests of the EU federalists.

Don't know what planet you are living on but it's not the same as mine.
GB might have had the ILLUSION of safe / safest. However they were not testing for it. Now these next few words are important. NOBODY WAS TESTING.
So by the time it was known how bad it was (And still is) it was too late and and had spread.

Same with corona-v it looks like a nasty version the flu, it behaves like a nasty version of the flu, once it came out that it was not the flu it was all over. Because it was out of China and spreading. Especially with the long incubation period.

Think about it. If within 72 hours of the 1st cases coming out of China they began a lock-down it was already too late.
14 day incubation period, +/- a few days. Then figure out who came into contact with whom and it's all over the world.

Actually might have made it worse, because when you did get a cluster. Be it just north of NYC or parts of Italy or anyplace else. NOBODY would go "oh fuck, corona" they would go. Crap this flu case really sucks. Take some tamiflu, and go about their day possibly spreading it more.

Either way it's fun to sit here and watch all the "doomsday preppers" freak out about how prepared they are and then cry like little bitches when they find out that surfaces in their bunker tested positive for it because their spouse just tested positive for it also after they were in their bunker doing inventory.

-Dave

Wait until you find out what goes on in Western pig farms.  Its all probability.  Viruses are just more likely to come out of China because its the biggest country which means viruses have the most chances to mutate there.

They should not be held responsible for virus to come out in their region but they are to blame for ignoring all the warning, remember Doctor Li Wenliang who died from the virus already told the government about this virus but instead of taking his advice he was restricted and detained now China and the world suffers because they are late in containing this virus and it's because of their ignorance.

Read the story here
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/whistleblower-chinese-doctor-dies-from-coronavirus

a virus isnt necessarily something bad, chorona will also have a lot of good effects, in the developed world.

The world owes China a lot of money, but it is also borrowing a lot of money from China on an ongoing basis. If the world were to stop honoring its debts to China, it would need to be ready to not borrow additional money from China.

The biggest barrier to holding China responsible is the fact that economic supply chains can be traced to China. In an all-out economic war with China, they could respond by banning exports, which would cripple most of the world economies. This includes the production of some material required to produce certain medicines and anti-biotics.

Until this supply chain issue is resolved, I don't see China being held responsible in any meaningful way. I would not find it unreasonable for supply chains to be fairly quickly moved out of China after the coronavirus has been resolved.

I would not hold China responsible simply because the virus originated within China. Assuming the coronavirus is not manmade, the virus originating in China is not the Chinese government's fault. The reason I would want to hold the Chinese government responsible is that they suppressed information about the virus for so long, and they censored people who were trying to warn the public about the virus. 

muslims, africans and nongerman europeans will do that, especially if someone comes out with a vaccine for that virus they will continuously attack china and demand to pay for that to vaccine the entire world

  No but it  is an avoidable problem if you don't eat beef.  While this disease if harder to avoid.

Many have claimed the bio tech lab working in wuhan sold lab rats etc to the wet markets thus the problem would be China's fault if it was proven to be that.

I suppose you could blame farmers butchering sick cattle and feeding them to the public if  proven.

I just thought it was interesting that Trump called corona-v a foreign virus.  I kind of think he will attempt to blame China for the issue. Use it to not pay USA loans from China until China gives a discount to make up for hurting the USA with the spread-creation of corona-v.

But I am way below Trump's pay grade or anyone else for that matter so you could be correct.

I thought this was relevant here:

And as if on cue in an effort to get out ahead  of my poll's question China is saying:



Hmm   could India be the winner lots of cheap available labor for manufacturers .



please note my poll was based on Trump calling this a foreign virus.

It is obvious China fears Trump(and others) will want $$$ for damages or they would not be tossing counter rhetoric.

german research institute is developing a corona vaccine americans are trying to get the rights over it, if whole third world will eternally blame china and demand china to pay for all their vaccinations germany will get rich as shit or the us company that owns the rights.

Would you release the virus in the same location as the lab?  Your (crackpot) theory makes no sense.

Sure it does. Plausible deniability. "It leaked out by accident. Don't attack us please, it was a mistake we promise." You know what is even better than crackpot theories? Letting everyone else do your thinking for you and waiting for permission to think.

You are the kind of guy who would see three seedy looking guys in a dark alley, and go down it anyway because there is no evidence they are going to rob and murder you. You are little more than a domesticated animal in human form waiting to have your throat slit and your blood drained before butchering.

You attack me because you are a coward unwilling to look at the horrors right in front of your eyes. Anyone who doesn't have their head firmly lodged up their ass just like you, you perceive as a threat because any exposure to free thought pokes holes in your carefully cultivated willful escapist ignorance. All of the impotent lashing out in the world is not going to brow beat me into being a mindless meat sack like you, so save it.

Hey slimeball, where is:  "they shouldn't but will"?

That is the category which most idiots who get their news from the highly choreographed 'social media platforms' and Western mainstream news.  The whole 'wet market' schtick was either not believed in the first place or fell apart some time ago to people who have a vague understanding of how this stuff works.

By the way, I would not doubt that the virus has an origin with one which is common in the pangolin.  That is not at all the same thing as the 'wet market'.  For about 100 years people working on 'weaponizing' microbes call themselves 'animal research centers'.  This is quite accurate.  They inevitably scour the animal kingdom for useful starting points.  Then when they get a promising lead they used animals for development, cultivation, and testing.  Most known weaponized biological agents were developed in this way and most biological weapons labs are called 'animal disease research centers.'

Pangolins are wild animals.  The opportunity for a coronavirus with so many random 'gain of function' properties developing in one of the creatures and making the jump to humans is tiny compared to domesticated animals of which there are billions living in close communication with humans and other domesticated animals.  The likelyhood that bioweapons scouts researching promising starting points and finding one in a naturally occurring coronavirus population which happens to be specific to pangolins is not outrageous at all.  Especially if it is a chimera virus with fragments from multiple doners.

I think that wet markets are not going to go away. Also, much of the world owes China in loans and such. I think some people will try to blame China just like China is trying to push propaganda. I don't think any major actions will be taken such as saying they won't pay China their loans.

I wonder if China got to know about it only in December as by the time the news came out, the infected people must have already left the country and so how did other countries not get to know about this Coronavirus and spread the news before that?

If there is evidence implicating them for having engineered it it's very much possible!

Remember lives have been lost and people want answers to what killed their loved ones. Otherwise let's first find a vaccine then try find the cause of all this!

I did not attack you.  I criticized your idea. I think your 'theory' does not make sense.  

If this virus was made in the military lab, the military would release it in the NY subway, not in the local wild game market.
Nobody would know that the Chinese released it, the Jihadists would be blamed.  Some Muslim Jihadists would take responsibility.

Did the Chinese government take responsibility for 'this leakage'? No.  

Leakages say that the government wanted to cover this situation.
Remember the Wuhan doctor who died, a whistleblower but they were being suppressed.
If only their government acted appropriately, the effect might not be this huge.
I don't think Chinese will hold responsible with this situation.
As early as now, some of their officials are blaming the US Army to be the real cause of this virus. ::)

People are just losing their lives now but no vaccine has been made to cure it i feel China is liable for the Coron-V. I saw within the last news that the virus originated with China's hand. And spread everywhere the planet. they need kept it a secret and haven't yet discovered the precise drug of China and therefore the virus China is liable for all of this, spreading the virus to wildlife.

It's still a mystery till now where exactly did the virus spread some news in social media says it came from a woman eating a bat and some say the origin was with a man who came from US that has a pneumonia like disease. But the fact that china's hygiene including wet markets are very horrible, some chinese in our country goes for a number 2 in public places.
So i think the chinese government should re-educate their citizens in terms of hygiene.

I'm sure that China can't be held accountable for coronavirus pandemic. Such kind of polemic may lead to terrorism. It's more important to do all possible to stop the pandemic now. Blaming won't help here.

I don't think so, but it is true that it has started from there. Now it would not be right to accuse China in this

When it's over, if there is any freedom left in the world, the US Government is responsible. Why? So far, all the proof that you have seen is hearsay. The whole CV thing is a hearsay fear thing.

In China, there is so much poison be sprayed to kill rodents and bats and cockroaches, that nobody can tell for sure if it is the poison that is killing people or something else.

The REAL killing will begin when average people realize that CV isn't a problem. The killing will be done by the military and police who shoot people who are breaking the ineffective lockdowns.

And I'm not talking  about China lockdowns and police killings. I'm talking about the so-called free world killings that will start to happen, if they haven't started already.

You can't believe the news that comes out of China. They don't have freedom of speech over there. It's all government produced propaganda.

8)

Don't be so sure. They should be held responsible.
The virus has traces of SARS that has not been seen for years and that also originated in China. Do you really believe that after dealing with SARS epidemic they simply left it at that and kept living their lives? They were conducting extensive research at all fronts to make use of all possible applications, and those include biological warfare. Covid-19 is a mutated version of SARS, an enhanced version. For this reason SARS was contained in Asia and Covid hit the whole world. Probably the only weakness of this virus is hot and dry air that kills it fast and slows the spread.

A Chinese doctor (if I recall correctly it was the one who first announced about the coronavirus, which was arrested afterwards and died soon after) said that the virus started from China, but it may have foreign origins.

A few days ago, on March 13th, the Chinese newspaper South China Morning Post wrote that actually, the first infected was found on November 17th, 2019. The authorities tried to cover up everything until they couldn't anymore, in December. On December 31st there were already 266 infected people.

Now let's remember also that between 18-27 October 2019, in Wuhan took place the Military World Games. Some soldiers couldn't participate, accusing "a strange pneumonia", as an US congressman said at that time, his words being quoted now by the Chinese newspaper.

Now having all this information: could it be that the virus was planted there by the sick US soldiers which were sent to Wuhan for the Military World Games?

This is quite a peculiar point. I mean, I's quite believable it was intentionally brought to China

I personally find it quite believable because of the behavior patterns of Trump and his team.

Whether intentional or not, more and more circumstantial evidence, and more and more hard science is stacking up indicating that the first cases occurred in the United States.

From the Trump side all we have is 'because we say so' type assertions that 'China is to blame' with no evidence provided.  They seem to be relying almost exclusively on a sense of patriotism where in order to be a 'red-blooded American' one has to believe with conviction anything uttered by an American official.

I considered this still to be in the conspiracy theory category. If it was intentionally planted by the US soldiers, US should have the vaccine by now and not relying from other pharma companies to produce one. If only Chinese have been more open regarding the investigations before it spreads globally, maybe they have already identified the real source of it. Now that the whistleblower died and many others, how can they make a thorough investigation for what had happened?

One version of a timeline (with links):  https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/03/16/coronavirus-the-plot-thickens-with-timeline-review/

Here's a part of it:


Edit:  Here's a link to Romanoff's latest article:

  https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-all-truth-three-stages/5706329 (https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-all-truth-three-stages/5706329)


----

I'll again present the hypothesis I put forward at the start of this thing probably several months ago now:

 - Third country attacks, or using their control over U.S. government apparatus makes uses the U.S. to attack China.  Also leaves a wide trail of bread-crumbs leading back to the U.S..  (Bolton's departure is still shrouded in mystery by the way.)

 - China counter-attacks the U.S. in kind.

 - Both the U.S. and China are severely weakened or perhaps destroyed in the conflict.  Rest of 'the nations' suffer significant collateral damage.

 - Third country steps in to fill the vacuum.

The world should be thanking China for slowing the spread and giving an early model for how to effectively slow the spread.   The western media should be apologizing for smearing the Chinese government for taking immediate action that saved millions of lives. 
https://i.imgflip.com/3tqlxk.jpg

Next time someone throws a molotov through your window and then comes in and helps you and your family get outside before you all burn to death, don't forget to thank him.

The Chinese government should first explain from which lab did this virus escape and why they were experimenting with SARS.

Were they trying to make a vaccine? Was this a containment breach? There's no denying that it came from their Wuhan province which is situated deep in the mainland.

The local govt of Hubei should be blamed for suppressing the info making severe consequeces. How could I thank these mfkers in the first place?

However in the other hand,I don't think that would make a valid justification for the incapability of western govt. No preparation was made by them. They simply wasted nearly two months time.

Besides, your pic only shows part truth.
Situations varied even in the same city of Wuhan. Some residents there got fair priced provision like what is said in the pic, but some others in Wuhan got food for extreme high prices. Because several local service providers (often low rank commie officials) made the lock down a good oportunity to make money by charging ridiculous transport fees.

Did the world hold the USSR responsible for Chernobyl?
The problem is no longer the virus itself, but the fact that it was hidden at an early stage. No one knows what is happening inside China, they are too closed and do not want to tell anyone anything.
We can't even say for sure whether 1.4 billion people actually live in China - because this figure is too high if you count all the losses for the 20th century, including the "cultural revolution" and other reformations. China is definitely to blame for the situation that we see - but the root cause is its total closeness in matters of information about the population, the REAL life of people and other things.
Just remember the Uighurs and the rumors that turned out to be true about them

I accept as true with you it's really strange because everyone knows that China is liable for this virus. But nobody can say anything. China itself couldn't think that its impact was so high and that they themselves were greatly affected.

+1 to this. China couldn't have known that the virus was going to turn out this way, but they SHOULD'VE let the public know that they were having an outbreak of some kind earlier. Not saying that would've changed anything, but it COULD have changed things.

I know that there have been reports and estimates regarding what could've been different if China had reported this earlier and hadn't just tried to cover it up. (Article Link - https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-and-cover-up-ee65211a-afb6-4641-97b8-353718a5faab.html)

As an aside to this, China is currently reporting 0 new infections, which I think is bullshit. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/as-china-virus-cases-near-zero-experts-warn-of-second-wave)

LOL this is all bullshit
I absolutely do not trust China in terms of statistics about the situation - I am sure that things are much worse there
Thank you to the Party for a happy start of 2020!

I love how we all know that we cant trust China for literally anything -- think GDP stats -- but then you have some people being like "L000000K AT CHINA THEY'RE DOING A GREAT JOB" They're not doing a great job, they're literally fucking lying about their numbers like everyone else and they can get away with it because they control the media. If you're in China and you want to report against the government, you're going to die. That's just how that works.

US intelligence is now reporting and CONFIRMING that China lied regarding their coronavirus stats. - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-01/china-concealed-extent-of-virus-outbreak-u-s-intelligence-says

Trump is also saying that he can't confirm if Chinas coronavirus numbers are legitimate - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-says-he-cant-confirm-chinas-coronavirus-case-numbers-amid-accusations-of-underreporting-we-really-dont-know

CHYNA CHYNA CHYNA.

One way to approach understanding this is to look at how regions of Russia reported their progress during the Cold War on their "Five Year Plans". Half lies all the way up the chain of command.

So rather than thinking the highest levels of China were lying to you (maybe they were, maybe they were not) you can absolutely count on those in charge of various towns and villages fudging the numbers they were sending upstream.

Another complicating factor is that culturally, Chinese don't go to doctors until they are practically fixing to die. A LOT of them are into herbal medicine, or herbal first, Western second. And this particular disease, I don't think it's very forgiving if you hit the hospital about day 10 of an infection.

Just some comments, for what they are worth...

for all to know.. timeline of events
from hindsight prospective
first patient reported feeling mildly bad on december 10th and went to a local clinic for normal flu meds and went back to work
(at this point no one knew how bad it was, no alarm needed raising)

he was hospitalised on december18th because it got worse for him and having breathing issues
(at this point no one knew how bad it was(transmittable/containable), no alarm needed raising)

it wasnt for another 3 weeks where other patients came into hospital with similar issues before they realised it was infectious/transmittable and sever for them to then raise the alarm on january 9th

any raising the alarm before that would have just possibly been causing panic before actually knowing.
i think 3 weeks from first hospitalisation till world knowing is good timing.

.. however..
UK/US knew january 9th..
yet UK/US were still even in march (8+ weeks later) still trying to say to their citizens if they live in another country or in china, come back to home countries.
it was actually america that brought it back to america by chartering 'repatriation' flights(same with UK)

also. in its first week of march UK/america have still not even got stock/space for having excess ICU beds and equipment.
also. in its first week of march UK/america have still not even asked manufacturers to make more ventilators

ok. so its now april and still hospitals want more stock. more support.

all UK/US/china could do was delay the spread happening all in one go of 100% of people in 2 months. which even with a 1% more than mild severity. would be alot of resourses needed.

this self isolation is not to cure corona or to immunise the masses magically in their own home. its to delay the spread before letting people go out.

i just find it a shame that china was prepped in february and is now in the ready to accept more patients stage. but UK/US are still not ready 2 months later

if you think that US/UK should blame china for US/UK 2 month delay. then thats just silly.
asfor explaining the 3 weeks of december 18th-january 10th..
well no one knew in the initial week if it was food contamination. or touch contact spreading virus. nor realising if it was just affecting a couple people or potentially more than 0.01% of people

anyway. this is just the beginning of the spread. 99% of people have not even had it yet to even know if they will just have a cough or need a hospital.. yep just because your at home now self isolating to not get it now. doesnt make you immune for the future.

I just heard that an US lawyer sued China for creating thus coronavirus as a biological weapon and asking for 20 trillions USD - https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news/covid-19-biological-weapon-alleges-us-lawyer-sued-china. The news can be found on several websites.

20 trillions USD means 20.000 billions USD!!!

If this is true, I'm curious about the following:
- which judge would have the guts to analyze these claims
- if the lawyer wins, how will he convince China to pay him this amount.

After all, is just a man suing a nation. Is not a trial between USA and China, nor UN or EU against China. If a country / UN / EU would win such a trial, they could force China to pay somehow. Or, at least, to issue severe penalties for China in case China would not want to pay. But a man?! What can a man do to force China to pay him 20 trillions, in case he would win this trial?!

many lawyers do random lawsuits for huge amounts all the time. most never go anywhere

there will however be what is known as a public inquiry. which is were using hindsight everyone can learn from the past. and also find the mistakes.
work out if some mistakes were excusable (caution vs over reaction) and which mistakes are malpractice
after that. those affected by any malpractice stuff or anything. can then take it to court.

but for now anyone can file a claim for anything and any amount.. it does not mean things will en up in a guaranteed trial.

im not going to go into the ridiculous idea of that guys suit.
but if it had merit al local court he can escalate it to supreme, and then after that international court. where 'sanctions' can be put on a country

but these kind of silly ambulance chaser lawyers dont follow through or plan to. they just hope the other side pays up a small 1% just to go away

I'm kind of expecting the likes of Trump and Pompeo to use this excuse to welsh on paying off the treasuries or whatever that China bought and to appropriate any property and resources owned by Chinese nationals and Chinese firms both in the United States, and probably in other countries as well.  Africa for instance.

Probably these two won't even bother to 'bring the spoils' to the U.S..  They'll likely just hand it over to Israel right away.  Because Holocaust.

Maybe Elon Musk started Coronavirus. Why would he do this? To get people used to wearing facemasks, so that they could adapt to living on Mars easier. ;D


Here We Go Again: China Puts County On Lockdown After New Corona Cluster Emerges (http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/280063-2020-04-01-here-we-go-again-china-puts-county-on-lockdown-after.htm)




8)

China is now saving lives in NYC and all around the world.

https://apnews.com/24b8b30cbc11c43a19e7e7aff69e4044
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinese-doctors-and-supplies-arrive-in-italy-11584564673

China has too much economic leverage over the world for proper retaliation. The US already owes so much of their manufacturing industries to China so it's tough to go against a country that has your economy at it's grip. They're also taking advantage of the world wide pandemic and are conducting military exercises in the South China sea knowing that countries are using resources to fight coronavirus and aren't focused on military presence. China should absolutely pay for helping contribute to the worst pandemic in modern history and I imagine politicians are going to talk about retaliating against them and will proceed to do nothing, like usual.


They literally caused this. They aren't saving lives at all and if they weren't a communist shit hole, they could have prevented a large chunk of the damages thus far. Donating ventilators is the least they could do.

You mean kind of like how China has been doing daily for decades to foreign investors among others?



YES. THIS. This is exactly why I suspect they were responsible for this outbreak and it was intentional. This allows them to throw a wrench in the world economy and delay the world becoming independent of them at a time when the cracks are showing in their own economy, they are losing control of the population domestically, and their international facade is falling. This is China making a preemptive strike signalling the beginning open warfare.