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I gather that parliament is likely to pass an act in the near future, and this will attempt to force people over 70 to lock themselves in their homes. Well I'm 78, and they can shove that act up their fundament. It's over 50 years since I had any illness other than a one day cold, and I reckon that I have a lower risk for the CV than the fat lumps that need a walking stick to get from their cars to the surgery.

The only reason that they are targeting older people is that they have screwed up their health with statins, vaccinations and other poisons. Hopefully we can get some sensible statistical analysis about so called health care soon, and then we can move forward and benefit from the wealth of knowledge we have learnt about the workings of the body and its immune system. It has kept us going for a few milliion years, so it must have worked out the benefits.

Admirable bravery..

This is absolutely nonsense. There has to be some ulterior motive, perhaps what you have suggested but I suspect something more. I think part of it is they know this is they know this demographic will be the one putting the most strain on the public healthcare system. As a result they are probably trading your freedoms for a reduction in the strain on the medical system.

The really sad part of this injustice is it won't even help stem the spread. At most this would only provide a temporary reduction on the strain of the system. This pandemic is being used by governments all over the world to strip the people of their rights. This will not stop, they will keep doing it more and more and more. This disease is being used as a Hegelian strategy for totalitarians to take absolute control.

elderly people in their own homes wont be a big problem

its the retirement homes/communities which become the main incubators.
also its relatives that go visit elderly people that pass it around

walking the streets and having people pass by at a walking pace in the opposite direction wont have the time or distance to spread it. .. its the people that handshake, hug and kiss and stay within touching proximity for long conversational time that usually pass it on.
which is more about retirement homes and home care visitors and relatives

better advice would be to get families to call each other instead of visit their elderly relatives and kiss and hug them when you arrive/leave.

making it a law that prohibits elderly people from going to the shop would cause more of an issue around starvation and other things like paying for their 'key meter' electric/gas(pay as you use) meaning the elderly are more at risk of starving/ freezing than getting the flu

most retail stores have automatic opening doors so the risk of touching door handles of shops is low. someone would have to purposefully lick a door handle for that to be of risk.

so basically the main risk is family and care workers coming into close proximity for longer than just a passing glance

It isn't bravery, it's common sense. One of the things that helps one protect oneself against the virus is sunlight, so why would I want to keep myself out of that? The health service and government advice is rubbish at the moment. For example they are advising people to stock up on fever reducing medicine, and that is not what they should be doing - they should be increasing body temperature to fight the virus. The only reason to reduce body temperature is to try to avoid getting snatched and kept in rooms full of diseased people.

I hope the "news"papers are misreporting the facts again. They seem to be saying that a healthy 70 year old can be fined upto £1,000 for refusing to be quarantined. I thought we were supposed to be the victims not the threat. How can it be sensible to take a healthy person, and force them to live in a room full of diseased people. It would be far more sensible, and cheaper, to throw away all the disease generating vaccines, and teach people how to strengthen their immune systems.

I think this is kind of the point though. They accept that it can't really be contained and the virus will work its way through most of the population eventually, but by implementing isolation they can spread out the peak and so reduce the point of maximum pressure on the healthcare system... so doctors don't have choose who lives and dies, as in Italy (https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-italy-doctors-tough-calls-survival/).


Yes, government agencies will exploit this. Kind of like what happened after 9/11, with the Patriot Act and the massive overhaul of surveillance processes.

What really annoys me is this selection by age. In fact this is illegal in the UK, as you can't discriminate based on age these days - that;s the law. You only have to spend some time in McDonalds to see all the poor kids who have been crippled by vaccinations, pharmaceuticals that the mothers have taken, and dietary problems. They are the vulnerable ones, not the people over 60 who have managed to keep out of the clutches of the Pharmaceutical sales force ( known euphemistically as the health service)

Anyway this seems to have turned out well, as I took some shopping up to my friend on the hill. I found some Baxters vegetarian soups on offer, and those are her favourites, so she asked me to  get a box ( six of each variety). It's a good job I'm not young, as I had to carry them to the van. :) During a subsequent discussion, we decided that I would dig over a plot on her land, and we would create a prepper's vegetable garden for both of us. That's great news as long as I can keep the animals off the veg. She loves her wild animals, and the woodland is largely untouched, so there is a wide variety of families living there. I might have to ask you guys for some help and advice about this.

after chorona virus there will be a relived housing market in the aged developed world, and it will lead to a revitalisation of the market, also the amount of brexiteers will then be lower than the remainers and britain will be forced to continue a policy of people that already died, like likely you.

If you make a separate thread about this I would be happy to contribute.

If they have a fever then that's exactly what they should be doing. Change in core temperature for long periods of time, even if its minute can have drastic consequences. Your core temperature isn't suppose to fluctuate much at all, and can lead to cardiac arrest if not controlled. Even in hospitals they don't tend to raise or lower your temperature beyond the recommended values, and they merely try to contain your temperature in these ranges.

However, I will go on to say that people shouldn't be stockpiling medicine they don't need, and anyone that advises people to do this is creating a herd mentality. Which then encourages everyone to buy just for the sake of it which then leaves those in need without. For example, getting food in our family recently has proven difficult, although we did manage to do it on day 2, and our spend was roughly £30 when its usually in the hundreds. There's been a report of a robbery on a hospital in Denmark, and several minor fights breaking out within supermarkets. People, are simply being controlled by fear right now, and if anything has proven how selfish we can be.

ofcourse while standing in mcdonalds your going to see all the poor kids crippled by dietary problems.. your in friggen mcdonalds!!

its like walking into a womans toilets and complaining you only see women in there.
its like going to a train station and getting peed off that everyone you see seems to want to get on a train

...
anyway. its not some big conspiracy to lock people up. you can still go out to the store or have food delivered. its more of an advisory so that the government isnt blamed for doing absolutely nothing.
you will not see guys with guns shooting people for missing a curfew or being seen on the streets.

these advisories are more about allowing people to choose to stay at home without the burden of their employment or other appointments deciding to penalise a person for not turning up.
yep if your over 70 and decided to continue working. but now feeling sick. you dont ave to worry about losing your job if you take a month off

..
as for the age discrimination stuff.. sorry but age restrictions do apply
no free TV licence unless over a certain age, no free bus pass, not able to smoke or drink or gamble or vote unless above a certain age
minimum wage amounts differ if below or above 25.
unable to marry have sex below a certain age
not able to claim state pension below a certain age.
need i go on?. i think i made my point

Time to move to Belize. Belize has the same type of government as Britain, having gained their independence only in 1981. The difference is the freedom.

The freedom in Belize is like the Old West in the USA, except for modern facilities and machinery. The government almost leaves the people entirely alone.

And it isn't that hard to get a visa from Britain or the States to visit there... unless things have changed with the CV pandemic.

We should look it up, because the place is a great place to live even if NOT fleeing goofy laws at home.

8)

EDIT: Besides - for the benefit of franky1 in the above post - Belize is quite close to Panama, where we vould go visit Elwar and see his Seasteading set-up.

Badecker. maybe do some research. its obvious you are a drug taker so that should have been your first law to check.. and yep. you will get in trouble for it.

you also like to kiss ass alot. but sorry again. they are not pro-gay. so be very careful ass kissing
also they are restricting entry due to corona... so it may have helped if you done some research

The virus can't survive at temperatures above 27 degrees, and that is why the human body raises its core temperature. The immune system has evolved over millions of years, and the more we learn about it, the more wonderful it appears. We should learn to work with it, and to boost it, nit try to destroy it, or replace it. Unfortunately, drinking hot water with a slice of lemon in it doesn't make anybody rich, so the pharma companies have to try to move people away from that idea, and persuade them to become addicted to poisons like statins.

I've been looking at the papers this morning. Several of them show pictures of volunteers buting food and delivering it to people who are self isolating, or deemed to be vulnerable. Some are wearing masks, and some seem to be fairly close to the person opening the door, when they could leave the items on the doorstep. Not one of them was wearing gloves, and this would be the best protection in my opinion. In fact I bought some shopping for an elderly friend who is self isolating yesterday, and I've realised that I don't wear gloves. I've got a box of disposable nitrile gloves that are used by mechanics to guard against excessive exposure to oil. I'm thinking of wearing those to cut down the possibility of my transporting the virus. I'm aware that my frequent visits to public restaurants may expose me to virus contact. I've always washed my hands as a matter of basic hygiene. but I don't think this is sufficient to destroy the virus. I suspect water temperature may be more significant than soap in this case. Real information is fairly difficult to find. For example, there are many reports about the survival rate of the virus on cardboard, but almost no sites report that it can only live for a fifth of the time on copper.

I don't understand the R0 rating either. This seems to be the infection rate of the virus, but the most important factor in my opinion will be the number of people exposed to the infection, and this don't seem to be included in the calculation. For example, I am upstairs in a Costa coffee shop, and there id no other person here, and nobody has been here since I arrived. Whatever the rating of any infection that I might have, I'm not going to pass it on to anybody. Had I been caught up in a mad bun fight to purchase loo rolls, then even a virus with a low infection rate id likely to infect several people if I was a carrier.

[edit]
I found this article - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2703958
It looks as if it would be a good idea to wear the gloves to avoid the transfer of the virus.

jet cash. just to correct you your body works at 35 degrees.. so maybe you meant 37 not 27

and in another topic i told you that HOT lemon water only treats the throat but the latter 'core' of the body actually gets cooler once the liquid hits the stomach. thus warm lemon water is ok for the throat but not a treatment for core body temperature

better advice is to have HOT fluids when near people to stop it at the mouth/throat.. and then later/rest of day have iced drinks/icecream to keep the core temperature up

i emphasis HOT fluids to TRY killing it in the mouth/throat. not 'warm' fluids
as warm fluids can incubate it and actually wash it down into the stomach bypassing it just lingering in the throat for your mucus to extract naturally.
yep if your just drinking warm lemon.. you are not helping. instead you would be better off with trying to spit any flem out of your mouth

yep
warm drinks/chilli pepper initial reaction is to cause your skin to expel heat which is why your skin feels warm and you sweat. but this is heat escaping your body because it thinks your body is too warm. thus after the foodsweats of eating a spicy curry. your core temperature is actually lower and stays lower for a while
mexicans and indians knew this centuries ago and is standard practice to eat hot foods in hot countries to stay cool internally

icecream/ chilled/iced drinks cause your body to stop expelling heat. so your skin feels cooler. but your internal core locks in and keeps the heat thus warming your core.

by the way you are again UPSTAIRS (where less people usually congregate anyway) and there at 7am. so yea ofcourse your going to think its a quiet morning.
most people start work at 9 and most town retail shops dont open until 9am so ofcourse people dont even usually leave their house until after 8 to get into town for 9.
its just common sense

Whilst you are unlikely to pass it on because you wash your hands, that's not true of everyone. It's quite possible that someone could cough into their hand, and then grab the handrail to get upstairs. It's going to be difficult for us all to start regarding every surface as a potential threat. Not sure what guidance (if any) there is for shops, but they need to be disinfecting things like handrails very frequently.

@Franky - apologies for posting 26, of course you are correct when you say the temperature is 36. I stand by the rest of the post though.

With regards to using the upstairs area, it is quieter as it doesn't have the through traffic. There are usually more power points as well. Because of this it is used by early morning business people, and kids dropped off by their parents waiting for school to open - they spend time on their phones of course. There are usually 5 or 6 tables occupied as well as mine,

From what I have read, washing your hands does little to slow down the spread of the virus, but it should be a basic hygiene action. The plague was spread by lack of sanitation, and personal hygiene. That is why it is stupid for councils to cut down on refuse and ware collection, and I understand they will be doing that soon.

I'm n the Morrisons cafe again, and the stadd have been told to cut down of their purchases for the cafe. They expect to close it in the not too distant future. As I was driving here, I noticed a 5 tonne curtain-sider in a lay-bye. It was a farmer selling sack of potatoes directly to the public,and that is the first time I have seen that. It is usually strawberries of flowers that are being sold. It's 2pm and I walked round the store. Most of the meat shelves were empty, as were many others.

@Jet Cash it’s kind of difficult to be angry at the UK parliament for this upcoming rule, because if at some stage the virus spreads due to 70+ year old citizens getting infected then the UK people will blame the government for not taking a stand, but on the other hand I don’t completely support this decision too.

As I’m not a citizen of the UK I don’t know how grave the situation is with 70 year old people in your country, but I sincerely hope that your government can find a way to quarantine only the sick seniors, and allow other fit seniors to live their life normally.

one thing i found interesting is food delivery.
with supermarkets limiting purchases to 2-4 products per product types. this means people cant 'stock up' however on the flip side people need to spend £40+ just to get a delivery

so people that normally only buy the bare essentals such as say tins of baked beans. instead of buying a week or a fortnights worth. they can only buy 1-2 days worth. which means trying to get to the £40 limit for just a couple days worth is not going to happen easily.

this will end up with people having to be more creative and varied and end up throwing random luxury brands in just to get basket total to the minimum

i know many elderly that just done one monthly shop of like 14 tins of baked beans 14 tins of spaghetti. 7 bags of frozen chicken portions and a few other things and only just reached the £40 limit. so if they are forced to only get 2 tins at a time they have to either end up not spending 13p a tin. but upwards of 50p just to spread the brand names to get the 14 quantity
so their total bill can end up costing more just for the same product quantity. or have to try physically visiting stores on a regular couple day visit just to stay within budget.

another thing to note. i just researched to see how accurate that persons concerns were
logging into ASDA(UK walmart)
usually you can get next day delivery for £2
just checked my area and closest booking for delivery is 10 days time(28th march) and a £6.50 fee plus a £3 extra if buying under £40 of items
so the concern the person raised is real. cant get a delivery for over a week and atleast has to budget ~£9.50 just to buy a couple days worth. or throw in alot more random more expensive stuff just to get more days/variety to get the £40 min
and still no guarantee there will actually be goods available to be picked the night before delivery(10 days time)
so right now i think nutrician and finances should be more of a worry of the over 70's.. not so much if they can still go to costa coffee

and for the benefit of Jetcash because he loves sitting in mcdonalds borrowing wifi.. it seems his lifestyle is about to change
https://i.imgur.com/vT7xHSF.png
..
i can easily see people who can walk into stores. buy their 3 units per product brand.. pay.. put it in car. then walk back into store and repeat again 2-3 more times to get a weeks worth

The situation here is great fr over 70s as long as you don;t let the health workers get their hooks into you. I've got several friends who have been killed by rubbish pharmaceuticals, or turned into vegetables so that their estates can be milked. My friends in their 80s and 90s that are fit and health don'r take any pharmaceuticals.  One 94 year old lady is active in the local church community, and if you take that away from here, I'm sure that will have a greater effect on her health than a hyped up virus.

The stupidity us starting to hit the country now. I toured some supermarkets yesterday. 1 Sainsburys, 2 Morrisons, 1 ASDA, 1  and 1 M&S. Some out of stock items were common to all - including bread, eggs, potatoes, pasta tinned sardines and beans,loo rolls, and similar items. Whilst I was in Sainsburys, a shelf stacker brought out 1 box of pasta shells, and 2 boxes of spaghetti, within 10 minutes the shelf was empty. I bought one packet of each for me, and a packet for my 83 year old friend. I had problems at the till as they imposed a limit of 2 items per customer. I explained the situation to a supervisor, and she et me put through two transactions. I was lucky, as they were confiscating extra packets from other customers. Most of the reduced price items were pretty useless for me, but I did manage to get a nice selection from one of the Morrisons stores. This included a pack of Lancashire tripe for 8 pence. I haven't ever fancied eating this, as I believe it is the lining of a sheep's stomach. It seems to be really healthy though, so I thought I would give it a go.

I went to my favourite McDonalds at 5am, and found that they had closed the seating area, and were only selling take away meals. I had to wait until 8am for Costa to open, and that is where I am now. I'm running the Ubuntu netbook with the out of date blockchain. I still don't seem to be able to connect to more than 2 peers, so I will have to do a bit of investigation obviously.

I picked up a couple of dozen paving blocks that someone had chucked into the verge by a lay-bye, and they will make nice steps for my Wild Brambles veg garden. I'm thinking of growing some traditional medicinal herbs in a part of that, but first I need to dig the whole area, and clear some branches.

It is very impressive that you are 78 and you are involved in the internet and in a radical community such as the crypto community.
In my opinion, it is good to isolate older people. In the rest of Europe, older people are mostly the victims of the COVID-19.
It is a way to protect elderly and keep the healthcare system in a stable situation.

I think older people are the victims of the healthcare systems, and not things like this virus. Forced isolation is probably the worth thing you can do to them, and can lead to depression and other problems. They will probably still be exposed to the virus via deliveries, and deliverymen.

I will pay lip service to many of the fears though. For example, I will wash the rocks and bins that I take to the new vegetable garden with Jeyes fluid. This is a traditional environmentally safe disinfectant.

[edit] I can't use Jeyes, as it contains tar acid, and that is harmful to cats, so I need to find something else.

Actually, I want to say that also. Very few crypto users are in his age level as most of them don't want to dwell with the current technology. Maybe the government is just thinking about the vulnerability of this age group to something like this. The immunity to viruses such as covid is getting weaker as you grow older. But forced isolation? It is like you're being outcast of the society. Unless, they will provide all the things needed in that community and older people will not feel that they are being isolated from others.

Why is it that people think that anyone over 60 is incompetent and a moron. Many of us can still go up the stairs two at a time, and I watch the fat young things take the lift, and then go to the pharmaceutical counter.

To a great extent, age is a state of mind. Keep up your metabolic rate, and don't shorten your stride. Keep your head erect, and eat healthy food. Don't let them give you any pharmaceuticals or vaccinations. Retain your sense of humour, and remember that it is a scientific fact that people who have more birthdays, live longer.

sorry to say this but its not some martial law, ca in the military and tanks and shoot anyone seen on the streets.

its more an advisory where even though you feel you personally are as fit as an 18yo. generally people over 70 are not as fit as a 40yo.
if yo wanted to start changing laws making it mandatory that everyone views people over 70 as the same as a 18yo. then you will never see your pension. and those who are not as fit as you cannot claim that 'its just old age'

dont go around showing off your superman and expecting other 70+ people to be able to fly and stop bullets too.
no one is forcing you at gun point to stay home (though you live in a van by the sound of it, so you have that freedom)
people who are SELF (emphasis self) isolating can still go out and go to the shops.

the government is keeping the grocery shops open at all costs.. so yea people can still go to the shops. and you can still walk about and drive a car.

just dont become a naive old man that stupidly wants to revolt and start licking trolley handles just for the sake of protest. pretending your protest is about feeling like your under strict orders and at gun point.. your not

just calm down. i think all of your behaviour is most likely just caffeine withdrawal. so before telling people to stop taking their meds. atleast first start handling your own caffeine addiction problems. as this last month your main worry has been how easy it would be to get a coffee/wifi in mcdonalds/costa.. which to me is just a first world problem of no big deal,
so just calm down a little or it will be the stress that will be your downfall

I'm actually paying for a tea, and getting refills with hot water and a slice of lemon where I can. I'm thinking of carrying my own lemon slices as well. It's really just the power that I need until I install some solar. Most of my comments are attempts to get people to be sensible, and to stop destroying themselves with statins and the like.

What really concerns me is the way this has been hyped up to enable the collapse of various nations' economies. Nobody uis talking about the 2 Chinese that have contracted the bubonic plague, and that could be far more worrying.

I've been doing similar but with honey to strengthen immunity, I don't want to catch the virus to allow it to mutate and spread further.
It would be almost impossible for me to die from it, and even people over 70 don't face much of a problem - especially at the age of 70. Most people likely to die are in their late 50s/early 60s or 90s afaik these days. The former caused by complications such as smoking and drinking.


I'm under the impression the bubonic plague and proto-covid-19 (the Wuhan strain) are probably similar in fatality rates (around 3%) the beta-covid-19 strain now is more likely to kill 0.1%-1% of individuals (based on their own immune system and precautions certain areas may take).

I see the students near me have done nothiing to aid in social distancing, all seem to be wandering around the city in packs still...

---

People repeatedly point out the food practices of other countries that do need solving but most countries are many years behind Europe.
The US are still using caged everything and labelling it free range if it doesn't have a cage but has a similar amount of space...
Bangladesh and thailand look to be trying to reduce caged animal exports to comply with the EU standards better. And meanwhile china haven't learnt that putting different types of animals next to each other (cooked, dead, alive) does nothing to help with hygiene. It's always weird that the "delicacies" of a place are the shit no one else wants to go near (like kaviar/tongue for the western world and snake/bat for china).


Another issue people don't seem to notice is that forced isolation of a population is going to do nothing for the mental health of anyone... Boris had to confirm that exercise comes under essential travel for this reason too (since a lack of open air and unlight leads to deficiency in vitamin D and issues absorbing things like calcium).

The real problem with self-isolation is that it doesn't expose you to the virus, and this means that your body won't build any immunity. It won't be possible to eradicate the virus, as we have not been able to eradicate the common cold. However we have built up a herd immunity, so it is now merely an inconvenience for most people. The callous manipulation of this virus to facilitate a banking reset is going to cause far more problems for society. This is the real threat to older retired people, as their savings are stolen, and they are conned into becoming dependent of health damaging drugs.

Feel sorry to hear that. :( Some governments in EURO are showing their irresponsibility in containing and treating the virus. They seem to less care to infected people.

Well we are still in a kaleidoscope here in England. I phoned my friend this am, and she asked me if i could get her some milk. She wanted 4 1 pint bottles - one for now, and 3 for the freezer. When I went to pay I had one bottle confiscated. It seems you canonly buy 3  bottles, which seems a bit mad, as the next rack contained a load of 4 pint bottles. If I had been hoarding, I could have bought 3 of those.

After dropping off her shopping, I went to Morrisons for coffee, and they have changed the cafe. Half of the tables and chairs have been stacked up in the lounge area which they has closed. This meant that there is at least 5 feet between tables. The only problem is that the lounge area has all the power points. Anyway, I applied my persuasive charm on the attractive assistant manageress, and she open a corner of the lounge area for me. I'm now in my own den, and still more than 5 feet from the nearest table.

There was a bit of stress at the do it yourself checkout. There were about 15 people waiting in the queue, and a guy of about 75 ( not me ) at the front. The supervisor told him sharply to get behind the line, and I thought he was going to kick off at her.  I didn't even realise that there was a line, but there is a thin brass strip set in the floor, and it seems you are supposed to stay behind that. There aren't any notices about it though, and everybody was pushing and jostling in the queue, so no 5 feet rules there. There was an A4 page of instructions telling you how to use the self service tills during the CV pseudo-pandemic, but there was too much, so I didn't bother to read it.

I guess the good news is that they will probably be allowed to keep the restaurant open if they follow government guidelines.

[edit at 16:20] The bad news is that due to lack of customers they lost money today, so the cafe will probably not be open tomorrow. I have been told that I can sit here, but I may not be able to buy a coffee.

I'm in Morrisons again this morning, and they seem to have developed a system to cope with demand. They opened at 7am, and the shelves were overflowing, and the queues to pay built up very quickly. They created lines in each of the aisles, and each line served two tills, and everybody was very civilised and polite. The shelves started to look empty, and they started restocking at about 9am. Obviously there is no supply shortage for them. The cafe is open again with 50% of the tables spaced out. I gather that Waitrose id taking a different approach, and it is closing its cafes and restaurants, and stopping their free coffee offer at all stores. They are also reducing opening hours - I'm not sure that is the best approach.

We seem to be adjusting to the artificial problems created by reports of the virus, and some manufacturers are switching to the manufacture of virus related products to replace other items that are in reduced demand.

morrisons in my area at 8:30 way already showing missing items.

one thing i noticed is how people outside tried to distance themselves. but inside the store people were brushing past each other as if the store was some magic virus vaccuum

totally separate thing
what i also found funny is the whole self isolate the old.. but then want retired doctors over 65 to come back to the epicentres of viruses (hospital) and work 12 hour shifts...
i see the death toll of doctors will rise in that instance

I found out why Morrisons seems to be getting more stock than other supermarkets. It seems they are paying their smaller suppliers immediately on delivery, so they are probably getting priority over some of the other supermarkets.

I just found out that the UK seems to have a particular plan, and it is what I would consider to be a very viable one.  Not to say that it is 'the right plan', but it will be very interesting to analyze how it works.

As of yesterday 3 people had died from SARS-cov-II infection in Italy.  I say this because that is the number of fatalities among people with no other known issue.  This is important to note in looking at the UK's plan.

The plan is basically to allow development of 'natural herd immunity' by allowing the virus to sweep through the population.  Noting that the mortality among healthy people is VERY low and most people, if they even know they had the damn thing, get what is a minor cold which lasts a day or two, this seems like a rational idea.

What they are also doing is to try to protect people who are thought to be vulnerable while natural herd immunity develops.  That is the reason for singling out people over 70.

I gleaned this information from the latest Highwire show (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xaycvo79v6w) and have not cross-referenced it or verified things myself yet.

because there is no vaccine. herd immunity is the plan for every country..
but different countries do it in different ways

UK wanted to isolate the elderly. so they do not all require to lay in the 8k ICU beds in NHS all at the same time in just a couple weeks and instead try staggering the influx over 12weeks. and roll on from there once they have had dtimee to assess the next 12week phase

however they did want kids to go to school so the kids got the cold and recovered over easter..
BUT
now they want to close schools and keep them closed all the way through summer(6 months(26 weeks))
so that initial herd immunity plan has changed. its now a staggered approach more aimed at not over using the NHS resourses all in one go. less about letting it spread around the kids quick to get them naturally immune quick to then go back to normal sooner

so dont expect 'business as usual' in 2weeks or 12 weeks. this going to go on all through the summer, in many waves of peak points of infection rather than mass infection in one go
                                /\
 ___   _            not   /  \
/     \/   \/\              /     \ 

but anyway. yea the young, healthy, no underlying health will just have a cough and be ok after a few days. but i fel we will still see others getting more serious stuff later when they may get told to relax the isolation and then those who were isolating get it

i know china says no new cases.. but just wait until they try going back to usual and those that escaped getting infected first time, get it

Hard times require hard decisions

I don't doubt that there could be people who have 'information' on how this thing will present, but I doubt you are one of them.  If such people want the infection to come in waves so that vaccine uptake will be higher when the needles come out, that's probably what will happen.

I have not seen any reason to think that this one should present any different to the common cold if it is a naturally occurring coronavirus and different strains are not being deliberately planted into different population groups in order to be used as "politically useful tools."

your the kind of guy that doesnt seek information and then form an opinion. you seem to form an opinion and then only seek information that backs your opinion and ignore any info that doesnt even if that info is fact.

vaccines are not even a topic right now.. THERE ARE NO VACCINES.. so trying to turn tactics/plans of how to deal with corona right now into some vaccine plot is rediculous.. there are not even vaccines to be able to put needles into everyone.

everyone is going to get it. but only ~1% will feel the symptoms and only ~6% of those feeling symptoms will feel the severe symptoms

as for your spouts that it must be bio-lab made because its not the normal flu.. you really have not done your research.
the reason the cold has no vaccine is because the cold is not one strain.
corona has been around and recorded since the 1960's.. again not one strain.
2002 sars and then MERS were both more severe strains of corona compared to normal yearly corona.
this is not to do with severe strains being lab creations. but the fact that each season it does mutate and every 5-10 years the mutation naturally is significant enough to trick the body into not recognising it and thus the body goes into overdrive to try dealing with it.

what you dont realise about vaccines is this
the virus itself is not really doing the harm. its your bodys immune system that when not understanding how to handle something, it tries to fight it strongly and its your bodies response that is wat people feel
a virus does not have a flamethrower to attach your body and cause a fever. instead. its your body that sees a stranger  tresspassing and your body is then carrying the flamethrower to try burning the tresspasser.

vaccines (when good) introduce just enough identifiers of a virus, not to spread. but to instead let your body know and recognise the new thing. and as such your body will not go into full flamethrower mode and instead just go into normal kick its ass out mode. thus people dont feel the symptoms

there is no way to irradicate the virus from society and everyone will get it. but they just dont want everyone whos immune system cant cope with it to get the severe symptoms of when their own bodies have to go into overdrive.

so because there is no vaccine right now to get the body to not over react. thus avoid the severe symptoms. instead they knw if too many weak immune people get it in one go. there is not enough intensive care beds available to handle looking after people who get severe symptoms

so thinking everyone should just gather around and lick each others faces and everyone will be fine. is bad advice as is telling people to avoid a vaccine when it finally does arrive next year to curb the over reaction of the body next year

Ya, ummm, before you rush out to get your necessarily poorly tested coronavirus vaccine next year, you may want to have a peek at this:

  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/pdf/pone.0035421.pdf (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/pdf/pone.0035421.pdf)

Actually, that's not really aimed at you, Franky.  It's more for people who understand scientific stuff a little bit.  But maybe a friend can help you out before you make a big mistake.

maybe you need to read it a few more times to understand it better
maybe you need to work out why a vaccine has a small amount of the strain in it. maybe you need to learn that yes there are risks that those having the vaccine may also trigger the fever/respiratory systems..
yep i already told you all about the immunopathy response even before you posted the link. heck you even made it bold highlighed which shows you atleast read it

what your not taking into account are these things
vaccines use the virus strain identifiers but make it impotent to not replicate. this allows the body to see a invador. handle it without the mass body spread.
then the body knows whats best to do next time to cut it short without panic.
however some people immune issues even if a non-replicating virus is introduced, when their body sees it their body automatically over reacts. even if the viral count itself is low

the virus and vaccine is not the killer. its your bodies own immunopathy reaction to an invader thats the killer
the real thing that you could should consider a worry about vaccines. is not the vaccine. or the risk of people still getting symptoms.. but instead the addative (adjunct) they use. as that in of itself can hurt people if the wrong one is used

..
here is the point.
did you know that right now. your body is actually full of billions of bacteria and viruses. yep we are all carriers.
why do you think even though measles and mumps meant to have been 'irradicated' people who are not immune still get it.
because other that are immune still carry it.
yep what has happened is the body has learned to not over react and not go into shock when it gets it when your immune. thus allowing the body just to concentrate all its energy on evacuating the pathogen thats not wanted out of the body with no notable sign that its happening.

thinking that something is irradicated is foolish. the reality is that the body learns to cope to handle it real fast and without over reacting. thus not showing mass spread that can be measured.
yep right now. everyone passes on last seasons flu. even when not snotty nose before. its just your body handled it so quick that it didnt get chance to replicate into measurable amounts. so the chance of passing it on is also low.

but i do hope you do more research. and thanks for showing you have learned what immunophathy is all about and that it is a real thing. and that its the bodies reaction to a invader. and not the invader.

The antigen (proper word for your 'the strain') count is one thing that the so-called 'anti-vaxxer' are NOT worried about.  Recently the pro-vax side is desperately trying to bring it up over and over again and pretend like the anti-vaxxers think it's a problem.  The reason why is that it isn't a problem and they have proof it isn't.  'We' never voiced concern about it.  It's just a wee bit to complex for most people though so I don't doubt that this will be lost when the slather on the propaganda about the 'mountain of studies' they have.


The word you are looking for is 'adjuvant.'  It's an irritant which sort of turbo-charges the immune system and is necessary to make certain vaccine classes 'work' (where 'work' simply means get the titer count to a certain level defined in regulatory documents.)

One of the troubles with adjuvants is that they make the immune system go crazy not only against the antigen of the vaccine, but with everything else it's doing besides (which includes knocking off badly behaving or retired cells of one's own body.)  Instant auto-immunity problems.  Usually they use Aluminum salts as adjuvants.  They've tried other things like squalene which is similar to the oil lubricating one's joints.  Guess what that brought on.  If you guessed arthritis, congratulations.


Another 'no shit' moment...of many when talking to you.  I would add that without a lot of them human life is impossible.


One reason is that the vaccines are undergoing 'failure'.  They are working less and less well as time goes by.

People who had these minor childhood 'right of passage' ailments (like me) never get it again because they created the natural whole immune response.  On top of that, women who had the ailments in childhood retain the antibodies and pass them to their own children protecting them in the first year of life when getting mumps, measles, chicken-pox, etc is actually a high enough risk to worry about.


Let me try to explain the paper to you.

 - They worked on developing a SARS coronavirus vaccine and in animal testing found a rather odd problem:

 -    animal subjects which were vaccinated ended up dieing like flies when exposed real disease came around.

 - The vaccine 'worked' in that the victim developed antibodies, but:

 - It seems as though _in this case_ the vaccine primed the immune system for a rather extreme over-reaction.  (cytokine storm.)

 - They warned explicitly to be super careful about this phenomenon if a vaccine is tried in humans.

So vaccine development for SARS coronavirus ceased...or did it?  Some people wonder if some of the victims in China had been part of phase 1 or phase 2 trials of just such a vaccine.  Of course even if this were the case it would be deeply covered up, and a Chinese doesn't really have the right to even know if they were part of a trial.  Same with U.S. servicemen.

The moral of the story is that there are very good reasons why vaccines SHOULD undergo long trials and shortcuts should not be taken.

I would point out the dengue fever is another one of these unusual instance where re-challenge was problematic.  Exposure to a 2nd strain after the first (or after the vaccine) creates a MORE dangerous disease than otherwise.  So the vaccine if given at all should only be given to someone who has already had Dengue once.  This was overlooked in The Philippines and it resulted in a scandal.  Thankfully for the Filipinos it also induced them to be a little more inquisitive and careful about vaccines.  Nobody likes to be a guinea pig, and especially when the developers are scientifically negligent and the public health officials are bought off by Big Pharma who feel like they can get away with almost anything in developing countries.

The big point that you don't realize about Coronavirus and most other viruses is...

... everything said is close to 100% HEARSAY... or show us the court docs.

It's all simply blabber and media propaganda.

8)

you really have no clue.
the pathogen antibodies do not pass onto babies in the womb.
in the womb the womans body challenges any ailments and doesnt let the ailment get into the unbornkids system. its like the blood/brain barrier. where its designed to not let anything in.

babies actually AFTER BIRTH should be breast fed.. to then and only then build up an immunity to common things of the past.

but here is the thing that you have stumbled and fell ..
your not immune to new things just because you or your mother had something else in the past.
thinking that having 'right of passage' ailments as a kid means your not going to get co-vid19 this year is foolish.

there are actual studies that show when people get sick if you had the immune measure response signals on a 1-10 scale
if 1is minor and 10 is severe
if you get a certain strain.your body starts at 1 and if not sorted goes to 2 if that not sorted goes to 3
your bodys antibodies adapt to learn how to handle that strain better next time
so next time you get that strain you might be a 0 or 1

however getting many strains that end up with a 3 makes your body default to 3 from the begining and then go to 4-5

this is why older people are at risk because their defaults might be set to 4-5 even at the very first signal of having a pathogen invasion.
...
as for the other stuff.. i find it funny how you say some BS and conspiracy in one post.. i then correct you.. then you post as if you knew what i said all along and im just spouting out common stuff..
its a weird thing i am noticing from you the method to flip flip back and forth and then go on a speach about how i should be the one that researches..

sorry but its you that should research first and form an opinion.. not form an opinion. find lose info to back it up. get corrected by others. then research and realise your wrong. then act as if you always knew the truth and that the person that corrected you hadnt done their homework

but please. how about just skip the first step of forming an opinion and trying to find lose flimsy info to back your opinion. and go straight to the point of pretend your opinion before u even write it is wrong. and then critique your own opinion by researching outside of your opinion.
then you will come to more conclusions that are correct. without you looking like a flip flopping mind changer

dont you even try to but in with pretending you know about courts by saying court buzzwords like hearsay
you have already been proved in many topics you fail the basic knowledge test.
and karl lentz is not proof. he himself using your own words is 'hear say'
as proven by your lack of ability to research the 'la la la' challenge i set you MONTHS AGO(im still waiting)
and the fact that karl lentz himself said 'lalala' which shows even his accounts are not accurate to reality
so you should try to do some research

You are so goofy. Everybody knows this stuff. tvbcof wasn't even talking about most of what you blabbed. But, it makes for two good things (your blabbing, I mean):
1. You get a higher Activity rating;
2. People recognize that you are smart about all kinds of points, but dumb about sticking to the conversation.

8)

See what I mean? All the CV stuff is hearsay... so far at least. And that was the point. But you go blab about stuff that doesn't have anything to do with it. HOWEVER, we like it when you do this. It makes it so much easier to disregard everything you post.

8)

EDIT: Do you have a ghost writer who tells you what to post?  :D

Firstly, you are just plain wrong:  From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4165321/ (as well as the first thing on the top of Google from a simple search.)


Secondly, it doesn't matter since I was thinking more of breastfeeding anyway.

The rest of your stuff seems to be the same kind of babble you are known for and since it is not relevant it isn't worth the time to go through and try to correct...when it is even clear what point you were trying to make...if you were even trying.

If so, the dude badly needs to fire his ghost writer and hire a new one!

LOL!

But, if there is forced isolation in the UK for people over 70, doesn't such include a whole bunch of government people? So, are they running government out of their homes?

8)

its been many days since this topic was launched

the is no use of force
no police officers ecorting people home
no gun shirts fired at people that refuse
no arrests

no government intervention/force
it is just advised that obviously the older you are the more at risk of ANY health problem you are.. yea thats hw age works no one is an immortal 2000year old person.

the advisory is for elderly people to be more careful and cautious.
UK is not under some marshal law with armed police enforcing isolation

so i think this topic has made itself irrelevant just by the fact that time has passed and the 'force' is not occuring
have a nice day with al the scare tactics though, by which i mean scare tactics by people in this forum shouting how things are not as they seem..
...yet reality shows what reality is

True, but there's some interesting development in Italy.
I've read that they don't have enough respirators so they had to decide what age group can be sacrificed for the greater good. People above 60 aren't given oxygen and are not intubated so that those younger with higher chances can be treated. For this reason there's so many deaths in Italy when compared to other countries and there's most likely going to be more.
Just wait until the UK comes up with a similar "treatment".

The reason they're getting closer and closer to fully doing this is because the old people in these nations (and lets be real, EVERYONE) wasn't taking this seriously at first and some may not be taking this seriously not. The best way to 'flatten the curve' of infections is to stay home, that's it. There's no other way to handle things rather then just sitting on your ass and not interacting with others (your family is one thing, but that's it)

I have family members in southern Italy who still aren't listening to the Quarantine rules and are breaking them on the daily to go to the coffee shop, hangout with some friends, etc. All they're doing is making this worse for themselves which is why the government is thinking about action.

thats because we have some dumb nutters who stupidly want to spout out nonsense that people should be automatically immune from all viruses purely from being born

sorry but being born or being breast fed wont protect a 70yo guy
after all te 2019 strain was not even around in 1949 while the now 70yo was gestating

but hey nutter will be nutters and only use small quotes from small excerts that only fit their opinion. rather than do proper open minded research and then form an opinion based on multiple different sources

but until then we will ave idiots trying to promote their anti-vaxxer stance and vegan diets as some shield for all ailments
.. then will come phase two of their plan. become an affiliate marketer of suppliments and pills sized 'herbal' extracts

Though I think that they weren't take this seriously at first, though once they see this horrible virus come to their town and begin to kill people that they knew and they love, they will begin to take it seriously. I can understand that it may be hard to see something as legitimate if it's not close to you yet, and you just imagine it all the way around the world.

But when it's in your backyard, things get a lot more serious, FAST.

^^^ But the point is keeping people from harm. Anything we try to do outside of simply getting sick and going to bed - or in some cases, the morgue - will only create more chaos and kill more people than if we did nothing special at all.

8)

most of the dumb nutter antivaxxers are and have been socially excluded anyway most their life. meaning not many friends to be invited to birthday parties.
you can usually spot the basement dweller/hippy commune person a mile away in this forum. because they try a little too hard to grab onto new trends like veganism/antivaxxing/herbal remedies. but lack the attention to detail. they just try too hard to want to make themselves seem part of a group, an ass kisser and also try to make themselves look like they are the lead advocate of their opinion trying to spread it like a cult worship

so with them already being so socially isolated in the real world they feel they can never get it and have no friends to lose in the real world so they spout out any old crap thinking they can get away with it and no one can find them in their basement

but i still laugh that some think because they had the flu once as a kid they are gonna be fine when they are old. or that being born, in of itself is a immunity shield.. not realising if that were true everyone would be immune because everyone is born.

so to all the dumb antivaxxers and herbal remedy gurus
the reason you think your immune is because of your opinion. but the reality is because you never broke a bone playing sports or with other kids and never had the flu, your deluded into thinking your superman/immortal
but, in short. you never really went out into the world and mingled with people to then have real world pains and ailments

(this post is not aimed at anyone specific, as i have come across many of these types of people in my life/travels. but if you feel personally offended/targetted by what i said. then it just means what i have said has hit a bit close to home to be descriptive of you) (no need to respond. just realise by being offended. you have obviously realised you have these negative qualities)

Now that's a right proper troll post!  Out of deference to your effort I won't even trim it.

Just FWIW, it's not very accurate in my case, but I'm also not un-vaxed.  I just got an earlier vaccine schedule formulated back before the vaccine companies were given blanket legal immunity from harm cause by their vaccines and thus took a little more interest in safety research.

It was also back in a time when the autism rate was 1/10,000 (now running about 1/40) and when it was almost unheard of to see a kid with a nebulizer, a peanut allergy, an auto-immune disease.  In fact it was rare for a kid be on almost any prescription medication at all.  Now it's like 1 in 2 kids are on some med...and Big Pharma is laughing all the way to the bank.

well your vaccines from when you were a kid did not include a vaccine for this years corona.
neither did your mothers immunity when you were gestating neither was her breastmilk

..
point is many many numbskulls are saying herd immunity is where people should be forced to gather together in public and actually get it and pass it.
this is selfish for 2 reasons
1. those that think they are superman and immortal and think the will be fine. are not thinking about the risk that maybe they won be and not thinking about others who get it due to these stupid ideas
2. if everyone got it and we had 40k in the UK that could die and another 30k serious enough.. thus ~70k hospital need
there just aint that many hospital beds and staff to look after the seriously ill
3. herd immunity is also to separate from the weaker flock (sheep analogy: black sheep of the family). so if our going to follow herd mentality.. its 2 sided isolate yourselves to prevent the weaker sheep getting it so much/in huge numbers of flock


so think more about others and not your own health when spouting herd immunity stuff
everyone will get it. but its best to stagger it by isolating people releasing people and isolating people in stages

if your 70 and still want to pretend your superman and its fine for you to go out. stay away from other people. even if you are symptomless doesnt mean your not a carrier

as for the autism stuff.. again the vaccine is not the issue its the adjuct/addative/catalyst they add into it that may cause issues. its not about saying no to all vaccines its about asking whats in a vaccine and decide based on the ingrediants. not just blanked ban stop having vaccines based on what a blog post said.

if you want to be selfish and not care about others. atleast let them get it.. and use them as the sandbox to see if its safe. if they dont have adverse reactions. then you know you can then take it.
dont just be blinded and ignorant to just say no just because you have not got the energy to research/think/make independant decision based on an overview of all evidence
but anyway. a vaccine is not even available and wont be for a long while so dont see why antivaxxers are getting so energetic about corona.. its not even a thing to talk about right now

The UK government reacted very late to this pandemic.
UK already suffers a lot of deaths and a lot of infections and it is just the start.
I don't want to believe that we are going to see another Italy in the UK region. It would be very unfortunate for the European continent.

the foolish thing is..
its the government that wanted to keep it voluntary and just ask people to be responsible and socially distance and social isolate
yep they wanted people to self-govern and do it for the right reasons

however some numbskulls think they are immortal superman and should not have to socially distance and want to go to shops and do normal things...
this then caused the government observe people still gathering and so he is now about to consider lawful restriction. and i predict the numbskulls will blame governments for doing lawful isolation policies

these numbskulls are not realising they are the reason the government has to step in. is because people dont take responsibility for themselves and those around them

going to mcdonalds and sitting down for a couple hours. rather than getting a takeaway coffee and leaving in 4 minutes. has not been a good visual thing to observe.
going to morrisons and asking staff to open a cornered off area just to charge a phone is thinking more about oneselfs need than the general community
bulk buying food has even by the UK PM been said as selfish.

i know i picked morrisons and mcdonalds in this topic because they were mentioned in this topic. but the PM doesnt know about this topic but still thinks people doing these examples is selfish. so dont take it as a personal attack. but just take it as a enlightening moment to realise that your lifestyle has to change to help the community.

i personally realise that travel is restricted. and i happily decided not to travel around. so yea i foresee and plan to be stuck in england all summer.. i accept it and take responsibility that my lifestyle has to change

im not blaming pro-vaxxers, im not blaming government, not even blaming airlines. it just is what it is

Well this thread seems to have taken a strange turn, and of course there are some personal attacks here as well. I haven;t read all the post, as I am power challenged, and spending most of my time on a mobile until I set up my solar. and generator.

There seems to be a suggestion that I may be an overprotected shrinking violet, and the opposite is probably the truth. I played rugby for my school for a while, and I have broken several bonese as a result of motor cycle accidents and fighting, amongst other things. I'm a Gemini, so I am probably more social than most people, and I may have travelled across more of America than many Americans - I drove fron San Francisco to Tallahassee in a 30 foot U-haul with several detours for example. I'm a child of the 60s and 70s which was the era of coffee shops and Carnaby Street, so my visits to McD are more for the power, WiFi, and social contact, and not for the coffee. You don't have to be the sharpest intellect in Bitcoin Talk to realise that I can make better coffee in my van.

I genuinely believe that allowing yourself to be vaccinated is about as intelligent s smoking, and I;m not sure whish is the more damaging. My opinion is based on real life observation, discussions with medical professionals, and copious reading I tend to ignore the pharmaceutical propaganda created by Big Paharma, and pushed by the like of the BBC.

England is in a strange state at the moment. People are being encouraged to wash their hands, but public conveniences are locked, and shoppers are urinating in the bushes if a supermarket doesn't have facilities.

I post more info when I have set up a comms desk in the van.

most attacks not aimed at you personally. but the general group of herbal antivaxxer supermen, yea i brought up your morning coffee routine habits. but that also was an example boris johnson mentioned and yet he hasnt read your posts. so dont take it too personal unless you are realising your actions are not what society should be doing. think of it as more of a gentle poke. not an attack

but i would say you pretend you have done copius research but admit you have ignored medical sources.
an idea for you. is to actually read everything. from both sides of the fences. and then form an opinion.
like read the ingredient lists of vaccines and find if they have any weird additives in them. research what those can do.
dont form an opinion and search only things that match your formed opinion(i see too many numbskulls do that)

dont stick to reading info from antivaxxer leaning sites or all you will hear is scare stories and theories glossed over with carefully selected extracts that lean in their favour. rather than reading full info in complete context

i do understand its tough that your lifestyle has to change, mine too. im stuck in england for months and i already miss travelling. but im sucking it up

as for the over 70 'enforcement' even last nights boris report is still in the voluntary social distance/isolation phase. i have yet to see any marshal law call in the military force where over 70's would be at gunpoint if seen on the streets,
so maybe relax a bit. do socially distance and isolate as much. but if you intend to gather a group of 30 pensioners and just congregate at random places as some form of social dissidence revolt. it would be people like you who would actually trigger the authorities to up their game.
so just be responsible and smart and just do it voluntarily.. for your own good and others