Bitcoin Forum

If altcoins aren't dependants on Bitcoin price or value one altcoin would have over throne Bitcoin, if it was a different story that altcoins don't rely on Bitcoin bullrun I believe Bitcoin won't be the 1st today, am I wrong or right?

I don't know what you actually want to gain from that anyway but with experience so far, we have seen altcoins bull when bitcoin is also on the bull. So most concern are of the view that bitcoin run is also a time altcoins are rising.

You're true about that. The fact that the value gets centralized into the bitcoin and the story will be different if altcoins can stand with its legs without any intervention from the bitcoin but it looks like this thing will never happen unless altcoin can create a mechanism to secure its value from the intervention of bitcoin.

It's just a wish and it's something that will never happen, till the end of time altcoins will always depend on Bitcoin, if BTC collapsed all other coins will go down

There are some coin like usdt isn’t rely on bitcoin. Its price and value is stable now.
If anything comes up better system then bitcoin it will over bitcoin throne.   

Why would they go down if some have their own blockchain, vision, product and etc ? Or tell us why when bitcoin price goes down, there are alts, which price goes up?

Converting what you are saying in IRL products will be "if Nike collapses (goes bankrupt), Adidas, Puma, Reebok and other sport's brands will go down as well." But that nonsense.

Of course there will be an impact on cryptocurrency market. But users who use bitcoin as an decentralized and crypted payment method will switch to Stellar, Ethereum, EOS and others.

Crypto space is different, Bitcoin carries the best volume ever and it has the strongest community support, so if anything happens to Bitcoin many altcoins will suffer it and many can even die in the process, almost all altcoins lives on behalf of Bitcoin

It seems that you have started to make mistakes in understanding Bitcoin and Altcoin, so you have to find out first the basis of the development of Altcoin where and how it was built by the developer, okay, let's discuss this, because on this occasion I will also ask to you, before Altcoin, what coins were the first to be found or appeared in cryptocurrency? , please answer because I will wait for your answer until whenever.

You are quite right and from the look of things it will remain like that till anytime anyone can't imagine. The reason for this is, Bitcoin is totally decentralized unlike most which claims to, and also Bitcoin overtime has grown to be valuable hence having a huge community backup. Also, most people today trust Bitcoin more than other coins and so far this remains the case, hardly will any altcoin overtake Bitcoin. In the same way, in the case of altcoins, most can't even be trusted nor work with their roadmap to develop a platform valuable. Therefore, you are right but things will not change, Bitcoin will always remain on top.

I think your opinion is correct. Altcoins will surpass Bitcoin in the market as it is possible, altcoins have outstanding advantages and potentials. But, Bitcoin has been proving its leading position in the market, which everyone needs to trade. In my opinion, it will take quite a while

yes you are right, but the current price of Altcoin still depends on the price of Bitcoin, look at the dominance of Bitcoin is still high,
it indicates that the altcoin market is still weak

The fact that the value is focused on bitcoin and the story will be different if altcoins can stand up without any intervention from bitcoin but it seems that this will never happen unless altcoin can. We can only say that altcoins rely on the price of bitcoin if the altcoin is paired with bitcoin.

It's like switching an altcoin to bitcoin's side and the scenario in which that altcoin was the first invented cryptocurrency that got the spotlight. You're right with that but we can't change the time or go back to the past and have an altcoin made by satoshi.

It's a very long story and debate about bitcoin and alts comparison and let's accept it that bitcoin is there to stay.

Most altcoins aren't pure cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.

The vast majority of altcoins are actually what are known as utility tokens, which means they derive their value from their utility on some platform, exchange or website etc.

Bitcoin, on the other hand, is 100% used for transactions and is accepted by tens of thousands of merchants worldwide. Other similar coins like Bitcoin Cash, Litecoin, Zcash etc are also pure cryptocurrencies, but they're not anywhere near as accepted and are nowhere near as scarce.

These two factors, combined with the sheer number of users makes Bitcoin number 1. So far no altcoin has managed to compete with this.

I still believe it's possible for a new coin to beat bitcoin and take over the 1st place on coinmarketcap but it's sad that no single altcoin is better than Bitcoin, they have better upgrades and new features but many things are still missing

Yeah bitcoin is one of the pure cryptocurrency where lots of merchant users with millions of transactions means pure bitcoin for trading and investment, not relying on the platform or the products they offer.

I can't be sure that altcoin will rival bitcoin completely because most of altcoin is shitcoin, even though it has been an altcoin season but it is only for a moment and never returns.

And I think this is just a story in my view of this.

I've seen some good altcoins that later goes down and only make you start wondering what could have happened, anything under top 10 is not or will never be included in my portfolio and if any coin loses its rank I will dump for another

Altcoins are not yet adopted to the level of Bitcoin that is why all altcoins are still dependent on Bitcoin, maybe in the future, the scenario would be different, but right now the industry success lies on Bitcoin, and I don't see it changing in the next five years, this will still be the market trend.

it could be, but in reality bitcoin is the first coin and the highest price right now with the highest market cap too. all will depend on other altcoin, if anyone is able to exceed the price and market cap of bitcoin, then bitcoin will not be number one.

Bitcoin remains unbeatable right now and no altcoin can dominate as bitcoin is but in some instances and future scenario you can consider that one altcoin will make a great impact in crypto world just like Bitcoin. People still preferred to buy Bitcoin rather than other crypto. Some millionaires have also back up by Bitcoin or even new to cryptocurrency because of its popular and trusted.

altcoin price movements depend on investors, if investors are more interested in altcoin then the price will continue to rise even if the price of bitcoin goes down, but because many investors panic when they see the price of bitcoin go down, so they panic too to sell the altcoin assets they hold.

The focus on either bitcoin or altcoins is seasonal. Presently, investors are still focused on bitcoin, but when the time comes for them to make profit from altcoins and they are done with bitcoin, it is sure alts will rise and BTC will remain either stagnant or it falls. Although, we cannot leave out the fact that Bitcoin still controls the prices of altcoins most of the time.

it all depends on the request of the investor. but we have to see how the market situation that we know is very important support from bitcoin for altcoin can get price increases.

Not really understanding what you mean, but altcoins are tied to bitcoin somehow, bitcoin is tied to altcoins as well though. There is a correlation obviously, for many people bitcoin is still the way to get into crypto, so there will always be a connection.

The idea that one day bitcoin may not be first is technically right, there is nothing that keeps other coins to not be number one, however all around the world bitcoin is known a lot more and altcoins usually don't, ethereum is a bit more known but that's about it, nothing else is really close and even ethereum is not anywhere near. So, I could say that bitcoin and altcoins are tied somehow, and bitcoin could drop from the top but it is very very unlikely, do not really hope for any coin to be there.

What are you looking for and what is the purpose of such a thing, because even the theory is clear if altcoins are able to be the highest by themselves of course it will surpass bitcoin or maybe bitcoin never existed, I wonder why they always want for bitcoin to be destroyed even though in reality with the existence of bitcoin which makes this market grow bigger with so many technologies developed.

No one can change the fact that bitcoin is still the driving factor of cryptocurrency and whatever its value, altcoins value are also affected. If bitcoin experience a bullish trend, might as well altcoins have also tendencies to increase their prices together with bitcoin. Same thing happens too when bitcoin is dumping, altcoins value are also dumping.

The fact that bitcoin will become one of the famous coins with its popularity, nothing can change it, I'm sure it is because this is a coin that is very interested in many people, bitcoin has its own advantages even though bitcoin is no product and unlike altcoin which continues to promote until now but the reality can't be better in the market.

If the bullish trend has occurred then the rise in bitcoin will not be held back then if reverse bitcoin dumping then altcoin becomes worthless.

of course bitcoin is an important influence on all cryptocurrency price movements because bitcoin is dominant and is a reference to determine the conditions of other cryptocurrency prices registered at the exchange, so don't be surprised if bitcoin can have a strong influence on other cryptocurrency.

When do you learned this analysis from? Don't forgets that the altcoins also have their lives outside the mainstream bitcoin, and their price isn't peg on bitcoin to grow. Bitcoin is the true cryptocurrency, this has been verified on many occasions when the price of Bitcoin will raise and that of the altcoins stay low, not that the bitcoin is an oppressor but that, the altcoins has no real world case usability.
Let's even assume that bitcoin doesn't exist, do you think these shitcoins will be adopted? NO, bitcoin is the true reason why many of them exist and must follow bitcoin lead.

you're wrong.. I dont think altcoins depend on bitcoin.. they're pegged with btc doesn't mean they depend on it.. it's no news that most altcoins will improve in value during btc bullrun.. but altcoins will also improve whether or not btc goes up.. up all depends on the community and demand

Well, bitcoin is the king of crypto currency for a reason, so either altcoin is dependent on bitcoin pairs, or bitcoin is depended on altcoins pairs, or the bull run, it makes no difference and does not change the fact that bitcoin is more accepted and has a huge use case and trade volume.

You are not wrong to be optimistic, an altcoin bulls is around the corner

Bitcoin is the king of this market, and it is used to evaluate other altcoins. If there is any altcoin that is not dependent on bitcoin, then it could only be a stablecoin. Its value is always stable in dollars

The entire crypto currency space is dependent on the bitcoin bull run and it is not the first time, To me only etherum comes close to bitcoin in this space while others are far off.
One keyword you should remember is that the tokens either btc or altcoins are dependent on one another, one way or the other; just different %

Bitcoin been the number one does not suggest that altcoins are depending on bitcoin. Bitcoin has got so many community behind it. You also need to understand that bitcoin is an asset to so many bit guys in this industry, you know what that means.

While most people doubt bitcoin because of its anonymity, altcoin comes with innovations that are "closer" to life. It is undeniable that bitcoin has a big influence because BTC is the first cryptocurrency to be the center of crypto world civilization. Altcoin does have its own niche, but the strength of the bitcoin market is really strong. So often the altcoin movement is greatly influenced by BTC.

You are wrong. Bitcoin was the first crypto currency that was invented. It has its upper hand over here. Altcoins aren't dependent on bitcoin price. This is totally a wrong concept. On other hand, bitcoin is still dominating because of the features it can provide. Most of the altcoins are just shitcoins. Bitcoin does have drawbacks, but they are minor compared to what good it has to offer us.
Though, one day coin might come that is better than bitcoin and solves all the current problems. People will use that altcoin as a regular currency, but the price of bitcoin might still be unbeaten as there will be people holding those coins like a store of value.

You are wrong at this point in time you are wrong, the technology is still very young and those coming in will just discover that Bitcoin is the one that started it all and because Bitcoin is the one that started it all, all focus is on its development and adoption, i can not think of anyone coming in and not investing in Bitcoin first.

Bitcoin control the market, a typical red or green day for bitcoin bodes the same trend for altcoins, an altcoins bullish season or run will not be possible unless we first have a bitcoin, the correlations in bitcoin price and those of altcoins is always  positive

yup! that's right.
in reality bitcoin is the one wearing the crown, i never thought that altcoin doesn't depend on bitcoin anymore.
because from the beginning bitcoin gave birth to altcoin, so it is impossible for them to stop relying on bitcoin.

Agree with you, altcoins need to prove they too have strong potentials like BTC to change the market value. Being dependent on BTC has been the normal story in crypto market, history should be rewritten as alts too want to come up with new plans to cover people's mind. Hopefully it will dominate in few years..

Yub, it's just same as the effects of US Dollar to the others national currencies in the world. However, it's really hard for altcoins to dominate the market without depending on BTC in the first stages. In my opinion, the only coin that may have the power to get over BTC is ETH. Unfortunately, ETH hasn't been creating any tremendous changes over the last few periods.

Of course any alts like ETH , XRP, or BCH could easily dethrone Bitcoin "IF" they aren't designed as an improvised version of Bitcoin which is also called cryptocurrency. These alts were created to perfect the flaws of Bitcoin, basically with the transaction fees and speed, while adding some features at the same time. But, the fact that Bitcoin is the original digital asset, that alone is enough not to argue about why Bitcoin cannot be dethroned by any altcoin in the market.
Whether you like it or not, Bitcoin is always be the face of cryptocurrency, and If someone is planning to dethrone Bitcoin, then they must create a digital asset which has unique features and usage.

The reason why Bitcoin is the first
1. Highest volume
2. Better community support
3. The first if it's kind
4. More trusted

I don't think any new altcoin will be capable to take bitcoin's place ever

Actually "The first of it's kind" - anonymous cryptographic electronic money was Ecash in 1983, developed by David Chaum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecash). Cant really say why Ecash wasnt so popular that they, probably because of limited popularity of the Internet. Or because Ecash simply got ahead of the time.

You're right, for now. Yes bitcoin is still a king and altcoins still have to depend on its signal. But nothing stays still forever and I believe that one day, there will a coin dethrone bitcoin. Someone mentioned USDT as stable coin so it doesn't depend on bitcoin but that's silly to use a stable to make a comparison with crypto.

Whatever the argument or opinion that we will have, no altcoin can replace bitcoin, end of the argument. Basically, this will be the same insight that I have in the next couple of years even decades however as we all know, at some point there would be another innovative project that MIGHT replace it but again, it will take years.

   USDT is a stable coin, it's not possible in my opinion to have a stable coin on top. Coin that can become
No. 1 can be some decentralized coin, that have it's own future. USDT is a coin that represent a value of
dollar, it will never be accepted by crypto-communities in that way you think it will.
   Bitcoin will stay on top for many more years, for now there are no serious competition for Bitcoin. Many
alt-coins have value in Bitcoin, when Bitcoin goes up many alt-coins follow that rise.

right, It is undeniable that 90% of altcoin follows the movements of bitcoin, and it is proven from year to year that when bitcoin prices rise, altcoin prices also go up and when bitcoin prices go down altcoin prices also go down.

That is true, if altcoin's price doesn't stressed too much to Bitcoin. But hey, looking at this moment is also a great benefit that the price won't that speculative if that case would happened. I mean, if said thing would had exist at this moment then the price would be really speculative by whalers.

Hey! I wouldn't say that we can be talking about all altcoins at once. From my point of view, much depends on the concrete platform/token and its particular prospects. And it is important to differentiate. Because again, only own and concrete analysis allows to get an objective overview

Having similar opinion. And talking about you, are there many promising tokens and platforms you are now following and can recommend? I only have 2 or 3 most advanced ones I am aware of, so always interesting to get a real recommendation

The one I would recommend is Brandtokens.io because of new paradigm guys are coming with. Not just something, but a real and working platform, created for large number of users. In few words, it allows to sharply increase the level of loyalty by many many opportunities being offered. But better check out their website, cause explained really good there

Hmm, sounds unique, thank you, will check them out shortly

if in my opinion bitcoin is still one of the crowns or pillars of the cryptocurcycy world so i think it is not impossible that altcoin can be above bitcoin but it needs a very big effort. because you know yourself at first bitcoin itself is also worth the same as some altcoin.

It will be so cool if coins aren't ranked with their highest volumes, I guess that's one of the top reason why Bitcoin is the first I'm coinmarketcap, there are better coins but Bitcoin just stole all the attention, I don't hate BTC but other better altcoins deserve all attention too

It depends mainly if we are in a bear market or in the bull market. Basically we see that if BTC grows, altcoins grow more if we are in a bull market, but in the bear market altcoins fall more than Bitcoin, so the price of altcoins is more volatile.

But this time, I think the altcoin is going down too follow bitcoin price, and there is no sign for the altcoin to go up. But not all altcoin is down because if we check at the market, some altcoin can increase but it's not much higher. I am sure that the bear market will end soon, and the bull market will come soon. So we need to wait for a while, and we can try to survive in these situations.

I don't know what you really want to achieve from that, but you're probably right about that. Their utility on some platforms, exchanges or websites, not all altcoins are pure cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.

Coming from another perspective, I think Bitcoin is depending on what lies within to keep growing and that is what has been attracting people till today, which is trust; Ethereum is also another coin which is trying its best to keep updating its platform to be better and this is why they are good in their different aspects. That am trying to point out is that, an altcoin is meant to be unique and the team are meant to be hardworking but that's not the case with most altcoins today, people go for value and once it is not found in that project they will move to another.

Truth is, we have altcoins that are not btc paired,  but are usdt paired; and even at that none has been able to usurp bitcoin.
bitcoins dominance is not a childs play, it is the king of all crypto currency tokens.

Also, correcting your views, there have been enough altcoins bull run which had nothing to do with bitcoin bullrun, dyor and focus on the basics always which is taking profits.

Stablecoins do not depend on the price of bitcoin, but it is a stable currency. So it will never be able to surpass bitcoin in this market. And in addition all other altcoins are dependent on bitcoin because it is the leading cryptoccurency in this market and its price determines everything.

Of course, if altcoins does not rely on bitcoin, they have a chance to beat bitcoin on its spot, but that is not the reality, bitcoin always dominate the market and majority of altcoins or the entire altcoins heavily relies on the movement of bitcoin.

Basic and simple explanation is this. 
https://coinmarketcap.com/

https://imgbbb.com/images/2020/06/08/save.png

As you can see, bitcoin dominance is 64.7% in the entire market, hence 35.3% only belongs to the entire altcoin, if you know how to read that, you'll understand that there's no way altcoin would beat bitcoin.

You are wrong and right, depends on your understanding, altcoins find it very hard to beat Bitcoin mainly because Bitcoin have the highest volume and liquidity, also it's the first crypto which gains stronger foundation that the rest

I agree with that bitcoin can lead altcoin to increase. Bitcoin bull run can make some altcoin to increase the value at the same time. It is not that thing is dependent over the other, it is depend.on the value and volume of the coin along the market.

At some point, you will always wonder about that. Very possible in the long run, but definitely not today, specially that bitcoin is still on top for years to come!

I doubt in the long run where altcoin could dominance and dethrone bitcoin. If they aren't doing it right now, they wont in the future since that only consolidates and allows bitcoin to spread its root further.

Exactly, people against altcoins do always forget how much time it took for bitcoin to climb that price.
Meanwhile most of alts are showing better results already and growing tempo, but most of us are staying ignorant to this

Exactly like that. We have over 5000 altcoins in this market, but they account for only 37% of the total market capitalization. So there is no chance for altcoins to beat bitcoin, now people tend to move altcoins to bitcoin, so in the near future bitcoin dominance will definitely continue to rise.

there will be a time, but for now altcoin is still dependent on the price of Bitcoin,
if bitcoin goes up then altcoin goes up, but if bitcoin goes down altcoin also goes down

You are very right, altcoins depends mainly on bitcoin, this is the main reason altcoins will never overthrone bitcoin anytime soon. But nobody know what the future holds for altcoins, but am sure if atall altcoins will later overthrone bitcoin, it won't be anytime soon.

That figure alone shows that btc is really dominant in the crypto market and will not change anytime soon. This is the reason why you will see that most alts are just following the price trend in the market. And in this regard, we all know that btc is still holding its position as the no. 1 crypto ever existed.

No, i think every coin has its own uniquness and use cases, bitcoin is respected due to its premierness and being the first of its class so it cannot be compared with alts and it will always have that unique edge over all other coins also people like to hold btc more than any other coin most probably because over the years bitcoin has established itself as an asset class and a brand where people are attracted to invest.

Well, in my opinion what you are saying is kind of true but dethroning bitcoin price-wise would be next to impossible but by market cap, it's quite possible.

Well it was a no for me because many coin that is not relay on bitcoin but still not on the top they are just pair on usdt but not fly too much and besides the bitcoin is the first virtual currency if there is no bitcoin then there is no virtual currency nowadays and another is not all altcoin was depend on the price of the bitcoin sometimes when bitcoin up many of them goes up too and do rally.

I think so consider the domination of bitcoin is still absolute for the altcoins. When there was a big dump that happened with bitcoin and that will be affecting the altcoin too.

I think that people knew about this. They will always liquidate their coins for bitcoin and this is the point.

Bitcoin has dominated the crypto market for a long time, it's normal because bitcoin is the first in the crypto world. When talking about cryptocurrency, the general public must immediately think about bitcoin. Whereas we know that there are many altcoins on the market today. With this great power, often the price of bitcoin affects the market as a whole, sometimes when BTC is up, followed by alt, sometimes also vice versa.

Altcoin is totally depended on the bitcoin. The correlation is really strong and when bitcoin market is really stable and then bitcoin whale will be moving to search for the liquidity on altcoin market.
Altcoin can do nothing without bitcoin.

The chances are clear if you look into different market perspectives. But have something to find out that Bitcoin's market volume still dominating compared to ETH and the rest of the leading altcoins. If ever we turning back and start over again, still we can't be assured that everything will work the same as what we think now.
What makes Bitcoin having a dominating power over crypto is because people are considering it as the most promising and potential high gaining investment in crypto. I know people have also holding Ethereum but most likely more people are holding Bitcoin than Ethereum.

https://www.finder.com/bitcoin-statistics

Let us say, altcoins won't depend on BTC in time, I still believe that bitcoin will be number 1 as it is the original and even though some altcoins outperformed BTC when it comes to use cases people will still remember BTC as the first and the reputation is still so high. However as time passed by maybe, just maybe, another one will come up and beat BTC.

Right! BTC is too powerful to be affected by other coins. In fact, BTC has a strong effect on all of the altcoins in the market. Traders usually based on the behavior of BTC to make a decision on altcoins. That's just the common thing in the cryptocurrency market.

well said op that if altcoins don't depend on bitcoin price some altcoin go to the over bitcoin price. But in the crypto world, you can not think anything without bitcoin. Because bitcoin is the father/king of cryptocurrencies, So always all movement/thinkings are dependent on bitcoin.

I believe that this situation will not come in the future. And no altcoin will overthrow the bitcoin. This thought just a dream to me.

Expecting altcoin to not depend on bitcoin is just everyone's hope but in reality until whenever altcoins always depend on the value of bitcoin, as the saying goes that if the big one will rule

at this time bitcoin always affects the price of an altcoin. altcoin prices sometimes develop when bitcoin prices are stable because there is some development they are doing. so far, there is no altcoin that is not affected by the price of bitcoin and moreover there is no altcoin approaching the current throne of bitcoin.

Altcoins are still depending on the price of bitcoin and following its movement. Its the most popular crypto and accepted by some merchants and can be use to shop online.

Having a huge supporters and investors making it to be on top.

So if there's a btc bullrun expect the price of alts to follow the trend.

Yes, I think I tend to agree with your opinion that many altcoins prices depends on the price movement of Bitcoin this to me might be due to the price stability of Bitcoin however there are some exceptional stable altcoins in the crypto market space that tend to behaves a little bit different from Bitcoin price movement

Sometimes when altcoin has released a good update about it and then it may get increase without need to following what bitcoin does.
The big one will rule when the market was getting panic and tried to convert their money into the coint that dictate the market like ethereum or bitcoin.

that's right, there will definitely be another altcoin that will rival bitcoin if as you mentioned, but because altcoin price movements follow the movements of bitcoin then for now no one can compete with BTC for the next few years.

if so it's possible, but almost or even all altcoin depends on the value of BTC, so they will remain under btc.
although some coin exchanges do not have a BTC pair, the ups and downs of the BTC price affect the value of the coin.

Altcoins price definately not depend on Bitcoin Price as i experienced in crytpo currency from past 4 years . Its Event driven if any major events going to happen in future coins  will pump lets last LTC pump , ethereum pump everything . even previous bitcoin pump happend because of Bitcoin Halvign exchanges and whales decide which coin to pump for  how many days . We should look into events in major forms and some youtube channel to analyze market

It is very obvious that altcoins depends on bitcoin for a healthy growth,no matter how a token seem to move independent of bitcoin, once there is a huge dip of bitcoin it will definitely dip also, altcoins are in existence because bitcoin is doing well,once bitcoin falls,then be mindful of altcoins.

Still depends on trading volume and market cap, even If Bitcoin is the first and failed to maintain a high marketcap over others them it will lose its position on coinmarketcap, Bitcoin isn't the first because it's the first crypto coin but because it has the highest marketcap, well supported too

It's the real reason why many coins depend on Bitcoin movement because Bitcoin drives the entire Market with it's own marketcap been the highest, that's it

How can one altcoin will overthrone Bitcoin when the first mentioned are Capitalizing almost the whole market?
and why so curious about over throne Bitcoin when this coin is serving good the whole crypto community?

why instead of looking for the change of power,lets just focus in our support for their altcoins?

as far as I know there is no altcoin that can replace or defeat BTC in any case. as we know that BTC always dominates the cryptoqurrency market and I think the price of altcoin will always depend on the increase in the price of the BTC itself.

if altcoin does not depend on bitcoin, it can happen as you said because from the beginning until now the ups and downs of altcoin prices follow the movements of the price of Bitcoin.

That is mostly right l also think so that altcoins depend on BTC value, that is why we always say that when BTC starts rising up, altcoins will follow it. But sometimes we can see just different than expected, that means altcoins can move without any effect by BTC.  but to tell the truth, it is something different from our expecting, as you above mentioned.

Any coin can create its own value just by having some real world application and continuous user for it. It means that any coin can stand on its own legs if it is having continuous buyers. I believe this is not right to call bitcoin is intervening on values of other coins. We are just using bitcoin to estimate the value of other coins which means bitcoin is being used as a reference value and nothing more. As we all know, bitcoin is being valued in terms of USD which doesn't mean that USD in intervening.

If some devs are capable of creating highly potential coin and if it keeps attracting continuous investor than it will have huge value greater than bitcoin as well. But, that doesn't mean it will have value on its own, even it will be having value higher than bitcoin, still it will need bitcoins for reference to estimate its value.

Altcoins has it's own path but bitcoin really influences the market, because these altcoins are trading with BTC pairs if BTC goes up the value of altcoins goes up too. But sometimes when BTC is going up it sucks some liquidity from altcoins. For me, Bitcoin will be the first forever because it is the creation of Satoshi it has trust from the majority of people. Some altcoins already surpassed bitcoin in terms of technology but they will never beat bitcoin.