Bitcoin Forum

FLAG CREATED:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2203

WHAT HAPPENED:

Last July 27th (Monday), Sportsbet.io froze my account by the time I attempted to withdraw, and after sending them several emails and having waited for several hours, I was asked to send some documents for KYC.

I sent the requested documents immediately, I even sent extra documents that they did not request (like a selfie of myself holding my passport and a paper with my username written on it), just to make sure they could not have the excuse to say that I had failed the KYC and could not return my funds (I was already reading complains on this forum).

Then, on July 28th, I was requested to undergo a Veriff KYC process, which I did and was stated on the App to be successful. But yet, they did not unlock my funds as I had expected, and on July 29th, I received another email on which I was accused of multiaccounting. My reply to those accusations were simple, I denied having created other accounts as I only created and used an account since the moment I started playing on their site.

On the following day, July 30th, I was given several usernames and I was asked if these sounded familiar, however, I firmly defended myself because I had zero involvements with those accounts. I was not given proper evidence justifying their accusations, not even adequate communication.

After that, I did not receive more emails from them. My funds were locked on their site and I was not receiving proper assistance/communication from their part.

Finally, yesterday (4 days since their last reply) I received an email from them.

First, they said that my KYC was unsuccessful because I broke their T&C, which it is absolutely false, because as I said numerous times, I was not multiaccounting. I even provided additional, clear and more specific, documents, to make it easier for them to properly verify me (also suggesting to sign the wallet I used to make the deposits). How could they say that my KYC was not successful? That's unexcusable to say I failed KYC after having sent that many documents, and always, of course, zero evidences, justifications or clarifications.

And second, I was offered the refund of my deposit (0.4279btc), only. They were not going to refund the whole account balance I had at the time they froze it (0.448 btc). The difference is really small, I had small profits (21 mBTC) but it does not matter, I won those funds legitimally and so they belong to me. If I had lost my deposit, nothing would have been returned, therefore, it is not fair from them to make excuses as to randomly froze accounts, for suspicions of "multiaccounting", taking more than a week to give solutions and then, confiscate funds. As I have already mentioned, I was not even given proof, all I received were automated messages.

I have seen the exact same emails on several other complains with only usernames and amounts edited, which provides enough evidence as to determine these are automated messages (for example, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.0 or https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266016.0 among dozens of other reports).

Today, they sent the deposit back to me, but they did not reply to any of my emails asking for explanations and for the refund of all the funds I had in my account. Actually, they have been ignoring me since the first day, and I was even blocked from the Live Chat Support after asking them to transfer me to another agent after seeing their non-stop of sending me automated messages.

This week has been a horrible experience, stress and anxiety followed by sleepless nights, waiting for a solution to put an end on this issue, as I was feeling my funds were being stolen. But yet, they ignored all my emails as neither I have received any specific answer (only automated messages that can be found on several other complains throughout the internet), nor a single clarification.

I have never received proper communication, which I deserve as a costumer.

Those profits belong to me, I did nothing wrong as to obtain them and I did not break any of their T&C, so I want to recover my whole balance. Even if it was only a cent, it would still be FULLY legitimate funds, therefore still belonging to me and demandable.

I did nothing wrong and this whole week has been a nightmare, experience which I do not deserve at all and I can not forgive.

What have brought me the biggest concern is to seeing SO MANY cases against this site, mostly on bitcointalk.org, I could have never imagined that I was giving my trust on a site with such complains.

SCAMMERS PROFILE LINK:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=832366

LINKS FOR REFERENCE:
 

• my report:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266626.0

• several other reports:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266016.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5189479.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2482179.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2461108.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5180294.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1863248.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5130400.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4516396.0

AMOUNT REFUNDED: 427 mBTC

AMOUNT SCAMMED: 21 mBTC (~200€)

PAYMENT METHOD: BITCOIN

PROOF OF PAYMENT:

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/ca0bc25255ab15a24f63d33a9a55884cc099ecc473d1983639f2a0c6ae18b46f
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/c244a0878d0afb74c56033edf0dc6b3e9487db7fd971c612c94c083c8b511ce3

https://imgur.com/a/YrQmBDK

PM/CHAT LOGS:

• emails:

https://imgur.com/a/SzBki8r
https://imgur.com/a/9U2Modd
https://imgur.com/a/fIdcITc
https://imgur.com/a/6t64yqs
https://imgur.com/a/A3kO83Z

• chat on which I was blocked:

https://imgur.com/a/IXQVPJb
https://imgur.com/a/opfDJb3
https://imgur.com/a/NUZdnsx
https://imgur.com/a/ft2IfAX
https://imgur.com/a/tsrPe6S
https://imgur.com/a/DVfCciy


Neither I was too repetitive nor I used abusive language, I just wanted to confirm whether that specific department worked on weekends and if there was any update on my case (on the previous chat I was told that there could be an update after 48h).
 
This kind of costumer care is totally unacceptable. I believe the agent blocked me as to avoid any negative feedback from my part once the chat was closed, as the first couple of days I had had other chats on which I was really concerned and stressed, but then I was never blocked.

BETS:

https://imgur.com/a/5QuHTkC
https://imgur.com/a/RGL7FLR
https://imgur.com/a/SA3GrsG
https://imgur.com/a/YT5qhOs
https://imgur.com/a/imnNX7z
https://imgur.com/a/wzssreN
https://imgur.com/a/WZ9p5nD
https://imgur.com/a/BifNir0
https://imgur.com/a/P5MSZQa
https://imgur.com/a/bb3jzvJ
https://imgur.com/a/T0LNO8X
https://imgur.com/a/9ef5BUr
https://imgur.com/a/1eEAvYW
https://imgur.com/a/eUcvjmK
https://imgur.com/a/mV9hnsB

ADDITIONAL NOTES:

Only by typing ''sportsbet.io scam'' on google, you find dozens of complains, and many of them having a case similar to mine.
The many people reporting them is not coincidence, it is evidence speaking by itself.
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=1HgpX5DLCKGwmAW_pLXQDA&q=sportsbet.io+scam&oq=sportsbet.io+scam&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzoCCAA6BAgAEAo6BggAEBYQHlAiWPETYKYXaABwAHgBgAGMAYgBzQmSAQM3LjWYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiQhcz_6IHrAhUhGKYKHT9SDcoQ4dUDCAY&uact=5

Quoted for reference.
I have not looked at the details yet. From last few days I am trying to ignore all these accusations against sportsbet.io. I really hate this but too many of it are just not ignorable too.

Steve (sportsbet.io), please look at the cases' buddy.

Watching this thread.

Having gone over the images, there is a striking similarity to other recent cases. Opening up a precedent of "In ToS = OK!" is going to be bad.

imgur hates Tor so all I get is a bunch of giraffes instead of screenshots.

You must be looking at the graphs all wrong.

---

Emails:

https://i.imgur.com/5ZsP35F.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fTsSmbM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/DxKBsFI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gsfbe6u.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fa0Yvsn.jpg

---

The chat messages are unnecessary to include.

^
screenshot #2: SB asked player if they have more accounts (seems they are not sure)
screenshot #3: according to SB, player said they don't have more accounts, SB asked player about connection to some accounts (again it sounds like they are not sure), and all of sudden:
screenshot #4: player fail verification process because of...something in ToS.

@sportsbet, why did player fail verification process?

This is so funny:

SB: Please go through KYC in order to verify your identity
Player: Done
SB: Verification failed because you broke ToS

Absolutely ridiculous - that standard response alone they have in place is a joke - how could a verification fail due to breaking ToS, lol - this is like talking about two completely different things.

Nb. I got quiet all these days because the last drama seriously became unreal but I feel we will soon have to start over again from scratch...

This is a valid question. Why did the user fail verification especially at that late stage after the questions and answers?

It is becoming clear the cases of allegations against Sportsbet are increasing and their ToS is being used as the reason or pretence (depending on how you see it) to confiscate user funds.

Sportsbet really need to sort this and the other allegations against them as this is ruining their reputation and is one day going to call in to question the moral compass of all those displaying Sportsbet avatars and signatures.

https://i.imgur.com/fqkTV4j.png

Heey, I have seen this email couple of times already. Never mind, imagine this:

SB: "Your account verification was successful but you broke one of rules from our ToS
Player: "Which one?"
SB: "It is one from 1 - 7 but very likely you breached rule #6 (...if we determine that you are breaching any term of these terms and conditions...)"

Of course, rule #6 covers whole ToS.

https://i.imgur.com/gsfbe6u.jpg

tldr;

"We can deicde to lock your account if we don't like you."

And I thought crypto casinos would be somehow different than the FIAT casinos.

The only way to prevent multi-accounting is to do KYC.

- Suspicious?
Do KYC and let them go with the money they have including the winning if any. Lock the account.

- Suspicious?
DO KYC.
- KYC match with the other account?
Let them go without giving back any money. Lock the account.

Does this sound fair for both party?

---

Even if it's a crypto bookies, you still need KYC to identify a person.

How do you see Sportsbet addressing this one? It is not looking good for them right now with this increase of complaints.

Any time a casino asks for KYC, there should be a reason for it.

If they determined that the user was multi-accounting without the information from the KYC, there was no point in requesting it and thus they are merely using the balance as a hostage for the gambler to relinquish their dox. If, however, they determined that the user was multi-accounting with the information from the KYC, then they should explicitly state this.

But if you ask for KYC and then say, "you're multi-accounting," without any indication of why... then you're just getting KYC from desperate gamblers for free, and that is completely dishonest.

Maybe sportsbet.io is under some government pressure since they have some big sponsorships and everybody has their eyes on them so they are trying to eliminate any kind of risk whenever possible. Just a possibility and a shitty one...

It's exhausting, boring, unpleasant experience.


KYC is expensive that's what I learnt.
To save some money a casino can KYC a user when they find it suspicious. Have the KYC and let them play as long as the casino can afford.

At least not from the gambling website's end, because if KYC documents have been provided, they need not to harass their customers like this. I'm personally a fan (yes I'm still am) of sportsbet.io but the number of complains being raised on a daily basis have rung alarms in my heart for them.


That's absolutely true that KYC can be asked from any entity when and whether they see it to be fit. But even after going through Veriff, an automated verifying service, what makes them not to give the result in OP's favor?  

And for the multi-accounting part, I have got a question here.
Let's take an example of a soccer game, and I have only one account. The odds are -
Team A - 2.xx
Draw - 4.xx
Team B - 2.xx

Now, if I'm so sure that my team (Team A) will win for sure, I'll place a bet on them immediately at 2+ odds. Now, if I believe that the game could change any moment and Team B may take over the match, I'll place a bet on Team B even when their odds are higher than 3 (loss-cutting strategy - hedging). Either team wins, I'll definitely gain something and if draw takes place, that's where I lose everything. So, what's the need of multi-accounting here? To place a bet on draw?  :D

Asking for KYC is not harassment. Harassment is when you ask for KYC then bring up the ToS, accuse that it's multi-account, do not show any proof of multi-accounting from the KYC reference, then you lock the account, then a user is going through all this public forum things and is taking heat (scammers etc) just because it's a newbie account.

That's harassment.

You took my words wrong way, brother.
What you said is what I meant, please re-read what I said. I said that if KYC documents have been provided, then what's the need at the casino's end to harass their customer by coming up with all such shit like multi-accounts, no proofs, nothing and just giving back their deposits without giving them their winnings? It feels like begging for our own money. Isn't that harassment?

Most unexpected thing is that some gambling platforms are using the KYC for their own benefit and using it as a weapon. Everything goes well until anyone make a good win but after a big win they ask for KYC. Even after successful KYC submission they block account just by showing a common reason "Multi account".

My question is,  If your platform don't allow multi accounts then why didn't you detected the user before winning/placing the bet. So you guys have no issues if multi account user lose the bet but rules only activate when they win....Huh.

Multi-accounting is relevant to Sportsbet.io as they have those "price boost" features for accounts. With multiple accounts, you could presumably take advantage of this on multiple occasions for a given market, which reduces their ev. Since casinos hate being cheated on their "bonuses" (utterly terrible ev) with multiple accounts, you could imagine why they have a problem with this as well.

Shit! Apologies buddy :-D

Sportsbet is getting bigger, and we will see more complaints like this and in some cases they will be legit too. SB needs to be serious about KYCing and make decision based on the KYC results.

In the recent some cases we did not see big wins. There are cases which are peanuts for SB to resolve and stop all these nonsense.

You might be on to something but there is a little bit more to this because when going to the sportsbet.io website from the UK the URL gets diverted to sportsbetio.uk and there are lots of terms and conditions they have to abide by including very strict UK laws with them being based in the Isle of Man.

The website "sportsbet.io" itself has largely nothing in protection for the end user with their organisation based in Curaçao "mBet Solutions NV (Kaya Richard J. Beaujon Z/N Landhuis Joonchi II Curaçao)" and states "It is licensed and regulated by the Government of Curaçao under the gaming license 1668/JAZ."

We all know a Curaçao licence is effectively a useless one that does nothing except give a false sense of legitimacy to any website that applies for it but Sportsbet are differentiating between "sportsbet.io" and "sportsbetio.uk"

The UK site is FIAT-only, though. Perhaps they merely combined the various processes between the UK site and the BTC site, and the overlap was too stringent for general gamblers?

When it comes to multiple account detection, depending on the methods used, results may vary. And of course, the larger the player-base, the greater chance of false positives.

There is something strange going on with the number of complaints against Sportsbet increasing. I am looking forward to what Sportsbet have to add in this thread, we need some sort of clarity.

An exit-scam maybe?
I don't really want Sportsbet ending it all this way because too many hearts (including mine) will be broken if this happens. I don't know why there are no clarifications even in the previous threads made by other users, makes me worried. I don't have anything on sportsbet ATM but these things have created a scary situation where the most trusted casino is behaving shady.

Under...Curacao pressure? Lol.
If someone is accused of multi-accounting and casino enforce KYC to one account, only thing they really prove is that 1 account belongs to that one person. It really doesn't prove anything else, let's not forget accusation and reason for banning player in the first place.

Under the pressure of the QUEEN of the UNITED KINGDOM.

They have a sponsorship deal with Watford F.C -right?- they must be legitimate.. I thought that was obvious.

Maybe this is just how they operate but now more users are posting their experiences public due to seeing other posts on google.


2 different companies, from my research sportsbetio.uk is a white label site that they license from a UK regulr. They released this site as part of their Watford FC sponsorship, it does not accept bitcoin and is heavily regulated by the UK Gambling Commission

But as for Sportsbet.io, well that’s a different matter. All the complaints are from their non-UK site.

It says they are "owned and operated by mBet Soulutions NV" and "licensed and regulated by the Government of Curaçao".

It's in their ToS, you know...

Created the account in just a matter of seconds, played for hours without any issue, then "multiaccounting" isnt detected until Im withdrawing, right? Lol.. never providing any proof to justify their actions.

I totally expected to be refunded immediately after sending all the KYC docs and successfully finishing Veriff.

The fact of not even knowing whether my deposit would be refunded after a whole week, truly made me go through a nightmare (I sent all the KYC docs. on the first day).

I just read the entire OP. And my take:


https://i.imgur.com/p49CFYM.png

What is this crap! How (i), (ii), (iii), (iv), (v), (vi) and (vii) are related to KYC verification?


Unless you find a different person in the selfie and the ID or you have exact match of the person with another account you have in sportsbet. I would like to know what was the report from veriff.com team.

As far as I know, after uploading my pics and waiting for a few seconds, I was told that I had been successfully verified.
I do not really believe the report they gave to Sportsbef.io should have much difference since Veriff had already informed me that it was successul.

I did not know how veriff.com work but now this make sense to use a third party.

---

1. If passing or failing KYC that is coming from the third party does not matter then why this veriff.com KYC? @Sportsbet.io
2. And my first question still remains: How (i), (ii), (iii), (iv), (v), (vi) and (vii) are related to KYC verification?

I should have had to take a screenshot right at the screen showing "successfully verified". Sadly, I did not expect I would end up needing such thing.

I am happy to give you benefit of the doubt in this veriff.com matter.

Anyway, I have requested Steve to look at this case along with another one. I will wait for him to make a statement here before telling anything else in this matter.

Good luck.

I wonder why all this Veriff thing and all the docs. requested by Sportsbet.io if later on they excuse themselves as "your KYC failed" to do whatever they please.

Will see,.. anyway, thanks.

I agree on the timing issue.

If you ask for KYC, and then it fails you should know why.

Since the KYC process is handled by Veriff, which should be a trusted third party in the matter, the customer should just have the answer from Veriff regarding the KYC.

If SP does externalize the KYC, both parties should receive the answer from the third party regarding said KYC.

If KYC passes, no ground to block account, or SP should've done it in the first place and not use the KYC as a pretense.

Absolutely.

In fact, I would not be sharing my personal data to them if I knew it was going to be useless, as being a successful KYC or not, their final decision would end up being the same.

Actually, I am quiet confused on why they request all that sensitive information.

Being allowed to register, deposit and play, in a matter of seconds, but having this many problems when you try to withdraw, it is somethig that really bothers me.

I don't think the UK would give a damn about the government of Curaçao and their laws.

But these are only assumptions.

Maybe sportsbet.io are just assholes. That's a possibility too.

They are turning over millions of USD$ per year so in my opinion there is no chance of an exit-strategy going by Sportsbet.

Hi guys,
In relation to this, the matter has been discussed several times via email with the player. We won't be revealing the content of the email publicly, this is for the player to share only if they choose to do so.

We have multiple levels of checks put in place at different points of the player's journey with us. We are in contact with the player at certain stages to clarify situations that may arise due to our checks.

It has been pointed out on the forum that a lot of situations are arising at the moment in regards to Ukrainian and Russian Table tennis. This is no coincidence. As always, we urge all forum users to think critically about such patterns and the potential motives behind them.

As for veriff, all veriff is an online personal ID verification service, and when you submit your documents properly, it says “accepted” - this is only the case that the documents have been uploaded correctly. Veriff does not make the decision on any matter related to our sportsbook. The information is then provided to our team and we make the FINAL decision on the account matters based on all information in front of us, NOT SOLELY on the KYC efforts.

In regards to the player's claim about "never received proper information" from us, this is just plain and simple untrue. Our processes for checking and communicating with players are robust and we’re confident in them.

Added to this, bringing up cases in the past from 2017 to give some sort of credibility to a current case is just  grasping at straws here.

If we suspect and issues we gather all information required to make a business decision and then choose the course of action. We payout true and legitimate winnings on a minute by minute basis. For those who have been with us, you would have seen this to be the case on all occasions for several years.

So please understand if we need to take action if we identify the a case to be an illegitimate win - as do all sportsbooks in the industry.

The deposit, in this case, has been returned to the player.. (0.4279btc) and the account shall remain shut. The player has left with the amount of BTC they started with.

I’d like to take this time to reinforce and remind all players to gamble responsibly in these current uncertain times.

There are some very concerning quotes here and we take them very seriously.  Betting is a form of entertainment and we certainly would never want a player to be in any distress from betting. We have processes in place to help players and will always be vigilant in seeing these through.

thank you and regards,

Steve,
Sportbset.io

Sorry but your response is full on nonsense.

FIRST, Veriff stated "Successfully Verified", nothing about "accepted", "uploaded" or "uploaded successfully", as you are mentioning. Also, as I have already said, I even sent you extra docs. that were not asked, such a selfie of myself, holding my passport and a paper with my username written on it (I was already reading MANY of the complains around the internet and I was trying to make sure you could not deny that my KYC was successful).

You say that you do not solely make your final decision on the KYC resolution, but then why everyone is asked to go through the same exact stages? Why are your automated emails being sent on the same generic order? There is not a specific decision to be made here, you are only making random players to go through your sole and odd harrassment, and at the end you ALWAYS keep no less than the player's profits.

SECOND, I have never received proper communication, assistance or information from you. This must be clear, I sent you many emails and I was NEVER answered to any of my specific questions. You based your "assistance" on sending me a single automated reply on a 24-48h basis. Moreover, you have not discussed anything else than what is seen on the emails that I have publicly shared. These are exact to the emails shared on several other complaints against you, what are you suggesting you discussed with me? In short, nothing, your claims are ridiculous.

After so many days of shitty assistance, I even opened this account on bitcointalk to reach out to you in private and your replies were all the same, like " I will check it" and "they will reply to you asap", nothing else.

In addition, when I was seeing the "great" treatment received by email, I seeked help on the live chat, and they NEVER gave me any assistance, but instead kept on giving more automated messages like "be patient, they will reply you asap", "if you have any issue, send them an email", etc.

THIRD, I would like to remind you that we have been going through very hard times this year, and we have gone through several months on which any top sports leagues were having matches.

Nonetheless, table tennis was playing, and I am not going to lie, I have never played on these matches before, but I gave it a try and it was fun enough as to keep on doing it (also, I am not Russian/Ukrainian, I do not know if you are trying to say so). If La Liga, ATP, NHL, Premier League,... were playing at the time I am able to bet on live sports, I would be more than happy to place bets on their matches too!

Isn't it allowed to play on live Table Tennis? I will empathize that I have never played on your site before and on Monday, July 27th, I gave sportsbet.io a try. At the time there were specific table tennis leagues playing, some of which with better markets than others, so here I go. What is wrong with that? I do not mind the leagues, Russian, Turkish, German or Chinese,.. again, what are you trying to say here? (NONE OF YOUR EXPLANATIONS HAVE NEVER EVER BEEN MENTIONED TO ME BEFORE).

FOURTH, you are saying that if you detect a "illegitimate win",... really? Which one? I posted all my bets, you can expose it here! I dont care! Because there is none, all these are legitimate! You are making up too many excuses regarding my complaint, but you can not escape responsability to expose the truth.

You seized my profits for your on please, as if I was suspected from the so called "multiaccounting", the balance should be returned as it was when it was frozen, nothing less, you can shut the account if you like, but you can not be stealing players funds like this (how many cases like mine around??). If I had lost my deposits, my funds would not move from your pocket and multiaccounting would have never been mentioned.

In short, I believe all you have said are pure made up excuses because I do not even think your "famous" securiry department can even give you a valid reason about why they stole my funds.

▪︎The funds belong to me so, kindly, give them back to me.

Therefore, I would like to ask you to kindly and honestly justify publicly why lately so many players are having the exact same issue with you.

I am looking forward for your reply.

THANK YOU.

Excuse me Steve, but what patterns are you talking about? All pattern I see is that SB accepted bunch of bets and now is accusing random people of multiaccounting and some illegal shit:

You offered match so players can bet, they did and you call it illegitimate win, I am pretty sure everyone here would like to see some proofs of that "illegitimate win".

Did player pass Veriff? It's simple yes - no question.

Not to change the subject of this thread but I think this last part of Sportsbet.io’s reply might be hinting towards this responsible gambling thread of huge losses https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265723.msg54903210#msg54903210 :/, not that vigilant it seems!

But looks like sportsbet.io are the target of some Russian table tennis scam? Not implying OP is part of it but I see between the lines that is their suspicion

And maybe some innocent users are the subject of their investigations and possibly being falsely punished for it

During the last 2 days, I have sent several emails to your security department requesting the reimbursement of my profits, and so far, I have not even received a reply, not a single clarification.

Then you claim "our processes for checking and communicating with players are robust and we’re confident in them", absolute hogwash.

Maybe I will not recover my funds, but Karma will pay back, eventually.  ;D

Ok, someone place large bet in casino, wins, casino calls them "addicted gambler" and seize their funds because they didn't do it for entertainment. What is this, a porn site?

It looks like a messed up statement with mixed responses for the latest complaints against them, because neither I am Russian, nor I had a gambling addiction and never I was accused of some kind of bs involving these table tennis matches.

Their statements keep on being empty. No clarifications or justifications on specific issues. And yet, there is no mentioning to the alleged multiaccounting accusations.

I believe they are not even able to deal with that many complaints at the same time.

It is not easy to hide the truth.

Here is what a critically-thinking unbiased person is likely to conclude from your statement:

"pointed out on the forum" - hearsay. Does Sportsbet stand by that accusation and if not - why is it even here in a rebuttal of a customer complaint?

"situations are arising at the moment in regards to Ukrainian and Russian Table tennis" - the situation seems to be that Sportsbet offers those markets, takes bets on them, then reverses those bets.

"This is no coincidence" - possibly, but given that Sportsbet is in control of the aforementioned "situations", it seems more like a systemic deficiency on Sportsbet's part than what you probably had in mind.

"potential motives" - speculation. Spell it out and put Sportsbet's name on it, otherwise it sounds like an underhanded attempt to discredit a customer.

Steve, clearly Sportsbet believe they are right and under their ToS they might well be but there is a major problem here. In many cases of allegations against Sportsbet they are withholding tiny amounts of funds which are actual wins and returning deposits providing the customer has not already won by breaching Sportsbet ToS.

As matter of principle I would always stand by any organisation that would take a stand as their own matter of principle which clearly Sportsbet are doing with these recent accusations but when the amount is so tiny is it not better to simply pay the amount and then close the account of that customer?

It would at least save all this flurry of negative publicity that Sportsbet has been getting recently. Is that a price worth paying over matter of principle that bring so much negative press?

sportsbet.io's explanation of last events is a complete joke.

It is like it was written by a random forum shill instead of the official representative of the casino.

Be straight, address the issues, post the proofs and everybody will be content.

Do not Turn this into a "there are things you people don't know about" kinda conspiracy theory. (That's our job :d)

Just tell us what it is otherwise shut up.

Unable to even get their facts straight and provide a proper statement.

Just embarassing.

1. What was Veriff's report result? Positive or negative.
2. Have you found is documents to match with someone else?
3. Have you found the face on the selfie mismatch with the face on the IDs?
4. Have you found the documents are counterfeited?

Please use yes/no to your answers for 2, 3, 4.


Unfortunately in the recent time it's a mess looking at the number of concerns around.


If so then I am very interested in this case: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265723.msg54925391#msg54925391
I will watch this to see where it' going.

---

https://i.imgur.com/ihktMO6.png

@jeremypwr, you can write whatever you want to anyone's trust page but this: This has gone too far.

You are directly point it to me and some others who are looking for answers.

Are you saying/suggesting not to question sportsbet? If so then why?

Wtf is this? Isn't he the sig campaign manager of this casino? How can somebody right in the mind  say something like this especially when he is in this position lol instant distrust.

edit: I see that rating is from 4 months ago. My thoughts about it still  not changed. It stinks.

I assume people are getting paid for giving them propaganda, am I wrong?

to be fair that was like 4 months ago , not sure what was happening at that time but probably in a response to a scammer who made tons of drama in the past ( no idea what was it tho )

of course anyone can question any site any time when there are valid reasons of doing so.

Okay, fair enough. I am okay with this now.
For some reason I thought this was recent LOL. I did not check the date after seeing it at the top. Where are all those recent feedback left on the wall?

I withdraw my questing on him. Apology to jeremypwr.

Yeah, bad pick from me. Sorry.

Well said mindtrust.
I've merited you for this post.



With their attitude it seems highly likely indeed.

I don’t think we will see any further comments from sportsbet on this matter unless more attention is raised to the thread, it has not gained much attention really and I think that’s because most users see it as the fault of the OP and not as a scam. But this comment from them certainly seems related.

Given the amount of money involved they will probably avoid commenting on it unless they really have to. The flag did not get enough support either

—

Overall it seems that sportsbet are giving extremely generic responses to all these cases, without indulging into any information or reasoning at all, hoping users will just agree and move on

Trying to distort the truth and putting the blame on the player seems likely how Sportsbet.io "fixes" issues with its costumers

What is your true goal to commenting on these threads?

Are you trying to discredit my report now?

Why would it even be my fault? My fault for choosing to be their costumer, I guess..

Your interactions truly do not make any sense, from time to time you decide to blame one side and then, "suddently", the other.

Are you trying to avoid further negative feedback trying to seem more unbiased?

You really do not seem unbiased to me.

This is why the future is non custodial, smart contract based sports betting sites that don't do KYC nor ever have possession of your funds.

Reread what adam wrote: they are not criticizing you nor are they trying to seem unbiased.

---

They're basically just saying that a number of users think that it's your fault. Usually, those parroting the same old cliche of, "you violated the ToS, therefore it's your fault!"

Do you honestly believe otherwise? If so, why?

The true motives for this adam0991 account posting in these threads is unknown but they are clearly interested in trying to make themselves relevant.

They gave multiple ToS and said "we suspect you violated one of the following, so we keep your profits", without even specifiying which ToS.

Then, where is the evidence? What is justifying their actions besides saying that I am suspected of breaching the rules?

As others already said, its their word against mine, as no proof is even given. If they are truly honest, they would give simple and clear evidence, but they are not.

And I am not the only one having funds seized and then not even being given evidence for these actions.

Got you, I might have missunderstood some of Adam0991's sentences, apologizes if so.

I am just exhausted of having to go through all of this for only willing to recover legitimate funds, and then being pointed out as the one to blame.

The whole experience with this site was horrible. Sportsbet.io took more than a week to tell me what they would do with my account balance, and during that time I was going insanely stressed, a nightmare, as I did not even know if my deposits would be stolen as well.

Since the related case of neymarjr recently got extremely out of control, proving that professional & unbiased handling & evaluation is impossible here on bitcointalk - unfortunately! - I am about to consult with people working in this industry on portals such as the GPWA & AGD and post some updates when I get them. It's going to be interesting to see reactions over there even though such portals are also somewhat "biased" (1xbet being a platinum affiliate partner, LOL) - good news is, the webmasters and industry professionals in the respective forums are not.

That would be great, I really appreciate it.

I don't know what actmyname believes but I believe that if you throw the book at someone you have to be sure about it and have proof to back it up. Particularly considering the dictatorial powers afforded by the T&Cs that don't even require to provide any specific reason for confiscating money.

In other words, the site can surely lean on the T&Cs the way the quote says, and look right and mighty without bothering to justify their actions, but it may erode their reputation if they keep doing this.

Absolutely, because I have no idea about why on the first place I was accussed of multiaccounting, without even  being provided with evidence, and then, they post an empty statement where "multiaccounting" is not even mentioned ??? ???

They keep on scamming and scamming.  On the forum, we can only warn others about this fraud organisation.
Luckily enough, the Curaçao Gaming Control Board is investigating matters, as they are also checking the EML from scambookmaker sportsbet.io

You either hacked or bought an account specifically to attack casinos and sportsbooks. Why? Don't pretend its because you "care about the community." You are typing from a hacked account.

If the matter is being investigated already by outside sources, why bother to continue to troll Sportsbet? Surely you should just be happy that Sportsbet will be paying its dues any day now and then continue on with whatever it is that you were doing before you suddenly popped in here out of nowhere.

This is the negative feedback he left for you:

"Definitely somebody who is working for sportsbet.io now. Is using shill accounts to oppose the flag that was created for sportsbet.io allegation. Is this allowed? Big chance that he is using shill accounts to fill their topic. "

This gosha@e-coin user is trying hard to make himself relevant by posting in the scam accusation section but is really a waste a space, hence he is added to my ignore and distrust list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5262427.0

Hi Saturent,

Please PM me when you get a chance.

regards,

Steve.
Sportsbet.io

Sounds correct to be honest...

what even is being stated by this E-gosh account is just not true. An absolute lie and disappointing. We work closely with whatever requests Curaçao Gaming Control Board have and Ive seen nothing come over my desk recently.
Its a shame the coin@gosh just wants to cause trouble instead of contribute to this BTC Talk community.

Steve.
Sportsbet.io

Done!

Hi saturent I was absdolutely not accusing you or trying to discredit anything. In my post I had quoted another thread you'll see, as it was mentioned in here. Was not trying to hi-jack the thread but the comment also applies here.

Quite honestly, there are so many sportsbet.io threads at the moment, it's going to be very easy for sportsbet just to turn a blind eye to most of these comments as the attention from the forum is being spread around multiple threads, rightly so though as there is many users complaining and it's only fair they each have their own thread.

I am all for the player, I hope all players who are complaining can win their cases and get their funds back. Hope sportsbet.io sort it for you and apologies if my post came across wrong.

Too many trash talkers in the forum, some of them are all about boosting their post count for signature campaign funds and others have their own agenda. I left appropriate feedback for this gosha@e-coin user a couple of days ago.

Accept my absolute apologies, I took it totally wrong.

Too much of a headache this issue has brought me that sometimes I have been above my limits.

I totally agree with you, actually I was not expecting any outcome from this rather than to share the nightmare I have experienced with Sportsbet.io for a whole week, and try to make them improve this awful costumer service they have given me.

I did my best to submit a well completed report with as much evidence as needed because I was expecting Sportsbet.io to turn a blind eye on me, as they did since the very beginning.

As you very well mentioned, there are several other reports against them on the forum being totally ignored.

Thank you for your inputs adam0991

I create a website dedicated for gambling. Outlined within the ToS are a few clauses that allow me to arbitrarily freeze player balances, all fit under one nice long section. One of them is based on if I have suspicion that they are using multiple accounts or money laundering. Another is simply, if at my discretion, I determine that you or your account is detrimental to the conduct of my business. I use this to freeze player balances when they win. When questioned, I respond that they violated the ToS by stating that they violated the section containing those clauses. I do not provide any evidence and then state, "we'll return the deposit though."

Fair, or not fair?

That is literally what is happening with Sportsbet.io.

Not fair at all.

Check out non custodial smart contract based sportsbooks, where the operator never has custody of the player's funds.

Only issue is they don't accept bitcoin, as they tend to be ethereum based. Degens.com is one such example.

Wrongdoing isn't necessarily the same thing as "not fair," but in my eyes, it is fair because the user agreed to those terms of service upon registration, and their deposit was returned so they didn't actually lose any money. It's an open market and the player has the choice to use other sportsbooks in the future. If players feel treated unfairly by Sportsbet then surely they will switch to their competitors, resulting in the loss of business for Sportsbet.

In this instance - as many of the sudden influx of others as of late - no wrongdoing was done by Sportsbet. If Sportsbet's terms of conditions are deemed to be "unfair," the free market will sort it out.

It is not fair since I did not violate any ToS and they do not even provide evidence to proof these accusations, not even a single specification/clarification besides several automated emails.

As far as I am concerned, they would allow me to lose as much money as I would be willing to deposit, but by the time of withdrawing some profits, then problems start, right? Where do you see the fairness here? I do not see any.

They are in their absolute right to shut my account when they have a "suspicion" of a breach on their ToS, I could agree on that.

However, the whole balance from the account should be returned to me since it was won legitimately, and having a "suspicion" does not mean that something wrong is actually happening.

I did not do anything, and no evidence is given to proof otherwise.

Returning the balance (whole) as it was when it was frozen, is the most fair thing I can think of.

And even more when I only had these tiny profits. We are not talking of several BTC on profits, we are talking about 0.021btc, which is ridiculous.

It is fair because you did violate their ToS by not violating anything.

They simply didn't like you.

That makes perfect sense to me as to be the main reason, since no better clarification has been given.

I want you to consider the two states of reality from before OP deposited to after OP was returned money.

Prior to deposit: No bets have been made. Balance is X.
After return: Bets have been made. Balance is X.

The fact that Sportsbet.io accepted bets means that they were willing to take the player's money in the case of a loss. Given that the player has instead won, the casino is now instead liable to pay up. Unfortunately, due to them using their arbitrary ToS, they are able to quote a clause that gives them absolute discretion and they are able to essentially nullify the player's wins.

Now imagine this. X:

I offer you a bet. If you win, I freeze your winnings and return your deposit. If you lose, I take your money. I cover details allowing me to arbitrarily freeze balances if I consider you a negative to my casino in a clause outlined within the ToS. You agreed to this. I can now act accordingly to everyone else who agrees to the ToS, because of course, contracts are all-encompassing and if you were too stupid to read it then you deserve to get scammed. Lol, what a bunch of newbie dimwit losers for me to take advantage of by documenting binding legal contracts. They can do nothing about it. That's because rules are rules, and if you accept it then you're vulnerable to every small part of the clauses.

And the nightmare for me was to be a whole week anxiously waiting for a resolution to knowing what would happen, mainly, to my deposit.

The uncertainty from the whole issue was horribly stressful.

Sent them many emails and no specific answer was ever given.

Instead, I received 3 automated replies, each every 24-48hours.
After these, I had to wait more than 4 days for another reply (the one stating the reimbursement of my deposits, the one I had been wishing to receive since the start. I went through a very bad week waiting for it... no F's about costumer care were ever given by Sportsbet.io).

Really bad experience.

The player apparently made at least 50 bets, some of which were wins and some of which were losses. So the net amount won is what he is claiming to be the "amount scammed." Of course I disagree with the word "scam" here because that implies a net monetary loss, which didn't happen no matter how you frame it. Its arguable that he was scammed out of his time or the money he could have been up by placing the same bets elsewhere (if that was an option).

In your scenario, you're describing a sportsbook that I simply wouldn't play at, but I don't think Sportsbet sees their decisions as "arbitrary." You see them as arbitrary.

This is what it looks like when Sportsbet is actually trying to dissuade players that cost them money, and not because they were violating Terms of Service:


Ty also has a great point about how most casinos/sportsbooks view multi-accounting:


Sportbet's behavior here is pretty standard in the industry. I had to forfeit casino winnings once because I forgot I had opened another account there years earlier, never activating the bonuses from either. But the casino put 2-and-2 together and used ToS as an excuse to take my winnings. I was pissed, but technically I did violate their ToS, so I accepted it and moved on.

Ultimately its up to the player to find a new casino/sportsbook if they feel they have been treated unfairly or wronged. I draw the line at using ToC to confiscate deposit balances, which is one of the main differences between a scam and non-scam bitcoin gambling operation, exchange, wallet service, etc.

Not that I think you forgot it was an option, but if you really feel strongly that Sportsbet is in the wrong then you should support whatever flags against them you think are most adequate.

tldr;

don't play at sportsbet.io if you are a winner.

you can play as much as you want if you are a loser.  ;D

I agree with this simply because the ToS clearly state what Sportsbet can do if they even suspect anything untoward going on. Does that allow them to misuse the ToS to steal funds? Well it allows the facility for them to do it but that does not mean they will do it.

If Sportsbet or any other casino mass-scam or selective-scam their users then surely people will walk away and allow the casino to slide in to obscurity. I just fail to see this as a scam by Sportsbet. What I see is them taking a strong stance against users they feel are trying to cheat them. Where they have made a real mess of things is by not freezing accounts of users as soon as they suspect them of cheating. By allowing those users to play and effectively lose funds is tantamount to morally indefensible conduct by Sportsbet if they then stop those users they suspect of cheating from withdrawing funds.

A user is effectively signing up of their own accord to ToS they were never forced to accept. If those users did not like the ToS offered or enforced by Sportsbet they should sign up to other casinos - simple.  They should review the ToS other casinos offer beefore signing up but will notice virtually all of them have identical clauses.

I'm describing Sportsbet.io.

Check the Terms and Conditions.


https://archive.is/veb99#selection-1367.0-1385.231

If I had lost my deposits, they would have allowed me to keep on playing more and more. Few seconds to register, deposit and play, but then more than a week to just recover my deposit. How does this even make any logical sense to you?

They always have the upperhand here. What would have happened if I had lost all my deposits? Surely they would have never frozen the account, I wouldnt have ever been accused of breaking the rules, and Sportsbet.io would have allowed me to keep on playing more.

It is not like the player can freeze from the casino what he has already lost when he suspects the casino is cheating/abusing him in some way, and then walk away.

Even if I lose it all, I accept it and move on. Why cant they accept that after winning a few bets legitimally, the profits from those belong to me? Where is the fairness?

And if they suspect I violated their ToS, where is the evidence? Not even a simple clarification has ever been given!

I don't see the word "arbitrary" there.


This is standard for most casinos and sportsbooks. Sportsbet is no different in this regard. It's not "fair," and it certainly benefits their business more than if they were to demand KYC from the getgo and check for multi-accounting before betting began, but good luck finding a sportsbook with competitive odds that doesn't do this, and let me know when you do find one.

I made a post about this earlier which captures why their ToS trumps everything a user might allege against Sportsbet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.msg54893685#msg54893685

1- Sportsbet state in their ToS:

12. BONUS RULES
12.1 General
12.1.1 Bonuses are available at our discretion and we reserve the right to restrict the availability of any bonus to any player at any time.
12.1.2 Fraudulent or multiple entries will not be accepted, neither will entries made in breach of these Standard Promotional Terms or the specific promotional terms.
12.1.3 Some of our Bonuses may be offered to you on a complimentary basis or when taking part and completing promotions through the website.
12.1.4 All promotions are not available to players using an e-wallet when depositing funds.
12.1.5 Players who are Self-Excluded are not eligible to receive any bonus. Players that Self-Exclude during the course of bonus qualification or after a Bonus Token has been placed but before any winnings (Cash or Bonus) were accumulated, will not be eligible to receive any winnings (whether as Cash or as a Bonus Token)
12.1.6 Only one Bonus offer per player, per household, per shared computer and shared IP address unless otherwise stated. We do not allow “Multiple Accounts”. Player account details will be determined by any or all combination of name, mailing address, email address, computer (serial), IP address, payment (deposit/withdrawal) method used and any other form of identification.
12.1.7 By accepting any of our bonuses, you agree to adhere to these Bonus Rules and any applicable rules made available to you before or when accepting a Bonus with us. You must also comply with our full Terms and Conditions at all times.
12.1.8 We reserve the right to withhold any Bonus, associated winnings whether from cash or bonus wagers if believed that the offer has been abused and/or where the terms of the offer are not fulfilled, or any irregular betting patterns are found including collusion, and this decision is final.

2- The rules are clearly stated in the footer of the Sportsbet website

3- By signing up to the Sportbet website, all users are confirming they agree to and will abide by the ToS that are clearly stated beforehand therefore all users are aware of which type of contract they are getting in to before they are signing up

4- The most important of these rules is 12.1.8 because it clearly states Sportbet have the right to effectively withhold any winnings or bonuses if they believe they have reason: "We reserve the right to withhold any Bonus, associated winnings whether from cash or bonus wagers if believed that the offer has been abused and/or where the terms of the offer are not fulfilled, or any irregular betting patterns are found including collusion, and this decision is final."

5- Sportsbet ToS do not state that in the event of them implementing clause 12.1.8 they are under any obligation to justify their findings to the suspected fraudster or to a third party such as various members of this forum. Sportsbet are also bound by European data protection laws as stated in their ToS (5.1 and 5.3):



5. CONFIDENTIALITY

5.1 We will take reasonable and appropriate measures to ensure that Your personal information as disclosed to Us shall remain confidential. We will not disclose Your personal data or betting information unless required to do so by any applicable laws and regulations, court order, the relevant gaming and law enforcement authorities or other than as set forth in these Terms and Conditions. It is also Your responsibility to keep Your personal information confidential.

5.3 We will process Your personal data in accordance with Data Protection Act 2018, General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) 2018, other relevant legislation and regulation and Our Privacy Policy.


6- The OP has claimed he is innocent. From what is seems on the surface the OP is saying that he is ready to comply with KYC and sent it to Sportsbet but they rejected it as 'failed'.

In my opinion the bottom line in this situation is this:

Sportsbet concluded beyond reasonable doubt the OP conducted in activity that breached their ToS and they are under no obligation to explain to anybody why they came to that conclusion. They also stated it was not as simple as it being based on multiple accounts from the same IP address. Furthermore they went on to state they will not state what their security protocols are as they will give an obvious advantage to those that try to defraud them.

All existing Sportsbet users and all future new sign ups have to accept their accounts could be frozen at any point without a fully explained justification and they could lose all their winnings but will probably get back their initial deposited funds providing they have not been spent. The OP has protested his innocence but that has not stopped Sportsbet from coming to the same conclusion that their ToS were breached.

==================

Having said all this, there are two main points of concern for me that Sportsbet and other betting websites implement on a wide scale:

1- I do not know why Sportsbet asked for KYC when they knew it would definitely not be enough. Even if the KYC is valid and even if they have a video call to ascertain identity of the user but he is linked with multiple accounts and breach of ToS then why would they ask for KYC?

2- Why do all these issues of multiple accounts come up after a user wins an amount or tries to withdraw - Sportsbet and other websites should have algorithms that start freezing accounts as soon as multiple accounts and breaches are detected because it means as long as users in breach of the ToS are depositing crypto and spending it losing on bets it remains a non-issue but as soon as a win or withdrawal takes place it triggers a breach of ToS

No worries, I do not need to find the "perfect" sportsbook, as there is none.

Nonetheless, I have seen many other casinos/bookers that accussed a player of multiaccounting and shut their account. But then, they reimbursed the WHOLE account balance as it was when the account was frozen, no exception. And not after one week.. mainly after 24h, only.

My sole mistake was to trust Sportsbet.io ethics. Nothing else.

Honestly, I do not even care about these bonuses.

Occasionally, I used one of those boosters on a small bet and only because it was popping up on my slip all the time, otherwise, I would not even bother.

Therefore, these ToS do not apply on my case at all.

"Perfect" sportsbook would be non custodial. Where the book never has possession of your funds.

Check Degens.com as it uses smart contracts that are audited. It's 100% KYC free. So there is no 'multi account' issues. And nobody at Degens can touch your money.

Centralized sportsbooks won't exist for long IMO. Non custodial, decentralized books fixes all the dozens of problems cited about sportbet etc.

Get lost.

spamming since earlier, probably a scammer.

pot calling the kettle black

Lol get out of my thread.

Who the hell are you?

Looks like you intentionally created this Use Your Brain account (and other accounts) to post a thread, discredit and attack the several complaints made against Sportsbet.io.

Are you getting paid by Sportsbet.io to do all this bs? Little man, you are disgusting.


I am not even Russian.


Saying that "we rushed to do many bets in a short time frame",.. have you ever bet on live events? You sound ridiculous and your accusations are just pathetic.

Insulting our English as well.. At least I can communicate very well while knowing and speaking more than 1 language. I am pretty sure you are limited to only English, you ignorant.

Use your brain and get out of here.

keep smileing 

Yeah, there are more and more players having issues with them, so eventually they will have to face it and its going to be negative for them (KARMA).

Go lick their ass, whoever you are you just show how pathetic Sportsbet.io can be as to make low lives like you attack whoever has a complaint against them.

Will just ignore you, you arent worth my time.

Keep "smile-ing" and get lost

They doesn't have to include it as there ToS is already very self defensive and trappy to anyone with geniune winnings on the site. It is selective scamming in a way and does not secure users interest if clear reasons are not shown to the customer or player after accusing them of something as empty as multiple accounting.

And, if seen overall even if any casino or sportsbook manages to accuse 5 out of 100 customer's for voliting multi accounting rule they are in all increasing there house edge in an indirect way.

---

Solid promotion ! :(

Are we surprised? No! Because Sportbet.io is really very scam project.

Here we go again with another newbie who seems to know everything about everything...  ::)

You are right that I am a beginner. but I never claimed that I knew everything.

Another intentionally created account to go after complaints against Sportsbet.io.

Get your facts together you ignorant.

You are a disgrace, pathetic clown.

We paid tons of money to fix table tennis matches to just getting a profit of 0.021btc, thats what you mean, right? Lol how stupid..

Surely hidding behind this account as you dont have the balls to use your main one because you know how ridiculous and stupid you would look.

You are very wrong on that nutildah.

The player takes a risk in placing the bet. From the moment the bet is won the money is his. So if he gets anything less returned than his deposits + his winnings it is indeed a loss.

It's like if you go to work for 10 days and then you don't get paid, because fuck you. Would you also say that's not a scam because technically you just worked and didn't lose any money? Your reasoning makes exactly 0 sense.

Can sportsbet.io just hurry up and resolve this?

Exactly, when the bet is made an agreement is closed btw the booker and the player, which implies that if the bet is lost, the booker takes the money, but if it isnt, the player recovers the money he previously put on risk + profits.

I am expecting to hearing from them during the weekend.

Not if he was never eligible to receive it in the first place. In that case the net winnings are zero. I already said it would be more ideal if the system flushed out multi-accounters before they placed their bets, but nobody does that.


This is an overly-simplified analogy that leaves out relevant details of both real and hypothetical situations.

We're just beating a dead horse here. There's nothing more to be said. What it comes down to is either taking the side of Sportsbet or the side of OP in choosing who you want to believe. Maybe Sportsbet will provide more input into the matter but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Until then I'm going to excuse myself from this conversation because its now quite boring but feel free to continue on if you must.

In short, you are elegible to deposit and lose, then no matter if ToS are being violated, however, once it is time to withdraw, alarms ring and everything is checked to the smallest detail.

Really reasonable.

Yeah but that's the issue. Because the implied contract starts when the player places the bet. Basically the casino has until the start of the game the bet is placed on to null the bet. After that it's set in stone.

Your point is relevant, but it's exactly what is wrong. Casinos decide wether the bet is ok or not based on the outcome of the bet. The input is already flawed.

I stand by my point.

Upon registration, it should be clearly stated that if any wrongdoing is suspected, it wont be mentioned until the player tries to withdraw.

Otherwise, the whole thing becomes decepive.

Let everything aside, would you play in a casino if you knew your winnings could be confiscated for whatever bullshit reason? I wouldn't.

Don't give me that it is written in their ToS. Nobody reads it. They should, but they don't. Accept this reality first. You don't read it neither.

According to my logic, no ToS should be above common sense. THAT shit makes no sense. None. Zip.

I never heard of a casino returning the initial deposits of a losing player btw. Never.

I agree.

Sadly, they only use to respond when those cases are exposed publicly.

Anyway, Im still waiting for new updates.

I agree with you, that is what can be done by Sportsbet and all other casinos because that is what their Terms and Conditions clearly state.

I have no idea how many times this would have been implemented either by Sportsbet or any other casino but what I do know is that even though you might be right when you state that the whole becomes deceptive when the funds are frozen at the point of withdrawal otherwise the casino is happy to allow the suspected wrongdoer to lose - there is a fundamental flaw in your argument. You signed up to their website and accepted their ToS.

In a nutshell, if I sign up to a casino and deposit 1 BTC then gamble via various games and find myself 1 or 2 BTC up, then try to withdraw but have my account frozen after having my initial 1 BTC deposit returned to me - then I have to accept it because as per the ToS that I willingly signed up to, that is what the casino can do. They are under no obligation to offer me any explanation about what suspected fraud or breach of ToS I was involved in.


 - My first advice is for those of you that conclude Sportsbet might be a bit tough on those suspected of fraud and breaching their ToS but believe Sportsbet are not scammers - you should consider carry on playing or signing up as a new player.

 - My second advice for those of you that conclude Sportsbet is a scam or might be a scam - stop playing there and advise your nearest and dearest to avoid playing there too.

 - My third advice for those of you that claim Sportsbet scammed them - you read the ToS (or at least should have) and you accepted them but still gambled there so you really do not have a case. Please find a casino to gamble at that you will be sure will not scam you.


What is definitely clear is that Sportsbet have (unfortunately for themselves) failed to engage with the community here in a manner that seemed both somewhat sympathetic to those that were making the allegations and also by addressing the points and concerns that highly respected forum members raised. Sportsbet might have lost the recent PR battle by engaging with the community in a below par manner but I am sure if they modify their approach most of the users in the forum will be satisfied with their response after they add a little human touch to their posts.

As for those making allegations against Sportsbet, if you were making an allegation against a casino with no track record or a new one or one that has been around a short time then the case might be that they were set up with the intention of selective scamming users until their exit scam and that would change the dimension of the case against the alleged scammers but Sportsbet have been around a few years and other than a recent flurry of claims made against them specifically in the crypto betting website they have an almost excellent track record.

All in all it is extremely hard to accept Sportsbet are selective scamming users, I refuse to accept that they are scammers based on the evidence I have seen in the scam accusations threads. They are turning over millions of USD$ every year and the idea them stealing from users is almost impossible to believe or accept it. The amounts involved in the cases are tiny so it probably means Sportsbet are heavily clamping down against those their algorithm flagged up as breaching their ToS regardless of the amounts involved but they always return the deposit - better than receiving nothing.

I sympathise with the handful of users making allegations of wrongdoing against Sportsbet that started several days ago but their ToS that alleged victims willingly accepted clearly trumps any allegation against them. If it is any consolation to the alleged victims, Sportsbet have not exactly covered themselves in glory in the recent days when allegations started surfacing and have a lot of work to do before some senior members start trusting them fully again.

Although I mostly do not disagree with you,  I believe you will agree on that when not even a simple clarification is given (not proof, just some specific clarification), the whole issue becomes heavily negative and frustrating for the player.

Absolutely yes I agree with you. That is partly why I said Sportsbet have lost the PR battle in this forum. They have not handled things in the best way.

Thank you for empathizing JollyGood.

Actually, if they only improved their handling on costumer care, there would not be all this mess around.

I was told by Steve that a new update could come up during the weekend, will see what they have to say.

*customer care

And thats your contribution to the whole thread?   :o

LOL

I wish I could help you to get this resolved. I'm really feeling for you, and I've been saying it from day 1.

They have full anonymity and only reputation to rely on and yet they get so much "respect" from too many Bitcoin Talk members here which makes it even more suspicious where is the real integrity of Bitcoin Talk? (I'd love it if an admin could get involved with these unscrupulous practices).

Regarding your very own problem why haven't you created a flag until now?
Please create one.

The first poster (neymarjr) got his issue resolved only after a flag was created. It's time every accuser will follow suit and let the integrity of this forum to hopefully win or express its genuine verdict.

I supported neymarjr12's flag just after registering on the forum.

Also, I am currently waiting for a new update from Sportsbet.io, I believe that to creating a flag is not a "must" yet.

By the time I see their latest updates, it will be more clear whether the flag is necessary.

To be fair, I was not even willing to start this thread, and before I posted it, I had already sent several PMs to Steve trying to get a better assistance than the one I was receiving.

Sadly, I did not even receive a single specification from him so, the last resource was to exposing my case on the forum.

That's obvious that what they do is really shady and if people do not expose it sharing their cases publicly, shit will keep on happening.

Hi Steve,

Any update...?

Kindly, let me know

Hi Saturent,

I have sent you the email to your account inbox.

Unfortunately, we are not able to refund the remaining amount, so the initial refund of your full deposit was 427mbtc which has already been returned.

regards,

Steve.
Sportsbet.io

Well, after sending several more PMs, finally I have been answered, although is nothing new.

They will not refund anything and also will not give any clarification about the whole issue.

On the baseless statement given on this topic by Sportsbet.io, no multiaccounting was even mentioned, but now they keep on giving me the same excuse.

I would appreciate if someone could instruct me on how to create a flag against Sportsbet.io, please.

Thank you very much.

1. Go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;addflag=832366

2. Check the 2nd radio box:
https://i.imgur.com/qzreGIy.png

3. Click next

4. Give the appropriate info in the marked area (link will be these thread)
https://i.imgur.com/bmb4hoZ.png

5. Hit confirm.

Unfortunately there are nothing much to talk. I am sorry it's ending up like this.

You are not even giving me a clarification about the whole issue, and it is the main point I have been requesting from the start.

It is a shame that on Thursday you tried to create false expectations on me, saying on your PM:

"I'm going to speak to my bosses about this case again to see if they are still happy with the decision they made.
They might want to change it, they may not.. but i will get some more information out of them about the case."

At least I expected that you would clarify "something", but what a disappointment.

Now it is clear that you only reached out trying to slow the growing public interest that it was having at the time.

Also, the simple fact of saying "happy about it" makes me believe the whole thing is a joke for you, pure random harrassment.

The excuse that you are giving, about multiaccounting and therefore, ToS being violated, is baseless, no proof and clarification has ever been given.

Must point out to you that you never raised any flags while I was depositing and wagering, never. Why didn't you freeze the account before depositing? Why do you only raise flags upon withdrawing?

You are ilegally seizing my profits without even giving evidence proving your allegations and I consider it devastating as it is clearly a scam.

Give me back my legitimate funds, you can't be taking money from players who lose and then, when luck comes around, winning some bets and then, placing a withdraw, avoid paying the profits.

Thats outragerous.

Thank you, I'll create the flag right away.

I had positive expectations from the start.

I even sent them some PMs trying to reach an amicable resolution before feeling forced to create this thread.

I thought this people would have some ethics and would realize that what they did was completely wrong.

But no, scammers are always scammers.

Your flag will be supported (at least by me) - it's crazy really. I don't get what happened to those guys, they are now even pissing me off in the German subboards because I am not supporting their actions, lol, and raising awareness - yeah, that's not gonna work.

Thank you, I'll post the flag right head.

Meanwhile, this is the screenshot of the PM I got last thursday:

https://imgur.com/a/rr7HNog

And this the one I got a few moments ago:

https://imgur.com/a/EZ9EE0D

I find everything very deceptive.

Here is the flag:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2203

Please, support the flag, we need to stop this fraud together, and the first measure is taking action.

Thanks!

Hi Saturent,

are you please able to answer the most recent email i sent to you with the multi-accounting (again) accusations?

If you are not able to provide a fair, decent and honest response to this, I have one more to send.

If that is still not able to be answered truthfully, we would kindly ask that you remove the incorrectly placed flag that you have added today..

Thanks for your honesty in advance..

regards,

Steve.

Quote for reference

https://i.imgur.com/koslwVr.jpg

http://archive.md/Ldusu

This account is a fraud.. LOL


Created to attack complaints against sportsbet.io..

Support my flag and create another, this must stop.

Most probably I will create my own thread tomorrow.
I am tired of them 45+ days kept me waiting saying Payout will be made soon.... and now after 45 days they have vanished and stopped replying to emails.

You are a SCAM.

There are zero links to my KYC that your "evidence" can proof.

Stop your bullshit, you will fall eventually.

I dont care if you dont refund my money.

YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.

As it stands right now I will be unable to support the flag based on the evidence seen so far in this thread.

Also, as it stands right now I cannot oppose the flag either, again based on the evidence seen so far in this thread.

My best stance on this until something changes is to remain neutral.


-------
@saturent - in your own words and in a nutshell, what exactly are Sportsbet saying to you in private about the full reasons you will not be getting paid what you feel you are woed. According to the OP, you wrote "AMOUNT REFUNDED: 427 mBTC" and "AMOUNT SCAMMED: 21 mBTC".

Going by what you wrote, it seems highly unlikely Sportsbet would scam 21mBTC after returning 427 mBTC but stranger things have happened so I am going to keep an open mind about this though in my most humble of opinions it really is highly unlikely they are scamming or selective scamming. Anything is possible I suppose.

I think Sportsbet or any other business/casino cannot divulge information here openly in the forum otherwise they will be in breach of various data protection and GDPR rules but there is absolutely nothing stopping you from posting any information to strengthen your case. Is the only thing Sportsbet saying that you deposited BTC from a wallet/address that was used for deposits from other users? Which means at least 3 users including yourself sent money to Sportsbet using the same BTC wallet/address? Is that correct?

Once you post back and state the reasons Sportsbet gave you for seizing 21mBTC could you please also state in the post that you have no objection to Sportsbet confirming or denying the reasons you stated - that way we can try to get to the bottom of what is going on.
-------


-------
@Sportsbet.io - if we follow a rule that you as a business cannot divulge lots of information regarding a user because of the various data protection and GDPR rules you might breach, could you please wait for the OP who is making the allegation (saturent) to post here to my request for simple clarification about what he says are the reasons Sportsbet told him he will not be paid 21mBTC and after that could you kindly confirm if what he says is correct?

21mBTC is such a tiny amount to be accused of scamming. It seems as I mentioned before in other posts, this seems to be about Sportsbet taking a strong stance against those they accuse of breaching their ToS rather than be about selective scamming.
-------


Once we all understand exactly what the root cause of this specific issue is then we can make up our minds about whether to support or oppose the flag.

The number of complaints being made against Sportsbet by mostly newbies, mostly for relatively small amounts of BTC means senior members of the community do have a responsibility to investigate the matter then come to a decision about what they think is going on.

Support bans player who has been on SB since 2016.

https://i.postimg.cc/RZL7Bd3D/Screenshot-20200811-000427-Chrome.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/y8HmttNR/Screenshot-20200811-000444-Chrome.jpg

Bitcointalkers...you know parrot lines?? This kiddy support was copy pasting texts and when I found they banned me.

Why did you delete your comment, shall we share it for everyone to read?

Oh dear, oh dear.

saturent, admitting to multi accounting right there. I suggest those who supported his flag have a rethink once they see that evidence.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2203

Saturent,

I'm joining LFC_Bitcoin here and I've removed my support for the flag.

I say it and I've been saying it before - I'm all up for doing the right thing in this community, and I'd like to ask you to kindly explain this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266630.msg54934126#msg54934126

And this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266626.msg54970973#msg54970973

Please provide a credible explanation to these issues raised by ahctpacer - if I cannot see a credible/satisfying information then I cannot support your flag.

I also have removed my support for the flag, judging by your response which you deleted it seems pretty clear to me that your excuse is that you share a wallet with your partner.

Whether or not that is true, you should see sportsbet.io’s side of this and agree that you have got your deposit back and learn from this to not share a wallet with a partner who has another account as the evidence linking you will be very clear.

Luckily for you it was not an extremely expensive lesson.

I am also sorry to hear that your friend is experiencing a gambling problem and you report that sportsbet.io appear to be abusing this, also reported from other posts on this forum (which for a reason have disappeared), it’s clear that they do not take this seriously and I hope your friend and other forum members can get the help they need.

Thanks for sharing this - even based on that, many things in this case still aren't being handled correctly (my 2 cents) but yeah - this is multi-accounting and while I also still feel that bookmakers use that rule to their advantage (don't care as long as the ppl are losing), I still have to withdraw my flag support for now.

I agree SportsBet.io in some way are being a PITA (=pain in the ***) with this multi account thing, but if these are the types of users they deal with ... well, if I were them I wouldn't be sure if I wouldn't do the same things - in the past before we installed a fingerprint system, we had in our site a group of scammers speaking "english berry good, I think admin getpaid berry good" created like 20 accounts and completed the same surveys repeatedly - these were $4 - $8 surveys, high paying ones - we suspended all their accounts because we didn't want the issue to repeat itself.

If we had let them or one of them get paid and realize they can keep on "coming back for more" we would have jeopardized our business relationship with the advertiser - so whilst I agree that maybe some other sites might be lenient and this one seems to be more strict - I think this is up to the site itself to decide how to handle it so long as they have the evidence and now we all got the evidence we were looking for...

I do appreciate what was revealed here anyway and would wait for the OP to explain this or else I would for the first time actually mark my vote - an opposition for a flag created against Sportsbet.io

It does not look good for the OP but we should allow him ample time to at least respond to the multi-account questions being put forward. He also should at least post a reply to to what I asked him earlier: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266626.msg54970851#msg54970851

Actually, they didn't admit anything:
And, they said they both went trough KYC:
So, according to OP, one customer is cheater and one has only one account. Tricky situation for sportsbet, maybe there is rule in ToS which says "it is allowed to have only one account per household"?

---

I don't really understand this:
Totally new account like "new account" or "another new account"?

editing again because I am so damn curious about this.

https://i.imgur.com/XdSf0ZD.png

@OP, is any of these accounts yours or they are all created by your partner?

Could be business partner, dance partner, undomesticated sex partner... don't stereotype sir marlboroza.


It sounded to me like the OP was trying to pin all those accounts on the "partner", what with all the self-exclusion bullshit.

---

Since the gambling sites are getting into the habit of not providing any evidence of their claims, I'm gonna use Bitcointalk sockpuppet linking as a guideline here. Blockchain evidence (same wallet) - most likely alts. Betting on table tennis - not alts. Betting and winning - not alts.

This is saturent.

All what has been posted is absolute bullshit and my account has been compromised ever since, password and email changed.

This thread has lost any credible value since then, I wonder who has done this to me and why, what would be the motive... it is clear.

Absolute shame, everything has been reported to the admins.

Soon you will be banned for ever from bitcointalk, dont even doubt it

What a coincidence that you NEVER posted here before right LFC_Bitcoin?

Dont lie an admit that ahctpacer is one if your altaccounts, as well as Use_Your_Brain

They pay you regularly and as pathetic as you have shown to be, you are even capable of doing all this ridiculous moves.

Maybe it is even you who has stolen my account? Who knows right?  ???

ähm where does he admit multi accounting?

he actually (or she) says his account is fully KYCed. And also says his partner does have an account and might have been multi accounting.

If that person is also able to KYC then this would easily prove his point. That's what KYC is for right? Prove you are 2 different persons using 2 different accounts, and afaik it's the only way to actually prove it.

But white knight LFC knows better.

I also have a question. Let's take this the other way around.

You lose a few bets, and you admit and prove you are multi accounting. Would SP null the bets and repay full deposit too?
If not there is a logic flaw here.

They more or less confirmed they were using the same wallet didn't they? This is where sportsbet can (once again) refer to their ToS I guess... You just shouldn't do this since bookies then ALWAYS use this to their advantage claiming you were multi-accounting - that's the same with FIAT bookies. I am getting your point though and that is why I wanted to hear back from Saturent. Anyway, what is going on with all those accounts being hacked and manipulated lately guys? That's some scary shit.

Reference: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266626.msg54970973#msg54970973



This is obvious that SB has full right to close the account.

Flag support already lifted and tag removed.

@Stever buddy, can you not make these things easier for us please? I do not think it would be much if would just say that your security team detected the deposit came from same wallet, in worse case you could just share us the blockchain evidences.

I know that you've more or less just been trolling here, but this is actually a good idea for somebody to try as an experiment. What would be more impressive is if you found a bitcoin bookmaker that had a different policy than SB.


If the player agreed to it then I would think its OK to share blockchain evidence.

I did not mean now after the player admitted it, I meant before all these dramas. It would be nice when a scam accusation arrives then Steve come up with all his weapons to protect his brand without hiding much. That will make our lives easier.

In this particular case if Steve would come up with those blockchain evidences in the first place then we would not have 9 pages of discussions.

This does not mean trolling, fact is this is a valid point. So, let's not blame each others and make things dirty. We are better than this.

You can't change the past, but certainly they should consider this a learning experience.


It's not a valid point because no sportsbook does this, and no casino does it, so singling out one business for not doing it is lame. Should they do it? Probably. But its just part of standard business practice for the industry to not do it. If somebody is going to accuse SB of acting inappropriately then by extension they are accusing pretty much every single other bitcoin casino operation in existence of the same thing.

(not including dice sites for which there is no way to increase an advantage over the house edge by having multiple accounts).

---

Edit so as to not create a pointless back-and-forth discussion after the situation has already been resolved:


Obviously it doesn't say that.

If you truly believe the sportsbook or the industry in general is acting inappropriately, you should open your thread about it and let's discuss it there.

Lol. Reasoning at it's finest.

Nobody does it so it's not valid. If you are thinking like this change is impossible. I thought you were smarter (I'll allow myself to say this since you started with under the belt posts).

So no it's not trolling.

Please show me where in the T&Cs it's written that a bet can be nulled for violation only if that bet is won, and not if it's lost. I'm very very very impatient to see that.

So I take this allegation against Sportsbet is unfounded.

Just as the other allegations against Sportsbet have been virtually unfounded, this is another one that got far too much exposure than it deserved.

It seems the OP was using the same address to send BTC to Sportsbet that was used for another account therefore was in breach of Sportsbet ToS.

In this instance it is very clear Sportsbet were well within their rights to ban the user accounts for multi-accounting even if 2 different KYC were provided simply because a single BTC address was used.

There is a high probability that Sportsbet would have kept quiet and took no action if the OP had lost funds and kept losing them but took action after he won or tried to withdraw won funds BUT there is no proof that would have happened. When a user accepts ToS for using Sportsbet or any other betting website, they play by the rules or they will be banned.

Conclusion #1: Sportsbet acted well within their ToS that the OP willing signed up to do therefore Sportsbet did nothing wrong
Conclusion #2: Never use the same IP address, never use the same device to place bets and never use the same BTC address to send/withdraw funds when using Sportsbet otherwise you will be in breach of their ToS

Totally seconded, and I would have merited you for this post, but since you've been such an s in the GameProtect/GetPaid thread I would just say I agree with the above, and these are good conclusions (if I were a new user I'd be careful because of Conclusion #2 and maybe SportsBet.io should make things a bit clear in that regards so a genuine user who's 100% genuine won't get stuck with a similar drama like we had in this thread).

Liar

Your post was made 05:57:56 PM
Your password changed 6:46:23 PM

I understand you slipped and compromised your entire operation, but what exactly prompted Boris007 sudden outburst? These two events happened coincidentally one after the other. You guys know each other?

saturent saturent2 saturent7 saturent01 saturent09 saturent99  ::)

And to think the OP did all this for just 21 mBTC which at the time was around 200€ even though Sportsbet had already returned their original deposit of 427 mBTC.

I have no idea why the OP played this game with forum members and with Sportsbet.

Table tennis partner?
Perhaps on some rare occasions where casino decide to go trough accounts of all customers but usually it is withdraw button which triggers fraud team, who knows...

I still stand by "if you accepted bet, pay what you own and then block account(s) if you want to".

---

Looks like another alt of X-Men Cyclops (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266626.msg54970720#msg54970720). What's that with all these "circumstantial accusations" lately?  ::)

http://archive.md/Ldusu#selection-8421.0-8428.0 for the post, https://bpip.org/Profile?p=saturent for the password.

---

I thought it was going to be another case of 'multi account' accusations, with the only provided evidence being words. I question, though, how Sportsbet allowed 4 accounts to register and be detected as multi accounts. You would think after the first, never mind the second and third, that you could catch them as they deposit or after they create their account.

You are right marlboroza.

That is the thing that rings true. How many times have we heard about casinos freezing accounts of all associated multiple accounts before sums were deposited or just when accounts were created and sums deposited?

I commend Sportsbet for returning deposits to those that breached its ToS and I equally commend them for taking a strong against those that won on their website by breaching their ToS even if tiny amounts were involved because it is a matter of principle.

The only thing I see they have gone wrong in is when they clearly do not clamp down on multiple accounts until one of those multiple accounts tries to withdraw or wins and that clearly in unacceptable because it means Sportsbet can and will keep those funds without notifying the multiple account operators they have been caught - they seem to wait until the multiple account operators win before declaring a breach of ToS.

@Sportsbet - is there any chance you could ask the people making decisions at Sportsbet if they could look in to this please? If implemented it will put all future similar allegations against Sportsbet to rest.

I disagree. If you place a bet knowing you are operating outside of the TOS, you forfeit all right to any winnings. Personally I feel anyone caught multi-accounting and breaking the TOS that gets back their deposit or bets is lucky.
Banning these abusers and returning funds, really just encourages them to give it another try. For that reason as well I don't think these businesses should be providing any extra information regarding their processes. They are either a trusted site or they aren't. This doesn't mean they shouldn't respond to complaints but people need to either believe them or not based on what they provide and act accordingly. 

They do so because they see an opening. Probably not entirely related to the fact that there was trial run at forum members performing binding arbitration, but could be why it's so heavily weighted to sportsbet. So if you are a multi-accounting scammer, why wouldn't you take a hail mary that doesn't cost you anything but a few minutes time, and barring undeniable evidence gives you a shot recouping fraudulent funds.

It's pretty rare someone goes "Oh well, you got me. I'll go away"

Unless casino has some solid proofs (or confession) that someone broke their ToS it is "our word against yours". Don't just rule out false positive results of investigations, seizing funds based on suspicion etc.
There is one bookie who become highly untrusted because they never gave information about how they caught cheaters and most accusations and seized funds came from multiaccounting and breaking ToS. If you take a look at this scam accusation https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2160655 you will notice that it is equally the same thing which happened with sportsbet recently, only difference is that sportsbet responded to accusation literally not providing any information and 1xbit didn't respond, at least not in public.

Here is another scam accusation https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5267433.msg54967870#msg54967870 which reminded me of this case, player is accused of multiaccounting and accuser said "they sent funds from casino to friend and friend made deposit to the same casino". This is exactly the same thing which happened in this scam accusation.

Why is it OK for one site to do this and when another one does the same thing they are scamming their customers? Either both are scam or non of them is scam.

As has been mentioned, ultimately what it comes down to in situations where all we have to rely upon is the word of the parties involved in a dispute, is whether you believe the word of the casino or of the player.

I think that who is making the accusation carries big weight on this forum, as it should. If a reputable member who is known to be a pretty heavy gambler reports having been scammed, their word is going to carry more weight than 5-10 newbies. That's not to say established accounts never lie or newbies always do lie, but its a decent rule of thumb to assign greater credibility to established accounts.

Also, in the case of 1xbit, the owners (1xCorp N.V.) have something of a reputation for unethical conduct among the highest levels of business.

https://europeangaming.eu/portal/latest-news/2019/09/11/53961/liverpool-and-chelsea-cancel-agreement-with-1xbet/

https://www.igamingbusiness.com/news/1xbet-hit-400k-dutch-fine-over-unlicensed-activities

As far as I know, Sportsbet doesn't have such high-level accusations against it and is in relatively good standing with the regulators. Corruption spreads in a top-down manner, meaning 1xbit is simply likely to be more seedy based on the fact that they have a track record of putting profits ahead of ethics at the highest level.

Furthermore, I would say the net bulk of unresolved complaints scattered across the web is far greater for 1xbit/1xbet than Sportsbet, but it really depends on what kind of metrics you're going by...

So that is why I am more likely to give Sportsbet the benefit of the doubt than 1xbit. Others can disagree, and that's fine -- I am open to their reasoning. It would be boring if everybody thought alike.

Should it though?

For you it's ok that a user gets treated differently based on the time he spends on an internet forum?

Speaks highly of you...

I agree with this in some extent. Of course if something happens to a reputable user, you will assume he is telling the truth. But take it the other way. IF the casino is indeed rigging it's "KYC" process to it's advantage, it will certainly react differently towards a regarded member since his accusation would damage their reputation far more.

So what you are saying sound dangerous to me, and totally crazy in terms of customer relation.

I like the way you articulated this point. When a precedent had been set about allowing forum users to act as arbitrators then it regardless of the outcome being in favour of the casino or the user - it would open the floodgates for others to ask for copycat treatment.

Still, the amount claimed by the OP is just 21mBTC, it is a tiny amount yet he went through the whole drama of playing the victim and accusing Sportsbet of cheating him just to try to get that money. It is a really silly thing to do in my opinion, just does not make sense. Maybe the OP hoped Sportsbet would give in and pay what was being claimed in order to avoid negative publicity but they did something that the OP did not expect.

Sportsbet dug their heels in and stood their ground against those breaching their ToS and did it as a matter of principle regardless of what allegations of BTC amount were being made against them.

If users to do not like the ToS offered by Sportsbet they should simply find a casino or sports betting website that offers them better ToS or those that the users prefer.

Well, I start reading those accusations few days ago and this is what I noticed:


From bitcointalk:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266815.msg54944917#msg54944917
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5267433.0 -> multi-accounting
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5267919.0 -> multi-accounting (sorry S, I am putting all scam accusations together with response/lack of response from casino)


From askgamblers:

UNRESOVLED

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/responsable-gambling -> player asked casino to block their account because they have gambling problems and casino asked for their documents which player refused to provide.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-scam -> casino asked player to send them documents, seems like player did twice but has never seen funds.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/can-not-withdraw-account-verification-anormally-long -> player is accused of multi-accounting and...hm...someone else placed bets.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/2nd-verification-from-1xbet -> casino asked player to send documents, player did and waited for 2 weeks. It is not known what happened after.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/blocked-account-and-request-to-deliver-some-documents-to-russia -> player was asked to send documents which player did. It is not known what happened after.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/account-closed-for-250usd -> no response from casino, it is not know what happened here.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/delayed-verification-withdrawal-blocked-account-balance-13000eur -> player was asked for KYC and 9 days later casino told them their documents are being verified. There was no response from casino and it is unknown what happened with funds.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-account-and-funds-blocked-no-further-assistance -> multi-accounting

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-closed-my-account-and-delayed-deposit-refund -> multi-accounting

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-having-troubles-with-usd7-000-withdrawal -> player withdraw funds, received 2 psvouchers and they said vouchers are invalid. Casino denied this and they told player vouchers were good and they have to contact "payment system" about it which seems player refused to do.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/payment-approved-but-i-never-received-it -> player requested payment to bank account, 7 days after player said they didn't receive money. It is not known what happened after.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/delayed-payment-of-rs-9996-claiming-it-was-processed-however-it-was-not -> player didn't receive payment but casino said they did and asked them to confirm or deny this. Player said they didn't and it is not known what happened with funds after that.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-withdraw-not-receive -> Lol, this one is funny:
According to casino, player tried to withdraw funds to different bank card, they asked documents and...it is not known what happened with that nor funds.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-no-player-protection-delaying-tactics-and-promised-refunds-not-yet-effected -> seems like player lost money and then asked casino to block account and return funds.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-refusing-to-pay-won-t-say-why -> Multi-accounting

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-ridiculous-verification-process-following-withdrawal-request-of-eur21-000 -> casino never replied, it is not known what happened here.

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-absurd-requirements-to-close-my-account -> player asked casino to close account and they were asked to provide documents



REJECTED

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-cannot-login-to-request-a-withdrawal -> multi-accounting

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/16800usd-in-my-account-and-verification-is-being-delayed -> player was asked to go trough KYC, while waiting player gambled away all funds

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/no-whitdraw -> player was asked to provide documents but they didn't deliver

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/account-blocked-with-usd-1-590 -> player was asked to send documents to casino but seems they didn't

https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-still-haven-t-processed-my-payment -> multi-accounting


To sum it: 17 unresolved, 5 rejected and 40 resolved complains.

4 unresolved and 2 rejected accusations are for multi-accounting
3 unresolved accusation are because casino didn't close account
8 unresolved accusations will remain mystery
1 unresolved accusation which was updated a year after first complain
1 unresolved accusation about some vouchers

There is one interesting accusation for $80,000 (https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-refusing-to-verify-my-account-and-pay-usd80-000-winnings) which is resolved and also includes something about invalid vouchers, just like that unresolved accusation from above, thus, many accusations have never been updated.

Take a note that sportsbet is relatively new site (if I am not wrong, 4 years old) while 1xbet is 13 years old site and I didn't check whether some of these accusations are posted in more than 1 place.

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Seems they lost license because they offered betting on children's sport and cockfighting. While I have no idea what is children's sport, cockfighting is unethical depending on country, it is legal in some countries. Do they have license now? (I can't access site)
This?
This indeed is unethical behavior by casino, would you imagine that, they allowed people from restricted country to bet!  /s


Me trying to register on sportsbet:
https://i.imgur.com/PV1eAdk.png
...but, they restrict access for only few countries despite the fact the list is much larger than USA, Netherlands, UK and few other countries they mention in their ToS.

Me trying to register on roobet from the same IP:
https://i.imgur.com/xJeL3DA.png
No restrictions, everyone is free to use site. Unethical?

Like last time and the time before it, you overlooked many of my words to draw erroneous conclusions about what I was saying; perhaps that explains it.


This is a lot of work you did, and I admittedly didn't bother to look into a comparison of AskGamblers totals for both sportsbooks. If you are using this as a metric, then obviously Sportsbet comes out favorably here, as they only have 4 complaints, 3 of which were resolved.


They apparently have a Curacao gaming license but lost the license required to operate in the U.K.


My point was they knew something was blatantly illegal and they did it anyway for the sake of making money. This is the type of mindset that guides their operation from top to bottom, which is why a number of casino review sites have them "blacklisted".

I am not using number of complains as a metric, what I am using is accusations which are rejected when they are about sportsbet and taken for granted when it is another bookie in question.

Not really, they are "blacklisted" because of scam accusations they have, those links you posted are recent events. They have unresolved accusations for amounts small as ~$100 (https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/delayed-payment-of-rs-9996-claiming-it-was-processed-however-it-was-not) or $200 (https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/winnings-canceled-and-initial-deposit-still-not-returned) while at the same time they have some resolved accusations for amounts big as $80,000 (https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-refusing-to-verify-my-account-and-pay-usd80-000-winnings), €99500 (https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-validation-of-huge-deposit-takes-forever), $116000 (https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/1xbet-casino-withdrawal-of-eur116-000-blocked-and-verification-never-ending). Makes no sense.

Would you please tell roobet to stop accepting users from restricted countries because it is illegal to do so?

I apologize to sportbet.io officials for this message. I made a mistake entirely out of carelessness. I haven't visited their platform even once. This is the first time I've heard company names here

Then again AskGamblers seems like they are refusing some complaints against SP, like Neymar's.

I'm not rushing to conclusions on why, but it's a fact.

Oh please. This is a low blow and completely off-topic to this discussion.

Well, you said something about ethics and legality and linked article, I wasn't the one who moved things in that direction but ok, I guess it is for another topic, anyway, I just don't think it is good argument because we are discussing scam accusation, evidences and we should stick to this, what I want to say is that most accusations against every bookie is almost for the same things, while some casinos are tagged and many forum members just go with "yeah, they are scam, look at feedbacks" or they just link each and every possible scam accusation they can find (example, casino (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=307265) is tagged and flagged:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5186509.0 -> multi accounts, IP detection, the same device etc
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1454521.0 -> casino allowed player to bet over bet limit and took funds later, rule is hidden somewhere within ToS
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5184263.0 -> My mom gambled (likely multi account))

...in some other (the same) cases users just go with "it's in their ToS", "they sponsor someone, they are rich, they can't scam someone for 100$", "they are trusted therefore they don't scam", "lol, another Russian noob cheater". And when few users open scam accusation and it turns out that they indeed are cheaters and some shills start going in each scam accusation to troll accusers they create very bad environment and stereotype "whoever opens scam accusation is automatically cheater and they defraud site", like casino is always 100% right and they can't make mistakes. Well, that is simple not true.

Is it time for all casinos to be scrutinised and to be held to account?

Until that day comes there is nothing anybody can do except agree to ToS and let the casinos become judge. jury and executioner while they freeze accounts of those breaching their ToS.

It is all stacked up in favour of the casino but at the end of the day there is a difference between those casinos that are seizing all funds and freezing accounts and those casinos that return deposits but do not allow for funds won by breaching the ToS to be paid. In that scenario it does not sound like a scam to be honest.

Seems that if you win too much you can also break their ToS:

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If we take arbitrage betting for example, it is almost impossible to prove it but if casino takes your winning under suspicion that you are arbitraging, you will get your deposit back but you will lose that other bet on the other site and lose money. And, if you are not arbitraging, just damn lucky and casino seize your winning and refund you your deposit just because they suspect something, you can't say that you didn't lose your money, your winning belongs to you. It is something to discuss in some other topic I guess.

I am out of this topic.

this is really very disappointing i thought sportsbet.io was a big name but it turns out to be scam talks we are dealing with here its a big surprise for me why their reputation is still clean after this story and unfortunately i find many of their accusations on the internet

I got scammed by them too. They ask for KYC then still keep your account locked. It's completely a disgusting website. I am very suprised that bitcointalk hasn't banned this scammers yet

That is how the site works.
THey have much influence on the forum. The bitcointalk forum is full of corruption. There are many DT members who are on the payroll from Sportsbet.io
On the moment somebody wants to activate a yellow or red card, they send some DT members to oppose the card. That way, nobody dares to touch them.
I made some objective statements about them, and now their dogs already gave me 2 negative trust.
My advice is to stay away on Sportsbet since they will scam you when they have the chance.

Actually it is quite shocking how many open cases there are against this sportsbook. Why should people trust this bookmaker? Recently there was also a 8800$ scam claim against them.
Yes, you can write something about Adkinsbet but that is not relevant here. What is relevant, is how they are able to take money from customers without action being taken.

This list is big indeed.

You know what they say, google is your best friend. If you want to google the scam about this company, then you do not have to feel bored with reading  ;)

It really astonishing hat there are so many open cases against them.

I don't know why you raised this thread again, honestly speaking @Verial isn't gave any evidence with his accusation... all of his statement is only a words.

I just feel like this user is an alt from someone or want to accuse sportsbet.io because he only woke up to post this, after that he's inactive again.

Woke up on 2/12/2021 4:16:21 PM
Post on February 12, 2021, 04:18:52 PM
Last active on February 12, 2021, 04:25:25 PM

Don't bother much of these users. The last 6 posts (starting from ronaldo40 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5266626.msg56101562#msg56101562)) should be considered as spams. These shill accounts are butthurt because their employer or maybe them themselves were caught redhanded to scam the community. You have see them defending Adkinsbet.

Feek free ti read this topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5316904.0

Last Active:   August 10, 2020, 07:10:30 PM - this is OP's last active date. The thread shouldn't be bumped if the accuser isn't even going to do anything about it.

And... this is the last activate date of the person gadado decides to respond to: February 12, 2021, 04:25:25 PM. These aren't replies that are meant to facilitate a meaningful discussion.

What has that to be done with the accusation? If there are accusations, then sites must resolve this on a professional way.
I still did not receive an answer to my satisfactory about a solution.

Hi,

As mentioned in the thread, the decision is final.. please have the respect to read up all the information before posting flimsy posts.

Your late arrival and disrespect to the forum are noted by a lot of senior members.

Many happy returns,

Steve
Sportsbet.io

I really think that people need to be warned about this scam company.

And you are another of one of the group of liars who are defending their scam site. Thanks for making this comment which helped me to find you.

I won't sell my moral cheap at least not for only $7 LOL

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How many of you all think this is a very familiar style. Keep posting on opponent threads after logging in. game-protect used to do the same!
https://archive.vn/wip/737Lc

Between 08:21:26 (https://archive.vn/737Lc#selection-1467.6-1467.41) to 08:31:08 (https://archive.vn/737Lc#selection-627.4-627.13).

In about 10 minutes he has 12 posts and all against his competitions. More than one posts a minute.

This is definitely game-protect. Who is disagreeing with me?