Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin user is making bitcoin complicated for a newbie
I discover that bitcoin is becoming more and more complicated not because it is really hard to understand
but instead those who are not new in bitcoin are making it complicated. (Even Myself  ;D)
as I think a little bit deeper I realized it and plan to change my approach to the newbie as a self-reflection.
I want to learn more how can i make bitcoin newbie friendly as simplest as possible.

Example:

If a newbie asks what is a good wallet to use?
Bitcoin User will answer the hardware wallet which is not free. Yes it is safest but not a newbie-friendly

Instead of a web wallet that is free and easy to use. Every wallet has its own flaws in order to secure your bitcoin you have to learn how to use it and make it secure.

If a newbie asks how to earn bitcoin?
Bitcoin user will say Signature campaign which is also not newbie friendly because you cant join the signature campaign now if you are a newbie.until they discover the altcoin campaign where they can join but will be disappointed sooner or later because of not getting paid and leave bitcoin and tell that it is a scam.

Instead, teach them one of the basic ways to earn bitcoin which is micro earning where they can earn small amount of bitcoin like faucets for them to test bitcoin

If a newbie asks what good thing about bitcoin? anonymity?
Bitcoin user wants to teach about one the good thing about bitcoin which is anonymity but for a newbie point of view, it will also make confusion because if im the newbie why do I need to become anonymous if im not planning to do bad things.

instead, teach them the basic about bitcoin which is a payment method where they can use online or they can do a person to person transaction

I won't agree with you. Old users want to tech perfect things about bitcoin, so the new user will not regret it in the future. If someone asks you about a bitcoin wallet then you should suggest a good wallet as a senior bitcoin user, web wallet wouldn't safe ever and newbies would regret when they will face many problems like KYC and account block. Even they can't buy a hardware wallet they should use a noncustodial wallet and no cost for it. If you don't suggest a hardware wallet then how newbies will no that it is such as an option to keep safer your bitcoin.

Regarding earnings, everyone earing from a different way, so they will suggest as same. Also, they should know regarding anonymity, either they follow it or not. I can't see anything wrong here.

And completely insecure. And it teaches the newbie to trust an anonymous stranger with their coins, which is the exact opposite of what bitcoin was designed to do. There's a reason a lot of people recommend hardware wallets, and that's because they are a good balance of security and ease of use for newbies. If you teach a newbie to use a web wallet, who is then phished or hacked and loses all their coins, then there is no faster way to turn them away from bitcoin.

Faucets are pointless. You will spend hours filling in captchas to earn a few cents worth of bitcoin. We shouldn't be telling newbies to join signature campaigns either, and every time I see someone recommend a brand new account a signature campaign I cringe.

Bitcoin is money. You can acquire bitcoin the same way you acquire any type of money. Get a job and earn it, sell a good or service for it, or exchange another type of money for it.

I'll agree with you here. We should be teaching newbies that bitcoin is money, to be used for payments and trades, and not just to be hoarded. Bitcoin isn't anonymous, anyway.

[General] Bitcoin Wallets - Which, what, why? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1631151.0)
Custodial vs. Non Custodial Wallets - "Not your keys, not your coin" Explained. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5173370.0)
[Guide] Hardware wallets - which one is a good choice? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4578719.0)
Wallet summary (not mine) (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aZ1zbaUEzCo9NCctN8-eL2VLIiSdY009tTJvRXDUWEw/edit#gid=0)

Web wallets are unsafe. I use Electrum because of its lightweight on my computer and after install or open it I can use it immediately.

This is not true, not all the users show the hard way for the newbies... Maybe some of them do it but not all of them. And the newbies should search the information by themselves that be there waiting for someone to answer their doubts.

Is the newbie's responsibility to learn the bitcoin basics, and not our responsibility to teach them how it works.

I really don't think so! In reality, internet is full with super easy guides available for free of cost. Anyone who is willing to learn about bitcoin, can make use of these guides and articles. I personally have learned bitcoin in a Similar way back in 2015 when such resources were very limited.

There are mainly two types of learners available in this market. One who wishes to learn about the technology and other who wishes to make money. The problem is with this second group. Lack of patience usually ruins their learning capabilities. We are not making things complicated!

If you encourage newbie to choose random web wallet without knowing the security and do proper research, that newbies will fell to scam web wallet (e.g. freewallet). Electrum is the best wallet for newbie-friendly and safe.

Faucet is useless you need to read this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=825370.msg9220285#msg9220285

Be a freelancer or find a job in real life is better than sit in front your PC and completing captcha every 60 seconds.

Even though you use bitcoin for a good things (e.g. fundraising for charity) that doesn't mean people will not do bad things to you. If they know what's your name, where your location and which address you use... they can simply do $5 wrench attack. Be careful about your privacy and it's not anonymous but pseudonymous.

https://i.ibb.co/WW9wHBp/CIL1j-Ou-XAAA-4o-J.png (https://imgbb.com/)

You gotta explain to people how Bitcoin is better than banks, because simply being an online payment method for p2p transactions is not enough, companies like PayPal and Venmo and countless others have been offering it for years, and with simpler user experience. Privacy is a perfectly valid point, these days people are paying for VPN and are installing anti-tracking addons, so there's nothing negative about that.

If a person just wants to use Bitcoin, then there's no need to dive into the issues of how Blockchain works and stuff like that. As for wallets, buying it when you're just getting to know Bitcoin doesn't make sense, but Electrum is a fine wallet which is free to use and quite safe. Apart from this, a newbie should be informed about scams and how to stay protected as well as common mistakes like making the fee too low or sending BTC to an LTC address or something like this. Regarding anonymity, it's important to point out that Bitcoin does not guarantee full anonymity and was never meant to guarantee it. And speaking of whether Bitcoin is good or bad, I'd say it's neutral itself, but can be used for various purposes (just like other forms of money).

i get that you think you are simplifying things but in reality you are replacing good advice with bad advice. for example the worst one in my experience is telling a newbie to use a web wallet, specially the custodial ones such as coinbase. if they were to use these types then they shouldn't even use bitcoin in first place.
you see when someone with more experience is giving advice to newbies, they are giving good advice even if at first sight it looks to be more complicated.

In regards to anonymity/privacy, it's  necessary to let them know that it's one of the important features of Bitcoin, so they don't become careless like many people are on regular internet. It's a very important feature that makes Bitcoin network secure, just like decentralization, transparency, immutablity, censorship resistant, permissionless/trustlessness, deflation etc. They should be gradually taught these things, for the good of the network.

Bitcoin isn't easy to understand and it all depends on what the person is trying to accomplish.  If they are simply looking to purchase something using bitcoin then setting up a Coinbase account/wallet would be fine.  If they are actually trying to learn about bitcoin and how it works, as well as use proper practices, then they need to learn things like how to use a hardware wallet ( which is NOT difficult to use) as well as the fact that bitcoin is NOT anonymous. 

I simply can't agree with your findings here at all.  I think you're off base with how you're trying to approach these things.  Stop being lazy is my answer to much of this. Educate yourself so that you know how to do things properly.

I've never seen anyone say "keep your Bitcoin on Coinbase." But keeping it on web wallets or app wallets isn't bad advice. The newbie isn't going to be likely doing enough to concern themselves with the increased security of a hardware wallet. Obviously they are more secure, but its about ease s security. Most new users would be fine with that.

I agree with the OP, there is a problem in the Bitcoin community with onboarding new users (one of the only good places I've seen this is r/BitcoinBeginners). The average person doesn't want to hear about overtly technical stuff, or long discussions about anonymity and security. They want to know the basics of Bitcoin, they want to know why they should get involved, and the very basic approach to do that.

This is entirely dependent on who you ask.

Most of the time, veterans and old users here in the forum are pretty straightforward in giving answers that a newbie seeks for and really needs. Most suggests alternatives that are really useful, and not some shilled services for their own benefit. Perhaps I'm being biased around here, knowing that I've been here for 6 years, but point still stands: we simplify things for the newbs in order for them to get a footing and not get their minds confused and not the other way around that you're trying to say.

Also, there are tons of guides for newbies here in this forum, and even in bitcoin.org which is the main website one must check if they are pretty new to the community. I just don't see any problem in here, or perhaps I haven't encountered one that you're saying yet.

I don't necessarily agree with bitcoin be viewed as only money. I find little reason to not view it as gold and where hoarding it does make sense. Both uses as a store of value as well as money are very possible.

for the newbie,they dont need to be afaid in kyc and  I don't think the account block will happen as long as they don't do fraud.
in my opinion all wallet is not safe it just depend how you use it

But in my own perspective Newbie is not someone who have a lot of coin. they are someone who is just starting in bitcoin and want to try it
and if ever they plan to invest on it i think they will do and make they own research.

if I'm a newbie and just starting to learn bitcoin i will ask dollar instead if i do online job or sell goods and service.what i saying in faucet is for them to test it first as of now no one will send you bitcoin just to try it and if I'm the newbie who is not sure about bitcoin i will not also buy it.

all wallet is not really safe https://cointelegraph.com/news/binance-may-know-who-is-behind-the-1-400-btc-electrum-wallet-hack
its all depend how you use the wallet

well we cant say that it is our responsibility to teach them because we are the one who know more about bitcoin
its their responsibility to learn bitcoin if they want to use it i just want newbie to learn bitcoin in simplest way

in my opinion web wallet is safe depend how you use it
i use blockchain for a few years but never experience any problem

as i earn more i also see that faucet is useless but if i look more on it. when i still doing faucet way back on the past few years at that time it is also useless it take a month or more for me to earn some bitcoin which is only a few hundred dollars but i keep doing it because it is free and i have the idea that it will worth it someday instead or watching or reading something in social media while discovering more about bitcoin but if you look at the price of what i earn in faucet in a few months before its more than ten thousand of dollar today.

in my opinion bitcoin is not totally anonymous and decentralized it depends how you use it
and if you will teach it to newbie it will make it more complicated
only those who want to take advantage about it will be interested

if your using hard wallet it its good for you because you have some bitcoin to store
but what I'm talking about is newbies point of view
newbies is those people who is starting to learn bitcoin why do they need hardware wallet as if they have bitcoin to store
in my opinion almost all the newbies is only having a small amount of bitcoin some of the don't have any
they just want to test it, make transaction , withdraw some or buy small amount.

LOL of course people will suggest the safest one coz they are just a newbie, and also that would depend on the question if they want a free or paid wallet. Not newbie-friendly? how come is a hardware wallet is not a newbie-friendly?


That also depends on the question, if the newbie asks a way to gain bitcoin here in the forum then people will suggests joining a campaign, social media campaigns accepts newbie account. And faucets, people are suggesting this since then.

It's part of bitcoin to be pseudonymous and not anonymous, and as for a newbie they should already know that basic definition of bitcoin.
If you're a newbie and asks why do you need to be anonymous online, I'll just ignore you.

Not only on several sites but also there are Youtube videos which are really not that complicated or complex for a noob to understand rather than explaining verbally yet you can introduce them to see those videos and
it is much more understable imho.

In my years in crypto when someone do ask me out then i do just give out some video links that do explain the basic stuff and so far those people who have asked on me did really able to understand
and now they are already engaging themselves here on crypto space.

It doesnt really need for it to be complicated because its just normal for people to reject it once they do saw its hard to understand.

It is not making bitcoin complicated if we are suggesting a hardware when a newbie asks for a good wallet. Yes, it's not free because it's security is better than the web wallets. We are telling the truth about hardware wallets because they are even better.

You forgot that there were several hacks that happened with web wallets and newbies became a victim of phishing links copying those web wallets. They are newbie and they are prone to that and as part of security measures, hardware wallets are better.

Fair enough, I haven't hung around bitcointalk much (obviously, judging from my accounts age), but I'm just basing this on the community at large. Twitter? That's toxic, especially for new people. Just look at the JK Rowling tweet and response, no one was actually taking her seriously, or were offering very outlandish metaphors (Not to say that Rowling isn't an idiot to begin with). Now yes, that was a celebrity, and a shitty one at that, but I see it all too often. Also see it on Reddit too. People think they're being helpful, but end up sounding snobbish.

As I said though, I'm too new around these particular parts to offer an opinion about here though :)

It's naturally best to recommend what is best to use when being asked tbh. Besides that, when someone asks questions, there are a lot of answers which yes, mostly are hardware wallets, but some also introduce exchange wallets or online wallets, though it may get buried in the numerous amount of posts. Up to the OP to actually find them though.

Faucets are a waste of time, teaching them to others seems like a stupid decision. Faucets take more than 1 year for you to actually earn anything substantial as well as more than that for you to actually withdraw them, so how can they even test it out? Signature campaigns on the other hand, require time but is rather easier though tbh, it's better for them to know about it themselves, as well as to know that to earn BTC, the best way would be to buy them in an online exchange.

This is killing the essence of what Bitcoin is though? Why would you avoid one of its features because someone can't understand it? There's nothing to avoid in introducing BTC as anonymous, and if they misunderstood, then that's their problem imo. If they asked why and how anonymity would help, then that's good, but if not, then that's that.

Yes, nothing is safe, BUT remember that on online wallets, when the system gets hacked, YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING. You "THINK" you have control over your funds, but no, you're technically leaving it to someones hands and just getting it from them when you need it. If that someone get's robbed (Online hack), can you do something about it? No, because it's not YOU that holds the wallet, it's that someone. On the other hand, with hardware wallets, it's YOU that's holding the coins, if they ever rob you, you can do something about it.

Why not teach them both, the problem here is that there is always a "Make Your Choice" moments, we could teach them both the advantages and disadvantages of both wallets for example and let them decide what to choose from, yes, there will be regrets but it is up to the newbie if they are willing to continue forward or not.

Different people answer other people's questions about Bitcoin differently. And different people asking about Bitcoin take other people's answers differently as well. To claim that we are making it complicated to say this and that may not be entirely accurate. It can be complicated for some, but it can also be a life-saver for others, especially when they get an answer or explanation that teaches them a secure option, such as a hardware wallet. I think a better way to put it is to mention both the basic and the complicated aspect of each information you are sharing. For instance, if someone asks you what the safest wallet is, invest a little more time to show at least three options and their pros and cons.     

maybe if you don't want to teach you can also do the easiest thing is to ask for an explanation that is more likely to hit the forum according to the country. because usually what is crucial like this the explanation from the country forum is more understandable and trustworthy.

trying to come up with an explanation is a good thing to do, or at least trying it out for yourself at a small face value and being able to figure out which one is the best.

Pointing new Bitcoin users to faucets from day 1 is a completely wrong approach.The newbies will waste their time earning a few hundred satoshis,which is nothing.
I can't agree about the other assumptions in your post.I've never promoted hardware wallets to Bitcoin newbies.If you are a Bitcoin newbie and you don't plan to buy lots of Bitcoin,having a hardware wallet is pointless.
Bitcoin newbies usually don't care about BTC anonymity,they just want to make some money,but making money online is not easy.It doesn't matter if it's in the crypto world or the fiat digital world.
Misleading a newbie into thinking that making money with Bitcoin/cryptocurrencies is easier than all the other online money making methods is completely wrong.

Honestly, ease of use is almost always taken into account when someone answers questions about wallets here... That's just my view of course. But if security comes in question, then of course it's also good to make mention of hardware wallets. Newbies need to at least know their options before they can decide.

To try and get first experience, they can use $10 to buy their first bitcoin. There are many exchanges, platforms to buy first bitcoin.

https://www.bestchange.com/ (many payment methods and exchanges with rates are available and filter for you to choose best exchanges)
Help: A list of LocalBitcoin alternatives (P2P marketplaces) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5224711.0)
[BIG LIST] Buy/Sell Crypto (OTC, P2P, DEXs, CEXs, NO-KYC, ATMs, etc.) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5270416.0)
P2P marketplaces and Bitcoin ATMs can give newbies convenience.

The Gold marketplace with Digital gold (https://gold.storage/en/market) (backed by physical gold in vault) can help you to sell or convert your BTC to ETH or GOLD token.

If newbie want to trade on the forum, please being careful with newbies and notice on their trust score, trust feedback and some data on their profiles. Password changed / Woke up recently. Good signals to know potential scammers (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5204739.0). Woke-up or hacked accounts should not be trusted.

Newbies are really confused when they are asking in btt forum but there are still some replies and answers that is worth to spend reading and newbies are wise enough to choose which will be the best choice to pick for their own sake.
 And yeah, I somehow agree that most of the time, members are just complicating things.
 They should always learn the basic ones at first, from earning here in cryptocurrency space to basic trading and simple and secured crypto wallets.
 
 Though I believe newbies are wise enough today. There are tons of article or even such threads here in forum community that they can read  and explore. If they are eager to learn, they'll gonna make it to understand even into most complex ones.

you got a good point on there but this applies to some but not to others because me to be honest  i dont explain btc or a crypto just like on your first example because that is already for advance users  . a newbie must learn from the verry begining  .  i do recomend them an online wallet , the most popular in our country and this wallet already gone thru several updates making it easier to understand for newcomers . i also recomend them faucet to earn for the first time , not this forum because of how rules changed here and its now strict on here to level up an account .

I'm a newby so I think I can give my opinion based on my personal experience. And yes! Bitcoin is extremely complicated for a newby, a friend of mine who knows I'm invested in Bitcoin was interested on it and I had to warn him that he'll have to spend hours selftraining and cross a long process to join.

I agree that on the internet we have all the needed information. But you have to search, to analyze, to filter the trash from the real good stuff. There's a lot of both. Finally you can understand what it is and where you are entering... But it is complicated. Your time must be invested.

I disagree that bitcoin is just another coin. For me, as a newby, it is not. It's just an asset like gold. What can I buy with bitcoins that I couldn't buy with euros? Nothing. Yeah, I know that now I could buy porn. Well, that's not enough, frankly. Maybe on a near future will be just another coin, but today it is not, nobody uses it. Sorry, it's the way it is.

Anonimity, blockchain, etc. I don't care!! Same as I don't care about the chemical structure of gold. You can invest on gold without knowing its unique physical properties, or how many tons of gold are there on earth...

Bitcoin is complicated and delicated because it's dangerous. A lot of scammer and charlatans hounding. It's like swimming in a pool of sharks. Careful with the wallets!, what do you download and where!, exchanges legit!, etc.

It would ease the process to improve the user interface and security. Something like having a centralized (taboo word I know) organization on bitcoin that could certify APP's, or Exchanges or transactions or whatever. For instance, some of the first things I did was checking on bitcoin.org. Good or bad it was for me the reference point where I got my wallet (hardware wallet) and my exchange. Anything out of this "certifyed" institution would be a visible risk for new users. Something like buying by internet where you can know if the vendor website is a trusted company by... whoever

Everyone has a smartphone nowadays, when they ask you what Bitcoin wallet to use, tell them to use MYCELIUM, it is available for Android and Apple phones.
I vouch for Mycelium but if you know of a better/safer smartphone wallet app, advise them to use that.

Just tell them to make a backup of the wallet and keep it in a safe place just in case they lose their phone.

They don't have to earn Bitcoin, they can always buy Bitcoin with their fiat money for testing, investing, or transactional purposes.

Web wallets are easy to access by those hackers so it is really risky to use them. I settled with using hardware wallets because it is much safer for me and much worth it to store my asset there. I'm comfortable in using it and if I lost my bitcoin with my hardware wallet, it is completely my fault that's why we should always be careful and mindful with it.


It is not that bad to ask and seek help to those people who are more knowledgeable and experienced here in this forum.

But i'm hoping that in every newbie and every knowledge that they acquire, they should also share it to other newbies like them to prevent having a repeated questions.

Some newbies are really easy to trust someone because they think that it will help really help them accomplish or achieve something. Most of that scamming scenarios happened to those newbies who think that someone will help them earn profit when in reality they will just get their money. Anonymity and privacy should be always prioritize and kept in mind so that you will not have a hard time losing your money instantly. Newbies are suffering when they engaged with these fake schemes that can fool their account out. If you're a newbie and you want to become aware with this situations, try to visit "Beginners & Help"

You are continuing to give out bad advice.

Everyone should be afraid of KYC every time you have to complete it. You are sending everything required to completely steal your identity over the internet to an anonymous bunch of strangers. Identity theft can do more damage to you than someone emptying your bank account, and you can be left with life long implications, poor credit, debt, even criminal charges.

Saying "all wallets are not safe" is equally poor advice. Sure, there is no such thing as a 100% secure wallet, but that does not make the security of an encrypted airgapped cold storage wallet equal to that of a third party custodial web wallet.

There is a big difference between making things simple and oversimplifying things so much as to be dangerous.

Hi!
I think I understand the point ... but it is easier to start doing it than to start saying it, that is, have execution, how many new users can he say "he helped me" and by him I understand bitcoin.
Don't expect others to do things according to your criteria, you just need to know that you are doing it right.

We as individuals must seek good information and know who really helps us and who doesn't.

This is an Forum where most are adults  and we cannot be a kindergarten school. Individually we must do our part to learn what we do not know.

GB
______
Please, it's good to use the "!!" rule in a title like that. / this is not a grammar school, but in this case it is necessary.  ;)

The reason why it seems complicated to explain to a newbie is that you might not understand how much knowledge the individual knows about bitcoin. From experience, most newbies are interested in a bitcoin wallet, how to trade (include buying with fiat) and where to store them. This is the reason I prefer suggesting a more simpler ways rather than some complex answers. For instance, I will never suggest a DEX wallet for a newbie but rather CEX so incase in carelessly forget information about the wallet, he/she could easily retrieved it. As time past by, they will understand some other types of wallet and their usage. But first, they only need to start make use of the basic one.

A good analogy is learning to ride a bike as a kid. Did you start with training wheels? Well start new Bitcoin users with training wheels. When they learn how to "ride," they'll start seeing the other important stuff.   

this is strange, because in my opinion when a person enters the investment world that person is obliged to do a lot of research on the investment that he wants to make, and in this a lot of research the person will find hundreds of explanations that some may be difficult and others easy that in the end the person will end up understanding how bitcoin works, today there is youtube that despite being full of people who only post videos to gain views there are still people who post good content and easy to understand

that's good advice for beginners because they don't understand about bitcoin further so they will ask people who first played bitcoin or use bitcoin so they can understand bitcoin more broadly and be careful in choosing a wallet or converting shares in bitcoin because if they It's their fault that they lose their assets and their money so they have to choose a wallet that is strong or that no one else can hack

Your strategies are too much effort to implement. If you had 5 people asking you about what BTC was then you'd spend ~20 mins per person explaining the same thing, and the way you said you might just show them how to make small money via faucets etc is only going to cost you your time for probably not much in return.

I have no problem with you doing that from the goodness of your heart, I'm just saying it isn't practical on the long run or something others would consider taking on.

The best way to learn about BTC or anything in general is to have enough curiosity and if that's lacking then there's little you can do to help other learn something they're vaguely interested in. Like the old saying ' where there's a will there's a way'.

And if you ask me what I'd say to people who come to me asking about advice regarding crypto I'd most likely guide them to online resources where they can learn and take away the messages they care about, if they wish so.

Also, this way there's no throwing around the blame that if it wasn't for you I would have still had my x amount of money type conversation.

The only problem these days is with people who jumps in into bitcoin because of the potential money they can gain from it, I'm pretty sure most of newbies in here only heard about it because of what happen in 2017 and because of the bitcoin's price, when in fact they don't know a single thing about it, not even how it really works. This problem has been there for like years now, we are getting the same question every week. It is very strange how people be coming here without anything on their mind. Read and read, and read!

  If some of you guys isn't fond of reading, you can visit youtube for video visuals which is more easier than reading texts in article or blogs.
There is a study says that watching tutorial videos is more effective for 70% of people in the world, and it is pretty accessible because of the internet.

I understand what you feel and you've been disappointed. But the reality is that crypto investment will no longer be a newbie-friendly. Why old users emphasize only the best one because they don't want to lead newcomers to be in trouble and much disappointing to see. They already have a bad experience in the past and they don't want others to experience the same. Maybe it is wrong of not telling why because we also need to know the consequences.

if we need to secure our funds and saves us from becoming a victim to scamming and lose control of our funds, better to listen to old users.

I think you are misunderstanding Bitcoin users who are giving advice to newbies. They don't make Bitcoin complicated,
but the fact is that the world of Bitcoin is complicated, not as easy as imagined. Lots of newbies are victims of scammers,
if you don't follow Bitcoin users advice. Trust me Bitcoin users from the start only want to provide the best for newbies,
didn't intend making Bitcoin become complicated.

beginners do not understand bitcoin they are likely to be tricked if they do not study bitcoin seriously.
before plunging into the world of crypto for beginners to learn bitcoin properly.

There are pretty good resources on how to get started in Bitcoin in the web, and its pretty detailed with lots of information for a newbie to understand quick and easy. I started from there myself. Even youtube has lots of Crypto influencer that guides newbie step by step, you can even find local tutorials from your country in Youtube. I understand information much quickly to a video and verbally, maybe newbies could do it as well.

This OP is rather twisted, and not what a regular user of bitcoin will tell a newbie.


As others have said so well, a web wallet is not what a new user should be using.  The first thing to teach is always: "Not your keys, not your coins" ... If you aren't holding your coins, you risk losing them.


Also poor advice, and not what a regular user of bitcoin would say.  Any regular job is better than a signature campaign.



"anonymous if im not planning to do bad things."

This was the worst line in the OP, since it is what is usually spoken by those that wish to promote subjugation, or autocracy.   As we can currently see spreading around the world, it is better to avoid such paths.  This is the opposite of the whole point of bitcoin.



This was the only sane point in the OP.

Or, maybe, the OP was just so poor so as to rile people to post a response, and it wasn't meant to be serious.

There are beginners who want to learn about Bitcoin and skip some basics. Because they want to go fast to trade on global or P2P exchanges. I confess that this happened to me in my first experience with Bitcoin.
Fortunately, as I am self-taught, I have managed my bitcoins and cryptocurrencies safely.
Ideally, they can continue learning every day so that they can use the safest methods to store their bitcoins.

I think you could spare them some explanation.

Yes it is not newbie-friendly, but you could answer their answers, right? What is wrong with that? Some of us, maybe most of us here even learned what is Bitcoin and how to use it by themselves proving if you really wanted to use it, you could learn as you go. I guess what should be taught to these newbies is how they would earn it. Local exchanges here in our country is easy to use, I know it would not be their bitcoins since you are not holding any private keys but they could start by converting their fiat into cryptocurrency.

What I'm most interested in is why you, as the author, used the pronoun "you" and not "we". So you don't identify with the crypto community? Or are everyone around you fools, but you are the only smart one? Or why?

Great idea. I suggest you start with yourself. How do you suggest implementing this in the best way?

I usually try to stay away from most threads like this one... I mean, everything that needed to be said WAS said...
However, when scanning trough the 3 pages, i also saw people giving horrible advice (sure, most of the time they were contradicted, but still...). On multiple occasions i was tempted to start contradicting several posts made by several members. Instead, i opted to give my view on the situation...

It doesn't matter if you go to an automobile forum, a forum dedicated to antique collectors or a technology forum dedicated to bitcoin... You'll always have newbies asking questions, you'll always have people giving really bad advice, you'll have people that are so techology-focussed and (let's be honest) a little bit elitist that'll give good (but very complicated) advice and you'll have relatively knowledgeable people that try to give newbie-focussed advice.
Bitcointalk is no exception... Does that mean this is bad? Not per sé, it's just human nature. Some people are friendly, some are asshats, some are a bit snobby...

It looks to me like you've never used a hardware wallet before... I mean, my first hardware wallet was a ledger HW.1. This was just a piece of plastic with a chip on it, it had no screen or nothing, but if you read leger's documentation even a newbie could easily use it. And it's not like that documentation was in the form of a book, it was just a couple of pages you needed to get trough.
Since then, the most popular wallet vendors (ledger and trezor) have made great strides towards user-friendlyness. It's gotten to the point i usually use electrum together with my hardware wallet since their official gui's have become so newbie-friendly some of the wallet features i use are no longer supported (coin controll for example, but to be honest, they did not remove that feature, it was just never there to begin with... To keep things "newbie-friendly" from the start).
Sure, they're not free, but come on, a trezor one costs 59€. If you're serious about investing in crypto, that shouldn't be to much.

But even if it is to much (to expensive that is), pointing newbies towards ANY web wallet is just setting them up for dissapointment later on. I think it's better to point them to a newbie-friendly,desktop desktop wallet. Sure, there'll be a learning curve, but hey, they have to learn some day. If you point newbies towards (unsafe) webwallets, you'll end up with senior members blurting out things like "blockchain's wallet is safe... I've used it for years and didn't get scammed"... Offcourse, they don't get scammed untill the point where they DO get scammed. Really... Browse the forum... Just count the number of threads where users have lost funds due to web wallets.
Sure, desktop wallets can have flaws aswell, but atleast the power and controll was in YOUR hands, not in the hands of some unknown entity you just decided to trust.

By the way, it's also a misconception that a hardware wallet is the safest wallet... I mean, you could go for an airgapped non-HD wallet generated by the latest version of bitcoin core? Or maybe a properly generated paper wallet?
Even a hardware wallet sometimes has attack vectors... Usually they do require physical access to the device itself, and usually a patch is found for those attack vectors. And one weak spot is the recovery seed (unless you used an extra passphrase you haven't written down).

yeah, but no... Do you really think a newbie will stick around after they've spend a whole week, 8 hours a day to make barely enough sat's to reach the minimum withdrawal limit, and even risk getting scammed by the faucet operator?
If a newbie asks how to get their hands on btc, my answer usually goes to the direction of telling them to either sell their goods/services for bitcoin, or (if they don't have any marketable goods/online skills that are in demand in the bitcoin community) get an IRL job and convert part of their wage into BTC. I mean, in most developed countries you'll make $10/hour just by flipping burgers... That's a hell of a lot more than you'll ever make with those faucets or PTC thingies...

I've got some bad news for you... Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous, not anonymous... It's never been anonymous, it wasn't made for complete anonimity.

Ah, and i see you've drawn Joseph Goebbels's privacy argument in the mix... Always a nice toutch...
source (unconfirmed, but commonly accepted): https://metro.co.uk/2015/11/05/a-tory-mp-might-have-quoted-goebbels-in-defence-of-the-governments-surveillance-bill-5481457/


If you want anonimity, switch to a high-anonimity coin, but even then you'd have to be carefull about what you do...

Rudeness is toxic for the community so some of you stop being mean  ;D
We have different knowledge, comprehension, understanding, and point of view let not only think of ourself
I'm here to learn more and to know your opinion
i want to know how to make bitcoin as simplest as possible at the same time safe
some of you have some good point I will keep that in mind
let us have a healthy discussion

Obviously, some old users are making bitcoin complicated  to newbie, thinking bitcoin is easy to understand.
While some that have interest to join the discussion,are afraid because, the way some old user  are teaching new ones wrongly,thinking they're teaching them rightly.

Well, I've re-read most of the thread, and i haven't seen real rudeness to be honest. People (myself included) do get a little bit annoyed when people start giving their "opinions" on things that are basically facts. It's even worse when you see people with a certain level of authority (Rank) making unjust claims and potentially lead newbies to bad decisions.

Basically, if i'd ask you witch color is nicer and you say you like "blue" the best, it would be rude of me if i started to criticize you because i personally think "yellow" is a better color.
But if we were discussing the shape of the earth, and person A says: "it's perfectly round", person B says "it's allmost perfectly round, but there are some mountains and underwater trenches and person C says: "the earth is flat", I think it's perfectly fine to tell person C he is wrong and he should keep his "opinion" to himself... If nobody would tell person C he is wrong, and he needs to go away, we end up with a flat earth movement...

If i'd enter a forum for small kids, gain some reputation, and start making claims like: "it's perfectly fine to run with scissors, please take candy from a strange man and follow him to his van, eat glue and you'll grow up faster,..." I hope other reputed members would step in and tell the kids that: "no, it's not ok to run with scissors", "never talk to strangers", "don't eat glue".
Would it be rude of them? Sure, but in the meantime they do it to protect the kids... If nobody would step up and tell them I'm spreading false info, who knows, maybe they would hurt themselfs.

Same here... IF you push newbies towards claiming from faucets and holding their "earnings" in a web wallet, and don't worry because they're 100% anonymous if they do so... A big portion of them will get hurt sooner or later.

• they'll spend days claiming from faucets earning nothing, and get scammed by a large portion of the faucet owners in the meantime
• they'll lose access to their blockchain account
• they'll fall victim to phising
• blockchain will eventually close shop, and they'll lose their funds
• they'll be victims of malware
• they'll get de-anonimised and beccome victims of a $ wrench attack

So, you might consider people rude for speaking up, but they're basically protecting those newbies you hold so dear... Maybe not in the nicest way, but i'd rather have someone rude that protects me, than someone super-nice that sets me up to get scammed in the long-run .

I'm pretty sure no one has meant for their advice in the topic so far to come across as rude.

My take regarding web-wallets, the best way to think of it is in terms of compromise.  If you only want convenience and you're willing to rely on third parties, the trade off is likely going to be the control and security you would otherwise have.  Maybe convenience is all that you're concerned with.  So if you're comfortable handing over possession of your funds to a person or company on the internet, in effect a stranger you're never likely to meet, that's your call.  It would, however, be careless of us not to mention the inherent dangers of that.  We've seen examples of people losing their money doing that.  But, in fairness, we've also seen people lose funds by not correctly securing a wallet they control themselves.  There's potential risk either way.  But at least if it's a wallet you control, you can take responsibility for it.

As for faucets, there was a time in the past where it was worth doing those, but I suspect you're a few years too late now.  I recall when you could get 2000 or even sometimes 5000 satoshi each hour from each different faucet, but those days are long gone and you'd only get a tiny fraction of that nowadays.  In terms of effort versus reward, they're simply not worth your time.  There are definitely better ways to earn money, but they almost certainly involve your time, effort, skill, resourcefulness, entrepreneurial instincts or a combination of those things.  In effect, you need to figure out what you're good at and then find a way to monetise it.  You might not make a lot of money, but I can't see how you'd make less than you would from faucets now.

Yeah, there are basic things that newbies can understand and I have also watched informative videos before and it helps a lot and I also think that it's great for newbies. But at some point, they will think bitcoin as something complicated because the more you dig for information, the deeper it gets. So for me, complicated and deep information is part of it when you're really interested in bitcoin and want to learn more. I mean, you can't just learn the simplest information and stop there.

The words of yours are undoubtedly fits properly.Besides,The talk members,sr members(Platform seniours)should give them simple solution to adjust them  comfortably.But if the question is which one is the best?Then people must recommend the best one.I agree,it's a little bit complicated but one should  have the proper interest in this section if he/she really wants to do something here.

I understand what is the concern that exists in op, that also happened to me when I was new to crypto. there will always be misperceptions asked by the opinions expressed. because usually those who help provide answers only globally about what really happened but do not trace who asked whether the answer was appropriate and appropriate for those who asked.

let's work together and can help what is a concern from you and maybe as a beginner who also needs a lot of relevant explanation. It takes patience from all those who do have a good account to be able to help each other and explain it as best as possible without any misunderstanding.

this is my version.

If a newbie asks what is a good wallet to use?
all wallet is good as long it gives you full access. (private key, etc.)
start with a web wallet, it is free to use.

If a newbie asks how to earn bitcoin?
buy with fiat money, mining with a powerful computer, accept bitcoin as payment for your service/product, or get it for free by doing microtasks.

If a newbie asks what good thing about bitcoin? anonymity?
if you have a concern with privacy, anonymity might be the answer for you.
besides that, bitcoin offers you a p2p payment system. just a sender and a recipient.
no middleman.

I think this is more precise to tell to a newbie or newcomers for making bitcoin not so complicated when someone would asked you about it. Especially about how newbies would earn bitcoin, instead of telling them they can earn bitcoins by joining signature campaigns because not all of them are capable and dedicated to engage and to rank up in this forum; that is why it is much better to say they can earn bitcoins just like how they can earn from fiat.

I agree to the OP that mostly Bitcoin users are really making Bitcoin itself to be complicated which is making it too hard for a newbie to digest the information that would lead him to better understanding of what Bitcoin really is. The case is that whenever a newbie tend to ask specific answers about a certain inquiry he wanted to know, other Bitcoin users are making use of their experience which is already too broad to be easily understood by a newbie which certainly do not have any experience on the field of knowing and working with Bitcoin.

I think what it could possibly help to lessen the complications on better understanding or letting the newbie know about Bitcoin is just to directly answer the inquiry in a simple manner and let him ask a little bit more which he is finding himself widening the capacity of his understanding to process the simple to complex ideas he must know about Bitcoin. Just start it from simple phase of explaining then let him explore the complexity once he fully digest the sequence of information he must know which can be gained by self experience working with Bitcoin.

You just made it clear, I hope that most of the old guys here gets to understand this and stop giving information that can be misleading at times. Starting with that number one question, I always tell newbies that every wallet has their pros and cons, you don’t just say that a particular one is the most secure, they just have to be made to be aware of the risks involved.

I have been making use of mobile wallets for years now and I have never had any problem with them, mobile wallets like Blockchain, Xapo, Coinbase, and BitPay, and they all work perfectly and are also free to make use of, so why would you be telling someone to go for a hardware when it’s clear that most of them don’t have any money or they are not ready to spend on anything yet?

Bitcoin is not anonymous and juts because you want to remain anonymous doesn't mean you have anything to hide or want to do anything bad. For example, many writers write under a pseudo name.
Never use an online wallet. You need to have the private key kept locally on your device. Perhaps you could recommend celium on android? Maybe exodus on pc? There is also an app that allows your phone to act as a hardware wall and it works with MEW. It's very cool.

Well, I agree, we could just teach them the easiest things to learn or to remember but if you really wanted to take care of your bitcoins, secure it, understand some things that you might be confused with, that complication will really hit those people and if they are willing to learn they can, if they don't that is just fine, it on them.

I understand the sentiments that a newbie must have to learn and that is why they keep asking to know more. Of course, each member has different opinions and they also rely base on their experience which is better than telling lies. And these individuals will certainly be saying this is the best, this is right, and this must have to used. But newbies also asking how about this one? why not? What will happen? It was hard when you are directing to the right path but someone asking also different ways.

The reason why it complicates newbie's mind is that they are not satisfied with the right things instead of being curious to know on the dark side that all not suggesting it. They are only making themselves being complicated, not those people who are helping them.

Simple question deserves simple answer but many people here are making it too difficult for them to understand ,They dont even know that Newbie wanted to know how can this be use and what is the process.
Not because you are experienced you need to talk about the deep knowledge why not try to simplify ?this is what they need to hear.
i totally agree on this mate,because the more we talk the more complicated becomes the issue.

Admittedly some old members here make Bitcoin look complicated, but I'm sure they did without bad intentions or make it difficult
for the newbie. They give complicated answers, because they really want to give their best. But some newbies must find it difficult
to understand and consider Bitcoin complicated. Indeed, newbies should start learning from something light.

Experienced users recommend hardware wallets precisely because of the fact it is a safest option for a newbie. It is true that they are not free, but security they provide worth to pay for. And if you have no money to buy even cheapest one, what were you going to put into bitcoin wallet anyway? Listen to experienced usets, especially on this forum, because they want bitcoin to be adopted and they like to teach newcommers because of this. If every newbie were suggested to use shitty web wallet to store "their" money, then bitcoin wouldn't have a chance to become adopted among inexperienced users.  In such case, newbies would lost everything and go away forever. It would be too complicated, because every your step would lead to being scammed by dishonest owners of "your" keys.


What a stupid question as if bitcoin is a magic money of Internet that can be earned in magical ways. First, you have to learn what bitcoin is, why it is considered sound money, why it is better than current financial chaos. By the time you realize that bitcoin is money, you will have already understood that bitcoin can be earned exactly the same way as fiat. If you don't know how to earn money in general, that is another question.


If you don't value your privacy, your KYC documents will be sold on darknet and you will be scammed another way. Maybe you have nothing to hide, which is very hard to believe in, but don't sacrifice your identity, wellbeing and life because of this. Protect your rights, listen to advice and make your own decisions based on your own experience and other's mistakes.

If a newbie would ask, might as well tell them to search using google.

A good newbies would not ask to educate them with the basics, that is not wise, before they ask, maybe they need to research first the basics, use different platforms such us google and youtube and then if they have a little confusion, then they can ask here and members will surely help.

What we are trying to do when we advice is to give people enough information to prevent them for getting scam as that usually happen when they only know the basics and not the possible scam activities inside the market. For me, I don't find it bad to give your advice as this is a forum, it's a meeting of minds from different individual, they give suggestion not only based on their knowledge, but also based on their experience which is very vital and usually suggestions are given through a short but specific answers.

reported again,How many times do we have to report same Hijackers again and again.

Sometimes our Level of Answers as we get along is going deeper that we did not anticipate whoa re we talking .
we did not give attention on what level of understanding they have because for us the important thing is how we can explain our knowledge and for them to adopt.
we cannot blame them because this market is really complicated so if you are not ready for such answers then better get out of here.
we must be aware that this is a risky environment so being bright and fast learner is what we need to succeess here.

I'm not familiar with this idea however it has its complex but this is one of the easiest parts over the net

The series of question asked depends on the availability of resources from a newbies side. If a newbie asked which wallet to use, the answer is to look for a locally available wallet before accessing wallets that are internationally available since using internationally available wallets would be rather hard to use since local wallets have an automatic converter to that newbies currency.

Earning Bitcoin can be done in a lot of ways, joining campaigns would earn them Alternate Cryptocurrencies BUT joining campaigns available in the Services section would give them the opportunity to gain Bitcoin weekly.

The good thing about Bitcoin is the adventure that it gives to everyone and newbies can find that out by themselves since that would mean that they are interested.

I wonder what is complicated in advising to buy a hardware wallet?  It is so simple, buy a hardware wallet.  There is no hidden password or tech behind that advice.  I am sure once a newbie buys a hardware wallet, there is an instruction on how to use it.

---

I believe it is always best to advise them to do their research.  Study, research, and learn the ecosystem of Bitcoin if they wanted to dive into it.  That pretty much covers all the needed information of a newbie if he wanted to join the cryptocurrency industry.

Well, Im new to Crypto world myself and I must admit that i got confused with everything here when i first step in. However, reading on the different sections of this forum, especially the beginners and help in Meta section, before exploring can really help us get along the way. I could say that Bitcoin can only be complicated depending on how we adopted and trusted it. I believe that if you have faith that you could earn and get profits with something, you will try your very best to learn more and work hard to get what you are aiming for. Constant research is a must in order to not make everything here in Bitcoin world complicated.

What you are suggesting is true for old users who want to approach new users, it's just that I have seen a lot of it on this platform where old users always suggest better things and provide solutions for new users who are confused and then create a thread on the forum . I am not really able to approach new users, because I do not have the right or the capability to guide a new user where the risk to the crypto industry is quite large.

As for me, Whenever the newbies ask something about BTC and they want some easy answer about it, I often share with them this link: https://www.weusecoins.com/en/questions/ where I found it to be useful for all of the newbies who want to learn about the basic of BTC. When they asked something that is not on the list, I'm sure the other member will follow up to answer those questions and everyone will be satisfied with the information we provided them.

Only one page after my last reply in this thread, i'm compelled to do (yet another) writeup after reading the next couple of replies.

• I repeat, for the x^th time: it's not because YOU used a webwallet and haven't lost funds yet, that it's a good idear to promote these wallets to new members. My father smoked from before i was born (he always told me he started somewhere around age 12), and only stopped when I was way past my 30^th birthday. To this very day he hasn't developed lung cancer (eventough he did have a mild heart attack, but he had other habits that were bad for his circulatory system aswell). Is it OK for him to start telling people that smoking is ok just because he didn't get cancer? No, it is not... I've seen sooooooo many people losing their lifesavings because they trusted web wallets, it is NOT ok to promote them, even if you (personally) haven't lost any funds because of those wallets (yet). Web wallets go against the very core belief of bitcoin: "be your OWN bank", and don't forget: "don't trust, verify". By using a web wallet, you're giving controll of your private keys to a thirth party. They can freeze your account, rob you, pull an exit scam... And their gui is more susceptible to phising and social hacking. Promoting web wallets because they're free is utter nonsense. Plenty of decent desktop wallets are free aswell. A properly generated paper wallet has the cost of a blank sheet of paper. An airgapped setup can be created by booting from a live CD/USB on your "normal" computer, so it has the cost of a blank CD/USB... Sure, we promote hardware wallets, they cost <$100 and they're a good compromise between security and usability. People tend to forget that bitcoin = money, it's OK to tell people to invest <$100 to keep their money safe.
• Yup, bitcoin is about choice. People ARE free to use a webwallet if they really want to... Just like a smoker is free to smoke. Doesn't mean we don't have to give them a warning that smoking causes cancer, circulatory deseases and many more illnesses. Well, webwallets are easily accessible and free... Offcourse, they're not only easily accessible for you, but also for hackers and for the owners of the web wallet (but this part seems to get overlooked quite often)...
• I've seen a senior member advertising to mine bitcoin using a "powerfull computer". Sorry, but that's not how it works anymore... If you want to mine bitcoin you need to invest in an expensive ASIC, you need dirt-cheap electricity, you need a soundproof miningroom with good electric wiring, you need a lot of knowledge, and you need a solid plan. Don't try to mine bitcoin with your computer!
• Pointing newbies to micro-tasks is just wasting their time... They might even leave the crypto community and never return if they see their efforts resulting in nothing in their wallet

Choosing a wallet based on its in built exchange functions is a bad idea. Most wallets with built in exchange functions are custodial, and all of them charge ridiculous prices to make money from their users. Wallets should be picked based on security and transparency, not on exchange partnerships.

But I drive without a seatbelt and I'm not dead yet, so it must be totally safe! (/s)

I also hate the "every wallet has pros and cons" or "every wallet has vulnerabilities" line. Sure, no wallet is 100% secure, but saying the vulnerabilities of my encrypted, airgapped, locked-in-a-safe cold storage are comparable to the vulnerabilities of a web wallet is just downright wrong.

If you are new to crypto world, it would be advisable to spend some time to learn about this topic. I dont think that it is nice to blame old users for topics which are common, but you still dont understand them well

I just discovered the topic.

I would like to state that OP isn't entirely wrong. I mean, when I was a newbie (in the forum and in bitcoin generally), I needed a guiding hand to show me the road of cryptocurrency. I had really many questions about bitcoin and I continued learning because I was pissed off that I couldn't understand it. There are so many expert members here, but the problem is that you cannot put all that information in a newbie's head. If you search my first topics, you can see that I ask ridiculously stupid questions just because I was obsessed with the idea: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2775483;sa=showPosts;start=840

Anyway, I'm leaving the 6 month memories (:P) and I'm focusing on what you've said.


You see the problem with all these you mentioned isn't that a newbie gets confused on what wallet to use or how to earn his/her first bitcoins. Not even if bitcoin is good or not. The problem, for a newbie, is asking these questions on a huge forum which leads on getting tons of replies. This forum is actually the best on fulfilling someone's questions, because of the signature campaigns. So what makes newbies confused isn't that electrum is more difficult than blockchain.com, but the 10-20 replies he/she gets within a day, that makes him/her not know what to believe.

They already know that. They came here to learn more. They know that it is person-to-person (or peer-to-peer), they know that it is decentralised, they know that Satoshi Nakamoto is the creator that no one knows. But most of them come here everyday to find out the technical stuff behind.

I give an example. Me asking: How fast is the bitcoin network's spread? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5245652.msg54357959#msg54357959) (something that cannot be answered from googling, at least I couldn't)

Every veteran way a newbie once, so they can learn more things when they enter into the space.But teaching the complicated things too early can save your time and money so no need to take it as complicating just give enough time to learn the things by giving best of you as much as you can.Finally earning bitcoins though faucets or campaigns is not going to be much and one who want to have bitcoin means they need to buy it.

Basically, I agree with some of the points of the author. When I decided to get to know bitcoin better, I was advised to start with free faucets, after which I was drawn into it. I wasn't disappointed, I didn't leave, as some write here. On the contrary, I got a passion, an incentive. I began to look for other methods to earn bitcoin, since I had no money to buy it. But of course I was lucky to have a senior teacher who helped me understand what bitcoin is and what to do with it.

If a newbie asks what is a good wallet to use?

Just simply talk about custodial and non-custodial wallets and give out some examples and he would do the rest yet it isnt really that much hard to understand if you do really have that common sense.
Even on the most basic example or definition.A human being would able to catch up.  :D

If a newbie asks how to earn bitcoin?

This is where lots of answers that you can possibly give on thats why i agree on the point that it shouldnt be directly point out on signature campaign.
Start from basic like on faucets even though it isnt really worth for the time anymore but it would be a stepping stone for him to learn.

If a newbie asks what good thing about bitcoin? anonymity?

Just give out the bitcoins whitepaper and just able to to read up that abstract or few sentences then he would completely understand.
No need to spoonfeed or explain it detail by detail because it isnt really hard for someone to understand.

It gets complicated if a newbie would not listen carefully nor tried to understand what they heard or read. A teacher couldn't be good and see the good result of his/her student don't even understand what he/she teaches. Similarly, it gonna be a listener who has a problem or a coach itself.

It was a normal thing that newbie will be puzzled enough of what they've heard, that is why they keep asking but it does not mean that everything they've heard it makes them complicated, it is just them not clearly understand as they are bothered to the negativity and mix emotions.

When things go against your ability then yeah people will start babbling.. it's complicated.. it's something you can't afford etc

Then how to deal with this matter? Simply upgrade yourself and there's no more words such complicated or something. It's not that hard to fully understand the whole concept of cryptocurrency, the whole concept of bitcoin!
You'll only feel struggling when you do nothing but wondering that 'this thing is too complicated to understand'

im not just babbling that bitcoin is complicated
i can upgrade myself by learning more because im interested in it but what about those not interested
because to be honest bitcoin is really complicated especially to those not interested
i start this topic to learn how to make it interesting and easy and im still in the process
but thanks to the some of the reply i learn some from your opinion

Bitcoin can be interesting for those searching for new investment opportunities. Bitcoin has proven many times that it can survive no matter how severe market conditions are. Bitcoin can be interesting for those searching for disruptive technologies. These technologies are often unnoticed by the vast majority of people. But later they change the world albeit it is usually a slow process. Bitcoin can be interesting for those searching for a tool with which they would be able to transact freely. It is a sad truth for people living under oppressive regimes or in sanctioned countries. They are out of the world economy, but still they are humans like you and me, they have a right to free speech and freedom of transactions. Necessity is driving them to learn bitcoin, not just curiousity. When your life depends on bitcoin, it doesn't matter for you how complex it is.

There is enough logic in your words.  Despite having enough arguments, I could not agree with your complete statement.  Although many of us are making Bitcoin harder and harder, there are some things we have to say hard.  If a new user asks which wallet is safe to keep bitcoin in, I think it is better to say the hardest wallet.  Because it reduces the fear of losing bitcoin.  If a new user asks me how to earn bitcoin, I will tell him about the signature. By doing so, he will get a much better idea about bitcoin.

It will really be on case to case basis and we do know that people does have different mindset and views in particular things that they do encounter.Some might get interested and some wont able to do so due to some factors that they are facing.

We can say that it isnt really that much complicated but the hardest thing to tell into someone is into those people who doesnt even know on what technology is or even the simpliest idea on how to deal with tech
specially on older people but since we are on a more hi-tech era then we can expect that there would be lots that who can easily catch up.

Telling them the basics might do but it will depend on how you do deliver or do explain up things to them.

Sorry but this is not true, as people that have been in the market for a longer amount of time than a newbie we have the obligation to give the facts, if I was asked about the different wallets that exist I will without a doubt mention online wallets but I will not recommend them at all, and we all know the reasons why, not only you are trusting another entity with your private keys, the risk you get hacked with an online wallet grow up exponentially, in fact if you take the time to look at most of the hacks that are reported on the forum you will see in most cases people were using an online wallet so I cannot recommended them no matter how easy to use they could be.

You may think that telling newbies about Bitcoin and this forum should be in a friendly-easy newbie. But remember to tell them the truth, tell them the safest and best ways to be in. They are newbies and need to tell the ways to become better I reaching or earning the BTC.

Well yeah, hardware wallet may be friendly-newbies, but doesn't mean that you are better to suggest web wallets. Hw if they got scammed or their BTC lost? Will you take the responsibility if they are asking for it?
You may not need to make them use a hardware wallet, but there is an electrum wallet to be better.

Tell them that there is no easy way to earn Bitcoin if you are newbies. You know, it is better to tell them about the signature campaign or other campaign. Will they be only newbies or they are better to learn and learn more? I think that better tot ell about the knowledge at first because they can start learning from the basics and try to make a good member here. Doing faucet is very wasting your time and you may not get much money for it. SO, I personally will not suggest this.

Let's better put it this way, when a newbie first entered in a crypto currency world, she/he should not expect that everything here is so easy. Its not being so harsh or something, but a newbie needs to understand the kind of environment, features and risk that bitcoin have. So she/he will be ready/prepared to some difficult scenarios along the way. Its also best that a newbie will take much research and not just relying to someone to teach him/her. Personal research and constant reading about bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can help a lot for the crypto journey. For me, its better to struggle at first knowing all the difficult things here and learned from my mistakes, and become better as times goes on, reaping the fruit of my labor.

If you are interested in cryptocurrency, you'll find a way to gain knowledge.

There are a lot of ways for you to gain knowledge since Bitcoin is not a new technology anymore. A lot of books that could explain well what it is, the more you are interested in these cryptocurrencies the deeper your interest is in this, and the more you are desperate to gain more things about it. It is not always this forum, there are a lot of other sources we can use.

If you are a newbie, you would need the most secured wallet possible because chances of getting scammed are high.
Why would you entrust your Bitcoin to a wallet that is being held by a company itself. Web Wallet?? Just teach the newbie how to use hardware wallet in the simplest way instead of letting them store to a wallet where it isn't trusted. They always say, not your keys not  your coins.

I'm against the people who are saying that Signature campaign is the only way to earn Bitcoin.
Instead of teaching them that way, I'd rather let them know the basics of Bitcoin first until they will know how to earn it themselves. Faucets?? They are a complete waste of time. Your time isn't worth it if you are doing faucets unless you opened maybe 100 sites and doing it simultaneously.

Basics.
Just teach them the basics of it and let them do the rest. In my part, I learned the basics of it myself. I did some research and at least I know most of the basics of it. A newbie needs to do a research if they really want to learn and don't spoonfeed them.

Bitcoin is not difficult to understand, it just need some effort for them to learn about it. They will need much of patience in learning or ask someone who know more about it.

Maybe we could make them interested in Bitcoin?


Concerning your main post:
I think I would only recommend webwallets newbies can safely use without sacrificing their fund's safety, self-custody right, privacy/anonymity, trustlessness/permissionless, etc. I wonder how many web wallets can offer those ^.



Informing them about the importance of having true privacy while they use Bitcoin would be necessary.    In regards to Anonymity, i don't think it's really wise to attach your real name to the funds or assets in your public addresses, on a public network. I think that's part of reasons it'd be important to inform them about the anonimity feature of Bitcoin... or wallets could just guarantee the anonymity by default so we don't bother too much telling them about the feature until maybe they're grown in this space.

I think there should be ways to simplify things without omitting those important features of Bitcoin

Even they were a newbie they can still participate though. They might not able to eligible in a signature campaign but there's have twitter campaign, Facebook campaign, telegram, youtube, and more.
Even if you have a newbie account you could still use it to apply on those said type of campaign. And if you have other sets of skills like programming and such then you could post in the Service board and sell your service.
There's a lot of ways to earn even if you were just a newbie all you need to do is to explore all the board in this forum.

For the topic as a whole, it highlights the pitfalls that generally come with new users having preconceived ideas about how it should all work.  It's important to keep an open mind, as it helps when you're trying to understand the differences between Bitcoin and traditional payment methods that you might be more accustomed to.  There's normally a very good reason behind why we do things a bit differently in crypto and, for newer users, it's not always immediately clear what those reasons are until you really start to understand how it all works. 

It's certainly possible to fall back on old habits and try to treat Bitcoin in the same way you would handle your traditional banking and savings, but there are notable risks in doing that once you've realised that you aren't afforded the same consumer protections here.  It might seem easier to do what you've always done before.  But it's generally safer to learn some new habits and do things the right way.

As for the discussion around earning through bounty campaigns, please try to keep in mind that while some opportunities are there right now, don't expect that to always be the case.  Many of these bounties may well end up the same way as faucets at some point in future, meaning they may prove not to be worth the time and effort you need to invest over the long term.  Due to supply and demand, it's not realistic to believe the current payment rates will continue forever.  As competition increases and more people are trying to take part, it's only natural that people looking to advertise their service can get away with paying smaller amounts because they know some people will still be prepared to do the same work for less reward.  There's also going to reach a point of saturation where they simply don't need more participants for their campaign.  Consider yourselves warned, if you're going around telling everyone they can easily make money doing this, some of them are going to end up disappointed and might hold you responsible for offering bad advice.

Signature campaigns are not really a way to make bitcoin. Instead, it is a way to support altcoins and gain some in return instead of investing. It should be seen rather as a supportive investment than a method of making bitcoin. It's better to work online if you plan on making bitcoin. There many options available it's up to you.

Since this is a forum, I doubt that all of those replies have the same complex answers. That's the reason why we need to discuss a specific thing and he can ask again if he's still confused, and that how the discussion will work on this platform. People have different answers and experience of using bitcoin and for sure that there are complex and basic replies on someone's thread.

Bitcoin users don't make things complicated because they're always suggesting what's better for them unless the OP addresses some condition that won't be able to provide the suggestion.
In this community, users are already assuming that they're here because of money and I guess newbie knows bitcoin as an asset. Therefore, it's obviously can't be achieved by simple things unless they risk their time and effort claiming free BTC without any idea if it's legit or not. Those simple questions can be search in google but if he/she asked it on this forum, therefore he's looking a way to earn here in this platform.

A beginner can still use google to get information if he only asks simple questions like OP. Here we all need a process and so does a beginner. I don't think these people have made beginner feel complicated to get started with bitcoin as the answer given are exactly what beginner need.
So far I haven't listened to complaint from newbies that they are annoyed by answers provided by experienced contributors. I think all forum contributor have the best intention to teach as many beginners as possible, and beginner still need some effort and interest. There's nothing wrong with the answer and I don't take it as complicated as you think.

When your younger sibling asks for a new dress, you can either buy them a new one or give them a hand-me-down. You don't give them a dress you stopped using when you realized they might regret using it someday. So, I think I understand why some bitcoin experts immediately offer the more complicated solutions right off the bat when asked about wallets or anything bitcoin. They do it not to make things complicated but out of care.  

This depends on how you breed your children mate,because if you bring them with good manner and more appreciative then they will accept accept the dressed or things i stopped using.

answering the question directly is much better than telling them in the manner that they cant understand or harder for them to analyze .

like me?i wanted an answer straight to the point and not the answer that i need to dig deeper before getting the point.

bitcoin is still compllicated to avg user.  I mean unless you keep btc in say coinbase, imagine asking a person not tech savy to use electrum or a hardware wallet.  I mean its not that hard... but not as easy as coinbase. 

I think that people simply are not really understanding what this market is about, every time you try a new skill there is going to be a learning curve, it is as if people are expecting that bitcoin is going to work exactly as their debit card works and that is never going to happen, this market works under different principles and people must learn them and adapt to them, online wallets can be practical but only if you have a very low amount of money that you have no problem losing in the case you are hacked but should never be used to store large quantities of money or you are putting all of that money at risk that can be taken away by hackers or scammers on the blink of an eye.

People may not still understand coinbase if they don't know the use of bitcoin at all, some were just too lazy or already set their mind in their beliefs about bitcoin, like how other uses it in doing scam that makes other lose interest. Only those who are willing to learn and is looking for change in transactions, investments and finding alternatives will appreciate crypto especiall BTC. Time will come that it will be too popular and many will just regret not starting using it the first time they heard it.

I don't think that's completely right since it all differs from one person to another. I usually don't say the things you mentioned but follow a different approach.
It's just a matter of perspective.

I generally advice for paper wallets since they are easy to use and are safer than web wallets and I was really fascinated when I used it for the first time.

Earning money is tough. Earning bitcoin is tough as well. Faucets are great for newbies but it requires more time to collect bitcoin through faucets and be able to withdraw them so I don't recommend that. I generally advice the person to showcase their skill and tell them to receive the payment in bitcoin.

I say the person that the ability to control your money by yourself is most good thing about bitcoin. You don't have to ask the banks to approve your transaction.
You don't have to ask the banks to withdraw your own money. You can do transactions all by yourself (provided the transaction is btc to btc).

Bitcoin is no  available to many people even now, especially buying. Many people are already thinking that they could have taken the opportunity to work with bitcoin before. But also bitcoin is still becoming popular and the number of bitcoin whales is increasing. What happens if a large number of new users with opportunities become interested in bitcoins?