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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: SomeJasonGuy on September 03, 2020, 07:12:23 AM



Title: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: SomeJasonGuy on September 03, 2020, 07:12:23 AM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: bct_ail on September 03, 2020, 10:38:09 AM
This is hotdog:

https://i.postimg.cc/qqN8GJpF/screenshot-321.png (https://postimages.org/)
Source (https://twitter.com/lowstrife/status/1301216174659833857/photo/1)

Not hot anymore, isn't it?

Why do you think this is happening?
Its all FOMO. Like you have already said. The Defi craze is like the ICO hype back in 2017. People sees the green candles, daily gains of +100% and more and don't want to miss this race. BUt at this moment, it seems the race is over and we can move to serious projects.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: pealr12 on September 03, 2020, 12:36:32 PM
I guess defi projects will be same as the ico projects before, after a year of conquering the market they will slowly get out. Lots of defi projects is being added on cmc day by day but in the end they will leave.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: jerrison on September 05, 2020, 11:27:07 AM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?

I have considered DeFi to be a solution to the banking challenges we have long eexperienced in the banking space and all of its solutions existing on a trustless system gives even more confidence, Hence, the DeFi space is a necessity that must not be overlooked but at the hype the industry currently has on DeFi and also the pumps and dumps ongoing, I am forced to say, not everyone truely understands the DeFi solution approach. People should revisit the DeFi idea in order not to send a wrong message to the world.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: lotus23 on September 05, 2020, 02:49:16 PM
I think defi concept is picking up for the time being but whenever any concept is going on then sneaks some bad players and then all goes wrong.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Reatim on September 06, 2020, 03:11:19 AM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?
At least Now Community is asking and talking about how this is happening and what will be the future since something really in question about these projects.

Look at the Graph of Hotdog Coin is that normal ?Jumping High and suddenly falling down so deep?

Maybe some experts may enlighten everyone what this Defi projects really is and what will happen soon.

many speculative says this is likely to happen what ICo did in 2017-18 and others says this is legit,so what is the real score?


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: fourpiece on September 06, 2020, 05:00:58 AM
This is hotdog:

https://i.postimg.cc/qqN8GJpF/screenshot-321.png (https://postimages.org/)
Source (https://twitter.com/lowstrife/status/1301216174659833857/photo/1)

Not hot anymore, isn't it?

Why do you think this is happening?
Its all FOMO. Like you have already said. The Defi craze is like the ICO hype back in 2017. People sees the green candles, daily gains of +100% and more and don't want to miss this race. BUt at this moment, it seems the race is over and we can move to serious projects.
The chart looks like a hotdog though.
Be careful investing into defi projects, 3 days of pump then starting to die.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: ChiBitCTy on September 06, 2020, 05:04:23 AM
I knew this was a scam, as I was informed about it form people who know what they're talking about.  I decided to dig in to all this however so I could learn and see for myself and as an investment advisor I have to stay up to date with any financial product release. 

DeFi is a hot pile of shit, if you think any different you're misguided. I first dug in to "Voluto", which is a "high yield" savings account. Per their website "Voluto is a savings account alternative that allows you to earn a high-interest return on your digital cash. While traditional banks pay only around 0.05% interest on average, a Voluto account can earn you up to 6%. There is no middleman, nor any fees involved and you can withdraw your funds with all your earned interest anytime".

If this was economically feasible, traditional banks would have already been doing this.  Right now the best interest % one can earn in savings account is around .9%.  Voluto claims you can earn up to 6% lol.  Sure, in the beginning.  The funny thing is this has caused an arbitrage..as people are both funding their accounts as well as taking loans, which is netting them a guaranteed profit, or at least until it all blows up.  What happens when loans wildly outweigh deposits? Sure as hell not any iFDIC insurance either. This is not a sustainable model.

DeFi is filled with plenty of legit financial product concepts...however there is no substance to many of them.  For example Insurance products.  Insurance is a very basic concept, people pool their money together and when someone has a triggering event, insurance pays out ( examples-life, auto, business etc).  When buying insurance you look at to main aspects, the insurance providers ratings, and the cost of insurance.  These insurance products they are dreaming up will not get significant funding to be sustainable or affordable.

Then there's your usual shitcoin options, decentralized exchange proposals, analytical tools etc.

Lastly, much of this is based on hopes and dreams that will stem from smart contracts.  Nick Szabo, the creator of smart contracts, and probably the most brilliant mind in cryptocurrency has recently stated he believes that Smart Contract progression has stalled, and is unlikely to change anytime soon.  Smart Contracts in theory are amazing, but we are not there yet for these to do much more than basic operations software can already achieve.

My opinion is DeFi is a few scams layered with all sorts of other crap that's useless, non-existent, or already been created and perfected.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Dime miner07 on September 06, 2020, 06:19:47 AM
This is hotdog:

https://i.postimg.cc/qqN8GJpF/screenshot-321.png (https://postimages.org/)
Source (https://twitter.com/lowstrife/status/1301216174659833857/photo/1)

Not hot anymore, isn't it?

Why do you think this is happening?
Its all FOMO. Like you have already said. The Defi craze is like the ICO hype back in 2017. People sees the green candles, daily gains of +100% and more and don't want to miss this race. BUt at this moment, it seems the race is over and we can move to serious projects.

Defi is good. But this kind of project, makes a bad reputation to cryptocurrency as a whole.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Akiko on September 06, 2020, 08:14:25 AM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?

what are you expecting ? As long as the project is asking for investment whatever good they promise they are they will failed soon and investors will lost investing in it. They are just using a new ideas to grab new investors that willing to take the risk but if you will look at it carefully its almost the same as what ICO we have before they are just changing the ideas and name of the project they want to offer but its almost the same.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Krislaw on September 06, 2020, 08:45:24 AM
Defi are surely pump and dump and being manipulated easily, and the top holders are surely manipulating the price and suddenly dumps their holdings, take SUSHI for example after the sudden pump the whale also suddenly dump his holdings on Uniswap and drastically affects the price for almost over 99% also check YAM, you can actually see the scheme of those coin.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: naureen978 on September 06, 2020, 12:00:07 PM
In my view, defi team / project tried to promote their project as well people saw the project is growing very fast like hype and fomo they buy it and when the project owner and team reached their targets. So may defi project are scam they just steal innocent people money you can see the market now specially defi is on earth now and people should invest in real project they gave us slow income but we have no fear to loss all our funds.




Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Flangler on September 06, 2020, 12:42:42 PM
In my opinion, it is even worse because it affects ETH defi will kill current bull run.
https://image.prntscr.com/image/gzUVsGiLSiiSQWb1uK9i1g.png


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: kensaii on September 06, 2020, 07:45:23 PM
I can see many crypto users don't trust or buy the hype surround the defi project but they still invest in it mostly for short gains because of FOMO. This put the defi craze very similar to ICO craze back then. No doubt we're in the bubble market with defi is a part of the problem. Maybe a similar fate will soon happen to defi project like it was for ICO.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Flangler on September 06, 2020, 09:31:10 PM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?

HEH, I just found out that you are promoting defi project in your signature ;D The provider of this signature may not reward you for such posts.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Ridwan Fauzi on September 07, 2020, 08:05:57 AM
Even I can't see the on coinmarketcap, that's something weird.

DeFi project is suitable for short term investment, you may lose your money if you try for long term investment.

You have to remember as well what has happened to an IEO event, at that time I highly believe that this event will run for long time because they use an exchange to launch the project. Moreover with DeFi event, there is a bad that has been raisen, ETH fee transaction is getting high and it will give a bad effect for the coin.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: blue Snow on September 07, 2020, 10:34:20 AM
Defi is good. But this kind of project, makes a bad reputation to cryptocurrency as a whole.
you will learn how people get profit by fame, don't go into the lizard hole either.

they still invest in it mostly for short gains because of FOMO.
I am in also, bought some and sold it fast for a little profit. On this current market, trader shouldn't greedy to avoid lost.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: rdbase on September 07, 2020, 01:15:56 PM
This is hotdog:
Source (https://twitter.com/lowstrife/status/1301216174659833857/photo/1)

Not hot anymore, isn't it?

Why do you think this is happening?
Its all FOMO. Like you have already said. The Defi craze is like the ICO hype back in 2017. People sees the green candles, daily gains of +100% and more and don't want to miss this race. BUt at this moment, it seems the race is over and we can move to serious projects.

When I look at all defi charts they all look like a hotdog to be honest. :-[

They are hot at first then they just fizzle and die eventually with no real sustainable evidence to make sense what is to back it.
This has been proven time and time again with one coming out every couple of days.
It is like a game to the developers at this point but they don't care that people are playing with real money in their pet projects. :-\


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: gazilla on September 11, 2020, 12:52:51 PM
I am not going to lie the only defi coin that I have purchased ever since this defi frenzy started is SWIPE, and I would not have if it had jot been aqcuired by Binance. The bubble is goi g to blow and it is going to be messy.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: btc78 on September 13, 2020, 01:10:53 PM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?
I dont know why people like these are creating this kind of project and the sudden is there are stupid people that supporting this?

The Name itself is a proof that the project is going nothing,Imagine HOTDOG? what does this represent?

This is a Joke lol and not be tolerated and bought.

Already many defi projects have sunk to the bottom of which there will be no way to return. when the hype is over there will always be deep pain. only serious projects survive in this fluctuating market.
as what we all not Defi Supporter thinks that this will happen starting now.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: ololajulo on September 13, 2020, 08:23:17 PM
We should be reminded that ICO bubble was for over 2 years and made a lot of good projects and many scam. Some will realize after 6 more months to join the Defi hype before been left out totally. It has a alot of default but go after the money


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: qomariah95 on September 14, 2020, 02:04:04 PM
I guess defi projects will be same as the ico projects before, after a year of conquering the market they will slowly get out. Lots of defi projects is being added on cmc day by day but in the end they will leave.

The situation is almost the same as the ICO era. And even IEOs aren't that attractive now, as most investors find the DeFi trend attractive. Not attractive because of the project, but the short profit they are looking for. Only with low supply and hot topics about DeFi. Then the DeFi Trend will continue until many investors lose a lot of money.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: btcltcdigger on September 14, 2020, 02:08:39 PM
As with any thing (ITO, ICO, IEO and now DeFi) scammers are ready to take advantage of the hype.
Sad part is they're getting really good at it, and sometimes you have to tripple check everything to be sure it's legit.
And sure enough, more than 50% of DeFi projects now are scam or money grab.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: rk8814719 on September 21, 2020, 06:32:38 AM
DRK DEFI CHAIN Core  layer manage the agreement formed on the ledger and transition status.It include the most basic smart contracts allowing the creation of different entities and paymentrequirements.This layer is entirely free f charge to encourage usage and limit the development of other system. The only cost to be transmitted is for gas usage and the storage of information.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: crwth on September 21, 2020, 06:42:23 AM
This is hotdog:
When I saw this picture, all I have in mind is this

https://i.imgur.com/SJdDp87.png

Now you know what happens with these type of coins :o


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Anonylz on September 21, 2020, 06:40:06 PM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?

No bro, the Defi projects are more ridiculous than the ico bubble, at least during that time they were more sensible project name and concept than what we have in today's Defi trends, all you see this days is yam, sushi and probably egg soon enough, everyone just come up with crap and tag it as DeFi and expect people don't invest, and of course some people will always invest without thinking of the consequences.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: kotajikikox on September 22, 2020, 04:25:04 AM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?
What about the Hotdog project?you should tell us here what happen on this ,But checking what are those i found this

https://coinmarketcap.com/headlines/news/4000-to-1-in-5-minutes-defi-hotdog-and-pizza-present-free-fall-on-their-first-day/

Looks like these Whole Defi thing is a Scam?or there might be some that legit and not totally making BS for the investors though it is hard
to distinguish until it happens.

Let us just take 1 step forward against these scams,for our own safeties guys.



Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: erikoy on September 23, 2020, 10:44:03 PM
Sad but project was only made to be implemented but after some hypes all will be ended. How can we expect to get a good name of cryptocurrency if all matter here is self interest about scammingm or money? Hence, it will be difficult to achieve and probably forum will be left too due to this scam activity. And if there will be another forum to cater and screen projects then that forum might be able to surpass bitcointalk. For now, no forum could stand against the bitcointalk because most of the forum now are mess with users violating rules and regulations.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: ololajulo on September 25, 2020, 10:15:46 PM
I guess defi projects will be same as the ico projects before, after a year of conquering the market they will slowly get out. Lots of defi projects is being added on cmc day by day but in the end they will leave.
I still consider the scam claims on Defi to be early, I also feel the ICO comparison is still early, ICO raised so much fund that we have not seen such in cryptocurrency at the moment. Ethereum contribution to both start up process are similar but i think I consider Defi is to be improved with financial use case for cryptocurrency.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: rk8814719 on September 26, 2020, 11:13:10 AM
Draken is cheaper than current decentralized alternative with much less gas consumed.
Smart contracts are optimized for gas usage, balanced between anti-spamming and economic
feasibility.Anti-miner-spam: Miners have economic and reputation at stake to remain honest &
preserve the longevity of the network. The less slacking nodes there are, the stronger and
more sustainable the network becomes. Since reward in the form of cashback for miners is
equally divided among all miners, each miner is not incentivized to spam.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Arkann on September 26, 2020, 12:01:08 PM
I guess defi projects will be same as the ico projects before, after a year of conquering the market they will slowly get out. Lots of defi projects is being added on cmc day by day but in the end they will leave.
I still consider the scam claims on Defi to be early, I also feel the ICO comparison is still early, ICO raised so much fund that we have not seen such in cryptocurrency at the moment. Ethereum contribution to both start up process are similar but i think I consider Defi is to be improved with financial use case for cryptocurrency.
Today, many scammers are promoting their projects, while including the abbreviation DeFi in the description in order to attract as much attention as possible. But such projects actually have nothing to do with decentralized finance, and cryptocurrency users who are not used to analyzing available information very often lose their funds because of this. I also very often compare DeFi and ICO projects in the sense that sooner or later the scammers will seize the moment and at the peak of the popularity of DeFi projects they will run their business.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: isabella17 on October 06, 2020, 10:35:46 AM
DeFi (Decentralized Finance) is the merger of the traditional bank service with decentralized technologies. DeFi can also go under the name open source due to its inclusive format. These service includes items such as saving & checking accounts, loans, asset trading, insurance and more.

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Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: rizkyalhabsy on October 10, 2020, 08:03:12 AM
I think it's like a very different period, indeed a lot of saying defi is like a bubble I think that's true


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: michellee on October 10, 2020, 09:33:11 AM
I think the DeFi project is like a Hit and Run project, which we can make a lot of money in a short time, and we must get out of the market before it's ending. We can buy many DeFi tokens at the market, but we will need to sell once the price can jump to the high price. After that, we need to search for another DeFi project to buy, hold for a while, and sell it when it increases. It's happened to many DeFi projects. And it seems this will continue like that until the end of this year. Hopefully, we can use it to make as much money as possible to recover our losses before.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Arkann on October 11, 2020, 02:26:53 PM
I think the DeFi project is like a Hit and Run project, which we can make a lot of money in a short time, and we must get out of the market before it's ending. We can buy many DeFi tokens at the market, but we will need to sell once the price can jump to the high price. After that, we need to search for another DeFi project to buy, hold for a while, and sell it when it increases. It's happened to many DeFi projects. And it seems this will continue like that until the end of this year. Hopefully, we can use it to make as much money as possible to recover our losses before.
DeFi projects appear to be repeating the history of ICOs, as all investors buy DeFi tokens only to sell those coins when the price rises significantly. Based on this, it can be suggested that the prospects for most DeFi projects are very dubious, and only those that represent the final product will survive.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: imteaz on October 11, 2020, 05:20:26 PM
Well, Doesn't matter who thinks what but the Defi market is very profitable if you are able to get in first and farm for 7 to 10 days and sale, you can make lots of money. Fortunately, I got into some Defi project early, did farm the coin, and sold on top. You just have to be smart and sell and get out and take profit. This is what Defi all about =)


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Jocuserious on October 12, 2020, 05:52:12 AM
I guess defi projects will be same as the ico projects before, after a year of conquering the market they will slowly get out. Lots of defi projects is being added on cmc day by day but in the end they will leave.
It's like 2017 year when ico mark lot of hype where there is a widespread response to defi hype in an equal way. I probably know that 2017 year was ended with ico hype and later this year 2020 will end with defi hype. Every presentation will result in a scam where scammers will make a lot of money and new investors will lose money.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: peter0425 on October 12, 2020, 06:13:04 AM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?
as what i was waiting from couple of months ago that these defi thing will surely bring 2 things,the positive and negative side.

while so much good things i have been read an continuously posted in this forum.

There are also too many claims of defi being scamming.

If you are not ready to risk your money,then go away from these project and instead bet in top 10 coins for your own safeties.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: michellee on October 12, 2020, 08:24:23 AM
I think the DeFi project is like a Hit and Run project, which we can make a lot of money in a short time, and we must get out of the market before it's ending. We can buy many DeFi tokens at the market, but we will need to sell once the price can jump to the high price. After that, we need to search for another DeFi project to buy, hold for a while, and sell it when it increases. It's happened to many DeFi projects. And it seems this will continue like that until the end of this year. Hopefully, we can use it to make as much money as possible to recover our losses before.
DeFi projects appear to be repeating the history of ICOs, as all investors buy DeFi tokens only to sell those coins when the price rises significantly. Based on this, it can be suggested that the prospects for most DeFi projects are very dubious, and only those that represent the final product will survive.
That will be no problem if the DeFi projects is like the ICO. The investor will be like to buy the tokens in the beginning, hold it until the token enter the market, and sell it at the high price. It will happen like that, and I think we will see that in the future, but with the new name of the trend. I think many people are doubt the DeFi project, but they can not hold themselves not to join with the trend. And as what we already saw, many investor make a lot of money from the DeFi, and these situations is almost the same as when the ICO trends appear.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Bitstar_coin on October 14, 2020, 08:14:17 AM
People should stop generalizing and consider all defi project as bad, among the defi project of this recent times there are a few good ones, in short, defi is not the problem but the dev team taking the advantage of the defi trend, but despite all this negativity surrounding the defi project there are still handful of it that are good and genuine, so i don't think it is right to generalize and conclude that the whole defi ecosystem is bad just because of the bad ones among them.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: raidarksword on October 14, 2020, 02:03:15 PM
Its sounds ridiculous sometimes that they came up with food names into a DeFi project and it did really created a hype to people wanted to take part in and ride the hype train. There are some deserving DeFi projects out there that worth the spotlight but we cannot take away that their are people wanted to take advantage the hype of it. So, that's why the decisions will always be a vital to avoid scams on fake DeFi projects popping out.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Mame89 on October 14, 2020, 07:09:43 PM
A few days ago I have a defi token and I maintain it until now I think the price will continue to rise but what happened turned out that what I expected was really ridiculous and this I really experienced it. I don't need to show the coin it's just that currently the price has dropped dramatically from the highest price of 1 token equals 1 eth, currently it's only US $ 87.59 -12.1%
I feel utterly ridiculous for missing a golden opportunity and ignoring it.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: fourpiece on October 14, 2020, 10:55:05 PM
Im just waiting for these defi projects to end so that traders are in btc and alts again.  Defi are just a copy of ico the thing is its only enhance ico.  But defi will also follow the also the road of ico.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Marina5 on October 15, 2020, 05:09:22 AM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?
All the old coins are turning around.  In a very short time, it may freeze as before.  It seems that the insanity of the defi project will not last long.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: carlisle1 on October 15, 2020, 12:37:09 PM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?
All the old coins are turning around.  In a very short time, it may freeze as before.  It seems that the insanity of the defi project will not last long.
Nice use of word "Insanity" ,while many coins are struggling hard these defi projects are making its way up but there are some thinking about the fall of many defi based projects.

i know how popular this defi thing now but like you i doubt that it will last that long because Altcoin season shows this way in past but
 in the end fell down hard.
So hopefully those who invested here will realize this earlier before they fall hard with the projects they are supporting now.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: rodskee on October 17, 2020, 08:47:47 AM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?
I just find it stupid that someone will invest in that project knowing the name of the company is "HOTDOG?"

Kinda funny and name and looking at their team seems nothing is certain ,Hope they have just fooled small amount from this.
Scam like this is always here to come from everywhere since the Defi project has just got what they wanted and now is looking like what we have in 2018.

Lucky for me that i have stopped believing in newly coming currencies instead i am contented in what i have been holding and buying from older coins.
Im just waiting for these defi projects to end so that traders are in btc and alts again.  Defi are just a copy of ico the thing is its only enhance ico.  But defi will also follow the also the road of ico.
They will not end all because for sure there are some others that is legit and have a good future ahead.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Lycan70 on October 17, 2020, 01:43:10 PM
Hotdogs, burgers, sushi. Hmmm. I believe they have a beer and pizza variant too. Why these Defi projects wants to be named after food, I wonder. Definitely not projects that you can take seriously. 


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: X-ray on October 17, 2020, 11:48:26 PM
Hotdogs, burgers, sushi. Hmmm. I believe they have a beer and pizza variant too. Why these Defi projects wants to be named after food, I wonder. Definitely not projects that you can take seriously. 
To get the same hype as the early defi projects that used the name of food like sushi or kimchi(scam).

If you were also watching the defi projects called uniswap and there were so many new projects have used the finance name too. This trend is always repeating so many times. The first trend was bitcoin fork coin and that makes these fork scam coins appeared in the market.

The market looks so crazy right now.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: ultrloa on October 17, 2020, 11:56:10 PM
Hotdogs, burgers, sushi. Hmmm. I believe they have a beer and pizza variant too. Why these Defi projects wants to be named after food, I wonder. Definitely not projects that you can take seriously. 



That's why we need to be careful on such particular scams happening since whatever trend came scammers are riding the fame of new one so much better stay away and always look deeply on what Defi tokens we are going to and if we think it sounds scam we should not go with it and look for another.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: btc78 on October 18, 2020, 12:48:34 PM
Its sounds ridiculous sometimes that they came up with food names into a DeFi project and it did really created a hype to people wanted to take part in and ride the hype train. There are some deserving DeFi projects out there that worth the spotlight but we cannot take away that their are people wanted to take advantage the hype of it. So, that's why the decisions will always be a vital to avoid scams on fake DeFi projects popping out.
actually i found it funny that the first one i have read is Sushi project in which a Japanese food and then this one Hotdog,i was wondering why
people are investing in this obvious hyped currency?or maybe they are just greedy wanted to gain
 instant money but in the end becoming the victim?
Hotdogs, burgers, sushi. Hmmm. I believe they have a beer and pizza variant too. Why these Defi projects wants to be named after food, I wonder. Definitely not projects that you can take seriously. 
So there is also a BURGER project?what is happening to these people?where in earth that they are still hyping?

anyway lucky  that me and my friends will never believe project such this.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Lycan70 on October 18, 2020, 03:11:13 PM
Hotdogs, burgers, sushi. Hmmm. I believe they have a beer and pizza variant too. Why these Defi projects wants to be named after food, I wonder. Definitely not projects that you can take seriously.  
To get the same hype as the early defi projects that used the name of food like sushi or kimchi(scam).

If you were also watching the defi projects called uniswap and there were so many new projects have used the finance name too. This trend is always repeating so many times. The first trend was bitcoin fork coin and that makes these fork scam coins appeared in the market.

The market looks so crazy right now.

There are too many of them actually. They're claiming to be revolutionary project using Defi blah,blah, blah. Some Defi projects that comes with an exchange of their own that offers zero transaction fee (this feature is a good one though if it is truly a zero fee dex).  I'm active on an AMA group and one of those Defi projects that conducted ama turnout to be a scam. Thankfully, the project shutdown immediately without taking much of investors money. But I know that not all Defi projects are scam.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Rexler on October 24, 2020, 04:42:28 PM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?
DeFi seems to be just another ICO bubble, and I bet fomo is the main reason, so many people are scared of missing out, cus they saw how so many coins were just going up without any pull back, coin like Hotdog was a real bubble  :D, reached the peak and just fell down back to where it originally started, also alot of scammers seized the opportunity to start naming their scam projects with similar names to the successful DeFi projects, "YFI" was the most used by scammers, they came up with names like YF MOONSHOT, YFIR.finance etc which turned scam after two to three weeks, too bad the DeFi hype is no more there.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: CryptoYar on October 25, 2020, 04:55:24 AM
Nowadays, many projects come to the market without a team. And initially their price is pumped, so that people buy it with the intention of profit. But after a few days, its price starts to fall, and those who have invested in it are at a huge loss.

We should stay away from such projects, as they come in the market only for a few days. When Scammer earns a good amount of money, he starts work on another project.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Ridwan Fauzi on October 25, 2020, 03:19:59 PM
Im just waiting for these defi projects to end so that traders are in btc and alts again.  Defi are just a copy of ico the thing is its only enhance ico.  But defi will also follow the also the road of ico.
I believe for those who trade DeFi token especially on Uniswap are temporary. They only use a hype event and after that they will come to use bitcoin to trade and saving their money for long term investment.

Take a look with the major of DeFi token price right now, it is horrible to see.  But who know what will happen next? There is a different thing with the previous crypto event. DeFi event has brought a new system who has waited for a long time and indeed I realized that we need a decentralized finance.

So, just the crypto user who will decide that DeFi project is worthless or not. We are already know and we have been faced many times that new project that didn't give anything or there is no value/real function from the project then we just need a few times to see the project will be a shitcoin, unless it will be different if new project has a good function and give a good impat for crypto user maybe I can say that the project will compete the old coin even it is bitcoin.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: peter0425 on October 26, 2020, 10:01:26 AM
People should stop generalizing and consider all defi project as bad, among the defi project of this recent times there are a few good ones, in short, defi is not the problem but the dev team taking the advantage of the defi trend, but despite all this negativity surrounding the defi project there are still handful of it that are good and genuine, so i don't think it is right to generalize and conclude that the whole defi ecosystem is bad just because of the bad ones among them.
I doubt that people here are generalizing DeFi as all scams because in some posts we can see that they are referring to those scams like Hotdog or that Sushi something.
They just wanna make people aware of the chances of being scammed if not do necessary action towards defi projects.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: BayAngelo on October 26, 2020, 01:05:36 PM
Such is expected as usual. scammers will also detect a loophole to scam gullible invesotors. it started with YFI, a project with little supply sold past 40,000k per token. with littleor Nothing to offer. then, there was Meme, Rope and so many others that looks like Pump and dump project. what surprises most people including me is that some of these projects has good developers and they clearly stated the High risk in vesting in projects like this.
it looks like people enjoyed taking risk to make money than to focus on gradual developing projects.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: CuriousGeorge on October 27, 2020, 01:45:46 PM
Defi like pump and dump game.
And it's also very similar with a gambling as when someone was investing in the bad defi and he will always be scammed by the scam defi. Gambling in the defi project is a very high risk decision.
People should have experienced with the smartcontract, how to analyze the fundamental and various things involved to be able discover the legit defi.
It's a pump and dump scheme while sometimes it can be ended as a scam.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: NMBT on October 27, 2020, 04:38:18 PM
Defi is an inmature field at this moment, be cautious is you invest in it.

Try to make a deep search ni each defi project before invest.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Lordrift on October 27, 2020, 07:10:34 PM
Defi is an inmature field at this moment, be cautious is you invest in it.

Try to make a deep search ni each defi project before invest.
No how the DeFi project moves, A good investor/ trader is supposed to properly make research and enquiry about the project before going for purchase.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Rabi3 on October 30, 2020, 10:44:28 PM
i was pretty excited about Defi when news started popping off all over this forum and others, i thought it's going to bring something
fresh that could make a huge success, but i feel like most of the projects failed, and boy there are lots of Defi projects
most of them turned up to be a failure sadly.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: imstillthebest on October 31, 2020, 08:51:21 AM
i was pretty excited about Defi when news started popping off all over this forum and others, i thought it's going to bring something
fresh that could make a huge success, but i feel like most of the projects failed, and boy there are lots of Defi projects
most of them turned up to be a failure sadly.
who wouldnt be ? i am too because i was thinking at first that defi can be the replacement for the ieo , ieo was not a total failure but it lacks some shine and only few ieo were only produced  .  first early days of defi supply that shine that im looking for and defi continous to produce many projects  but its later run are not going well because recent projects are now performing bad . i guess thats how it goes to all source of crowd funding   , ico and ieo have gone thru this but atleast we had the chance to experience something new and if we got lucky we can earn at short period of time


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: rodskee on October 31, 2020, 12:16:13 PM
i was pretty excited about Defi when news started popping off all over this forum and others, i thought it's going to bring something
fresh that could make a huge success,
But it does already mate,Look at the top 10 cryptocurrencies now?some of those are from DeFi project that comes from lower rank goes up
 faster to take the position from the Old coins.
but i feel like most of the projects failed, and boy there are lots of Defi projects
most of them turned up to be a failure sadly.
What do you expect from this kind of market that People are tying to scam people while the news is fresh?
imagine how fast the news spread the crypto world so the scammers gills comes alive again and go with the flow.
the problem is people here in market of crypto still don't learn lesson from the past and still becomes the victim.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Sam-Os on November 02, 2020, 07:53:18 PM
People invest their money into something named after food with emojis as logos and get surprised when they get scammed, it's amazing really.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Reatim on November 03, 2020, 10:28:58 AM
People invest their money into something named after food with emojis as logos and get surprised when they get scammed, it's amazing really.
You made me laugh mate hahaha,You are perfectly correct in this one and same as my observation,Hotdog project becomes popular as what i have seen in some threads though i don't literally check this.
And according to coin telegraph now

Quote
The co-founder of crypto data aggregator Markets Science, Twitter-user ‘Bitdealer,’ has shared a chart  indicating negative correlations between 11 top DeFi tokens and BTC over the past 45 days to Nov.1, with AAVE showing neutral correlation and UNI showing confluence if less than 0.1.

Seven of 13 DeFi tokens were also found to have negative correlations with Ethereum (ETH), despite Ethereum powering much of the DeFi ecosystem.

With many decentralized finance (DeFi) tokens struggling while Bitcoin (BTC) surged in price this week, analysts have identified a longer negative correlation between DeFi tokens and BTC.

You can read the full details here

https://cointelegraph.com/news/zero-sum-game-defi-declines-while-bitcoin-booms


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: farrellronald on November 03, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
this is happening because people love money and they will do anything for it including trusting the people they don't know. People should be informed of what they are dealing with


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: nykka on November 03, 2020, 05:17:19 PM
DeFi hype started to go down and now we see more and more really good DeFi projects, not those, who wanted just to earn money and had thousands percents up and down per day. The same situation happens like it was with ICOs. Bad ones dies and good projects appears and start development


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: mexite on November 05, 2020, 09:18:16 PM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?

It amazes me to see many projects hide under the DeFi cloak but without any tangible innovation or contribution to the DeFi ecosystem. What fuela interest in such projects is investor's greed and fear of missing out of the next big thing. Nevertheless, we still have lot of ground to cover in DeFi and only innovative blockchain solutions can take DeFi to the next level of mainstream adoption.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Teraboy on November 07, 2020, 04:24:41 AM
this is happening because people love money and they will do anything for it including trusting the people they don't know. People should be informed of what they are dealing with
that means you didn't aware about where you are right now. We are in the speculative market and everything is about how tp speculate the coins to grab more and more money from the market as much as we can.
This is happening not only with the small traders but the whales were also doing it.
In cryptocurrency, the trend will become a money machine that can be used to generate a lot of money instantly.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: mace15 on November 07, 2020, 12:39:44 PM
DeFi hype started to go down and now we see more and more really good DeFi projects, not those, who wanted just to earn money and had thousands percents up and down per day. The same situation happens like it was with ICOs. Bad ones dies and good projects appears and start development
Yes this happens lately in defi projects when we observe it in the market price movement were down. Though not all defi projects will be going to zero some of it will pump once they had a development in their project. So, it is best if we could truly check prior to invest.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: wack slacker on November 12, 2020, 05:25:06 PM
I don't get surprised by names like shushi, kimchi, hotdog or berger in the DEFI market. The problem is that they give too high a return to entice people to invest in them. Few projects have successfully survived until now because their source code is so messy, most are copied from other projects and have problems themselves. One should consult with developers about the source code before investing in any DEFI project.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: shinratensei_ on November 12, 2020, 10:14:16 PM
this is happening because people love money and they will do anything for it including trusting the people they don't know. People should be informed of what they are dealing with
That's the point when they have a small opportunity to generate more money from the defi market even if that's only a small chance and they didn't care about the risk and keep investing their money on such project that can turn into the scam project anytime.
Defi is about a place to be used as a betting like when people were playing the casino. That's not a new thing because people have known what they have done.
Just hope they were doing complete DYOR before try to invest in any defi platforms but it looks like it's not so crowded as it before.
People started to get a sense of thing again by investing in bitcoin.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Renampun on November 13, 2020, 03:40:11 PM
I see DeFi has started to leave...
People may have started to become aware of the fantasy that DeFi has to offer and have started switching to Bitcoin and Altcoins as well.

People invest their money into something named after food with emojis as logos and get surprised when they get scammed, it's amazing really.
'lol' as if they had run out of names so they used food names to fill in the blanks of ideas. :D


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: quarkfx on December 03, 2020, 10:53:42 AM
DEFI's are more like small masternode coins. At peak mid last year , there was above 500 of them. All promising 200% APR and more, and some of them even looking solid.

But at the end, after many users get scammed or burned, just few of those masternodes survive...

I see same future in DEFI. Yes , few could earn 500% APY yearly, but only at start, and then hundreds or thousands will lose.

It cannot be legit and sustainable if it is above 20% yearly, even that is to much.

That is why more and more users use celsius.network, crypto.com, apyharvest.com, blockfi.com and nexo.io

AAVE is defined as completely legit, and as full DEFI, it should be more safe than any of CEFI's mentioned above...BUT...why would anyone hold USDT there @ 4.36% APY when they can hold @ 10.51% APY on celsius? Or why would anyone hold ETH there on AAVI @ tiny 0.13% APY, when they can hold and get 7.82% @ apyharves

Without institutional crypto borrowing, there is no DEFI that can survive, and it is close to impossible to get legal institution to provide liquidity to something decentralized and non-AML(KYC).

CEFI on other hand is booming, and IMHO it is a way to do. And they do favor to crypto, by switching more and more fiat bank holders to crypto, because we all know how much fiat banks do not give.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: ven7net on December 03, 2020, 03:57:37 PM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?

I believe the answer is obvious. DeFi is a continuation of the development of the crypto industry. We were all waiting for a new direction and now DeFi is just that. The fact that a lot of crypto projects have been released for DeFi lately and, as you noted with ridiculous names, suggests that DeFi really managed to attract a lot of attention from the crypto community and, accordingly, money. Of course, all this is done mainly for the sake of profit and there is no getting away from it. In any case, this makes it possible to develop the crypto industry, even if not as quickly as you want.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Drahzar on January 25, 2021, 09:27:00 PM
defi is a new market concept. as for me, it's more credible and transparent concept than IEO/ICO.  it shows that cryptomarket is becoming more sustainable and healthy than 3 years ago. besides, if you research a market you can really see that a lot of nice dex projects are rising and they have profitable defi tokens 


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: bitterguy28 on January 26, 2021, 04:12:06 AM
With projects like Hotdog coin and the likes doing the rounds, the whole DeFi craze is beginning to look and smell a lot like the ICO bubble a few years ago. Although, i feel that their own acceptance of how ridiculous and scammy it all is is ironically adding to their appeal.
Why do you think this is happening?
Just because of that one project ? why not mentioned Half of the project connected to DeFi so we will have more enough room to detract ?

These So Called Decentralized is not a total decentralized instead  a True Meaning on how risky Crypto investment is.

and with So many scam that happens in this platform ?i'm not sure if they are still reliable or total devastation .


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: slaman29 on January 26, 2021, 04:01:27 PM
Just because of that one project ? why not mentioned Half of the project connected to DeFi so we will have more enough room to detract ?

These So Called Decentralized is not a total decentralized instead  a True Meaning on how risky Crypto investment is.

Crypto projects in general were never decentralized to begin with, in fact especially so for the ones that DID insist they were decentralized.

And people just kept buying into them, in fact trusting more the projects who had people and figures around them and pledging their undying loyalty to these people any sane person otherwise would not have trusted. This is crypto for you though!


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: bustabitsboy on January 26, 2021, 07:44:02 PM
Defi is also starting to get scammed like an ICO.  This happens because seeing a project with high opportunities, people appear who want to get more and the plan according to which the project should move crashes or moves slowly


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Reatim on January 27, 2021, 01:31:11 PM


Crypto projects in general were never decentralized to begin with, in fact especially so for the ones that DID insist they were decentralized.
This is what others don't understand , Decentralization will Hinder the fast development that's why you are correct on here mate.
Quote
And people just kept buying into them, in fact trusting more the projects who had people and figures around them and pledging their undying loyalty to these people any sane person otherwise would not have trusted. This is crypto for you though!
This crypto is for all of us , and we are buying coins/tokens in new project means we are ready to risk and ready to Lose at the same time , that's why this called New project because there is no assurance that it will gain investors and trust that soon. unless the team has tons of Budget for advertising and popularization .


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Bethekingdom on January 28, 2021, 06:44:39 AM
defi is a new market concept. as for me, it's more credible and transparent concept than IEO/ICO.  it shows that cryptomarket is becoming more sustainable and healthy than 3 years ago. besides, if you research a market you can really see that a lot of nice dex projects are rising and they have profitable defi tokens 
by the way i see most of valued dex-es are developed basically with eth blockchain. and i see nice projects based on Curve exchange also.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Drahzar on January 28, 2021, 09:36:45 AM
defi is a new market concept. as for me, it's more credible and transparent concept than IEO/ICO.  it shows that cryptomarket is becoming more sustainable and healthy than 3 years ago. besides, if you research a market you can really see that a lot of nice dex projects are rising and they have profitable defi tokens 
by the way i see most of valued dex-es are developed basically with eth blockchain. and i see nice projects based on Curve exchange also.
besides i've found an interesting stablecoin exchange based on Curve - xsigma, do u know them?


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Bethekingdom on January 28, 2021, 09:51:21 PM
defi is a new market concept. as for me, it's more credible and transparent concept than IEO/ICO.  it shows that cryptomarket is becoming more sustainable and healthy than 3 years ago. besides, if you research a market you can really see that a lot of nice dex projects are rising and they have profitable defi tokens 
by the way i see most of valued dex-es are developed basically with eth blockchain. and i see nice projects based on Curve exchange also.
besides i've found an interesting stablecoin exchange based on Curve - xsigma, do u know them?
i heard they have top options for liquidity providers, really, but i'm still cheking them


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: gwdf1 on January 30, 2021, 07:37:57 PM
Everyone has their own opinion. It seems to me that you can’t say so categorically that DeFi is absurd. It cannot be that millions of users have entrusted their money to ridiculous projects. There are really high quality products that are sure to bring good profits.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: Novatech8 on January 30, 2021, 07:51:37 PM
HoT Doge isn't hot anymore lol  ;D, all these new DeFi projects are just players, it's why you should play games with such projects only if you are capable, instead of investing money on new DeFi projects that are less popular it's better to go for strong DeFi projects


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: doctor877 on January 30, 2021, 10:15:57 PM
It will always happen like this because we still bad eggs among us and that they could do such things. Just need to be more careful with every minutes talks and Defi investments. There are still lots of people who are waiting to do this through defi project. Let's be careful.


Title: Re: DeFi project beginning to sounds ridiculous
Post by: criket on January 31, 2021, 02:42:41 AM
Everyone has their own opinion. It seems to me that you can’t say so categorically that DeFi is absurd. It cannot be that millions of users have entrusted their money to ridiculous projects. There are really high quality products that are sure to bring good profits.
That's right, and everyone who has an opinion has also researched it first so they can channel their opinion when there are related things that can be expressed at this time, so I don't think that's wrong either.
everyone is entitled and can give their opinion on a project or anything. but sometimes some do not conduct research first or simply provide suggestions or ideas. isn't it when something that is shared without doing any research beforehand can also make new people get lost with what they read?
the defi project might provide an interesting breakthrough for the crypto industry. but a lot of new people are attracted by the hype going on in the market without knowing how the real market changes the situation.