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There has been many research papers, and the statistics are mostly pretty sad:
•   100% of people start trading with the hope of getting rich
•   80% of all traders quit within the first two years
•   Among all traders, nearly 40% trade for only 1 month
•   Within 3 years, only 13% continue to trade
•   After 5 years, only 7% remain trading
•   The average individual investor underperforms a market index by 1.5% per year
•   Active traders underperform market by 6.5% annually
•   Only 1.6% of traders remain profitable net of fees in the long-run

Who are in your opinion these ∼1% of traders? Why they are able to remain profitable? Are you sure you are one of them, if you include taxes, fees, etc.? ;)

I don't really know who these top 1% traders are but in my opinion, these should be a collection of the whales and the crypto investment funds (venture capital funds). I just assumed this up before these guys can make so much by just executing 2-3 trades monthly and if they do it right, they end up with good amounts of profits due to the fact that they use a truckload of funds to trade compared to the average trader who is just started out with $200 - $1000.

The reason why a lot of trades come short in the long run is because a lot of them think crypto is just a means to get rich quick and are impatient to see their plans and trades play out.

We always refer to the whales or big boys who have millions of dollars to spend in the market in order to manipulate and influence how the market moves at their will, but that isn't always the reason for people who can't make profits, it is more about intelligence and strategy to predict the market.
Whoever can survive and last longer in the trading battlefield obviously have a great methodology and strategy to achieve the goal.
The question is what do 1,6% of traders do differently?

The top 1% are those who don't trade at all IMHO. These traders trade when it is required - when the markets are going to make a move which is so big that it can make a huge difference when happened. These traders are from the big names who trade to make profits 'only' of any range.

This is why many says trading is not profitable at all, well I guess based on the numbers its all about the risk and of course the skills of the traders. Looking at the long term time frame, if you still losing big money then trading is not for you or you just need to improve yourself and learn more. Traders must also know delayed gratification and don’t just think that you’ll get rich easily on this market.

For sure these numbers are really pertaining with Forex/Stocks trading since this crypto market is just a decade year old then we cant really say that only 1% is making profits
on this entire market.We might not have those precise percentage but for sure it would be more than 1% because if we do saw that there are only a few been making profits
in long run then we wont really be seeing much of liquidity.Just try to observe the entire market when it comes to moving price or volume then its hard to believe on such
claims.For forex then i might believe but for this market? No, i would really be more than that..

People in trading just come and go, there will be newcomers or old traders who survive in the crypto trading industry.  I don't know who are those in 1% but probably they are those people who are willing to risk and spend more time in trading.  In trading failed, not all become successful, if there's a winner there could be a loser and that's how trading will work.

It might be the reason that there are always new beginners in trading that hoping they will earn money and thought that it is easy to trade and gain profit.  But the fact, that isn't, it is required skills and strategies before you will become a successful trader and probably those who failed can't able to survive and the choose quitting than to survive.

These are the most experienced traders. They have a different source of income that helps them to sustain their trades. I'm not one of them but how I wish that I can be part of that very small percentage that managed to continue trading all of their lives.

As a holder, I only trade when it's the right time, and probably this 1% have done day trading before to master the market for a long time. And after that, they've chosen to manage and become stable through holding certain stocks and cryptos that they rely on someday.

Probably people who have successful or profitable trading strategies. Better to develop or use something that works consistently for you. If you find a strategy that works for you most time , you automatically become part of the few successful traders. I think they are few people who are consistently profitable in trading but am not really sure about the percentage

they were definitely extraordinary people. It is even possible that a token maker or a person who is able to launch his own token is able to make all long-term tax payments in his trading. And I feel that maybe I'm not included in that part because I'm still a very beginner in trading.

Not at all actually. All the big guys and whales are just regular humans like all of us - in fact recently they OUTPERFORM the common retain traders :) You can see the data below:

https://i.postimg.cc/JztVL5zD/Picture-1-retail-vs-hf.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/CKf3ZMDw/HF-vs-retail-may-2020-0.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

But I do agree with this point - the main reason why so many people eventually lose.



Yes, I totally agree. So what in your opinion makes those 1.6% different? - it can be either institutionals or retail traders like everyone here.



Lol, yeah good point - as there was a quote in Chinese, about you don't need to join a battle to win - wait and see how your enemies kill each other and themselves ;D




But skills can be learned, aren't they? I know that many people are too stupid or too lazy to actually sit and learn something, but I think it's greater than 1.6% of those who actually learned / mastered the skill, but still keep losing?



What you refer to is the small sample of history for cryptos. And you might be correct with the current market - it's too new, too small, thus too many arbitrage opportunities (like few years ago even some technical analysis would make you decent money - like with stocks many years ago). But once you increase the sample, more people enter the market, more people try new / old strategies - the numbers will average themselves to 1-2% same with other markets, be it FOREX, stocks or other assets.




Yeah valid point also, but just "keep trying and you will succeed" might not be very feasible for everyone due to personal capital limitations. I believe if you have $1m ready to go wasted, and you keep trying with $100 only, eventually you will master the skill (if it's about that). But those who succeed rarely waste so much money on just trial-and-error experiments. There must bee some other factor?




You refer to market timing strategies - they are well documented also and well researched. No need to invent new things there, just study quant approaches to market timing and you will get what you aim for with "right entry" points. But that's also not for everyone I guess, and not that sustainable. Once every guy around the corner knows how to time the market based on advanced strategies, - it will stop working.




Once you find the amazing winning strategy - there's short period of time you have to make money, because advanced funds track inconsistencies and other funds, and can analyze what you do differently and quickly replicate your strategy. So eventually this strategy will be known to everyone and will stop making money.



That's the common misconception about traders. We are all special and extraordinary in own ways. What can be done by one human - can be done by another human also with enough patience, time and efforts. I believe it's not just about skills or being extraordinary.

That is really interesting.
Do you have a link or study to backup these numbers?

1.6% of the winning traders are whales and whale followers.  Yes, im not kidding, this is true of any financial market.  That is why there is a very good saying in the financial markets, that the more money people have, the richer they are.

Margin trading, Futures, BO are all gambling;  The market and rich institutions are the bookmakers so your chances of winning are very low.
- I just want to tell the truth and hope the new traders here must be very focused when trading and never be subjective.  Getting rich by trading is a long project and you have to sacrifice a lot to become professional.  Trust me guys ;)

Well yes, in short-term the number can be very large, but thats not representative of actual situation. I think there was a study also that had proven that a monkey (literally) can trade better than Wall Street trader, sometimes even outperforming him. But I doubt you would call a monkey to be a successful trader ;D To be in that 1.6% a trader needs to have persistent positive stable, net of all fees and expenses, returns. Risk management + money management is fairly simple and nowadays can be well automated, but even those people loose money. And hedge funds and instituions also actually - not all of them is able to earn decent returns (when they earn).




I don't really agree with all. Yes, you said correctly that the more money you have - the more money you can make (not always though, look at Lehman Brothers among others), and those whales, etc. as I showed above actually underperformed retail traders.

Margin, futures, options, structured products, derivatives - actually very good source of alpha. I personally know people who got very rich by trading options. Yet not too many people can really understand behind the simple "call is a right to buy asset in the future". There are so much more into that. That's why there's less competition in that area I guess.

As for long-term in trading - very right. Can never get rich overnight with anything.

I also agree with you. Yet with psychology & strategy & money management - there are many books, researches on this and now softwares that help with that. But people still keep loosing ;D

How I see that is both institutional and retail traders / investors usually have:
1) luck: you cannot control it
2) skills (incl. strategies, etc.): you can learn it easily or hire someone who already got this skill
3) insights: usually illegal, but can make you super rich

and

4) instruments

With all the tech-hype, people might have misunderstood that "tech instruments" (fancier charts, AI, neural networks, prediction models, automatic SL/TP & risk management, etc.) will help them with profitability... Yet, I think (doesn't mean true or correct, that's why we are having discussion :)), it's about "financial instruments". That can imply access to the top VC deal directly (you as regular person cannot get in), ability to trade various types of swaps (you cannot also mostly), ability to invest in RSAs (revenue sharing agreements) / infrastructure projects (hard to default, provide stable and ultra-long term return), exotic derivatives, different types of structured products, and many many others. All those fancy software can be googled and bought fairly quickly, but for financial instruments - you just cannot :)

From where did you take these statistics? I wouldn't say that only 1% of traders make money but without doubt, the actual number shouldn't be higher than 10 percent. Some people like me would say that trading is unprofitable, at least any statistics would prove that only a small percentage of traders actually make profit but on another hand, remember that if someone profits, it's because you lose! So, in this case it means that trading is very, very profitable if you belong to those number of people who profit from it because a lot of people lose a lot of money and a small number of people get them.

Pretty good statistics and data sharing are reported. Although the rate of traders who earned a net profit margin in the long-term period is too low for me, I do not think that this ratio will be too high under any circumstances. On the other hand, in response to your question, it is possible to say that patient investors who perform technical and fundamental analysis in a correct, successful and definite way include that percentage. Of course, there will be traders who will win without any detailed analysis, although rarely, but I don't think the number of such people will exceed the number of fingers of a hand. That is why the answer to your question will be the traders who make accurate technical-fundamental analysis succinctly.

I don't know who the 1% successful traders mean...
everyone ever profits and losses in trading but there is a hidden group *maybe whales which are compact selling when it must to selling and buying when it must to buying. *maybe the whale's group which is 1% successful in the trade

Maybe. However, there are many traders who are experienced enough to get an idea of ​​the next movement in the market. And I think they are also the 1% traders who can earn by trading. Whale traders dominate the market and make a profit through their huge funds. And the retailer who makes a profit from the market earns by trading using his knowledge.

So according to those small experienced traders are also among these 1% successful traders.

That 1% might possibly be the whales who holds big volume enough for the to manipulate the price. People can really profit from trading since the track is just based on human behaviour. And behaviour can easily be studied since there is pattern that can be used to determine the next price.

Becoming good on trading takes a lot of experience, a lot of loss because experience is costly. Doing trading for longer period of time means you have finally get the whole idea of trading, but because along the way there is a big lost happening only those who can sustain remain.

It's not really difficult to know who they are, a portion of those traders are whales, people that can move the market on their own and that can perform moves that the average person cannot do, others are simply lucky and despite their lack of knowledge they have obtained profits simply out of luck, and the remaining group consists of the few traders that actually take the time to understand the markets and think about it and that develop a strategy that gives them profits over the long term and then follow that strategy no matter what.

Is that 1% a little bit too low for us to presume when it comes to those successful traders? Yes, whales are on the main list since they do have always the advantage in the market
due to fund capacity or capability.

I do still believe that there were still few retail traders are sustainable into this market with just going with the flow and this is where experience and skills will
vary into each trader.

Profitability will depend on how you do deal with the market and just make it sure that you would make yourself included into those profitable side.

In my opinion, the 1% traders that remain profitable are traders  who are passionate about trading crypto, who always learn from their previous mistake, control their emotions, never panic sell, have a reasonable stop loss strategy, never follow hype and know how to select good coins.

I understand this part.
Why? It becomes boring as time goes by.
Even if you are making profits, you start to wonder if that is it. Are you stuck with that routine?
This is also the reason why I don't do it every day. I felt it before and I am still feeling it now just 1 hour looking at the movements in one exchange.

I really envy those who can still continue up until now. That means they really love what they are doing.

Guys who have been asking for sources. I did post links to several research papers but it was removed by moderator. I assume it's not allowed here, so I will post just the references to research papers - feel free to google them all you can find them all.

The North American Securities Administration Association (1999): Report of the Day Trading Group
Barber, Lee, Odean (2010): Do Day Traders Rationally Learn About Their Ability?
Odean (1998): Volume, volatility, price, and profit when all traders are above average
Barber, & Odean (2000): Trading is hazardous to your wealth: The common stock investment performance of individual investors
Kumar: Who Gambles In The Stock Market?
Barber, Odean (2001): Boys will be boys: Gender, overconfidence, and common stock investment
Calvet, L. E., Campbell, J., & Sodini P. (2009). Fight or flight? Portfolio rebalancing by individual investors.
Barber, B. M., Lee, Y., Liu, Y., & Odean, T. (2009). Just how much do individual investors lose by trading?
Gao, X., & Lin, T. (2011). Do individual investors trade stocks as gambling? Evidence from repeated natural experiments




You might be missing that most of the times you lose to the exchange, not necessarily to other traders. Especially with the ones who allow you to use high leverage and always liquidate you (sometimes by manipulating price). That's not really same with "trading success".





Yes, for sure those are not simple, but they can be taught, right? Just a simple ratio of expected TP-to-SL of 3-to-1 would save a lot of people, but of course there are way more advanced methods. Still even the ones who mastered it, don't necessarily earn profits (with consideration of all fees, taxes, inflation, real rates, etc.)



True and no I think. You can skip most (not all) the hard-way learning path by learning from others what works and what doesn't, what worked before and what won't in the future. Just like with basics - yes, you can directly deposit $100 and start learning and after a year personally find out that there's head & shoulders pattern, there's overconfidence bias, etc. Or you can read it, learn it, see it, and you already skipped that 1 year of practice.




I don't think its about technical & fundamental analysis (I don't refer to pure crypto trading, but trading overall). Based on the proven EMH (Efficient Market Hypothesis) - technical analysis will not work, fundamental analysis might work but very very rarely under specific market circumstances.




Also possible, but if that is the case - knowledge can be learned. So the retail trader would accumulate enough knowledge and become a whale him/her/self. Thus others seeing that would repeat that many times and in large enough sample data, there will be too many whales who are continually earning good profits systematically (!) and persistently (!). But that's not the case at all... One among many other examples is LTCM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management) - they got most money at a time, most talented people, they were definitely the whales but...  :)





Then here you refer to initial capital which you can waste on learning path. Then why wouldn't you start with $100 initial cap, and trade $0.01 deal sizes? Like this you get 10,000 chances to see how good you mastered trading.

You also reefer to basically 3 things: 1) luck which we cannot control (even international banks can get unlucky), 2) skills & experience which can be learned, 3) initial capital - which doesn't mean anything actually. Like with Takashi Kotegawa who started with $13,600 and ended up with $1.65 million in 4 years (4Y CAGR 232%), and $153 millions 4 more years later (4Y CAGR 210%), having 8Y CAGR of 221%. The guy didn't start as a whale, nor he read anything different from what we all can just google and read too.




Yes, but how do you decide which side will be profitable? Again - experience & knowledge I think cannot be the only factor here, since it's ready available to anyone around the world.




Isn't that also about skills & experience which can be learned by you, me, or anyone else reading this? Besides, it's not only about crypto trading, but trading overall - equities, FX, crypto, derivatives, just anything.




Yes, loving what you do and being able to monetize it is probably the best thing in anyone's life. Yet, as those above researches have shown - some people continue trading for many many many years, but never earn anything ;D They do love what they do, they do accumulate years of experience, they do learn a lot of things, but... still cannot earn anything.

Yeah this is what I know. Retail traders gradually became whale traders at one time. Because the retail traders who can make a profit from market, they make a profit by using their knowledge in the right way. So it is conceivable that these traders can guess at a much deeper market move, so they can take advantage and they express themselves as successful traders.

I'm not quite sure where did you get those number but I don't think your statistics were right may I ask where did you get those information but if those were right i think those 1% are probably full time traders or probably whales.

Yes, but not all, right? Again, I believe knowledge and skills can be learned by anyone any time with the current internet penetration, google, etc. I saw even some people learning trading from TikTok ;D but having those skills, knowledge, experience, etc. Never guarantees that you will be in top 1%.

The numbers are from the collection of research papers which I noted above (see below also for your reference) - you can google them (because when I posted links to them my message was removed by moderators ;D)


As for full-time traders and whales you can check the earlier discussion where I explained that it's very weak reason - those people are also humans like both of us, and lose as much as regular people. It's just happens to be that we hear only about success stories, not about failures so much - survivorship bias.

Where did you get this analysis? I'll be happy if you put the source to convince me that the analysis is trully happen.

I mean, I never got this information because if I got it then I'll have many times before I decide to be full time trader.

I read a trading book and the author just called that trader is a cursed profession and I just thought that it is true because I've felt it.

A trader prediction only have 70% if he really sure about his prediction. They never have 100% a chance to get profit about his prediction. Also, trading is always hard, just a fool people who admitted that earning money in trading is easy.

Would you cite those research papers you've been referring to? Many statistics, especially in trading, often relies only on a small percentage of respondents and never reached a the vast number of whole day traders. Yes, it is accurate that it is only almost 2% whom earns in trading, even I myself still struggles with it despite of being knowledgeable enough in that field. Trading, in overall aspect, is profitable. It really just an intense gambling of risks whether or not you take a point in either buying or selling. And of course, some intermediate knowledge with reading charts as well and searching for news would be a huge aid, yet the most important would be one trader's risk appetite.

Just a little note, there are DAY traders and LONG-TERM traders, whilst there are also STOCK trading, FIAT trading, and CRYPTO trading. Your 'researches' might be accurate on one side, and could be the opposite on the other.

Yes, it is. The strategy I mentioned can be used to trade in other patterns of online trading or investment you mentioned but you can't compare them all to cryptocurrency because crypto is volatile, only traders that have already learn how to maximize their profit over the loss and also seize every opportunity presented by the market can trade crypto.

In trading, it's good to always seize every opportunity that the crypto market has to offer but expect that not all opportunities will give you profits because sometimes, it's there to give you lessons to learn. If you chose to be more patient and always control your emotions when trading, then you can be those 1% who remain to trade successfully after long years in trading. I guess the reason why some traders don't last in this trading activity because of their thought that trading gives you quick profits and make you a millionaire in just a short period of time which is definitely not true.

The sources for the numbers are just above your message.




The sources for the numbers are just two messages above. You also forgot to mention SWING traders, ALGO traders, ARBITRAGE traders, BOND traders, COMMODITY traders, DERIVATIVE traders, OPTIONS traders, SHORT-TERM traders, BOT traders, whom else you wanna include? ;)




I believe you are correct. But if that's the case that would mean someone could automate all those things and avoid "personal experience" & psychological factors. Yet, algos also don't always produce positive return with consideration to all related expenses.




Maximizing opportunity to possible loss is fairly easy I think, by just following TP @ 3 and SL @ 1 (3-to-1 ratio) would produce "decent" results and would make sure you don't lose all money too quickly.




In fact if you try to seize every opportunity around you are likely to get distorted and get your capital spread on too many deals which you cannot track well because of natural human limitations. If you try to play statistics by using "law of large numbers" and take every chance with the hope that eventually 51% of opportunities will be profitable and 49% will be not - you will very quickly find out that your capital is not sufficient to try that law in real life.

I find this to be true when I think of myself and many people I know.

Only 7% remain after 5 years because trading is exhausting physically and mentally. Most people can't live in stress for years.

People underperform the market because they are impatient. They see it going up and sell when they reach their target but their target often is not the market's target.

I am not sure where you got your statistics from but more than 50% of traders earn with trading. When we mention trading you need to understand that it involves you and me and everyone in the crypto space; Taking profits and earning from trading has nothing to do with passion but determination, good and perfected trading skill as well as an accurate decision making skill too.

when it involves trading, do not involve emotions. Always do your own research.

Is this only for the crypto market? I think 1% is too low, I really don't think that only 1% survives trading that earned a profit in the long run. I think those other than the 6.5% active traders are mostly traders who come and go when they see an opportunity and don't actively trade.

Can you provide us some context of this research results on how is this conducted, where does the resulting base, and what kind of platform does this research base?

That highlighted word is really appropriate in terms of traders performance.

Most are impatient thinking that this venue of investment is really easy, they've got a wrong impressions and with negative experienced
they'll be moving away that easy, giving it up and not to bother to continue instead of working more and learn more to established a much better patterns and winning strategy.

I think Discipline is the key in trading, from many reads i understand that first two years are the learning. Then conclud Trading is the best option or not.

True, - what you refer to are behavioural biases. There's even specific area studying those - behavioural finance, as a part of which you can make trading models / systems / strategies to exploit and from from common traders' biases.




Sorry, not to offend you, but you say the cliche phrase "always do your own research", yet you didn't do yours, because if you would - you would see every single source for the data just few messages above, and before that, as so many people asked same question without really checking the thread. If you believe >50% of traders are successful, then leet's see what that means... You can just google "number of traders" and the first result gives you 9.6 million online traders (doesn't matter how correct or wrong this specific number). Let's assume on average each of them trades with $1,000 (! on average - meaning someone can be with $10, or $1,990 or much more or much less). Let's assume each of them earns 20% annually net of fees, inflation, etc. (actually to achieve even this 20% is not that easy ;)). So that implies that:

9.6 million of traders x 50% of successful ones according to you $1,000 avg. balance x (1 + 20%) ^ N, where "N" stands for the number of years

What you get? - in 1 year, those 50% in total will be trading $5.7 billions - in 2 years, they will trade $6.9 billion, and so on... assuming average trader trades for 15 years (doesn't need to be precise), they will be collectively trading $73,953,703,558 = $74 billion! Oh, and yes we forgot to include newcomers in these 15 years, and funds, and corporates, and banks. You can do the math with 50% success...




Read above...




There's no "winning strategy" at all, it must always be changing and adapting to different markets, assets, situations, contexts, otherwise your balance will quickly drop to $0




Why wouldn't you then just handle money to someone who passed these 2 years of learning and showed good results? We, as being rational (not always though) human beings aim to maximize ROI from anything we do. And here you make a choice: 1) waste 2 years + money lost in 2 years + not sure if can succeed after 2 years, vs. 2) handle money to proven professionals and let them do their job?

There will always be a time to learn a lesson from trading decision and thats why I always advised traders to also have knowledge in selecting the perfect coins not just a hype base crypto that will be worthless in the future.

If the invested coin is good the next thing is to be patient.

That's was the first impression i also had when i joined cryptocurrency and i have made a lot of bad investment decision but learn from it.

The whales are the 1% trader we are talking about, they don't just trade like the normal traders, but trade when they wants to take profit in the market. We'll know that to be a trader need or require some sort of skills but not in all cases, sometimes traders are most lucky than another but adding the skill bring more advantage. In conclusion "knowing when to exit the market make a trader topnotch" and not necessarily their skills per-se.

This do talks for sure on active traders success rate on a typical market.Check these links to see on what im saying.

https://www.tradingwithrayner.com/top-one-percent/
https://www.quora.com/What-do-the-1-of-successful-day-traders-do-that-other-99-dont

This might be the reference on why op been talking about 1% success traders which i do believe we do have more
on this crypto field or market.

I think this statistic is referring to retail traders and not professionals aka institutional trading.

The secret is discipline and risk management coupled with a reliable strategy that YOU can follow consistently. The emphasis is on the first two components: the ability to stick to your strategy and do not be distracted by the gains nor by the losses while keeping a solid risk management system in place will make you successful at trading.

Remember that emotions are very hard to control and much harder to master.

For me, those 1% are the traders or investors who fully invested in their knowledge where they fully understand the game, they also know that trading is not just quick rich wherein they have a view of a long term success. Many traders are failing because they want their money to double in just days without focusing in risk management that causing them to lose a lot of money. If you want to stay in the game then focus on your risk management like knowing how to use stop loss, knowing the perfect time of entry and exit.

Mastery is also important wherein you should focus on mastering reading prices, trends also the indicators that you are currently using, there are a lot of traders out there who keep losing because they also do not have any trading system and for me it is a matter.

To ease this mental and physical stress enabled a lot of traders to transform their strategies to bot in cryptos trading and Expert Advisor EA in forex, spot and indices trading, to automate their trading so as to reduce the stressful nature of trading a lot of them are making profits consistently I believed there are many of this set of traders that isn't capture by the statistics I believed the overall profitable traders should be more 1% IMHO.

I would love to see these researches honestly. I do not believe that only 1.6% of traders make a profit, I think there must be a lot more people who make a profit from trading. After sharing something like this, it is obviously important to provide the stats data and where you found this information.

If you could provide the information from the research that shows that only 1.6% traders make a profit, I would have to say the reason is probably only 1.6% of traders keep trading with any emotions after a long period, many people trade because they want to get rich, and they see wall street type of people getting very rich and they want to do the same but they forget that those people deal in billions and they make very low sums of profit but do it for decades instead of few months.

Those numbers are probably based on short-term traders stats and not mid/long-term traders/investors.

Because I know a good number of people that usually look for a project with a decent or above fundamental and instead of trying to trade it they will just buy and hold it for a while and it's more like an investment to them and most of the time it works for them too in the long-term and almost all of them are in positive profit.

That's the issue with short-term trades, you just usually buy whatever suggested or shilled somewhere without having any information on them without even doing any kind of TA on it, and after a while if they go down you just get impatient and sell in a loss and you do the same thing with the next one until you just get lucky and buy something that will go up after you bought it thinking you're getting good at it or you're improving, not knowing at that point it's just pure luck and it's not good sustainable strategy in the long run and it will fail you miserably down the road.

Those 1% could be some big investors that throw hundred of thousand dollars into trading. For them, just 5% rise is a good profit and they have been able to consistently trade with this huge money with confidence of making profit particularly on less volatile coin such as bitcoin compare to altcoin. I still do not believe anybody will enter into trading crypto without mindset of making profit. So honestly think 100% of people that trade have intention of making profit. If you wanna trade for fun or for the love of trading chart, Demo account is there for trading  ;D. Unfortunately a lot of people that quilt early are traders that enter with little capital and set so much bogus expectations for themselves so when they try for some weeks and failed, they abandon the project "get rich quickly"

A successful trader - as lenient as it sounds but it carries a lot of warfare to get to this spotlight. Everyone expects to trade even if they can, but can't operate. One has to have a lot of patience, prudence, and adaptability to trade.1%  of traders are those who overwhelm all obstructions, survive and prolong trading.

I am pretty sure that none of the member here in the forum doesn't know who is this 1% traders who got earned a lot with trading.
However, how did you know that it was 80% of the traders gave up their trading activity here anyway? what is your basis anyway for this matter?
Then, you calculated already that 5 years from now only 7%  will remain in trading? Just asking dude.

But how would you know when you are reasonably patient, and when you are just falsely keeping the loosing position would you would better off sell quickly and invest elsewhere?


That's why the first statistic is that "100% of people start trading with the hope of getting rich" ;D




Isn't knowledge when to exit the market is the part of skill / knowledge? While in regard to whales, in the earlier comments here I provided a link to Japanese trader who started same with us but soon ended up trading millions of dollars portfolio - thus from "non-whale" to "top-whale" and that was for stocks... there the "whale" categorization is more strict as opposed to crypto where anyone with $200-500k can be considered as "baby whale".




After checking the links I believe they didn't mention anything what wasn't mentioned by the community members in the current thread - psychology, exit points, systems, strategy, patience, etc. Please correct me if I missed something?




Nope, it refers to traders overall - both institutional and retail. In fact institutional traders also don't earn that crazy lot of mony as commonly believed. Very few of them do in fact - that's survival bias - you know only the success cases. And the psychology element is easily eliminated with algo-trading (I don't mean those "make money easily FOREX/crypto-bots", but professional hedge fund algorythms).





But knowledge can be learned, and "sticking to your trading strategy" element can be automated. In these days, it doesn't take too much knowledge to develop algo-trading bot based on the parameters you want to use - there are solutions even for people with 0 programming experience.




You mentioned great point, but the conclusion is not the same with what I would make :) Those people who transform their trading knowledge into Advisor EA, bots, courses, signals, groups, etc. - they don't earn from trading though... they earn from those fees people pay them to access these things. That's a common thing actually called "if you cannot earn money with making own business, teach others how to make business" - same with trading, investing, etc. But very few people understand that and thats why keep paying for those people, who call themselves traders and do earn money, but actually their profit source is from what they sell, not from what they trade.




Why people keep asking me for research papers and sources after I provided them several times before in the same thread? ;D But okay, here it is again for everyone's reference:


And I believe you made a great point which nobody made before about "they see wall street type of people getting very rich and they want to do the same but they forget that those people deal in billions and they make very low sums of profit but do it for decades instead of few months". That's very very true!




Well that's why trading and investment are different by definition :) But nope, the research papers which I quoted above do analyze long-term traders as well. But again - traders, not investors. There's a joke actually "every failed trade becomes long term investment" ;D




Oh, you forget the biggest part of traders - people who need to hedge their risks. That's especially the majority in derivatives and in capital markets (not in crypto yet, I believe). They don't trade for profit, but just to get rid of risks and to lock in desired prices / interest rates / etc. they want to lock in, and they don't intend to make any profit (but they do occasionally sometimes). But yes, these statistics not about them at all, since it's completely different category of entities engaging in those.





Actually if you check the research papers you will see that too many people believe in this and continue to trade while remaining in negative profitability. Because they think that one day their efforts will pay off. But for some people they never do, and we don't know who will be that unlucky person.




I didn't calculate any single number I mentioned here :) I took them all from research papers which you can see above - those people who conducted their research explain in great details who, how, and when they calculated those stats. And I assumed since it's trading discussion section, here should be a lot of traders, both successful and unsuccessful, and someone could share their useful experiences. Was I wrong?

This is very true that huge number of people can't make them happy in trading and they continue. Though without this, it will be difficult for them to understand the situation when it should be done. Some people get triggered for losing money and then they again tried without proper knowledge and lost again. So proper knowledge is needed to be successful in trading.

Generally those who have a lot of good experience about trading and are the 1% traders who earn through trading on behalf of large businesses and investors. There are many good skills about crypto market. They are very good at investing in both long term and short term. It is very easy to understand the rise and fall of tokens for profit. They have the opportunity to profit from all kinds of investments. All traders need to calm their minds and observe the trend of trading.

Well, there are too many factors to consider if a good trader will remain in the trading field. Perhaps they feel comfortable with their stable income through trading. As I can see here the possible reason are, they had a good experience, they had more time to research for any new update, and most of all, they had tools upon giving technical analysis when you execute in trading. Traders that experienced a massive gain will always repeat what they have done but those who experienced losses, will never come back and think of afraid of losing money.
In trading, there could be a winner or loser, not all become a winner, and not all become a loser. Because that is a kind of competition.

You are very correct, but I believe we are back to the initial point where I mentioned that knowledge can be fairly simply learned. And then there will be psychological biases, which can be eliminated via hedging or algo-trading.




Don't you think it can be also about the instruments which they use? I believe that might play the greatest role in the end.




You touched upon a great point about tools & tech analysis :) I wanted someone to bring it up, so I could point out that it's not the case ;D With tech analysis it's known that it doesn't work at all (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient-market_hypothesis). But for the tools - that's my favourite point. I believe now as we live in the end of 2020, so many people are falsify believing that technical tools can help to profit from trading... however, my opinion is that it's false due to the currently overhyped "Tech" in every aspect... FinTech, MedTech, EdTech, AdTech, FoodTech, AgroTech, "You Name It"Tech... - just a "Tech" hysteria... But the financial elites and the top traders and investors are able to profit where you, me, and common people like us cannot profit, because they have better Financial Tools, not the Technological Tools. If I give you access to Bloomberg Terminal - you still will lose money if you trade the way you did before, and the things you used to trade. But on the contrary I can give you free Excel package, and allow trading in equity swaps, total return swaps, structured products, infrastructure assets, top VC deals, and you will see how much your returns will improve from there on :)

The only way to kbow you make a reasonable patient is when you wait till the market bullish is back and you are not selling at lost price but selling off quick to invest elsewhere is a habit of impatient and the 90% of traders with no sufficient portfolio management knowledge that make such decision are among the traders that later quit.
Meanwhile, it better to invest elsewhere using a new capital while you keep previous invest till it green again.

Yes, that's what it is and it because most newbies only read the success story of crypto investors without studying the thing they did before they are successful.

That's not the best decision either I think. It's like you invested @ $100, then it turns to $90, you want to keep waiting, then it turns to $80 - you wait, $70, $60, ... and @ $50 (for example) your position gets liquidated for instance. But you could sell @ $90 and keep the cash or invest elsewhere. Plus, there's time value of money here too.

As I mentioned somewhere here earlier a joke that "every bad trade ends up being a long-term investment".

I would simply invest the $100 long-term and forget about it... then use additional fund held in stablecoin for gradually buying dips/lows, and probably selling high. This method usually turns out profitable especially on established crypto like Bitcoin... And it's not that difficult to learn.

Its not that difficult to learn but it would really require some time for you to take grasp even on the most basic or simplest idea of it.You wont really be able to do this stuff if you dont have the slightest idea
on how its done.

I dont believe on that 1% traders are successful because we wont be seeing soo much liquidity into this market on daily basis if there are lots who do losses up in the market.

This might be only applicable on other markets when it comes to chances but not into this market.There are lots who do make money and of course loses are much more in quantity than to those
who do end up on making profits.

Important thing is that you do sustain yourself into this market in utilizing price movement for your profit making opportunity.

There is time value of money but if the coin is a well supported coin with good concept and utility there is no need to sell @$90 or $50. The best thing to do in this knd of the situation is to leave the investment and start a new one at the $50 price if have enough capital but if capital is an issue is better to sell @$90.

I think these 1% of the trader are those who have a proper financial management, who knows the difference between their assets and liabilities, who can segregate savings from investment and those who do not afraid to take risk and willing to get rekt but they will move forward and will continue to learn even they failed sometimes, I admit there were times that I don't want to trade anymore I just want to continue working and save it not to invest anymore or trade anymore but then this is just a part of the process that I need to survive.

Not difficult to learn, but hard to implement in reality. Typical example would be (I don't mean you, but the average trader) - you keep $100 for long-term, and have $100 for active trading ("gradually buying dips/lows, and probably selling high"). Then you put the second $100 into something, and price moves not how you expected. You sell (if smart, others will continue to keep - increasing the loss). Then you decide that it's time to re-enter and you are confident about that, so you take $20 from "long-term" because expect to earn $40 - enough to recover "long-term" fund + make money on active investment. Then you lose that also. Then with a strong desire to recover the "long-term" fund, you will take more risky and less reasonable bets thus magnifying your losses and faster depleting the overall fund.




True - not difficult to learn, but requires intelligence to implement correctly.

As for liquidity in the market - it's simply provided by market makers, and exchanges themselves on the coins they want to, that's why in most of the coins there's only minor liquidity. And you are correct - that research wasn't about crypto-trading, as the history of that is too short for now. But it was about all other markets. But I believe as the current crypto-traders are ex-FOREX, ex-stocks, etc. traders numbers won't be too different.




True - if you add time value of money, return will be way worse. However, most of the coins are without any utility or use - simply created for scamming people or for attracting traders. That's why it's gonna be hard to watch how the balance declines when the asset decline from $90 to $50, and you can't even sell that.





Great point! Yes, financial management, risk management are some parts which most of the people forget about and think that simply learning chart patterns will make them rich :D And the motivation is of course a great part - losses are unavoidable in the market, but being able to keep going despite of that is a valuable personal character.

I think the 1%(or whatever percentage) should applied to traders who make consistent profits betting on the price of crypto... Or people with strategies that can be overall profitable when repeated multiple times.

There are some people who have been trading for decades, and there are some people who literally do this as a business outside of crypto as well as doing it in crypto. I have a friend who is in finance world, he was in finance world before he met crypto as well and he was earning a decent amount of money, it wasn't insanely high, but it was a pretty decent and a good income, more than double what I am earning right now.

Three years ago he got involved, got a bit of help from me even though not much, and after that he got into crypto and technical analysis and things like that. He got into crypto at around 10k back in the day and had 7 bitcoins, now bitcoin is over 20k and he has over 50 bitcoins. Dude was just good, he didn't became like this by studying after he met with crypto, he was already like this for 2 decades and just used that info on crypto.

If you ask why then the answer is profits made by a trader comes from the loss of another trader so if someone is in profitable for ling run means many traders helped him to make money with their losses so the one remain long while all other left in the meanwhile condition.

I prefer not to spend all the $100 for active trading at once. Will simply keep it ($100) in a stablecoin and probably use a small part of it (maybe $10-$50) on daily/weekly basis for buying significant dips. If price continues to dip significantly, I would continue buying. When it start moving up again, I will probably start selling some gradually. This (buying significant dips & selling significant highs) repeated many times can easily earn you significant profit every month.

It’s not like everyone is steady cashing out from the market. Sometimes you’re among the 1% of those that are cashing out and sometimes you are not, it’s just knowledge and luck a lot of times.

But there are people who are making more profit , like 80% or so of the times they trade they are usually successful and these are people who have serious knowledge in trading. And as for the whales I think majority will be too busy to sit down and be trading, they are very busy businessmen, and what they do is to hire very smart people who have got the brains to do the work and at the end of the day they get their reports.

Yes, me, and other members discussed that few times above also.




Wow, that is impressive! You can definitely get his insights on what he, from his opinion does different from other people who trade. There are people who also trade for 10+ years across different markets, but persistently make losses, but your friend appears to be among those top 1%.




Yes, that's the reality. But why exactly that guy or girl would be benefiting on the expense of others for a long time, instead of another person?




That's in theory, but in practice things work out differently as opposed to our expectations unfortunately. While being humans, we are mostly irrational, therefore, no matter of how long you trade - emotions always can take over your logical thinking (for example you traded for 30+ years and everything was good, then your pet died, you found out your wife was cheating with brother, some relative got lethal disease, bad weather, etc. and all in one day. The next trading day for sure is not gonna be same with the one before that. Furthermore, if that strategy would really yield significant returns, it would be discovered by many people by now and they all would become Warren Buffets probably.




Yes, but we are talking about the ones who persistently make profits in the market, not occasionally. But for the second part of your comment, you are absolutely right.

This is the trade talk that newbies need to know that trade is not all 100% win. You win and you lose. You enter part of the 1% and improve more but maybe at time go down, either because lack of focus. A trader need a good management to always be in profit averagely than you are losing.

Because they have more patience, right decisions whike trading, controlling their emotions better than others simply they are trading better than what most people performing so they are making more out of their efforts than others.

It's very hard to say why and how they do it because if we knew, we would already have been one of them and wouldn't want to spill the secret ;) but yeah, trading requires a LOT of patience along with good market, political, economical, geographical knowledge as well as psychology of consumers and government department incharges to be taken into account to make a very good prediction of any company before investing in them and make good profits. I guess that's why the number of successful traders are so low!

True, you always will lose and win, but the 1% - the top ones are able to do win persistently. Not meaning they don't lose, but on average, with consideration of all expenses and fees, and loses, they remain profitable. While others might be thinking they are profitable, but if account for fees - they will see a different story.




We are back to the point we all discussed like 2 pages ago in the tread :D If emotions are the issue - then isn't it better just to automate trading?




Well yes, you are very correct. Once someone shares the real secret of success - everyone uses it and nobody earns anything from that onwards :D

Based on the discussion above I wonder how do you think guys:

1) Aren't there any of those 1.6% of top traders here on BitcoinTalk? Since I assumed they also would be replying and sharing their thoughts, but for now as we all see it's mostly assumptions of the rest - 98.4% of traders :D

2) How do you think, could that success be partially explained by the use of those traders of derivatives? Since it's known that derivatives do create significant returns at less risk, but the problem is that the majority of people even don't understand those derivatives, structured products, etc., so among the ones who do understand, a small group can benefit from that. Do you think this could be a reason?

There's no secret with it since they do a lot of efforts and have a good dedication to learn with it for more many years that's why by now they can manage to take the risk and earn with it with proper discipline, there's a lot of video spill over the internet to learn from and we will not ask them for any secrete if we will just learn it for ourselves.

When I went through your points, you have done a good research and I must comend you on that. When I started trading few years back. I was so enthusiast that I'm going to make really big. I have little or no experience all I had was an unending desire to start making it big time trading. That was my only mistake that you can't excel in what you don't know anything about. I made lot of mistakes in the first few months, the lost was much. I almost quit and I remember why I started in the first place. I had to go back to learn how to trade. After learning few things, even till now I'm still learning. And it has improved my trading skills

For sure they are here, they could be at any rank of account but if they choose not to join the discussion. They want to remain silent and lowkey.

Probably it's because many are still not aware and lack knowledge about derivatives. And if there's someone who knows it, he won't share it unless someone asks for it.

Good point, probably "big money loves silence"?
 

I see your point. Probably you are correct about this also. Then we could be the ones helping "the average Joe" to get the skills which is typically possessed by the financial elites. Might be good point for ads for us next year (not self-promotion) :D

Good point cause 80% of all the newly created are hype base and this is the expanse where every crypto traders need to have knowledge not only to read the chart/candle but also have the awareness of the perfect investment in the which is not hype base.
I don't trade often cause i don't like spending much time on trading but i surprised some traders usually complain they only make losses whereas in the knowledge they lack.

I Don't understand what do you mean in 1%. Many trader brake in crypto market but many Newbie join for trading. Trading is risky way but many people make huge profits.

True, and I forgot to mention such thing as "opportunity cost" like - okay you earned your 5% in active trading by spending 12 hours/day, but you could earn 3% (for example) with some safe bonds and with 0hrs. spent of your efforts. Was it really worth that?

And yes, sometimes get overconfident just because they get lucky for a specific period of time and they think it's their skill... and when the reality shows them that they know nothing about trading, they say they just got unlucky :D




The fact that you mention that many people leave and come-in just prove some of the points listed - that most of the people are not even able to stay for a long enough time. But those 1% are the ones who do stay in the trading for many many years.

The remaining 1% of traders that really make hell of money from trading are rich whales who can easily manipulates the market to make their own gains, they hardly end up in losses, their huge funds or assets is their true power

Speaking of opportunity cost, i will spend more time on the safe bonds which will yield 3% in less than one hour and this is the reason why i don't spend much time on trading in the first place.
Was is it worth that?

I guess you are right but i just dont see it as something nice because they usually dont talk about the moment of profit making but their loss.

Exactly and I agree with you.

I guess they are those traders who earn a profit using their huger capital to gain continuously in the market. Manipulating the price isn't easy I guess, but if you are one of those whales that has a huge capital, maybe you can.

Another factor that possible to consider as a remaining 1% of traders is those who are experts in trading and building up their fund just to survive in trading and gain profit. But who are they? That question we did not know because as far as I know, most traders are newbies lurking and seeking money on the internet.

not at all, we can say that those 1% are those people who are not afraid to take step in the game , they are not afraid to take risk and willing to lose in order for them to gain in the future, even we are not whales , still we can have that opportunity and use that to grow our asset.

Yes. Remaining lowkey would be the best thing while watching everyone who's also happy with them.

Good luck with that plan. That's a good initiative if you have plans for that. I'm actually not a good educator so basically, you can start with it and sharing ideas with us about that topic.

It is for sure that when a topic like that comes out, there will be people who will be eyeing it. As the usual quote about money talks, they're there to listen.

Nah, not always. You can check the story of LTCM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Term_Capital_Management), Lehman Brothers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehman_Brothers), and there are others as well - they were the whales of the whales. While also you can check Takashi Kotegawa (https://www.worldtopinvestors.com/takashi-kotegawa-investor-profile/). So whales are not the smartest people in the world ;) We all have chance.




Well there are different kinds of bonds though, there are high-yields, junk bonds (some people made fortunes trading those), and other fixed-income products (but most of them are not accessible to common retail traders actually, that's why few times I mentioned that I think those 1% might have access to something what common people cannot access?).

I'm sure there are both kinds of people - someone who will be showing off with their profit making ability and saying they are so smart, and others who will be talking about their losses and saying it's just this only time they got unfortunate. But I think there will be more people showing off their profits though.




You forgot to add "most traders are newbies lurking and seeking money on the internet, and end up selling trading courses or VIP signals and using that profit claim they are pro-traders and reinforce the cycle" :D




Great point! And the people like Takashi Kotegawa (there are others also) are great example of that. Start at the level same or lower than most people in this Community, and end up being an individual trading more than a lot of funds in the world.




Yes, and not necessarily happy with them. "Big brother is watching" - so can also be a reason for them to stay lowkey given the fact how much most of us love to pay taxes from crypto :D


Thank you for that! You will be among the first ones whom we gonna invite for those courses/lessons/videos when we make them available ;) It's at our core to help all people around the world to have the same opportunity and knowledge in the advanced financial areas as the common "financial elites", because when more people know about it - we are more equal and have same chances to benefit from it (no, we are not communists though to make everyone equal :D).

What percentage of ppl who do this full time make a yearly profit on this?  Thing is when crypto is down all year like few years ago, how did any of these traders make any money is what i want to know?  Because if everything keeps going up... its like well its hard to lose if you only buy/sell the top coins.

Trading is not easy and statistics confirm the hard truth traders afraid to accept. Everyone wants to see themselves on the winning side but the practice and trading skills are not the same for all types of traders. Long term trading is the key to be on the green side while short terms traders burn their 1000th trading account with the hope of getting a big one day. Finding the 1% profitable traders is harder than finding 99% of losers ;)

Thank you for your recommendation! No way we would just randomly throw out some random numbers :D Unfortunately when I tried providing direct links to the researches with URL links to the papers, my comment got deleted by the moderators, so I am not sure what's the issue with that :( But if you have any advise about how to edit that and not make people managing the thread delete it, I would really appreciate that and would surely edit the initial message.

And the 1% is not from the total world population actually, it's from traders who trade. If you consider number of people who actually trade - that's pretty small number (less than 0.1% of total population (I assume)). And among them very few trade persistently. And among them it's like 1.6%... so the number is in fact pretty small, but yes it's not as small as 100-1000 people in the world. But I guess you are right - those 1.6% are not here, as they are busy with doing what they do better than the rest of the world and all of us here, so all we can do is just guess, and assume.




I see your point, but I think even if everything keeps going up it's still pretty possible to lose a lot of money. Many many maaany people would short @ $20k, @ $21k, ..., @ $25k and now will short again. So just imagine how many of them are in losses who will be contributing to those stats. Also don't forget the ones who do earn in the growing market, but... they don't consider their fees, or some even don't know about them :D spreads, network fees, deposit/withdrawal fees, interest on margin accounts, interest on leveraged positions, and taxes (if there's someone here paying those on your crypto), and many other hidden things. When consider all - numbers are not that positive as people see in their terminal screen.




You are absolutely correct! But just to clarify - do you mean long-term trading, like as real trading (scalping, swing, hourly, weekly, etc.) or you mean investing? Because I think once you trade covers a long-enough time-period like years, it becomes very vague if it's trading or investing. Like, maybe I invest with 1-2y horizon based on hype, news, and short-term fundamentals. At the same time, someone might be buying in January 2020, and expecting to exit h/is/er position in Jan 2022 based on ultra-long-term tech analysis. These types of people are kind of hybrid between traders (with up to 1 month trading period) and investors (who typically expect to exit position within 5-10 years).

I'm used to the bonds trading investment but there are some crypto exchange site like etoro etc that provide bond investment and about 1% whales have access to something common people cannot access is widespread in almost all investment setting and for this not to be a subject in crypto is the reason why Satoshi market Bitcoin decentralized.

You are right but it good to count one blessing not to be ungrateful or blaming Bitcoin for their own mistakes.

They usually took profit from occasional pumps and dumps, it could be easily done if you trading short term because these pumps and dumps are like waves, there's time when it goes down but it will surely make a recover if the coin is good enough. By that, despite the bearish market they could still make some money and the rest of them more specifically long-term trader always bag holding and keeps buying when the coin is at its lowest point.

Yes, that was the main argument I was trying to make that those 1% usually can trade something what most of us cannot. Even with etoro and others, they rarely bring something entirely new or something "from elites" to the common people. This is what we are doing now :)


Yes, you are correct. Bitcoin, same with nuclear power, and just hammer - was created to solve something specific, but got/getting misused by hummanity.




Yes, you made a great point. With short-term trading profits are typically more volatile, but if you invest and wait long-term and able to survive temporary price swings then can earn better ROI and take advantage of shorter term P&Ds.

I know a lot of people who have made a lot of money trading cryptocurrencies, stocks, etc. Perhaps many people lose money on exchanges and are statistically counted among the entire number of traders, hence such a low percentage of successful traders. Such people simply act at random, or follow the general trend of investing in something, mindlessly following the opinion of the crowd. If there is a sufficient amount of reliable information that gives grounds to draw conclusions about the future growth of an asset, then the chance that you will lose money after investing is low, so you should not rely on statistics. You always need to think with your own head and constantly analyze the situation, the same is true with investments.

True, but in the current world of 21st century the amount of information bombarded at all of us from every corner is so huge, that you probably gonna waste a pretty great amount of time by filtering it out in to find out what is good and what is not. That's why most of the rich people don't even read news (at least they say so), because it will take too much time and efforts to read it all and filter for reliable sources.

These merchants exchange when it is required - when the business sectors will take an action which is huge to such an extent that it can have a colossal effect when occurred. On the off chance that you decided to be more patient and consistently control your feelings when exchanging, at that point you can be those who stay to exchange effectively after long years exchanging.

All these traders make such a huge point to talk about all the profits they make during these crashes,,, but I bet you they hide majority of the losses they make.

I personally think the only money they make is from idiots who pay for their signal subscription. It seems the only way to make money from trading is not by trading;)

Etoro is one of the reputable exchange and it will hard for people to believe you. If thats you truly plan to offer it really a good idea but I have once went through your site but I dont anything that explained as part of your activities and what I saw is you guys to be the first OTC cryptocurrency derivatives marketplace which allow the creation of new instrument. However, it not easy to trust new exchange with anonymous team lolthat offer all that you said.

That's hard to understand (not sure if it's my personal issues with ENG or I'm not the only), but I get your point and you are very correct :D You refer to patience and stability + self-control in emotions in order to avoid selling @ lows and buying @ highs when there's all this hype.




You don't need to think so... You can be 100% sure of that. This is the reality of those public "traders" who earn purely on their subscriptions/lessons/signals, and nothing more. All those screenshots & videos of their accounts can be faked without any effort, and that's what they do, and that's what common people don't know about and therefore believe them.

First of all I really want to thank you from myself personally, from the name of our CEO and from the entire team! We really appreciate that you took time to go through our website and check information about us. Secondly, this question has been asked before on our ANN page, and we disclosed part of the team on the 2nd page (here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5293103.20). And thirdly, you are absolutely right, and we all understand very well your argument - all the new exchanges that emerged recently either luck liquidity, so once you enter, you cannot get out, or simply scams to steal your deposit, or sell you useless tokens. I will address this part on our own ANN thread in order not to disturb people with advertisements who don't want to see it here, since the topic is not about this :) And last, but not the least, it's OTC only for now as the product is highly customizable to your own needs and wishes, however, in 2021 we will be launching the standard CEX which you all guys used to where you can trade standardized TVS as well, as trading OTC just whatever you personally. wish to trade. Thank you again for checking us out, and feel free to reach out with any questions you might have.

I don't think I can define myself in this 1% because I don't earn a lot :P just enough to pay the rent and some extra expenses, but I always return my investment and I can work comfortably from home. ;D
My advice is to study a very small number of the alt's in the top 25 and then decide how much to invest, diversifying the portfolio. 
Buying at a minimum and waiting to sell are the two great secrets

The trader who maintains profitable after so many years are those consistent traders that lost their money, earns money, and learning every single day when trading. Trading is not an easy job to do especially when you don't have enough courage to start and risk your money. When you start trading just because your friend is trading, I'm sure you're going to lose a lot of money.

The key for a successful trading is to study first the basics, so you'll have your foundation, and then apply what you've learned using small entries only to see if it's effective or not. If the results is good, then try to increase your bet, that's how it works.

If you already can cover your life expenses with trading profits thats already a great achievement! Most of the people who trade even for a long time cannot do even that. So congratulations to you!




True, but many people will lose their all available-for-trading capital once they enter for the first time to try it out :D

Well, we can't deny it. I also lose like 90% of my total capital in my first month or two of trading but failure is a must for us to learn. That is why it is advisable to start trading with just small capital and just add later on when you are confident in your trading skills. There is no one born a trader we all experience tons of losses before our success. All we need to do in order to be better is keep on studying and learning from your own mistake much better if you will learn from others' mistakes.

You are absolutely correct! This is part of mind-set that differentiates successful people from the failed ones. Also there's a saying "smart man learns from own mistakes, wise man learns from mistakes of others". Yet, learning here doesn't mean paying money which you could invest otherwise, for something you can get free of charge from google.