Bitcoin Forum

I see there is a small commotion taking place in a very serious thread which has been created to kindly ask all forum members promoting the 1xbit scammers to refrain from doing so because the list of victims or alleged victims continues to grow. That thread was created to kindly ask promoters of the 1xbit scammers to kindly stop promoting a known scam: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5347222.0

Unfortunately the essence of that very serious and important thread has been diverted by some forum members posting their views about the tag related to iv4n therefore I have created this thread to allow anybody wishing to have their say to have it here and leave that thread for the purpose it was created for - to persuade promoters of the 1xbit scammers to kindly stop.

If memory servers correct, so far I have gone through the first 2 pages of that thread (there are 12 pages in total for their so-called Honest Review thread) and tagged the accounts that I thought deserved it based on what they wrote. When I have time I will go through the other 10 pages and tag if necessary. If there were really honest reviews they would most probably be spotted and those that had a specific agenda of trying to get up to $30 for the so-called honest review by being biased with their review, well they would be spotted too and then appropriately tagged.

I was fairly busy tagging away the past couple of days (1xbit related and others) and received some PMs from members asking to have their tags removed and iv4n has been asking to have his tag removed too. After reviewing the original post a few minutes (https://archive.is/Ii3g6) I am on the verge of changing the tag to neutral but asking members for feedback.

Here is the post in question:


Granted I do not know iv4n and I have not interacted with him so cannot understand how he might express himself but to me parts of that post show a degree of desperation to get his $30, whereas he should have known better.

In your opinion should the negative tag remain or should I replace it with a neutral?

Iv4n just messaged me and what I bolded here is exactly what I told him. Even though he should have known better, I think it's a bit harsh for a neg tag. Give everyone in that review thread a neutral IMO as all that really happened was those that were paid hurt the scam sites pocket. Noone pays attention to those reviews, least I wouldn't think so.

It's your decision but I personally think a neutral is fine.

I don't know about that, I really don't.  I'm pretty sure a thread like the one OP linked to wouldn't show up on any Google result (at least not in the first few pages), there is a non-negligible chance that someone could find it and base their decision to visit 1xbit and deposit money there on it. 

I also think a negative trust is a bit harsh.  I have mixed feelings about tagging 1xbit campaign participants and won't do it personally, much less tagging someone voicing his opinion on that casino in a thread that asks for opinions.  That's being overzealous IMO....but JollyGood, I'll tell you: I won't complain for a minute if you keep the tag in place, because his idiotic opinion and that begging for bitcoin deem him a complete parasite in my eyes, and it'd be better if that negative trust inhibited him from joining sig campaigns/bounties in the future.

The trust system is yet again being used to control the shitposter/moron problem, just like it was prior to 2018.  I don't know if the merit system has lost effectiveness or what, but if it's not keeping the problem in check then I think we need a better solution than tagging members like this.  Anyway, I'm fine if you don't remove that feedback, JollyGood.

To be honest, no one deserves a red tag for a personal review, promoters and people giving out personal reviews are two different things. If I play on the site and am able to withdraw, I can boldly come out and give my honest opinion without minding the scam accusations against them, but does that mean I should be red tagged for telling my experience on the site? No, I don't believe so.

If you prefer to tag people for offering honest ratings, you may start here. These users were also paid for their honest reviews, so why is iv4n claiming sole responsibility?

theymos needs to explain why DT was implemented it's becoming a weapon tbh.

I don't really see the point of creating a thread to repeat what has already been said... Just in case I'll copy-quote my reply over there:

---

I have to say I'm with you on this one, Ivan.

For starters, giving a negative in September for something that happened in May... it's a bit off from my personal point of view.

To continue, the thread the comment was made into was a Review thread. Reviews can be both good and bad, and since no review was actually made in the end, the whole information from the tag is off. A little bit above Ivans' post, we can also see examplens making this exact point:


As a side note, I don't think this is a right use of the trust system. I see a distrust on your personal trust list more fitting for this situation, but that may just be my own personal observation.

TLDR; there was no review (negative or positive) so this is just a wild goose chase

---

I think it should be changed to neutral.

I know I have gone on this rant before but I'll do it again briefly here.
On this forum as of now there is no differentiation between 'trading feedback' and 'general feedback'
So, when you leave a negative or positive for anyone who you have not traded with or know actively how they trade it distorts it.

Looking at his feedback iv4n has promoted many questionable things over the years, so if we had 'general feedback' that would be a good place for a negative.
But we don't, we only have the 1 feedback. And it is supposed to be for TRADING. Does not matter what else they say or do.

If you don't like it, talk to the boss:

I appreciate the views, thank you.

Yes iv4n should have known better but the fact he continues to play ignorant and does not own up to what his real intention was when choosing those words in the so-called Honest review thread also does not help the situation. It was him that put himself in a position where his integrity could be doubted - just for the sake of a one-off $30 payment from a scam website that has too many allegations against it in this very forum.

What he failed to grasp was, at that stage all those that posted were paid so for him to stoop to a low level of ambiguity (hoping it would ensure he got paid) was a tactic that was simply not necessary. He really should have posted an honest review rather than the semi-promotion of a scam website.


Thank you for your feedback. As you pointed out the manner in which he virtually begged for the money along with the words used in the post, it was clear to see what his intention was.

Sadly I find myself in that situation again where the line between an out-and-out promotion of a scam vs somewhat ambiguous promotion - are not that blurred and applying a tag can be deemed harsh in some quarters. As you said, if the problem is not being kept in check and there is no other alternative then another solution is needed.


I agree with your view entirely about people should not be tagged for giving honest opinions therefore I think you are somewhat misguided because in the OP I stated I went through just the first 2 pages of that thread and there are another 10 or so pages remaining and I stated all those that deserve a tag (not giving honest reviews) will be tagged.

Some of those members you listed have already been tagged by me and are on my ignore list so if I decided to skip past them knowing I have already tagged them - I do not think that is a pressing matter. Having said that if you can provide me a link to show where other members have posted a tag worthy promotion or semi-promotion of the 1xbit scammers in the first 2 pages of that thread (because that is how far I have made it so far), I will tag them. Kindly allow me some time to go through the remaining 10 or so pages, I will look forward to reading your views in this thread after.

Is DT really becoming a weapon? In my opinion DT members have a responsibility to ensure they do their utmost to protect the wider members of this community and I cannot apologise for try to contribute a little amount of my time trying to lessen the number of new victims.


The point of creating this thread was to avoid the other thread being overrun with comments about whether a tag was deemed valid or not. It was mentioned in the firsts two paragraphs of the first post in this thread.

I do know how to read but I still fail to make sense out of it. You are basically doing an incorrect use of the trust system based on how you perceive things, not on hard evidence and make your own interpretation of the facts.

Asking a casino you don't trust to give some funds so that you can try it on their own review campaign is, from my point of view, not wrong. The casino did later on provide said funds, no review was ever left. There is literally no harm nor ill intention on that.

All these users (not yet tagged)posted on the 1-2 pages of the thread how can you say you didn't see it? You merited the reputable members and red tag the less privileged for committing the same crime( according to your words) I see they are all DT members and they will retaliate if you do. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5339885.0

Just check the highlighted words in the above post. Too many sentences written in the favor of the site. A neutral person who see this post and did not have any prior knowledge of 1xbit will think that it is a good legit site.

I think to be fair with everyone, ask him to return the 30$ which he received for this review to you or anyone agreed and that amount should be sent to any donations. And also he should remove this post and the the tag will be removed.

Please stop mentioning my username here, I was not kissing anyone ass when I wrote feedback about 1xbit, and I don't need permission from anyone to do that.
I don't really give a damn what any of you are going to do with tags, but with all the the passion borovichok is repeatedly using to defend iv4n, I have to wonder if he is his alt account activated only in special occasions like this to defend him.

borovichok friend feedback:

my feedback:

What do you think is more honest from this two feedback?  :D

He obviously activated an army to defend him.

---

It's Friday you all, don't you have anything better to do?

Read their reviews first before made a conclusion! You know vouching, neutral, and disapprove review right? I will classified those user based on their review.

Vouching: yayayo

Neutral: notblox1, woodie, stadus, Text, Slow death

Disapprove: DireWolfM14, robelneo, worldofcoins, bitbollo

Question : why neutral and dissaprove opinion should be tagged? only yayayo deserved to get tagged with that's review.

For @iv4n his review is neutral, but what I don't like he's somewhat begging to get money from 1xbit. 1xbit is selective scammer, he wouldn't scam the reviewer. So @iv4n deserve a neutral tag IMO.

borobichok's friend? Really :)
Asking for a few cent to test run is system before giving a full review sounds good to me

Lol. Two users looking for some cents using different methods  :)

Do you really think that my post sounds desperate?! And I asked you a few times, but still without an answer, is it fair to say that I am "Writing highly dubious and selective reviews for getting paid by scammers is unacceptable conduct" judging by this one comment?!
 

Man... really?! For $30... why the need for such words?! You don't even know me... Do you really think I am what you said after reading my comments? Can you read that post once again, I just wrote what I saw for the first time, idiotic is an offensive word, I wrote what I saw so it's my opinion in that moment... and check the next page to see my next post, don't be lazy... if you plan to judge people around!

In the end, I didn't even know I was paid for that... I just checked that address, $30 bucks still sit there! :)

This is a clear mistake... I definitely don't "Write highly dubious and selective reviews for getting paid", and this post is not even close to that! I opened 1xbit for the first time, and it was just simple and easy registration, without mail and anything and I decided to give it a try and write my opinion, without any other intentions as Jolly believes I have!

Calling me different names for silly $30 is funny... I had donations in this forum, rains in so many places... at least people I gamble around knows that, people from poker we played on this forum...

Edit:


Really? Begging? :) This is becoming hilarious...

Maybe it's really me... maybe I really sound like that, but I am not aware?! :)

Ok

If you think an incorrect use of the trust system has been applied am I the only forum member you noticed using it? The action you took in this particular case was to post in this thread and state your opposition but have you applied the same vigilance to other forum members you deem to be using the trust system incorrectly or is this only case where you have been vocal?

There is a fine line between hard facts and interpretations of facts, how one sees them is debatable and we all have a right to our opinions.

It is your opinion and you are entitled to it but here are some of us that disagree with that view.

In my opinion (and other members in this thread) the manner in which iv4n used highly selective text in order to please the 1xbit scammers in the belief it would ensure a $30 payment was not appropriate because it was viewed less as an honest review and more of a semi-promotion akin to a shill and he put himself in that position where his integrity and credibility is now being questioned.


As mentioned to you earlier in this thread:

"if you can provide me a link to show where other members have posted a tag worthy promotion or semi-promotion of the 1xbit scammers in the first 2 pages of that thread (because that is how far I have made it so far), I will tag them. Kindly allow me some time to go through the remaining 10 or so pages, I will look forward to reading your views in this thread after."


Yes it clear iv4n knew exactly what he was doing with that so-called honest review.

Are you his lawyer now?

Yes two different methods, because I registered on website send my coins, tried website and wrote honest feedback.

Neutral feedback is not when you say words like Amazing, Awesome and I like what I see.

But, I would never give anyone negative feedback for something like this.

Getting $30 bucks for:
And putting all in on red?!

Yes, I don't even try to run from that...  but calling me like that in the negative trust you gave me, using some names to describe me... you take it too far! It's not even about those $30 bucks...

Looks like you can't admit that you are wrong here!

Lol. I hate humans.

He did registered on the site too according to his words and gave his review based on the registration aspects though.

Tbh. the 1xbit site is beautiful than anyone I've seen on the forum maybe soortsbet.io comes 2nd, I won't blaming anyone talking good about the structure of the site.

Neg or Pos I don't care about what humans does. JollyGood it's Friday go have some fun

When in doubt: use Neutral.

If you have to ask, I assume you're not absolutely sure, so it shouln't be negative.

The problem here is that it is not a one to one case. If it was that, i would have also suggested for a Neutral. The issue here is that if you give him Neutral for his semi-favorable wording for the scam site, the others might also jump in and demand for the same treatment.

In this case (iv4n), JollyGood is unsure of what to do, which is why he started the topic to get opinions. Now that he has them, the majority is suggesting change to Neutral, so what's the point of starting a question thread if their opinions aren't going to matter?

Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house

Sadly your name has been dragged in to this but instead of reading what I wrote the OP about the reason to tag or not to tag members in that thread, they quoted you and others when it was not necessary.

I am also somewhat surprised at the army you mentioned, it is one thing to post to try to defend someone and another thing to act as a mouthpiece or advocate.


Loyce, good to hear from you   ;D

Actually the reason for asking opinions of the wider community was because the thread I created to request 1xbit promoters to kindly refrain from doing so, was being flooded with pro-iv4n messages and I wanted to keep that thread free from either spam or flooding: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5347222.0

I am not in doubt, for me the tag should remain but I was on the verge of changing it to neutral if the wider community thought it was warranted over the red by taking the conversation out of that thread and in to a dedicated one.


You have a valid point. What becomes more problematic here is if other posts from forum members in pages 3-10 of that thread are even more favourable towards the 1xbit scammers but demand a particular action (removal or reduction) in relation to any tag... having said that it should not detract from a separate debate about what is being said about the trust system being appropriately in the wider sense across the forum.

I am not surprised that several members in this thread have concluded iv4n was dishonest in his review which was akin to promoting a known scam and he did it with a care for any potential victims that could be affected after reading fake reviews and he did it all for the sake of a $30 payment.

I agree with this.


I seem to recall a discussion about this very topic when Yobit came back from their ban and hired a bunch of spammers to advertise their 10x promotion scam.  If I recall correctly the general consensus was that it was uncool to red-tag participants in the signature campaign.  I don't know what changed, 1xbit is no more or less a scam than Yobit.  Neither outfit has been able to attract quality participants, only sleepy alts and shitposters have applied.  The managers of the campaigns don't seem to care if their signature is worn by red-tagged accounts, so there're no repercussions for the participants other than the tag itself, and most probably don't care since their using nearly worthless accounts that wouldn't qualify for any other signature campaigns anyway.

All this business of tagging participant of the 1xbit campaign seems like a grasp at straws to me.  I get it, I'm tired of all the scams here also and if the forum refuses to ban scammers or their advertising campaigns, this seems like the only recourse we have.

But is it affective, or only leading to more drama?  Maybe someone can enlighten me?

Amazing.
Someone woke up after years of sleeping and than straight to defend unknown gambler in Reputation, oh how noble for someone who hates humans so much.

Bullshit!
It's one of the worst looking and worst working betting website I ever used in my life.

JollyGood, I must agree with LoyceV here. If you are not sure, then neutral is okay.
You opened this thread to hear community opinion, that’s a sufficient sign that you’re not sure in this case.
I saw on the Iv4n feedback's page some neutral tags for participating in similar promotions of suspicious services. He probably should think about that.

Csmiami quote my post about this campaign I will say it again. whether all reviews from this campaign are watched negatively or just those who write nice things about this casino?
shall we really measure how many sentences in favour is here, and whether there are more of them than against? and how we will determine this precisely?

For example, why user @dypper hasn't been negatively tagged because of his review?
He posted a Bitcoin address for payment of promised $30.

I am not in any doubt. I think iv4n deserves a red tag and it should stay but just for the sake of not having my thread about asking 1xbit promoters to refrain being flooded with pro-iv4n posts I created this and am willing to change the tag to neutral if the consensus shows it would be more conducive.

EDIT:

Well, the borovichok account woke up 3 weeks ago after having over 3 years of inactivity. Between April 2018 and September 2021 the account was inactive and then goes over the top while defending a member that has obviously made a dubious post for the sake of just $30. I suppose can be seen as somewhat suspicious.

At least borovichok and iv4n have the same opinions when it comes to saying good things about the 1xbit scammers  ::)

Why it is so hard to understand that giving true review and getting payment is not a issue. The user @dypper told his story how the site scammed him and told people to avoid the site. I don't know if 1xbit paid them for this review. I wished they paid him.

This is entirely different from a sugar-coated review from @ivan for the sake of money.

That was probably my 20+ posts this month :) yet humans think I woke up today to share my opinion on a case that started a few weeks ago but I only saw it now because of this thread. How noble of you, my human friend.

Lol, that's your opinion but to me I see a beautiful site worth nominating for the most beautiful gambling site of the year, I don't care about their reputations there on earth. Maybe I should ask you out on a date  ;D


You think ;D if you are comfortable with the tag lock the thread and move on my beautiful friend

Lol sleeping beauty deserves a tag for defending someone who got $30 ( dude return the $30 before you got crucified)for writing honest reviews. Haha I careless about humans. It's Friday I'm watching how Tokyo and Nairobi was killed ( crying)

You are crazy, you are literally crazy.... and if someone is honest and objective will see that in your words...

You made drama out of nothing... But you have faithful supporters as I see, they don't even read the problem they just support you.

Please be a grown up, look me in the eyes and answer my questions... don't hide like a pussy.  I really can't believe what are you writing... And some of your people.

JollyGood Is, Was and Will be a piece of shit.

AFAIK, iv4n is an hardcore gambler and plays on most of the online casino website's he comes across.

You thinking about him as someone who came there to earn 30$ show's how unreasonable and low life you are.

Best advice : ~JollyGood

Don't you think that by using this harsh language against him will make your chance of being neutral more less ?
His intention was to change to neutral initially when he started the thread but now you are taking it too far too personal that he won't change his decision.  

Change to neutral tag immediately. I insist .

I said the same a few posts above.. He is taking this too far... And his minions that are getting merits for their posts...

Am I really the crazy one here? I am asking for objective opinion after reading all the posts in this and previous topic... If I really am I will accept my negative without any complaints.. But am I really or Jolly is just biased for some reason?

---

Am I dishonest here? Why do you defending yourself like this man? Trying to compete with me in honesty? And where did you get that info that I am his friend? Too much false info on this topic... so false that is offensive!

"but maybe I will get $30 for this "the-first-look-review"... what wrong did I say for people to think that I am dishonest, or that I am begging for money... or in the worst case that I am shilling for 1xbit?!

But this poster got merit from Jolly:


So this post deserves merit?! Really?!

If I get too many "yes" answers I will delete myself from this forum! :)

Edit: Sorry, most of the free time I have is in the evening... so I had time to check some comments:


So I was kissing someone's ass with my post notblox1? And I activated my army? I sent messages to people who knows me from here to give their objective opinion... it's what I asked them, some of them know me and know what I am doing...
And you make an accusation that borovichok is my alt account... are you really ready to go that far to protect your own ass? :) what a joke you are, now we all see!

This only shows how Jolly was biased when making a WRONG decision about me... thanks to both for confirming this with your nice talk and merit sharing! :) we all see what you are doing :D this is a joke

Edit no. 2:


I sent some messages to people who know me, and they can share the PM's I sent,  I don't hide anything... I asked all of them to take a look and be objective! Some of them know me good, we had some time spent together for something...

But I didn't send messages to some people who made great posts for me.... they did it because they know me! Thanks for the support guys!

Once again I am asking you Jolly why are you doing this? Do you really think it's fair?

By the way, Jolly didn't answer my questions directly even once! :)

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

I assure you I am not crazy, literally or otherwise - why would you say that about me?

Which people are you referring to when you say you cannot believe what we are writing?


iv4n is behaving in an unacceptable manner throwing a tantrum because he and his supporters have not yet been able to achieve their goal of applying pressure on me to change the tag to neutral (but I am still open to consensus as mentioned in the OP). He has fallen to low levels of personal insults because he cannot engage in conversation or debate.

He should have owned up to the fact he tried his best to promote the 1xbit scammers without giving too much credit to them in the hope something such as this thread would not occur.

Instead of just holding up his hand to admit he was naive at the very least for selling out his reputation at the chance of getting just $30 from a known and widely accepted scam-outfit and then saying he regretted doing it - on the contrary he sees nothing wrong with the absolute nonsense of a so-called honest review he posted for which he received $30.


The trust on your iplnightrider account shows you just woke up after a long period of inactivity. It was registered in 2016 and you made 1 post in 2016. After that you decided to use this sock-puppet account to make 1 more post and you make it here defending somebody such as iv4n and you are expected to be taken seriously?

After an absence lasting over 5 years your first and only post was made today and you insist another member modify a tag?

Congratulations you have the grand total of 2 posts in over 5 years since the account was registered but your plan to use it as a sleeper/farmed account has backfired.



Who exactly are you referring to as minions? Can you name names because I would like to read their posts in an attempt to discover why you would conclude they did not deserve merits.

Thank you sir for calling me a joke... very kind of you, I am doing my best to impress.
All day I was in fear, shaking and crying so much that I had to send private messages to everyone I know in forum to defend me from unknown enemy :'(

I also said that he is your friend and your lawyer, but he can also work for 1xbit or in circus.

This is what I said:

With this I am making full stop here, and I will not reply to anyone from this topic anymore, so don't mention me again.

Thank you wasting my precious weekend time  :P

I will deal with you later, I just saw that Jolly made a nice long post! :) You are next, don't worry about that!

---

Still, not an answer to my questions... Your tag is false, I am not doing what you wrote! In any way, you can see it!


I am throwing a tantrum??? Are you serious? And why did you tag me and not Notblox1 for the same thing?! Tantrums are from your side, as you wrote me in PM: You just felt to tag me for some reason, that is biased, and there's not much about 1xbit as about you targeting me! Everyone can see that my post is not in the line with the negative you gave me! But you are stubborn...


We see your minions, you share merits with them! Do you think we are blind? :)



[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Really? You will deal with him later and deal with me first?  ;D

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/buddyfight/images/c/c0/Conan-rofl.gif/revision/latest?cb=20150612075940


Seriously you are getting more and more preposterous as the seconds tick by. I will take a break from this thread too....

Edit: I still have not got on to pages 3-10 of that so-called 1xbit scammers Honest Review thread but will do so as soon as I can and as mentioned in the OP tag any account that warrants it.

Low life! :) It's what I heard about you from a few sources...

And yes I will deal with Notblox1 later because he is your minion, throwing accusations around.... but at the same time protected from the punishment I had!

---

C'mon now... make a decision by these comments?! I am waiting?

Edit:

I think that Jolly showed how biased he was when he made his decision about me! And he is taking hard to admit that he was wrong! :) Funny thing, now he will take a break from this... the topic he started!

Jolly you and your friends offended me with your writing! You are a zero person if you don't realize what you did... it's not about that fucking $30 anymore, it's about what you wrote about me, and what some other people wrote... you started this, and now I am "preposterous"...

Could I expect anything else than you to run away?! Once again you are a joke, and all this as well..

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Quoting myself :



I even think JG should be red tagged by all the DT's here because of misleading them into false state of affairs. I have seen many innocent people pop up being a victim of his trust abuse from years.

Anyone with a couple of brain cells should easily see his red tag as being unworthy and him not being worthy of DT at all. Low life as said earlier.

You didn't finish the first page and first posts... you just crossed me, but you keep your friends safe! :)


You are not fair! And I am sure you know it... I guess karma will hit you back if it didn't already, that could be an explanation why are you doing this! :)

In that case: there's your answer! Let the DT1-voting take care of it:
If enough users disagree with your feedback, you'll drop out of DefaultTrust eventually, but at least you leave the feedback you believe is deserved. There will never be 100% community consensus on Bitcointalk.

If you believe someone abused the Trust system, you're no better if you do the same. I'd use a Trust exclusion and Neutral feedback for Trust abuse.
I keep quoting myself:

That part you quoted goes like this:


Again "pro-iv4n posts"... why posts? There was only one post... and that post is questionable:


I would like people to be objective, that's all... and give their honest opinion about this case! I think Jolly and some of his friends made some serious accusations without any logical arguments, all they have is "ONE POST" that can be interpreted in different ways, but is it really "Writing highly dubious and selective reviews for getting paid by scammers is unacceptable conduct: https://archive.is/Ii3g6"?! Does it sound like I am begging for that money, that I am a parasite?




Feelings... :)

This has actually drifted into a drama shitthread when the situation is rather simple...

Anyone that knows Ivan knows that what has happened here is not a shill attempt; but judging a situation from a distance without knowing the person and all the facts is always easier. I believe this is something we've all done at some point; it's easier to go against a nickname than a real person.

I'd also like to make a reminder that this is an international forum, where people from all over the globe come post and talk about crypto in general, and bitcoin in a more specific way. Not everyone is proficency in English here, it may not be their mother tongue, they may have only learnt it at school, etc. What may seem like an ambiguous wording of something may just be a rough translation of another, more strong language for the user. I'm no English professor to make judgments on the English level of each forum user, but when taking a decition like this one, where there seems to be a shill attempt, I'd take that into consideration too.

This has become much more than what it actually is, and I'd ask all of you to take a step back and take a deep breath; because nothing is solved when people are feeling personally attacked.

And as a matter of fact, yes, I am vocal whenever I find a situation (or the situation finds me) in which I believe the trust system is being incorrectly used. We are sometimes too trigger friendly when it comes to certain topics, and that's why some more thought should sometimes be put into them.

Hence my quote: "does this make the forum a better place?". It's not as if iv4n is chilling the scammer's signature, all he did was make a post in a topic where's it's pretty obvious already the site is a scam. So I don't see any damage done to the forum, while tagging iv4n causes real reputation damage.

But as much as I wouldn't do it myself, we can't have a decentralized Trust system without disagreeing to some tags. "We" can only make suggestions.

Yeah that's how the trust system work. Remember JollyGood had given feedbacks on all the accounts which participated in the 1xbit signature campaign and all those scammers would be waiting for this to happen.

Although i haven't changed my stance, but I think JollyGood should show a big heart here and make this neutral.

That's why one bad feedback usually doesn't make others exclude a user, but it will happen if it gets out of hand. And that's why it's especially important to leave accurate feedback.

He did the same thing to me. I think JollyGood should be more objective in thinking. I am neither with 1xbit nor against them. If you read customer reviews on every gambling site, it is always positive and negative. If we make a conclusion based on the negative review, then every gambling site on the internet will be tagged SCAM

Below are the reputations of some well-renowned gambling sites in the world
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.bet365.com
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.betway.com
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.bovada.lv
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.paddypower.com

I made my own review and even gave transaction links just to show that I am not just making reviews for the money but as an authentic user of the platform. I support and promote freedom of expression but it is a bad idea when you are trying to keep people shut just because you do not agree with their opinion. It is a bad thing.

So this is it? Prosecutor sues you, prosecutor judges you!?

For sure I am not guilty of what Jolly accused me here, that is clear... but still he took the liberty to do what he feels like and nobody can do anything about it? :)

I guess more people here think that negative shouldn't remain, but who cares about that!? What a funny story this is...

For what it's worth I don't see your red. Long ago, I excluded this particular user. Simply because I don't trust their judgement. (which is what they should have done with you, based on their opinion)
It's funny that the same thigns are still ongoing, and the same sort of "I need the communities opinion" threads pop up. It's simple, especially when it's clear the overstep taking place. I wouldn't hold my breath Iv4n, as it's already been laid out for them in clear terms by one of the few users who understands the system, and uses it accordingly with out faulter.

I'm only posting as we've interacted plenty of times and I know you'll be better off ignoring the rating and probably the user moving forward. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

We played poker for a while... did you ever saw me begging for money?! This is more than just negative for me... Jolly and his friends tagged me as a parasite who beg for money and shill for 1xBit...  for what? That post is not even near for what I am accused of here... and I didn't see any arguments from them that support their accusation!

This is not fair and I can't accept it! I simply can't move forward here with this negative mark under my name! And I can't believe that some people don't see what is happening here...

I agree with most of what you wrote, I quoted the important part but I already mentioned that in the OP. Any user could have looked at the so-called honest review and come to their own conclusion based on the assumed English language proficiency of the member and kept that issue factored in when making a decision. What also cannot be denied is there is also a responsibility on part of the person posting to try their best to avoid controversy too. What happened on this occasion is debatable with strong views on both sides.


From what I can recall we never interacted in the past so it is nice to be acquainted with you. I like the way you posted about this issue throughout the thread. Thank you for your objective views UmerIdrees.

I mentioned the following in the OP making it clear I never interacted with iv4n and do not know how he expresses/articulates himself but keeping that in mind he came across as desperate to get that $30. I am not the only one who noticed that so-called Honest Review with over the top exclamation marks and innuendo (considered akin to begging at least one member).

If those that know him by previous communication are sure that he is not shilling and that feedback was a typical style of posting by him then I have no problem in revising the feedback but for anybody including iv4n to claim others will not mistake that highly dubious so-called honest review for a shill - then they are way off the mark.

As for showing a big heart and changing the feedback, I was always open to changing the feedback to neutral if consensus dictated it and not just for this issue on the shameful so-called honest review left by iv4n but on all other issues too.

In the past I have revised feedback on several occasions either after noticing I left it in haste or by virtue of consensus. unlike what have been alluded to in the forum by certain users, asking for consensus to either edit, remove or modify feedback is sign of strength and co-operation not a sign of weakness.

There is no problem on my part to add/remove/modify any feedback I have left, therefore as soon as iv4n states his so-called honest review could at the very least be misconstrued as promoting or semi-promoting a known scam website such as 1xbit and he had no intention of doing so - I think that would be an acceptable way to end this issue because his acknowledgment of his action by leaving that review and the subsequent ramifications would warrant a neutral tag.

Regarding some other noises being made in the thread which I did not factor in to my decision to change the trust to neutral providing iv4n owns up to his error of judgement for the sake of chasing $30, I am tired of reading nonsensical posts in the forum about "hey I know you so I know you did not mean it" and "this was clearly not a shill attempt" - when it clearly is debatable at the very least and a clear shill at the worst, therefore is a matter of opinion and not as clear as they might imply. Some members claiming there is no ambiguity in the so-called honest review are entitled to their views but so is everyone else.

In short, the negative feedback for iv4n will be replaced with a neutral tag after he acknowledges his so-called honest review can be seen by others as a recommendation to use the 1xbit scam website. If iv4n declines to acknowledge his error then the tag stays at least until some more reputable members put their views forward for consideration. Those I have on my ignore list and on my distrust list will obviously be ignored and their opinions disregarded.

Once again, I have no problem at all with changing or modifying feedback but before that can happen the main protagonist (iv4n) has to accept his error of judgement for the sake of chasing $30 or reputable members have to put forward their views about which tag (if any at all) should suffice and if a sizeable majority think one way or the other I will go with that.

Considering that the account belongs to a fairly avid gamer, and as far as I understand, having a lot of experience, but not yet have any experience with the 1xbit site, he wrote the first impression. Playing on different sites, he probably knows what to compare with. For example, I'm not a gamer, and for my part, the review will sound fake, since I have no idea what gambling sites should look like.
iv4n made it clear that he was aware of the accusations against the site, so he doubts whether it is worth trying and trying at all. And since he knows what gambling sites are, assuming he doesn't waste his money, he can give a complete overview. Again, if he played on this site, then his review would have more power than a person who does not understand the casino. But iv4n honestly says that he knows the reputation of the site, but has no experience there.

Simply put, every day we are asked to express our opinion about a particular product. We can only tell you about a product correctly and honestly if we test it. And for this, there are samplers so that people do not waste money, which they might later regret.

The negative tag seems inappropriate to me here. Again. It depends on the person. This is the account of a player who has experience but does not want to spend his money.
Isn't it?

You want to know who have interacted with iv4n and their opinion? You will not need to go back too far. I have seen very fewer people to stake their money but they are so active in gambling discussion boards as if they all are born gamblers. Sorry, no offence to anyone if you are a regular poster in gambling discussion but do not risk a dime. It makes sense when I see so many activities. You are so isolated that you do not go out and enjoy a football match with your pals in the pub anymore. All these crap shows are to get in a good paying signature campaign or to prepare yourself to be in a campaign you desire to be in. There are very few people who are genuinely interested in bitcoin. This forum needs to be renamed. An appropriate name could be signaturespammingtalk.org

Anyway, about iv4n, ask those guys who were regular in the bitcointalk poker series. SWCpoker if I am not wrong. As far as I remember, iv4n was one of the nicest contestants among all of us, fuck  figmentofmyass by the way. We won multiple x of $30 and lost a lot too in different poker tables. Why the hack I am even talking about $30, is this even an amount for a poker player? So if you ask me about iv4n then I will say you are wrong about him and all these nonsense you are making because of a post/review whatever you like to call which is left by a user. What the hack is wrong with you? You are putting a bad name to DT network and I do not like it.

I do not see any warrant there, I do not see any risk there, I do not see any damage there. Frankly speaking, nothing is there to raise any alarm. I see over reaction and an approach to make an issue out of nothing, like those XRP created out of thin air. This is not good and very dangerous for the community. Last words to help you to make a decision since you asked, I do not think you even need to leave a neutral on his feedback page at all. Get it out of your head.

No, you did not. All the guys in this series (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5217547.msg53603452#msg53603452) can confirm it including few common names I remember who are Betwrong buwaytress cygan efialtis Steamtyme SyGambler tyKiwanuka Murat yahoo62278 johhnyUA 1r0n1c Trofo morvillz7z cryptofrka Hhampuz

Usual threat a filthy and corrupt person would roam around with.

Even your neutral is meaningless here by looking at the gambling history of your so called "protagonist" and your made up stories of being an genuine person.

Clear example of where DT already is with people like you and who trust you still.

Does my post really sounds like I am "desperate to get that $30"?! Why are you pushing this, it's not true, read my post again and show me why would anyone think like that!?

Also check the next page, my next post where I quoted Yahoo and Notblox... Also, check the address, I didn't know I was paid until a few days ago, that money still sits there! So I am so desperate to get $30, but I didn't even touch them after 5 months?


Read my post again...

And it was the first look review, why dubious, why so-called? I opened this specific casino, I checked what they have, I wrote what I saw and what was interesting to me... stated that will try the casino if I get the money! I didn't even know I got the money, so I didn't even try it... I didn't write more about it! It's honesty, I wrote/write what I really do, what I really think... again, check the address for confirmation!


You hit the point, this is exactly that:


This is one of the PM's:

I have no problems admitting when I am wrong and apologizing for my mistakes... but again you are saying "for the sake of chasing $30"... and now you want me to admit my "error of judgment" and to admit that I am a begger and parasite for $30? This can't be funnier Jolly...

Once again I will be the one who is pointing the facts:


It was just one post, so negative about me is wrong... I am sure Jolly would found more posts, I bet he was looking for that... but at the same time he forgot that we had interactions, I quoted him a few times in the past 6 months!


If this is dubious and selective, shilling for 1xbit, crying for money, looking desperate to get $30... then I am the crazy one here!

I can admit that I am full of vices, I do gamble a lot, I am a drinker and smoker... and I enjoy all my vices! I don't have problems with honesty, because I try to speak the truth always, here and in real life, I speak from my experience and from my mind! Some people with whom I spent time gambling and playing various games can tell you! And what you did Jolly here is that you accused me more than just for shilling for 1xbit, you accused me that I am desperate for $30 and that I am a person who begs for money, some of your friends gave me even worse nicknames...and it's what you repeat through all of your posts, and that is simply wrong! You made a wrong judgment about me and maybe you should think about apologizing to me for that... later we can discuss my post and is it really a shilling for 1xbit! Is it "Writing highly dubious and selective reviews" or is it just one post!

With JollyGood, I think it's already gotten out of hand at this point.  I would suggest that anyone who has him on their trust list review his sent feedback and question whether there are enough wrongly-left ones to justify an exclusion.  In my case, there are just too many, and that was before his tagging of RapTarX and Little Mouse.

The consensus on the forum is that 1xbit is a complete scam, and I agree with that.  And while I don't tag members who participate in campaigns/bounties that advertise scam services, I have no problem with members who do.  It's harsh, but I do believe that there was discussion before the tagging started and warnings given out (though I'm not sure about the latter).  Members who continued to advertise for 1xbit after all of that deserve what they get IMO.

And as far as your statement about not being able to "move forward" on the forum: grow up.  Moving forward most likely means joining whatever campaign or bounty that'll accept you, and I doubt you're going to get much sympathy for that sort of plight.  Also, life isn't fair.  Get used to it.

You already wrote something, don't forget about it:


Moving forward on this forum with this red tag is unacceptable for me, I will not be able to feel comfortable writing anything if someone marked me as an "idiotic opinion person who begs for money around, a parasite that is shilling for $30!"

And now be honest and truthfully and check my history and then judge! As I said, and I will repeat it, that $30 still sits there... It's how "DESPERATE" I am for that fucking $30.... What Jolly and you are saying doesn't have a base, you are totally wrong and it's hard for you to accept it as it looks like...

And you offended me "The Pharmacist"! As Jolly did! And as I said, it's not even about that post anymore... it's about you tagging me for something imaginable in my mind!
If the community really thinks I am guilty and that I am wrong here, that I am what you and Jolly are saying I am... I can only bend my tail, to apologize for my actions and remove myself from here!

Edit 1:

I already explained... moving forward on this forum with this red tag would be against my character, what can I write honestly anymore ever again after this? You attacked me directly, as I said it's not even about that ridiculous post that can be interpreted differently! We can discuss that post, but you said some things about ME! And that is not fair, you judged me too quickly!

Kids are sleeping, a dog is fed, the wife is satisfied... I am drinking beer and smoking cigars! I can grow more, I know, and I hope I will, in many ways... but all that has nothing with this forum and this situation! I simply can't stand still while some people tarnish my name like this!

Edit 2:


I live in Serbia... 2 wars in my life, bombs, and hyperinflation, drug wars, and whatever we have now in this "to the bones corrupted country"... you will tell me that life is not fair!? Once again you are judging before knowing all facts... probably like Jolly did when tagged me for that post and calling me all those names for silly $30... it's funny...

That sounds like a you problem more so than a me problem, if you know what I mean.  And unless JollyGood chooses to remove that feedback, you don't have a choice in the matter.

You're responsible for your own feelings, dude.  I spoke my mind honestly, and your reaction to it is none of my concern, as you're a crap shitposter who was already on my ignore list.  Also, I didn't tag you.  I don't think you know the definition of that word in the context of the trust system, so it'd be best if you learned it.

Did you fight those wars?  Did you get bombed?  How were you affected by hyperinflation?  Did you get caught up in drug wars?  Those are false arguments unless you were affected by them personally--and don't even bother answering those questions, because I don't know you and wouldn't trust anything you had to say anyway.

And yes, I'm telling you that life isn't fair because:


Bitching about negative feedback on an internet forum being unfair clearly indicates that you're not at all familiar with real unfairness.

LoL, not to offend you but,

You don't know shit about how a person feels when he is being slandered on the internet along with his reputation being squashed without solid reason's.

This is unfair after all.

Why did you join the conversation in this case? Why did you judge me without any reason? Did you just follow Jolly's example here, without using your brain?


You spoke your mind honestly and I am not? Why do you feel a need to write that stuff? To call me an idiotic parasite who begs for money? I am OK with my feelings, but what you are doing here is not fair, accusing me of something ridiculous!

I never run from the truth! I can be a crap shitposter, I learned everything by myself, by trying things I never did, reading and reading... I know that my English is far from perfect, but I am trying to improve myself as much I can with what I have! I never denied (and you can see that in some of my posts) that my knowledge in some areas is superficial! But I never claimed I am some expert, I know what I know and I write about that honestly, with simple words as I understand it!

If you think there's a better word for what you did then teach me!


You see... you wouldn't trust me why? Because I am a dishonest idiotic parasite who begs for money? :) And now explain me how this is not tagging someone, and tell me a better word for that...
I will let you do the math, check my profile and how old I am, then check history and you will see was I affected by these personally and directly, and try to imagine in how many ways indirectly!


So you think I should accept my new title as a dishonest person who cries for money around because life is not fair, because you spoke your mind honestly, and your reaction to it is none of your concern?!

I am not bitchin about the negative, I am defending my name! And you don't know me, but you took the liberty to say many things about me...and as you said, you don't know me, but you can judge me anyway, right!?


That's the point, without solid reasons they are throwing false accusations against me... and that is not fair! Simple as that...

The history does not count as only a one incident is enough in the court of Law, but having a good history does make your case strong.


If you admit that you had some intentions of getting the money when you wrote the review, you will be remembered as a honest person.

Now here is what you can do.


You had got the coins but you still did not play. Go play with those coins and share your honest review again.


Lets resolve this by peace.  :)

I wanted to resolve this peacefully days ago...

I can admit that I had intentions to get those $30 and to spend them like I always do with the "free money"! But to admit that I was desperate and that I am someone who begs for money is something I can't accept! After all, that money still sits there, that shows something, right?

I don't know why Jolly doesn't admit that he overreacted here, without knowing all the facts... numerous people wrote their opinions, and I think there's nobody here who totally agrees with him about this!

I agree that the negative is too harsh and think it should be changed to a neutral. From a trade risk perspective, the review he left poses minimal damage, seeing as how there's already a bunch of warnings about 1xbit in that specific thread (and elsewhere).

He also writes posts that some people seem to enjoy and is known in the Gambling section.

Should DT be tagging members for leaving anything other than negatively-worded reviews for what are in all likelihood scam services?

Sometimes yes if the scam element is obvious, however, it someone realizes what they did wasn't worth it and is unlikely to do it again, I think the negs should be removed or at least downgraded to neutrals.

One question I have for @iv4n is: would you do it all over again if given the chance?

Bear in mind I have no moral judgment about you either way, that's not what this should be about anyway.

I write from my mind, and I wrote this specific post from my mind, like all others! I still don't understand how can someone see this post as "shilling for 1xbit and chasing for money"!? That was an honest post and I wrote what I felt at that moment, yes for some possible reward that will be spent on fun and trying the site that many people marked as a scam, what I wrote at the beginning of that post! At that time they got a new manager on the forum, they wrote they will pay more attention to accusations and solving them, so I decided to open the site for the first time and check it...

I have no problems with my post but looks like I should be a lot more aware of scam accusations around (and there are plenty of them for almost all services) and act accordingly! So before writing my own opinion and about my own experience, I should mention all scam accusations around and possible risks when dealing with a specific service!

I have been accused of something I am not guilty of! Even you wrote "the review he left poses minimal damage", is it minimal or no damage at all! How this one post can be "Writing highly dubious and selective reviews for getting paid by scammers"? Why it's dubious and selective... anyone can open 1xbit and will see they accept many coins and they really have an incredible choice of games... as a crypto gambler, I am attracted by that!

Jolly I think you should really stop this drama and change his negative feedback to neutral, that was also suggested by majority of DT members here in this topic including me.

We can all agree that his post for 1xbit has zero value, but I think that he learned his lesson and he will think twice before writing something similar in future.

He has mentioned he sees nothing wrong with his post but also says that he should have been aware of scam accusations so that is a much better position he is in now than before therefore the feedback will be changed to neutral.

It is nice to know you reflected on this and are aware that your posts can have an impact. Thank you iv4n, the feedback will be changed to neutral.

I hope he has learned from this experience, it certainly seems he has from what he wrote.

Thank you to all who commented in this thread, I appreciate any input regardless of where you stood on the issue. The feedback will be changed to neutral therefore it is time to lock this thread.