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Everybody seems to assume that there are only two positions for vaccination. This is not true, but there are two extremes. In between there are some other views. There is the "my body, my choice" bunch, but this is a bit emotional and mindless in my opinion. My stance is a bit more reasoned in my belief. I believe that vaccines are a preventative measure, and not a cure. They should be used as an advance safeguard if one is likely to be exposed to infection, but should not be used as a cure. Once a disease becomes endemic in a population, all vaccines will do is to disrupt and overload the immune system, and their use will just encourage a virus to mutate. If a person has a weakened immune system, then the last thing you want to do is to overload it with a new infection. It is far better to attack the virus directly with methods such as monoclonal antibody injection. One should also try to  work with the natural defences. These include -

- Don't stay indoors, but get out into the sun to boost your vitamin "D"
- Let your body get rid of the pathogens by not wearing a mask, and not taking pharmaceuticals to suppress symptoms that are nature's way of fighting the disease.
- Get out and exercise in the fresh air.
- Interact with people to avoid depression

You may notice that my suggestions are directly opposed to government guidelines,  and, on reflection, you may realise that the government doesn't want you to be healthy and recover from the disease quickly. It is in their interest to keep you dependent on their synthetic health system, and to carry on the associated wealth transfer that distracts you from the other changes that are being introduced.

The number of variants that arise is proportional to the amount of the virus in circulation. Vaccination reduces the number of variants.


There is no medical reason to not wear a mask. By refusing to wear a mask, you contribute to the spread of the virus. By refusing also to have a vaccine, you contribute to the spread of the virus. You are actively encouraging the rise of new variants by increasing the chances of catching the virus and then infecting other people. By refusing to take the vaccine you are also working to prevent herd immunity, and so increasing the chances of this becoming endemic (although this now seems an inevitability in any case).


I agree in part with the government (certainly in the UK) being interested primarily (I might even say exclusively) in the transfer of wealth from ordinary people to themselves and their Eton cronies. But to do this, they need the economy fully open and working. They don't want businesses closed and lockdowns in place, they want the taps fully open again, and the old tried and trusted system fully restored.

I'm not sure where you get this information, but lets look at the way I came to my uneducated conclusion.

I'm an ex mainframe systems programmer, so I tend to have an enquiring mind, and I like to get to the root of things. Corona Viruses have been around since the 1930s, and there haven't been many variants until fairly recently, now we suddenly seem to have variants almost every day. So I wondered what was causing this. This led to to try to discover the way that viruses replicate amongst other things. Viruses don't have a sex life, but nature does need to find a way to encourage them to mutate and cope with attempts to destroy them. There is a fairly simple process to allow this. A virus doesn't create a complete clone, but builds half of a new virus, and then goes away. The  second half of the new virus is crewated by a different virus ( or possibly the same one). If both viruses are of the same strain, then the new virus will probably be a clone. Of course there may be errors, but there is a good chance that these will be non-viable. If a cell contains more than one strain of a virus type, then the second half combined with the first half will create a variant. Vaccination creates different strains of the virus, and is focused solely on the spike protein. Natural selection will tend to give preference to variants with modified envelopes that can avoid selection based on a simple spike protein check. Natural immunity will check all 28 of the proteins  on the envelope, and this means that variants are more likely to be detected and destroyed.

This is the reason that all previous medical advice states that vaccines should be used as a prevention and not a cure. They should not be used where a virus has become endemic. This is the first time when this advice has been ignored. Also, medical opinion advises that vaccines are not needed where strong natural immunity is present. Again, this is the fist vaccine that goes against this advice.

It is obvious that vaccination against Covid has nothing to do with health, and everything to do with wealth transfer and population control.

First, thanks for conceding that you're not an expert. Neither am I. Neither are most others in this forum. But not everyone admits that. The basis of my point above is that a variant is simply a copying error. The more instances of copying there are, the more variants will be produced. The more of a virus there is in circulation, the more variants will arise. Some worse, some not so bad, some not viable at all.


They were around for a long time before they were identified. And there are plenty of variants of common coronaviruses... it's just that they're not a concern if not deadly. A variant is simply a copying error. The reason there are so many viable variants of Covid-19 is that there is a lot of the virus in circulation.


I will not deny that vaccines exert selection pressure on a virus. But this isn't as important a factor as the amount of virus in circulation. If vaccines reduce the amount of virus by providing immunity and reducing spread (which they do), then this vastly outweighs any selection pressure they exert. Consider antibiotic resistance in the case of bacteria... it makes sense not to administer antibiotics for trivial reasons, but no-one is suggesting that we stop using antibiotics entirely. Besides which, even if vaccines did exert a considerable selection pressure, it's a two-horse race... vaccines are modified to combat new variants of concern, as with the annual flu shot.


There is no strong natural immunity. This is a novel coronavirus; it has not been encountered before. There is no pre-existing immunity. The two routes through which an individual can contribute to herd immunity are a) take the vaccine, or b) catch the virus. There's no third route.


I agree that in our country the Tories are interested in exploiting the population for their own gain. But the system has been set up this way and has been working fine for them for a long time now. They don't need to wreck a system that is already rigged hugely in their favour. And population control is irrelevant, it controls itself in time, the five stage demographic transition model is well understood.

Any kinds of vaccine,there's a changes ,when they inject to human,every vaccine need to test what is the reaction,so they can check what is the ability that,VACCINES to human.There's different effects to human and causes,depends to individuals status of there body situations..if one person can manage itself that vaccine.

The issue of vaccination is not bipolar but can manage the condition of the human body itself. If any issue does not work after receiving the vaccine, the physical condition is maintained the vaccine does not bring any activity it is the result of frustration bipolar is a type of mental illness people with bipolar disorder lack confidence and sometimes become overconfident. Many people also have nightmares in this disease bipolar is a bad condition which lasts a long time.

Except, of course, when people take  the time to peruse Open VAERS (https://openvaers.com/) and all its CDC backup data. Then they see the almost 2 million deaths from the Covid vaxxes, and the millions of other health problems the vaxxes create.

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It's been pointed out to you many times, by me and by others, that this is a scam website. But here we go again...

https://www.logically.ai/articles/california-woman-anti-vax-site-openvaers

Even if you do at some point manage to find a site that reports impartially on VAERS data, it's hardly evidence of anything, given that VAERS is a self-reporting system. I've explained this to you before, too. But as we're regurgitating previous conversations that you may have "forgotten", let's have that quote again:

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

it's really scary to read something like this in 2021.

I believed the antivax discussion had been dropped in the early or mid 20th century.

After eradicating polio measles and so many other stupid diseases that used to kill people...

but nowadays they even believe in flat Earth, don't they?  ::)

People don't seem to be addressing the main point of this thread. It is that there are not just two positions - vaccination or vaccination opposition. Measles, mumps and other diseases are referenced, but nobody points out that medical opinion states that vaccination is not required if a person has recovered from a prior infection. It admits that natural immunity is as good, or better, than vaccination. Covid is the first disease that is being promoted by governments in contradiction of this fact. I genuinely believe that I have strong natural immunity, and because of my lifestyle and age, I cannot afford to risk vaccination which research indicates that it will reduce my immunity, and will expose me to short and long term health risks. I'm not anti-vax, but I believe that vaccines should be tested comprehensively, and the result made available for public scrutiny. Also, I believe that adequate should be given to those administering them. For example, many of the vaccination failures may be the result of a failure to aspirate the syringe before pressing the plunger.

Agreed. Someone who sees things in shades of grey rather than black or white generally has a more considered perspective.


Yes, I don't think this is in dispute.


Well, not really. Your route to natural immunity is to catch the virus. If the virus can be fatal, it is preferable to take a safe, proven vaccine. Quite apart from the fact that if you catch the virus, you can spread it to others.


But if it's not proven, then it's simply belief, which may be flawed.


It's not suitable for everyone. This is why there are screening questions. Even so, there is I suppose in theory a very small chance that you have an undiagnosed pre-existing condition, which means you're not suitable. In such instances the vaccine can cause problems... but it's highly likely that for such a person catching Covid would have caused more severe problems.


They have been, they are. It's understandable that the vaccines are released quickly given a global pandemic, but they have still completed the standard trials process, and data are available.


The people administering the vaccine must be properly trained, yes. Not least so that they accurately identify those who shouldn't take the vaccine.

Of course that natural immunity exists - there is general non-specific immunity, which is used against new viruses. If something like this wouldn't exists, every new virus will exterminate whole mankind.



Of course there are many reasons. I have some specific medical issues, which gets much worse in wet environment and wearing masks get it worse. Psychological problems exists too (these are medical issues too). Wearing mask for a long time is not natural, because people just had to breath...

I wrote a post to you in another topic, but you didn't answer. Why do you blame anti-waxers, but don't agree with contribution of pro-waxers to other issues conjuctive with covid restrictions?

in short: you afraid of the injection.

No, doctors don't say it will lower your immunity. Maybe some weird blog becarefulpatriots.com says that.

WHO recommends that everyone get vaccinated. They're scientists, science works with consensus, based on studies. You don't choose to believe the doctor you like the most. This is opinion, not science.

There may be contraindications for a few people, very few. But basically those who refuse to be vaccinated harm the collective; selfish people who just don't care and put their fears above everyone else, sadly.

For the overwhelming majority of people, they should get the Covid vaccine (and most other vaccines). But it should be their choice to do so. Government mandates are wrong and are not going to convince many people to get the vaccine.

In order to increase confidence in the vaccine, the costs (potential side effects and their prevalence) should be clearly disclosed, along with the chances of preventing various types of instances of the disease it is preventing, and the potential negative outcomes for people who are unvaccinated and catch the disease it is preventing. This information can be customized for an individual’s specific condition. For almost everyone, the above information will indicate the person should get the vaccine, but again the individual should be the one to decide.

For Covid specifically, if you don’t get the vaccine, you are almost certainly going to get Covid.

The description of how vaccines work in the OP is incorrect.

General innate immunity doesn't make you invincible. Many people have died from Covid. The way to achieve immunity to Covid is either catch it, or take the vaccine. There isn't a third option.



I should have been clearer. I meant specifically in response to Jet Cash's argument that wearing a mask is counterproductive, and that no-one should wear masks. You are of course correct that sometimes people cannot wear masks for medical (including psychological) reasons.



Apologies, I either didn't see it, or else was too focused on responding to someone else. As for blaming anti-vaxxers, I have yet to see valid data to support their arguments, whereas there are mountains of data to refute them conclusively. Whilst Jet Cash is right that people are different, and certainly anti-vaxxers aren't all the same, many anti-vaxxer arguments are faith-based rather than fact-based. Their position is in direct opposition to all the evidence. I'm not sure what you mean in your second point "don't agree with contribution of pro-waxers to other issues conjuctive with covid restrictions" - please could you clarify?

Many people died, but many people also hasn't any symptoms. Isn't it because of this general immunity?



What is the data supporting pro-waxers arguments? Those data comes from people directly motivated by finance income. Is those data reliable? Lets say it directly: politicians lied to us lots of time, how can I trust to them? So pro-vaxxers arguments are based on faith, that politicians do not lie.

To the last sentence. The gov restrictions has some negative effects (individual psychological condition, economy, education, individual bussiness, employment...). I thing (based on your argumentation), that pro-waxxers (or generally pro-gov-restrictions people) contribute to these issues by obeying government. Isn't they?

This discussion point started on Jet Cash's assertion that vaccination was unnecessary. You are saying that some people have been exposed to Covid, and yet experienced no symptoms. Yes, agreed. You are also saying that many people have died from Covid. Yes, agreed. So why is vaccination unnecessary?



The vast collection of data from ourworldindata is available for download here: https://github.com/owid/covid-19-data/tree/master/public/data
The list of sources is available here: https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19

It is not a question of faith in politicians. I have zero faith in politicians, and I don't trust our government at all. My background and expertise is in science and data. I look at the data.



I started working from home and taking distancing precautions whilst our government (UK) was still insisting Covid wouldn't be a problem. The data from Italy and Spain were clear, yet the fools in charge don't understand (or willfully misunderstand) the data.
Similarly I still wear a mask when I'm out, but our government have said they're no longer needed.
It is not a question of pro-vaxxers blindly trusting government.

Is your issue with the Covid vaccines in particular, or with the concept of vaccination in general? Historical data for smallpox and polio as two examples from many, are perfectly clear.

Always blows my mind that people don't realize that the greatest threat to safeyty are the people who promise safety.

Lol :D Masks work, eh? Document this https://www.bitchute.com/video/rlWESmrijl8Q/.

Then document the dozens of of videos here https://www.bitchute.com/channel/okiFK5CwQrZS/ that show what's really going on with masks.

And if you want to see the danger of masks... https://www.bitchute.com/video/ypLjmXQoLygi/.

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Yeah, Good for people living in rich country but very bad for those 3rd world country that continuously buying this vaccine and just following what leader country move. Virus are already mutating in different variant right now so this vaccine will just make things work in the long run if people don't develop antibodies to kill this virus.

I agree on @Jetcash suggestion btw, with some minor addition like social distancing in public.

I want to say, that it is not true that generic immunity do not help for covid. The fact that some people died for covid doesn't mean that we should spend lots of money to vaccination for everybody, exactly like in the case of flu vaccines. There should be consideration of pros and cons.


How can you know that science data is not fake? It happened lots of time in history, that science data was custom-made for political purpose. I worked ten years in public university, science is funded exclusively on the basis of nepotism. I don't want to say that the situation is everywhere the same, I just wondering, why politicians in our country still have to lie and scare, when they have clear science data to persuade people rationally.


So you are going above the scope of restrictions. Don't you mind that these restrictions caused collapsed economy? Don't you feel little bit guilty that you participate to cropper bussiness of some people?


I am not anti-waxxer in general. I am just actual situation anti-waxer, because of:

• politicians abused whole covid situation to tighten their power over people;
• politicians abused whole covid situation to steal public money;
• I don't think covid vaccine will help (much), just like in case of flu;
• covid vaccine is not well tested compared to other vaccine, testers should get paid for this;
• covid is not so deadly big deal, making expensive show is not worth of it.

Pro: 4.5 million people have died from Covid so far. A vaccine might be a good idea.



We are not talking about an individual paper or data report here. There are huge, independent datasets from most countries in the world. And not just from governments, but also from universities and professional bodies. Do you really think this is all fake? Why would it be?



This question makes me angry. I'm unable to respond without detailing how I feel about anti-vaxxers and their behaviour, which would create a lot of tension in this thread, and likely end the discussion.



Politicians will likely try to exploit any situation to their own advantage. Doesn't mean the underlying situation isn't real.



Which data are you basing this opinion on?



Well, that's conclusive evidence, thanks. I've changed my position entirely as a result of your devastatingly insightful and painstakingly detailed arguments.  ::)

Something like 96% of the U.S. figures died of something like massive head trauma from a motorcycle accident, or a corpse from the hospice system which was tested positive in after-death PCR tests.  Tests which are themselves designed to give false positives and not fixed in almost 2 years now.

So, by order-of-magnitude sanity-checking, (4.5x10^6/.04) X 8x10^9 is around 0.0000225 or 0.002% of the worlds population succumbed to the 'deadliest pandemic in a century' in the last couple years.  And that's even before correcting for a lot of the obvious fraud.

See; even the official number pumped out by the perps don't make anything to panic about.  It also aligns well with what I am seeing.  Basically nobody I know has had any 'covid-19' problems in over a year, but around 20 people I know of within a couple degrees word of mouth have died within a week of the injection.

Again, please take note that anyone who dies within about 5 or 6 weeks from the injection will be labeled 'unvaccinated' in most places.  Also, in at least some places, people who die three or more months after their last injection.  We only know this because the criteria for labeling was accidentally leaked to the public.  It's since been memory-holed, but sharp people back up information like this when they spot it, and it's still not an smooth path to get things deleted off archive.org (but it is happening more and more...starting right after I made the mistake of making a relatively significant donation to them...Arg!)

I appreciate that, unlike some anti-vaxxers, you do attempt to present a decent argument. However the problem here is that you are making a statement that is entirely unsupported by evidence. Do you just pull '96%' out of the air?
Regardless of official reason for death, it is quite clear from data made available from around the world (not just a single source), that there has been a huge increase in deaths from any reason recently, and that this coincides exactly with the Covid pandemic. We can't attribute this to motorcycles or to something strange happening in hospices.

https://i.imgur.com/jHpmJi6.jpg
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=table

https://nbc-2.com/news/2020/08/31/cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-u-s-had-contributing-conditions/ (https://nbc-2.com/news/2020/08/31/cdc-report-shows-94-of-covid-19-deaths-in-u-s-had-contributing-conditions/)

It's hard to argue that corp/gov tried any less hard to depserately keep the plandemic panic going since that time, so going with a 95%-ish number would produce a workable estimator for order-of-mag work.  And, due to the figures you snipped, even if you are going to take corp/gov estimates at face value, the number changes from 0.00002 to 0.0002 and the arg remains the same.


I live in a certain English speaking SE Asian country, and the tricks they pull to pad the numbers are completely shameless.  There are fewer people here with the sophistication to spot the fraud so it seems, or if they do, they tend to keep their mouths shut about it.  Reminds me of the American War in Vietnam where someone tallied up the number of 'dinks' killed while 'our boys' were out on patrol, and it exceeded the population of the country.

I don't trust the data and definitions 'ourworldindata' uses.  They have all this 'sustainability' crap meaning they are great-reset fruadsters, and the funding demonstrates this too.


To we who study this stuff, these are exactly the people implementing and funding the plandemic in order to usher in the Great Reset or 'Fourth Industrial Revolution.'  It's the same people who got their positions of unimaginable wealth and power during the last few monetary systems, and they want to hold onto what they got, or preferably use the monetary system collapse to get a lot more.  Classic 'order out of chaos'.  These 'altruistic foundations' are just their ways of enjoying their hobbies (usually eugenics) tax-free.

The web entity is probably partially about data fishing on user actions to a degree, and the graphs that are generated are usually incomplete and skewed by the algorithms (or simply crappy coding at best.)

While I am strongly for vaccinations, I cannot condone forcing people to take a vaccination that was created on an asap basis with no long term studies. As long as you waiver your right to a hospital spot in the worst case scenario, whether or not you catch the disease should be left up to you. That is what I believe. Forcing people to take a medication is just plain wrong. And it goes against the democratic principle. We don't all live in communist China!

As do the people who took the experimental gene therapy under EUA.  Some of them still get to go to the hospital, but usually get kicked right out onto the curb when it becomes clear that there problems are a gene therapy injection adverse effect.

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I really hope that what comes out of this mess is 'private' member-only certifying authorities for doctors and other health professionals so that the AMA has some competition.  Badecker talks about this in his soveign-citizen-ish way.  PMA I think he calls it, and there could be something to it.

It's a stone-cold fact that I select doctors specifically because they were kicked out of the corp/gov sponsored medical organizations (or will be when I need one.)  I simply would not trust any doctor who practiced in such a manner so as to maintain membership.  Or at least my trust would be greatly diminished.

A big problem is that the racketeering is such that one cannot write prescriptions without being a member of the racket.  Hopefully that will change.  A silver lining to the 'new normal' is that rich and connected people will have the same needs as I do, so maybe there is a chance to unroll some of the elements of the racket just enough so that they get what they want/need and I can tag along.  The AMA and other socialized medicine can then just manages the eugenic program swamp-doctors.

There is still the fact that millions more people than normal have been dying of something during the last 18 months, with a spike coinciding with the start of the pandemic.



I can't really comment on the specifics of a country I know nothing about. But these data are coming out of almost every country, with the same pattern again and again. Quite apart from anything else, I doubt that politicians are sufficiently competent to devise and maintain a cover-up on this scale, particularly one involving countries that are mutual antagonists.



I agree that the system is set up to favour the established elite, and to enrich and empower them at the expense of everyone else. They would have no reason to sabotage a system that is working perfectly for them, that has been fine-tuned over centuries. If a system is stable, established, and working exactly as you want it to, then you have no incentive to sabotage it by gambling that you can replace it with something even better. And even if a couple of people wanted to risk that, could you really imagine them obtaining a consensus, swearing everyone to secrecy, and this plan actually all holding together?

     Being in a small city where the cases have been surging, I can testify how important it is to get vaccinated and to follow the health protocols along with all the other preventive measures. Of course I can sympathize on how much of a hassle it is to actually do and abide to all of the preventive measures but still, it is harder to be hospitalised and suffer severe effects of covid, specially in place such as here where the resources are limited. People are dying on the road outside hospitals and on its hallways. Still, I cannot persuade everyone but if at least I can save some by sharing my experiences, I'd be satisfied. Hope everyone is safe and healthy.

WOW you really know good scientific sources! Nature? naaaah! "bitchute"  ::)  

ROFL

Bitchute is just a generic video hosting platform which doesn't censor material as much some of the others.  Youtube, Facebook, etc don't allow material which could cause 'vaccine hesitance'.  For instance, you cannot report that a family member died following injection.  The validity or accuracy of the material in the vid is not a factor.

Many people, and especially people who have something to say which is unpopular with the current power structure, use multiple of these smaller hosting services.  Roll around n the floor laughing all you like, but the joke is kind of on you if you cannot get the concept here.

How much is it in relative %? Not much, hm? A vaccine might not be a good idea, when we consider all cons, including fact, that nobody knows if it will work just a bit to future mutations.

Because of money and power like always.

So you are angry? I am so sorry for that - it must be very depressing, when someone shoot with your own weapon, isn't it? Let me show you some of your posts from another similar topic.

So you see it yourself. You are talking about consequences of inaction for anti-waxers, considering them as responsible, but you are angry when someone talk about consequences of action for pro-waxers and you considere discussion as finished. Isn't this behaviour strange? Doesn't we call it hypocritical? Do you even try to thing how could other people who lost their jobs and bussiness feel and live because of your action?

Yes of course. But it doesn't mean that it is enough to consider just one aspect of whole situation. And it doesn't matter that we have to participate on the political game.

On the fact that vaccine just cannot have job done on fast mutating RNA virus just like in the case of flu (similar virus). I have no data, because I didn't do any research - I am not scientist.

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Thank you tvbcof for very good posts. I do not have any smerits to tell this right way.

The maths is quite straightforward. If you're incapable of calculating, it's about 1 in 1,750 people globally. And rising.



This thing solves our current problem. But it might not solve future problems, so let's do nothing instead. Brilliant.  ::)



Are you suggesting that you've won some argument? I can't see that you've even managed to make a valid point yet.



Anti-vaxxers contribute to the spread of the virus, help to keep it in circulation, and help to create new variants. Yes, of course. This is not controversial.



I'm irritated with you because I find your position morally indefensible. 4.5 million people have died, and this number would be far higher without lockdowns, and of course without vaccination. How many people have died because their business lost some profit? No need for exact figures, just give the answer to the nearest million.



You are outraged not that millions have died, but that some people have lost profit. And yet you won't accept data from anywhere, because you think it's all motivated by money. "Doesn't we call it hypocritical?"



Really? Because that's not coming across at all.  ::)

Yes, math is simple, and tvbcof did the calculations for us - so don't fear and say that percentage number and think about it. And of course, Mr Obvious - number of died would always be higher and higher - I am sure you understand why.


This maybe solves our current problem in short-time and brings lots of more problems in the future. Just say it whole. But from some reason you cannot or don't want to see that.


No. I am suggesting that you are prejudiced, using dogmatic view on situation and do not accept that there are other issues then death, which are getting worse with restrictions.


Pro-vaxxers contribute to economical issues (not only to individuals but to whole nations), tightening political power, destroying psychological health and social coexistence. And (because they still can catch covid) they help to create new variants. These issues will exists for tens years with us. And yes, this is considered as controversial, but sad true.


Morally indefensible? Really? Some extremely low percent of population died and you stoically say that you do not care about:

• private bussiness which support living of families
• psychological health
• education
• healthcare

And of course not just today but tens of years in the future? You want to speak about morality? You don't care about others lives and you have some requirements to them? And of course I am sure that you have some data about that number which would be far higher without lockdowns. How can you know? You think or believe?


Oh please, just wake up from that dream you are living. You just don't accept any other issues linked to restrictions. Just go get shopping, maybe you will see how higher is the price of food in compare to last year. How should someone who lost bussiness do feed children without profit? You don't care? He/she doesn't care about gov restrictions. But of course they have to support these restrictions by paying taxes.


You find some data on the net a decided to believe. I decided to not believe. Neither of us has proof that data is not fake. Try to think about that. And thanks again to tvbcof who did the job and looked what sort of data sources you are using.

I don't see any point in extending this discussion; we're not getting anywhere, and are unlikely to reach consensus on even the tiniest detail. When I read your posts, I just see misguided nonsense or outright idiocy, and I'm sure you feel the same way about facts mine.

Thats quite a silly thing to say. Just because vaccinations have been successful in the past does not mean that vaccinations based on new, genetic technologies against novel viruses that have never existed before, are anywhere near safe. You can't blame people for being afraid of something that is completely new. And we should become test subjects for what? A virus which is about 2-3x deadlier than the common flu? Do you take flue shots every year? If the answer is no, then youre a hypocrite.

Most of you guys are missing the point of this thread. My postulation is that refusal to allow vaccination during a pandemic is not anti-vaccination, but it is simply a reluctance to support the misuse of vaccination. The Covid vaccination mania has probably done considerable damage to the future use of vaccines, as more and more evidence appears to confirm that it is not protecting most people. Vaccines should be used to prevent infection, and not as a cure. Using them in a pandemic without checking to see if the are needed just creates variants, but, of course, that means that Pharma companies can continue to push"booster shots" to protect people from last year's virus.

You may also like to reflect on the reasons for withholding information on the need to aspirate when vaccinating. This is such a simple process, and would probably prevent many of the vaccine induced heart problems.

That's what they're used for, yes. They're preventative. It's even in the official guidance: "Do not attend your vaccine appointment if you feel unwell with symptoms of coronavirus."



Where is this evidence, though?
The vaccines aren't 100% effective, and protection wanes over time... neither of these things are in dispute. But I've not seen any evidence that the vaccines don't protect most people. You need to give sources and numbers, otherwise it may as well be a BADecker post.

The vaccines are highly effective.


The DEVOLUTION of covid vaccine efficacy - https://www.brighteon.com/3ea4b0ea-be58-405e-ba9b-1c684d97b5d8


Short video, 2 minutes 11 seconds. Hint: Slow it down as you are watching.


8)

Personally, I prefer nature over anything else, I prefer leaving my body to carry out its defensive tasks by strengthening the immune system naturally without taking the vaccine or other medications, the problem is not in the effectiveness of the vaccine against the Corona virus or not, but in the side effects that it can cause to the human body after a while. I do not know if this is true, but there are many who say that this vaccine causes other diseases that are no less dangerous than Corona disease, so they refuse to take it.
I'm with the natural methods in everything and I'm sure the human body has the credentials to defend itself with some natural help but if the vaccine is forcibly imposed by the government I'll have to take it.

Re: The vaccination issue is not bipolar

Being in direct opposition to something makes your stance bipolar.
Making blanket statements about "the government's" intention regarding our health makes your view myopic when considering it's a global pandemic and btw you have a lot more faith in the ability of politicians to produce intentional outcomes than I do---which does put us at opposite poles on that issue.

Even well-reasoned lines of enquiry require base data to come to an understanding of a subject, if you are only willing to consider information outside of the mainstream, your data set is incomplete.
It’s easier to find and relate to information that confirms your bias.
For a Pro-Vax perspective try…

*cut and pasted from Wikipedia
Paul Allan Offit (born 27 March 1951) is an American pediatrician specializing in infectious diseases, vaccines, immunology, and virology. He is the co-inventor of a rotavirus vaccine. Offit is the Maurice R. Hilleman Professor of Vaccinology, professor of pediatrics at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, former chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases (1992–2014), and the director of the Vaccine Education Center at The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. He has been a member of the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices
(anywhere besides the main news outlets)
https://www.c-span.org/video/?514731-5/washington-journal-dr-paul-offit-discusses-boosters-vaccines-children    ----boring

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3wJZ9zh5a8    ----Zdogg has better questions funnier, and speaks on Vaers reporting towards the end



You don't seem to mind posting polarizing concepts regarding vaccines
Are unvaccinated people purebloods?   --   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5365968.0

Skimmed it.  Pretty cringy/creepy.  The one funny thing that Z said was that in his _next_ career he wants to be a propagandist.


I don't want to be a GMO programmed by Jeff Epstein's pals and comrades.  And I certainly do not when ownership of a GMO is assigned to the intellectual property rights holder of the genetic modifications.

That's the way the laws could be interpreted now, particularly after massive lobbying money pumped by biotech over the last few decades.  How, exactly, such claims might be adjudicated in the future depends a bunch on who does the adjudication I suspect.  If it is a group who subscribes to the notion that the only reason that God put most humans on earth was to serve a different group as their slaves (e.g., the Kushner's Chabad-Lubavitch cult with their 'Noahide Laws'), then it's fairly easy to guess on which way things would go.

When it's this obvious, it serves as scientific source material. Use your head. How does a scientist determine something? He observes it one way or another.

8)

Covid vaccines are the first particulate vaccines, and the effects of injecting nano-particles are untested in humans, but are carcinogenic in rats. The issue od injecting micro-devices to report on our activities is a planned red herring. Why would they need to do that when they can inject payment processing chips with the consent of the victim? DNA altering nano-particles have been under development for several years, and the research is documented on the net. That is the real risk in these vaccines.

Jet Cash,
it seems like you come from a place of compassion to tell people to live a healthier more natural lifestyle, you seem like a genuinely decent human being but
that's a lot you just said there. There is also plenty of research available on JSTOR as well but you would have to pay for it---while "research on the net" is free; you're getting what you pay for.

I would not like to be unkind to you so this wouldn't be a topic we could engage on; it's polarized enough in real discussion.