Bitcoin Forum

Considering how Royse777's casino promotion (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5403679.0) ended in him being tagged by several DT-members, I'm curious what the community thinks of the following:

A week ago, Gianluca95 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=206159) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=206159)  +5 / =1 / -0) created a signature campaign with "Trusted and Safe BTC Mixing" in the title. That's a very strong vouch, without any proof whatsoever. Gianluca95 refers to their ANN thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5405065.0), in which it was mentioned 5 days before the signature campaign was started (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5405065.msg60513493#msg60513493) that there's no reason to trust this site.

The user (Shaker_finance (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3488745)) who promotes the site shows red flags that I've seen many times before. Typically, this is how a scammer respond when someone doubts their legitimacy.

Some examples:
I don't trust sites that claim to be trusted. That's up to the users to decide.
It sounds like they don't want to share yet at what amount they'll pull an exit scam.
Hardcoded "live mixing", I've seen that before. Needless to say: that mixer pulled an exit scam.
He's either hiding his lack of funds, or he found a massive vulnerability in Bitcoin! My money is on the former.
Right. Some third party future action is supposed to convince us now that the site is safe.
Right....
I've seen this before too: using large numbers to convince people, instead of a simple signed message. Anyone can make up a large number, not many people can sign a message from such an Bitcoin address.
There's the excuses, always nice to see the team goes on vacation right after launching.

And there's the character attacks:
This kind of language typically comes from scammers who see their "business model" evaporate. I've seen it so many times.
And there's Trust abuse (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=3488745):
https://loyce.club/other/trustabuse2.gif

When this site scams someone, which I think is quite likely to happen, will Gianluca95 take the fall for them and get tagged?

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Just 3 days ago (4 days after Gianluca95 started the signature campaign), he left Royse777 the following positive feedback: I don't know what to make of this.

I think it depends, because these things are not black and white. According to what you say and what I have seen in Ann, there are many points that make me distrust the mixing service, but if we are talking about the campaign manager, we would have to see, for example, what degree of involvement he has had. If he has presented himself as a potential parter of the service, for example as it happened in the case of Royse777 or he has simply been hired for the signature campaign.We also know that there are many people in DT who do not necessarily have the same vision of things. So he can be tagged by some and defended by others.

With all the respect I have for you, it seems to me that this question you are asking comes more from a certain empathy towards Royse777, than from a purely objective analysis of the situation.

BTW, I've just seen that Gianluca95 left positive feedback to Royse777 recently.

No, because this is what Gianluca95 said in the campaign thread, and it it clear for member's of the forum to see:

This could be misinterpreted due to your sig and cause a huge flame war between that company and yourself. That being said, I believe you have a genuine care for the forum and it's participants so it's a non issue for me.

My feeling, you think a site is going to screw someone does not mean that they will screw someone. What we have seen in the past doesn't mean this site is the same. It could 100% be the same, I'm not saying that. Until they do scam, there shouldn't be a thread like this right?

It's a really good subject to bring up and I'm super curious as to what everyone else is going to say here. On one hand, by saying you/me/us feel this site is going to scam, you are looking out for the communities safety. On the other hand you are being libelous and damaging that sites reputation without any proof the site has/will scam. So is it better to accuse and say sorry later? Or better to let a company be until they assrape someone for a huge chunk?


Far as Gianluca goes he has been launching a bunch of small 1 week campaigns which are useless to the companies. I'm not sure if he is just thinking of his pocket or has a genuine thought that a super small 1 week campaign helps a company. I don't know if he would reject an offer from a company at this point. He has yet to prove himself is what I'm saying.

In the past, if a red flag pops up, it has been fine for a manager to close the campaign and all the animosity is towards the site not the manager.

This is interesting as well. I had no bad feelings towards Royse myself until I stared reading their replies in the Bitlucy thread and in their thread on the subject. Royse was responding full of anger and attacking users and I felt attacking myself which is why I washed my hands of the situation.

You guys can like or dislike whomever you want, but still have to be objective when having/giving your opinion. I liked masterp til the scumbag stole 5 bitcoins from me.

I'd say there's a difference between a "xx Signature Campaign" and a "Trusted and Safe xx Signature Campaign".

I've added the part that triggered me to add Royse777's case:
My main reason to create the topic wasn't Royse777, but it's a green trusted user who promotes a site who's ANN I've been following in the past weeks. Also, it's too early for a scam accusation, hence the topic in Reputation. And I needed a Reference link for neutral feedback.

Thanks for adding this. I checked for it, but only at the bottom (and clearly didn't read the entire Notes).
Still, I can't agree with adding "Trusted and Safe" to the title.

I'm not sure.
I really like eddie13's take on this:
I'm not sure. That's why my feedback is neutral. I believe the risk deserves a warning.

What goes on now is that mixer tries to start working and some of the for sure weird participants of the forum don't want it to work because they think it's not worth to be trusted, without reasons, just simple judgement. I consider that absolutely abnormal, you may say that any mixer is not trusted because you only think it's not trusted

Signature campaign is more about marketing, yes we want to become trusted mixer and we make company to look trustworthy, that's normal. We ordered company for 1 month for now

I don't think both case of Royse777 and Gianluca95 is same. Gianluca95 is only working as campaign manager though some things could be different and they must step up on such an issue. Gianluca95 should look at this case and decide whether or not to run the campaign anymore.

I believe it too. This deserves a warning. Shaker Finance looked shady from the very beginning of their journey here. As I mentioned earlier, they are nowhere near to a professional business which the community must know to avoid potential risk. Have added neutral feedback too.

To be fair, your responses to others have probably not helped your situation. This is not how a professional would want to act if they expect to be in business for a longtime.

It's only your personal dislike and the thing that you noticed couple spelling mistakes upon launch. That's it nothing else

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Read pls from what it has started, what they wrote first and why I responded that way not another.
I won't be professional when people try to call me liar without reasons, whatever

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

I don't really worry about such accusations. I've seen other mixers (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5269927.msg55041125#msg55041125) that didn't give me a single reason to doubt their intentions. It's not as if I'm accusing all of them without any reason to be suspicious.

Trust is earned, not claimed.

Right.

Do you have a problem only with the title and how shaker_finance replied to you in their Ann thread? If that is the problem, then there is no-problem, the mixer have approached Gianluca to run their campaign here for them, they have told him that they are trusted and safe, and he has included it in their campaign thread, there's been nothing to the contrary since the campaign launched, have there? If they indeed as your feelings tell you, screw people, then all Gianluca needs to do is to close the thread, and take what he said about them down, he already told us he isn't affiliated with their service. Gianluca is endorsing the company that has hired him, that is why he has included "safe and trusted" in the thread, he has not compelled any member to use them. You said this a while ago in another thread LoyceV

I really don't know why you are again involving Royse777 in this story, when other people also gave him positive feedback recently, like Hhampuz for example and one more manager...


I didn't want to give any attention and feedback to Shaker Finance, but after doing some research and asking simple questions, they started with insults.
Just to make it clear, I am not affected at all with words coming from other people, but I made legitimate questions, suggestion and his answer was insults.
This is a clear red flag for me so I decided to give them temporary red flag as a warning to newbies to be careful with this website.
I never said they are 100% scam, but they are high risk and everyone should be careful using this website for mixing coins.
I am thinking of starting new topic dedicated for Shaker Finance, when I collect more information.

You are being a bit of hypocrite here because you recently gave Royse777 a negative feedback intentionally without having any proof, and claiming he didn't ''clean his name'' whatever that means.
So if someone calls you a piece of shit and stupid retard that is not reason to think that some website is potential scam, but when you are constantly beating the dead horse with Royse, you can give him negative feedback... that is your logic.

Check topic first, take a quick look at where you've tried to call me liar few times when I explained you on forum deposits and delete this message you've just created. Reasonable response to aggression

You're very wrong here bud. Royse had claimed to be a partner and the site had some questionable issues pop up. Rather then answer users with a cool head, Royse decided to be a big asshole to anyone who had questioned them. Same as this mixing service if ya ask me, just plain unprofessional.

Then Royse opens the thread explaining their side. If you bothered to read the thread, I was very empathetic and was supporting them at 1st. Then, Royse decided instead of answering a few questions and trying to clear up my concerns, to attack me and basically say I was stealing their business. I'm sorry but that company contacted me, I didn't contact them. If ya act like a baby, i'll treat ya like 1. Royse fucked up and instead of handling the heat, they decided to make it personal. If they wanna act that way then I have no more use for the situation. Maybe an apology from Royse should happen.

dkbit98 we are off topic here and if you have a problem with me and need to start a thread, by all means do it. Or pm me and see if we can figure out your issue. Otherwise get off my nuts.

I stand by my words.
You are a LIAR, and everyone can see your speculations and insults for us 1$ Chipmixer members, that was talking about us looking from above like we are some gipsy beggars.
If you properly did some research you could see that Chipmixers paid much more for their years long campaign, and they have been much more open than you.

Let me conclude with claims I made in your topic:

1. Unlimited amount of coins ✔️  (later changed partially)
2. Exploit forum link posted ✔️ (later removed)
3. 1$ lie ✔️ (Chipmixer campaign)


I followed situation with him from start, and you can see that I criticized him and asked about that partnership.
Did he handled everything in a bad way, sure he did, but he didn't deserve you jumping on his head with Jolly and giving him negative feedback, not to mention taking over his campaign...
I don't have any problem with you, and I said I don't understand why Royse was again involved in this story.

1. 20 BTC amount is close to be unlimited per mix, you fail here, next
2. Exploit link posted then deleted because thread is awating deposit (What's wrong with it again ??? I reject that or what ???)
3. 1-2$ not lie, it's price paid for signature campaign for full members for example and yes it's close to average price

Your points are bullshit again, try one more time, my kiddo LIAR girl :D

I think you hit the nail on the head. Twice in your two responses in this thread. I have not given you merit because I am out atm.


Your ways of answering make me distrust you, as yahoo62278 told you before. That is no way to respond if you manage a business.

You have a lot to learn from this one:  SCAM EXCHANGE MONITOR: BestChange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5404706.msg60485411#msg60485411)

Obviously they're not going to say they're not trusted and unsafe, but clearly they're not trusted. I'd expect a campaign manager to see through that, instead of copying the claim.

In my book, it takes a lot more than getting paid to endorse a company.

Okay let's go and change it to not trusted and not safe mixer lol and make signature campaign.

Signature campaign is actually marketing activity and it's only aim is to get as many click as possible.
And yes we want to become trusted mixer but it won't happen within 1 week or 1 month. It's matter of time

You can't prove ownership of 20 BTC that probably don't even exist, and it's far from unlimited amount, but I guess you need to finish math class in school for that.
Important thing to mention here is that you changed that amount after I asked several uncomfortable questions about that.

Here is archived post:
https://ninjastic.space/post/60503669

https://ninjastic.space/post/60583339

And this ladies ang gentleman is behavior of a grown man and ''trusted'' mixer businessman  ::)

I am not going to reply anymore to your messages, and I have you on ignore.
Good luck.

And what do we do with all the bounty managers, LoyceV?


I have taken one at random but there were a few days that I looked at the bounties and I assure you that this phrase is repeated a lot by the various managers.

That's not necessary, but omitting the statements would have been better. Just "a new mixer" instead of saying they're trusted (trusted by who exactly?).

If it were up to me: > /dev/null

If I were you I would edit the Ann thread and tell the campaign manager to do it too, as you just admitted you lied, which doesn't go very well for your reputation.

Admitted your lie ? What the hell you are talking about, again some kind of bullshit lie from you. It's clear that if mixer just opened it's not yet trusted, we were discussing if signature that claims mixer trusted should be here or not and that was the question

No one admitted lie lol man you misunderstood. "Trusted and safe" is marketing slogan, everyone sees that mixer recently open, how it can be trusted ? Even kid would understand that it's not yet trusted, it's not lie, it's just evident thing that I write here. You should fix that thing on my profile because I didn't confirm any lie that's totally ridiculous

I had your back but with only two. Don't ask me the reason 🤣

Green trusted user vouching for shady site
The answer is very simple. If someone is sure about the site is 100% shady then they should not vouch for it. I don't think Green trusted or no trusted user matters at all.

Shaker_finance, you need a professional who can handle your PR. The temperament you are showing is not good for your business or safe to say for any business. Assuming you are not shady but your attitude is not helping.

Yes that might be the thing I need, we will spread service on more forums and more advertising places soon and some kind of manager would be helpful.....

Maybe I could hire Gianluca95 will see, actually need Russian speaking manager because part of the forums will be in Russian

To lie is to say something false knowing it to be false. What you call marketing is lying.

Answer me one thing.

Why should we believe that your mixing service is "safe"?

Is it marketing too? The word is next to "trusted".

No it's not lying, trusted from our point of view but not yet trusted according to other users.

We already sorted out this thing I don't think there is need to discuss it further

@Shaker_finance
Since you're already responding to "some" of the issues/problems, it'd be nice to see an in-depth explanation as to why do you think signing a message isn't really that safe?
^{- If there's "really" a vulnerability, we can use your post to warn other users in threads "like this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996318.11580)"!}

• Quote from: Shaker_finance on July 07, 2022, 08:08:17 PM
  Sgning is not safe,
  
  Quote from: Shaker_finance on July 12, 2022, 01:12:47 AM
  signing is not safe that's correct,
  
  Quote from: Shaker_finance on July 17, 2022, 03:57:01 PM
  So when you sign you can't take those 20 BTC ?? WTF is this bullshit you are writing. You may sign and then easily take those 20 BTC same way.
  

I don't want further explanations to prevent other conflict.

Hi guys.

Firstly I’d like to thank Poker player that has notified me about this thread, LoyceV, you should have do it instead of him, but anyway, no matter about it.

I’ve reached an agreement for a management of signature campaign with shaker finance and I’ve funds for other 3 weeks of campaign.

As now, situation is changed, I see that shaker finance has a big red flag related to “potential scam” project that could be since his way of manage users, I’d like to let you everyone know that I’ll close campaign within this evening and will refund funds to the owner.

I don’t want to hurt everyone, and if someone risks to be scammed because of signature, I consider that closin it would be the best option in way to protect everyone.

I’m goin to take this decision now because I see that today many things has happened and I prefer to not work with this kind of business that risks to hurt my reputation built in 10 years.

Are they thinking the private key will be exposed?
If so they can move some funds from address a to address b. However signing a message is completely safe.

@Shaker_finance, I would also like to know your reasoning of not saying safe.

These people have long history of being trustworthy. They will understand your reasons when you explain them nicely.

In my opinion, you can have the best intentions and your business can be completely legitimate and honest, but the way you treat other members who have expressed their doubts, some of which are valid, is completely unacceptable from a business perspective. The first thing you should do is hire a community manager and let someone else handle that part of the work, since you don't seem to have the stomach for it. You may have a good, genuine service, but if you're marketing it poorly, or telling your potential customers a bunch of half-truths, they will get the wrong impression.

The second thing you should do is find out what the people who are venting about your business are trying to tell you. Are they expressing concerns that could be addressed? Are they asking for more information on the subject that you haven't provided? Then take those concerns seriously and address them. It's one thing to shut them down and say that you don't care what they have to say; it's quite another to listen carefully to their suggestions and address their concerns.

don't see the point for further explanations. I didn't like the community of bitcointalk at all, I have stomach to lead the campaign myself but not sure it's good idea. There will be topic with rare updates I guess and that's it. Sign campaign costs much, gets not that much traffic and it doesn't feel like advertising investment we really need now that's why I've written campaign manager to stop one

Those -3 negative comments won't help project as well but anyway if you want to swap negative trust comments I'm in

You really do not have idea how this forum works. If you had then you would not tell anything about swapping trust comments we know it as feedback.

You are a brand new account and your opinion does not weight any value unless you prove it worth to listen. These users have years of experience and members admire them. Without clearing all doubts you can not make a name for your business because it has came this far.

My opinion weighs, like any other forum participant, no doubts, yours doesn't, because it's not correct. I don't care who are those members, in real life they're for sure just bunch of losers and I drive car worth around 150k$ lol

Actually negative comments swap is solution why not, at least it will have effect on their profile

I didn't start that, they did

Poor man I have a private yacht.
35M length, nautro's swan shipyard, build and refit 2015. Cost $14,100,000. do you think anyone care to hear that?

A little education may help. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.0) Don't claim of something you know where clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

if you keep the funds for three/four weeks of the campaign, then it is safe there and there is no possibility that the participants will be cheated and not paid, right?
also, the red tag which Shaker_finance received is still not based on the fraud that happened. even though he has a sordidness language, this should not mark him as a scammer.
I would say that the decision to close the campaign is probably not completely founded.


most of your problems arose because you performed in a horrible manner. halfway through the thread, you accepted the criticism, started showing signs that you would improve things, and hired a PR manager... now when the manager has cancelled your campaign, you are going back to the old regime, and you call other forum members losers
and all sorts of other nonsense.
building trust is no longer a "matter of time"?

OMG it looks like a kindergarten's discussion here...

On Bitcointalk, mixers are always criticized but never encouraged. Just look at all the latest topics about tumblers and who is posting in them. Some even think that if the domain name is 2 weeks old, it's a scam. They expect the admin to buy the domain name 1 year before creating a site lol. I have even see a person receiving a red tag for something he's not even connected .How crazy is that

This is also a trend in the whole "Service Announcements" section but mixers are more prone to it.
From the start, the problem was the way @Shaker_finance was welcomed. And it's the same reason why some mixers don't want to do a marketing campaign. At best, they make 1-2 posts to annonce their mixer and don't come back, or very rarely for updates.

Perhaps not the right way to do it but I understand how @Shaker_finance replies to people. If you create an unfriendly environnement, don't complain if you read unfriendly replies

As for the use of "trusted" and other, well I would say marketing. By the way I didn't see somone here complaining for all others services (no matter the type) that used "trusted' in their titles/text or whatever

What do you mean by "you didn't like the community"? This is the largest crypto community online, and your business offers services related to crypto. It does not matter whether you like the community or not, what matters is your attitude. As I said before, you are clearly not up to the challenge.

Since you haven't actually run the signature campaign in the real sense yet, you cannot really say whether it brings traffic or not. One week of a campaign cannot be taken as a reference. Besides, if that were true, none of the companies would advertise here, yet we have campaigns that have run successfully for years.


That is not how the trust system works here.

From my point of view campaign manager has made himself very clear that it's not part of the campaign just managing the signature campaign for them. I believed that it have no hand concerning the company way of management and it's not part of their team. I think no one should blame and question him for any reason.

You should have came into this with a completely different attitude and a lot more research..
Huge fail scam or not..

“I drive a $150k car” lmao..
The way you have conducted yourself leaves almost no reason to possibly side with you even for devils advocate..

Your signature campaign manager should have mentored you on how to start such an operation, and advertise it, in a way that would be successful..

Including NOT sounding scammy..
Unless your campaign manager gave you advice and you refused it, but he ran the campaign your way anyway..
Probably not a great campaign manager if he ran something that he thought sounded scammy..
And decent manager should have had a conversation about this with you..

You should have don’t your research here about how to do this SUCCESSFULLY..
Not just how to run a signature campaign, but also how to not get chased out and labeled a scam..

You could have taken many steps here to not get labeled a scam, if your legit..


Experienced users here should also help you understand what you are doing wrong and help you correct it, unless they really feel like you are a scam..


I think it’s probably a scam.. Could be not a scam..
You should be content to operate at a very low volume for a long time to build trust the right way.. (become profitable)..
You aren’t going to start a new mixer and it just explode, and start out by making huge claims..
A mixer gains trust by standing the rest of time, and looking profitable instead of looking like a scam..



I think CM is a honeypot.. Not necessarily a scam, maybe..
Chances 40% legit, 50% honeypot, 10% will scam..

Wonder what the profitability of CM looks like..
Hmmm..


Bunch of CM signatures bashing on another mixer also looks like crap..
I get it but, damn.. Bad optics..
I don’t feel their is anything bad to it but the optics though..

Especially because someone seems like 15.


I don't. This is how he should have replied:

 SCAM EXCHANGE MONITOR: BestChange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5404706.msg60485411#msg60485411)

Shaker answered in a bad way simply because he was asked questions, without being accused of scamming.


The problem is that if you use "trusted and safe" and acknowledge that you are not trusted, which is just marketing, you make people think that you are not safe either. This coupled with the answers of a 15 year old kid from someone who promotes a money business, where you have to send him money, not someone who sells lettuce, makes me not trust him even for $0.01 transactions. I'd rather give it to a beggar.

Someone who has a business has to deal with complaints and handle them well, but when it comes to a money business like mixing, the answers have to be exquisite and clear.

Reminds me of AtobMixer..



I liked that.. Brutal honesty!


If one wanted to start a mixer successfully one should start from a point of absolute honesty, be humble and willing to accept critique, try to understand that they do look risky and why they look risky..

“We are a new mixer, try us out, start small, remember us and check back in a year we will still be here.
We take X% fees because we aren’t doing this for free..
If you screw up and loose your coins in our service and it’s your fault we’re charging you 5% with a 0.01BTC minimum to fix it because we aren’t doing that for free either..
We are doing this in the hopes of becoming a profitable business (plan, examples)
Don’t trust just one mixer to clean your coins, use multiple..
Hide your inputs from CM and hide your outputs from us! Or vice versa..”

Much better!

Not “we have 50 BTC but can’t sign for it and I drive a $150k car (I totally didn’t buy from scamming) and are the most trusted in the internet even though we haven’t processed a single transaction yet”…

Yep, I agree.  The general attitude most bitcoiners have (or should have IMO) is that a service like this should be considered untrustworthy until proven otherwise, especially with the claims Shaker_finance has made and also how he made them.  Insulting critics/skeptics in the scam-filled world of crypto isn't the right way to go about convincing people you're legit.

As far as the claim that people are only posting criticism because they're in a sig campaign is wrong, for one.  Those members could just as easily post idiotic praise instead of thoughtfully picking this mixer apart.  It's also hypocritical if Shaker_finance also has a campaign running to promote his own service (as mentioned by OP; I haven't looked in the Services section). 

I don't know if Shaker_finance is brand new to the forum or not, but it seems like he is, as anyone who's been here would expect to be challenged after making all of those claims.  And to him I say it's nothing personal, because he's obviously taking it that way.  It would be far better to answer the skeptics with data than defensiveness.

I prefer not to send unsollicited PMs, and my assumption was you could (and should) have known about the red flags by reading their ANN thread.

That seems like a good solution :)

I can't help but wonder though: do you research what you're promoting before accepting it?

My guess: they have no money so they can't sign anything and made up a lousy excuse.

It's usually poor people who think other poor people are impressed if they mention large amounts of money. If you want bragging rights here: sign a message.

Right. But this isn't only about campaign participants.

The forum describes negative feedback as "You think that trading with this person is high-risk.".

I answer you, because we both have on our trust lists to each other. I have not tagged him as a scammer, what I have said is that I, personally as a result of the responses seen in this thread (one of them includes boasting about unlimited amounts but not signing a message), would not have any kind of money deal with him nor would I put a single satoshi in his mixer, and that this is open to change depending on future behavior but, as of today, I wouldn't make any deal with him.


And that's what I think, hence the feedback.

20 BTC was claimed, not from scamming, have other internet business, so your irony is basically - you've shit your pants now


Leaving neutral feedback is solution here, you can write that mixer is new and you don't yet trust it but will see after time


I support that idea that first was unfriendly environment and only then rest of things. Those mixer mad skeptics don't help project at all you should understand it guys
Looks like you are the only person out there who understands me, thanks for that reply

By dodging a question like that, it implies there wasn't really a valid reason for giving those statements and that complicates things further!

If Gianluca95 didn't halt the campaign, sooner or later it would've led to some conversions and that's where it gets tricky.

In addition to LoyceV's comment, this is the second time I'm seeing someone making such comments ^{[e.g. signing isn't safe]} in the past month or two ^{[I had no luck in finding the other user]}, so either they're connected or they're misinformed ^{[most likely it's what LoyceV said earlier]}.

Lie. You claimed you were accepting unlimited amount of BTC mixing which later you changed as 20 BTC. Don't you think this two has a huge difference? This is a lie which once again proves that you are not trustworthy.
What about the retaliationary feedback against dkbit?

It's you lie, I don't reject that we first have written unlimited amount of BTC because 20 BTC to mix is close to unlimited... I'm not sure people mix more per single mix


What about relationairy feedback about Shaker.finance ?

Perfect!
What a great way to gain some instant credibility for you new mixer by showing experience operating other similar businesses..

“Owned/operated by the team behind Binance.”
If you were the same company as binance then you would have instant trust and credibility..

Your not binance though, who are you?
What are these other businesses?
Why didn’t you mention them and use them as an example of your skills and success?

If that’s true you could really get a step ahead in gaining trust for the new mixer..
Why not?

Here's an example (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5246554.msg54456641#msg54456641) :)

It sounds like you don't understand the market you are in.

Here's a ChipMixer deposit of 1,000 BTC I am aware of simply because we were discussing it an another thread: https://mempool.space/tx/1e7c498469369e90dfdd0c8258c6aa5325661553f441a2c6897d93b210f8ef67. There are plenty more such examples.

Further, a balance of 20 BTC does not let you mix anywhere close to 20 BTC. Since we know now that you supposedly have a balance of 20 BTC, if someone were to deposit say 5 BTC to your mixer, then there is a significant chance that their withdrawal would be easily linked to their deposit due simply to matching the size of the inputs and outputs. I would not even be comfortable mixing 1 BTC on a mixer with only 20 BTC being mixed, which is hardly "unlimited".

I understand market I'm in, 20 BTC is limit per mix not whole balance of the mixer

I don't want continue further discussions here, some of the updates will be on main topic also for forum deposits. Keep tracking if you want

The campaign manager doesn't have to endorse the business he is advertising.
While indeed there are quite a number of red flags with that business, Gianluca's main job is to ensure the advertisers/users in the campaign will get paid correctly.
Now, if the company indeed scams, if the campaign still continues, then there's a problem for Gianluca and the people wearing the signature.


Until then, like in any modern legal system, we may have to offer the benefit of the doubt...


I think that it's in your interest to show a proof of funds if you indeed want to have a nice, proper and flourishing business.
Until now, no matter how open minded I would be, I would avoid your mixer, just in case. If you don't care to show proof of being able to do what you claim, why would I risk using your business, when there is plenty of competition around? Just think...

I've just read more into this topic, it's a lost cause, nevermind the last part.
Indeed, Gianluca95 should think it over good (and at least make sure that all the required funds are in his or an escrow's hands before the week starts). The situation is not the same as Royse since Royse was part of the business (unfortunately for him), but this also has the potential to backfire.

Ok. So roughly how much BTC do you have to support the operation of your mixer? Can you sign a message from an address holding some part of those funds?

Perhaps you could also explain why your Terms of Service and Privacy Policy are plagiarized word for word from /en/terms/]https://[banned mixer]/en/terms/ (https://[banned mixer)?
And perhaps you could also explain why your letters of guarantee all return a bad signature from Jambler's public key?

in the past we have had signature campaigns launched by proven fraudsters. they regularly paid all campaign participants, no one is tagged for that. we are now condemning before the scam happened.
somewhere in the essence, I myself advocate that it is better to prevent than to be sorry. but that's just my feeling, also as LoyceV thinks the scam is expected from Shaker finance.
Again, I don't see Ginaluca's mistake even if he continued the campaign, given that he kept the funds for the campaign.

btw. what will we do next with the other campaigns? most of those involved in these discussions are from the Bitcoin paid campaign but in the bounty section we have many campaigns, and we all know that the majority of them are scams. we follow them to a much lesser extent, so we are not committed
some are led by the best and most recognized managers, but after a few weeks of the campaign, no one is interested in the fate of the business behind them.

You should really have been quoting also the next line from my post. Without it.. it kinda sounds like you're trying to argue with me, .. telling exactly what I concluded with: unless anything proven, there's still the benefit of the doubt.

And I also said that he should be careful with the funds. :)
So I'd say we're on the same page.

He can't currently answer any of this questions because he is driving his $150k car looking on everyone else as lower race of human losers, but after he edits and correct this plagiarism it would be like it never happened.
Interesting thing is that [banned mixer] is also russian website like shaker.finance... just sayin.
Let me archive this two pages, just in case something happens with them in near future:
http://web.archive.org/web/20220718222958/https://shaker.finance/terms
http://web.archive.org/web/20220718223627/https://shaker.finance/privacy-policy

I have one suggestion to rename that mixer to Insulting.finance, I think it sounds more appropriate.

A little reminder:


This sounded like you don't want to sign so you don't compromise your cold storage, and it sounded like 20 BTC is your entire balance. But, apparently, you don't even have that much.

It was a very convenient excuse for you to avoid answering questions, it is not a surprise you have decided to discontinue your discussions here.

Your website is incomplete: https://shaker.finance/#monitor

First, your Terms and Conditions refer to "Shaker.finance (the Service)" but there is no LLC/LTD therefore can you elaborate who is actually behind the mixer?

Second, your clauses mean you can scam anybody without fear of legal action therefore your website should be avoided by everybody:

4.3 Limitation of liability

TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES NEITHER Shaker.finance NOR EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, PARTNERS, VENDORS, LICENSORS ARE LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL, DELIBERATE OR OTHER DAMAGE (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGE BY LOST PROFIT, REVENUE, REPUTATION) OCCURRED WHEN USING THIS SERVICE.


I doubt the funds exist, he cannot sign any wallet at all that demonstrates he has any funds.

I see I was right to leave him negative trust, as any honest business would have addressed the issues raised in this thread convincingly in a couple of days at most.

His angry way of responding, not signing a message to show the funds the business have, the plagiarism, etc., show that this is either a scam about to happen or people managing this business are extremely unprofessional, and in neither case should people do business with them.

He has been active here in the forum after stating he was not going post here again but it was convenient for him to play that card because it coincided with him being asked to prove he had finances in place.

He refused to sign a wallet to show he was serious about his business, instead decided to victim play while still proclaiming he was operating a real business. He and his business are not to be trusted.