Bitcoin Forum

I didn't make this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5478634.0) thread self-moderated when I posted and now I want to as I feel there are few comments that shouldn't be there. Should op be allowed to make thread self-moderated after posting? I.e, able to edit thread later on to make it self-moderated, what do you think?

It will not be good for a thread that was not self-moderated before to be changed to self-moderated by the OP. People will later abuse it. You will see newbies and other people change a thread to self-moderated and delete the posts that they wishes at anytime which good members will not support on this forum.

Not a good idea. Imagine I create a topic today and then after 4 months I turn it into a self-moderated topic and delete all the posts of those who replied there.  ;D
Scammers would love that so much. Trolls a like.

And this has been discussed several times before, read through the replies
1. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5442602
2. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4963548.

Just lock that thread and create a new self-moderated topic with a link of the old thread.

And then everyone who cares so much about their total post count would be in an uproar, which would then light Meta on fire for at least a month with complaints. 

Don't get me wrong, there have been times when I've created a thread and then after reading some of the standard bitcointalk idiocy wished I could have switched it to a self-moderated one, but the idea of implementing the ability for members to do that would just be bad all around.  Theymos no doubt realizes this and isn't likely to even consider it--kind of like many of the good suggestions that get brought up now and again. (just busting your iron balls, boss man)

I do not think it would be a necessary feature for the forum, in my opinion. Besides of the arguments already explained how it could be easily abused by spammers, shillers and scammers to get rid of the posts from people trying to call them out, I believe most of the people know exactly when and whether their thread is supposed to be moderated or not, because of the implications and possibly inappropriate replies such thread will prompt from a percentage of the people who decided to read it.

For example, If I decided to open a thread about Bitcoin in Venezuela, I would not have any reason to believe such thread would be better if I moderated it by myself. On the other hand, if I wanted to open a thread about the politics behind the conflict in Gaza or the conflict in Ukraine, it would be very likely some trolls and propaganda spammers would try to derail and flame into the thread, I would make it self moderated as soon as I started to type the body of the thread in question.

If your common sense changed of mind concerning that thread your opened, it would be better you just posted a message in it directing people to find a new self moderated thread about the same topic in the section and lock it.

If forum allows to change a normal (not self-moderated) thread to a self-moderated thread, scammers will abuse it a lot.

They can start a scam project and manage a thread normally until forum community start to point out some vagueness and scam signals of the project. The team will surely start to turn it to self-moderated to censor scam reports against their scam project.

Your proposal can be good for non scammers but it will be abused by scammers so generally it's not good idea.

In some boards, like Meta, you can not create a self-moderated thread. If you already have a thread in like Reputation board, as a self-moderated one, and you move it to Meta, it will automatically turn to not self moderated thread. You can not move it back to Reputation and reclaim a self-moderated feature.

 There are some features that will look nice for implementing in the forum like this one you suggested, Op, but judging from the above answers, it's obvious it's a bad idea or a disaster waiting to happen once that access gets into the wrong hands. It's true that some users here will want to use it for good intentions and try to limit as much spam but mostly, those who scam or spammers will see this as an opportunity to spread their misleading informations and not get checked or called out for it simply because they can easily remove any reply that doesn't fit their 'standard' or seems like it's opposing or challenging their claims.

Scammers will abuse this feature as they can delete any bad responses to their services and keep the positive one and then all the reviews on the forum will be useless because they are biased. We can reach a compromise, which is to have a warning that this topic could become self-moderated in the future, but then it is better to be self-moderated from the beginning.

There would always be comments from trolls, users who comments just to add to their post quota, and the users who make meaningful comments. These are the categories that we can group replies on a thread into. It is therefore important that the OP have this mind before creating a thread. To sieve out the type of comments you want, start the thread by making it self-moderated. I don't know how possible this could be but you can report comments on your thread to the moderators if you think it makes no sense and it comes from trolls or the second category of people I mentioned instead of trying to change it to a self-moderated thread.

This would introduce more problems, esp in the politics of the forum.

If you make a thread self moderated after the fact, you will be accused of censorship.
If you don't make a thread self moderated after you see poor content, you will be accused of favoritism.

I'm surprised to see no one replied "use report to moderator" when this is actually the alternative answer when the thread isn't self moderated.

I assume the "few comments that shouldn't be there" are shitposts, off topic, pointless etc, so @OP have you report these posts to be deleted?

You always have the opportunity if the answers do not follow the topic, or if you see any trolling, to report it to the moderators.
This will encourage users to follow the topic and not deviate from it.
By doing self-moderation, we, on the contrary, motivate the user to engage in arbitrariness, since not always the one who creates topics, especially in the reputation section, will read the answers that he would like to see.

The implementation will be good but I don't think it's going to bring any positive impact. You want it self-moderated or not - should be decided when you are creating the topic, changing it after is giving the others to be scared of your moderation even when they made the response knowing it's not going to be moderated.

The worse thing you do it that the mistake of not checking the self-moderated option. I had this experience many times. I usually create another thread and request the moderator to remove the first thread.

I'm not a fan of self-moderated thread, i didn't even created one yet. As for the suggestion, if the main reason is you "forgot" to set it to self-moderated thread, and the number of reply is just say 5 or even lower (depends on the admin) i guess it's reasonable. More than that won't be possible.

It's the forum protection against potential scammers, we think twice when posting on moderated threads because if the post is not desirable for the creator he can easily delete the post, so if we have this feature many scammers or potential scammers in the Altcoin section will abuse this feature, we can request post that you think do not deserve to be in your thread to be deleted by the moderators as stated by Despairo.
If ever this feature is to be allowed only highly trusted members should be allowed to use this feature and should not be available to lower-ranked members like newbies selling stuff here.

Those "5" or less users did not subscribe to be moderated by you.

Self moderated threads have a warning there telling other users to avoid posting if they don't want to be moderated by the OP, changing it after a user already posted means they get to be subject to something they may have not wanted.

What would make it acceptable is if you can only moderate the thread from the point you changed it to self mod and previous post stays the same.

If you think a post needs to be reviewed and removed due to spam or other reasons that break the rules, then just report it to a moderator instead of hoping the admin gives you the right to convert an old thread to self-moderation. You may not think about what the consequences would be if admin gave users that ability, it would just cause a lot of problem.


Don't agree.

You have a good intention but like all the others are saying on your thread, it will be subject to abuse, honestly, I have created several threads that are unmoderated but wished that I should have moderated them.

If your request would be considered, it should be by request and approved by the moderators so you can clean all the spam on your thread, I don't know if there is a modification software for this.
Once you create an unmoderated thread, especially on a section where posters need to reach their quota the discussion is bound to have spam and posts redundant.

This feature will make some accounts hesitate before posting any ideas, as the creator of the topic may be a troll and delete the posts. Instead of wasting time on a post that can be deleted, it is better to discuss the posts of people who are known to not randomly delete replies. This feature will increase drama between the members.

I have seen such a request here on meta for some time ago. In as much as there is a great advantage if this is implemented but I think the disadvantages overweighs the advantages.

If you already made the post non self moderated and later realises that it ought to be self moderated, simply lock the thread and re-start a self moderated one and that solves it.

This would be a good development, at least it will cause more functionality and better user experience if could be done. But I strongly doubt it with the current software used by the forum. Even with advanced software, it might still be impossible since it will take high-tech expertise for that to be possible. It is easier to add functions and features if you start your topic, removing or adding to it after creating the topic seems so off to me, to say the least.

Even the best websites/forums I've visited and used do not have such capability. That is why you need to think it through before you open any thread as you might not be able to enforce any change again after clicking the submit button. Also, if this feature is added, don't you think that people can misuse it? Many are still complaining about the self-moderated topic issues, and if some users had posted because it is not self-moderated the threads but were later deleted because it is not in line with the view of the OP. That will be a betrayal of trust and wasted time and energy. This can be so disappointing and make more topics uncertain for some people to participate again which I can only conclude to be an abuse.

The simple explanation already had been made here, you cannot do that and also people will take that for granted and begin to abuse it, the way you see some making posts and deleting their own self posts could not be as annoying as seing your own post being deleted by someone who is the OP to his thread and taking action on deleting what you have posted, so if you want to be self moderated to your thread, then make it right at the start.

That is understandable but if the admin thinks it is a good idea then it should be implemented for only high ranks like Hero and onwards. If still the thread becomes a spammers paradise then the mods can delete the thread. I liked the idea as it has happened with one of our members on our the local board and he had to lock that thread for some time and start a new one.



Please read what I have written above and I do think there is always a way out for such abuse. Now, it all depends on the admin to if he is interested in this idea which as always won't be given any preference.

because the situation doesn't allow the OP to change the thread to self-moderated after it wasn't previously moderated. What you can do is bother the moderator if there is a post that isn't supposed to be.
another option is to lock the thread and create a new moderated thread. that's what happened in the Known Alts of any-one thread, that @Timelord2067 created on the reputation board.
Previously threads were not moderated and irregularities were occurring in some cases in older unmoderated threads. and finally, @Timelord2067 created a similar new thread that is self-moderated with some new conditions. maybe such things also need to be discussed with the board moderators to get a better solution.

No, it's still not a good idea because the members with high ranks will take advantage of the privileges and they can change a thread to self-moderated to delete all of those posts that they didn't like. I think admins should not do any such implementation because it would cause very bad impacts on the forum and some users posts.

If someone hasn't created their thread self-moderated that means they don't have the power to delete the posts that they don't like but if they can change the same thread in self-moderated then they can delete all those posts in that thread which they don't like. That way each day some user's 10's of posts get deleted for difference of opinion or rivalry.

It wouldn't be fair. Just lock the thread and open another if you wish to have it self-modded.

I remember having created threads several times only to realise they were not self-moderated, it happens  ;D

I have to agree here. In my opinion, allowing the ability to retrospectively self-moderate threads is not a good idea. If a member overlooked making their thread self-moderated when it was created then they would have to either lock it in order to create an identical thread (which they should remember to make self-moderated otherwise they will repeat the initial mistake).

Your Idea wasn't bad, but if we consider the positive and negative effects of this self-moderate option, we will find more negative effects than positive effects. Basically self-moderate topics seem like autocratic topics to me and especially this option can be used well by scammers. Any negative comments towards them can be deleted quickly.
The issue will be such that without self-moderation, not a single topic will be found. Apart from that, if many people have personal conflicts, those persons can abuse it. So my suggestion is that it will be better without turning on this option. If someone needs to self-moderate a topic, lock the current topic and open a new topic and link the old topic there.O0

 

It would be unfair to those members who have already replied in your thread.

This is why you cannot make a topic self-moderated after posting.

However, you do have the option to lock the thread and create a new self-moderated topic, providing a link to it in your original post.

This is what I pictured as solution after reading the replies why it should not be. I had seen few members did that when they felt that way and better if you realise that you forgot to tick the self moderated check box while creating topic so the topic can be closed before getting any replies and can be moved it to archival or request for deletion and create the same topic with self moderated option.

You are always subjected to possible moderation every time you post on this forum. If the staff feels like your post breaks any forum rules or it gets reported, there is a possibility you will get moderated both in a self-moderated and standard thread. With OP's suggestion, you are just adding one more person to the mix that has the ability to moderate you.

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OP's suggestion has both positives and negatives.
There are cases when a user might have wished that they created a self-moderated thread if the discussion starts moving in an undesirable direction. If that happens, a button press to allow self-moderation would be a welcome change.

But it also opens the door to abuse as others rightly said. Just recently, we had a case of a well-known legendary member deleting and editing all their OPs. No need to mention any names, most people know who I am talking about. Imagine if they had the ability to go on a self-moderated post deletion spree as well which affected hundreds of users? It would just look bad.

But perhaps to limit such incidents, turning a normal thread into a self-moderated one could be a feature only available to certain ranks. Similarly to having the ability to wear an avatar, theymos could perhaps enable it for Full Members and above.   

Sometimes I also feel if it is possible it would be good. But as we know scammers of course abuse it too much. And at some point, it will be more worst thing ever in the forum :).

It's better to think twice about making the topic self-moderated while creating a new topic. I always forget to make it self-moderated at the first chance :) and remember after creating the topic. Then I just delete it and make a new one.


Btw what will if we have the additional options open and can see them without clicking there? Or Only the Self Moderated option can be visible somewhere without clicking any button?

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/01/20/3xA4Z.png

Imagine if there was a setting in our profiles that we could turn on to make new threads self-moderated by default? That way, you wouldn't have to bother remembering to tick the self-moderated topic option for each new discussion you create. You only do it once in your profile settings. Again, this shouldn't be available to all ranks or not at all. I am just rambling. 

You are right. Maybe this could be the most reasonable solution for this case. And yes of course as you said, it should not be for all ranks. otherwise, all we have to face a ridiculous situation when we can see a bunch of posts are getting deleted :)

I am always aware of the forum moderation and the rules it follows. Being on the forum and posting means I have to keep to the forum rules.

With self moderated threads, the OP has local rules which doesn't necessarily have to be in line with the forum rules. They can delete my posts out of spite or the to control the direction of the conversation.
If I post in a self moderated thread, I am saying, "hey it is cool for me and I'm willing to play to the local rules." Making a post with no warning of it being self moded and that getting changed later on has too many cons.

This is very simple I think. It is easy to forget ticking the self moderation button before publishing your post. But if you intend making the thread self moderated and eventually forgot, immediately after publishing the thread you must surely remember that you wanted to make the thread self moderated even before the first reply comes in. It has happened to me and I remembered almost immediately and simply had to lock the thread. Make a duplicate of that same thread and this time make it self moderated and possibly archive the former.
According to Jollygood, if you forget the second time, you have to lock the second topic and repeat the process untill your brain stops failing you to make the post self moderated.

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Before now, I had loved self moderated threads because it is the simplest means to prevent or mitigate spam. But after the incident of Ratimov in the forum, where he deleted his own posts even if they were important to the forum and he also had to delete the replies of others, including mine. That was when I understood the real disadvantage of self moderated posts in the forum. I have fallen out of love with self moderation because its abuse can be extreme.

I would not cite it as rambling, it is a very good suggestion. If there is an option that allows a universal setting it might be productive however on the flip side what would happen if all threads were created with self-moderation by default and the box had to be unchecked in order to create the thread without moderation?

Yeah, in case all threads are self-moderated by default, there should also be an option in your profile settings to create standard and non self-moderated threads. If users abuse their rights and delete the posts of others without a valid reason, admins should have an option to remove the self-moderation ability of those members or punish them with temporary bans or in some other way. But considering that it creates additional workload, I doubt anything will change.

Some users intentionally do not reply in self moderated topics when they are created by specific users (E.G. trolls), because they will end up deleting your posts they feel butthurt by. Thus it will be unfair if this feature was added, as users could reply to certain threads that isn't moderated by the op, and the op later goes on to change it to a self-moderated one and start deleting posts.

In summary, i'd like to know from the beginning if i am replying in a self moderated topic or not.

If you think what people are commenting is not good enough then you can report those post to the mod to have them deleted i think is another cool way to filter your thread than allowing the edit option to make it a safe moderated thread usually when you are creating you have to chose between these option before final publication and whatever that makes you post them you won't have that right or capacity to change any of these option you are requesting from admin.

There would be no better way to censor a thread than being able to reconvert a thread that wasn’t designed for that purpose back to being self moderated, users on the forum would use this to censor just about any thread. Then, we would have users who’s responses have been deleted, coming on to create a duplicate thread of there own to discuss the issue and you would have an uproar of responses here and there over what isn’t supposed to be of any value.

Should a comment be seen as unfit or doesn’t relate to the thread, the report to moderators button is always there to have it deleted. It would count as spam and spam comments would sure be deleted by moderators except otherwise.

If anything, this will go down as another suggestion that has been made but will probably not come to fruition (like so many before). At best, it might get listed to appear in the to-do list for the new forum that we do not know will ever be released. Having said that I do agree with you it will not be considered as a priority and nothing will change.

Unless there are exceptional circumstances, I tend to avoid posting in threads that are started by those on my ignore list (including those considered trolls). Add to that the possibility of posting in their self-moderated threads then yes, I am one of those members that would most probably not post in threads they have created therefore I understand your point of view.

We have all been there, I have reopened threads on various occasions because I forget to tick the self moderation box and I always wish there was an option to convert those thread into a self moderation one, at least within the first few minutes of the thread been created just as you can edit your topics or replies within the first 10 minutes without it been indicated as edited. But unfortunately that option isn't available and you have to close the thread then reopen another with the self moderation feature.

People's fear are valid because this privilege can be abuse but having the option to be added just few minutes after posting won't damage anything. But on other note, the option shouldn't be available after the post has been posted more than 10 minutes. OP if the administrators does nothing about your suggestion you shouldn't be angry because it isn't a priori at the moment although the suggestion has been brought up in the past but it's something we can do without. We just have to be a little more cautious when creating our topics and not be in a rush to create our threads and if we mistakenly forget, just do the normal thing by locking the thread and reopening a new one with that self moderation option present.

Not good enough isn't a rule violation, and more often than not, admins aren't going to delete such posts. A lack of quality in posting or spelling isn't the same as spam or off-topic posting. It can be if it ticks a few other boxes, but not necessarily.

I think this is least that can be done. If op forgot to make thread self-moderated while posting, allow him to do so within 10 minutes via edit option, as far as I can see, I see no cons in this option.

The way self-moderation option is put on interface, sometimes you forget it's there. Although, this is not what happened to me but can see it may have happened to others, and 10 minute edit window to make it self-moderated again will help mitigate that.

What about the users who would have commented on such a post within the 10 minute period, i am talking about users who only posted in the topic because it was not moderated by the op, still unfair to them if you ask me. If something like this would be implemented, then it should be in topics that have had zero replies, once there is one reply, it becomes impossible to do.

Well, if members have posted in a thread and the OP decides to make it self-moderated then the only alternative would be to lock the thread and then create another but the effect would mean the posts within that locked thread would not transfer over to the new thread. It does sound unfair however if the error was not made by any OP by forgetting to self-moderate in the first place then subsequent issues would not arise. I think theymos will not make any alterations to the current self-moderated set-up.

Yes you are right but it was based on op request..
Naturally I didn't see any sense to have made topic and after which topic owner would want to change their topic option to self moderated. There are some times I do come across post that aren't correctly spelled but since is not violating any rules then i finds no reason to report such post, the best op can have this topic locked and create a newer one with option he needed I believe this has been already suggested before.

It's a good one if threads can be allowed to be edited to make it self moderated later after posting so that the OP will have the ability to take down some comment which shouldn't be on the thread just like you have mentioned but I think this too could be abused just like the way self moderated thread sometimes are been abused by OP in a way that some OP take down replies just because they don't feel comfortable with it probably it's was directed at pointing out some of their errors and the OP doesn't feel comfortable been corrected that way they will just delete such post. There's still another way out for you to lock the thread and create a new one from which you can make self moderated even before posting.

Another way could be putting up a time frame to how long before you can no longer make a thread self moderated after posting just like the way it is with edit post such that even after 10mims of posting it will not reflect that such post was edited such be put in place for self moderation.

Changing intent midway through isnt ideal, it would also be a scammer play around here.

Maybe lock the post and create a new one with a disclaimer as to why you locked the first one?

It isnt ideal either, but its an option.