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In today's being the second day of the Glory Reign program, the general overseer of the Salvation Ministry Church, Pastor David Ibiyomie said, those who renders services in the church that are paid will never escape poverty.

-How True is This?

1 Timothy 5:18 , Luke 10: 7, Matthew 10:10 : The bible said a workman is worthy of his wages, the bible instructed that , the church should pay it elders and workers especially those that are teaching in the church.
https://www.dwellcc.org/essays/new-testament-principles-church-finance

Although pastors are humans therefore does not have the feature of infallibility but, they should make more researches to issues rather than putting their emotions into interpreting the bible.

The Winners Chapel in 2022 employed pastors on a payroll of 40,000 Nigerian Naira, does Ibiyomie mean his mentor , David Oyedepo is wrong or Jesus is wrong? Of course no and there is no such curse of poverty placed on church workers.

How does the church want a family man who is dedicated to the church work to survive to continue working in the church.

Do you think Ibiyomie is right?

Carry religious debate go were them belong and here to be were to judge which pastor they right and which one way they wrong beside you know no if everybody nah Christian for here all or, I know no how others go view this topic but to me I see am as watin suppose belong to off topic or some kind face book debate post and no be matter to carry come forum here were serious things need to dy discussed.

Boss dis place wey u dey no be church now, and no be because of conversation na y dem create dis local board now, you urself read Wetin you post for here, and compare am with d reason why dis forum was created, e no really go well now. Religion matter no suppose dey public place like dis forum now, seriously e no make sense at all, the best thing wey u go do now na to lock dis thread, and never create a thread like this again, and incase if you no lock am, me I don report the post give moderator, which I will encourage other members to do so, at least the thread will be taken down. Make we no use thread like dis create problem for ourselves.

Op by now you supposed know say we can't argue religion matter for here in the forum. Dis place no be to argue Bible or others but you can just ship in Bible stories in your thread as a reference Source. Like now how you want us argue shey him correct or not. E no dey possible. Him tok am for reason oh. I think other people sef e don tell you.

Na di mistake many people wey dey come dis forum dey do oh. Mostly those bible scholars. Wen dem come dem go leave weti carry dem come and preach di gospel to people to repent. Forum accept all that but you have to know when, where and how to use them.

I no really know why some people go they discuss these core religious subjects here when they do not truly reflect the essence why we are here especially with the subject like this.

But for the sake and spirit of contributions, I will like to mention that where you work does have really have t  anything to do with the the income you make per church. Working in the church should usually come with many arrangements as similar to the normal working environment.

Funke I think you should try to improve by watching what others are doing. Before was Popular Naija Short Stories in Schools (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5482488.msg63537004#msg63537004)  now is If you are paid while working for the Church , You will be Poor (http://httphttps://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5482841.msg63552670#msg63552670) if you continue like this people will not be able to take you seriously because it's like you don't know the main purpose of coming here. Christianity matter don't need to be argued. Many people might be Christians here but bringing a particular church and G.O here is like summoning demons to come for a feast. And when it start happening you might not be able to continue the conversation. So sudjest you Lock this topic. If you don't have tangible thread to create you can comment on people's threads thank you.

Op like seriously? You really create this thread for us to start to discuss religious matter? You don ever ask yourself the reason you come here, abeg stop this thing way you dy do abeg, just as wetin @pi-network don talk already, try look at wetin others dy do, try follow people wey know road abeg, because na for ur own good, see make I tell, anytime you no get anything to post just rest, because as a human being wey we be, we dy mostly give ourselves respect base on wetin come out from our mouth and our ways of doing things, so try your possible best to show maturity by staying mute if you have nothing to say, to save urself from unnecessary criticism.

Op we still dey complain about how to stop people from creating shitposts for the local board. You come still dey create your own. Ask me how this thread will help us talk about bitcoin. Make we no just create anything wey enters our mind just because say we dey find merit. If you no say your post no go dey helpful to us, just leave the post and contribute to other people's posts wey dey helpful, and you can still earn merit with other people's posts if you contribute a meaningful comment.

Fuck, if someone expects you to work and never get paid then it's wrong and what they are interested in the name of religion is old-age slave culture.

You can get our of poverty only if you make money, God ain't coming to save anyone and whoever says that are stupid, ignorant morons.

You can become rich even by doing crimes, that is the reality.

Many people who claim to be religious are lazy and this has made them ignorant. Every religion has Holy Books that should be a standard for believers to follow. These Books are supposed to guide these religious followers and anything outside the inspired work shouldn't be followed. But the problem now is that these so-called religious faithful are too lazy or busy to read these books. They now depend on men to interpret the content of these Holy Books. I don't criticise or judge any religious preacher because they don't force people to believe what they say and joining a religious organisation is not by force. If you don't like what a preacher is saying, the simple thing to do is not to believe or apply it, instead of coming up with attacks or open criticism. If a man decides that he wants to work freely for a church because he believes that God will bless him through his selfless service, that is his choice. But it doesn't also mean that another man who asks for pay from a church is wrong. Both of them are right based on how they see the topic or their beliefs.      

Are the pastors not being paid,were they not rendering services to the church, people try to defend some aspect and pretend they are normal while some areas they take with every seriousness, some are referring to the instrumentalist that played for the church, they will say that it's something better they left being unpaid for their service than collecting money for any service rendered, let everyone's guilty conscience keep hunting after him.

Are not most pastors want to serve the God and the church more instead of thinking about the profit?

Working for the church is not something to be considered if you think you can not gain any profit from it serving in the church should come as a will and not because you think you can make money from it anyway there are donations that come in to church but are still used for the development of the church and not of the pastor

Working for church and being a church worker is different. If someone has no other job and is going to labour daily in the church and working month to month, how do we expect the person to survive without being paid to take care of the family? Just like the pastor that benefits from the church including being paid salary as some churches do to full time pastors. After all some churches employee people that are not their members to do certain jobs for them like gate men and other services that they can't get members to do, don't they pay those people?

All the investment that churches have, like those that have schools, malls etc don't they pay works? Or is it only pastor that will be eating all church donations  ::) ;D

No one is actually wrong here and the word pastor Ibiyomie said  is not so bad to criticize him, any pastor that finds fault in his word is Just too lazy and idle to work hard, do you know people now play drum and instruments in the church all because of money. The church is not met for making money, you made a reference using a Bible verse and same bible said in 2 Thessalonians (https://web.mit.edu/jywang/www/cef/Bible/NIV/NIV_Bible/2THES+3.html) chapter 3:10 "if a man will not work, he shall not eat (NIV). You're actually saying preaching the word is now a daily job or what?, preach the word and let people have salvation and be free from sin not by extracting money from members or the church, that's very wrong and I love pastors who always preach against this act because the Bible never said this to be honest.

 this topic is a misplaced priority indisense that it doesn't belong here, we have platform for religious  matter and some time arguing on those believe may not add or subtract, because whoever that believe on something is already convinced on what he/she believed on, trying to forced yourself with your idea is like trying to take away it's right or freedom which don't always end well with such individual having such intension.but come to think of it every man know  there calling as carrier or talent which brings food to your table where your work have turn charity what else will you feed on, I think working for God should be of voluntary to avoid murmur which not scripturally accepted.

Dis topic don really provoke some of our naija people Wella, unto say dem reason say religious matters like dis no belong for dis forum, but make dem no vex, na politics and society section be dis and I believe say person fit to share wetin concern dem society for dis section of di board. For di matter wey the OP talk about, I reason say e de wrong for a pastor to say person wey de work for church and collect pay go de poor, anyway dat na im personal opinion and e no get anything to do with Christianity. So na wetin dem come de take tithe and offerings de do? Maybe to enrich only dem pocket, while others wey de do church work with dem no go collect any share, very unfair. Make christians try to de research for di Bible weda wetin dem pastors de tell den na true or lie, di Bible even encourage us to de crosscheck anything wey dem tell us inside the bible, weda na so e be or not.

Apologies to members that don't understand Nigerian, pidgin English.

I'll speak based on what I think, on my own opinion about this matter. There are churches that are happy when there are volunteer workers presenting themselves to do some church jobs and they're not asking for anything in return. And this is based on how they are happy serving the church and this is how they return the goodness of the Lord to where they're attending the church service.

We've got different understanding with what the verses says. I agree about that verse on Timothy that labourers are worthy of reward. But it's a case to case basis when you have been in the church and you understand the situation of them like in financial matter and they're not that much in abundance since it's either they're small and have got few members. Whatever is given to you should be grateful whether it's in the form of food, money or any kind of reward.

It's more of appreciation that you've been remembered and your labor out of your good will has been rewarded. Being full time is a different thing and I know the struggles of them. While people think that many pastors are making themselves fat with their tithes and money from their members. Those that are real with their service, you see them that they're generous to everyone especially their members whether they're working part time and being used for church services, full time or just casual church goers.

Please my brothers, this is a general board discussion and I don't know why Nigerians are responding in their local language. If you want to use your local language, then you can go to your local board and not on this.

Back to the topic, if you decide to work on your own free will, then you are free not to accept payment. Also it all boils down to the kind of work that one will get paid for in the church. If you are in the administrative section, that you go there everyday to carry out your duties, you are supposed to be paid. However, it depends on you and the head of the church agreement. From what I understand all pastors heading a branch is been paid only if they don't want to accept the payment. If you voluntarily go and be cleaning the church everyday to keep it neat, your reward will be in God's hand and it will be greater than the payment anyone will give to you.

The security people should be paid, if the church has an office and the pastor is always there to counsel people, then the pastor and his secretary should be paid, and any other vital position should receive payment.

Things like this happening are part of what other people believe that church are for buso now, we cannot even afford to render some personal sacrifices to the creator of our souls, everyone is being paid, honorarium that is being given in appreciation has now turned to rights that everyone will place demands on what he wants to be paid for rendering a service to the church.

Op, if you look around this discussion platform very well, you so purpose know that we discuss anything that related to politics and society but bring church things in this platform, it will make people not to be happy with you because, we have Christian, Muslim and other regions in this platform which everybody feel his own region is the best and, if you are bringing your region into the platform, it will make you feel bad with some kind respond you will get from people.

What are you expecting the pastor to tell his members and, if you understand the holy bible very well, you will no that serving God is not by force and if you are not comfortable with the man of God preaching you can leave the church, but don't go to church because of money if truly you are a genuine Christian.

I think this topic supposed not to be here. This is politics board not for religion discussions. You need to use your head and know the kind of irrelevant information you bring here. How do you want us to discuss about this when you have already backed it with the Bible verse.
Maybe this need someone from that same doctrine for a quick and shaor answers to your interests.
I am still thinking whether you wants us to counter the man of God or you want us to support him. All these are left to you!

I don’t believe this irrespective of the religion, and I think we need to be humane (especially in a place of religion). Ask yourself this question, those who are collecting money and working in church or other holy places, are they collecting the money because of greed or because they need it? We are humans, we need to survive. If the church makes money, why not give incentives to those who put in hardwork to  make things work? Without people there are no churches? The same with other popular religions. You get in and the building is arranged and organized because someone did it.

FYI


Mark 10:28-31:

Matthew 19:27-30:

Luke 18:28-30:

8)

My dear,you should have understand that, here in our country everyone interpretation from the Bible was never the same, because everyone what to be the highest and to have members in his or her church,so, I would have like to ask you one question, this pastor that said that anybody that is working for church or in the church and was paid for his work will never escape poverty ,i hope this pastor church use to pay title, offering or not,and where did all this money go to,but if this money is been taking care of by this very pastor,it means he will not escape the poverty too,you work in the house of God and someone said it's not good,but the words of God is being sold out there in daily basis, and even him the pastor may have some certain amount of money one needs to pay see him face to face and you think that is right,no it's not right who are you, are you God,no what of if you were God?.


My dear alot of people who claimed to be man of God today have turned Bible up side down 👇, confusing people, everybody should be very careful oooh and be not deceive...

OP, many people has responded this thread, they have tried in telling the right thing to do, religious matter like this should not be discussed here, everything should not make a topic, let's concentrate why we are here, despite that politics and society board here in this forum that wouldn't make us to deviate from the reason why we are in this forum, OP, looking at this your topic how does it correlate with what here is created for, I mean ni disrespect but I think before any thread is being created, the OP needs to consider if his message will have any impaction on the readers, learning should be a priority before you must write here. 

I don't support his idea,maybe there is a misconception of what he meant can you elaborate on this more ....
Mehnn 😔 Christianity and Her..

This depends on the kind of work. There are some sacrificial work you should do for free in church as a Christian. Example includes cleaning the church premises. As a church member, one should be able to do this for free unless you are directly employed by the church. But if the church employ you for your profession, they one needs to got some pay.

Their is nothing wrong if workers are being payed for their work in the church,  even in the holy book it is written that where a man's that is where he can eat. I noticed that some of the workers in church they have no other job , the only place they can make money is from their work in church.  For me I don't see it as something bad. Their some big worship centers that they have the goverment security men working their the church pay them for their job, so why would people want workers to work for free.

Then my question to you is, would you spend the time you would have spent to do a job out there just to do it for the church and not charge them money? Assume it is a constant job wherein you need to continuously do it.

Just before you say that you would do the job for free, I wish to remind you that churches across the world pay their pastors. If one church can pay pastors for the word they preach, why can’t it pay others who also put in the work to make the church better?

You mustn’t collect money from the church for your service but when you do, dint let anyone guilt trip you.

Many people do this. Think of the ushers in church who do volunteer work ushering in church services... without pay.

You conveniently left out the words of my post that you attempted to quoted. The point was that God will reward you for work you do for Him. Often doing work for the church is really doing it for God, although unfortunately, some people do work for the church for reasons other than doing it for God and His people.

Don't let anyone guilt trip you for anything. Why? Because, even if you sinned, Jesus died on the cross for all the sins of the whole world. There isn't anything left to be guilty for... except if you don't believe in Jesus and His work of salvation. But that's really the only thing. 1 John 2:2:
8)

How about the fact that pastors get paid? Why don’t they deny all the money and donations people make to the church? Why don’t they rather give the money to charity. I understand there is some reward by God but it’s okay to ask for payment if there’s need for payment. When you can be selfless, you can do that too. I think Ushers should be given incentives because they could do a lot of work and get stressed even more than the pastors. I didn’t intend to do a comparison but I think everyone should be humane.

Pastors are people. If they didn't get paid, they would only live for a month or two before they starved to death. Can't do a lot of preaching in a month or two.

Some pastors give back much or most of their pay.

Many pastors took out loans to pay for their training. It wouldn't be right to not repay these loans. Money from donations.

Some pastors are looking at the wrong idea. They want to build a big church building. I agree that they shouldn't do this... much of the time.

When Jesus told His apostles that they would get rich because of everything they gave up for Him, did it ever happen? Yes! After the Pentecost the church grew by leaps and bounds. They received loads of donations so that they were essentially rich. But they gave back everything that they didn't need to live on. You can find this in Acts, where they set up the group of Seven to administer their money, etc., to the poor and needy.

There's a right way and a wrong way. Some pastors do it right; some do it wrong. They are people. They all make mistakes now and again. And, unfortunately, some of them are crooks.

8)

Those workers that have dedicated their lives to serve and live full time doing church work don't have jobs and they understand what they are about to enter. It's all about faith and supplication based on their faith and you know with these people, they're humble at least for those that I've met. They understand how tough life is and they're grateful for whatever they receive and you'll give to them. There are even members that think badly about their offerings but it's all about the sustenance that's being provided to church expenses and also for the provision for these workers that have dedicated their lives to do these things.

Churches are also tax-free, this is what I know for some of the government and countries. And those churches that have big worship areas, the expenses there is surely a lot because of the electricity and other utilities and also the payment for the security detail as you've said. Everyone that's working in the church can either get paid or not based on the leader's thought. But I know if the pastor has a true heart, he'll never settle for these workers unpaid. The blessing flows based on their belief if they're all givers and everyone is going to benefit from that. It's hard to explain that but you just can't please everybody.

Not actually because you are rendering your service to the church or any other enterprise, you deserve to be rewarded unless you decide to work freely or give them a good discount for the respect of God, even if the salary is not as high as it might be in other fields because they are passionate about their and want to make a difference in the world, so financial wealth may not be our main priority, and they will also get opportunities from the church because the church may decide to offer them helps like healthcare, food stuffs etc.

Same way why pastors become more luxurious nowadays while their members become
poorer and poorer because of this kind of fooling , imagine discouraging those church worker
so the pastors will solo those contributions from the members,i remember when i am still active
in churching that I kept asking myself why my parents obligating themselves to give  money for
the church but we are eating too little tasty because of that contributing, this made me realized
that pastors are only fooling my parents and the poor members.

Ah swear, like what concerns politics and religion, who made you judge, the pastor have said his own and since this year you fit never read any bible but now you have done research because you feel you should say something.


Collect money from church for what work exactly, its God's work not man work, God surely rewards those that work for him in full, if the church agrees to pay you fine but if it doesn't fine, the bible also says through prosperity would my kingdom be spread abroad, so the church might be investing in building more branches. Don't let greed for money make you miss out on blessings, did Jesus not also say gather for yourself treasures unto eternal life?

Lol.... It depends. Maybe the pastor was not actually fooling your parents but your parents were only doing the part of the bible that says it is better to give than to receive. Yeah some parents have fear of God and they want to do all the preaching and the things bible ask to do so that you can attract blessings. If the pastor focus on those kind of preaching to the congregation, you will see some not adhering to it while some will and maybe your parents are part of those who keep to the preaching and things of the lord.

I think you are lucky to have had parents who like to sow with God. They have sowed in the pastor whether wrongly or rightly but in the face of the lord, they have reward that must surely come whether it is delayed or not and you will be a partaker of it. Things of God are things of faith and Karl Marx said it is the opium of the masses.

Let the decision be for the person who is rendering the service. If you read the replies just above yours, you may make sense of what I am saying. Pastors get paid. They eventually start affording luxury but you think that it’s wrong if someone asks for money to do something in church? If I was working and dedicating my time to any church, if they can afford it, I’d ask them to pay me, Maybe lower than usual but I’ll ask. the pastor has cars, etc. would be too bad if he/she isn’t pushing to make sure the workers around the church are paid. 

If a missionary wants to become full time in service, then it is a common practice that he/she will raise financial support from other people as his/her salary to provide his/her needs.  If it happens that he/she does not have any financial support from the church or fellow believers, then he/she needs another source of income (either a business or part time work) which will eat his/her time and he/she will not be able to do his/her God's work.