Bitcoin Forum

This was posted on cryptocrypt.org but is important enough for the community to know about it so John gave me his permission to repost it here.



They have a site set up at savegox.com

I'm not sure this will work but I like the idea of it. Getting rid of Mark and having a professional audit by people who care about BTC seems like a better path than what is on offer. Anyway open to your ideas and feedback.

-Goat-

http://www.coindesk.com/potential-mt-gox-buyer-exchange-important-role-bitcoins-future/

A bit more about this operation in the media.

How do we "reach out" ?

They need to talk to Adam B Levine and the group that has been working on the whole Gox tracking thing for months.

There are a lot of people who claim to know exactly where the coins are, and I have yet to hear anyone in authority acknowledge a discussion about it.

Which is really strange to me.

Maybe this guy is the one who needs to address those concerns, and tell everyone how he's going to facilitate the tracking of the "other coins"

-B-

They have great plan :
it is easy to say - hard to do but I wish them good luck...

I am all for it. First let us have a professional audit. There is still some lack of clarity on the exact number of Bitcoins stolen from Gox. I agree that that fat f##k Mark Kerpeles should be kept out of this, as he is doing all that he can to divert the investigations. Also, I want to know exactly how this much coins were stolen without anyone noticing anything.

It seems to me Mark is doing this liquidation thing to try to avoid jail and or get away with the extra coins. The Japanese Govt is not going to be able to track to coins so we need an audit.

Whilst the idea of Gox reappearing makes me uneasy, I don't like the idea of a significant number of people being out of pocket. I think this is the best plan on the table right now.

saving gox is impossible, just like that, period
too much money was lost

For me it is mostly about Mark being held accountable and finding the lost BTC.

I question that motivation. The primary concern should be making whole the victims of the collapse. Holding Mark to account should be of secondary concern - regardless of the personal satisfaction you might gain.

Given the choice between financial restitution and seeing Mark in a cage, I'm sure people would prefer their coins back....maybe it would be a close call :)

"Any appreciation in the value of bitcoins would be lost because of conversion of MtGox's 200,000 recovered bitcoins to fiat currency as part of the distribution of assets."

He speaks as though this is a fact and must happen. Why would it not simply be returned to the customers. Would be a lot easier than selling it all and returning it as fiat cash to the customers.

Pretty sure when the Govt of Japan sells all the assets of Gox they will see BTC as an asset. They will sell that for fiat.

Well I would agree if the found bitcoins is actually considered MtGox assets. But this could easily be viewed as customer assets that do not belong to MtGox. If that is the case then it is not for MtGox to dispose of. In their ToS they state that they hold bitcoin on behalf of the customers. When I deposit coins to MtGox I am not thereby giving them ownership.

It's no different from a stockbroker buying on behalf of his client. MtGox is literally a middleman or a strawman between buyers and sellers. It's just a platform that have no ownership interest invested in the assets deposited by their clients.

Pretty sure Japan is going to sell all the BTC and get fiat.

One thing worries me a little in his statement, "new exchange through a combination of equity interest and revenue share." Does he expect more Bitcoin users to come forward and pour more money down that gopher hole or is he offering equity interest in the new company to the current losers as recompense for their losses? In other words, if Gox owed you 1000 Bitcoins then you have a 1% share, if Gox owed you 500 Bitcoins then you have .5 % share, etc.

Returning as much fiat and bitcoins as possible to account holders is one thing, but saving Mt. Gox itself is completely unnecessary and counterproductive. Do people feel that Mt. Gox is too big to fail?

Im going to have to agree that this could be good..
Only if they do it the right way and remove any viruses from the company(mark, and the incompetent security team)

You are right, bankruptcy will only protect mark.
Gox was once the biggest exchange, and I could see it coming back with the right leadership and transparent business practices.
(Yes it is too big to fail IMO another exchange should have shot up, but that never happened)

It already did fail, and bitcoin has survived pretty much just fine. So much for TBTF.

So Mark is trying to liquidate the asset to save his ass. Does it going to account for the lost coin & fiat at Mt. Gox ?

Didn't Japan just announced that they were blocking the attempt to liquidate/rehabilitate Mt. Gox? Can this still be done despite that announcement? If Mark is out of the picture I think it's a good idea, if he is involved in any way, shape, or form, I think it's a terrible idea.

I joined. Take any straw even at the risk to be cheated again. Without a comment half a million coins are missing. That's completely crazy. Imagine the Louvre would be robbed down to the last picture. They would then declare oneself bankrupt, but no one would ask where the pictures are. Unimaginable.

Okay, Bitcoins are not art paintings, but much easier to track.

I have very little to loose at this point and only upside if it works.........

savegox.com ?
and who's gonna savegoxusers.com ? ..

This is a terrible acquisition offer. They're not proposing to take over the company and put enough money in to pay everyone off. No, they want to pay back customers from a share of "future profits".

The criminal investigation is more promising. That money went somewhere, and the bankruptcy trustee's job is to find out where and get it back. Now that the Tokyo police and the Tokyo district court both suspect an inside job, and Karpeles has been fired, I suspect there will be progress.

What is wrong in that? Why should they compensate the Gox customers? No one will spend BTC450k to acquire Gox. Gox customers should be compensated by Mark Kerpeles, not the new owner. Even if Mark K is kicked out of Gox, his responsibility does not end there. But the new owners should distribute the 200k stash which Mt Gox is possessing to the customers.

Opinion:

MtGox can fail, and Bitcoin can go on. However, there are supposedly 750k Bitcoin missing. If the "missing" coin cannot be followed to their final resting place and the Bitcoin community doesn't know who has them, then the entire Bitcoin ecosystem appears as tainted as any FIAT. There is more than MATH dictating the distribution. It is politics.

If the "missing" coins are clearly identified and the Bitcoin community in general agrees, then we might get somewhere positive. If the coin is returned, then the community does quite well.

It is about trust in each other - regardless of how much "trustless" is built into Bitcoin. Eventually, somewhere along the line, people must trust. Most of you trust that the power won't go out.

This is how I feel as a relatively early promoter of crypto-currency and Bitcoin specifically.

Site your source. All I know is MtGox claims to have lost the money. They have claimed a lot of things though, and with every statement they make they seem to loose more credibility.

So again, do we know that the "money was lost?"

Or LAZY.

They'd be better off spending that simply creating a new exchange and jumping through all of the legal hoops. IMO, there should be no imperative for any new owners to have to compensate for the failure/theft by Karpeles, he should take complete and utter responsibility and pay his dues either by returning the BTC or rotting in jail. Honestly though, even if there is an audit and new owners I'm doubtful it'll ever be restored to a point where it once was - there has been way to much negative media and stigma associated with Gox now.

Hi John, can you be more clear on this statement?


In particular, I am interested in the "Once the valuation is completed" statement. It appears that you wish to have your group investigate the data, then "value" the entity, and after that you will "remove the information vacuum".

A HERO individual or company would approach it like this:

First, remove the information vacuum.
Then begin the due diligence.
Let the market value the company.

In fact, if there are any takers for this approach, PM me.

Corporations dont work that way.  You can single out one person is responsible for all losses and leave it at that.  For starters every company in trouble would just find a scapegoat with no means to pay the debts and walk away from them on a regular basis and keep operating.

Theft may see him in jail but failures cant and wont.  IF we went that way if you made a mistake at work would you go "rot in jail" for it?

Current status:

Community:  200,000 BTC and the malleability lie detected.

Court and lawyers: None.

I agree with most of what you said but you are wrong about one thing - if you are in a very high position in a company like director or higher, you actually can be held responsible for failures due to incompetence/negligence. There is real precedent for this (at least in the US.) So yes, you could go to jail. I think there is a strong argument that Mark could be found both negligent and incompetent.

1. If court decide to sell OUR BTC at mtgox i will go to japan and there will blood!!!, only most retarded system would sell assets which can be split in fair way! (that would be insane! BTC is not something which can not be split so sell off is only way!)

2. The plan is nice, but the ppl/company that wish to buy out mtgox must prove their intention by some guarantee or some big $$ investment in new company! (sure in long run 500K validated accounts and the hype it can generate is not something small, the real benefit can be huge for whole BTC not just new company)

3. 200K is NOT 20%, you must know we don`t know the real audit balance! (I think its more like 30-40%)
- they must check all AML accounts for real persons
- they must decline all fake accounts, accounts of Mark K., McCaleb, etc... (FUK them!) and accounts of illegal business (like silk road, etc)

4. I think they don`t need to recover all lost but over time most to creditors and they need to have good plan

John Betts is a former Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs executive, and former child actor turned venture capitalist Brock Pierce, are a part of a group of investors who want to resuscitate Mt.Gox. http://siliconangle.com/blog/2014/04/17/does-bitcoin-really-need-mtgox-probably-not/

So selling your bitcoins for cash is an outrage but a fatfuck heisting them is no problem?
If you want to do something then you have to direct your actions towards the responsible (Mark K.) not the court which is actually trying to find solutions to the problems caused by Mr. Soonish-much-frappuccinos.

Now that he's out from his position of CEO, I really hope that he gets detained and pay for his crimes, no way he gets away with that and certainly no fucking way he gets away without telling us where the 650k remaining BTC are.
Who the fucks know he actually got them and he just heisted them, never going to happen  >:(
Never is he going to run away with a missing 650k BTC stash, I will gladly add up some BTC to the bounty for the "final solution" if this ever happens.

This is entirely true.

Brock and the team are doing it because it is good for the community. Brock is invested in many other BTC companies. Mt. Gox screwing over its customers (a large percentage of Bitcoiners) is bad for the community.

Court and lawyers are actually a large negative balance.
Sadly, the court costs and hourly lawyer fees will eat up a huge chunk of the 200,000 BTC.

@renfr
I don`t care for Mark K. i don`t know the full truth and I will let it be concluded soon in future, if he did wrong he should take the consequence

But our primary goal should be recovery for BTC as whole and % of our lost funds... and that goal for all must be CLEAR!

The most best and fair way Gox crisis take to conclusion it will more help a trust in BTC..... some new company with upgraded security and restored "trust" in BTC would help a lot in general

Just remember we have no safe heaven for exchange blindly trusting in bitstamp and BTC-e is same as insane, you can preach WE KNEW mtgox will fail, but that is just stupid and selfish way!, or we should know how to protect BTC! those are all excuses

BTC need SECURE exchange naw if we wont to restore trust in it!

What it will be called or how it is made is no important at all

...and to seek your support to convince the Supervisor not go down the liquidation route that will further hurt customers.
The decision to liquidate has already been made by the court.

Simple yes or no:
It is already too late to change the most recent court "decision", correct?

I am sure Court and lawyers and banks  will take the bulk of 200,000  BTC

must be a silly idea that may work - would it be possible to crowd fund a new mtgox IE  127000 customer put in 5 BTC each and own 1/127000 of the new mtgox


or the 550K customers put in 1 BTC and get 1/550k share

bitcoin need a trust worthy exchange ---- at present the biggest exchanges are in locations that have very little regulations

Those who have less than 6.5 BTC (5BTC +30% from 200k BTC) will not put 5 BTC as they will be losers in that story.
Only 2163 creditors have over 6.5 BTC, you will just get 10815 BTC if they all give 5 BTC each.
Never gonna work, ever.

If I have 4 BTC, why would I give 5 to lose 1 when liquidation would give me back at most 1,2 BTC or in any case a positive output?

So what ever happened to the 650k BTC where they sold on the exchange over the 2 years? How many hackers where their stealing coins and how long did it take to get 650k BTC?  How did Mt. Gox run for years with 650k BTC missing? Did it run like a ponzi? If so someone needs to go to jail.

There never was a hacker. Mark just lied to cover his ass., Cant wait for a real audit.

What did he plan on doing running a scam then he realized that there is no way to launder that massive amount of coins so he made up stuff.

Agreed. We should get one, too. That's what bankruptcy trustees do.

I suspect that this will eventually be resolved not by technical means, but by Mark Karpeles being arrested and interrogated by the Tokyo police.

savegox and other similar initiatives are fine and very welcome. I applaud everyone involved in these projects.
But for bitcoin to survive we need to find the lost 650KBTC, not other new 650KBTC. We need to find out what happened in mtgox. We can consider it an accident at the very beginning of the bit coin story, but this may become a fatal one for bitcoin itself. 7% of the whole monetary mass cannot be considered an accident. It's totally unacceptable and bitcoin won't survive.
Everyone in the community has to realize that it's imperative to join forces to discover the truth and recover the stolen coins. It's not just to refund creditors, it's because 7% in wrong hands will influence the future of bitcoin and at the end will cause bitcoin to fail.

I don't believe we ever find the missing bitcoins

see
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337




Bitcoin need a strong exchange to survive ---

It's a good idea.

Sure help them start up again, but collectively get in writing a contract that charges a gigantic amount of interest on the coins they stole/owe you, at least 30%.

Is there any chance of a neutral and professional audit happening before the likely liquidation of Mt Gox? Will the audit summary be published in public?

He was lying all the way. And just for that we can press charges on him for trying to cover up evidence, should be enough to send him to jail.

Beware Mark, japanese jails aren't funny at all : http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/08/world/prisons-in-japan-are-safe-but-harsh.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-40715/My-jail-nightmare-Sir-Paul.html

This is what japanese penal code says about suppressing evidence :

Do we know it's now a criminal case or is it still a civil proceeding?  If it's criminal now then he's fucked. If it's settled as civil business his business is fucked but he'll walk away.

It is just civil as he wont do an audit.

The best thing that can happen is he will be removed from the oversight of the company or the company will be liquidated to settle debts. The settlement liquidation in most US cases is pennies on the dollar with largest creditors reaping the highest reward. It will be interesting to see how the government determines who is owed in a Bitcoin case. I bet the presiding magistrate is thinking, "Could my luck get any worse. How did I get stuck with this case."

Even if it's just civil it doesn't mean it cannot turn into a criminal case.
If there's enough evidence to believe that he was trying to conceal evidence or criminal activity then he could be convicted.
And IMO the mere fact that he claimed a hacker sneaked into the server and heisted 850k BTC and then weeks after 200k BTC suddenly appear out of nowhere is enough evidence to prove he was lying all the way.

Let's see if we can somehow get you on the jury. lol

mark has still not filed for bankruptcy. he is sitting on millions in fiat in japan just lulzing at all of us suckers.

Karpeles was fired several days ago, when the court-appointed supervisor took over. As the court-appointed administrator put it, "The representative director of the Company has lost his authority to administer the Company’s assets pursuant to the order for provisional administration." When the bankruptcy trustee takes over, there will be an audit. That's standard.

Is there any chance this community will govern itself?

Ok but it's not like he can just run out and exchange them for fiat and run to Argentina. If he could even dump that kind of coin somewhere it would return the price of Bitcoins to a penny. To slowly dump that many coins he will need to slowly trickle them out over many years and by then something else will happen to him. Did you see the pictures of the protesters in front of his building? If there are people willing to spend their time and money to protest. He needs to worry about people willing to spend their time and money on more than just protesting. I don't think this is going to end well for him and I'm not talking about a criminal case. I wonder if any of those coins belonged to the Russian mob or a drug cartel?

Even if there is a liquidation, anyone can come along and buy the name, user list, domain, logo, website, code, etc... and I suppose Bitcoin, and restart a new company with everything in tact except the debt. There are probably limitations on who can buy it. For example, Mark would not be allow to purchase it.

There are assets there and they do have value. The question is, "how much?" This will largely depend on the value of Bitcoin itself.

Hope that it will be sold all in Bitcoin and all goxed customer paid in Bitcoin.

Re: Save Gox
---------------

Lesson #1:

 Never Reward Failure.


Lesson #2:

 Mt. Gox is ruined.


Lesson #3:

 Those bidding a lone 1 btc for Mt. Gox are simply vulture parasites.



The most important lesson:

 Real capitalists never reward failure, let alone fraud with failure.
=========================================



The Last Lesson here:

 The only other valuable asset left at Mt. Gox is the mailing list of customers.

 The parasites bidding a lone 1 btc for Mt. Gox desire that mailing list
and could care less about the rest of Mt. Gox. Their simply scammers.
Above all else they want the sole rights to that mailing list for next to
nothing at all (in this case 1 single bitcoin).


 Anyone wanting to 'save Mt. Gox' isn't a Capitalist at all.
====================================


 It's assets (the mailing list) needs to be auctioned off. And the rest of
it liquidated.

 In real capitalism the strong hands take over after the weak hands fail.
The western world used to operate that way until the parasites and
maggots fully hijacked and compromised the western world.

 Sadly a generation is now being taught to reward failure after failure
mixed with fraud after fraud.


 How dare you behave like a bailout queens while scamming up yet
another scam!

 NEVER REWARD FAILURE.

 Repeat after me:

NEVER REWARD FAILURE.

 Only Losers Crooks, and Parasites demand to reward failure.


 
Caveat emptor

The new investor who want to bid on Mt Gox of course don't reward a failure. They just see an opportunity from this failure company.

Is this a joke? Mtgox is dead. Second Market is coming to the game with an exchange based in NY that can handle millions of trades a second.. This is game over... Anyone who lost BTC @ Gox needs to realize this and move on. Yes go after mark in the legal sense but that's about it for gox and the coins.. There gone.

How are "there" gone if they just found 200k bitcoins ? How do you know that under pressure they'll not "find" another 200k ?

And to the guy above with the " In real capitalism the strong hands take over after the weak hands fail. "  what are the strong hands that took over after mt gox ? What better exchanges emerged after  ? None, zero, nada. We need much more exchanges than those 2 in Europe.

And if Gox is bought by some knowledgeable people it will be just like a new exchange, it won't have anything to do with the old management, so you all don't have to be so afraid.

That's why I said to go after mark legally. Try to find them, although I think they're gone and lost forever like my darling Clementine.

And like I mentioned above.. Second Market is entering the exchange game. They will offer a user experience like no other! Mark my words on that.

We don't need millions of trades a second. Gox averaged about two trades a minute. Gox talked about their "new high-speed trading engine" in development, but that wasn't their problem at all.

They're somewhere. We'll probably find out where after enough evidence is obtained for the Tokyo Metropolitan Police to arrest and interrogate Karpeles.

For those who don't know this, police interrogations in Japan are much tougher than those in the US. They normally last 23 days.

Don't be so short sighted!  Gox was a mess from the beginning and the shitty laggy engine was behind all the first issues and major price crashes.

A major exchange run by Second Market will become the pinnacle of bitcoin trading.

This is a nice article on Karpeles carelessness:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/21/us-bitcoin-mtgox-karpeles-insight-idUSBREA3K01D20140421

We're expecting self-regulation but can't clean up our own messes...

Nice read, thanks. That's the problem with trusting a company. How do you know the owner isn't completely nuts?

You should have know he was in 2011 when he went around this forum claiming his customers were terrorist and money launders for following the instructions Mark gave himself.

Yeah, guess that's true. We all should have seen it coming but hindsight is 20-20.

i was trying to warn people.

I remember Goat. You tried to warn people as early as the end of 2011 about Gox at the same time I was warning people about pirate. We should have listened to each other.  ;)

lol, fair enough :)

I had only vague suspicions about Gox until the "hiatus in withdrawals" last June. That was a huge red flag. When a real brokerage does that, like Lehman did, they're out of business within hours. I've been posting that Gox was probably broke (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=249490.msg2654325#msg2654325) since July 4, 2013, when their two-week "hiatus" ended and full withdrawals didn't resume. 

Save Gox people on Lets Talk Bitcoin.

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/ltb102-savegox-and-the-show-floor/

This whole thing seems very sketchy. There's still no sourcing or substance to their claims about what would happen under liquidation, and they throw in some more unsubstantiated FUD as well, like talking as if the fact that Japan doesn't recognize bitcoins as currency means they'll mysteriously decide they don't have any value.

If somebody really was going to take this thing on their big problem would be trust, and the only way to get it is to be absolutely honest and straightforward. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not seeing that here.

Since Gox couldn't be trusted, which exchange can?

If Bitcoin does what it claims, then more than one person knows where the Bitcoin is.

Yes, that whole "buy Mt. Gox for 1BTC" thing seems sketchy.

With their scheme, they pay off some customers with some of the known assets, pay off other customers with future earnings if any, and get to keep any assets recovered once they're in charge. That's suspicious. Almost as if they know where some of the missing assets are.

It's better to let the bankruptcy trustee and the Tokyo police go to work. With full access to all Mt. Gox records, the block chain, and outside experts, they should be able to find out where the missing assets went. With a little more data, they'll probably have enough to arrest and interrogate Karepeles.

This just had to be an inside job.

The only way to save gox is to return the money that was 'lost' back to its rightful owners. 
Thats pretty much it.  Theres nothing else to trust about the brand.

Any news from these guys (directly from them or indirectly from other surces affecting their possibilities)?

"Karpeles wanted to be liked, three former employees say. He bought lunch for the entire staff and spent thousands of dollars on gadgets and equipment to make the office more "fun" - exercise balls for chairs, beer steins and robots. Late last year, in the middle of increasingly strained times for Mt. Gox, he spent an afternoon putting up a hammock in the recreation room.

But staff found it galling that the boss was buying these goodies even while he refused to give pay raises. They also became frustrated as they waited for Karpeles to authorise decisions or make progress on simple tasks. Developers, stuck without direct access to the Mt. Gox source code, resorted to playing video games, people inside the company at the time say.

Employees were also concerned that Karpeles' tight grip on all company affairs was causing a bottleneck: he was the only person who could access the exchange's bank accounts and bitcoin holdings and resolve requests by traders to cash out."


Criminal or wasteful stupidity?
Looks like both at the same time.

To bad they can't just proportionally give the 200,000 BTC back to all the Mt. Gox users. This would be like a 25% payout of your balance. Even better some accounts are criminal accounts with no aml information and some users may never redeem there coins so ideally it is possible to get more then 25% of your accounts funds back.

Of course this will never happen they will just use customer funds for their own expense. And the CEO will pay him self over and over again. Any additional funds left over will be wasted on legal fees. It's bad they only give us 5% back but its taking so long it looks like you'll only get 0% back.

hope btc venture capitalist save Mt. Gox .
 :D

Bitsimple.com has never had a complaint.

No absolutely not

Massive mental illness. Personality disorder, schizophrenia etc.

MK, the Joker of Bitcoinland

http://news.networkmagazine.com.tw/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/joker_bitcoin-1.jpg

http://www.coindesk.com/investor-group-optimistic-fight-mt-gox-liquidation/
This was in the media again today with more details of the proposed takeover.

It seems clear that the only way creditors will receive more than the 200k BTC is if the company is generating revenue again or if the assets are sold.  Their considerably large customer database of already AML verified users is worth something to another company if they have the banking licenses to use it effectively.

However the way this investor group proposes to restart Gox seems like a terrible deal for the creditors.


Seriously?  The new investors are taking ownership stake and risking none of their own skin entirely at the expense of the creditors?  That is quite absurd.  Do people know what they are signing up for?

This might make sense if the new investors are putting in new money to the tune of $10's of millions.  The currently proposed deal is only upside, which is hardly appropriate.

I agree. Essentially, creditors are asked to fund a new startup with an uncertain future. There are probably better places to invest your money than a resurrected Mt. Gox.

The other mysterious thing about this is that when they're talking to the community to drum up support for their plan, they talk like all the customer deposits are customer assets, not Gox assets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqaCNScwpGw&feature=youtu.be

But then if you look at the leaked court filing, it calls for spending JPY 816 million of "cash owned by Mt Gox" building a new exchange:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/219613733/sunlot-holdings-proposed-rehabilitation-plan-ENGLISH

It sounds like they'll now submit a new plan, since the court's reply to their original one was "lol", but looking at their original intentions, it seems like either:
a) They were going to intentionally misappropriate customer assets to fund their new exchange.
b) They're lying to the community about how they see the status of their deposits.

It seems to me like this whole thing, as it relates to people who had fiat or coins in gox, comes down to:

Choice #1:
Support this and get 23% of what you had, but not be able to move it out of gox for 1 year.
You can get paid back for the rest of the loss over time if this exchange does well.

Choice #2:
Don't support this, liquidation will happen.  You will get (at current exchange rates) about 27.5% of what you had.
Lawyers fees and any other debts gox had that we don't' know about could reduce the 27.5% number..

"Mental illness" is not an excuse for crime.
People are still responsible for their actions.

Is this only a twosome, or can I turn this convo into a ménage à trois? Talking-about-old-times speaking, that is.

Speaking of old times and speakeasies, do you, two, remember this thread? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=39476 ? Do you recall the fall guy's name? Do you recall the allegations directed at said fall guy, hence his leaving on his own accord?

Fast forward to what I penned ~18 hours ago:


http://web.archive.org/web/20080202014535/http://virtuallyblind.com/2008/01/30/ige-pierce-debonneville-complaint/


In essence, this is what the Mt Gox deal consist of:

Mt Gox, once a fantasy trading card company turn crypto-currency stock exchange, will be handed over for the large sum of 1 BTC (~$500 USD at this penning) to an entity that once traded virtually currencies but, when it folded, one of its main stockholders was left with nothing even though he ran the biz while the main dude was residing behind bars addressing paedo- allegations in a country known for Running of the Bulls. (trust me, it gets better)

The new entity overseeing Mt Gox promises to make its customers as whole as possible provided they pay for the service, and we know their promise will be good, for if you visit the last link above, you'll witness first-hand this to be true.

Meanwhile, The Mighty Ducks actor has a vested interest in KnC who, BTW, is happily mining away on ~7,000 bitcoin miners, of which their customer base are not happy campers once that was revealed.

Question: What does a guy named John Betts (interesting name, you think?) smoke so that he believes Mt Gox can be revived and turn a profit with an alleged paedo- at the helm, when the last Bitcoiner, justly or unjustly, accused of such is no longer around due to fellow bitcoiners no longer wanting to deal with him?

There's a helluva lot more I could add to all the above, but I'll simply stop right here so that those who took, or are still taking the slow bus to school can absorb what's been expressed to date.

~Bruno Kucinskas

PS: When the smoke settles, perhaps Mark Karpeles could reunite with his ex-roomie, whereupon he'll hold doors open for him once again.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3823/12807827465_f4be100f83_m.jpg

I might as well add this, for I just found it after several attempts: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RYF8vkh-UIoJ:www.bannerwitcoff.com/patentarcade/docs/DebonnevillePierceAmendedComplaint.pdf+&cd=13&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us (Google cache oppose to PDF)


Feel free to read all 20 pages of the complaint, for it's an interesting read, paying close attention when you toward the end, i.e...


In case you forgot where you've seen that Yantis name before, allow me to remind you...

http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=886929F6-0D1B-0385-6B9A8A97D17C38B1

I couldn't help but notice that nobody with a spine has weighed in on this subject probably because they don't want to be attached to chiming in on the wrong side of the fence bearing Brock Pierce's name.

If you recall the perks that Mark Karpeles doled out during his tenure at Mt Gox, you're going to love this next tidbit: http://www.lewterslounge.com/2008/01/rise-and-fall-of-ige.html


Again, feel free to read the entire fascinating article.

From the Sunlot proposal:

"Sunlot Holdings Limited is a special-purpose investment vehicle registered in Republic of Cyprus".

Not a good sign.

Did I give you permission to read ahead?  ;)

Here's a video where William Quigley expresses how he's put together a great team to oversee the new Mt Gox: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9UCRbGD4Y

For those asking themselves if William Quigley ever worked for Disney like Brock Pierce has, the answer is yes.

To put this thread in context, if Hal Finney is Satoshi Nakamoto and is reading this thread, Mrs. Finney is currently having a very difficult time reading his eye movements to get a bearing as to what Hal's saying/thinking.

Hi Bruno, I haven't seen a good old fashioned wall of text in a week. How was your vacation?

Or the choice nr 3, the option which most here will say it will happen :
 Mark Karpeles will pay himself most of the money because corruption and bla bla, the lawyers will get most of the money because bla bla... , the liquidator will sell all 200k btc with 10 $ per btc to an acquaintance of his because corruption bla bla... and of course the users will get zero, or maybe some pennies.  So... what to choose ?

This save gox campaign was a joke.  Offering 1 BTC?  I don't know who is more foolish, the people trying to make a name for themselves with this ridiculous offer, or the idiots who believed this scenario was possible...

William Quigley, who worked at Disney the same time Brock Peirce did, explains the 1 BTC offer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9UCRbGD4Y

That was actually the old proposal. I've been told that we will not be dipping into any customer balances.

Hey, bud. Would you be kind as to clarify the "we" in the above?

The Sandlot folks.

Also hi! It has been awhile :)

Why do you care ? Since people like Jr65 say the clients will get zero coins anyway. So where's the risk ? It can't be any worse than zero, no ? But at least there's a chance with the Save Gox campaign.

It seems the clients have to choose between the liquidator selling all the coins with 10 $ per coin and the clients getting zero / and the chance that some investors restore Gox and maybe the clients will get their money back, 20% now and the rest in 5 years.

I've been a mtgox customer since 2011.  I can't say I really do care, as I have already chalked up funds left there as a total loss.  I'm just astounded by the arrogance of some guy who actually believed he could purchase the company for 1 BTC because he has deep pockets...  It was a shameful power grab and those in the media and these forums who pretended like this was even a possibility should be embarrassed that their greed and gullibility has been made so public.

Lol, the ignorance of some  ::)

I'm not saying it is going to work, but there is much more going on than you know about. You are not needed to be in the loop and clearly no one bothered to inform you other than what people in this thread have spent their good time doing. You can bitch and cry all you want but the big boys are hard at work. Keep operating your two bit illegal operation and let us do our thing in an open and legal way.

For the people who do want more info expect more to be made public next week.

I'm also in this boat but I'm also skeptical. Why continue to operate the Exchange?
The largest revenue will be the redevelopment of the embezzled Bitcoins. And only for that purpose Gox has to stay alive for a while.
After this Gox can be buried. But before that Karples or his successor(s) have to explain where over half a million Bitcoins ended up or they have to hand out all the data to the community.

Without this Bitcoin is dead overall for me. It remains then in a very strange state and I do not want have anything to do with such racketeering.
For the technical little gizmos that amuse me so I can also use the testnet.

Goat, you are not a part of this.  You keep pretending that you have something to offer the Bitcoin community, but you are scum and a scammer.  You are trying to make yourself seem important by posting this stuff along with other stuff you have nothing to do with, like any legitimate person would do business with you.  Keep it real.  You are a douchebag who made some money scamming people by pretending to run businesses that were nothing more than pass-thrus for pirate's operation before Bitcoin rose in value.  You have nothing to add to the community and you pretending that you have any part of any pretend buyout is as shameful as you posting links to other crypto forums hoping to poach members from here. 

In short.  Goat, you are a worthless leech to the Bitcoin community and you have never offered anything worthy of a second look.  You are pathetic and nobody likes or respects you.

I am very skeptical as well but I have a direct line to John Betts and he has told me about his plan in confidence. I can't give details but I know more info is coming out soon.

Even knowing what I know I'm highly skeptical however option A. letting Japan do it, is not exactly great either.

Honestly my main goal in supporting this is not getting back the coins but wanting so see Mark and the others either go to jail or at least get their assets taken away. Would not be cool if Mark get to keep his $50M USD in fiat. It seems they will try to go after them as sort of good PR for the public. Their plan could work, but I at this time think getting the Japanese Govt to go along with it, as a long shot at this point. Still I'm interested and willing to help get the block of voters I work with to support for this if it can be supported.

We will see in time.


@OgNasty Your bitching and crying is now off topic, lol.  Also your personal threat of violence you sent to me in PM was classic you. Your lies and threats do not hurt me. If this is the only way you can now attack this effort fine, but at least be honest about what you are doing. Other people are trying to do better things here in the BTC world, you are just trying to sabotage good work again like you have since 2011. Grow up little boy. Having part of the discussion on this forum might have been a mistake because of people like you just want to like and troll because you lack anything better to do. There was no reason to go off topic other than to try and make your ego feel better. Hope it worked for you...



I'm going to lock this thread, I'm done with low life trolls. If anyone who can be respectful want's to talk about this somewhere else PM me and I'll keep you in the loop.