Bitcoin Forum

Thoughts?

I except to be able to pay at local shops with crypto. Also the people who have started now with Bitcoin/Litecoin/Dogecoin will be rich in 10 years. At least that is what I hope :)

why do you think dogecoin and litecoin will still be relevant in 10 years, that sounds crazy to me.

dogecoin is dead already. its just no one has told the relatives yet and they are still holding on in hope that their dear dogecoin will come walking in with a bright smile on its face, filling the hole in their lives.

Dogecoin is an at all time high and Litecoin has a pretty big market cap. Please tell me why Lite and Doge won't be relevant.

Litecoin I doubt being relevant, it is bitcoin with a different name. Not got the best community, no real innovation, not even standing up to original claims.

Dogecoin I feel is more likely, just because of its community.

I guess here is an argument against Litecoin: https://www.litecoinpool.org/pools
They are closing in on a mining pool which has more then 51% of the mining.

lies
february 22: 0.00000214
may 11: 0.00000105

litecoin is still growing it is on par with bitcoin in 2012 (3 year old) it has projects still in the works.
dogecoin. apart from alot of hoarders and traders on unsecured exchanges (meaning not bitstamp or btc-e) i cannot see any innovation or methods to buy dogecoin direct. but you can deposit actual dollars into btc-e and buy litecoins. is used by actual merchants and there will be a litecoinlocal.com

so i would not put doge in the same category as bitcoin or litecoin

a 51% hashrate just means the 'possibility' that the mining pool owner can inject nasty code and get accepted. it does not mean a guarantee of attack as the mining pool owner can easily be honourable, own 99% of hash power but never change the code and everything will be fine

The problem with doge is, it doesn't take itself seriously enough to be a commercial crypto. It could easily be replaced with another altcoin in the 'doesn't take itself too seriously' category. Litecoin will always be the 'silver' to Bitcoin, so it can't also replace Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the 'be all and end all'

Excuse me, I thought it was at an all time high. Thank you for your input.

There will be thousands and thousands of different cryptocurrencies and everyone will get tired of them

In 10 years there are 0 cryptocurrencies. And over 10,000 E-currencies.

All the junk coins will be gone and a few will remain.

Ummyes, all shitcoins will be gone, ofcourse.


But there will be a new thing called PRIVATE e-currency. Opposed to public, as all are now. Will be used for big familys, companys and smaller ethnic groups living in another ethnic groups country.

Dogecoin went viral as a meme...
And because of that, could have been
maybe successful.  But it became clear
(at least to me) that it is too inflationary.

Too many doges are created and will be
forever, which is why the price keeps
sinking.  (There is more supply than demand)

One advantage of Litecoin is faster confirmations. Some people might want and choose Litecoin over Bitcoin IMO.

what good would private e-currency is it's decoupled from the rest of the world? it's like i gave monopoly money to all my family members, its value is worthless to the rest of the world

Is it? I think not. As long as the family/group is expanding it's very worthFULL. Also great as store of value.

Something is only worth as much as everyone agrees it's worth as much. I can declare that my $1 monopoly money is worth USD1000, but, would the rest of the world pay USD1000 for my $1 monopoly dollar?

No. But if you and your 1000 friends all agreed on that NuffCoin is worth 10 dollar you can all trade with eachother using a NuffCoin thats worth 10 dollar. If someone sells their share for an outside currency that don't have to affect the group of 999 individuals at all. It just means they changed 1 share-holder to another. Closed e-currencies will be a reality, trust me. Just like countries today close their markets for outside manipulation and take-over same will happen with e-currencies.


"Yeah but what if 10% of this 1000 group all did it at the same time"

Well, let me tell you something. The western world consists of super-societes with people moving back and forth between different cities(super societes) all the time. Most of the world DOES NOT. Most of the humans on earth live their whole lives in the community they grew up in. Hard to understand for a modern westerner perhaps, but a fact. And this is NOT going to change in the way that everyone becomes "modern people". QUite the opposite. The western world will become more like the third world and vice versa. Either way the majority of humans will live in smaller communities/huge families connected to the greater GLOBAL super-society thus making it a very necessary thing to protect your groups economy(energy/life-force) from the outside.

Because of the increasing regulation and an obscure overcomplicated taxation system, crypto coins will never exists as an easy-to-use payment like PayPal, Credit Card or some future Apple or Amazon payment method. If the avarge Joe choices to invest in cryptos anyway, he has the choice between weeks long verification marathons OR travelling a long distance for a meeting with a shady person.

Due to lack of usability for legal purposes (see above), crooks will increasyly involve cryptos in illegal activities and because of increasing illegal activity, govs will tighten the restrictment until the solely posession of crypto is threatened with a fine or even jail.

Trusted computing, internet censorship and elimination of cash will accelrate the process of thinning out the blockchain nodes connectivity.

If a small group agrees that 1 NuffCoin is worth 10 dollars, and uses this system to trade balances between group members, then how is NuffCoin different than an accounting system?  And what prevents there price from diverging from 10 dollars?  Are NuffCoins backed somehow?

Can you explain the value proposition of these private e-coins in more detail?

You don't see "increasing regulation" in the legacy financial system coupled with an "obscure overcomplicated taxation system" as an impetus for bitcoin adoption? 

One of the main advantages of bitcoin is that any user can send funds to any other user anywhere in the world without the assistance of a third-party or the permission of a government.  Bitcoin is designed to route around red-tape. 

Dogecoin will be relevent exactly because the above negativity is very unattractive. 

WDC $150
LTC $700
NMC $450

Coinbase already has a fairly easy payment system.
Who is waiting weeks?  I can buy coins instantly on Coinbase
as well.  And internet censorship would only hasten the
flock to distributed systems.

hundreds of cryptosurrencies will go away and only 2-3 of them will remane. They will become popular worldwide

which of the already existing currencies will become popular in your opinion?

generally agree...although could be maybe 5-7... 2 or 3 big ones and 3-4 lesser used but still
accepted

I'm pretty sure one of them will be bitcoin. Other could be completely new

No.
I don't call it adoption if avarge Joe avoids crypto because he would have to do verification marathons before selling or buying crypto.
I don't call it adoption if avarge Joe avoids crypto because it requires a pile of paper for buying a coffee at Starbucks with crypto.
For the minor part of the population, cyber criminals, this is probably just a solvable problem because they doesn't have to bother with the compliciated taxation system anyway. They only have to find a way to buy or sell anonymously.

Still ... yes. I don't think this "easy buy easy sell on Coinbase" will last long, not even 10 years.

As long as the internet censorship is "only" filtering for traffic and ports, cryptos could survive certainly.
But if the world wide censorshop really manages to go that far in allowing only connections to pre-defined nodes which requires a valid license and a mandatory certificate (no P2P traffic between arbitrary IPs anymore) combined with a mandatory trusted computing secured device to connect to the "internet", then I could imagine that all cryptos really disappear.

If that happens, then we have bigger problems to worry about than Bitcoin.

http://www.cryptocoinstats.com/priceforecaster.php

https://i.imgur.com/Mvb4Dwm.png

as you can see all altcoins have a short period of increased value and start to decline from there, litecoin seems to be the only exception for now, following the same trend as bitcoin. However even litecoin will most likely never replace bitcoin and will most likely fail as well as all the other altcoins.

Just to imagine I think that only crypto currencies will exist, may be key will be integrated into human bodies, like in Johnny Mnemonic movie. But it's only fantasies. Everything depends now on government and how they will take bitcoin and other currencies.

They'll probably be gone and replaced by something else.

I think they'll always be around in some form. If they're not the same as they are now it'll be something similar based on the technology. It will b interesting to see if any countries actually adopt a crypto model, though I guess they'll usually like to keep the power for themselves.

Will be replaced by the next great innovation and will watch their market share dwindle down to nothing.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fEz7hxVk7Q4/TZIFhgx4JyI/AAAAAAAAWHI/vAZYsvnwJ7s/s1600/chart-of-the-day-myspace-ad-revenue-march-2011.jpg

There will be one main crypto - probably Bitcoin, maybe Litecoin or something else. It will be accepted pretty much anywhere and used with plastic cards similar to credit cards. Smaller cryptocoins might be viable in specific fields.

NEM.  ;D

 I believe that bitcoin is replaceable by another, with the price there on high, he probably worth some ten thousand, becomes merely speculative, because who accept a coin of 10 - 100K which has a range of hundreds of USDs every minute?

A coin that has a control deflation/inflation, price stability, fair distributed between big part of the population of the earth would be what one might call Ideal Money.

who is to say what is "fair distributed"?

No, that is not true at all.

No they won't. If you think about the top coins now, maybe, maybe not. Crypto-currencies are for the future and here to stay.

Yeah , there's something fundamental about this invention
and its hard to picture what, if anything, could be "next".

Kind of like the Internet -- will it ever be replaced?
Will electricity be replaced by something else?
Will the wheel ever be replaced?

Nice art.

+1

It most likely won't in the near future. At least I think so. You (and we all) will see that. Technology and innovation is not moving as fast as it should be.

Which one, the wheel?  :D

everyone uses decentralized banks so that crypto currencies have the purchsing power of whatever asset you want. every store accepts crypto currencies.

only Litecoin exists. Charles Lee will be the president of china and we will all look like dogs.

Not really sure what an accounting system is, sorry ;)

It really doesn't have to stay at 10 dollars or any fixed value, most likely it wouldnt. If it's a group of 1000 working people their collective value should rise every day, if they put in 1 extra hour of work every day on top of being self-sustained.

I don't deal with details I'm afraid, I'm a Guru not a scientist. Imagine if for example Auroracoin would start being used by all people on Iceland. That would make it possible for them to start putting their savings in their own e-currency, right? That would lead to a "bubble" as soon as it started, ofcourse. Even without outsiders interfering. Anyway, why would they want outsiders to be able to withdraw holdings of Auroracoins when the value rises? And, why would they want to let outsiders be able to manipulate the price and sucking out value?

edit:
just look at todays currencies and economys. They are being protected in many many countries. Just not USA and EU(All rich countries basically).

/Guru

MySpace is a company, Bitcoin is a protocol

The internet is a protocol, nothing similar to the internet preceded it and nothing similar will replace it. The protocol will simply be updated.

Same will happen with bitcoin, the protocol will be updated where necessary and nothing needs to replace it.

The infrastructure around bitcoin is too large to just be replaced every few years, it took years to build and it's far from complete. No way merchants, banks, exchanges etc. will change to the newest altcoin all the time just for some random functionality that bitcoin doesn't have but the altcoin does or claims to have, it will be far too costly, it's far easier to just update the bitcoin protocol and no infrastructure needs to be changed drastically.

Doesn't matter. People are fickle. The newness will wear off and something else will come along or something will happen that makes people want to move on. The infrastructure for WAMU and many other banks was too big to be replaced too. Except they're gone.

Bitcoin is a peer2peer network that has a protocol, just like the internet is a network that has a protocol. These are organization and their protocol is their governing structure, in the same way that governments and companies have their own constitutions.

For you to say that nothing similar to the internet preceded it is fundamentally wrong, it simple produces more value than any of its antecedents.

Also you clearly are not aware of the tech behind the infrastructure of bitcoin. It is trivial to replace bitcoin with an alternative. There is nothing costly about it. What is not trivial is updating the bitcoin protocol... not because of the coding required but because of politics.

Actually WAMU wasn't replaced it was absorbed into chase.

I apologize for putting so little time in explaining that 1. Put it together in a retarded way. THe knowledege is there to pick up though, at least if you're a cryptographer  :o :D

In this case, "something" may be replaced by a better version, whereas the bitcoin is a concept and not a "product".

The internet (WWW) and P2P are not the same thing? If not, the second is better than the first.

The electricity: First came the Direct Current, which was replaced by the Alternate Current.

The wheel already exist trains that rely on magnetism.



This site can tell http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100

I think you can go even further.  Bitcoin is both a payment system (nodes, miners, protocol) and a ledger of stored value (distribution of wealth encoded in the blockchain).  Even in the unlikely event that something was found lacking in the payment system at some point in the future, people wouldn't tear up the ledger at the same time.  They would instead use this ledger to boot-strap the new payment system / currency.  The average user would only be lightly inconvenienced.  

The blockchain is an unforgeable global ledger with 21 trillion "spots" on it.  Each spot is 1 bit.  You can prove ownership of these spots by producing an ECDSA signature with your private key, and you can reassign these spots to different people the same way.  People are willing to trade real goods in exchange for spots on this ledger because they know someone else will trade them goods at a later date in return for those spots.  So these "spots" on the big global ledger are a universal tool that makes bartering easier (they solve the double coincidence-of-wants problem).  

When viewed from this perspective it becomes more clear that the "newness" of the blockchain is actually a negative.  In fact, as it becomes more "boring" it actually becomes more legitimate and harder to tear apart or abandon.  When we finally stop even thinking about what those spots on that unforgeable global ledger are, and we just accept it as "money," then it will be as entrenched as it can be.  

The only reason the economic majority would want to abandon the dominant global ledger is if it was no longer perceived as legitimate.  If it becomes clear to the people of the world that the distribution of wealth encoded by the blockchain is hurting rather than helping mankind, then they will abandon it for a new ledger.  This would be a sort-of jubilee mechanism.  Since bitcoin can still grow by at least 3 orders of magnitude and there is very little bitcoin-denominated debt, something like this would be a long long ways away.    

Watch the movie "In Time"...that will be cryptos.

heres one that has the highest probability of long-term viability

(whatever your definition of long term may be after a little research you may feel the same way too)

http://myriad.theblockexplorer.com/ (http://myriad.theblockexplorer.com/)

The last time I gave my opinion on this subject my post was deleted. lol

I'll think Andreas hits the nail on the head in this video: http://altcoinpress.com/2014/04/andreas-antonopoulos-cryptocurrency-is-a-language/

looked into it, mining is asinine, so i would have to say that this isn't a long-term viability

-------------
as·i·nine
ˈasəˌnīn/Submit
adjective
extremely stupid or foolish.
"Lydia ignored his asinine remark"
synonyms:   stupid, foolish, brainless, mindless, senseless, idiotic, imbecilic, ridiculous, ludicrous, absurd, nonsensical, fatuous, silly, inane, witless, empty-headed;
-------------

so your point is that mining it is foolish therefore no long term viability.

What? How is the mining 'asinine'? The mining is the most beautiful thing to date of all the coins. 5 algorithms can mine. Total coins split evenly between the 5 algorithms. How is this asinine?

Please, elaborate!

How many of you people go out and buy Bitcoins and then use those Bitcoins to make a purchase? I'd be willing to bet none of you do because it's too difficult to make it worthwhile and if you do you just increased the cost of your purchase. Too many people are mining Bitcoins and all altcoins and then need to exchange them for product or sell them for fiat. That and speculation is what's creating the current economy and that won't last forever.

In order for any crypto coin to remain more than a popular generational fad it needs to be more simple to use than just directly using your countries fiat and have a zero exchange fee. Would you rather go to the store and buy a stereo or go to a gold dealer, buy just the right amount of gold bars, pay a fee for the gold purchase, then find a store that takes gold bars and then buy the stereo. How many average joes are going to take the extra steps necessary? I stopped mining because the reward dropped to 25. How many more individuals will stop at the next reward drop? How many more professional mining farms will spring up and take away the little guys ability to mine Bitcoin? It's tough to build a robust economy with that recipe. Between the difficulty of use, the scumbags running the businesses and professional organizations, the massive crime and theft and the growing political hurdles I'm not seeing this as capable of lasting forever. Sorry.

proof of work is inherently wasteful. all proof of whatever systems "solve" the byzantine generals problem. the reason why proof of work systems have the largest portion of the market is because they are easiest to construct, but are not necessarily the best way of coming to consensus. less costly, more scalable systems that use an alternative to pow will eventually eclipse those systems that use it.

also all of these 'coins' constitute a form of equity and as such they are not viable currencies. anything can be used as a currency but what makes for a viable currency is price stability. this is why currencies as we know them have always been debt instruments. until there is a system that issues debt using the equity (coins) of the network as collateral we wont see widespread adoption of cryptocurrencies.

I 100% agree with makebitcoin because that is what i think. This is the future.

That's a bet you will lose quickly: yesterday 50,000 bitcoins were spent.  For me it is much easier to make a purchase and I have decreased the total cost. 

This is probably one of the most fallacious post I've ever read. Yesterday 50,000 bitcoins were transacted, which is not the same as saying 50,000 bitcoins were spent.

The Internet protocol has only been around for 25-30 years, it may seem like it won't be replaced but I think there will be a better alternative eventually.

My thoughts:

Once a crypto-currency contains a mathamatical mechanism that stabalizes the price of its currency then we will start seeing mass adoption and a true alternative to FIAT. This can be achieved by dynamically changing the supply of currency units instead of the value per currency unit. This system would prevent both price inflation and deflation relative to FIAT.
Once this happens, bitcoin will no longer be a viable option as a safe and stable storage of wealth or method of transaction.

Nevermind litecoin and dogecoin, they don't provide much of an improvement over the original protocol.
Check out mastercoin, counterparty or electrum, they propose some interesting ideas layered on top of bitcoin and that's what I'd love to see.

Did you mean ethereum? Ethereum isn't layered on top of Bitcoin. Mastercoin and Counterparty are both interesting additions but still need to prove themselves creating real economic value.

Once a crytpo currency uses market forces to stabalize the purchasing power then we will start seeing mass adoption.

You are essentially suggesting that we need monetary inflation and deflation to stave off price inflation and deflation. That is the wrong route. We need neither type of inflation and deflation. We need to go back to sound money, with the backing for that money coming from crypto-assets that have a stable supply.

Are you suggesting backing money with bitcoin instead of backing money with gold like we used to?

We would be back to square one, where people would be issuing more money than what they have backed by bitcoin.

OR

Are you saying backing bitcoin with crypto-assets?

Backing anything (i.e. crypto-assets) requires us trusting the owner of that asset, which would also take us back to square one.

Digital currencies themselves can be Fiat.  Why does Dogecoin have a larger capitalization than an innovative coin like NxT or layered improvements like Mastercoin / Counterparty?  Why does BTC and LTC maintain their position ~ despite hordes of technically better coins?

It seems to me community is king for currencies.  Bitcoin may have an infamous reputation among the mainstream but it frankly hasn't had a serious challenger to date.

I'm saying create a p2p network like bitcoin that has its own crypto asset like bitcoin but is not distributed through mining and maintains a set or more stable money supply. Embedded in this network is a banking system that creates debt instruments (collateralize by the underlying equity of the network) that can be used as currency. There is a reason why we have historically used debt as currency, because it is stable. You invest/save through equity and you spend through debt.

And to get a community that will be bigger than bitcoin, requires the crypto-currency to have certain properties...The question is what properties would it need to have to reign over bitcoin. Price stabilization is the key property for me.

Nxt has a lower market cap than doge despite it being innovative is its lack of user friendliness, poor distribution and poor marketing compared to Doge. These are properties that a top contender needs to have. I'll also add there is no reason for anyone to use nxt over bitcoin when we don't take into account return on investment.

Yes you are right, value is subjective, but at a certain point you have face the objective reality of scarcity. The usd is just as overvalued as dogecoin because of the community behind it, but just like the usd will inevitably go to zero so will dogecoin.

how can you tell how large the community is?  If you go into altcoins, one of the largest topics in that section is Darkcoins yet no one has subscribed in reddit.

Be careful holding Dogecoin..Over the past few weeks the hashrates have decreased and it seems like people are migrating to other coins.

You are right. People still aren't looking enough at the technical features of coins such as Darkcoin (or others). The dogecoin community is what keeps its price up, even though it offers no real/new features.

A crypto-currency backed by another crypto-currency?  That's like saying backing silver with gold. These things don't need to be backed by anything because they have intrinsic value in themselves. Doing this to force debt does not make any logical sense. Crypto-currencies such as bitcoin are only unstable relative to USD or EUR..etc. Once they are the only currency in town, then their will be no price stabilization issue and people won't be forced to create useless goods and services by destroying the planet in order to keep this debt based economy alive. I prefer a scenario where people are actually able to store their economic power than force to spend/use it due to the way the economy works.

No you've entirely misunderstood, both my statements and the economic reality. I'm saying back crypto-debt with crypto-equity and use that debt as a currency because you can achieve any measure of price stability through debt instruments. What I'm trying to say is create a digital banking system that offers its clients the option of storing value in whatever asset they want. Collateralize the value of the debt with the equity of the network. You do realize that money is debt? You give the bank your collateral. They hold on to it and they give you a claim to your collateral. When banking first started, you gave the banker your gold and got a promissory note from the bank. Now you give the bank your fiat currency and the promissory note comes in the form of a debit card. In the digital banking system you give the bank your collateral and they give you a promissory note (crypto-currency) not for the collateral but for the purchasing power power of a specified asset. Lets say I have a  1 btc ($436) but I do not like the volatility of bitcoin. I put my bitcoin in the bank and get back a crypto-currency form of the usd, so I have 436 crypto-usd. If the price of bitcoin falls it doesnt matter to me because I have claim to $436 worth of bitcoin. I simply end up with more bitcoin than I started off with. If the price of bitcoin rises well then I end up with less bitcoin than I started off with but still maintain the purchasing power of $435 usd.

Money has throughout most of history been debt and that is not a bad thing. But as you have alluded to, debt plays a very perverse role in our society. As I mentioned early I think the proper use for debt is money and not financing production, which should be done through equity. Also I have said nothing about forcing people to do things. It is simply in there best interest to use crypto currencies that have the users desired purchasing power. Crypto currencies will become mainstream when they have all the properties of bitcoin but maintain the price stability of the dollar.

Neo and Bee Bitcoin bank aimed to do something similar to what you mentioned but it was a centralized approach which lead to its demise.

I actually made a reddit post 2 weeks ago about if it was possible to create a decentralized banking system: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/240n26/decentralized_bitcoin_bank_possible/

But what if there is a run on the bank, lets say bitcoin went down to $100 from $500 and everyone wanted to withdraw their bitcoins at the same time, the bank wouldn't have the equity.

Just like the bitcoin network has a protocol for transactions this banking network would have a protocol for issuing the debt. You can set the required collateralization to the desired level for each respective network as easily as you change the block reward on a bitcoin fork. Bitshares is already creating a decentralized bank and exchange with 200% reserves. There is a lot more information at bitshares.org and bitsharestalk.org. 


I don't believe that this system is impervious to bank runs even though it does not use the fraudulent fractional reserve system.  If markets are not efficient and there is a run on the bank then ppl will lose money. But this is true of any banking system as we will soon see in the US when interest rates adjusts and banks default again.

Whatever happens to Bitcoin in 10 years, I will never forget it :) But perhaps if the retailers, local & large companies, etc, will support Bitcoin we might see the value and acceptance shoot up like a rocket.

Just in case I have 20BTC that I will never sell, I will keep them 10 years, and who knows what the value is by that time  ;D

Also this bank doesn't deal in fiat you have to buy the underlying crypto-equity of the bank in order to use its services just in the same way you have to purchase bitcoin to use the network as payment processor. In the end, you wont have to worry about exchanging cryptos for fiat because no one will use fiat.

thats it. thanks.

10 years sounds about right, global adoption takes time

Wow that is really amazing, i had no clue bitshares was developing a decentralized bank that would allow people to deposit bitcoin and remove the risk of volatility. That is truly a game changer once it finishes development.

That's absurd. I seriously doubt you could even find 50,000 Bitcoins to purchase let alone spend. That's one 12th of all the Bitcoins Gox lost and those were amassed over a 4 year period when mining had a 50 coin reward. What you are seeing is total transactions. I'm talking about individuals BUYING Bitcoins to make purchases not MINING them. By the way, you need to take another look at the system of fees to buy Bitcoins and spend them again. It's not what you think it is. Also, I sent $10,000 to a relative in Germany for an investment in his company. I used Amazon Payments for the transfer. I registered my bank account with Amazon, called them to remove the $500 monthly limit on my account and sent the money. Guess what? It was free!

If you are interested in decentralized exchanges, coins pegged to the USD, gold, or other assets, then check our colored coins (the video here is a pretty good summary): http://coloredcoins.org

The major advantage of colored coins is that they exist purely in bitcoin-space--there's no need to buy some foo-coin to create them.  

Colored coins are essentially small amounts of bitcoins that encode IOUs for various assets.  For example, Bitstamp could create BitstampUSD colored coins.  The value of a colored coin is thus the value of the underlying bitcoins + the market value of the IOU.  I could buy BitstampUSD from anyone, send them to Bitstamp, and then have Bitstamp honour the IOU by wiring money to my bank account.  

Colored coins open up exciting opportunities for the bitcoin network.  However, colored coins are not a threat to bitcoins themselves.  The reason they are not a threat is that all colored coins are IOUs; they are only worth something as long as the counterparty can honour them.  In other words, colored coins are not completely trustless.  There is only one asset in bitcoin-space that is not also someone else's liability: bitcoins themselves.  

It sounds like what you're saying is that if bitcoin is only used as a store of value (and not as a medium of exchange), then it is more analogous to gold than to currency.  The total value all mined gold is estimated as $8.3 trillion dollar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve).  Since the total bitcoin supply is presently valued at $5.6 billion, the gold/bitcoin analogy suggests that bitcoin can grow on the order of 100,000% fulfilling store-of-value demand.

NXT also has very little trade volume.  Its almost masterbatory.  Doge is awesome because the people are awesome and develop great projects.  Android wallet, dogecar, magazine, charity work, twitterbot, artists, activists like savethemhood and more in the works. 

If im at a party doge is the only crypto to talk about because its silly and social. 

Bitcoin will always be gold imho, ideal savings.  Litecoin is meh. 

I see bitcoin, litecoin, dogecoin and an inflationary proof of stake coin.

I don't see what that advantage of colored coins is over any of the other decentralized exchanges that offer IOUs such as matercoin, counterparty, nxt, and ripple?

Am I the only one that thinks its absolutely ridiculous that so many ppl in this opensource space are creating different projects to do the same thing. Its an absolute waste of resources. These teams should be collaborating instead of competing.

Interesting...

I don't see how colored coins can be pegged to usd while being trustless, bitshares decentralized bank looks alot better.

Hahah bitshares is without a doubt better. It doesn't use IOU's, it is a 'trustless' system in the same way that bitcoin is a 'trustless' system. Its the only decentralized exchange that doesn't use IOU's and its the only decentralized bank. It also has a better consensus mechanism for the blockchain than bitcoin, foregoing mining cost and paying stakeholders with dividends from transaction fees. I'm not saying that colored coins isn't a a good idea but dont think for a second that colored coins and bitshares are the same.

Bitshares vs. Colored Coins vs. Ethereum vs. Mastercoin etc.

They all serve different functions. Only Bitcoin is universal, all the others serve niche markets. As long as the alt coin derivatives don't stray too far from the flock, they should survive and adapt along with Bitcoin.

How is bitcoin any more universal than bitshares or ethereum? Bitcoin in and of itself is a niche market. These other two projects are trying to take the technology into the mainstream. Bitcoin serves one functions, while these systems serve many. You are completely misinformed.

To the Moon Of course.

By universal I mean acceptance and liquidity.

Neither bitshares nor ethereum have been launched yet so you can't really compare either of those aspects. Also bitcion has little acceptance and low liquidity compared to the many asset types out there. Your assertion is still unfounded. I dont mean to sound like an ass. I've just found that theres to much misinformation in the space given the level of potential innovation. We should be realistic about bitcoins technical and economic limitations and work to correct them, rather than just perpetuate fallacies about how its going to the moon even though there is very little evidence of that.

What is great about colored coins is that they *aren't* an alt-coin.  By working on colored coin development, you are promoting the biggest, most accepted network: bitcoin.  Like you said, let's collaborate instead of competing, as we all win if we make cryptocurrency more useful.

The advantage of colored coins over the foo coins is that you don't need the foo coins!  For example, colored coins can represent IOUs like in Ripple but without the Ripple network or the need to buy XRP. 

The other advantage is that it should be possible to use coinjoin transactions to directly trade colored coins IOUs for bitcoins in a trustless manner.  With colored coins, your only risks are the colored coin's issuer and the bitcoin network itself.  With every other solution to do the same thing, there is added complexity, cost and risk. 

So like you said, "teams should be collaborating instead of competing."  Since the bitcoin network is the largest and most liquid, work applied to bitcoin (e.g., colored coins) will have the biggest return.

I hear that Phlogistoneum is going to be infinitely better than Ethereum. It's a secret. Don't tell anyone. Just saying.

This is another reason that colored coins are superior: they are not disingenuous. 

There is no way to create coins that are pegged to the USD that don't have counter-party risk.  This means that any "coin" that trades "as dollars" is actually an IOU.  Colored coins makes this fact obvious.  The fact that you think there is a way to achieve this in a "trustless" manner without IOUs shows how much disinformation there is in the foo-coin world. 

You can trade IOUs (colored coins) for bitcoins in a trustless and decentralized way, but the IOUs themselves can never be trustless because they are representations of assets and not the assets themselves.  The only trustless way to trade USD is to physically exchange paper bills. 

Strap in and Prepare the shuttle for launch!

Have you researched bitshares? Its not disingenuous at all. It mitigates counterparty risk by collateralizing the banks debt with a market valued asset. The issuer of the coins is the p2p network itself not a single individual. You are not worried about the false promises of another person you are worried about the markets inaccurate valuation of the underlying asset. I'd rather have an IOU that is backed by distributed free market consensus than have an IOU backed by a central issuers promise to pay. You simply do not understand how bitshares works which is why you are lumping it together with projects that do not provide the same service. I once believed the same as you and then I looked into it.

Only coins with actual dev teams will survive .

Right, so the Bitshares' digital representations of real assets are IOUs just like for colored coins.  The value of a colored-coin IOU is:

   Value of colored coin = value of underlying bitcoins + market value of IOU

The market value of the IOU can deviate from its par value.  For example, the market value of USD IOUs issued by a bitcoin exchange would deviate from par value should the market lose trust in the issuer (the exchange).  If MtGox and BitStamp were using colored coins throughout 2013, we'd have seen MtGoxUSD trade at a discount to BitStampUSD through the fall of 2013, before collapsing in February.

  

Im not so confident. I think theres a definite shelf life. Apple will kill it all with imoney and that will be that.

Dogecoin is relatively stable and has been rising in value against USD over the past 3 months whereas Bitcoin has been decreasing in the same timeframe. Compare:

https://i.imgur.com/h6TIOTb.png
http://coinplorer.com/Charts/USD/DOGE

https://i.imgur.com/1QutLvL.png
http://www.coindesk.com/price/

Also Doge is more friendly to newbs (also because the value is low and newbs can own many Dogecoins while most of them can only buy a fraction of a Bitcoin) and the community does things like sponsoring Olympic athletes and a NASCAR racer which gives them lots of mainstream media exposure. Such as this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV8IAJug7cI

They talked about Dogecoin for a minute and a half on a sports program that has nearly 7 million viewers, all of the time showing the car in Dogecoin livery. When did Bitcoin have that kind of exposure on a mainstream sports program?

Dogecoin may well survive the Doge meme for many moons.

While I actually do have a soft spot for Dogecoin, the argument that dogecoins are cheap is spurious.  Right now each doge costs 1.02 bits.  You can get 2257 bits for 1 USD, or 2213 doge for the same amount.  So I could use the same spurious argument to say that people should invest in Bitcoin because you get more bits for your dollar than you with doges.  

https://coinplorer.com/Charts?fromCurrency=DOGE&toCurrency=USD

Who paid for those and why? Mastercard has five lobbyists for Bitcoin (well against actually) which cost a lot more than those sporting events.

Yes but they do not have central point of failure and all the iou's are adequately collateralized... colored coins don't add any value over existing systems. Ripple, nxt and bitshares me (which is the bitshares version of personally issued IOU's - this is different than the bank) will always be faster. For that matter why wouldn't I use mastercoin and counterparty instead of colored coins. Theres just nothing different about your systems in terms of the services they provide. At least bitshares, nxt, ethereum, ripple are doing something different. At least they are not trying to build on top of a network that comes to consensus slowly, is not scalable and is wasteful. I just don't really see the case you are trying to make. If you're not going to be better than your competitors at least be different.

The /r/Dogecoin community on Reddit. Lots of people gave small amounts, they raised 67 million Dogecoin in total, worth $55,000 for the NASCAR car and about $30,000 for the Jamaican bobsled team. In case of the NASCAR car they worked with the /r/NASCAR community for the sponsorship campaign (both subreddits were actually promoted on the side of the car). Many NASCAR fans on Reddit learned what cryptocurrency is for the first time because of the sponsorship. Even if you don't like Dogecoin you should appreciate that.

This is the original NASCAR sponsorship thread:

http://www.reddit.com/r/dogecoin/comments/20mwde/guys_lets_do_it_doge_nascar_style/

All Bitcoin has is the Bitcoin 100 and other various charity works. Certainly nothing that would interest the NASCAR crowd.

Dogecoin also has charities (see: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/dogecoin-community-raising-30000-children-charity-1435131). The NASCAR sponsorship was about getting media exposure for Dogecoin and that worked rather well. Obviously a racing team is not a charity.

Good for you, kiddo! Keep working hard and maybe Mastercard will attack you someday.

So we may see Dogecoin Mastercards one day?

http://www.wired.com/2014/04/xapo/

Hopefully you realize that such a card would be flawed? The government would pretty much get any information that they want from that company.

Right.  You can do all the same things on the bitcoin network directly without buying into some foo-coin.  So foo-coins add little if any value other than a platform for experimentation.      

But I think you're still missing something: colored coins are not some new foo-coin.  They are just small amounts of bitcoins that represent IOUs or other assets.  No one is going to "IPO" colored coins; no one is pumping and dumping colored coins.  There is no way to invest in "colored coins" as an asset.  Anyone can color as many coins as they want and for no cost.  Colored coins are just a way to turn regular bitcoins into digital representations of assets.

You said, "theres just nothing different about [colored coins] in terms of the services they provide."  The fact that you used the word "service" indicates that you don't understand that there is no service--colored coins are just tools that anyone can use.  It would be like saying "there's nothing different about the services that pens and paper provide."  Like colored coins, pens and papers are implements that can be used to create IOUs, share certificates, titles to homes, etc.  Buying into some of the new foo-coins would be like hoarding pens thinking that they will go up in value.

Yes I agree, why do people want to turn Bitcoin into traditional banking? It's like the first silent motion pictures trying to emulate theater too hard. Before some movie makers discovered the true potential of the medium they were dabbling with.

Maybe you could answer a question about DOGE for me Tinus.

I understand that by January 2015 (8 months from now), the dogecoin inflation rate will have dropped to 10,000 DOGE per minute.  Right now the market value of 1 DOGE is approximately equal to 1 bit.  If we assume that dogecoin has the same value relative to bitcoin in January 2015, then the inflation rate per hour would be roughly 1 bit/DOGE x 10,000 DOGE / min x 60 min / hour = 600,000 bits = 0.6 BTC / hour. 

In a competitive market, the cost to mine a coin should be roughly equal to the market value of the coins mined.  This suggests that the cost to 51% attack the DOGE network would be a measly 0.6 BTC / hour.  At today's price for bitcoin, that is only $262 per hour. 

So my question is can the litecoin miners easily mine dogecoin?  If this is the case, what is stopping a malicious pool from paying out litecoin miners slightly more than the litecoin inflation rate for their hash power, and then use that hashpower to 51% attack doge?  In fact, there could be a large profit motive to do so if the attacker could build up a large short position in DOGE prior to switching the hash power from "nice" to "attack mode."

It seems like someone will be motivated to kill dogecoin by next January unless the price and number of dogecoin transactions grows by an enormous amount. 

I firmly believe that a fixed supply of money and slow transaction times will make sure that whatever is present in 10 years, if anything, is mildly inflationary and quick to confirm transactions. If it could somehow be done by changing the Bitcoin code itself, even better.

why should it be inflationary?

what does it mean for a transaction to be confirmed?

I believe it is commonly done so people who don't understand what Bitcoin is an how to sue it can have something to compare it to that they already sort of understand. 
It could also be a mistake by the subconscious because that is the system they have used since birth also, that should also be taken into consideration.

It's an opinion thread but my thoughts, or examples of them, could probably be found in the inflation vs. deflation thread, found here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=11627.0

I tend to side pretty strongly with the inflationary side, but again - opinions...

Yes, it would be more useful as a store of value if its value was universally accepted and intrinsic like gold or silver.

Exactly.  Bitcoin becomes more useful the more valuable it becomes. But the more useful it becomes as a store of value, the more demand there is to hold it.  It's an unstable dynamic system with two equilibrium points: a very low value or a very high one.  

Why can it not be used as both? You can get currency coins that are made out of gold and silver, but bitcoin is better with the technology behind it. You can't easily give or send a little piece of gold to someone if you wanted to for whatever reason.

It can be both.  It's just that "bitcoin as a store of value" is the first app.  If the value continues to rise, it means that it is becoming more accepted as a store of value.  Once it is more accepted as a store of value, people will be more keen to accept it in return for the possessions and for their time.  And then it will become a medium of exchange. 

This is why worrying about merchant acceptance is superfluous.  It's good if it happens, and it gives people something to talk about, but bitcoin still huge progress to make as a store of value.  The properties of bitcoin make it superior to gold in every way but two.  And gold has a market cap over 1000X a large so there is a lot of room to grow. 

I think bitcoin will still be growing strong in ten years time.

There are now Scrypt ASICs (like the Gridseed) and it is expected that ASICs will dominate Scrypt coins as much as they dominate Bitcoin now. There will be a lot of competition with huge hashrates so I guess it will be harder to 51% Dogecoin.

BTW: I only own 2 Dogecoins so I'm not trying to pump the price.  ;D I think they have one of the best cryptocurrency communities around which is very resourceful and takes lots of initiatives and are generally not so profit minded as many people involved in Bitcoin which seems to become more about making a buck than changing the world (even though there are still lots of idealists but less than in the past).

I myself don't know much or ever gave Dogecoins my attention but I did appreciate(not at first) how much the community did to get the coin attention.  Even if it was sort of short lived it was impressive.

Coins will keep coming and going but hard to say which ones will still be around.

in 10 years.... :-\ I don't know,  it s really difficult to foresee I hope it will be bitcoin, otherwise I would never become rich  8)

Current technology will take us only so far; major breakthroughs are required.
Google's webRTC has come a long way. The technique was adopted widely.We should learn it well.

that why they talk about this in a bitcoin forum in a bitcoin section ...  ::)

Funny to read old reactions. Shows how hard it is to look into the future!

Yeah looks like it.

It will be the world only currency very soon

in the next ten years all the sheet coins will be replace and gone for ever.. they will all be replace with the new coins which are coming on board....

1000000000 дoллapoв )) ;D ;)

Maybe after the span of 10 years, I am seeing that cryptocurrencies will be officially to be locally legalized among states and countries around the world for the reason that we are engaged into the world in lined with the rising modernized technology wherein cryptocurrencies can be in lined since it was a type of currency in lined with the world we are currently in to right now. The cryptocurrencies on that time will be much more beneficial in a way that as time passes by, newly made cryptocurrencies will be launched to give more benefits to its users.

for more income you need to start right now because there is an intensive growth of bitcoin

You are right somehow, those altcoins might really replaced by new generation of coins but it does not matter because we can always work on bounty campaigns in order to earn altcoins and maintain the wealth we have by trading or working on promoting ico's platform.

I think at that time after 10 years cryptocurrency will be our international medium of exchange means our international fiat money and at that time also people are crazy doing trading in cryptocurrency. 

I think cryptocurrency would flourish and some would even br used for day-to-day transactions. Definitely, bitcoins will remain king of them all and there will definitely be plenty more alt coins out there in 10 years time. I'm expectant that in 10 years, we already have thousands and thousands of new tokens.

crypto currencies in 10 years might become more popular its because not like fiat crypto has no tax and more easier and convenient to use.Also crypto like bitcoin has a huge value that attracts many people to invest with in order for them to be able to get rich not like in saving in bank that you only earn few amount of interest.

The crypto currency in 10 years I think will grow and will be a lot of new coins and will be more options for us to look for profits in crypto currency.

In ten whole years, wow thats one big leap of a prediction. Okay. I think that in ten years we would have fought for the rights of cryptocurrency some major countries and most of the small countries have welcomed cryptocurrency and some business ventures on their shors have already made bitcoin akd other cryptocurrency coin an integration to their system. Most of the major governments are still waiting for its collapse and would still prefer the cold comfort of the paper money that they can touch

many inexperienced investors are often asked how to translate or buy something for bitcoins and what is it for? So I'll answer this question. Do you earn bitcoins and if you want to buy something, then take the bitcoins into your real money through exchanges and calmly go and shop

I do not think it's just 10 years, it could be more than 10 years will still be even more people who know the currency.  ;)

In 10 years, each of us will be able to pay cryptocurrency to Ilon Mask for a trip to Mars!) Or it will be a journey around our planet on a spaceship))

Of course, we don't know well what will happen to crypto-currencies in 10 years. But I am hoping that it will last. Because cryptocurrency is very useful now. It makes our life easier especially for transactions and the charge is low. And with this cryptocurrency, we can invest and earn more money.

Personally, I also think that it will grow and develop more concepts and newer cryptocurrencies in 10 years. As seen recently, new cryptocurrencies have been growing rapidly and they compete amongst to be better digital currency. However, we still don't know exactly which one will be the best cryptocurrency in 10 years. Many predictions will be there of course. But, we should hope that cryptocurrency will always develop and give benefits to all. Then, I also expect that more and more countries will accept the existence of cryptocurrency in the world.

Crypto currencies are still in the adoption process and many people started to use crypto than before but still it maybe 20% of total population so we still need to get that remaining people to use our bitcoins in our day to day life.

There is only the mythical "Satoshi Nakamoto", which in 2008 for the first time launched the system. But who it is, a person is either a group of people, or a huge corporation - no one knows.

I think that by that time bitcoin will become a full-fledged currency and we will be able to safely use it on a par with dollars and euros anywhere.

Bitcoin is quite slowly accepted by people, but I think that in 10 years bitcoin will be something familiar for us and we will actively use it in our daily lives.

10 years. I hope that in 10 years of cryptocurrency will be used in the same way as normal credit cards..

Curious, but I saw that the question was asked in 2014. It means that even that time people were hesitating about the future of the cryptocurrency. I believe that it will be used for many years, and our children will know about it more than we do.

its been six years since you asked this thread,and crypto came along way reaching this with prices that more than x10 now or much higher,i guess i can say crypto is getting bigger each year,and the next 4 years is mainstream,whole world will enter this community without a doubt,and fuds wont be existing anymore this is my thoughs about this