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Just wanna know any thoughts on this. I think is both at times, but depends on the factors of it

Education is a right only if you or your family can provide it to yourself. So, going to school as a kid when your parents aren't either footing the bill (w/o charity or scholarship) nor paying enough taxes to cover your share is a privilege at the behest of the rest. Public Schools are day prison babysitting camps that teach basic level curriculum, compliance and socialization rather than independent, critical thinking.

So to recap,
"A Right is a moral principle defining and sanctioning man's freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental Right and that is the right to life. All other rights are corollaries of the former."

"Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positive—of his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights."

Ayn Rand

If you give a man a fish he is hungry again in an hour. If you teach him to catch a fish you do him a good turn.  ;D

The both. It's a right to improve available capabilities and a privilege to develop new skills.

education is a right because it benefits humanity the more you have it. less crime if you are more educated.

Govt provided anything is not a right. Rights exist without a govt's involvement.
But if the govt provides an education, everyone should have equal access to it.

a buddy of mine got his GI Bill for my military service and got his Bachelor's Degree in Political Science from the University of Colorado at Denver. he still haven't used his degree. While we debate education as either a right or privilege, we must not neglect the fact that people that have Bachelor's Degrees pushing brooms. What is the use of education past the high school level is the question that I ask. Why do you need a right to a Bachelor's Degree when you will be just as unemployed or underemployed in this economy as everyone else with a Bachelor's Degree?

if you want a decent education you have to pay for it.

you can adopt abrahamic bigot doctrine for free

education was free up until a couple years ago when the internet got cia'd and all the good shit got deleted

It's a necessity. To generalize who gets what education, and to standardize the way in which all people are educated; that is where things get tricky.

Anything "privileged" means that only a select or elite should be allowed in. Should we really be deciding who does and does not receive an education? Sure, knowledge is power... but only dependent on how someone uses that knowledge. Perhaps we should be focused less on what people are learning, and instead teach how to better use the knowledge they receive. But that would involve creative thinking on the parts of those already traditionally educated. And creativity is not taught. Only tools to express that creativity. Which again brings us to the decision of HOW to teach, and who should learn such things.

the education is still shitty even if you pay for it

bunch of fucking lies

take economics for example

you can do a phd in that shit, and it is all based on fundamentals which are complete

science and medicine is the same shit, lobbyists and shills encouraged to release fakescience, doctors peddling poison pills etc

Education should never be considered a privilege. Education is a right that should be promised to every single man and woman in this world

Well that simply isnt true, the unemployment rate for people with degrees is much lower than high school only. Underemployment is certainly an important issue, especially the first couple of years after the recession. But even then you are still better off with a degree for the most part.

Force a man to undergo 12 years of public education and incentivize him squander another half a decade of his life obtaining a BA and he may reach his mid-20s never having learned to fish.

The take home point: regarding education as a right != "teaching a man to fish."

Most people (who choose to) can read faster than a teacher/professor can speak. I recognize that in some circumstances and under certain paths, institutionalized education needs to be continued past the eight grade, high school, and even into post graduate classes.

However, many people do not need it.

While I am not a welder by trade, I learned basic welding in 8th grade. I still weld. I continue to learn about the newest trends in welding by reading and watching videos produced by expert welders.

It costs me nothing other than an internet connection. I can throw a mean tight bead, that any production welding shop would be proud to present to their clients.

Education is really up to the individual

Associates level education is currently an investment that will soon be a right, provided through necessity.

Bachelors level education and beyond is currently and for the foreseeable future will remain an investment. A poor investment will yield poor results, results may vary, bla bla.

Investments are privilege, and state funding is the equivalent of a right. I don't think you will ever see the enshrining of rights to a specific education.

Have to agree here.

Public education is more like a "welfare" to teachers and administrators than it serves the purpose of educating the young.


 

      Educational qualifications are the currency of the job market. I think this is an inefficient means of allocating human resources. Some of the cleverest most adaptable and creative individuals I have ever met have very few qualifications.

   You can't buy a job, but you can buy an education - and that is an inefficient way of going about things.


Regarding rights/privileges - I'm not sure of the difference so I can't answer that question. But I will say that learning is fundamental to human beings - the question should be to what extent is that natural capacity (to learn) fostered/encouraged - and to what degree is it stifled ?

   Read a great book once - "Teach Your Own", by John Holt. He said - "Which is the smarter ? The elephant fending for itself in the jungle, or the elephant that has been taught to jump through hoops in the circus?"

   Educational establishment places too much emphasis on jumping thru hoops IMHO.

Ivan Illich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Illich#Deschooling_Society) is interesting too in regard education.

It's a privilege, because most often it depends on your birthplace. If you're born in South Korea, you'll get excellent education, but you won't get much if your birthplace is in Tanzania.

I sincerely hate the idea of living in a society in which most people are uneducated. However, do not confuse the ability to memorize facts with the ability to know what to do with them. I say that enough education to teach you skills that makes you employable should be a right (if only because I believe that everybody should have the right to opportunity for useful employment -- "opportunity" being the key word) but the ability to get into an Ivy League school is a privilege.

A right is an excuse to steal from others (unless it's property rights, more aptly named "property".)  If your "right" involves forcing people to do anything against their will, you have to make a moral decision:

1. "People have the right to not be stolen from, attacked, or enslaved."
2. "People have the right to steal, attack, and enslave for 'social good', the definition of which is at public discretion."

So, how is a "right" to education theft?  Well, it revolves around either of these two concepts:

A. Teachers should work for free
B. Society should be forced to pay teachers

To have a right to education means people will become educated at any cost; it's like saying you have a right to own a house, the economy doesn't respond to this whatsoever, it doesn't mean anything except for an intent to steal from home-owners or from the public to build everyone a home at the taxpayer's cost.  There is no possible way to have a "right" to a house which doesn't involve forcing individuals of a market to act in a different way with the threat of violence.  We must either mug the teachers or the public to pay for a person's "right" to education, and since mugging teachers severely cuts the amount of teachers we'll have in an economy, we typically opt for the 2nd option, as it's more subtle; people don't notice a few dollars and cents added and taken from their purchases and income, though it amounts of a very big number over time.  This way, we can overpay for really awful schools and allow colleges to overcharge several times for tuition just so we can work at a substandard job.

But never to fear: people who advocate a right to education can solve this problem simply!  All they must do is become teachers and give away classes themselves, thereby ensuring anyone who wants an education can receive one; for some reason, I sincerely doubt anyone who actually thinks this way is willing to adhere to their principles.  Meanwhile, I'll be waiting for the right to a civil society...

http://www.nag.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/valenwhine_12.jpg

...Which is why Youtube instructional videos exist. Do a really good job of it and you don't have to spend all day standing in front of a classroom.

Or not go to college and be a jobless pedarist pillhead imbecile.

If college was the only answer to a job and the advancement of science, business and the arts, we would still be using huge tube populated computing devices, carbon paper for copies, and watching reruns of 'Father Knows Best".

So basically the answer is:

1) Quit college. It's overrated and you can find everything you ever needed to know on Youtube if you can keep from being distracted by the funny animal videos.

2) Start a business in your garage.

Make sense?

As Ron Paul has stated many times in regards to anything government provides, you do not have the right to somebody elses property, when you support government funded programs you are always stealing a portion of somebodies wealth in order to pay for it and it's the equivalent of a thief justifying stealing from somebody and of course the people who support this kind of thing almost always use the same kind of self-convincing logic.

If you want to get public programs up and running it should be done through voluntary funding, not emotional blackmail and extortion, I would never however support mandatory education in my life because it's a fucking joke though, you can't force somebody to learn something when they don't want to learn. As a personal example I have just recently learned how to refine silver and the steps look very easy! It's just a matter of doing it safely since you're dealing with Nitric Acid, free services can be done on a voluntary basis and I think the idea that people think you need to point guns at people to get anything done speaks a lot about how little they trust fellow human beings.

Here's the tutorial I found if anyone is interested, be warned, it is long but it explains everything really well: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread810904/pg1

Actually college is critical to advancing science.

Not really. Many companies seek great minds out of high schools for intern programs related to specific research they are conducting and to introduce them to how things are done in the real world, before their young minds are polluted by the institutional professors, and to guide them toward schools and programs that will foster and not smother their individuality.

So SOME college (and colleges) may be critical to advancing science. Most are not. So, if you receive a BS in chemistry from say, Central Florida State, (not to pick on that institution specifically) Your use of your degree may involve the interaction of potato molecules when immersed in vegetable oil heated to a temperature of 350 degrees. In a continuing lab experiment. Day after day

 I am sure all those engineers involved with the appollo missions dropped out of middle school.

NASA has no space capabilities anymore. While they still have a huge budget, they are dependent on Russia for primary stage lift rockets. Absent those, the largest vehicle they can fly is a paper airplane off the roof of the shuttle assembly building...

Privilege. I don't believe in rights beyond physical integrity and freedom.

I see it as a privilege. Not everyone's lucky but that's just how things are.

Fact: mars rover program was developed, engineered and operated by 8th grade dropouts.

I think its more like a priveledge because rich people can send there kids to the best schools in the world.
Its more like a elite club of kids get the best education possible, in the human mind.
And the lower education is just to prepare you for a shitty job that would never make you rich.
I think they should change the way education is given, now only kids who can obey and stay put for a few hours to learn, can do a little better education.
So you can do a better job with better pay.
Everyone should learn and earn the same in the world.

Fact: Primary rocket engines on the Apollo class rocket that launched the Rover to Mars were obtained from Russia.

Fact: you can build one hell of a car, but without having wheels and tires, it might as well be be a 1972 Chevy pickup up on blocks in someones back yard.

All of the Mars rover programs were developed and are run by the JPL, which is a devision of the California Institute of Technology, a private university.

Just about all of them have PhD's. Many of them from CIT.
Example: http://marsrover.nasa.gov/people/

Bottom line is if you want a country to compete with the rest of the world, you need education as a right. It's one of the very few self-serving rights you give someone.

You're using an exception to prove the rule here. Part of the problem with our education system is tuition. Should tuition to the engineering program of a university cost as much as a Philosophy degree? Should everyone have free access to engineering degrees (because they're self serving) and the liberal arts degrees cost more above that?

We need hardcore education finance reform, IMO that should have come before healthcare (insurance) reform. The future leaders of this country are largely indentured servants to the banking system. I'm pretty conservative fiscally and student loans really disgust me. I don't think education (past high school) is a right. I do think student loan interest shouldn't accrue until after graduation and it should be tied to the 10 year treasure note rate.

it should be a right, but then nobody would give a shit if you were educated because everyone would be.

Then there would have to be some extra special school after that to separate the wheat from the chafe.

Then after everyone gets the right to that shit, then another even more articular level would be introduced.

The end result is that everyone spends their entire lives in school and nobody can afford to buy a sports car at 40.

Socialized education should only be supported so far. In most states, it is through high School Graduation, or age 18. After that, get a job, get a scholarship or get a loan.also unlike a human, a dolphin's brain is structured so that only half sleeps at a time, allowing the alert half to maintain its breathing, and keep it surfacing for air. No additional socially funded education needed.

Face it, some children can not be learned nothing. If you really care, do what a large group of liberal donators do, donate to planned parenthood. While they get a huge amount of government funding, none of it can be used for abortion services. that service is strictly donor based, so please contribute.  So far this year, they have only received enough money to perform 97,000,000 abortions over the next two years.

To a degree. It's just the bar will be raised for society as a whole. But since a greater percentage of the population will be better educated and more productive, society is raised up as a whole. And then we learn more, and we learn how to educate better. Someday kids in grade 1 who are learning addition right now will instead be learning devision, and graduate school engineering will be taught in high school. And the cycle can continue. Imagine what the individual can do with more knowledge. Then imagine that a country will be like if everyone had that additional knowledge.

We already have a lot of over educated unemployed bump sitting at home reading this forum.

Education is inevitable, unless you're in a sensory deprivation chamber.

If you're talking about formal schooling, then no one has the obligation to provide it, although it is your right to seek it.

Yes its a right but you still have to pay for it, thatswhat i dont understand.
And the best schools in the world are also the most expensive.
Look at Harvard it's like the most expensive school in the world.
Only rich parents can pay that or you will have to get a scholarship.

I get free education from the internet.

IMO depends on the age. If you are talking about school than it's a right but as for college and Univesity it's a priveledge

You can get education for free if you can't pay it, including college. But not free access to the best private universities. That is indeed a privilege.
 

Education is a right.

On the issue of the poor having access to free education (actually, for basic education it's the poor and the rich, but that will have to end in time, because of demographic problems) paid by society:

Some already wrote that society has every thing to earn with that. Many poor people are bright people, having them working on construction means that society is not taking advantage of their best elements. A society based on merit can only operate with free education for the poor. An economy not based on merit won't be an efficient economy. Think about medieval economy, where the best were excluded from access to some professions based on their birth.

But this is only the tip of the iceberg, there are other aspects:
1) Moral issues (solidarity with the poor)
2) Justice issues (about equality of opportunities and limiting ending inequalities that can even affect democracy)
3) Income issues: what was the role of society on the income you got? On infrastructure, on all the ideas and instruments society made for you that allowed you to get your income...Why shouldn't society get its share on your income? Paying taxes is extortion or slavery as Nozick said? Think twice.
4) Political issues: and these are the decisive ones. Everybody votes and the majority of voters are poor or median income: they decided they want to have the support of the richer on social issues. You don't agree with the other 3 criteria? They couldn't care less. The majority will send the State to take your house if you don't pay taxes and get caught.