Bitcoin Forum

What do you guys think about this article? http://www.wired.com/2014/04/dark-wallet/...... I know its old news, but what I am getting at is this particular media headline, as well as these comments:

“This is a way of using bitcoin that mocks every attempt to sprinkle it with regulation,” says Cody Wilson, one of Dark Wallet’s two 26-year-old organizers. “It’s a way to say to the government ‘You've set yourself up to regulate bitcoin. Regulate this.’”

Now here is what I am getting at: Isn't this trying to provoke a sleeping giant? Basically saying "ha ha you can't beat us" .... What if the government just says, you know what FK it lets just publicly ban bitcoin. I think that alone will ruin 70-90% most likely more of what the coins worth and it will then go back to being only used in silk road , drugs  & underground stuff, companies will shutdown and investments will disappear.

I Agree with the choice for anonymity don't get me wrong, there should be the choice. But I am guessing the government sees it this way --- in this world of corruption MANY crims will definitely take advantage of this feature lets not try hide the fact, humans are so corrupt that we will cheat the system anyway we can, and if there are tools publicly available and "legal" this will make it much easier.

I am actually surprised and really happy at the same time the government is allowing BTC to grow and show its real potential ignoring the small minority who wish to use it in a corrupt manner, maybe they see potential or maybe they know it will be hard to stop, but I know one thing - it wont be hard for them to crash the market with a few announcements "IF" they want to do this.

I just think we should try not give them any reason too and promote all the good ways to use BTC its too early to start taunting the government regulators. If we atleast establish a MASSIVE following from the outside community and drill ourselves deep into the economy and online "legal" world then I guess we are in more off a position to get away with saying things later. I think its still too early to start taunting regulators even though I agree with CODY , FK them for regulating BTC in a way which makes it hard to use it as a currency. I am hoping they change that ruling soon.

My 2c

I accept that Amir Taaki is a good coder and probably contributed a lot in the beginning of Bitcoin. But his ideologies does not fit with a regulated society where common man wants to live peacefully. His jumping into the station w/o ticket is one example of that. He is a supporter of neo-liberalism in a destructive way. Look at this video itself in the article. He is standing with a gun to promote Dark Wallet !!! WTF man ? Can u imagine Gavin/Wladimir standing with a gun to promote Bitcoin ? U think u can convince your dad or even your office boss about +ves of Bitcoin with a gun ? The money he gained from Bitcoin has actually screwed his brain and at the moment he is just a spoiled brat.

Dark Wallet wont move forward with this type of a person in the leadership. Even if he can get popularity... it would just be a matter of time that Govt will silence him. Winning people does NOT need a gun. He is NOT Satoshi.

I'm all for supporting Unsystem, as I have donated in the past and will continue to do so, but what exactly makes you think they are low on funds? Cody was asked in a recent interview if they needed financial support, and said they didn't at the time; Amir Taaki's group received 20k for hackathon in Toronto; Unsystem raised 50k for their work on Darkwallet; they have 15 BTC sitting in the multisig account and it keeps growing everyday.

I'm not trying to discourage supporting Unsystem, far from it if you look at my post history I'm almost bordering on a fanboy; I just think unsubstantiated claims of their financial state from an outside perspective is unproductive.

yes, they have a destructive way of thinking. on the one side there is NSA and others who steal all secrets and give a shit on peoples life and on the other side there is Amir. two extremes.

If anything, I think their focus would be on raising funds and helping Ross Ulbricht's defense fund given how outspoken both Cody and Amir have been about the matter. (Brave New Books from Austin also threw their hat in the ring.)

With that said, I really wish the Unsystem would address the matter of rewards on Indiegogo, but that delay could be due to their busy schedule leading up to both Dark Wallet and the Dark Market.

It's a bad idea to openly proclaim your altcoin's purpose is money laundering and black market use though it obviously makes for good marketing. Should they one day wind up in court on bogus charges of laundering conspiracy the overzealous fed prosecutors will use all these quotes to drive nails into their coffin like they did Weev. I just hope these guy's aren't stupid enough to launch a black market themselves to bootstrap their coin because they will be under microscope.

I don't see a use for this altcoin, not when you can just use coincontrol with bitcoin to eliminate those change addresses giving away metadata, unless I missed something and it has other anonymity features.

I have to say, this is exactly what I thought when I saw the darkwallet stuff.

Bitcoin seems to be doing EXTREMELY well right now under the circumstances. In my opinion (so far) most governments have actually acted pretty reasonably. Sure they don't really know what to make of it yet and have made some slightly uninformed judgements a few times but overall I think we should be pretty respectful of how things have been handled. Especially when you consider how disruptive this technology is. There are few technologies appearing right now that are literally going to change people's everyday lives like mobile phones and the internet did. Bitcoin is one of the few, if not only, technologies that can a direct impact on how governments, organisations and businesses work.

All that considered, why are people like Amir Taaki sticking a big middle finger up to the governments who have so far been relatively reasonable? Compromise and change IS going to have to happen in bitcoin and it's community if we want it to move from a fridge to a mainstream technology. Few people would disagree that bitcoin should go mainstream but I don't here many people in the community agreeing that some sacrifices are going to need to be made to make that happen. I think people often forget that they are not the average person or even not every person. Most of the people in the world don't give a shit about anonymity or deregulation. All bitcoin needs to be to them is a way of paying for things easier than paypal or a credit card. That's it. This is the thing it is going to make bitcoin big. It is THE payment method of the 21st century because it is simultaneously a transaction method and a form of currency. It is not anonymous and this is not even a feature that most people in the world will care about. There are going to be bitcoin banks, bitcoin loans, bitcoin investments, bitcoin stocks, bitcoin taxes. I think a lot of the community do want this but I think it is a sacrifice that they will need to make if bitcoin is ever to become truly mainstream.

This opinion will likely be unpopular with the community as a whole, I am sure.

Other than that the guys have been doing a sterling job and are certainly responsible for the most exciting progress in the community in a sea of PR friendly software name changes, Chinese fud, State regulations and countless Goxxing headlines!

That's the wrong question. Try this for a thought experiment:

"Government regulators - Taunting both legitimate Bitcoin entrepreneurs and organized professional criminals.. hmmm is it really a good idea?"

NO, it's a fucking horrible idea. Now I'm no criminal, but still...  "You fuck with my money, I fuck with your life." is my attitude toward government officials.

It all comes down to violence in the end, doesn't it? That's capitalism for ya. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GRR_n_yQGA)

LOL that video makes it seem he actually wants BTC to be driven underground,actually I think he does, as he has publicly stated that his an anarchist , or am I wrong?.... I mean there is one thing I don't get about anarchists, they want--- absence of government and absolute freedom of the individual. Which would be AWESOME in a perfect world, but are we in a perfect world, where all humans are all happy , and trustworthy?

How can this be in this type of world?  What If I am a crazy person and I just happen to have 100000s followers as well as guns, and I LOVE POWER... Hmmmmm Hey guys, lets take over this city I want to dominate and in-slave 100 females so they can do sexual acts on my command.... There we have a nutcase running havoc in society , yes then we will have people rising up against this and then we have civil war, this will happen over and over ...

I just dont get it.... I don't agree with the governments in  MANY aspects and they are corrupt as FK... but if they were not there I think the world may actually become worse as hard as that is to say. This world is just FKD. And as bad as they are I guess at least for the time being there is order around which gives you some level of safety when you go to bed at night, well in most countries.

Whats to stop someone , from shooting someone else in the head because they dislike them, well in an anarchists society I guess that allowed , its total freedom, no rules.   :-\    Or is there different levels of anarchy , some like "certain" rules and some don't like any? lol I mean the meaning of anarchy is "a state of disorder" that alone just sounds wrong.

Yes, this is what I don't get, if Bitcoin isn't going to go mainstream, as it is already on the fringes and legal to buy real stuff with.. which is the reason its worth what it is, of course as well as being awesome new invention & innovation, but no matter what it is... I mean,  if it truly dives underground, even as far as being illegal to use in mainstream. I wonder how much our bitcoin will be worth against mainstream $ ? You know the stuff that you use to buy food with as well as make a living.

Um, it is not an alt-coin. It is an alternative Bitcoin client.

oops I had it confused with something else
lol their site "For a security issue, we have abandoned the wordpress" but apparently forgot how to deploy basic TLS.
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=darkwallet.is

Chaos = a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order.

Anarchism = is a political philosophy that advocates stateless societies often defined as self-governed voluntary institutions based on non-hierarchical free associations.

There can be plenty of laws and regulations in an anarchistic society as long as the non-aggression principle is respected. Anarchism isn't proposing a Utopia but just suggesting that we could be happier, healthier and have a higher standard of living by not directly supporting corruption and criminals.

Bitcoin is Anarchism and Agorism in practice. Decentralized, voluntary, and regulated, not by violence and coercion, but by peaceful cooperation.

How much is a govcoin going to be worth when Bitcoin is stripped of all the basic fundamentals and reason for existence.

From a tactical perspective I empathize with those feeling squeamish about poking the large psychopathic bear. Anarchists like Amir and Cody are trying to make people think and stir up some interest and controversy to support alternative implementations and development of Bitcoin like Libbitcoin. Bitcoin has much to gain from a more robust community and diversity of implementations. This will ultimately strengthen bitcoin and insure that it grows in value.

Gavin praised the dark wallet and supports other implementations of Bitcoin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZC-E9LVjzJo

Don't get me wrong, I like THe concept of Dark wallet as well, I don't think anyone said Darkwallet was shit, read some of the commenta.. I personally think there may be better ways to publicize it, that's all.

I thought Anarchism came from Anarchy? As per Dictionary >>>


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 mid 17th century: from Greek anarkhos ‘without a chief’ (see anarchy) + -ism; later influenced by French anarchisme .
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And If you look up Anarchy it does not mean anything good according to the dictionary. That is where I got the "State of Disorder" quote from, look below.


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anarchy
ˈanəki/Submit
noun
1.
a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems.
"he must ensure public order in a country threatened with anarchy"
synonyms:   lawlessness, absence of government, nihilism, mobocracy, revolution, insurrection, riot, rebellion, mutiny, disorder, disorganization, misrule, chaos, tumult, turmoil, mayhem, pandemonium More
antonyms:   government, order
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meaning or no meaning , We know they all want what EVERY human wants , a political free society , free from hierarchy and corruption.. and as I said before because we don't live in a perfect world where people actually WILL live happily together .... I guarantee if there is no law or order somewhere or leadership of somesort... someone and his followers will rise up and try to become big boss, now what if that someone was a pure nutcase who liked to torture people? in the history of humanity, its happened over and over, leaders arise from no where, and people follow... this is even before governments like today... you can go all the way back before Noah's time even it was happening...


Yes Bitcoin is free from hierarchy and centralism but this is one aspect of humanity... the tool we use to trade goods & service with.

FTFY

I hope someday that civilization advances to the point where people finally grow up and don't need gods or government to tell them what to do.

I for one cannot wait for DarkWallet to come out. You never know what ridiculous schemes gubmints might try to come up with in the future to look back on blockchain transactions in some lame attempt to squeeze money out of unpaid taxes on purchases (like how NY or NJ goes after people who ordered cigarettes in the mail). The more privacy the better!

As you can see, "anarchy" is not the same as "anarchism". Similar is some ways, but not the same.

This is pretty much how I feel as well. The purpose of coins should be pressing towards the good uses, rather than the bad. Sure, they can be used for laundering and drugs, but so can cash. It doesn't mean everyone advertises cash as being for illegal purposes. We need to focus on positives of coins to help spread adoption.

"The measure of the state’s success is that the word anarchy frightens people, while the word state does not. We are like those African slaves who believe that their master is their benefactor, or those Russians who still believe that Stalin was their guardian."
-Joseph Sobran

Most fundamentally, anarchism is about the belief that human beings are inherently compassionate creatures, and that we can do better than capitalism.
We DO NOT need armed men, coercion, deception, and violence to organize ourselves and distribute resources in a way that benefits everyone.

Homo Sapiens are not chimps. We are Bonobos (http://www.sexatdawn.com/). We are hyper-sexual primates. We are neuro-biologically wired for empathy, kindness, and trust.

As a species, we are collectively suffering immeasurably as a result of our ignorance about our true nature.

If you want to learn about REAL anarchism, read an anarchist FAQ (http://www.infoshop.org/AnarchistFAQIntro).

No.  It shows immaturity and poor judgment on the part of those who created it.  Along with other comments they've made implying that they're absolutely fine with another 911 happening because of their creation.

Idiots.

-B-

I beg to differ lol many are not.. ;D

btw i think most humans  wish there was no need for war, armed men, corrupt leaders , federal reserve.... etc etc

this is what i was getting at, nothing was wrong with the app. But if people truly want to drive up the value of BTC then I don't think comments such as "implying that they're absolutely fine with another 911 happening because of their creation" is the way to do it.. This is where I see Bitcoins community agenda split in half, some people want it underground meaning it may only be good for guns, drugs, online stuff, gaming etc... as it sure wont buy you tomatoes and potatoes, pay your bills, or a new car... And some want it the otherway around.

Jesus fucking christ, another 911 happening because of dark wallet? Really? You a conservative, BittBurger? Enough with the politics of fear bullshit. 9/11 was fucking EARNED, with blood. Yeah I said it.

Stop demonizing TOOLS, you goddamn luddite. Tools are ALWAYS neutral! Never good, never evil. And money is about power (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui6g23ygov8). It always has been.

Read this book, free your mind from the tyranny of illusion:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Welcome_to_the_Desert_of_the_Real_(book).jpg

Welcome to the Desert of the Real, by Slavoj Zizek.

"There is only one good: knowledge. And one evil: Ignorance."
-Socrates

This is correct. Anarchy refers to decentralized, voluntary peaceful interaction without leaders or rulers as you indicate from the greek root. Rules, regulations and laws can exist but have to be mutually agreed upon. If someone breaks a law in an anarchistic society they can either choose to leave and not participate or agree to rehabilitate and compensate the victim/s.


There will always be psychopaths and sociopaths hurting themselves and the rest of society(2-4% of human population) just like how traditional slavery still exists in parts of west Africa. Does this mean that we should give up and stop trying to improve each others lives or does this mean that there can be no progress made? 150 years ago you would have been laughed at if you proposed such a time honored human tradition as slavery would be largely outlawed and found socially unacceptable throughout most of human society. We shouldn't jump to the conclusion into thinking that there may never be a 2nd emancipation from being born into debt and contracts you never signed up for or could even understand to agree to.

Anarchists aren't proposing utopia but just honesty and consistency in regards to ethics. Most people already live peaceful and anarchistic lives in day to day interactions with friends, family members, clients and business associates.... where duplicity sets in is with the state. Psychologically, we humans permit all sorts of abuse against one another that we would never do because we have been conditioned to think in such a way:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Perhaps we will never see a more anarchistic society within our lifetime but is that an excuse to not try and be more honest and compassionate towards each other now regardless?

Bitcoin is plan B for some. It is a tool that allows you to be a socialist, fascist, communist, statist, or at any moment opt out and choose to fund and support ethical programs and charities instead of funding the aspects you may disagree within part or full.

Some people are planning on filling Dark markets with what are considered legal items as well so their isn't a distinction between choosing to buy potatoes or some funny plants as we recognize and respect your self- ownership.

But then go back even further, to like the egyptian rulership famous for enslaving the jews... and not just then, I am sure many kings had slaves back in those days, babylonians, persians etc... slaves used to wear a Metal Ring in his ear this would brand him as a slave.

But yes i am guessing even then people knew it was wrong ,but its hard to stop someone in power unless everybody stuck together and fought the status quo, which is unlikely and a shame in a way.

Lolll getting way offtopic now..

Who wouldnt love a society based on freedom, fairness,  I agree it would be great, I wish it were like that.

anyway back to the darkmarket....

If there were dark market shops I could go to, or pay bills with, or maybe do some shopping would be awesome but for that to happen its going take time and a certain economical situation.. As for now, I honestly rather it run parallel with the $$ people choose what currency they want to use... fair enough if we need to convert to dollar for some stuff let it be.. I think this is MORE than I or anyone would have imagined bitcoin getting too, and it will then have much more room to evolve and it WILL evolve.. exciting!

There is a fine line between harmless banter and poking a bear. The last thing we need in this community is extremists of any stripe. I like dark wallet because frankly it is no ones business how I choose to allocate my bit coin and it is certainly no ones business how much I have. I wish the developers would spend more time thinking than talking.

This right here is how it should be advertised, and I agree. I'm not using it for illegal purposes (darkcoin or any other for that matter), but I still think anonymity should be an option. As long as I'm doing nothing wrong, there should be no reason to be constantly watched.

To some (many?) that statement alone makes you an extremist.

DarkSend is closed source.

May as well sleep with rattlesnakes.  :D

Middle management government bureaucrats and regulators have just as much, if not more, reason to want a private place to stash their money as everyone else.

Things like Dark Wallet increase Bitcoin adoption by that class of people.

I think I'm right in saying that there are those of us who would consider being called an extremist or a criminal by people who advocate the use of high tech weaponry against unarmed populations a compliment.

Given the state of the modern world, anyone who is not labeled as a domestic extremist should be ashamed of themselves.

I agree.  

My problem is that the statement "The last thing we need in this community is extremists of any stripe" includes many people who believe that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice and that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.  One person's "extremist" is another person's hero. DarkWallet is a great tool for protection privacy.

:-)

Of course DarkSend is not Darkwallet and darkwallet is open source. :-)